The Investigative Judgement & The Close of Probation for Adventists

The Investigative Judgement & The Close of Probation for Adventists
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[@Former_SDA]

_So we have no biblical example or account of any high priest entering the holy of holies_ , *opening some books, and then begin to investigate something* . Why is this suddenly applicable 1800+ years later when we have *zero typology* or even *one example* of such a thing in the old testament sanctuary practices?

[@Nuteena_Haystack]

Excellent point. No typology.

[@alongcamejones309]

Yeah. It's just a made up story by EGW 😊

[@drejayc_]

What a Really dumb way of thinking.

[@Former_SDA]

@@drejayc_ The dumb way of thinking is what the "little flock" did after the great disappointment. They were sure something had to have happened on October 22, 1844 that they came up with the investigative judgement doctrine. It was the SDAs who offered up the typology of the high priest having to go into the holy of holies on the day of atonement, seemingly ignoring the fact that Christ had already done this. The author of Hebrews tells us that _"But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, _*_he sat down at the right hand of God_*_ , WAITING from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet"_ (Heb 10:12-13). Notice that Christ sat down next to God and is "waiting" until all of His enemies come under subjection of His rule. This is confirmed by Paul: _"Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet"_ (1Cor 15:24-25) The Bible speaks nowhere of there being a 2nd apartment "atonement" as if there was a "first atonement" in the holy of holies and a "second atonement" in the most holy place. No, there was one singular atonement made on a singular day in the most holy place, and that is where the presence of God dwelled. Notice per Hebrews, Christ is currently sitting the right hand of God. So *Jesus is already in the most holy place* and has been since the ascension. He didn't suddenly stand up after sitting right next to God to supposedly go into some "other compartment" *where the presence of God also is* . (Recall that the most holy place is where the ark of the covenant was, with the presence of God sitting upon the "mercy seat" of the ark). Adventists would have us believe that after sitting next to God for 1811 years Jesus now needed to stand up in the year 1844 and start some "second phase" in order to complete His task of atoning. Respectfully may I point out that Christ isn't playing some kind of musical chairs in heaven, getting up from sitting next to the father, only to enter some other compartment in heaven in 1844 where the Father *also sits* . This is pure fiction and confusion on the part of Adventists.

[@davidmiller079]

Daniel 7:9,10 levitcus 16

[@SundayKeeper]

*Happy Investigative Judgment Day!* (Now going on for 179 years)

[@LoCoWi]

No SDA knows when their lives are investigated, or whether they know the outcome of this IJ until after they die. No SDA alive today can affirm that Jesus FROM the heavenly sanctuary has declared "....you have passed the searching scrunity of my investigation upon your life....".

[@Hiram_Bates]

Adventists, where do you find anything plainly stated in the Bible about a supposed "investigative judgement" or a "close of probation" or that the mark of beast is the worshipping God on Sundays? There is no mention from Genesis to Revelation about a "Sunday law." Neither is there any place in the Bible where people are persecuted for keeping the Sabbath. Same goes for the investigative judgement. My SDA friend, if you have any verses that clearly support these Adventist concepts, please provide them (if not, you need to reconsider the truthfulness of these concepts). Avoid theological "cheery picking" which is to pick and choose certain verses and assemble them into something not clearly stated in a straightforward reading of Scripture. No eisegesis allowed.

[@joelawitte]

Hi Hiram, We can speak about it in a zoom meeting or googlemeeting. More than happy to have chat with you about this topic: the investigative judgment.

[@Hiram_Bates]

@@joelawitte So Zoom meetings have to be coordinated. Posting comments allows great interaction without time restraints. Do you have any verses that you could just post here that make a straightforward case for anyone of the above doctrines?

[@danielakoyleek3757]

Someone help please.. Where does the Bible say, an Israelite could still bring in his sin offering on the very day of atonement to cleanse his sin? In other words, how do we prove the idea that one can still fix his house after his investigative judgment begins?

[@Nuteena_Haystack]

The real problem with this investigative judgment doctrine is that *we don't have any example or typology* of some high priest entering the holy of holies and opening some books and then begin to investigate something. Why would we suddenly apply something like this to Christ 1800+ years after He atoned for our sins?

[@rogermetzger7335]

I attended Seventh-day Adventist schools for 12-1/2 years (1950-1963). By somewhere around 1961, I knew I was going to have to find alternatives to the way some doctrines had been explained to me. One of those doctrines was “the close of probation”. I don’t remember any of my teachers using the word “arbitrary” in describing the close of probation but the way my teachers described that doctrine seemed to me to imply that the Lord will arbitrarily close human probation. I offer this alternative, not as THE way to explain that doctrine (I don’t have any more spiritual authority than any other Christian) but I believe each person’s probation closes when that person makes a final choice between God’s way of ruling the universe (love) and Satan’s way (coercion). Do I think thousands or maybe even millions or billions of people will make their final decision at the same or about the same time (the same day, for example)? I think that is not only possible but likely. I think the announcement, “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still”, will be made when the last person who is capable of making that kind of a decision has done so and that the announcement will be about something that will have already happened - not as a “gotcha” moment. P.S. Is it even legal for someone to claim to be a Seventh-day Adventist while saying that the organization is apostate because the official statement of beliefs has changed?

[@Hiram_Bates]

Roger, I went to the SDA schools during the 1970s. By the 1980s I was exposed to Desmond Ford's findings and Walter Rae's book The White Lie. I eventually left the denomination, noticing that their strange doctrinal views fostered a hostility toward the rest of the body of Christ which they refer to as "apostate Christianity." I regularly ask many SDAs where one could find anything plainly stated in the Bible about a supposed a "close of probation" or and investigative judgement." (Also, there is no mention from Genesis to Revelation about a "Sunday law," neither is there any place in the Bible where people are persecuted for keeping the Sabbath). I appreciate your take where you state "I believe each person’s probation closes when that person makes a final choice between God’s way of ruling the universe (love) and Satan’s way (coercion)." While I don't see the term "probation" used anywhere in the Bible, I do agree that a person has the opportunity to serve God or to serve himself during our brief time here on earth. Your different consideration of this matter is refreshing, seeing that many in the denomination simply don't question the standard SDA interpretation of the Three Angels Messages.

[@rogermetzger7335]

@@Hiram_Bates When the name of the organization was "The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists", it was possible to think of the adventist emphasis (emphases?) as a special emphasis within the Christian church. Maybe there were SdA who imbibed deeply of the we-are-it syndrome, even back then. But now that the officers of the General Conference prefer to refer to the organization as "The Seventh-day Adventist Church", that designation virtually prevents people from thinking that way and moves adventists significantly closer to the perspective of LdS (Mormons). The new designation encourages people - in and outside the organization - to think of it as hierarchical, creedal and dogmatic. I didn't think of my parents that way (although there may have been hints of that occasionally). Repeatedly, when I was a boy, my dad urged me: "Read for yourself, study for yourself and think for yourself. Maybe most SdA were merely followers of the organization back then but I think that tendency is greater now - if for no other reason than that the majority of adventists now live in the third world where independent thought and action are not only rare but mostly incomprehensible.

[@Hiram_Bates]

@@rogermetzger7335 Thank you for sharing your thoughtful perspective on state of affairs of the denomination. I am 37 years removed from it so I often wonder how it is getting alone. From what I have gathered I think they have been trying to reform themselves for some time now. I live near Loma Linda and my SDA friends inform me that EGW is not stressed as much from behind the pulpit. Also it appears that the splinter groups seem to want to get away from the concept of a General Conference that governs all doctrinal issues. While the Adventist church denies being creedal, the 28 fundamental beliefs are a creed. I'm not sure why they wish to insist they don't have creeds other than it was nice to say that 160 years ago. I welcome any additional thoughts you might have.

[@rogermetzger7335]

@@Hiram_Bates From the time I was able to respond in to questions about the Bible stories featured in the children’s Sabbath School classes, I was accustomed to “putting myself into the stories” by which I mean trying to understand the motives of the people in the stories and thinking about the choices I would have faced if I had been any of the major characters in the stories. In the 1950s, our parents bought a card game at the SdA “Book and Bible house” about the people who influenced the nineteenth century Millerite-adventist movement and the post-disappointment doctrinal developments of the seventh day sabbath keeping adventists. As you might guess, I put myself into that narrative as well. I was (and am) entirely comfortable with and considered (consider) the seventh-day-ness of the sabbath to be a biblical doctrine. I was (and am) comfortable with and considered (consider) the doctrine that the initial phase of the final judgment began at the close of the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 to be a biblical doctrine. When I compared (compare) John 14:2 & 3 (I will come again) with I Thessalonians 4 (the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout), I was (and am) comfortable with the doctrine that the purpose of the second advent of Jesus is to resurrect the people who have died in faith and take living believers with them to the mansions he has gone to prepare where the redeemed will live and reign with Jesus for a thousand years. (It wasn’t until 2018 that I learned that William Miller expected the saints to reign with Jesus ON EARTH during the Millennium.) In those ways, I’m as adventist now as ever - and, because my religion is personal - not institutional - I would be an adventist in that sense, even if the SdA organization were to cease to exist! I always considered H.M.S. Richards Sr. (speaker of the Voice of Prophecy radio broadcasts from 1937 to 1969) to be an example of what adventist evangelism should be. So far as I know, he never ceased to think of the SdA organization as “the church” (I never agreed with that, even when I was a boy) but I’m reasonably certain that he never referred to the organization as the church, either during his radio broadcasts or in his many sermons at adventist camp meetings. There were several other doctrines that many SdA considered (consider) to be important but that I never heard him preach. A person who was aware of the name of H.M.S. Richards’ radio broadcasts (The Voice of Prophecy) might assume that the broadcasts consisted largely of predictions about future events. Evidence to the contrary can be found in a statement by Richards Sr. "Bible prophecy is not given so we can see what will happen, but so we can see what already happened, and get confirmation that the Bible is true. If it came true historically, then when Jesus gives his wonderful teachings, we ought to believe that, too," (Quoted in a Wikipedia Article about Richards.) That statement is remarkably similar to something Sir Isaac Newton wrote: "The folly of interpreters has been to foretell times and things by this prophecy [Revelation], as if God designed to make them prophets. By this rashness they have not only exposed themselves, but brought the prophecy also into contempt. The design of God was much otherwise. He gave this and the prophecies of the Old Testament, not to gratify men's curiosities by enabling them to foreknow things, but that after they were fulfilled they might be interpreted by the event, and his own providence, not the interpreters', be then manifested thereby to the world. For the event of things predicted many ages before will then be a convincing argument that the world is governed by Providence." - Sir Isaac Newton - copied from a website: traditional historicism - christian eschatology If you were to ask 100 SdA whether William Miller predicted that Jesus would return on October 22, 1844, I’d bet well over 90 of them would answer in the affirmative. I don’t think so. I think what Miller did was to show people the evidence that the 2300 days would end “about 1843” and let them draw their own conclusions. This quote by Mr. Miller seems to confirm that. He wrote that he was afraid, “lest by some possibility I should be in error, and the means of misleading any.” In the 1970s, I was invited to teach an adult methodist Sunday school class - which I did for three months. I invited the members of the class to read Bible texts I thought supported about a dozen Bible doctrines - including the seventh-day-ness of the sabbath and the state of the dead. Shortly after I taught that class, I decided to move to another state. The members of the methodist congregation held a farewell dinner for me - complete with vegetarian “meatballs” from a nearby adventist academy. During the meal, I sat next to the methodist pastor. He told me some of the methodists had, for the first time anyone could remember, requested that he baptize (immerse) them and that the church board had voted to have a foot-washing service in connection with their next observance of the Lord’s supper. After the meal, the methodists (knowing full well that I was an adventist) ordained me as a missionary. (The memory of that ceremony served to encourage me during the 25 years my wife and I lived in Utah! Ever since then I have thought - and sometimes spoken - of us as “returned missionaries”.) About 2008, I became convinced that a new kind of LAY evangelistic association is needed - one that emphasizes the prophecies that were fulfilled during the first advent of Jesus (40%), basic protestant principles (30%), the methodist emphasis on sanctification and the baptist emphasis on water baptism (immersion) (20%) and the purpose of the second advent of Jesus (10%). Maybe it isn’t possible but my vision of such an evangelistic association includes NOT teaching some of the doctrines that (even if they are biblical) are not essential to those emphases and evangelists paid by the association NOT preaching a political gospel (conservative or progressive). Part of my reason for requesting full voting membership in the SdA organization in 1959 was that I wanted to be a missionary. There isn’t any “danger” that adventists will offer to sponsor me as a missionary in the twenty-first century but I almost certainly wouldn’t accept such an offer, even if it were proffered. I would be afraid of conflicts because of my failure to encourage people to think of the SdA organization as “the church”. On the other hand, if methodists who AREN’T promoting a political gospel were to offer to sponsor me as a missionary.........

[@davidmiller079]

​@Hiram_Bates Hi you may find Matthew 22:1-14 & Daniel 7:9,10

[@jessicaannrussell5970]

ok cool

[@fernvaldevilla9145]

Twist the Bible all you want. John 3:18; John 5:24; Jesus is interceding not investigating.

[@jonldavis]

I always understood one close of probation but recently watched a sermon that showed this quote... The time of God’s destructive judgments is the time of mercy for those who have had no opportunity to learn what is truth. Tenderly will the Lord look upon them. His heart of mercy is touched; His hand is still stretched out to save, while the door is closed to those who would not enter. They also go into the judgments for those lost in the Church are the Trumpets while the rest of the lost will receive the Vials. So they expect two close of probations. Have you heard that? And how do you interpret that quote. Also I don't even know if you think the Trumpets are future or not. I do think they are future myself.

[@joelrobinson2978]

Just one question when the latter rain is poured out ,will it not be poured out on those who are sealed ? And if , God has already sealed is people what about the souls that will be won bcz of the latter rain influence. Or is it that after latter rain probation is still open

[@theodoreturner5567]

Initially Millerites understood that the close of probation was to occur on August 11, 1840, with the end of the sixth trumpet. That they had an idea of the close of probation, prior to understanding the work of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary is quite remarkable. As there has been much enquirry of late on the subject of the closing up of the day of grace, or probation, we here give the scriptures on which this opinion is founded, with some remarks and leave our readers to judge for themselves. Rev.xvi. 12--21. The attentive reader of the foregoing passages, will see that on the pouring out of the "Seventh Vial," a voice "from the throne," proclaimed,--"IT IS DONE." This was after the battle of "Armagedon." If it is after that, then, the day of grace will continue to the end of the world, or till Christ comes. 1 Cor. xv. 23. 24. "Afterwards they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the End when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God even the Father." On this passage, Prof. Stewart, of Andover, makes the following remark. "The apostle here represents the End as coming when Christ will deliver up his mediatorial kingdom, after he has put all enemies under his feet, this accomplished his mediatorial work is done; his embassy is completed; his mission therefore comes to an end." Again, Rev. x. 7. "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the Mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets." When the sixth Trumpet hath ceased to sound, the seventh begins, and "in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall BEGIN to sound, the mystery of God, or dispensation of grace shall be finished. It would appear from this, that upon the fall of the Turkish empire which will take place on the closing up of the "sixth vial" and "trumpet," that the day of probation will close. Again, Rev. xi. 15. "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, the kingdom of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever." This most certainly closes up the gospel dispensation, and brings us to the glorified state; for we are to "reign forever and ever." This will take place when the seventh angel shrill sound. Here we have this most solemn and momentous subject, as brought to view in the book of Revelation. There is one other passage that we quote, which has an important bearing upon this subject. Mat. xxv. 10--12. "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom come; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage, and the DOOR WAS SHUT," We learn that the preparation was made by the wise, when the midnight cry was given: but the foolish deferred the matter until it was too late; for while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, "and the door was shut." "Afterwards, the foolish virgins came, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. This is the time referred to in Rev. xxii. 11, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still, and he which, is filthy, let him be filthy still; and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still; and he that is holy, let him be holy still." {August 1, 1840 JVHe, HST 69.6}

[@rayoflight2863]

Heart message. Keep up the good work.

[@NoSundayLawComing]

Consider this. If something as dramatic as the whole concept of the close of a supposed *probation period* (and the ending of a supposed investigative judgement) and a coming universal Sunday Law following where Christians attending church on Sundays will suddenly be damned forever, then surely it would be described *directly* in the Bible. Wouldn't a loving God want to let others know about this doctrine if it were true? Yet no one outside of Seventh-day Adventism has ever found these doctrines in the Word of God.

[@loyal7790]

Mankind's probation closes just before the second coming of Jesus Christ: The BIBLE says so: Rev 22:11 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." Rev 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." This is Jesus Christ, Himself speaking. Does He come immediately after the close of probation? He says what? "Behold I come quickly" What people will He reward? The BIBLE: Rev 22:14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Where in the Bible are these quotations? At the end of the Bible: At the end of God's restoration process, of those who want Him, into His image and likeness.

[@fredsimmons2793]

This was a fine sermon young man. Sacred Sabbath to God's people!

[@OnTheWallsOfZion]

I agree, we don't know the exact time when probation will close but according to the SIGN that Christ gives in Matthew 24, we will know when it is close, even at the doors (of the sanctuary when He is about to step out). How? with the fulfillment of the parable of the fig tree shooting forth. The shooting forth represents Islam. A study of Revelation chapter 9 is helpful to understand the language of in the Bible of these Arabic people and the role they will play in the closing scenes of earth's history. This time is also known as the time of our visitation when the cases of all will be decided, then the plagues fall for about a year and then the 2nd Coming.

[@edmondclement4005]

Amen🙏🏾❤️❤️ Powerful timely message as probation closes, we may examine ourselves if we're in Christ Jesus as the investigative judgment is on. Lord to have mercy. Thanks so much for sharing beloved brethren brother Vasko Belovski and all entire family for eternity at Seventh Day Press, blessings. Maranatha 🙏🏾❤️🙏🏾

[@fwr2024]

Garbage

[@lastonesimbayi]

Thank you pastor today I have understood the investigative judgement

[@ronnyandersen6733]

If you read Amos 9:1 "I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, Smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake: and cut them in the head, all of them; and I will slay the last of them with the sword: he that fleeth of them shall not flee away, and he that escapeth of them shall not be delivered." This is the end of the Shaking period, when the Large group of SDA depart from the Three Angels Message and become the most efficient persecutors of the 144000. Then it is written in the Prophecies, that there will be Adventists that will stand up and endure the persecution with them. The close of probation, is to adopt the teachings of Spiritualism, proclaimed by the Ancient Men of Eze 9, people that were born again Christians but abandoned CHRIST and the Sabbath. Dumb dogs that cannot bark. Isa 56:10-* speaks of them, as does Mica 3. The false prophet. Sister White calls them False Shepherds and False Watchmen. You can read of these in Early Writings Supplement. So there is a close of probation for the Adventist first, for the Judgment begins with the House of the LORD. Study what Spiritualism is and that it is a real threat among the OTG, FATHER and SON people.

[@TurtleDove1888]

Not sure how you feel that OTG are the spiritualists referred to by Sister Ellen. Throughout the Bible we are taught that there is One True God. It clearly depicts Jesus as the beloved Son of God. Revelation tells us that at the end of the world, Jesus, our Mediator, Savior and King will present the saved to His Father,. (He is not presenting His people to a Trinity but to His Father, the Supreme Ruler of the Universe.)

[@Wayne_Wilson]

Quoting the Review & Herald gets you nowhere with non-SDAs. This doctrine is totally woven together, even applying 1 Peter 4 to the events of Daniel's *1150 days* (which is the time allotted for 2300 *evening & morning* sacrifices. Read it in Hebrews. No mention of "days" or *yom* in that passage). Dan 8:14 And he said to me, “For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state.” This is a major flaw in the Millerite calculation. Miller used the KJV instead of the original Hebrew text, and the SDAs are beholden to interpreting that way ever since. Regarding 1844. The 2300 evening and morning sacrifices of Daniel 8 were already fulfilled in the time of Christ. How do we know? The answer is Hanukkah, the Jewish festival commemorating the recovery of Jerusalem and subsequent rededication of the Second Temple at the beginning of the Maccabean revolt against the Seleucid Empire in the 2nd century BCE. The initial prophecy was fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanies in 168 to 165 BC It is also know as the Festival of Dedication and regarded by Jews as the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy of the cleansing of the Temple. Per the Gospel of John, Jesus was in the temple courts during this festival with no rebuke of those celebrating it. John 10:22-24: Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.” If Jesus knew that the prophecy of Daniel 8:14 wouldn't be fulfilled until he entered the heavenly sanctuary in 1844 certainly he would have rebuked these Jews for celebrating it's fulfillment the Maccabean revolt.

[@deanluyt]

This sermon was a blessing. It has inspired me to study more. Blessings

[@mayeerahbrits1372]

🙄