The Horrifying True Story of the Pied Piper

[@IntotheShadows]

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[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

This channel is awesome ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@GrievousReborn]

No thanks even with your $5 off it is overpriced $35 for four boxes of cereal

[@jackalbright4599]

No thank you. Unless it is a necessity, I frequently refused by products I've seen advertised as I find advertisements to be insufferable harassment. (imagine if I followed you around all day long constantly trying to get you to buy products you don't need and never asked for)

[@Zzfine-canadian]

I would but the delivery company they use in canada is a known scammer!

[@protow5041]

Its like dry captain crunch.. only milk doesn't dull the sharp shards that put holes in your gums

[@angelachouinard4581]

My grandmother had a really old book of fairy tales. It pulled no punches. The evil sisters in Cinderella tried to fit into the magic shoes. One cut off her heel and the other cut off her toes. The prince was no fool, he spotted the blood. I can only imagine the uproar over a book like that now. But that original Cinderella taught me an important lesson. People will resort to extreme measure for money.

[@eadweard.]

What would the uproar be about?

[@evanwilliams3645]

@@eadweard. Her example is quite mild to some of the old ways the stories were told. Google is your friend to ask such things though.

[@eadweard.]

@@evanwilliams3645 Cannot tell what you are trying to say.

[@austinreed7343]

In another version the stepmother is burned alive. Yet in this version she gets no punishment.

[@lilykep]

I had that book too! I vividly remember thinking those stories were much more realistic than Disney. I was an extremely pessimistic child.

[@larseickstaedt]

I'm a Hamelin native - and live in Coppenbrügge. I hike through the ITH (Koppenberg/Calvarienberg) almost daily. It's the mountain to which the piper led the children. They vanished in the pit "Teufelsküche" (devil's kitchen), still a very mystical place today. I'm just in the process of writing a local mystery & adventure audio drama including all this.

[@Highspergamy]

The "pit"... very interesting.. I've found that in most esoteric literature, anything P T or P D is a reference to Palladion or Pallas Athena. This can be a reference to the woman who actually inspired Athena, or to Palla dion (Aten)... The creed of Aten/Adonai ..

[@Highspergamy]

Example... Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. PD Pallas Athena DG Dag... Hebrew for "fish", or even "Great fish".. Esau, Absalom, Joshua, Jesus... Fell on his Uncle's/Brother's/Father's* (*By Levirate marriage) bad side by marrying his half-sister(his father's daughter-wife) and taking his very unpopular father's throne... This leading to his brutal murder at his father's hands.

[@thomasfink2385]

Moment mal - It is called "Hameln", how do you come to "Hamelin" ?

[@robertsirois486]

Devil's kitchen? Beyond the piper, I wonder what kind of mischief went on there?

[@larseickstaedt]

@@thomasfink2385 Hamelin is the English name for Hameln - all a little bit verwirrend 😆

[@ryma5488]

Thank you for covering this topic. No one knows exactly what happened to the children, but the fact that the adults remembered “the children left us” 100 years later confirms something very tragic happened.

[@arvintyree1109]

I always thought the piper was a chaotic neutral fariy and was in the right cause the town should have paid him. Plus it never stated he killed the children just lured them through a magic gateway so they could have just lived out their lives in the fairy realm or be sent to another land so far away the towns folk would never hear of their whereabouts

[@ryma5488]

Well that's certainly an optimistic view of it.@@arvintyree1109

[@chriscampbell9191]

@@arvintyree1109 In Irish and other Celtic folklore, fairies did live in 'raths', or mounds, so it's possible that a fairy element to the story was introduced at some time during the telling of it over the centuries.

[@Blasted2Oblivion]

​@@arvintyree1109 I have one small problem with that idea. Faeries of old folklore were not the kind of beings to go so light on punishment.

[@zonesquestiloveunderworld]

It really doesn't "confirm" anything at all. Back in those days, 100 years could easily mean 4-5 generations of people, probably more in many cases, and the more generations there are, the more likely such a tale will be ridiculously embellished. It's almost impossible to "confirm" anything that happened in history, no matter what evidence you might have - and purely textual evidence is probably the most flimsy evidence of all, since writing 5was exclusive to those of "high status" and people in such positions have many ways to justify bending or outright fabricating the "truth".

[@lowfianimal8605]

"It is now 100 years since our children left" is such a chilling line

[@SuzysRedStripes]

And depressing

[@JessCatlessi]

Great first line to a book though

[@laura121684]

@@nickfrito That's a great point.

[@notmaireelneim]

Yeah. it means they are about 130 years old.

[@Volundur9567]

​@@nickfritoif I see it in German, I'll know the connotation.

[@FlyingFawnWithNoWings]

I grew up near Hamelin and we regularly visited the town for a day trip. Definitely worth visiting. Many people don't even know the town is real, I even met Germans who didn't know. It is really fascinating how the town is so influenced by an event that happened 750 years ago. Of course tourism is important, there is a museum with the towns history, in summer you can see a reenactment, and you can book a tour through the town lead by a piper. If I had to guess what happened, I subscribe to the theory that the children moved to what is now Romania, recruited by a group including musicians. There is even a village/town in Romania where the people claim to be the descendents of the children of Hamelin, and say that their ancestors came out of a cave not far away where the village is located.

[@jamesb4789]

There is another theory I have seen and that is the town owed a lot of money and offered the children in payment, a practice common across Europe at the time. It is far simpler than the other explanations, but very repugnant to people today. I also think the line "It is now 100 years since our children left" makes far more sense in that context. If 130 people up and left in 1285, it would not have merited such a comment 100 years later, but selling off 130 of the towns children (and future) would have left deep scares.

[@dj1NM3]

@@jamesb4789 That kind-of meshes in with the piper being owed for something. I'm wondering if the rats in the version I know refer to some-one, rather than something, as rats have been used in anti-Semetic propaganda before and since...

[@nlwilson4892]

@@jamesb4789 That makes far more sense and the piper may have been sent as an agent of someone they owned money to or the agent of someone prepared to buy the children so they could pay debts to others. That would also tie with other towns being in a similar situation and with the lame children being left behind.

[@sciencedavedunning3415]

According to H.G. Wells "Outline of History" , the incident originated with the over-taxed French peasants being coerced into turning thier children over to the church for training to fight in the crusades. The children were put on a ship in Italy, transported to North Africa, and sold into slavery to the Islamic enemy. This became known as "The Children's Crusade ". aka the "3rd Crusade ". I tend to take Wells seriously as a historian....... You can believe what you will.

[@2degucitas]

​@@nlwilson4892 I can see how the piper would see the two "lame" children and tell them to go back home. Damaged goods, to him at least.

[@ChrisVillagomez]

I live in Michigan, USA and there's a city here that was founded by mostly Bavarian German immigrants called Frankenmuth. It's got all kinds of Bavarian-themed restaurants and shops and some lovely architecture. Inside my favorite restaurant, Bavarian Inn, they have somewhat children-friendly versions of the Grimm's Fairy Tales of Cinderella, the Pied Piper, and another but I can't remember if it's Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, or another princess-based story. It straight up says that the children who followed the Piper were never seen again after entering the woods and/or a cave in the woods, the obvious implication to adults being that they died somehow afterwards or were sold into slavery. If anyone ever is in the Frankenmuth area, I HIGHLY recommend visiting, there's lots of good food, fun stuff to do, and even a zoo

[@kathypichey4306]

Been there wasn't impressed

[@LisaHeiss-c8d]

One day I will when I move out there. California has a German town that sounds somewhat similar

[@Sismsodmdmd]

My favorite place to stay

[@mattdelight]

Don't forget Bronners!

[@edscmidt5193]

I have a degree in history and when he starts getting into all the nuances of terms that mean different things in the past than today, that really is what history is all about. You really have to know A LOT to have an actual understanding, and it’s really fun when research comes together like that

[@xessenceofinsanityx]

Yeah as soon as he said "children of Hamelin" my first thought was just...people who came from Hamelin. The evolution of language is awesome but also very confusing

[@richardm3023]

That's the problem with the majority of people, they have no historical frame of reference to understand how and why people in the past did what they did. They think that people have always been the way they are today.

[@mikejohnson5900]

@@richardm3023Exactly. Many people have no idea how important it is to how things came about historically speaking. We didn't just get here - it was a long progression. But for some folks history starts two weeks ago!

[@actionjksn]

If you have a degree in history then you should know, The truth is the pied Piper played his instrument and the children followed him into a cave, and then he made the cave entrance disappear. This is a fact. If you are a real historian you should know this, since it is the real history of what happened that fateful day.

[@edscmidt5193]

@@actionjksn I didn’t focus on 12th centurty German history or whenever this was, I know very little German so I certainly couldn’t read primary sources from that time. But I know you’re wrong because there are no caves in Germany

[@bloodygoat6941]

My grandma who lived in Hameln always told the story with a more horrible ending. The piper drowns the children just like the rats before

[@charlesp.8555]

This is the version I know as well.

[@karlrovey]

I remember that version being set in a poem.

[@Bethgael]

Same (Australian here), with the lame child being the survivor.

[@LichtdesMorgens]

Thats the version I was told as a kid as well

[@dariusanderton3760]

chilling

[@numbertwelve8627]

As a German, I grew up with many a fairytale, including that of the pied piper. To me, the old fairytales were always about educating children to be good and virtuous, as that is a common motive - the good and virtuous are rewarded/the bad are being punished somehow. My guess would be that the account of some emigration from Hamelin was embellished to fit this - it adds a moral component to make it a cautionary tale about holding up your end of a deal.

[@leighlowe1069]

We grew up (England) even as late as the 90s (i was born 87) hating the Germans (if you dont understand why, you might need a doctor) but its weird that being a bit older, & having mixed with Germans, tasted their culture so to speak, learned quite a bit of their language, & most of the country cheered Germany on in the 2014 world cup final, because Argentina was a more recent war & not as keen to distance themselves from Nazis etc.. its weird how you can hate people you dont know because youre told to.. then fond out, okay, these guys aint too bad actually

[@Sorchia56]

I’m only 6 minutes in, including advert, and I said out loud ‘have to pay the piper’! My husband asked ‘what’d I do now?’ 😂😂😂😂 he’s American and his mum nor grandmother told him any fairy tales, so I had to explain it to him. I’m going to have to make him read The Grimm Brothers book…AGAIN!!! 😂

[@scottn1019]

I have Grimm's fairy tales and Hans Christian Andersen s fairy tales on my bookshelf . Both very good

[@keithdurose7057]

I lived in and around Hameln or Hamlyn during and after my time in the British Army. Serving in both RE regiments stationed there. The story then was that the children were led away to the Klut. A mountain just outside of the city. The river Weser runs through Hameln. There are many stores from this area. Just down the road. B83. Is Bodenwerder. Here was where Baron Munchausen lived. A real character. His second wife. 40 years his junior claimed illness and moved to the spa town of Bad Pyrmont. Not too far away. It is rumored that her intentions were less than moral! The geography of the area lends itself to many stories of caves and tunnels.

[@Blasted2Oblivion]

At least it has an appropriate ending for that lesson, unlike Runplestiskin. He got ripped off and the lady never had to pay up.

[@fmbga]

I once had the good fortune to find two German books in an antique book store, containing collected pre-Grimm folk stories and fairy tales. They were very interesting in how different most of them were: usually short, simple, and often weirdly specific. Like, some years ago there lived a bridge troll under the bridge over this specific river, outside that specific town. It led me to think I was seeing an evolution, where either real events or scary stories made to sound real were told and retold, getting more elaborate and less specific over time, and finally the Grimms came along and collected the best they could find. The Grimms Märchen I remember from my youth in northern Germany were the scarier versions, where the happenings were occasionally horrific, and the end was not always happy. I assume children 400 years ago were used to seeing events that we today would find extreme, and if you wanted to educate them about the virtues of a moral life, you had to be really clear about the dire consequences of straying from the path. I also remember a number of Greek and Nordic myths that were similar (or worse) in that regard, so the German stories were no standouts. German fairy tales are probably most commonly encountered today because they had such capable chroniclers in the brothers Grimm, not because Germans invented more of them than other people.

[@stefiskek6894]

Haha they are surely interesting. I come from that area and it was really common that you had a fairy-tale book from Grimm and your parents read that to you before going to bed.. and was seen as totally normal. But in hindsight some scared me. And I can understand why a lot of US parents would find it inappropiate stories for children. There are so many weird ones.. a lot I do not know the English terms for but sausagefinger-boy was a weird one. If I recall he stole a pie so then his parents cut all his fingers off... It contained more the 400+ tiny stories and I legit can't remember one where noone died or got maimed horribly. I've seen some skit from someone pretending to be German and telling a German fairy tale but forgot the name that said is totally correctly. "once upon a time their was a young child, it died horribly. Gutennacht!" :')

[@cocksure8430]

Events we would find extreme? Two world wars, six million gassed and shovelled into ovens. Yeah, its a good job we dont live in the violent middle ages huh?......

[@brokentoy8616]

Do you know the name of these books?

[@athenaschoolar297]

You assumed properly (although strange you weren't didn't told it in school during world literature lessons). Original stories (not only in Germany, including myths, yes) weren't fairy tales for babies. Brothers Grimm mollified them and then they were even more corrected and rewritten as "appropriate" for children

[@athenaschoolar297]

@@stefiskek6894 Still much better (and safer for kid) to have original literature on the shelf available for children instead psychopathic neighbor with the gun, don't you think?

[@marcelgiller2528]

Another cultural fun fact, in Hamlin is a street called "Bungelosenstraße" which is supposed to be the street where the children left. To this day, one is prohibited from playing music in this street, if you do you will be fined. ( I can't recollect if that actually ever happened, but the law is still on the books)

[@Arltratlo]

naja, vielleicht war Musik bei den Hugenotten nicht sehr beliebt?? ich hoffe du weißt was Hugenotten sind?

[@purplemonkey649]

Some of the laws still on the books can be weird and wonderful. It's still legal to kill Scotsmen's in the city of York. If they're carrying a bow and arrow. Except on Sundays.

[@larseickstaedt]

Not quite right😁. You mean "Bungelosenstraße" = "drumless street" (Bunge = Drum) and has the insciption "kein Tanz geschehen noch Saitenspiel gerührt werden" . Greetings from Hamlin 🙃 (well actually from Coppenbrügge, near the hill Koppen (Ith), in which the piper and the children vanished)

[@scottn1019]

​@@Arltratlomany English surnames are derived from Huguenots surnames . Baker , cross , fox , white etc

[@johnblackbasel393]

​@@scottn1019This is correct. And from there on, one can find the trail from 1500s to nowadays, worldwide, of the feud between the Catholics and the Hugenots (sounds like hunger noten or hunger nöten, right?). Countless civil wars, countless slaughtering, for power, out of greed, up to WW1 and WW2. Whereas the youngest development has Donald Trump (of Hugenot descent) leading the Catholics (Reps) against the protestants (Democrats). This is mixed up. But one is sure. Who stays stuck in between (Atheists) is the pawn, and will experience hunger and death (as common in religion wars).

[@Blabberflups]

I love the gruesome and original versions of the brothers Grimm tales because they are so descriptive of the culture of past times. The fact that many versions of those tales existed got a bit lost in the process of culminating those tales and publishing multiple editions due to revisions, but at the same time, it shows the general Zeitgeist, values that were important and behavior that was acceptable vs unacceptable. Absolutely fascinating. Given that I grew up in Germany, I am always fascinated to see places where some tales took place. It is different to know that those tales aren't just based on pure fantasy.

[@ricoloco2803]

In my hometown there was a popular daycare named Pied Piper. Ever since learning the tale I thought that it was an extremely odd name for a daycare. Ever since learning about some of the atrocities that go on right under our noses, it doesn't seem as odd but definitely fills me with Dread

[@herseem]

It certainly smacks of someone who either didn't think through the symbology of the original story, or else they have in reality the same inclinations.

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

Following McDonald's withdrawal from Russia the Russians have formed a new brand to replace it, I'm not convinced it will be a success among English speakers though, it's called _Tasty Period._

[@MacNif]

Should look into that Daycare

[@chrisw5150]

I wouldn't send my child there!

[@maddhatter3564]

try this one on for similar effect. In Phoenix in 2001 a man named tom horn was running for school superintendent (Tom Horn was a western gunslinger accused, tried and hanged for killing a young boy after the town hired him to get rid of a bunch of outlaws then once they were gone decided Mr Horn himself was an outlaw) I heard recently Tom Horn was elected and is still in office

[@Arterexius]

"It is now 100 years since our children left" What a killer way to start off your town records. Honestly. That's absolutely legendary. Oh, and the emigration theory sounds totally plausible too. Fairy tales and songs was how people remembered events back when the majority of the population could neither read nor write. And for good reason too, especially when it comes to song. Humans have an amazing ability to remember anything that is turned into a song. Think of your childhood and the songs you grew up with. Can you still remember the lines? Probably yes and that is a testament to how efficient it is to turn history and important information into songs and tales. To make you remember. To make sure you never forget.

[@kathleenmcconaha5608]

I still sing the "alphabet" song to remember the order or which # the letter is

[@xhagast]

If most young adults left to move 400 kilometers away, their families would mourn them almost as if dead. It would take DECADES for the town to recover, and centuries to forget.

[@80Jay71]

Captivating. I still remember the lame child that didn't disappear. He told the adults that in the pipers music he was promised fields of green grass, meadows that smelled of flowers and every day a great feast for all the children forever and ever. He couldn't stop crying now when he never got to see those wonders and only had the memories of what the piper had promised with his music. I think that is from the Grimm's version, but I could have read/heard it from somewhere else.

[@rosestanley9606]

have you ever seen the movie that is where you got that bit from

[@80Jay71]

@@rosestanley9606 No. I'm sure this is from a story when I was a young child..

[@Rhysdux]

Robert Browning's poem, "The Pied Piper of Hamelin." Here's the pertinent bit: For he led us, he said, to a joyous land, Joining the town and just at hand, Where waters gushed and fruit-trees grew, And flowers put forth a fairer hue, And every thing was strange and new; The sparrows were brighter than peacocks here, And their dogs outran our fallow deer, And honey-bees had lost their stings, And horses were born with eagles' wings: And just as I felt assured My lame foot would be speedily cured, The music stopped and I stood still, And found myself outside the Hill, Left alone against my will, To go now limping as before, And never hear of that country more!

[@80Jay71]

@@Rhysdux Thank you! I must have read a shortened version. This I would have remembered! Maybe he wrote a poem about an older tale? It's still captivating, though.

[@hummingbirdchen]

This was always the saddest bit of the story, when I was a kid. I was haunted by the idea of that poor "lame" boy left behind... doomed to hang out with boring adults for the rest of his life 😅

[@Fuchswinter]

I talked to a Czech friend about this and apparently they have a similar story, but about a fiddler who then danced people to death and/or kidnapped everyone and led them to hell. I've seen variations of the same tale in other places, including a statue in the city of Uppsala, Sweden. It's fascinating how tales spread throughout the world, especially since this one seems based on a real story (and the dance to the death isn't impossible either, see the Dancing Plague of Strasbourg.)

[@JoshDisher]

We have a similar tale originating from the state of Georgia. Apparently The Devil challenged a young man named Johnny to a fiddle duel with them both putting up something valuable as the prize. Legend has it Johnny won a golden fiddle that day but went on to destroy his career by turning to Jesus and refusing to curse in any of his tunes that gained him his fame. I guess betting your soul has consequences even if you win.

[@DEATH-THE-GOAT]

I'm from Sweden so the Uppsala "piper" is something I need to dig into. I have not heard of this before.

[@Fuchswinter]

@@DEATH-THE-GOAT The statue in front of the train station depicts the piper! It's made by Bror Hjort even, but tbh the style used makes it a bit hard to see when just passing by, I only learned about it speaking to my friend. I was in Uppsala for an exchange semester and it's a great city :D

[@DEATH-THE-GOAT]

@@Fuchswinter thank you so much for the information 🙏

[@kathleenking47]

Was it children, or TEENS... Many teens were into their OWN MUSIC?

[@susannebrown1860]

Loved this video. I also grew up in Germany close to Hamlin (Hameln) and I have also been to Transylvania and find the German settled towns there endlessly fascinating. When I first visited Transylvania in the late 80s (long story) there were still many Germans there, but when I returned in the 2010s most had left for Germany after the fall of communism in Romania and their legacy is dying in that part of the world. So that explanation makes so much sense to me, growing up with the stories of the brothers Grimm I can't believe I never put that historical context together. So fascinating, thank you for telling this story.

[@catinthehat906]

I think this story must have a darker origin than just emigration of people somewhere else given it is remembered for so long. The explanation I've heard is related to a disorder called St Vitus Dance, which occurs primarily in children as a result of a contagious streptococcal infection in the throat that later results in an autoimmune neurological disorder where the afflicted have choreiform movements that appear to be like uncontrolled dancing. It can spread rapidly amongst populations and some individuals may die because of other complications of streptococcus like pericarditis or they are unable to eat. Perhaps somewhere along the way a poor piper got blamed for his music causing the affliction.

[@ancientmingyu0604]

But wouldn't the strange dancing be mentioned like in the case of the dancing plague in Strasbourg in 1518? And why the rats? Surely a group of 130 children dancing wildly would have been a more major point of the story and would have survived time in the retelling of it, so there wouldn't be the need to include rats in the story.

[@BradBrassman]

Very interesting and not unlike the plague of the firstborn sons of Egypt and the strange, "demonic posession" apparent in young girls and boys in Salem, Mass. which led to the famous Witchcraft Trials. Now they think that these, and several other happenings, was caused by Ergot Poisoning which is a deadly toxic mould that can grow on wheat crops. Indeed, The dancing plague you mention is now thought to be caused by similar, and was possibly blamed on rats?

[@catinthehat906]

@@LostSoulchild89 St Vitus dance is now thought to be a subset of PANDAS, ie one of a number of manifestations of the autoimmune response.

[@HughJass-313]

@@catinthehat906 I would think a Foreign Power coming into town and conscripting all the "fit & able" kids, and leading them all away _(for some Christian crusade)_ would be Pretty *DARK.* 😜

[@rondesantis7017]

​I Think The Rats Are The Key. The Abundant Use Of Cats Being Put Out At Night. In Europe. too Eliminate The Mice & Rodent Population. The Plague Streptococcal Micinius Pestes. As A Result of Rodent Infestation Seeking The Warmth Of Human Heating Their Homes. To Reproduce and Have Rodent Babies in A Warm Environment. The Story Of Willard The Rat Raising Boy.

[@aliahope-wilson4449]

Definitely agree with the last theory. Also it kinda explains why there were similar stories from other towns. If there were recruiters coming from Transylvania to Lower Saxony, they weren't only going to Hameln.

[@cooperdozier7406]

I like my idea about forced labor trafficking. The recruiter came to the towns, but only Hamelin has this story, because in Hamelin not a one of the children were ever heard from again.

[@richardtherichard26]

What similar stories from other towns? Lol it’s literally called the pied piper of Hamelin. Not “the pied piper of Hamelin and similar stories from other towns” or “the pied piper of multiple towns”…. What other made up towns are you talking about? 😂😂😂🤡🤡🤡

[@xhagast]

In the middle ages you left your home and nobody knew if they would see you again. Migrating meant permanent separation. Forever.

[@davefb]

@@richardtherichard26 Well, the ones mentioned in the video for starters..... the hamelin one is more famous because of the windows and then because of the various much later revisions of the tale.

[@zimriel]

@@davefb Brandenburg was noted

[@oldmuso586]

A theory I heard decades ago was something like this: The usual setup, piper, rats, year and a day, But at some point ergot infected the grain of the local grainhouse that the baker used, They made bread or similar from the grain, which drove the adult villagers mad, and they killed their own children. And because the piper suddenly popped up at the same time, they basically lynched him, and put all the bodies in a cave or mass grave, and laid all the blame on him. Now THAT is a dark story!

[@adamgladfelter8762]

logical too. similar to the logical reason behind the witch trials. grain can produce hallucinogens

[@haroldbrooks4235]

That does sound more plausible to me

[@maddhatter3564]

Why not , i hear theory bad grain led to hallucinations that started the whole 'witch trials' in new england

[@denofpigs2575]

​@@haroldbrooks4235I can't quite buy that. They all simultaneously got high and simultaneously all decided to kill only the children but not each other?

[@Laugh1ngboy]

@@denofpigs2575 More likely the children died from the poisoning of the food and the Piper was lynched in response to their grief.

[@CoedtwrchWild]

On a trip there, several years ago, we were told that the most likely explanation was, as you mentioned, due to the economic downturn. Families were starving and in such a situation, with no social fund to support them, they were forced en-mass to sell their children, (into slavery or servitude). In which case the pied piper represented the agent/people smuggler who paid the families for their children, (probably a v small sum they had no choice but to accept), before he took them away. The story that arose afterwards was the cover story, agreed upon by the parents/town as a whole, to hide their culpability from the unsympathetic, moralistic authorities. Is this a version anyone else has heard?

[@clairelevasseur9434]

Yes me!

[@brendaweis1444]

I have heard this version. I agree that this is most likely what happens.

[@youtubecensors5419]

It would also explain why the only children in the story to avoid the fate of the others were handicapped children, since perhaps they wouldn't have been accepted.

[@dreamcatcher75418]

Very interesting

[@briancooper9983]

"moralistic authorities" that object to selling children? call me moralistic.

[@susanmolnar9606]

I guess the term “time to pay the piper” came from this story.

[@darrenjones9359]

No

[@kaymuldoon3575]

Makes sense.

[@EsotericThoughts93]

@@darrenjones9359it’s actually exactly where it came from

[@NotThisShipSister1]

Yes I imagine it did but I must go look it up…. Okay did just that. All signs point to “YES”!

[@darrenjones9359]

@@NotThisShipSister1 no,

[@MogamiKyoko13]

I've always loved the Brothers Grimm fairytales. My 5th grade teacher also loved them and used to read them to us; her favorite was The Juniper Tree, but I do distinctly remember her reading us the Pied Piper and the whole class being super creeped out by it.

[@thkempe]

"the whole class being super creeped out" - Then the story has served its purpose perfectly, I think.😁

[@lorirussell6679]

You know, it was actually common to sell your children into servitude back then (and where)! It's more likely that the town had a debt to pay and so they sold their children. This was a story on the Lore Podcast.

[@davidsirmons]

But the inscription didn't say "it is now 100 years since we sold our children".

[@dkupke]

@@davidsirmonssome Baron, Earl, or count may have needed to raise some moolah fast. So the children did leave, but it wasn’t their parents who sold them into slavery.

[@sisuguillam5109]

All of them? No. And 'sold' means indentured servitude - a contract with an start and an end, and a known contractual partner. Simply doesn't fit.

[@mamasimmerplays4702]

@@sisuguillam5109 Sold can also mean chattel slavery. We're not privy to the contract, if that's what this was - but a corrupt lord selling his citizens' children to pay his own debts can't be assumed to have complied with local law about what sort of servitude was legal.

[@sisuguillam5109]

@@mamasimmerplays4702 No, it literally cannot. We know what laws applied and what social contracts permitted in that area and time.

[@PinkyJujubean]

My dad read this to me as a kid and I asked him what "pied" meant. "It means he only ate pie because it gave him magic powers". 😅

[@DKNguyen3.1415]

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit

[@Almugavar]

I'm stealing that.

[@AntoniOrszykowski]

​@@DKNguyen3.1415Explains the way of politicians.

[@jeffs7915]

Pied means 2 colors, not multi-color.

[@MichaelLevine-n6y]

@@jeffs7915 Can you cite a reference? I always thought multi-colored.

[@SkycometAnimeVamp]

The think I find interesting about this story is that unlike many fairytales and legends, it has a very specific place and time where it is supposed to have taken place

[@SoundShinobiYuki]

Yeah, the only other one I can think of that has an exact real-world location and wasn’t a completely written as a new modern story from the 19th/20th century is “Dick Whittington and his cat” (which is set *mostly* in London). And that one was based loosely on a real person.

[@angellesambre1]

I heard/read a version as a child where the Piper takes the children to the river and leads them all into it to drown. Footnote for Children's Crusade based on what I have read over the years, the majority of the children never made it anywhere close to the Holy Land. They were grabbed and sold into slavery along the way

[@DoloresJNurss]

Keep in mind also that mercenaries advertised their trade by wearing pied clothing. Every time that they succeeded in defeating a foe, they would cut a piece of the livery or flag of that foe and sew it into their clothes--the more pied the clothing, the more successful the mercenary. And, of course pipers led people to battle. The recruitment run might have had the threat of lethal force behind it.

[@FalseNi9e]

That's a really good point and should be considered

[@loke6664]

That is a good point, but it do seems like both male and female children disappeared, not only young male teenagers which would be the people recruited as mercenaries or soldiers. I don't think we can rule it out of course but neither do I think it is the likeliest explanation. The date is a bit late for them to fight against the Mongolian invasion of Germany in 1241, which otherwise would have made a lot of sense since recruitment at the time were rather frantic. But if 130 people were recruited to a war one would expect at least someone to return home eventually. Wars tended to be deadly but not that deadly.

[@beatrixthegreat1138]

@@loke6664 I have a dark theory about that… what happens to women and children when soldiers get their hands on them?

[@mweskamppp]

There were similar clothed recruiters for settlers in the east. Schlesien for example or Pommern.

[@loke6664]

@@beatrixthegreat1138 It is possible but if there was a nearby war with a lot of recruitment like 1241 it would make more sense. I think they were sent to a mine instead, both boys and girls were used in mines and we have a disappearing cave in the tale which do sound similar to a cave in. The stories all have 4 things in common: missing children of both sexes, someone in pied clothing, a cave that disappears and a kid or 2 (often with physical issues) that get left behind). A noble using a recruiter in pied clothing to get kids to work in his mind checks in all those boxes, a military recruitment does not. No cave, the kids would be at least 13 and only males to get recruited and there is no mention of adults getting killed which would happen if the mercenaries got wild. So therefor I think my mine theory is the likelier explanation but it is impossible to be certain unless someone finds a razed in mine from the time with child skeletons in. If they became soldiers or mercenaries, a few would return as adults since you didn't get 100% losses at the time. A mining accident is more likely to have no survivors.

[@christinaify]

It’s also possible that the piper and the kids aren’t related at all. Like a Piper came and rendered a service for which he wasn’t paid, so he cursed the town or just in general said “you’ll be sorry!” Then some completely unrelated event happened that struck the younger population very hard and the town went “it was the Piper!” I mean people believed in some batshit things in the 13th century. Trying to logically figure it out with our modern knowledge might be pointless.

[@PanglossDr]

Plausible.

[@paulgoogol2652]

There was also lots of shit happening and children often died.

[@pobsdad]

People STILL believe in some batshit crazy stuff! Back then they had an excuse, but now we have Google, and still have Flat Earthers!

[@fredhughes4115]

People believe in some batshit things in the 21st century. Trying to logically figure them out doesn't seem to be that popular of a pastime. Just sayin'.

[@michaelwakeford2336]

Excellent comment on all points.

[@shescraftea9107]

I always liked this story as a kid. The lesson I got from it was always keep your word.

[@evilwelshman]

I wonder if the story could be linked to *_dancing mania_* , which is a phenomenon that used to occur in the past where large groups would seemingly begin moving / dancing erratically, generally until they collapsed from exhaustion. The cause of such events are still unknown but they are numerous contemporaneous records documenting such events. Notably, there was a recorded incident where a large group of children from the town of Erfurt dance and jumped all the way to the town of Arnstadt, some 20km (approx. 12.5 miles) away. The incident occurred in 1237 and bears some resemblance to the Pied Piper story, with Hamelin about 200km away from Erfurt.

[@AliciaGuitar]

You should read The Red Shoes by Hans Christian Anderson.

[@anonygrazer3234]

Jerking & spasms were a symptom of ergot of rye, a mold that grew in rye back in that time, where sufferers would exhaust themselves with automatic spasms they couldn't control and medicine could not cure except to run its course.

[@jasonbender2459]

dont listen so good do you? peak christian brain worms (child crusades) mass hysteria and social contagion triggered or made worse by ergotism

[@rebeccachandler108]

The dancing plague is one of the larger recordings of mass hysteria.. it also occurred during the witch trials... Symptoms can be physically real but the cause is usually reflective of the concerns of that time.. It is caused my stress fear and paranoia.. This was one explanation for the girls who were "hexed" during the Salem witch trials in the states.. Think about how itchy your head gets when you hear a person mention a lice outbreak..in 62 a group were convinced they were being poisoned by June bugs after watching a news story.. There were no June bugs found at their work to explain their rashes

[@evilwelshman]

@@anonygrazer3234 If it was just random, uncoordinated movements, that could explain some of what was seen. But to reportedly be able to travel in a group from one town to another that is at least half a day's walk away?

[@jaded_gerManic]

Interesting. I'll have to look it up because I was always told/read that many of the children on that 'crusade' were sold into slavery. As for the piper story, the mystery surrounding it's origins shows how much language changes over time.

[@zarasbazaar]

That's what I've read, too, that they got to the southern coast to board boats for the Holy Land and the ship captains sold them.

[@kurtnagel3373]

Kinda like the bible🤣🤣

[@MarkJohnson-dr4ws]

​@kurtnagel3373 what is your irrelevant point ?

[@huolalupin6008]

Splendid video. Clear, fluent and fascinating from beginning to end. Congratulations.

[@grigorigahan]

I mean who knows, but I could also see this being some sort of ransom. A local lord or invading army levied a tax or tribute against the town and when the town failed to meet the demands of the tribute, this person rounded up the town's children and sold them off eastwards as domestic servants and worse.

[@Nostripe361]

I have also heard the theory that the piper is a representation of some natural event. Like the flood or a famine or other such event that would end the lives of children easily. The problem is that there are just so many possibilities that we will just never know with time travel becoming a thing. Though I will say I had never heard of the theory that it was just people moving to new settlements before this video.

[@grigorigahan]

@@Nostripe361 There are diseases like diphtheria which have outsized impacts on children over adults and it's certainly plausible. I don't know, I don't buy the migration story. The young emigrating for better opportunities elsewhere and leaving a village of old people watching the town die happens everywhere in all times, but most didn't spawn this sort of myth. But without any solid evidence it's very hard to do more than speculate. The migration hypothesis is at least testable. Assuming they migrated to the same general geographic area you should be able to find genetic markers either in modern day citizens there or in the remains of people in the following centuries from those areas. Again though, I don't think we will ever truly know.

[@prapanthebachelorette6803]

@@grigorigahan oh that makes sense

[@annihaa2079]

German here. This story terrified me when I was child. Had nightmares. Mom did not understand why😅

[@RaynmanPlays]

Other countries: "Be good and you will get a treat. Be bad and you will get no treat." Germany and Nordic countries: "Be bad and you will be murdered horribly. Be good and you (probably) won't be murdered horribly."

[@serduncan6933]

I hated Max and Moritz more...

[@lessgoofyone]

​@@RaynmanPlaysno there are scary children's stories all over the world

[@SuperKendoman]

The Snow Queen, Pinocchio and Snow White frightened me as a kid when I watched those cartoons during Christmas. There's something about them that seemed morbid and scary to me. Especially the witch in Snow White when she transformed from a quiet to an old evil woman

[@sebastian78503]

Alice in Wonderland gave me chills when I was a Kid. When I heard about the Story behind it (LSD-Trip) as a Young adult it all made Sense. I couldn't Tell why when I was Young, but Alice always felt different than all other fairytales.

[@sisuguillam5109]

You really need to keep in mind how small Hameln was back then. The town that memorised the event in documents and art was small and paid out large sums to remember the children they mourned. Whatever happend was deeply traumatising - and so well know that the actual story was not told but everyone still knew what happend, including people in the surrounding area. People knew the same way people know about traumatising stories in your family and town... and they knew well enough to use short-cuts to talk about it.

[@adammarktaylor]

I find the theory interesting that connects the story to the cases of Dancing Fever which was sweeping across Europe during the same time period, sometimes involving colourful figures leading the processions. In these accounts, groups of people, sometimes children but usually adults too, would begin dancing, and others who saw them dancing would catch the dancing bug and join in dancing, but once they start dancing they don't stop. They kept dancing til they collapsed, and sometimes died.

[@StrawberryLegacy]

I was thinking the same thing!

[@jamesb4789]

That was tied more to the black death period which was 60 years later.

[@SarahBakewell-pq7pb]

St Vitus Dance? caused by ergot poisoning, a fungus growing on mouldy rye. There were outbreaks throughout the Middle Ages.

[@tomhenry897]

Wasn’t proven it was a mold in the food making them high?

[@ant13665]

@@SarahBakewell-pq7pb probably responsible for the salem witch trials as well

[@FurikoMaru]

The versions I heard as a child always emphasized that the Piper took the kids because he thought cheapskates who weasel out of their debts aren't fit parents. I sort of assumed, when I thought it was just a fairy tale, that he carried the kids off to the lands of the fair folk - death to mortal adults, but eternal youth to the children.

[@raidzeromatt]

I prefer to imagine they just really didn't like pipers so they made up a story to get rid of them lmfao

[@jasonbender2459]

truth is the kids were fucled to death by a bunch of pedos

[@westswell2757]

Simon, I heartily recommend the 1957 Pied Piper movie starring Van Johnson. I remember it for featuring Grieg's ominous "In the Hall of the Mountain King".

[@Amethystar]

I know this is late, but the whole soundtrack is based around Grieg's "Peer Gynt" of which "In the Hall of the Mountain King" is a part. I grew up with that movie as well.

[@lindsyfish6704]

Me, who earned an English lit degree and an amateur historian specializing in pre-800CE European textiles: it boggles my mind how precise people can get with dates in some fields. For Iron-Age European textiles, getting within 50 years is basically witchcraft. And here we are with with a precise year! I love it.

[@Hunt98cz]

Simon needs a channel where he reads fairly tales and other stories

[@Rachel_M_]

Good idea. 👍 I miss Jackanory from the old times

[@kristiskinner6485]

The original horrible dark ones

[@trishapellis]

The only one of his channels that his children will be able to watch

[@mattball420]

Its fairly tale, not quite, but pretty much

[@--enyo--]

Pitch some suggestions to Decoding The Unknown. Maybe Ilze could do a fairytale version of Kevin’s ‘Mysteries of the Internet’ series where Simon has to guess which are actual old fairy tales and which are just made up.

[@RabbitTeaPot]

I always loved this story as a kid & I’ve heard the version involving the lame child but I always remember reading a “fuller version” at my grandmother’s house. One most haven’t heard of & I don’t know of it’s origins, she’s literally 100 years old & in a home & I’m almost 40 so it was a long, long, long time ago I read this book. In that version (a collection of fairy tales & version that I assume was either hers as a child or one of her step children’s or children’s) after the children went into a cave they lived in a waking sleep, I’m guessing a coma but one child remains awake. This child either tricks the piper to realise him/her or the piper can’t stand dealing with the child lol either way they’re allowed back through the mountain. Now, although it seems to the child it’s only been a day or two when they return to the hamlet they discover it’s been a hundred years and even though their parents have died & new people have moved in to populate the hamlet…none of them dare have children because of what happened. So this kid rocks up, everyone freaks out & the story ends with the child being taken in by an elderly couple or something. It’s been a long ,long time since I read it but I remember being terrified lol but also mesmerised by the story & the accompanying illustrations.

[@RufusFirefly-nr2fk]

As a testimony to how deeply this story is ingrained in our culture -- not only in Europe, but here in America -- note this: In 1966, Crispian St. Peters released a song called "I'm the Pied Piper." (It's a catchy little number, look it up.) It was a pretty big hit, charting in the Top 10 here and in other countries, and I'm sure everyone I knew heard it. And I can't remember anyone having to ask, "What's a Pied Piper?"

[@andreacook7431]

And there's a Flash character called Pied Piper, who can control things through sonics, and, again, no one had to have that explained.

[@ZijnShayatanica]

Yup, I remember growing up in America, hearing about the Pied Piper. It was used as a cautionary tale about being killed by strange adults who lured children w/ candy, puppies, toys, etc.

[@rosestanley9606]

i heared the song only a few days ago bit with juinita coco from the australian tv show that ran from 1971 to 1988 young talent time so i had to look up crispian's version parts of the song is now stuck in my head

[@BradBrassman]

Diddnt know that made it to America as he was an English Folk Singer and I remembe this coming out when I was a kid.

[@RobertTrey-ov1lz]

R Kelly calls himself the Pied Piper and look at him now

[@Miss_Camel]

I love when KZbin isn’t a dick to me with the algorithm and actually finds me videos pertaining to my interests (in this case, mythology, folklore, and fables…oh my!), and this is fantastically well done!! I could SWEAR this guy seems so similar to that BBC reporter that the whole internet agrees is the best interviewer (aside from hot ones, obviously). I haven’t slept in days, so I could be hallucinating this video altogether, but am I wrong??

[@yeseniaarredondo4016]

I just got the chills from listening to you. Amazing narration. Thanks.

[@GrievousReborn]

There is this creepy Czech stop-motion animated adaptation of the Pied Piper from 1986 where in revenge he turns the town's folks into rats and leads them into the river

[@karenbutcher1240]

Rats can swim.

[@phillawrence5148]

I was just thinking about that, it creeped me the hell out as a kid. It was the faces and the weird motions.

[@als3022]

On this it depends on the speed of the river. You can swim, but it the water is roaring and going into rapids it doesn't matter.

[@GrievousReborn]

@@karenbutcher1240 I didn't make the movie did I

[@victor9sur768]

I used to live in Hameln as an army brat, when I moved back to the UK and said to people that I lived in the pied Piper town they didn't believe that it was a real place until I pointed it out on a map

[@mothman-jz8ug]

Any reference to The Pied Piper never fails to remind me of Curly Howard. In one of the Three Stooges shorts (Termites of 1938), Moe wanted a mouse. Curly said it was a cinch, and pulled out a copy of The Pied Piper and said he'd been reading up on it. He said if that guy could do it pie eyed, he knew he could do it stone cold sober.

[@Yosenku]

I always had a theory that the piper actually got rid of the rats wasn't paid so he poisoned the children by giving them food that had the same poison as he fed the rats.

[@RaynmanPlays]

This makes sense.

[@thepastmaster5643]

In the story I heard as a child he drowned the rats and when the town refused to pay him, he drowned the children as punishment for not being paid what he was promised.

[@iamnotafraid]

Anybody else nearly have a stroke trying to read this?

[@mattball420]

​@@iamnotafraidamature

[@iamnotafraid]

@@mattball420 Amateur

[@jamesmcglew9806]

That this likely happened makes it even worse. Kudos to the writer and Simon’s delivery- more like this please

[@mikebuchanan1119]

This guy is that friend of a friend, that shows up at the party and completely destroys the vibe.

[@shroomyk]

I love the Grimms' fairy tales. I took a whole class on them in college and visited Hanau where they were from. Folklore is so interesting to me, but especially the classic German tales.

[@ignitionfrn2223]

2:40 - Chapter 1 - The story 8:05 - Chapter 2 - The historical record 10:40 - Chapter 3 - So what actually happened

[@Catseye189]

Thank you

[@recalcitrantprophet9573]

I'll tell you what happened, if you pay me.

[@deonellis8577]

Ich bin einen Hamelner... I am an inhabitant of Hamel(i)n. (Hameln in German). I live in the house that used to belong to the historical town mayor. I live 50m away from the church you mentioned (and briefly showed) where the stained glass window depicting the piper and children is installed. The modern concensus among the local inhabitants: The rats were led to drown in the Weser (the river to the west of the old town - 130m away from my house). The children were led eastward, down Bungelosenstrasse (literally "the street without drums"). They were following a man playing a pipe or flute; never to be seen again. Today, most people in the town agree - this entire "fairytale" is most probably the connection point between 3 or 4 different historical incidences (with facts coming from all 3 or 4 incidences) all rolled into one.

[@donaldwatson7698]

So many questions come to mind like "If a piper took kids to a mountain, then what mountain? Why is it never named in specific?" I've lived nearly all my life in the same region and know the names of all prominent mountains within a day's walk. I imagine the folk of Hamelin would have a similar knowledge of their surroundings. If the children were taken by force, how were they not retrieved? I could see sneaking them away during church services, but I can't imagine parents not furiously pursuing. How were they really taken (if so)? Not a magic flute. For one man it would be a bit like herding cats, again slowing their march. These and other questions have me believing the theory that young citizens voluntarily left. Even the town record says "since the day our children left" not "were taken". While I realize the original German might not have that precision, the English translation does seem to lean towards something other than kidnapping.

[@aragorn1780]

if I remember, some versions of the story the parents are frozen, either in fear, shock, or the magic of the Piper, so they are unable to pursue him (granted I believe this is a later development in an attempt to explain the plot hole)

[@richardtherichard26]

And I lived around mountains my whole life and don’t know the names of ANY of them bc I don’t care… not everyone is obsessed with the mountains surrounding their home. Why the fuck would a normal person give a shit about something that matters SO little? Something that makes such a NON impact on their life? 😂😂🤡🤡🤡

[@3_up_moon]

I saw a story where they did DNA and found DNA in graves at a location that was related to the people of the original city in a story. I'm not sure if that was this story though.

[@larseickstaedt]

See Robert Browning: However, he turned from South to West, And to Koppelberg Hill his steps addressed. It's the Koppenberg/Calvarienberg, now called Ith near Coppenbrügge, 10 km from Hamlin

[@tomhenry897]

Old growth woods Dark and scary Full of theives Honest people didn’t enter

[@deangajraj]

The Pied Piper tale is a testament to our quest to find truth in folklore. It prompts us to explore beyond the superficial, where metaphor often masks historical events, and reminds us that childhood is a fleeting thing. It reminds us of the harsh reality of our past, no matter how enchanted it may be.

[@ddstinger8480]

whoa

[@JohnJohnson-fr5cx]

😲

[@lw1star]

🙄🤔

[@richardtherichard26]

No it reminds us that every ass hat on the internet thinks they’re some sort of philosopher when in reality they have NOTHING of substance to say. 🤡🤡🤡🤡

[@Arcessitor]

Do you write sales copies for a living?

[@bicyclist2]

I remember hearing this story from my childhood. I watched an interesting TV documentary about this many years ago. There were some audio engineers or scientists who were studying this. They eventually found the correct notes or frequency and many rats started coming into the walls. They discovered that the rats would always appear and follow the sound to it's source when ever the music was playing. Thank you.

[@jasonbender2459]

100% bullshit

[@inuhundchien6041]

Huh, they need to make this commercially.

[@melkiorwiseman5234]

@@inuhundchien6041 In general, people want to repel rats, not attract them. Although perhaps attracting them to a trap of some description would be useful.

[@jasonbender2459]

@@melkiorwiseman5234 attracting: that is what cheese is for you goof. repelling: get a cat

[@jasonbender2459]

@@inuhundchien6041 they should market a device that is 100 bs? what a scumbag move

[@AsagaoSTL]

I knew a girl in high school whose first and middle names were Piper Hamlin. I guess her parents didn’t do their research.

[@christopherjones8448]

Sounds more like they did to me

[@RangaCodes]

Guaranteed they knew the story.... One of mine has that middle name...

[@paulinelarson465]

I have a granddaughter whose name was first intended to be "Annabelle Leigh". D-I-L consulted her mother and me, to make sure there were no "oddities" associated with it ( we have a weird surname). I mentioned Poe, - who she had not heard of (sigh), my son knew many of his works, but not that poem. Cancelled that idea and changed to "Hannah Leigh" without asking me. They GOOGLED that and went with it. When she was born and I was called, I did NOT giggle at her name. My older sons roared ! "PUFF The Magic Dragon" ! The Dad - my youngest, said "Huh?" (sigh). As the older brothers said, if the parents don't recognize that reference, it's probably OK. Or, everyone can laugh about it later. Edit: Thankful she is not Annabelle Leigh. Poe's "Annabel Lee" is really sort of creepy ! A love story but - really macabre.

[@xhagast]

Maybe wistful thinking?

[@zimriel]

@@paulinelarson465 Try 'Ulalume'.

[@jwalster9412]

I remember hereing like 20 different storys of this same one years back in primary school. One of which lead me down the terrifying realization that the story might not have always been about rats.

[@chadkyle9563]

Simon, something about your voice and videos is so soothing. You're the only channel I can watch while studying. I think I'm subscribed to all your channels.

[@stuff___idontknow2610]

I personally think he may have lead the children into a cave and then destroyed the exit to the cave thus sealing the 130 children into the mountain

[@SuperKendoman]

That's so morbid, killing off hundreds of kids because a debt wasn't paid. A psychopathic pied piper

[@tiii4017]

@@SuperKendoman well they should've paid tbh, there was no moral like what we have in 1200s 🤷

[@wren_.]

One of my theories is that because “children of Hamlin” didn’t have to mean specifically kids at that time, 130 people, not just children, left the town for a better one. who knows, they could’ve also been following a piper who convinced them that the town was not worth staying in.

[@derrickray5464]

See, that's what I thought too. Still, a dastardly deed.

[@freelance1213]

There was a movie, Pied Piper of Hamelin (1957), that I think did that. If I remember, there was a young crippled boy that couldn't keep up with the others and the mountain closed up before he could follow the rest of the children.

[@pirobot668beta]

In my grandma's version, the Pipers musical instrument was actually an opium pipe! He got the kids strung out, they end up following him out of town and into involuntary servitude.

[@dominushydra]

Did he get the rats high too?

[@inactivetitan8629]

​@@dominushydrasilence, germ

[@ChA0s_AgeNt]

Grammy might've had a bit of a habit...

[@Tester-sh1mn]

@@inactivetitan8629 *wyrm

[@tomhenry897]

Common to sell kids then if broke or their parents died

[@ayhamshaheed7740]

I love seeing all the different theories in the comments it’s so cool. Hopefully we find out the exact truth some day

[@herseem]

A truly excellent analysis for a 16 minute video. Really points to some of the issues with understanding history, especially relating to the cultural meaning of terms and how they change over time - just consider the term 'bastard' for example. When I was 11 years old, this meant someone whose parents were not married. Now it means a very mean, selfiish person, and that's in less than one lifetime. Just consider the implications of interpreting history in years well before dictionaries. And of course, this channel has high quality comments that are well worth reading.

[@HamelinsPiedPiper]

Spot on. (see my comment) ;)

[@scifino1]

Nice video! If you're looking for another fairy tale, that might actually be a true legend, you already mentioned one in the beginning: Snow White. In the German text, Snow White is sent "zu den sieben Zwergen, hinter den sieben Bergen" ("to the seven dwarfs, behind the seven mountains"). There actually is a mountain range called "das Siebengebirge", which is also referred to as "die Sieben Berge" ("the Seven Mountains"). North of these mountains, there are centuries old coal mines. Seen from the South, that could be the place that Snow White is sent to. There have been various young women of noble descent from Southern Germany, who were sent behind that mountain range by their parents. The descriptions of some of these actually match Snow White's description pretty well.

[@MirrorscapeDC]

It is also worth noting that the Brothers Grim were collecting their fairy tales during the time when Europe's use of child miners, mostly for coal, was at its height including in germany and a relative of mine from that area tells me that in the region it is considered common knowledge that the dwarves are indeed meant to represent children

[@Midorikonokami]

I heard a different version. In mine it is not specified the mayor's daughter was there, but the survivor was a lame child who was not able to keep up, and told the adults how the music promised him the most beautiful place, with all the best food and clothing, warmth and comfort... until the rock closed onto his fellow children up ahead, the music stopped, and the child came back to himself, cold and alone miles from town.

[@thomyoutube3478]

Brilliant. Wish i could upvote this one x100. Great content.

[@clogs4956]

The Browning poem is my favourite version. That refers to the children being lured off or captured (trammeled) to live in Transylvania.

[@isthison2875]

The version in my Reader's Digest 'The World's Best Fairy Tales',1967, says that around 150 years later, when all the parents and siblings of the missing 130 children were dead, 3 merchants from Bremen came to Hamelin with news of a Transylvanian town where the folks spoke German and not Hungarian. Charles Marelles, Andrew Lang Collection

[@clogs4956]

@@isthison2875 I think it's the oldest and most likely explanation. Have you read Andrew Lang?

[@isthison2875]

I've not read any Lang, yet. The short Bio in the book I referenced says he had successful 40-year literary career that included poetry and novels but list none of his work. It quotes Lang's friend James M. Barrie as saying about him "There was a touch of the elf about him".

[@mimisor66]

The kings of Hungary settled German colonists in Transylvania, to help defend agains the Tatars. Transylvania is called in German Siebenburgen, the land of the seven towns. The German settlers set up these 7 towns.

[@Almugavar]

​@@mimisor66 ...where approximately 11,000 of thier descendents remain, an ethnic minority who speak a unique endangered dialect known as (strangely enough) Transylvanian Saxon.

[@mikesrandomchannel]

I love the Grimm Sleeping Beauty (correction: Snow White, thank you @aniisaweirdo),in which the dwarves get so tired of carting her inert body around the prince‘s castle that they punch her in the back, thus causing the piece of apple to fall from her mouth and then she wakes up. No romantic kissing awake, sadly, just a slap-up feast afterwards 😅

[@whitedragoness23]

Why punch her in the back? If they all believe she was a corpse then what’s that gonna do? Also why not just dump her body and run? Yes it’s the prince who had her but ask him to entomb her in glass for him to share at her all day

[@anniej844]

That’s SnowWhite, not Sleeping Beauty

[@mikesrandomchannel]

@@anniej844 Corrected, I am always mixing those two up. Too many princesses asleep…

[@55tranquility]

In one of the earliest versions it was the Princes servants who punched her in the the back. As the prince had come across her, and was so besotted he took her back to his home and spent every minute with her - and his servants got sick of lugging the coffin about everywhere. Oh and it wasn't her step mother it was her real mother, who wanted to kill her daughter and eat her liver and lungs ... yeah. Also Snow White seven years old when she eats the poisoned apple and it is never stated how long she sleeps for or if she ages, so ... yeah. The Grimms modified it to 14 , which is still very shady. Even darker is the origins of sleeping beauty are seen in an Italian version from 1634 called details: “Sun, Moon, and Talia". In this version the King The distraught king lays her beautiful body in a country manor and abandons the house forever. Years pass before a king from a neighboring land is hunting in the woods and finds Talia. Struck by her beauty, he tries to wake her. When that fails, he finds her so stunning that its not just a kiss...and she is dead, because well she was just so stunning he did the unthinkable with a corpse ... and then went home... it gets darker though. Nine months later, Talia gives birth to twins-Sun and Moon-and some fairies place the babies on her breast to suckle. When one of the babies sucks the flax splinter out of her finger, Talia awakes from death! Talia and company hang out in the manor until the king who impregnated her returns. Mr. corpse defiler is overjoyed to discover his new family and tells Talia about what he did. The king then returns to his wife .. of course he does. His wife suspects that her husband is having an affair out in the woods instead of hunting as he claims. When she finds out about Talia, she sends a messenger on the sly to have the children brought to their sire the king. Talia, who has no clue what’s going on, happily sends the kids to visit Dad. The queen orders the cook to roast the children up and serve them as dinner to their father. Thankfully the cook and his wife hide the kids and serve the king lamb instead. Next the queen sends for Talia and accuses her of man stealing. When Talia explains that um-the guy raped me in my sleep and I didn’t know he was married, the queen won’t listen. When she commands Talia to be thrown into a fire, Talia stalls for time by offering to take off her clothes (can’t make this stuff up, people). The greedy queen agrees since she wants Talia’s fine jewel-encrusted garments. So Talia strips piece by piece, making a big show of screaming until the king finally arrives on scene. When he demands what is going on, the queen announces that she fed him his bastard children. In a rage, the king throws his wife and all her accomplices into the fire they made up for Talia. Before the cook can be burned, he produces Sun and Moon, who he saved. Everyone rejoices that the children are alive, and the king marries Talia. So you have r@pe, necrofilia - The Grimms and Perrault specify that Sleeping Beauty is asleep, but Basile calls her dead. Which adds another level horror.

[@kddicks5115]

I have a book of original Grimm fairytales, and they can be HORRIFYING!! I couldn't imagine telling them to CHILDREN!! The background on how the brothers gathered together these tales is pretty amazing. I'm so glad they did, or we'd only have Uncle Walt's interpretations!! Thanks for another winner, Simon!!✌️❤️🙂

[@Lunch2391]

I grew up with them and they aren't worse than some stuff you see on TV/the internet

[@duanesamuelson2256]

Different era..people didn't have time to watch and entertain kids 24/7. The stories were told to scare the hell out of kids for dangerous places..when they got older and understood the stories were just stories they were also old enough to understand the real dangers. We still do similar things today "Stanger Danger" as one example..

[@matildarose]

Keep in mind, they weren't really originally meant for children exclusively. Those were adaptations of spoken word stories, which often could change depending on what area/settlement/culture/person/etc there were. These were takes you told to entertain to a whole room, blood, guts, and all, long before the modern concept of a childhood was a thing.

[@MsMorri]

I was told them in first grade and I was fine.

[@Loralanthalas]

The stories had choice and accountability - you don't find that in stories anymore. Ariel fucked up: we all just pretend the happy ending is better because we don't want to cry for an hour when our favorite character dies.

[@jesseeheilbronn4958]

The podcast "Our Fake History" has a great episode on the Pied Piper. He breaks down all the most well-known theories and facts to get to the bottom of the story.

[@benjaminkirchner8187]

Thanks for making a Video about this subject. Even if I grew up with the story of "Der Rattenfänger von Hameln" I Was jever informend about the "history" behind it. Great Job as always thank you very much!

[@LemurDreamer87]

So, the most supported of the main theories is "A bunch of people moved"? That's pretty light, especially for this channel!

[@jancerny8109]

“This tune could not be heard by anybody in the town. The rats, however…” Could this musician have hit upon the concept of ultrasound as a rodent remedy centuries ahead of his time? Also, as far as the sponsor goes: beware of anything sweetened with allulose. It’s used as a sugar substitute because your body doesn’t metabolize it, but the same attribute means your digestive tract will squirt the product out quickly.

[@anilin6353]

Dog whistles are just whistles afterall it isn't impossible that someone could have made one at the time

[@evelynhester989]

@@anilin6353 i

[@FartPanther]

Also, children can hear ultrasonic much better (and are also repulsed by it)

[@opymcgillicuttysasmrmpitof3497]

Poop cereal. Fun

[@markiobook8639]

possibly, we knew about cat and dog whistles.

[@velvetbees]

Thank you for this fascinating episode. It's well done, and the illustrations are really pretty, which makes it a bit easier to listen such a dark story.

[@whigrose9753]

There's a guy on here that does a lot of videos on fairytales. I found the most convincing theory to be the one that suggested it wasn't young kids but a younger generation who left for better opportunities elsewhere. Glad to see you mentioned this too. Much nicer to think of this than death too.

[@laura121684]

You talking about Jon Solo?

[@daegudiva]

BRAVO! Fantastic storytelling!

[@barbararoca6847]

Wow! This was fascinating. I really enjoyed this!

[@kevinfoster1138]

I've been to Hamlin Germany they have a beautiful large clock tower where the story plays out. I was only 11 or 12 years old but it was beautiful. The funniest thing was my grandma getting hit-on by 2 young men and my mom and aunt kind of being jealous. Ah good times on my European vacation.

[@adeletaylor6143]

He gets so excited about the magic spoon ones

[@incredibleflameboy]

Im in the middle of building a Pied Piper magic the gathering deck for my daughter right now. Outside of the basic story i cant remember what happens in the fairy tale so this is an awesome find. Im normally a casual criminalist viewer then binge into the shadows every once in a while.

[@phillawrence5148]

This story has always creeped me out. Would love to know what really happened. We can only speculate.

[@stigmaoftherose]

Immagine spending $30 for two to three bowels of cereal. Its verry telling that you can save 5 whole dollars off a box and they can still make profit.

[@tinkerstrade3553]

Overpricing is the American Way. "Buy cheap, sell high, and the Devil takes the hindquarters."🤣

[@adamdaley8090]

*bowls. Bowels is its final destination. 😊

[@hallstein6025]

@@adamdaley8090 I MEAN, it isnt entirely false is then, is it?

[@tinkerstrade3553]

@@adamdaley8090 I saw that myself, but there was just something so fitting, and Freudian, that I couldn't condemn it.🤣

[@SamVilain]

It’s called a loss leader. They don’t need to make any money if they’ve put the cereal on your table as a taste test.

[@tzimisce1753]

I love your videos. Amazing editing, amazing content, amazing story-telling, the whole thing is perfect.

[@daniellewillis2767]

I just realized you actually say this as well. Great minds think alike; This sounds like something that took place during the Children's Crusade...Im thinking the children were led or tricked into a cave where they were taken away by slavers. Im thinking the Piper was a charismatic older teen enticing others to the Crusades... Also, according to the famous poem by Shelley, descendants of the children were discovered in Transylvania or somewhere in Romania, in a sequestered community that still spoke perfect German..

[@jamesb4789]

A simpler explanation is the city of Hamlin was heavily in debt and under threat of extinction if the did not pay, which happened. Slavery was very common and it was common to sell children to pay off debts. They may have offered the children as payment. It is simpler and far more likely in that time. No one would have noted 130 people moving to Hungaria or elsewhere. But selling 130 of the town's children would have left scars and been burned into the town's collective memory. That makes sense.

[@daniellewillis2767]

@jamesb4789 Yes but the Children's Crusaders had a tendency to be captured by slavers and sold off as catamites....

[@digglyda]

I am 52 now. I remember doing a production of the pied piper story when I was at infant school about 5 years old ...I was the lame boy who survived because he couldn't keep up with the others !

[@asmithgames5926]

P Diddy takes a time machine to 1284 😂

[@emmettrice8700]

Just in case anyone is wondering, it’s $40 for a box of that magic spoon cereal. That’s insane

[@kasahadragon9499]

Shoot, I looked it up in case you'd done a typo and yep 4 boxes for $40 😮

[@vickibart3491]

I mean, here in Australia a box of cereal is close to $10 so not that crazy really (sadly)

[@kasahadragon9499]

@@vickibart3491 A big family box of a meusli (granola) or regular special diet like gluten free cereal might be $8 pr $9 in AUD (regular price) but these 4 for $40 are worth $58.64 in AUD. Which would make them just under $16 AUD a box and they are only the small size box.

[@vickibart3491]

@@kasahadragon9499 imagine if....prices differed based on where in a country you are. Shocking, I know. Should see remote communities, some of them would be thinking $40 for one box was a bargain. But good on you for having time to try and prove an internet stranger wrong 😂

[@SuperSpecies]

@@vickibart3491 imagine missing the point of everything

[@ashb7846]

The way he said the final line in this video gave me goosebumps. 🥶

[@benjaminhughes2226]

I can hear Indiana Jones horrified as he translates.... "Children... They stole our Children"

[@jacksonnn1661]

Simon could you do an episode about cautionary tales. Its similar to the pied piper I guess but its a collection of short stories to terrify children into behaving. There was a kid who got eaten by a lion and another who ate string and cut their insides up. My grandmother got it for me when I was 6... quality present 😂

[@DSP16569]

There is the Theory that Snow-White is based on a mix of two real-live stories of the past. Only Theories.

[@JamiesonHorton]

Great video! This is great timing... I'm currently working on a stage adaptation of this fairy tale.

[@kylefarr3655]

How has this NOT been made into a horror movie yet?

[@DSP16569]

It' not written by Steven King 🙂

[@terywetherlow7970]

I was thinking Jimmy Saville. Ugh.

[@HamelinsPiedPiper]

You asked for it, you got it - kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJvck5R7gJipe7M

[@jessaw8160]

This is very interesting. The only problem I have with the idea that the fairy tale is derived from immigration out of the town is why it would be so memorable 100 years later? I get that it could have really strained the local economy, especially depending on the over all size of the town, but it still doesn't seem like something that would be documented with the level of dread that it seems to have been written in. Either way, this was a very cool video.

[@kizmo2317]

Same here. An economic exodus from an area is not at all uncommon even today, and certainly not something that would be memorialized in stone like that 100 years later.

[@eedragonr]

It really sounds like death and cultural loss even if they migrated toward the "freedom" of yeomanry, craftsmanship and traders guilds. Many of them were originally free people, perhaps not free from poverty, but others were coming from the feudal lands of the knights. Of course it is a big difference between migrating for development opportunity and prosperity, seen as economic and social progress, and migrating because of poverty, letting behind a (relatively) peaceful place of love for deliberately fighting new dangers. It is a common neurotic fracture between the reason and the feelings. The truth is that I still know Germans, having today mixed families, who moved to the USA for the "excellent opportunities for the future of their children" and their children are unhappy with leaving Europe and their families, they want to return "to Germany and their grandparents", they can't rationally realize the future better chances and are even developing depression due to the separation from the grandparents and the original culture.

[@DSP16569]

Maybe a forced migration?- Peasants often where landlocked (Need the approvement from their local ruler to move). On the other hand the lokal Ruler could sell and force peope to leave his "reign". Or they migrated because of need and then the Hamelin-People never got a sign of surviving later on - except rumours that they all died.

[@ayishas4385]

Yeah, I don't buy it either. It would've had to be something really shocking or terrible to be remembered on its 100th anniversary. 100 years would be a long time to still have PTSD over a 130 people who moved away, but it's not very long - only one memory away - if there was something haunting or tragic. In other words, they wouldn't have remembered a minor emigration, but they WOULD have remembered even one child who went mysteriously missing from their town, and it hadn't been long enough for rumour to have turned that into 130 children unless there really were some number approaching that. Many people alive 100 years later would've personally known the parents of the children who "left," because, although average life expectancy was shorter (b/c of infant & child mortality), plenty of people lived into their 70s or 80s or beyond. It's ironic that he mentions the "Children's Crusade," because for years it was taught in elementary school as a real event, and then some literalist and unimaginative historians were like, "That couldn't possibly be true," and came up with a properly boring explanation, namely 1. No Crusade happened at all 2. If something like it happened, they weren't really "children" but adults, and 3. It was all a metaphor for something else. For decades, history books in school said it was all made up, including the one I had in middle school in the 90s. Then, more recent research shows that 1. It did indeed happen, 2. There were indeed thousands of children who went on the Crusade, and were all enslaved or killed, and 3. Rather than a metaphor, this was a story so iconic in its tragedy that the horror of the reality survived and was passed down in oral tradition and literature for centuries. So, it's funny that he mentions the Children's Crusade without apparent intention of being ironic, and then goes on to explain this theory of emigration as the most credible . . . which theory says, "these weren't children - they must have been adults, and it must've just been a metaphor for a migration." That's the exact same attitude that couldn't believe the Children's Crusade story, either, and had to explain it away. I object on principle! Historians who want to explain history entirely in terms of economics, seem to have no comprehension of what stories make an impact on a people and get passed on. I'm sorry, you don't get that sort of reaction over a bunch of people moving away. And if we're going to go all literal on the story, what's believable in having 130 adults all leave to move somewhere else on a festival day in June? But these literalist historians, who probably accept today's lurid headlines as true, want to prove that nothing dramatic ever happened in history. Nowadays, in our enlightened age of safety and civilisation, there are millions of people in slavery, including millions of children being sold for sex and organ harvesting. And that, despite a lot of laws and law enforcement that were not available to these people at the time. Earlier in the 13th century, thousands of children disappeared on the "Children's Crusade," and were enslaved - we're pretty sure that really happened, and the story survived centuries and centuries of retelling - yet we're supposed to believe that the most viable explanation of this story of the Pied Piper, similar in many points to the Children's Crusade though smaller in scale, is a metaphor for . . . people moving away from home to get better jobs?!! Wow. I don't presume to know what happened to these 130 children, but I think we might try having the humility to entertain the idea that they really were children, and they really did "leave" -- either to some tragic accident like a mudslide on the mountain, or to some nasty virus that wiped out the child population, or lured away by some creepy piper who'd groomed them, to be caught by a lurking band of slave traders and taken off without a trace.

[@HamelinsPiedPiper]

Wisely said!

[@kl0wnkiller912]

I grew up on Mother Goose and Grimm Fairy Tales. I still have a distant memory of my grandmother reading me stories from Childcraft Books before bedtime in their huge, rambling farmhouse in Michigan when we would go up there to visit. All long gone now except in my memory...

[@graemewilson7975]

Great insight into creepy fairytale, made creepier by its ambiguous outcome, or versions Brilliantly told

[@davidt3563]

I hated fairy tales as a kid, but if someone would have read me the real ones they are based off of I would have LOVED them.

[@Thoralmir]

So the Pied Piper was an agent of Transylvanian vampires!

[@nbarnes6225]

Well, you got the definition of folktales mostly correct. However, this story would tend to be classified as a legend if it's given a specific place and date. Folktales don't have a knowable time and place--they take place "long ago" in "a land far away." Also, when they are shared, both the teller and the audience know the story is not true. Legends, however, are told in a knowable time and place. They also can be supernatural or non-supernatural, so a magic pipe is not an issue. Legends are also believed to be true or at least believed to be possibly true by the teller and the audience. There's a lot more involved in the theories, but those are the basics.

[@nbarnes6225]

*side note: The Brothers Grimm cannot be trusted to be "authentic" or "original." They changed and embellished their work according to how well they sold. It's entirely possible the story existed prior to what happened in Hamelin and they simply attached the story to it. (Like the addition of rats in later stories.)

[@TheOriginalGR8Bob]

Legends are exaggerations that can only be held by existing historical figures.

[@TheOriginalGR8Bob]

@dalebob9364 That's just the world wide web in general.

[@pourpeopledrinks]

Surely not...? Fairytales, yes. Folk tales are regionally specific and often have a timed element. They ARE often believed, or were believed in the past, though often embellished. Fairytales are not. Also, the distinction IMO was more down to the oral vs written nature of the work in question.

[@nbarnes6225]

@@pourpeopledrinks I'm an academic folklorist. I'm sure. Also, a "fairytale" is simply a folktale that involves fairies. Folktale is a specific type of narrative that is distinct from other narratives like myths, legends, and personal experience narratives. These distinctions are based on belief, setting, and characters, among other more nuanced differences as you break each category down further. Oral vs written has nothing to do with it.