The history of Taiwan’s relationship with China

[@穆宇穹]

This video is oversimplified and some kind of misleading in various places. There is a serious problem of the animation in 01:30. The Qing dynasty was established by Manchus people at a small region in Northeast Asia. They started to conquer the land held by the Han Chinese people of Ming dynasty. That is, the animation shall be the pink land spreaded from the small region in Northeast Asia to cover the south in stead of the other way around. Thus, the animation in 01:30 is heavily misleading. It makes people think the Qing is from the south and conquer the north, and this is absolutely false. How can a world class media make this kind of mistake? There is a worth looking wikipedia page called "Transition from Ming to Qing", and there is a map with caption "Central Asia in 1636. The Ming dynasty previously ruled over the Aisin Gioro Clan and Jurchens. The Manchus and Qing dynasty started from northeastern China and spread throughout the rest of China." -edited to add extra infomation To be clear, the story should be like this 1. The Qing dynasty by Manchus were getting stronger at their base in Northeastern China 2. The Ming dynasty had serious problem of their economy and politics 3. Manchus gradually conqeur the land by the Han Chinese Ming dynasty from around 1636AD to 1661AD. 4. During this period, the remained but chaos Ming governmnet recruit a pirate group with leader called 「Zheng Chenggong，鄭成功」 who also called 「Koxinga，國姓爺」. The literal translation of Koxinga is the lord with the surmane of the empire. That is, 「鄭，Zheng」 is his original surname, but The emperor of Ming dynasty had surname 「朱，Zhu」. The emperor gave his surname 「朱，Zhu」 to 「Zheng Chenggong，鄭成功」 as an honour. 5. Taiwan island at that time was controled by Dutch. They had not fully controled the whole island but a small area at southwestern part of Taiwan. Their base is called 「Tainan，臺南」 nowadays that means south Taiwan. 6. Alongside the collapse of Ming dynasty, the Chinese mainland was almost conquered by Manchus Qing dynasty. In 1661, a small troop led by 「Zheng Chenggong / Koxinga」 expeled Dutch to gain the control of Taiwan as a base for the resurrection of Ming dynasty. 7. Zheng Chenggong then died in 1662. His son 「鄭經，Zheng Jing」 failed the mission of the resurrection. Taiwan island was then controled by the Qing dynasty in 1683AD.

[@realneonbluegamer]

you're reading too much into this, the script made a brief mention and it's ultimately not focused on the origins of the Manchus just like the origins of the Ming dynasty but nice extra info

[@ney9781]

Your information is also biased😂， Manchus are definitely Chinese， and they are warlords of Ming dynasty. Moreover，Economist always show ignorant about China😂.

[@ethanpixar]

@@realneonbluegamer the animation do is very misleading and can cause a deep false impression of China's history to those who do not aware, so is then necessary to clarify.

[@tianxi1049]

i think you should not have such high expectation for this channel. And it does not have big mistake.

[@ethanpixar]

@@tianxi1049 Being truthful to history is not a high expectation, boy. If you still think so, I guess you should also lower your expectations to others who come up with this request, since we have this request for only this kind of big mistakes.

[@luihinwai1]

So this is the continuation of the Chinese Civil War

[@Kukura001]

Yes, today's peace is just a ‘tacit ceasefire’ since 1979.

[@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis]

Yes.

[@Kukura001]

Today's peace is only a tacit ceasefire since 1979.

[@kuan-weihuang5214]

but a lot of people already deemed two area distinguished region . only Chinese government is still insisting that Taiwan is a part of them.

[@jasonjean2901]

@@kuan-weihuang5214 A lot of people in Taiwan maybe. The vast majority of the world, including the entire U.N., all view Taiwan as a province of China.

[@LeagueUnionSevens]

0:30 *“Back then, the isle was home (…) to a mostly Malayo-Polynesian population that lived in tribes known for hunting humans for their heads.”* It’s quite frankly disgusting that the only time you mention the indigenous people of Taiwan in this whole video is to disparage them like this. Not only do 原住民 (indigenous people) STILL live in Taiwan, making up around 3% of the population, but their culture is so much broader than just armed conflict - their languages, farming practices, singing, seafaring and textiles influenced much of South East Asia and Pacific and are equally noteworthy. Yes, taking heads as trophies during warfare *was* a thing in Taiwan, but to define indigenous people entirely by it is irresponsible reporting and contributes to hundreds of years of discrimination that has been used to justify the colonisation of their lands by both the Japanese and Chinese. Major European and Asian cultures aren’t defined entirely by the atrocities they committed against one another in warfare, so neither should smaller indigenous cultures be. *A better incorporation of Taiwanese indigenous people into the story would’ve looked like:* 1. Starting the story with them, given they lived on Taiwan before the Dutch. 2. Representing them as people, not savages (again, you wouldn’t reduce any major cultures like this). 3. Acknowledging that they still exist and are politically involved. In fact, indigenous viewpoints on Taiwanese sovereignty are a huge blind-spot for western media (in short, most strongly oppose PRC claims to the island, but also have grievances against the ROC as they continue to fight for greater sovereignty). Big fan of the Economist, but I hope to see some improvement in your future coverage because you’ve dropped the ball on this one.

[@ChrisPeck-niganma]

Except for that last sentence post your comment on the WSJ channel. They have the exact same video.

[@bctvanw]

Taiwan's former president Tsai is a mix of Hakka Chinese and Paiwan aboriginal.

[@SaretGnasoh]

@@bctvanw lol what a BS. She is clearly lying

[@中央山脈-c4i]

Taiwan is Hawaiian and Pacific Islands indigenous motherland

[@bctvanw]

@@SaretGnasoh Her grandmother is Paiwan.

[@Yx273]

I’m not pro CCP but it’s pure stupidity to start describing a history from western POV only, like nothing happened before the first westerner step on the island.

[@shaoyinglu]

Indeed, some parts of this narrative are simply racist lies.

[@xingchen19willwork]

Yes yuan chao already go to taiwan island before but they don't agree

[@LeagueUnionSevens]

Absolutely. Indigenous Taiwanese had already lived in Taiwan for several thousand years before either the Dutch, Spanish, Chinese or Japanese colonised the island.

[@badbad-cat]

​@@LeagueUnionSevens indigenous islanders are all long gone. especially after the Japanese colonialism

[@LeagueUnionSevens]

​@@badbad-cat No they aren't - indigenous Taiwanese still exist and make up around 3% of the country's population. Not only do they still exist, they're politically involved. In fact, indigenous viewpoints on Taiwanese sovereignty are a huge blind-spot for western media (in short, most strongly oppose PRC claims to the island, but also have grievances against the ROC as they continue to fight for greater sovereignty).

[@hko2006]

May Taiwan be peaceful and prosperous in these uncertain timees

[@Kukura001]

Peaceful reunification is the quest of all. Division, provocation and confrontation are destabilising factors.

[@captives6479]

CIA disagrees.

[@goosegg8683]

​@@Kukura001 Taiwan got peaceful fighter jet flying around 😂

[@JamesKo]

One thing is certain: no country supports Taiwan's independence.

[@eatingbatsoupforaliving7872]

​@@JamesKo Quite a handful of states recognize Taiwan as an independent nation, to say that none supports them is a fallacy. But it is understandable that you are arrogant, because the Pirate's Republic of China does not understand logic and is purely based off barbarism.

[@quantum9571]

The correct title "The history of Chinese civil war and the relationship between Taiwan and Mainland China"

[@JamesKo]

People in the West think that "There is only one China in the world" means there is only one country in the world, which is China. How ridiculous.

[@BigbrothersAreWatchingYou]

One country can become two countries through civil war, e.g: Western Roman Empire and Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire.

[@ufsbdubf]

@@BigbrothersAreWatchingYou But the Chinese civil war doesn't end

[@ufsbdubf]

@@BigbrothersAreWatchingYou just cease for many years

[@Baz.007]

​@@BigbrothersAreWatchingYouTHAT'S THE AIM!😂

[@patrioticcommunist]

But many foreigners are still confused with the term “one China” when both sides use the term “China” on passports. 😂

[@ChiaLien_s]

The new design of our passport includes ‘Taiwan’ to avoid confusion. Additionally, our passport is green, while China’s is red.

[@patrioticcommunist]

@@ChiaLien_s yes. But the word “China” is still printed on the personal particular page. We can’t expect all immigration officers know how to differentiate

[@GenZ-Euronymous]

one is roc, one is prc. its not that hard

[@kevinivo-el5eh]

@@ChiaLien_sROC is not China？

[@patrioticcommunist]

@@GenZ-Euronymous if it were not that hard, then Messi would not have been detained for while when he entered mainland China for a friendly match in 2023.

[@igoldenage]

One China Policy means one can either recognize the Republic of China (aka. the Chinese government in Taipei) or recognize the People's Republic of China (aka. the other Chinese government in Beijing). Taiwan is only a causual geographical term -- name of the main island, not a political or legal term.

[@shaynewheeler9249]

😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢

[@cosmoray9750]

7. The Government of the United States of America acknowledges the Chinese position that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China.

[@MarkBalahadiaOfficial]

Another mistake in the video: The native inhabitants of Taiwan are the descendants of the original Austronesian people NOT Malayo-Polynesians. Please do your research properly!

[@Djamonja]

They never said the original inhabitants, they said the inhabitants when the Europeans arrived.

[@Kukura001]

Malayo-Polynesians are a subset of South Islanders. Mainland Chinese also consist of South Islanders and Sino-Tibetans

[@eurko111]

​@@Kukura001 Taiwan is 95% Han Chinese

[@babangteo2853]

Austronesian and Malayo-Polynesian are actually interchangeable terms.

[@ilhamrizkinurhudaya9922]

Malayo-Polynesian is actually Diverged from Native Taiwanese. Malayan is Native Taiwanese who migrate and Settled to the south (Philippines, Malay/Indonesian Archipelago, Champa/Southern Vietnam and all the way to Madagascar) while Polynesian is Native Taiwanese who Migrate and Settled to the East (Pacific Islands, Northern coast of Papua, and New Zealand)

[@dunnbrandon]

Taiwan is officially Republic of China, established earlier like the vid says, and also per current Taiwan president, ROC is older than China (officially: people’s republic of China). If there’s really a reunification or finishing the civil war, should be us Taiwan, reclaiming China back.

[@tkm238-d4r]

Reclaiming the mainland was the policy of Chiang Sr. That was sort of supported by the US and that was why ROC was able to maintain the UN seat. As a result, military conscription back then could sometimes be brutal, because it was for the purpose of retaking the mainland. Partly because of this, the people who later formed the DPP hated the ROC military, denouncing it as a tool of dictatorship. After Y2K, the DPP either supported or implemented reduction of conscription. Conscription was re-lengthened again only in early 2024, with most Taiwanese not really that keen.

[@Monblusm-qz4wm]

The majority of Taiwanese are not interested in reclaiming the mainland. You mention the current ROC President. Here is something else he said. "Our predecessors shed blood and risked their lives to expose the fallacy that 'Taiwan is a base for reclaiming the mainland' and set a national direction that places Taiwan front and centre,""

[@dunnbrandon]

@@Monblusm-qz4wmwhether Taiwanese wants to reclaim China back, or if we actually will do it, is aside from the point. ROC is older than PRC, we are their daddy.

[@kylethomas8655]

Thanks for explaining this

[@Kukura001]

Today's peace is only a tacit ceasefire since 1979.

[@user-lalulei]

To me, a mainland Chinese,unification doesn’t matter,our lives won’t change much,instead I’m happy that our brothers in Taiwan can make their choices.

[@tkm238-d4r]

So long both sides recognize they are part of the same nation, it's not that much of an issue. Trouble is the DPP Greens who want to rewrite history.

[@ThinkWithShishir]

why it's verticle? not everyone is glued to their phone. a lot of us watch youtube in pc/tv.

[@DanH-u3f]

If there is one China, then Taiwan is already independent.

[@greatsky8226]

Only a country can be independent. Since there is no country named Taiwan in the world, so Taiwan can not be independent. "One China" means there is just only one legal Chinese government which has right to rule the whole China including the island Taiwan, that is now The People's Republic China but the both of The People's Republic of China and The Republic of China on the island Taiwan. Learning some basic logics can help you understand the common senses.

[@igoldenage]

One China Policy means one can either recognize the Republic of China (aka. the Chinese government in Taipei) or the People's Republic of China (aka. the other Chinese government in Beijing). Taiwan is only a causual geographical term -- name of the main island, not a political or legal term.

[@StephenYoung1379]

If Taiwan dare to drop the old name of China "Republic of China" then its independent 😂

[@DanH-u3f]

@@StephenYoung1379 You're correct. That's how independent Taiwan is already.

[@DanH-u3f]

Since China and the rest of the world don't recognize the Republic of China, Taiwan is already independent. The One China Policy is a total joke.

[@jarodlee66]

Simply speaking, it's not China and Taiwan, but China mainland and Taiwan, internal affairs.

[@petersaunders7295]

An unacceptable risk? What risk? The video needed to explore this, as it's what today's threat of conflict is about.

[@jonaspete]

PROC is still unable to capitulate ROC in Taiwan so the civil war is still not ended and PROC is unable to claim Taiwan as its province.

[@xuli3961]

That also means taiwan is unable to claim to be independent from China, as you said, it is still in the civil war. The only question left for your people is if you are willing to let the war continue.

[@icreatethischanneltoupload4139]

@@xuli3961 Taiwan already has its own military, economy, sovereignty and their own democratic system separate from China since 1949. Taiwan has already been a de facto independent nation away from China, which means Taiwan has the right to choose to or not to associate themselves with China and have full control what they want to do. And despite the fact that “One China” policy is widely accepted by many nations; the US keep meddling with the policy and face very little to no major condemnation from international community that shows no one really care about your claim over the island and as long as you guys cannot take it back through a full blown invasion as you have been trying to do for decades, Taiwan will and are going to continue operate as independent nation.

[@kingeling]

@@xuli3961 That's just de jure. Taiwan is de facto a sovereign country.

[@Kukura001]

Two regimes can form a new government in the future, which is also unification

[@kingeling]

@@Kukura001 Doubt it when one is much more powerful and influential internally than the other lol

[@kittyflier8338]

Imagine CSA occupied Florida and flourished since then.

[@kaydenletts8017]

So nothing about the White Terror period?

[@kingeling]

Tbf they did mention the dictatorship

[@captives6479]

Can't talk about white terror without talking about green terror.

[@kingeling]

@@captives6479 There is no green terror... just an incompetent and equally corrupt green democracy

[@willl3221]

who cares

[@canto_v12]

The White Terror is ultimately not impactful to Taiwan’s outward political status. It was a domestic issue.

[@joannabusinessaccount7293]

Hey Economist, you are very biased. Did you not know that poll after poll, the Taiwanese people, the overwhelming majority of them, want things to status quo. Only 7% of people want to have Taiwan to be independent country, 3% want to be the unified with China, and 90% want to have things stay the way it is? The woman you show is Lisa Su, CEO of AMD, an American company, not a Taiwanese company. Or, the official language of Taiwan is Mandarin Chinese, and the full name of Taiwan is in fact Republic China. How about the fact that the US has been selling outdated second military equipment to Taiwan to make more, and to thwart competitiveness of China. Or that none of the concerns about democracy is of interest to the US or the west but the real interest is 1) not letting Taiwan become part of China so the U.S. remains more like to stay #1 for much longer to control the US dollars as the world’s currency. 2) to control TSMC. Shame on you. The reporter sounds young, and totally brainwashed.

[@orange25i]

Do you have anything against young people? What is the problem with "the reporter" being young? Also: you do realize, that the voice is only a speaker and that media is not a one person enterprise but always teamwork? Hm,, on second thought, you obviously do not know that, but are just a clueless person. Better to ignore such ignorance... 😊

[@joannabusinessaccount7293]

@@orange25i Yes, I do have an issue with non Chinese who think they can copy and paste info they have learned from secondary sources, and typically young people think they know far more than they do. This matter is of the utmost global geopolitical importance and there is not really G20 but rather than G2 in essence. Sounds to me you need a few decades more living to do, life lessons learned, before you comment. By the way, you sound not only young, but inexperienced. Fix the errors in the piece and then we can talk. Economist, unsubscribed both print and YT.

[@MefizTofelFolk]

Texas, California, etc. are Mexican but you never gonna talk about

[@jaekae-u3k]

Um you are lost. xD Stop fighting.

[@GoodCitizen-gm1tl]

and New Mexico too

[@KeuNoi-g6f]

Hawai is the motherland of all white Americans.

[@taiwan6691]

Taiwan no.1

[@yuming2512]

Taiwan is never an issue, the term “issue of Taiwan” is a communist language.

[@zenden9]

Who is the communist when UN and all permanent member of UN recognized PRC as sole of whole China. You mean UK, France, Russia and USA as communist too? 😂

[@thenobleman4557]

If Taiwan is not divided then it wouldn’t be an issue

[@labulabalala]

so why not just leave the issue to them and let them hadle it, I just don't understand why even usa is involved

[@lvjinbin28]

but you will listen to communist language when CCP won all wars.

[@SpyFromMarsZeus]

Then can you explain the reason of why PRC took the place of ROC in the UN? If there are two countries, why should one take the place of another?

[@HattoriHiosu]

One of the best story telling about R.O.C. Republic of China at Taiwan👍🏻 With a timeline about how foreign powers governed the island in rotation, the history from indigenous to modern was summarized within 4.5 min👍🏻

[@35Daniel]

The place that is now called Taiwan was originally an indigenous owned and stewarded land. Then it was colonised by both the West and East, wave after wave... It is now something quite unique in the region...

[@miraculous1222]

The PRC's laws have never been imposed on Taiwan, not even for a single day. China's threats are directed not only at Taiwan, but also at neighboring countries and the entire world.

[@theBeat2]

Threatening the whole world? That's a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think so? Apart with a nuclear war (and China hasn't done that), no country on this planet can threaten the whole world, not even the USA who have arguably by far the largest military on the planet.

[@tkm238-d4r]

Almost all of the world, including the USA, are quite happy to recognize China as PRC and that Taiwan is part of China.🤣🤣

[@xiongferguson4709]

So basically they're still in the state of civil war

[@mhz90718]

Um...you never mentioned the term "Republic of China" even once.

[@stevenking7479]

The Economist should should spend more time reading the consitution of ROC. The title is seriously misleading.

[@dawuid1491]

Inteesting that presentation of the history of Taiwan starts with yet another European "discovery" of it.

[@shakiMiki]

Another European 'discovery' when people who have migrated from elsewhere are already there.

[@babangteo2853]

Learn Mudan incident between Ryukyuans and Malayo-Polynesians there. That's how silly were Qing Dynasty and Yamato Japanese both.

[@typicalKAMBlover21]

People should stop thinking in autocracy vs democracy’s frame work and just realize that it’s two different dynasties in China. China as a civilization has had many situations like this one. Without exception prosperity in China comes down to unification instead of separation.

[@xuli3961]

Apart from last 15 seconds most part of the video is accurate about the history. The mistake is that Taiwan's prosperity is not the result of democracy，it happened mostly under KMT’ dictatorship. The economy achievements relied on being middleman between mainland China and US during cold war. After PRC's reform and opening up，Taiwan continued to profit from both ends until recent days. Now for Taiwan they had to get practical to pick a side, the old route will see its end very soon. Investors now talking about TSMC for their semiconductors advantage, however the advantage is what both PRC and US want, and if the two superpower continues to invest on their own chip manufacturing ability that advantage would soon be gone. For then Taiwan would be in very risky situation as they are too near to PRC and too far to US.

[@kingeling]

This.

[@Kukura001]

Park Chung-hee, Lee Kuan Yew, Deng Xiaoping, Chiang Ching-kuo, Economic Development Needs a Sage King

[@shakiMiki]

See also South Korea....

[@fernandoz2023]

2:52, You made a mistake, the Economist. When WWII ended, Japan only "renounced all right, title and claim to Formosa (Taiwan)" but did NOT transfer Taiwan's sovereignty to any other country or party, as clearly shown in the Treaty of San Francisco. So it's wrong to say after WWII Taiwan was ceded to China. That DID NOT happen. Japan did not sign any treaty with anyone to cede Taiwan to China.

[@julioduan7130]

You are changing history, just like the pro-independence forces on Taiwan Island. Japan returned all the occupied territories to their original owner. Since Qing Dynasty didn’t exist anymore, Taiwan was returned to then Chinese government, Republic of China.

[@Roc_kLobster]

Your claim is no more valid than the lies spouted by the CCP of "reunification". CCP never controlled Taiwan, so reunification is not possible. And Taiwan was never sovereign to begin with. It is simply a Japanese occupied territory of Qing dynasty and Qing emperor had transferred all Qing territory, occupied or not, to Republic of China in his last edict. Taiwan was never sovereign. The Taiwan independence movement, just like the CCP, is founded on incorrect assumptions.

[@fernandoz2023]

@@Roc_kLobster I never said Taiwan was a sovereign country. I said Japan only gave up its control over Taiwan in the peace treaty, but no treaty was signed that said Taiwan was given over to the ROC or any other country, unlike Hong Kong. When Hong Kong was given back to China, there was a document, called the Sino-British Joint Declaration, and it was signed by both the UK and the PRC. No such document exists between Japan and anyone else. So it's wrong to say Taiwan was ceded to China after WWII.

[@fernandoz2023]

@@julioduan7130 Really? What's the treaty that documented the transfer of Taiwan's sovereignty from Japan to the ROC?

[@Roc_kLobster]

@@fernandoz2023 Wow! How quickly you Taiwan-independence people change your speech! Your original post said "Taiwan's sovereignty". But now you claim "I never said Taiwan was a sovereign country". I now see how this dyslexic logic works. No wonder even William Lai is abandoning the Taiwan independence movement now that he is president of Republic of China.

[@danzwku]

Important to know that the Qing never completed their colonialism in Taiwan, they only administrated a fraction of Taiwan. It was the Japanese that fully seized all of Taiwan.

[@alexd5128]

Totally agreed! In fact, Qing didn't even want to keep Taiwan initially. They eventually did to prevent another rebellion using Taiwan as a base. Since cultivating Taiwan was never their objective, THEY DID NOTHING for Taiwan's development!

[@Kukura001]

Pre-modern states could not control all territories. Did Sweden control all the tundra, Burma all the jungle, Saudi Arabia all the desert?

[@danzwku]

What a dumb comment. So? What's your point? That doesn't give the right for the PRC to invade/coerce/annex a territory they've NEVER had before, in any century, decade, year, month, week, day, hour, minute, or second in history, ESPECIALLY over a people who do not consent. The reality is that today, those countries have. Whereas the Qing never did. Nor the PRC.

[@mooreshe130]

who gived taiwan to Japan?

[@vietnguyen4312]

@@mooreshe130 There are no internationally recognized treaties, policies, agreements or UN resolutions that declare that Taiwan is part of China.

[@gereon18don13]

The strange tone in " Chinese culture compatible with liberal democracy" is disgusting. As a mainlander, I never want a chaotic Taiwan-style democracy, even in my vision of a more democratic China.

[@kaneki-cz6qm]

well, you never tasted what true freedom is.

[@gereon18don13]

@@kaneki-cz6qm maybe you are right, but with a "truly free" government China would never have achieved what we've got now, so I guess I don't regret it that much

[@lvjinbin28]

@@kaneki-cz6qm CCP has fought against USA and Soviet, did Taiwan say NO to USA?

[@yanxu1815]

Oh, so they ARE Chinese, I thought the west call them Taiwanese

[@zuiwoshachang]

@@kaneki-cz6qm Not that I'm against democracy, but have you seen the videos of Taiwan's parliament? You should - it's quite heavily dependent on the representatives' punching skills, which I presume is the "chaotic Taiwan-style democracy" mentioned by the OP.

[@InvisibleHotdog]

Taiwan #1 🇹🇼

[@PravdaSeed.96]

Magnificent 🐼 🔹 China is the Giant Panda🐼. 🔹Taiwan it's Baby Panda 🐼. 🔹We all know Perfectly how Mother protect It's baby ✨ 🐼. 🌍🐉 🇨🇳 🐉🌎

[@kuan-weihuang5214]

a lot of people already deemed two area distinguished region . only Chinese government is still insisting that Taiwan is a part of them.

[@shakiMiki]

Chinese nationalists who fled & took over Taiwan want to reunite China & Taiwan too. This is literally the dividing line in a c ountry you are commenting about whilst not knowing or caring.

[@tkm238-d4r]

Correct, as you say 2 REGIONS. 2 regions under 1 China. 😊😊

[@Bk6346]

The KMT is against Taiwan independence. The ROC during the Chiang Kai Shek era claimed to be the legitimate government of mainland China.

[@yukikoebata8524]

The counterpart terminology of 'Taiwan' or 'Taiwan province' is 'mainland'. The Economist should not use 'Taiwan', which replaces 'Republic of China', as a national name.

[@Locker3344]

Not quite an accurate description of civil war. Kuomintang represents the central government of China in the United Nations before. The Economists lowered the importance of Kuomintang. Magic!

[@awonoto]

The Dutch were in Indonesia for longer than the Qing was in Taiwan. Noone’s arguing for the Dutch to recolonize Indonesia nowadays.

[@fahuashesun3707]

Are people of Indonesia mostly descendants of Dutch immigrants? Is Indonesia official name republic of Netherlands?

[@StockyDT]

​@@fahuashesun3707should ethnic heritage and the name of a country alone dictate the fate or status of a population? If this was the case, the world map would look quite different.

[@alexd5128]

Excuse me! Where in the video is arguing for the Dutch to recolonize Taiwan? Rather, this video shows China is just ONE OF THE SEVERAL nations that have ruled Taiwan in the past. Mainland Chinese are obsessed with the heritage and history thesis, which is arcane and outdated. If the formation of a modern nation is based on heritage or history, many independent countries today wouldn't even exist! By the Chinese mentality, Singapore shouldn't even exist since most Singaporeans are of Chinese descent, and the U.S., Canada, Australia, and New Zealand should merge into one country since they share the same heritage and speak the same language!

[@deanzaZZR]

@@alexd5128 The Dutch never ruled Taiwan. The Dutch imperialists had a few trading ports and some surrounding fields for the cultivation of crops. Control was in the single digits as a percentage of the island as a whole.

[@fahuashesun3707]

@@StockyDT LOL. I’m just pointing out the OP’s point makes no sense. Are you agreeing with OP that the world map should be based on the length of occupation? There are territorial disputes nowadays in the world and mostly have something to do with ethnicity. China disputes with Taiwan is not the only case. Actually China is the strongest case. Official name of taiwan is Republic of China which was the government of both mainland China and Taiwan island in 1949. Current situation is the result of unresolved domestic war. You can’t deny it.

[@xcpuu1418]

The title is wrong.

[@neken808]

Its like if the American Civil War ended in a ceasefire, and you have Florida left to be reunited.

[@yukikoebata8524]

Even till today, the formal national name of 'Taiwan' is not 'Taiwan'. The formal national name is 'Republic of China'. According to the constitution, 'TAIWAN province' is a province of ROC. By the way, Kinmen and Matsu, the islands occupied by government of ROC, belong to 'Fukien province’（福建省）. In conclusion, the civil war of China result in the reality that Taiwan province and 1% of Fukien province (Kinmen and Matsu) are occupied by ROC government. The civil war paused several decades, but it not ceases at all.

[@ThorNado24]

Japan did not cede the territory of Taiwan to RoC. So, the sovereignty belongs to the Taiwanese people. So, technically RoC is the occupying government of Taiwan. RoC has still the legitimate claim of China's territory based on legal inheritance from the Qing country.

[@yukikoebata8524]

@ 1. When Japan surrendered, it returned regions that taken from the Qing dynasty, such as Taiwan province and Northeast China, to China. 2. The ‘Qing dynasty’ was one of dynasties in Chinese history; the term ‘Qing country’ is incorrect

[@yukikoebata8524]

@ 3. The people of Taiwan province speak Chinese, and the majority whose ancestors migrated from Fujian Province speak South-Min as their dialect. They are important branch of Chinese people. All Chinese-speaking people around the world, and their descendants, have the duty to contribute to the rejuvenation of China and to fight against Western attempts to divide the Chinese nation.

[@ThorNado24]

@yukikoebata8524 Bottom line. Japan did not cede the territory of Taiwan to any country or government meaning Taiwan belongs to Taiwanese people. Taiwan is NOT part of PRC China but an indenpendent country since 1952. RoC is the legitimate government of China from Qing country. RoC was formerly the occupying government with the permission of Japan and USA.

[@ThorNado24]

@@yukikoebata8524 It's illegal for PRC to include it as a province when Taiwanese people don't want PRC to interfere their lives.

[@lichaozhu5842]

at first I thought 'kuomintang' means some people, but finally I realize it's 国民党。。funny..

[@zetsuboukami]

“Recognize the PRC government as the sole legal government of China, and there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China” The United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2758 (25 October 1971).

[@KeuNoi-g6f]

What about Hawai?

[@pratulvenkatesh]

This is a one-sided perspective

[@skc8712]

ROC should just take back the mainland. All problems solved😋

[@jackychen5578]

ROC messed up Taiwan, how can you expect it to manage a country with 1.4 billion people? Taiwan only has 23 million people

[@SANMMA]

That won't make anything better. It just drives the situation from one side to the other, and nothing will change. Actually, there has never been real communism built on earth, and unfortunately, neither has democracy. It's all a political game: I take power, you seize it back a couple of years later-again and again, nothing ever changes. The damage caused by war is always paid for by innocent people.Après le monde, le gris ; après le gris, le monde de nouveau.

[@thenobleman4557]

Haha try it

[@tkm238-d4r]

It actually tried to at least till 1971. During the 1950s & 1960s, the ROC-on-TW flew reconnaissance flights over the mainland. 😊😊

[@吴郎朗-z1e]

180 countries including all of the G7 recognize the One China policy. Only 12 tiny countries do not recognize it.

[@龍-j7r6l]

Do they really believe it or just pressured to go along with it? Also...你怎么翻墙？快回墙内去 这里“不安全”

[@babangteo2853]

That's not the case. One China Policy is actually your domestic affairs but the safety of Taiwanese are international affairs. 没有分？

[@ricktmusicus4852]

Indigeneous Taiwanese: 😶

[@winthrop1177]

Recapture ? Sounds like they conjured it from someone else

[@ahvidaneidavirgilluminous8754]

Revisionist, it was recorded that governed by southern song dynasty and later yuan dynasty…

[@bobCat-qd8jr]

One of the first "western" video I see that did not omit the truth that Taiwan was return or ceded to China by the Japanese after WWII. Whenever you have a land dispute the first thing people ask themselves is who does the land belong to in the first place. The answer is in this video which is true. 2:49 "...during the second world war. After Japan's defeat in 1945 Taiwan was ceded to China [by Japan] then ruled by the Kuomintang". Accurate and precise. Taiwan legally belong to China! And today People need to keep that in mine when they are talking about the Taiwan issue. And of course today the legal government of China is the PRC at least according to the UN and the countries of the world the represent 99% of the people of the world.

[@inevertouchgrass-r4k]

I wonder why the CCP and the KMT went to war and why the KMT lost the war and support and fled to Taiwan.

[@Aleph-alpha]

They both wanted to be in charge. KMT was terrible at that time so it’s not surprising that the CCP won.

[@kianono3209]

The deep corruption of KMT made it defeated by communists.

[@Beband9]

They were delegated to fight a daunting battle yet CCP was not

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

@@Beband9 ccp best govt though

[@yusi2231]

Because the KMT’s army was totally defeated by that of CCP , and then they fled to Taiwan

[@shuili666]

Taiwanese don’t recognize themselves as Chinese, despite that’s their ethnicity, also reaffirmed in their constitution and passport. A government in exile now wants independence under Western protection. For the sake of world peace, Taiwanese should not be allowed to use Western political religion as an excuse to split Chinese territory. The island must reunite with the mainland without Western interference, just like every other losing party in a civil war would end in human history. Otherwise, without political settlement, the unfinished Chinese civil war would spill over to a wider conflict.

[@AlternityGM]

Taiwan has never been part of the PRC and CCP has never ruled Taiwan. That’s undisputed fact. Since 1949 Taiwan has been de facto independent. It’s up to Taiwanese people to determine their own political future. I hope US helps Taiwan defend itself from PRC imperialism. A war with Taiwan may ultimately result in the fall of the CCP dictatorship.

[@joej3225]

Is this what Westerners dream of everyday? Lol

[@tenchichrono]

Civil war never ended. Mainland and TW are one (recognized in both PRC constitution and ROC constitution. UN recognizes this. Even the US gov acknowledges this. LOL

[@kingeling]

Part of China is their argument, no one ever said Taiwan was a part of the PRC

[@lagrangewei]

the issue is Taiwan claim it is China in the UN to deny PRC entry by claiming there is only "one china". the concept of "one china, in which taiwan is china" is a ROC creation. this is why no major country today recognise Taiwan independence. not even US. the world already recognise Beijing rule over Taiwan.

[@alexd5128]

@@kingeling Totally agreed! Japan renounced sovereignty over Taiwan UNILATERALLY in the SF Peace Treaty without transferring it to China. UN Resolution 2758 expelled Chiang, kai-shek’s representatives but NOT Taiwan. Taiwan is a democracy, and Chiang, a dead man, doesn’t own it! In fact, the Netherlands, Australia, and the U.S. have disputed the PRC’s interpretation of the 2758 resolution in 2024. Lastly, the U.S. has only ACKNOWLEDGED, ie. we hear you, the PRC’s position on Taiwan but NEVER agreed to it.

[@aolekoba6675]

Right there 3.00 It was seeded to China And The people who lost fled to Taiwan. Its not rocket science to conclude that Chinas claims have merit. I mean even the British Falkland's historically belonged to Argentina but are recognised as British cuz they took them illegally i might add very long ago and even fought a war over them not long after

[@Sayid_Itatsuyoshi]

if u ever visited Taiwan or simply be there during their elections in the past 8 yrs, u'd realize how awfully wrong what u were saying at 4:00 is. Taiwan might have a flawed democracy but its conservatism and madness in politics and even the level of autocracy and nationlism is no short of the mainland. Do not forget they both have a long past of being ruled by Leninist autocratic parties. The mainland is largely equally developed in terms of economy with even better/up to date infrastructure. I don't see how Taiwan is anything better.

[@tkm238-d4r]

The DPP Greens' main purpose has always been about hate. Hating the Chiangs, hating non-Minnan mainlanders and accusing anyone who disagrees with them as selling out Taiwan. They like to imagine they have a special relationship with Japan but the Japanese do not think they have a special relationship with Taiwan.

[@bgg2249]

Hope Taiwan not gonna be Ukraine 2.0

[@无敌西卡]

不会，真打起来一周就被干掉了。

[@canto_v12]

They’re not, because Taiwan is far weaker than Ukraine and China is far stronger than Russia.

[@canto_v12]

@@bgg2249 it won’t. Taiwan is much weaker than Ukraine, and China is much stronger than Russia.

[@canto_v12]

@@bgg2249 it won’t. Taiwan is much weaker than Ukraine and China is much stronger than Russia.

[@nobody-d2m]

just tell me what's the offical name of taiwan

[@你所謂的墮落]

Republic of China

[@greatsky8226]

The Republic of China whose current legal constitution claims the whole China as its territory and all its citizens are Chinese.

[@zhuoyaohe7235]

@@你所謂的墮落 Hahahaha, hillarious, ......., That's also China

[@ftu2021]

Their national airline is called China Airlines 😂 why isn’t it called Taiwan Airline? Even their car plates says that it’s Taiwan province

[@canto_v12]

@@ftu2021the regional name on their vehicle plates disappeared in the early 2000s. Was it an identity politics stunt, I’m not sure.

[@dominicgamboa2554]

Why is this in vertical?

[@FebruaryHas30Days]

It's always the supervillain's fault

[@aspiromy]

😂 trust western media stirring like own business keep it up

[@kongthai..]

It's just two political party from the same whampoa military school. It's just the 4Z and ex IJA for score settlement. The target now is the MAGNIFICENT SEVEN. Simple as that. RoC just ignore all 3 faction. 😂❤

[@kxa1094]

The reason why some people are willing to recognize that Taiwan is independent is the same reason why they are willing to recognize that the Israel‘s occupation: the United States supports it.

[@kxa1094]

And please stop saying “the United States supports democracy”, which is so f*king ridiculous. Taiwan did not have a democratically elected president until 1996, and for half a century before that, Taiwan was under the dictatorship of Chiang's father and son, while the United States' support for Taiwan has never changed.

[@ChuckNorrizzed]

No they don’t, 180 countries including all of the G7 recognize the One China policy. Only 12 tiny countries do not recognize it.

[@KeuNoi-g6f]

The same people would never consider Hawai a separate country.

[@lvjinbin28]

the same people were against Crimea independence.

[@Bk6346]

164 out of 193 UN countries recognize Israel and they don’t consider it an occupation. Huge numbers of Jews returned to the Middle East after the fall of Ottoman Empire and they have a right to be there.

[@d3r3kyasmar]

Taiwan is a country

[@zhuoyaohe7235]

Interesting, it would be appreciated if you could let me know since when did Taiwan become independent.

[@canto_v12]

Funny how they can’t rename their own constitution to say so.

[@KeuNoi-g6f]

Hawai too.

[@tkm238-d4r]

Taiwan was indeed COUNTRY when it was inhabited only by aboriginals. No known history of aboriginals building significantly big cities or having highly organized governance before the arrival of other persons.

[@canto_v12]

@ sure. But tribal societies have never unified against a more organised civil government. Taiwan is not unique there. Same with First Nations Australians, American and Canadian natives, etc

[@doogiechen2726]

Zheng Chonggon's( 鄭成功) mother was Japanese, and his father was a pirate. The Qing Dynasty was foreigners Manchurian ( North Asia ) colonised China . Mandarin was one of 4 Manchurian languages.

[@babangteo2853]

啊有話

[@tkm238-d4r]

Koxinga considered himself Chinese and wanted to restore the Ming Dynasty.

[@JA-pn4ji]

The important treaties (Cairo, Potsdam, and Japanese Surrender) that transferred sovereignty to China are not mentioned. Instead, the historical bifurcation between communists and nationalists is highlighted to give greater legitimacy to one narrative above another. The key question is whether the treaty successor state to the pre-1949 mainland-based ROC is the PRC or the Taiwan-based ROC? The rest of the historical detour is irrelevant. Did the WW2 powers acquiesce to the transfer of Taiwan's territory to China? Is that successorship legitimate and recognised today?

[@brandenwest5471]

easy, ROC.

[@JA-pn4ji]

@@brandenwest5471 Your opinion, the rest of the world including the UN and US, say the successor state to any previous sovereign in China is the PRC.

[@faunm8251]

Why would you assume democracy is better than dictatorship for the people?

[@faunm8251]

Even the Roman Empire reached its peak in a period of dictatorship rather than democracy. The modern democratic system is only a few hundred years old, but Chinese political philosophy has lasted for thousands of years, which is not even about democracy or dictatorship, capitalism or communism. Chinese political philosophy is not just about dictatorship and has a more complex system to limit the government power. Why must we assume that democracy is the only direction in which civilization evolves?

[@panda-p3f]

@@faunm8251 Because democracy in small countries is beneficial to big countries, democracy means internal divisions in countries, which makes it easier for big countries to control small countries. It is a game of strong countries controlling weak countries. When their products are competitive, they call on all countries to have a free economy, and when their products are backward, they want trade protectionism. The only goal is for a country to be rich and strong, and the stronger it is, the freer it is.

[@jogennotsuki]

Why would you assume it isn't?

[@panda-p3f]

@@faunm8251 When you join a company, you want to vote for a CEO, which is democratic. But voting is not the purpose. The role of the CEO is to lead the company to develop well, which has nothing to do with voting, but with the CEO's ability. As long as the country adopts a set of systems to put talents who can govern the country in the right positions, it has nothing to do with voting. If democratic elections (ballot politics) cannot bring national prosperity, the logic of their democratic system will collapse.

[@panda-p3f]

If you want to go fast, go alone; if you want to go far, go with others. When a country lags behind, it needs to catch up, needs to go fast, and needs to unite as one.

[@alexd5128]

While all statements made in the video are facts, it is somehow outdated. Worldwide, most people don't know much about Taiwan, and they may draw a conclusion after watching this video that the struggle between China and Taiwan is between the Communists on the mainland and the Nationalists on Taiwan. THIS IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE ANYMORE. Ever since Taiwan became a democracy in '96, the Nationalists SELDOM won the presidential elections. In fact, they lost the last 3 in a row! Since Japan had a profound influence during its 51-year rule of Taiwan, Chinese descent who already resided in Taiwan before WWII see themselves as different people from the Nationalist Chinese who came to take over after WWII. Since this division is deep, and the Nationalists don't expect they will ever win the presidential office again, they have become Chinese Communist's best buddies in Taiwan! The Nationalist's attitude is that if they can't rule Taiwan, they rather ruin it so that the Taiwanese (families who lived through the Japanese rule. The Nationalists are NOT considered Taiwanese in Taiwan!) can't rule Taiwan either! Case in point, senior Nationalist officials frequently visit China to corroborate how to destabilize Taiwan to lower the obstacle for a Communist takeover! In short, the NEW struggle is the Communists plus the Nationalists against families who have been in Taiwan for centuries, that no longer consider themselves Chinese.

[@ruikunge]

30 years ago, Taiwanese people all believed they were rightful Chinese. So what has caused today's Taiwanese people to no longer identify as Chinese? Isn't it the result of over 30 years of continuous smearing, spreading rumors, distorting history, and propaganda brainwashing? If we let Taiwanese people relearn with a correct understanding of history, in another 10 years they would also believe they are Chinese.

[@ftu2021]

Really now? What does the ROC constitution say about it? Even Japan’s immigration papers says that Taiwan is a province of China

[@bobcharles7716]

To my fellow Americans if you still want to Weigh in on the Taiwan issue. The most import part of this video is in 2:49 "...during the second world war. After Japan's defeat in 1945 Taiwan was ceded to China [by Japan] then ruled by the Kuomintang". Accurate and precise. Taiwan legally belong to China! And today the legal government of China is the PRC at least according to the our government, the UN and the countries of the world the represent 99% of the people of the world.

[@流星宇-g7l]

台灣🇹🇼加油

[@xuli3961]

不作死就不会死

[@winniethepupil5942]

@@xuli3961 你说大陆支那吗？

[@tegshbayar3903]

uuu lets start the history with the westerns discovering the island and colonizing it. Typical

[@jackiewoo497]

the continuation of the Chinese Civil War

[@tkjaune]

Chinese can have their own way of doing things. We Taiwanese certainly don’t care to “prove that Chinese culture can adopt democratic values.” If anything, Singapore is probably a better”example” than us. For one, we appreciate the growth and enlightenment Japanese brought to the island even more, because all that Kuomintang Chinese brought to the island was destruction and erosion of the best of our culture.

[@thenobleman4557]

Ya the lower you kneel to Japanese the more food they give to you.

[@tkm238-d4r]

Much of the Japanese growth was a result of US unofficial suzerainty after 1945, not as a result of Japanese colonial rule of Taiwan.

[@naguoning]

In general the video is correct but it misses a couple of important things and the map of European colonialization is wrong. They never controlled that much land in effect more was still only under Aboriginal rule. That said some islands like Penghu and Xiao Liuqiu are not shown but were controlled. Also it is important to note the Chinese rulers other than the KMT starting in 1945 didn't control even half the island. Like the Europeans they were unable to control a lot of the mountain areas and East coast. The Japanese were the first to really control the island as one entity. Also a short lived Republic of Formosa (台灣民主國 ) was declared and accepted by the Qing before the Japanese invaded. This is important because it shows how easily the CCP's words are disproven as they always lie that Taiwan was never a country. It is true more than half the land was still under Aboriginal control but the Republic of Formosa/Taiwan did exist and things like the flag and even stamps were issued and recognised.

[@deanzaZZR]

Come on the "Republic of Formosa" was an ill conceived attempt to deny the island to the Japanese. The Chinese on Taiwan resisted Japanese occupation and many were killed by the invaders.

[@lagrangewei]

Taiwan isn't a country today because it own constitution does not call it a country. you can't be a country until you declare you are one. that is what the declaration of independence mean. while 台灣民主國 had existed... for a few month, it no longer a political entity in 2024. just as Ezo republic no longer exist today. beside, today it is not PLA that is occupying island of Taiwan, but ROCA that is occupying island on the mainland. so they entirely have the right of war, because Taiwan is occupying territories that both ROC and PRC consider as Fujian province China. before mdm Tsai became president, she briefly considered the possibility of ending Taiwan occupiation of Fujian, as a legal scholar she understand the legal realities, but after becoming president you have to deal with the political reality that any president that gave up territory to Beijing, would see the end of their political life... so there is no easy fix. despite Lai being very strong on independence, he too dare not mention the problem of ROCA occupiation of islands in Fujian. so Taiwan is struck in politcal deadlock, unable to truly end it "occupiation of China".

[@Kukura001]

No pre-modern state was able to control all territories. Does Sweden control all the northern fjords? Did Indonesia control all the jungles? Does Saudi Arabia control all the deserts? 99% of today's Taiwanese are Fujianese immigrants who have been speaking Minnan for the last 200 years. Taiwanese consider aborigines as ancestors just like German-Americans consider Indians as ancestors.

[@auburntiger6829]

The short-lived Republic of Formosa (台灣民主國) is actually a terrible example to your point because it was founded by a group of Qing loyalists in reaction to Japanese terms in the Treaty of Shimonoseki. Qiu Fengjia declared the republic to continue the resistance in the hopes of reintegrating with the Qing at some point. However, the declaration was officially disavowed by China.

[@deanzaZZR]

@@auburntiger6829 Careful. Your on point comment could be deleted as mine was. The boys and girls at the Economist have a particular story they want to tell. That is why I stopped listening to their China focused podcast.

[@jackychen5578]

Starting from the title, it's really bad.

[@lukew3224]

Lol most of taiwanese don’t consider themselves as Chinese at all, even for culture sense

[@tkm238-d4r]

They definitely considered themselves ethnically Han Chinese, perhaps with the exception of some of the aboriginals. The aboriginals are highly Sinicized so much of a separate racial identification is more symbolic.

[@CountDankula0]

Taiwan is the true government of west Taiwan

[@Kukura001]

You could say that before the PRC joined the UN in 1971. Not being in the UN was an illegal insurgent regime

[@skc8712]

@@CountDankula0 Totally agree, so 反攻大陸 when

[@bunnyfreakz]

West taiwan is cringe reddit brainrot jargon. just stop it.

[@tkm238-d4r]

Do not forget about North Taiwan in Mongolia and Shoiguland Tuva. 😊😊

[@Bk6346]

The ROC lost the war so the true government of the mainland is the PRC.

[@sara.cbc92]

Do you rather befriend a Taiwanese or Mainlanders? Like for Taiwan 🇹🇼

[@보키더록]

How did you went from Korea hater to a like begger 😂

[@kenyup7936]

hi from China, why our country China is always wanted so called invaded Taiwan? you need to think about it why, Singapore and Malaysia as well Chinese dominated there but our country Never ever claimed Singapore and Malaysia is our territory, why our country always targeted Taiwain specifically ?

[@刘旺刘旺-q5m]

侵入？不，不，不，这是一场内战。

[@无敌西卡]

因为新加坡和马来西亚本来就不是中国领土啊（地理层面），而台湾在旁边。如果当年国民党逃到马六甲海峡建了一个台湾，谁会理他？

[@刘旺刘旺-q5m]

内战

[@eggplantandpeach]

Reunificate China with Mongolia.

[@tkm238-d4r]

The ROC has sort of dropped its claim to Mongolia but not necessarily fully giving up.

[@Bk6346]

Inner Mongolia which is larger than Texas or British Columbia is a part of China today. Nice try with that logic.

[@dzttuo255]

Classic American propaganda! Uncle Sam is totally pumped to share it with the kids. 😂🎉

[@solotrue45]

Confucious visited taiwan first , before Qing ceded to Japan. So its in Chinese religion to take Taiwan. They have a right to self defense as a result, its in their religion. thats fair, and everyone accepts that except few snowflakes.

[@thomasho7292]

Free 🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼

[@vietnguyen4312]

Thanks for the video. I would like to add a few key points. 1: In the last 400 years Taiwan has been under the partial control of 5 different regimes. Prior to this time the Taiwanese Aboriginals ruled the island for nearly 30000 years. No invader managed to rule and govern the island until Japanese occupation. 2: The Manchurian Qing who also conquered China had minimal control of Taiwan in fact the Qing only managed to rule less than 20% of the island while the aborigines ruled and controlled over 80% of the island. The Qing created a border in 1750 with rocks which was called the Tu Niu Red Line. The Japanese were the first country to colonise Formosa and create roads and infrastructure.. 3: In 1936, when the Republic of China (ROC) was China’s government and Taiwan (Formosa) was a Japanese colony, Chairman Mao Zedong offered support to Korea and Formosa if their peoples wished to gain independence from Japan. Mao’s internationalist position suggested that 1) both Korea and Formosa have a right to independence, and 2) this is based on the right to self-determination. Mao did not claim that Taiwan has been an integral part of China for centuries, as insisted by the Chinese government today. Interview with Mao in 1936 EDGAR SNOW: Is it the immediate task of the Chinese people to regain all the territories lost to Japan, or only to drive Japan from North China, and all Chinese territory above the Great Wall? MAO: It is the immediate task of China to regain all our lost territories, not merely to defend our sovereignty below the Great Wall. This means that Manchuria must be regained. We do not, however, include Korea, formerly a Chinese colony, but when we have re-established the independence of the lost territories of China, and if the Koreans wish to break away from the chains of Japanese imperialism, we will extend them our enthusiastic help in their struggle for independence. The same thing applies to Formosa. Source: Marxists Internet Archive 4: After WW2 the Formosa was not ceded to China. Article 10 of the Taipei Peace Treaty stipulates that “nationals of the Republic of China shall be deemed to include all the inhabitants and former inhabitants of Taiwan (Formosa) and Penghu (the Pescadores).” Therefore the Taipei Peace Treaty transferred Japans sovereignty of Taiwan to ALL the inhabitants living of the island NOT to mainland China. FACT The inhabitants in 1952 were the ROC escapees, Taiwanese Aborigines, Japanese descendants, Dutch descendants, Portuguese descendants, previous Chinese descendants. The island was not ceded to China. 5: The fact is, Mao never cared about Taiwan and in his eyes the war was over and therefore declared victory. Taiwan was not added into the PRC constitution until 1978 when Deng Xiaoping become president.

[@bctvanw]

1:07 Koxigina and his Japanese mother's statue is in Japan where Koxinga was born. In 1624, the Dutch arrived Taiwan and Koxinga was born in Japan to a Japanese mother.

[@vietnguyen4312]

@@bctvanw True. The Japanese were the first country to colonise Formosa and create roads and infrastructure..

[@imokimok3914]

Korea was never “colony” which is 殖民地 in Chinese. There is a specific term regarding the regional order in pre-modern East Asia, which is “tributary system” 朝贡制 in Chinese.

[@imokimok3914]

The colonization of Taiwan has already started since the time of Zheng-Chenggong 郑成功, and nowadays, majority of Taiwanese people are ethnic Han Chinese.

[@imokimok3914]

So comparing Taiwan and Korea is just so wrong. There is nothing similar historical background between Taiwan and Korea. If you want to compare, the relationship between Mainland China and Taiwan, is more like the relationship between South Korea and North Korea.

[@nenenekone9100]

Welcome everyone to come visiting our beautiful country, as long as u r friendly, it doesn't matter where u come from, what color or gender u r, we are hospitable to anyone~ :) world peace

[@xuxu7261]

WHAT, in the name of Jzz?

[@aymanbenbaha]

There are a lot of CCP simping bots in this section, yikes.

[@Kukura001]

Democracy allows for different voices. I wouldn't call people who disagree robots

[@shakiMiki]

Is that code for people who disagree with you?

[@rayx8329]

An adult debates with a primary school student whether one plus one equals two. The adult's answer is three and the primary school student's answer is two. When the adult cannot argue with the primary school student, he tells others that he is just a primary school student and do not believe this primary school student. , to prove that the adult’s answer is correct. We call this behavior wearing a hat

[@龍-j7r6l]

They're all using vpns too. Which is illegal where they're simping from

[@Bk6346]

Could be Chinese Nationalists

[@harryzhang9134]

if you think the relationship between Chinese mainland and Taiwan should be decided by current situations, then you should also agree that Eastern Ukraine belongs to Russia at now

[@陈晨-k2i]

在我看来。。就是两个政权罢了，你看他们的英文全称。。都有china

[@LaiHsinyi92]

Taiwan wasn’t ceded to China in 1945. Similair to how the US occupied Japan and Korea after WW2, the ROC was given “administrative” control of Taiwan (occupation). However, the ROC refused to leave, although, the US ended its occupation of Japan and Korea. Both the US and UK, the major Allie powers that Japan surrendered to, stated in the 1950s that sovereignty of Taiwan was never given to ROC.

[@Aztec1050]

So to whom was the sovereign of Taiwan given to?

[@captives6479]

Taiwan is falling behind mainland China precisely because of Taiwan's liberal democracy.

[@Beband9]

As a mainlander, I genuinely admire their freedom

[@GoodCitizen-gm1tl]

motorcycle tsunami in Taipei streets, similar view with that of Cambodia or Vietnam

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

As president of united states Donald Trump Taiwan is part of China

[@AC-he8ln]

The first document about Taiwan aborigines written by a Chinese author is Dongfangji (東番記) by Chen Di (陳第), from the 17th century. This document proves that in the 17th century, China didn't even know Taiwan was an island.

[@macoyang]

After World War II, the sovereignty of Taiwan and the Pescadores (Penghu) has been subject to multiple documents and events, but there is no single, definitive legal document that explicitly and legally transfers sovereignty over Taiwan and Penghu to China (the Republic of China, under the Kuomintang). Below are some critical documents and events, none of which provide clear legal evidence for the transfer of sovereignty: Cairo Declaration (1943): The Cairo Declaration, issued by U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, and the leader of the Republic of China, Chiang Kai-shek, stated that Taiwan should be returned to China after the war. However, the declaration is a political statement and does not carry legal force. Potsdam Proclamation (1945): The Potsdam Proclamation reaffirmed the goals of the Cairo Declaration, calling for Japan’s unconditional surrender and the relinquishment of territories including Taiwan. Still, it remains a conditional demand rather than a legal document confirming the transfer of sovereignty. Japanese Instrument of Surrender (1945): After Japan’s formal surrender, the Republic of China began its military occupation of Taiwan, with the "Retrocession Day" (October 25, 1945) marking the handover ceremony. However, this was merely a military occupation, not a formal transfer of sovereignty under international law. Treaty of San Francisco (1951): This treaty is the official post-war peace treaty with Japan. In it, Japan renounced all rights, claims, and titles to Taiwan and Penghu, but the treaty did not specify a successor state. Notably, neither the Republic of China nor the People's Republic of China was a party to this treaty. Treaty of Peace between Japan and the Republic of China (1952): This treaty between Japan and the Republic of China also did not clearly establish Taiwan’s sovereignty. Instead, it reiterated Japan’s renunciation of its claims over Taiwan. In summary, while there are political declarations and international treaties referring to Taiwan, none legally transferred sovereignty to China (whether the Kuomintang regime or the People's Republic of China). The issue remains unresolved in international law. Whether the civil war between the Kuomintang and the Chinese Communist Party ended or not has no bearing on the sovereignty of Taiwan and Penghu, as neither party has legally acquired sovereignty over these territories.

[@macoyang]

Taiwan’s Sovereignty Is Not a Continuation of the Chinese Civil War: The Chinese Civil War was primarily a struggle between the Kuomintang (KMT) and the CCP for control of mainland China, and Taiwan was never a major battlefield in this conflict. After the ROC government relocated to Taiwan in 1949, Taiwan’s history, politics, and economy began to diverge from those of mainland China. Taiwan's sovereignty issue is tied to the post-World War II international legal framework, not merely an extension of the civil war. From an International Law Perspective: Taiwan's Sovereignty Was Never Legally Granted to the ROC, Let Alone the CCP: Declarations like the Cairo Declaration, the Potsdam Proclamation, or Japan’s Instrument of Surrender do not carry the legal force required to transfer Taiwan’s sovereignty. In the Treaty of San Francisco, Japan renounced its claims to Taiwan and the Pescadores, but no recipient state was specified. The ROC’s administration of Taiwan was based on military occupation, not on any formal transfer of sovereignty recognized by international law. Since the ROC itself lacks a solid legal claim to Taiwan’s sovereignty, the CCP cannot "inherit" something that was never legally owned by the ROC. The Reality of Two Separate Governments: The ROC and the PRC: The People's Republic of China (PRC) was established in 1949, resulting in a split between the ROC and the PRC. Since then, the ROC has continued to govern Taiwan, and the PRC has never exercised effective control over Taiwan. There is no legitimate legal succession between the two governments regarding sovereignty over Taiwan. The PRC cannot simply claim it has "inherited" Taiwan because it gained control over mainland China. Taiwan’s Right to Self-Determination and Democratic Development: Modern Taiwan has its own government, military, and legal system, and has undergone decades of democratic development. The people of Taiwan have the right to self-determination, which is a fundamental principle of international human rights law. The issues of the Chinese Civil War or governance in China cannot override the rights and choices of the Taiwanese people. The PRC Had No Role in the Treaty of San Francisco: The PRC was not a signatory to the Treaty of San Francisco and therefore has no legal standing to claim any inheritance of Taiwan's sovereignty. This invalidates any argument that the PRC is the rightful successor to Taiwan's sovereignty based on this treaty. Framing Taiwan’s sovereignty as a continuation of the Chinese Civil War overlooks the complexities of post-war treaties and the right of self-determination for the people of Taiwan. Sovereignty is not simply a matter of internal Chinese politics but one of international law and the will of the Taiwanese people. Thus, the argument that Taiwan’s status is part of the civil war’s legacy is inaccurate and cannot withstand scrutiny based on facts or legal principles.

[@Gepap3]

This is a ridiculous take - the ROC controls these territories and has since 1945. To claim international Law hasn't settled the matter basically gives the PRC blank slate then to take the territories, as they are "unclaimed" land under this ridiculous premise.

[@macoyang]

Currently, the Republic of China (ROC) government exercises effective control over Taiwan, but due to the lack of formal recognition or legal determination regarding its sovereignty by the international community, the notion of "undetermined sovereignty" has emerged. In other words, the ROC's control reflects the reality of governance, while the issue of sovereignty remains an unresolved legal question. 1. Taiwan Is Not a "unclaimed" land (Land Without Sovereignty): Although Taiwan's sovereignty has not been explicitly determined under international law, it is not a "land without sovereignty." Since 1945, Taiwan has been effectively governed by the ROC, with its own government, legal system, military, and democratic elections. This effective governance aligns with the principle of "effective control" in international law, meaning that Taiwan is a fully functioning political entity. Effective control signifies that Taiwan’s status is stable and continuously governed, rather than being unclaimed or ungoverned territory. 2. The Concept of "Undetermined Sovereignty" Does Not Justify Occupation by Other States: The core of the "undetermined sovereignty" argument stems from post-World War II treaties (such as the Treaty of San Francisco) that did not specify a successor state to Taiwan’s sovereignty. However, this does not imply that any country has the right to claim or occupy Taiwan. International law, particularly the "Principle of Non-Aggression," prohibits any state from using force to unlawfully occupy another's territory. China's claim to "inherit" Taiwan or any attempt to use force to seize Taiwan cannot be justified under international law. 3. The Right to Self-Determination for the People of Taiwan: The fundamental principle of "self-determination" in international law protects the right of all peoples to choose their own political status. Taiwan, with its population of 23 million, operates under a democratic system that allows its people to elect their own government. Even with the argument of undetermined sovereignty, this does not undermine the legitimacy of Taiwan's right to self-determination. Under international law, Taiwan's future should be determined by the will of its own people, not imposed by external powers, such as China. 4. China's Claim to Taiwan's Sovereignty Lacks a Solid Legal Basis: China’s claim that Taiwan is part of its territory is primarily based on historical narratives and the assertion that the People’s Republic of China (PRC) "inherited" the ROC’s territory after the civil war. However, this is not widely accepted by the international community. According to the Treaty of San Francisco, Japan renounced its sovereignty over Taiwan, but no recipient state was specified, meaning that Taiwan's sovereignty was never explicitly transferred under international law. Moreover, the Chinese Communist Party did not participate in or sign these treaties, so it cannot use them as a legitimate basis for its territorial claims. 5. The International Community’s Realistic Approach: Most countries, including the United States, do not recognize Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan. Instead, they follow a "One China Policy" that acknowledges the PRC as the sole legal government of China but does not extend that recognition to Taiwan’s sovereignty. In practice, the international community does not support China’s territorial claims over Taiwan. According to the UN Charter and international law, the Taiwan issue should be resolved peacefully, and any attempt to occupy Taiwan by force would lack legal legitimacy. In summary, Taiwan's sovereignty may be unresolved in international law, but this does not undermine its status as a functioning and effectively governed entity. The right of the people of Taiwan to self-determination, alongside international legal principles, limits any external claims to its territory, including those by China.

[@canto_v12]

The Republic of China’s flag and constitution have flown over Taiwan from 1945 to this day. They don’t need a doc signed by white people to allow them to continue on. The idea that Taiwan was legally “unclaimed” from 1945 to 1949 is water under the bridge, because the ROC physically claimed it in totality in 1949. The same thing happened to Hong Kong. Did it go indie in 1945 when Japan surrendered? No, the Brits swooped right back in and the ROC had no chance.

[@tkm238-d4r]

What a long-winded story. Now, here's the short part. SURRENDER means surrender in 1945. 😊😊After that, it is up to the receiving party to decide on the future. Now just TW but other surrendered territories, including South Sakhalin, Kuril Islands, Southeast Asia and mainland China. Your writing re-imagines Taiwan as already a separate territory back then. No it wasn't. It was just another Japanese-administered region. If you read the events carefully, post-war Japan, in simple terms, was reduced to the 4 islands as defined by the Potsdam declaration.

[@branfooy]

Never understood why China is so aggressive towards a small country like Taiwan?

[@whyyoutouzhele2]

In fact, the CCP has always emphasized Taiwan, but they are not determined to fight. They want to divert the attention of the people and create an imaginary enemy so that the people will not notice the contradictions around them, the real source of their miserable lives: the dictatorial CCP

[@보키더록]

If CSA were to flee to Cuba, do you think US would be aggressive to it?

[@보키더록]

⁠@@whyyoutouzhele2”imagery enemy” Taiwan or ROC and PRC has always been considered enemy since the civil war, not sure tf you are yapping about. No need to be hypocrisy, because if PRC were to be Taiwan and ROC in mainland, ROC would also do the same.

[@Bk6346]

Chinese Nationalism and its also in Taiwan.