The Hunt for Gollum

[@adarkstarz]

Gollum was threatened with the torture of playing the new game "The Lord of the Rings: Gollum". He quickly confessed.

[@stevedenis8292]

With the treat of forcing him to watch the Amazon rings of power. Such acts of cruelty would have broken Golam.

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

And then he played, 'Return to Moria,' and died of boredom.

[@thetommytrontommyrose6497]

I almost forgot about that game

[@Lawrence_Talbot]

“We hates it, we HATES it!!!”

[@insensitive919]

It's a shame about that studio, as I really enjoyed the Deponia games. But if you listen to the in-game commentary, you'll see what an annoying and arrogant man the lead dev was. There were some talented people there, but 99% of their experience was with 2D adventure games.

[@t.c.bramblett617]

"Tharanduil never was very good at keeping prisoners" lolol his failures literally defined both the Hobbit and LOTR plots! Never thought of that until now

[@Crafty_Spirit]

Actually it's a funny but unfair joke because Gollum received unforseen help for his escape (as did the dwarves)

[@WizardReel]

Is the context for making this new film, taken from both the Hobbit and LOTR books? I haven't read them in a really long time.

[@t.c.bramblett617]

@@WizardReel they have the rights to the Appendices in LOTR, not the Silmarillion or anything else. They can also take from Hobbit and LOTR I believe but the main source is the additional material included in LOTR.

[@evekurocieru]

Thranduil was just drunk and easily annoyed, I don't think he really had his heart too set on keeping whoever he threw in the dungeon

[@phatnana2379]

The passage about Gollum creeping in dens to find young and through windows to find cradles is one of my favorite passages in all of Tolkien's work. Genuinely scary stuff

[@divermike8943]

Why did Gollem sneak thru windows to find cradles? Food?

[@phatnana2379]

@@divermike8943 that's the implication. It's noted that it's only rumors. Rumors in the forest of "a ghost that drinks blood." It's one of my favorite chapters in the trilogy

[@sourisvoleur4854]

"Thranduil never was very good at keeping prisoners." That made me laugh out loud.

[@clobberelladoesntreadcomme9920]

I slightly disagree that Arragorn and Gandalf's treatment of Gollum shows the imperfections of their character. I think it's meant to show just how repulsive Gollum is, that he could put these two really patient characters out of patience, thereby highlighting how truly sterling of a character Frodo must have had.

[@dev2410]

I think I understand what you mean Gollum was an utterly detestable creature what with stealing babies and all and I admire Gandalf and Aragorn for their restraint and how well they treated Gollum because I suspect that I would be far nastier to Golem

[@nigelis2345]

Also they were dealing with the more detestable Gollum persona rather than the more pleasent Smeagol persona.

[@Croyles]

"Can you give it to them Frodo?" Does ring a bit hollow, however.

[@Dr_Cole]

Your ending was perfect. Reminding us that, though not perfect, they both rejected the ring when offered. And, though good, this story shows that they are not perfect. Let all of us remember that when we falter, we are not forever marred or that being less than perfect takes us forever away from our own identity of ourselves.

[@expred]

Thank you, this stranger from the cold North (FInland) needed this reminder right now. Trying to get back on track after some mistakes, and it is good to be reminded we are not "forever marred" as you and the professor himself would have put it. That gives motivation and healing. :) I wish you good things and a nice day.

[@luudest]

It's crazy to think that such a valiant fighter and leader as Aragorn gave up almost 20 years for the search of Gollum. But it was not in vain.

[@keinbockaufillusionen464]

Niiiiice such perfect timing. I just made me a nice late night snack and am now ready to enjoy some of my favourite entertainment. Thank you Robert, for always coming in clutch

[@JamesPerkins]

elevenses?

[@Cailus3542]

Just imagine Gandalf's frustration when he finally remembered that the One Ring had no gem, and could be identified by fire. All of Middle-earth must've heard that facepalm.

[@timothyheimbach3260]

He didn't necessarily know. He found that research out in Gondor.

[@adarkstarz]

the "minor" rings had no gem. Gandalf thought it was one of the those since the "major" rings were pretty much accounted for (other than the ONE)

[@Eagle-eye-pie]

He should have spoken to Elrond.

[@JamesPerkins]

And he said in Noldorin, "D'oh"

[@democrrrracymanifest]

“Whereas Gandalf kinda forgot about the black fleet and Sauron’s forces…”

[@darkprince3794]

Let's not feel sorry for how they treated Gollum. Man was creeping through windows, snatching babies.

[@cloudkitt]

I remember that song

[@toferg.8264]

IKR!

[@timelordvictorious]

Gross so the guy was eating babies

[@jamiehughes5573]

Man's gotta eat, just happens to be easy prey

[@Nathan-vt1jz]

Agreed.

[@rugustus4300]

I already forgot about this upcoming movie and I’m a huge Lotr fan…

[@GeoEstes]

I didn't even know about it, so it's a good heads up for me.

[@maksphoto78]

I wonder how much will they "borrow" from the fan movie by the same name.

[@Marcotonio]

Hard to stay excited after so many blunders. Looking forward to the Rohan anime, but this one? Only if I don't read complaints about uncalled for "creative" liberties.

[@lProN00bl]

Been more excited for the Rohirrim movie personally.

[@rugustus4300]

@@lProN00bl tbh, the story seems very generic like every other girl power movie these days. Philippa Boyens have been hanging out with too many Hollywood people by the sounds of it. My expectations are low for that one too.

[@tornari]

I vote for Robert to record an audio book of LOTR

[@Hawkeye91]

The audio books were done by Andy serkis, gollums voice actor and he did amazing. I listened to The silmarillian the hobbit and 3 lotr books. He did more than those too.

[@Nathan-vt1jz]

Excellent work. I wish the people working on the newer movies/TV shows would give Tolkien’s works the same respect and attention to detail.

[@NB4fun]

Amazing video as always Robert - I’ve been listening to the audiobooks again and I would love to see a video on how powerful is Shadowfax. He clearly is more magical than a normal horse so I think it would be cool to see!

[@gantaroo3140]

He must be re recording it or my memory is wrong, i swear it existed in his catalog

[@NB4fun]

@@gantaroo3140 I don’t remember a video on shadowfax but still you might be right. I wish Robert would leave his old versions up until the updated ones were ready. My favorite video (Gollum, a Character Study) is stuck in the void until he re-records it :(

[@Beregorn88]

the fascinating thing to me is how the hell they plan to make a film out of it...

[@dlxmarks]

It's going to be majority new material created by Jackson, Walsh, and Boyens and I have never liked any of the ideas they have added to Tolkien's work.

[@EdMcF1]

By stitching together 135 minutes of footage. No need for a plot, realism or anything resembling a compelling tale..

[@karlsweeney2328]

Rambo, but Gollum

[@thekiss2083]

Stay strong, Viggo! Resist the dump truck full of money....

[@ghostdreamer7272]

Honestly it has a strong beginning, middle, and end. With key and compelling characters that bridge LOTR and the Hobbit.

[@etpc2023]

I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end, and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many, yours not least -Gandalf the Grey

[@kevinstillman974]

I think the search for Gollum is a window into the thousands of years of Gandalf’s labor against Sauron. Centuries of protracted side quests - sprinting across Middle Earth like a chicken with his head cut off, as often as not to accomplish nothing. Multiple human lifetimes of fear, exhaustion, hunger, and homesickness, picking up threads, dropping them only to pick them up again. From Gandalf’s perspective, everything from the Erebor quest to the War of the Ring happened with terrifying suddenness.

[@rotjrotk]

the Hunt for Gollum gave Gandalf the perspective that Gollum was to be pitied (and he told that to Frodo), and also that Gollum would have something very important to do before the 'story' was over.

[@masamune2984]

Of all the stories in Tolkien’s works, “The Hunt for Gollum” is the LAST one I think would/should be made into a film. It’s important, but has little to no substance either on its own, or that wasn’t already covered in the films already. Here’s hoping, buuut…(Great video yourself though, as always!)

[@skellez83]

Which means they will fill it up with troll/dwarf love story, asian Aragorn and female Gandalf

[@Kholdaimon]

There is one enormous difference made by questioning Gollum: they now knew Sauron knew the ring had been found and where to start looking. That is vital information and the story would have looked very differently if they didn't know that.

[@michellechambers6495]

I really wish you talked more about how Gandalf was describing Smeagol to Frodo when we was recounting his adventure to him. When Gandalf was interrogating Smeagol, one of the biggest things that Gandalf takes notice of and mentions is that Smeagol really TRULY believed that the ring was his Birthday Present, he truly believes that killing his cousin Deagol to get the ring was what he was supposed to do. Gandalf describes it as "He loves the ring as much as he hates it, as much as he loves and hates himself". Smeagol's mind is so corrupted by the ring. He was tortured by it. In the book when Gandalf talks about this to Frodo, he says how sorrowful he is for Smeagol and genuinely feels bad for him and how he was sorry that he treated him so harsh during the interrogation.

[@Cosper79]

Best Tolkien KZbinr!

[@ZetaFuzzMachine]

I'd rather listen to Robert than watching any new film or series

[@ScooterDoge]

But the animated show is gonna give the legendarium a much needed dose of feminism.

[@andrew348]

​@@ScooterDogeso watch it then

[@MatthewOlwell]

Same.

[@Tindog42656]

@@ScooterDoge Much needed in what sense?

[@daveowens271]

I think the search also let Aragorn and Gandalf realize that at some level, Gollum was a player in the matter of the Ring. It also highlighted just how dangerous the Ring was. Gollum was a great visual aid and warning to those who might try to possess it. If it could do that to a Hobbit, imagine what it would do to an Elf? Or Maiar?

[@urememberfrank7600]

Great point. Having to confront seeing yourself in Gollum was a sort of challenge each of our heroes had to face.

[@Cosper79]

Has Robert done a video listing every person who touched The One Ring? Something like a chain of evidence for the ring, to include people who touched the ring, people who bore the ring, in chronologically order?

[@backwashjoe7864]

Plus an Honorable Mentions list, with, for example, Boromir.

[@tobsterP]

Hm, wouldn‘t that be rather short? Something like Sauron, Isildur, Déagol, Sméagol, Bilbo, Frodo, Sam? This is book canon - the Boromir incident on Caradhras never happens in the books and Gandalf is very careful both in books and film to never actually touch the ring.

[@backwashjoe7864]

@@tobsterP Boromir’s Honorable Mention is for really, really wanting to touch the One Ring, but not getting the chance. As per the book.

[@Adam-ne7qc]

Gandalf did touch the ring in the books: right after takig it back from fire with memorable "it's quite cool" line. To the list, we must yet add Tom Bombadil, and unspecified Rivendell elf who attached the ring to the chain.

[@tobsterP]

@@Adam-ne7qc Ha, nice, I knew I‘d forget someone … or sometwo I guess… (in my head canon, the smith would’ve used tongs).

[@ShawnHCorey]

Gandalf took 16 years to remember something said to him at least 50 years earlier about a thing that was completely lost and no longer a problem. For shame.

[@RetroJack]

Well said!

[@therongjr]

I already forgot things that people said to me this morning!

[@sufianabuahmad7781]

Oh man i just found out the travelers guide videos are all gone 😮 i loved that playlist

[@irvyne6111]

The thing about this story (as it is written) is that it results in information that everybody who has seen the first movie already knows. I'm intrigued how they are going to structure this story to actually give it some stakes. Why does it need to he told, apart from member-berries and dollars?

[@alekssavic1154]

Sometimes it's not about where you're going but how you get there. Given that Aragorn (in the books) doesn't really grow or change much aside from becoming king, getting to tell a story about a somewhat younger Aragorn on a 16-year-long wild goose chase (that somehow succeeds by accident) offers a whole lot of room for character work (who was Aragorn before LotR and how did he become the character we know?). Of course doing it well requires a competent writer that really understands and respects the pre-existing work, so I'm not very optimistic, but the basic idea isn't that terrible. Not every story needs to have super high stakes, and a lot of the best stories out there (high stakes or not) are more interested in the characters than the basic plot.

[@thomasdalton1508]

I'm not sure Frodo would have left the Shire any sooner if Gandalf had gone straight there. It's not like he left with much urgency as it was. He spent months planning his departure and only planned to go to the other end of the Shire initially. He only fled with haste after the encounter with the Black Rider. Without the information from Gollum, there would have been even less sense of urgency. I'm not sure he would have fled before the Black Riders arrived regardless.

[@Whatisright]

Both thought the hunt was hopeless but went anyway because at the time they had no other options. It’s the time before desperate times, so they had time. Taking so long, we see it’s a thorough search. This was the original level grind in the over world, a side quest that doesn’t advance the story but you get a bit more of what you like and some gains.

[@mil_enrama]

you always bring it home with the insightful commentary, Robert. thanks again!

[@DjVortex-w]

When you are an immortal being who has been wandering the physical realm for several thousands of years, 16 years may seem like a blink of an eye. Gandalf could probably spend entire weeks or even months just contemplating and pondering stuff, not caring much about what mere mortals would perceive as an enormous amount of time for such a thing.

[@chrisfromsouthaus2735]

Hopefully the studio heads come to their senses, and turn The Hunt for Gollum into a trilogy, with the middle entry being a two and a half hour long, 100% CGI barrel riding sequence!

[@dadrocha7741]

Very informative, thank you. Also, a very diplomatic description of what has most recently been put to the screen.

[@GustavoGplay]

This 12min video was probably much better than the movie will be...

[@defeatSpace]

Warner Bros have a pretty good reputation for honoring source media, _pretty good._

[@notaspeck6104]

I don’t necessarily disagree but what is this even based on? The movie isn’t even in production and we know next to nothing about that. You can have whatever prediction you want, but making blind assertions is pretty arrogant.

[@awesomehpt8938]

They made a game about this premise and it was disastrous And now they’re gonna make a movie about this?!?!

[@meZeusta14]

Is it the same creative team? if so, I really expect the movie to be trash. If they get someone else, there is hopefully a chance it will at least be entertaining.

[@dlxmarks]

@@meZeusta14 No, not the same team. Daedalic Entertainment, the company behind the Gollum game, was so traumatized by the terrible publicity that they gave up developing video games and will only publish them going forward. Still it's a caution of what can happen when lesser talents attempt to create something from the barebones outline given by Tolkien and I've never liked any of the content that Jackson, Walsh, and Boyens added to Tolkien's work in the past.

[@ComicalHealing]

What game is about hunting for Gollum?

[@adarkstarz]

@@ComicalHealing "The Lord of the Rings: Gollum" . True torture.

[@philipelandt]

Its not really about it. It's...wannabie gollum memory adventure​@@ComicalHealing

[@WillFredward7167]

If the film shows Gollum snatch a baby from a cradle (let alone doing it multiple times) the majority of viewers won’t have a problem with Aragon depriving Gollum of food and water or Gandalf threatening him. Modern laws in our world would prevent it, but a lot of people would fist-pump.

[@salt-emoji]

to catch a child so juicy sweet

[@THATGuy5654]

I would respect the hell out of this movie if, instead of trying to ape Peter Jackson's style, they just made it a road trip buddy movie. Aragorn as the straight man, Gandalf as the stoner goof off. There's a running joke of Aragorn trying to get the nickname Strider to stick.

[@willbryant3102]

That's awesome 😂

[@torontoclarinetist]

Smokin that hobbit hash

[@mariocp]

Thank you for this one, I guess after this I'm going to re-watch Chris Bouchard's 2009 movie. That one and also "Born of Hope" (also 2009 IIRC) are, by far, my favourite fan-made movies. It is striking how respectful of the source material they are. As for the upcoming film ... considering the "War of the Rohirrim" trailer ... (sigh) ... I'm hoping against hope

[@Rakotino]

I am reading Silmarillion for the first time!

[@donuttime2507]

Good luck

[@thewingedringer]

It's much more fun than people make it out to be, it'll peak your curiosity and many stories will pull you in even more than LOTR simply because the stakes are much bigger, a lot of it is despair, and hope when there is none. And when you read it it is meant to be read first, then LOTR after it. It was intended to be the first saga, being War of the Jewels and then War of the Ring. Not written like LOTR though.

[@jenniedarling3710]

I have tried but struggled with it, even the audio version.

[@istari0]

It can be a difficult read but it's well worth the effort, even if you need to read it more than once.

[@lukesayers5850]

Rookie.

[@guitargas1894]

Fantastic video as always!

[@AtlasJay]

Great video!

[@1991jwp]

I have to wonder why Aragorn took Gollum to Mirkwood when the elves of Lorien would probably have been much closer to where he was captured. Galadriel's security would probably have been tighter and she'd be more likely than Thranduil to appreciate the gravity of the situation and how important a prisoner Gollum was.

[@Adam-ne7qc]

Good question! I can think of only two answers: 1 Lorien, while save, is still a frontier 2 to cross Anduin, Aragorn needed to go far north anyway

[@Patches2212]

I think it is due to the sanctity and secrecy of Lorien. Like, remember that the border wardens of Lorien quite literally blindfolded the Fellowship as they entered so as to not know the way to the hall of Celeborn and Galadriel. Lorien was effectively a "holy site" for the Elves remaining in Middle Earth, and Aragorn would know this, thus likely know not to tarnish Lorien with Gollum. And do note that it was not immediately that Thranduil was lax with his imprisonment of Gollum. Like Legolas says at the Council of Elrond, the keepers showed pity upon Gollum, and slowly started giving him a bit more freedom. Among the trees, they would have been able to track and hunt down any other creature, but Gollum had siezed on their pity, and was cunning, so managed to escape them because they were not expecting their kindness to be shunned

[@Lord_Trudi]

9:19 nice one XD

[@Chrisytigers]

I started watching this channel due to the love of ASOIAF, leaving it too run at night obv i would hear lots of LOTRs. A series i was always going too get around too but never would. The last year or so iv became obsessed lol thanks.

[@ausnorman8050]

Thanks Robert :)

[@matthewanipen2418]

The problem with this being adapted into a movie is that although A LOT of things happen in those 16 years...the books dont go into any real depth. LOTR movie adaptations were incredible because they had hundreds of pages of dialogue and content to work with. So much so that they couldnt even fit it into 4 hr extended editions. I understand a lot of time goes by, but it's all summarized in the books as it is just a side quest in the greater mission. They are going to have to CREATE a lot of story which was a DISASTER in the Hobbit. You can bring back all the amazing actors you want, but they cant do shit with a bad story.

[@dlxmarks]

True and I have never liked any of the content that Jackson, Walsh, and Boyens added to Tolkien's work in the past. I consider them to be equivalent to Benioff and Weiss: skilled at adapting but hopeless at creating new material even when given a framework to base it on.

[@lodevijk]

Can you imagine spending 16 years on this useless quest?? Even if Aragorn lived 4 times longer than a regular human, that's a lot of time

[@andrew348]

Your comment was twice as useless

[@Eagle-eye-pie]

@@andrew348it’s a significant chunk of an entire lifetime, so worth pondering. Why are you even here?

[@the_milk_is_back]

Did you even read the books? Can you even read? It wasn't useless. Gandalf reprimanded Frodo for suggesting that Gollum should've been killed as he believed Gollum had a part to play in the events. To add to that the entire point of finding him was to capture him first to prevent him spilling information to Sauron regarding Bilbo and the Shire, which would've allowed the Quest of the Fellowship to occur in absolute secrecy. Sauron wouldn't even know the Ring was found let alone in the hands of his enemies. The fact that one of the major points of the books, that is that even the smallest and most insignificant things have purpose, is lost on you is totally unsurprising.

[@lodevijk]

@@the_milk_is_back Go on a quest for 16 years and come back when you've grown up

[@Peter-vb3dc]

The description of Bilbo’s change in character when the ring was discussed, is a brilliant insight into human psychology and how people act when something triggers the latent corruption within their soul. Im thinking about how the personalities of secretive pedophiles, drug addicts and politicians might subtly change when inadvertently confronted with the thing they secretly covet. I imagine it’s probably like how a pedophilic priest might respond when told the church is getting rid of alter boys and he’ll have no more access to victims.

[@klaus1756]

thank you

[@helikos1]

I would love to see videos detailing the Valar and Maiar, also perhaps a video explaining the relationship between the Maia of Aule and if there was any reasoning why they both turned to evil.

[@RetroJack]

You're in the right place - check his back catalogue!

[@helikos1]

@@RetroJack Is it detailed in a video with not necessarily an obvious title like "The Silmarillion: a summary"

[@ThatSteven20]

Looking forward to it

[@alexyerger9603]

Thranduil's lax security aside, where else could they have easily taken Gollum that COULD have held him? I don't think even they would have thought it was the BEST decision to leave him with Thranduil, but I can believe they thought it was the best available option. Gandalf DID try to take the Caradhras Pass, so we know his decision making isn't infallible.

[@thomasrinschler6783]

Dale and the Lonely Mountain weren't that much further.

[@coreyander286]

I bet Elrond and Cirdan run tight ships.

[@coreyander286]

It would be brave and gripping if they did depict Gandalf and Aragorn violating the Geneva Convention on Gollum, but realizing and lamenting that they did commit evil in their desperation.

[@woody5476]

So to sum it up, we're getting a whole movie based on events that ended up not even mattering. Lol

[@gcs7817]

Remember how Faramir threw gollum against the cave wall in the two towers ?

[@coreyander286]

In I think _Of Dwarves and Men,_ Tolkien also reveals that Faramir told Frodo and us readers false Gondorian propaganda about the origins of the Rohirrim. Another case of him being willing to depict wise upright characters like Faramir as fallible and products of their time.

[@SteveBueche1027]

I can’t see this being more than one movie.

[@gregblessing7036]

Stuart Townsend should play Aragon. Can you imagine how nuts that would be.

[@TheWanderingFire]

I think this would make a smashing short film (45 minutes at most), but I don't see how it could be stretched out to a full feature-length production. The bones are there b/c Gandalf is providing a summary, but I don't think there's enough meat to satisfy the audience.

[@rollinronin8125]

The "Ring Verse" (writings in the ring) is a great title for a lotr publishing or channel.

[@SuperTantePeter]

As a german the sentence that "isildurs heir shoud labour to repair Isildurs fault" hits twice as hard

[@ulvetid.01]

@supertantepeter No child is guilty of its parents sins. Nor should they be treated like they are.

[@SuperTantePeter]

@@ulvetid.01 true

[@tigdogsbody]

Well Done.

[@boing615]

I haven't read the books but if Sauron could see anyone when they put the ring on, how did Gollum stay hidden from him for so long? did he not wear the ring?

[@LTV746]

This channel has better writing than the new LOTR stuff

[@jamesheartney9546]

As frustrating as it must have been to Gandalf and Aragorn to spend years skulking in the wilds looking for Gollum, the story of the destruction of the Ring was a complex contrivance that had to work its way through to an exact, and unlikely, confluence of characters and circumstances in order for the Ring to go into the fire. Sauron had to be distracted by his hastily launched war, and by Aragorn's suicidal feint at the Black Gate, in order for Frodo and Sam to creep their way to Orodruin right under the Dark Lord's nose. Gollum had to be present, to bite off Frodo's finger and then fall to his fiery death, when the Ring overthrew Frodo's mind at the very end of the quest. None of this might have happened had Gandalf figured out the backstory of the Ring too quickly.

[@Law0086]

11:28 that hobbit weed is way past fire. It's got amnestic properties.

[@backwashjoe7864]

Aragorn’s trip with the captive Gollum has already been made into a movie…. In 1988, Midnight Run.

[@seyrnahd]

The issue with translating this into a movie is obviously down to substance, but i fear the real reason almost nobody is totally amped for a big screen edition is simple really, in the last 10 years Hollywood have released 90% garbage, 9% viewable, and 1% that is actually worth watching. I don't fancy the odds tbh.

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

They'll toss a bunch of unrelated content into it and create new content, like the idiots did with The Hobbit trilogy.

[@universalflamethrower6342]

Aragorn and Gandalf are righteous just like Abraham and Jacob are righteous, flawed but good in the end

[@jonrwert]

They should've taken Gollum all the way back to Rivendell for some small chance of healing. Gandalf could've gone on ahead to the Shire after requesting a small transport party from Thranduil to join Aragorn.

[@highlandoutsider]

It would be interesting to hear Tolkiens feelings on the treatment of Gollum, good but not perfect may be our modern take but I wonder if he felt the same or was it in his mind fine and completely justified

[@Johnson30-06]

The socially acceptable modern take is that justice is bad. It is doubtful that Tolkein would share such an aversion.

[@coreyander286]

​@@Johnson30-06 They weren't torturing Gollum in the name of justice for the Woodmen he harassed, they were torturing Gollum to get answers about the Ring for the sake of Middle-earth, so I don't know why you'd appeal to justice. Anyhow you've probably been misinformed about how "based and redpilled" Tolkien was. We're talking about someone who wrote that _the right thing to do to Gollum_ after Gollum had _tried to murder Sam and Frodo multiple times, one time using a horrific giant spider,_ and when logically Gollum would just attack them again right before the most critical moment of their quest, was to still have pity on Gollum and spare him. Sauron was only defeated because Sam spared Gollum _against all logical reason and moral justice._ Remember, Tolkien had the hero of the story demand that _Saruman_ be spared and allowed to leave the Shire free and alive. Saruman, after he already did all that evil in Amon Hen and Rohan, and was allowed to go free by Gandalf, and then did more evil despoiling the Shire... Tolkien's like, "And the good guy should let him go free _again!!"_ When Tolkien writes about how he abhors "the machine", referring to an abstract governmental machine that organizes society, he's not just referring to progressive modern governments, he's also referring to traditional conservative and reactionary governments. In one letter he stated that he was not a "reformer", but that he was not an "embalmer" either, meaning someone who tries to keep things the way they've "always been" against inevitable change.

[@justthinkingoutloud2538]

I want to be optimistic for this project, and it can't possibly be as bad as Rings of Power, but this is the strangest premise for them to choose to make a movie about, and I have a hard time imagining it being very good. We'll see, but it just feels like everyone's competing to churn out the best LotR content right now rather than actually trying to tell stories worth telling, which is exactly what I was afraid would happen back when Amazon first started working on their show.

[@ulvetid.01]

I get the feeling it will be a disaster for the usual reasons.

[@conorjohn490]

I wish it were a Netflix or Sony product so I could watch Adam Sandler go on his summer vacation and get in wacky hijinks involving invisibility and fart jokes.

[@thewingedringer]

"DEI" "Woke" blah blah blah

[@superslayerguy]

Andy Serkis does give me some faith. Listened to his narrations of the books on Spotify and you can tell he really does cherish Tolkien’s work. We will see though, I will remain slightly optimistic 🙂

[@matthewanipen2418]

The Milking of Nostalgia rated PG13

[@sfall616]

@@thewingedringer Really going to act like a child, when it is. You may complain and seethe, truth is truth.

[@kirururik]

woah i didnt know about this upcoming movie thats awesome :)

[@tomasandersen8718]

If Gandalf's memory was better it could have spared a lot of trouble: identifying the ring and getting in to Moria (mellon))

[@Mentallect]

Gollum's small size, superhuman speed, and biological immortality halped Gollum elude capture.

[@NCfrost82]

They need to make a full fledged 'Gollum' horror flick....lol.

[@rashkavar]

It's very worth noting that given his life experiences, consciously or not, it's very real to me that Tolkien's most "perfect" characters (in the sense of having the moral high ground, of treating even one as low and vile as Gollum with a basic level of decency and respect) are those who are, historically, least effected by war. In World War I, it's kinda hard to make a clear philosophical argument for who was good and who was bad - there are certain lines Germany crossed first (the use of poison gas being a major example) but whenever one side adopted a strategy, the other side would be quick to follow suit. Though the more pertinent example might be World War II - wherein the Allies were certainly the lesser evil, but only because the bad guys were systematically committing crimes so awful we didn't even have words for them yet. The Allies did plenty of terrible stuff. So yeah, I'm not at all surprised that to Tolkien, the active defenders of the side of Good are capable of torturing Gollum without compromising their moral integrity entirely. And conversely, those who treat him with pity - Bilbo, Frodo and (to a lesser but still significant extent) Sam, are among the most naive characters, those who've been sheltered from the hard realities of what it can take to defend against evil. And no, I'm not saying this is a deliberate allegory, I'm saying that Tolkien, as a soldier of WWI and a survivor of WWII, would have enough experience of the realities of war and the civilian experience of war to know that sometimes, one has to do bad stuff in order to do good ..or at least, that it's very easy to fall into a mindset that accepts this without question - there's definitely stuff the Allies did in WWII that just made things worse for themselves, such as "strategic" bombing of cities. (It just pisses off the people being bombed, makes them hate the side bombing them all the more, and makes them and their loved ones on the front lines that much more determined to fight back. Blitz Spirit isn't a uniquely British phenomenon, it happens literally every time someone gives up on strategy and switches to wholesale bombardment of a civilian population.)

[@danielmyers76]

Without the complicated flight from the Shire to Rivendell, the hobbits don’t get the blades from the barrow and the witch king doesn’t die. The Nazgûl also are probably on the company as soon as they set out from Rivendell instead of making their way back to Mordor unhorsed. For me, the history of Angmar, and The Hunt for the Ring are way more interesting and exciting.

[@Dissent1]

Can you imagine how happy Aragorn was when he finally determined that Gollum was not Isildur?

[@adamwarlock8263]

its likely that gandy knows galadriel's ring nenya has a preservation power, which could be why that feature of the one ring was not a red flag to him

[@InsaneRabbitDaddy]

Gandalf also told Frodo, once he got to Rivendell, that if he had known the Nine had arisen, he would have fled the Shire with Frodo at once.

[@thewingedringer]

As a PJ movie this might be pretty good. May be a nice addition before watching LOTR, I hope it will be.

[@sciencegiant]

The Stone of Erech deserves a video explainer

[@TheEyez187]

How they'll cover Aragorn and Gandalf's treatment of Gollum;..... he snatched babies for dinner; they treated him kindly! >XD

[@Carlo_ReNews]

I really hope most of the movie will be from Gollums perspective so we can really dive deep into his psyche. Maybe Andy Serkis will finally get the Oscar he always deserved

[@maxstr]

Hey @InDeepGeek do you take topic suggestions

[@samuelleask1132]

Throwing shade at thranduil 😂😂😂

[@GingerTheMusical]

Legolas was only in Rivendell to tell Aragorn that Gollum had escaped. He wouldn’t have been part of the fellowship and would likely have never become friends with Gimili.

[@GRB-tj6uj]

The project is of course Hollywood at its most cynical, but I think the greatest issue will be finding some emotional core or arc. Most stories are about the protagonist going through a process of change and learning and for a Hollywood blockbuster it is really hard stray from that template without producing a flop. This is why the hobbits ate crucial for the other movies, and why they changed Aragorn so much for the movie trilogy. In this movie you can't give gollum an arc because he has it in the main story. Giving it to Aragorn would feel contrived: according to book canon Aragon was fully formed as a person at this point and if you follow film canon he has his arc later. Maybe they'll introduce some new character but nobody is going to care about them.

[@GeoEstes]

Maybe Aragorn could have more than one arc. Perhaps he's a bit full of himself in his early years, and learns compassion and humility through Gollum. Or it could be an arc for Gandalf.

[@GRB-tj6uj]

@@GeoEstes Gandalf is the archetypical old wise man so his whole deal is that he already knows everything. And the obvious choice would indeed be to something with the Gollum/Aragorn pairing. But the issue is (outside the fact that it contradicts both book and movie) that Gollum already goes through that process with Frodo. So Aragorn has to go through character development while Gollum doesn't change at all. Which doesn't work and is boring because we've already seen this play out in a better movie (with Frodo and Gollum).

[@RonR-z5h]

Rumor has it the Ian (gandalf) will bring that flick or in The rings of Power how cool is that 😁

[@gadflyeducator]

I don’t understand the motivation, beyond money, for making this movie. It doesn’t add much that the original trilogy didn’t already tell us. You’d have this three-hour epic that starts about 30 minutes into Fellowship, then hop back in when Gandalf returns to Bag End.

[@xNULNULx]

There isn't any. It's solely for money.

[@colindunnigan8621]

One wonder if they will interspace the later parts of this film with the Nazguls and their hunt for The Ring.

[@trancendental5373]

I dont know about a movie, but i bet Gollum would make for a great video game hero!!

[@coreyander286]

In the right hands, a Gollum game seriously could have slapped...

[@thomassmith6232]

We can only conjecture why Aragorn chose to take Gollum to Tharanduil and not Elrond or Galadriel. He might also have taken him to Saruman, since Saruman's treachery was not yet known. Had he done so Saruman may well have gotten the Ring.

[@marki-l4c]

how did gandalf convince bilbo (or frodo) to throw the ring into a fire? doesn’t it make the owner super protective of it?

[@TchaLimberger5]

Thank you for your videos, that I do enjoy qquite a lot. Now I have a question that you may be able to give us some clarity about. What happend after Isildoor took the one ring? Sometimes, I seem to understand, he was betrayed by it straight away, on the way home, but somewhere I seem to recall reading, he first went to Gondor and only a couple of yeels later, tryed to go to Rivendale, to ask for Elrond’s advise… how much does tolkien tell us? What happened before Isildoor lost his ring and his life?

[@istari0]

That's basically what happened. Isildur remained in Gondor to help in ordering the kingdom in the aftermath of the War of the Last Alliance as he would eventually go north to be the High King up in Arnor as Elendil had been before him. During that time, he realized the One Ring was not something he could control and it was corrupting him. So, when he started the journey to Arnor, he went up the east side of the Misty Mountains where he planned to cross the mountains at the pass near Rivendell and go there to seek Elrond's aid. But his party was ambushed by a large number of Orcs and the Ring slipped off his finger as he tried to escape in the Anduin.

[@BigMac072]

If the main events of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings take place 77 years apart, that would mean that Aragorn was alive during the events of The Hobbit, right? He would be about 10, I believe. What was Aragorn up to during The Hobbit? It seems like a great idea for another video!

[@laura-ann.0726]

I wonder where the film makers will get enough background material and dialogue for this new film? The sum total of what Gandalf and Aragorn say about their 16 year chase amounts to only a few paragraphs of dialogue, spoken to Frodo on April 13th, TA 3017, with a bit more revealed at the Council of Elrond in October 3017. It's the same with Radagast; there's hardly any "meat" about him at all in the written LOTR books, he's mentioned in a few sentences, and once in The Hobbit, where Gandalf is trying to win over a suspicious Beorn and names-drops Radagast as someone Beorn might know. I have high hopes for this film, since Andy Serkis will "be" Gollum and also be the director, and Fran Walsh and Peter Jackson will produce, but do we know enough about the Chase from other sources, like JRRT's letters and notes, to flesh out this story into a feature length film?

[@scottbillups4576]

16 years is a long time for a teenage (?) human (Aragorn) to spending looking for Gollum. Gandalf would more of a father-figure to Aragorn than we realized. Also, had Gandalf not interrogated Gollum directly, then Frodo wouldn’t have know the name Smeegol and couldn’t have addressed Gollum that way to win his confidence. Did Frodo know the story of Deegol?