The Jam Game I Learned The Most From - Critiquing My Own Game

[@RyuuTenno]

something you could do with this game, while keeping the sacrifice concept, would be to allow players to increase a stat, but, at the loss of another. And then combine that with sharp increases/sacrifices at times. So, maybe they'll select +1 health/-1 speed, but, later on, have the option to take +2 strength/-2 health. But, this was a wonderful video to watch, and I'm glad you shared your experiences, definitely stuff to keep in mind :)

[@findot777]

I was thinking the same thing

[@sheepthehack]

I would have removed the boring STATS potions.. and come up with 3 or 4 DEBUFFS and 3 or 4 BUFFS.. so u basically have an 8 slot BUILD that u will play through the game with made up of these 8 elements.. a good run would be 7 BUFFS a bad one the opposite.. .. each level end. have 1 potion on the table and show people that it runs through them all and then stops on a random one.. u then drink this for the next part of the game!

[@AlmostM]

I remember Ludum Dare 40's theme was "The more you have, the worse it is" and there were a lot of games where you get weaker or slower as you progress and a lot of those games were really painful to play. So I can relate to what you are saying about it not being fun to get weaker.

[@alu2901]

I think that a way to "fix" the getting weaker thing while still having a fun game with some replayability would be to have a handfull of power ups that give you stat boosts and stat decreases, so the player has to pick what they think is the best thing to lose at the time. For example, you get +10% attack and -15% speed, or you get a bomb that has a slow fire rate and can hurt you but also does a lot of damage.

[@Blixir]

I think more variety could be added to the game by making it that instead of sacrifices reducing stats, they give some sort of unique curse making players try to play around them. Some examples for sacrifices: A slow trail of bullets is constantly following you. Additional enemies spawn in rooms. The room is now dark and you can only see in a circle of light around your character. The fire rate of turrets is increased. Your shock attack draws bullets towards you.

[@spironspirit6502]

I think that instead of reducing player stats, changing how the weapon worked, like have an aoe at first, then a single ranged attack, then a dash attack, then a close-range attack. This would still allow for the player to see new gameplay oppurtunities, while still making it harder. I feel like that would have been a better route for the game. and if we kept the stat thing, make it either weaken the form which changes the range and properties, startup, and end lag, but even that sounds not as fun as only adjusting the attack form. Another strat to change gameplay and keep the idea of mobility, defence, and attack, would be to have a shield system that changed each downgrade, like first it makes you invulnerable for a bit and allow movement, then you have to rebound the projectile back with the shield and stay in the same spot, then it just gets rid of the projectile when using the shield next downgrade. Next, add dashes that have different properties, first is 2 dashes that pass through the enemy and make you invulnerable, next 2 dashes that don't do damage or make you invulnerable, next is just one dash, and lastly, improve base speed, 0 dashes. Dashes would slowly replenish after a bit. But the game is already made, so just learning how far you have gone is still very good because it tells you and reminds you what ruins a game.

[@zonastarwars4397]

I think the main problem is the enemies because all of them have the same weakness. If each level had different enemies with different ways to counter them based on the stats you choose to keep/lose then the sacrifice would feel much more like a tactical decision. for example: -An enemy you can only defeat with speed because it moves fast and it's hard to catch. -An enemy you can only defeat with health by tanking attacks. -An enemy you can only defeat with strength because it can insta kill you if you take too long.

[@spironspirit6502]

@@zonastarwars4397 for that to work, you would need to make it so that unless you were super weak in that stat, that enemy would have to be a cakewalk, because it would still need to be doable with low stats. Taking from that concept, though enemies could combine requirements on some level, like for the insta kill enemy, just add a limited range to its attack, maybe lessen damage for fairness, and boom! It balances itself by either requiring attack or speed. Tanking attacks seems too unfun, like requiring you to be a bullet sponge, so maybe just lessen the bullet amount (and add warning between barrage) and make its health a bit higher to incentivize dmg, and the other one is the speed one, so just make it dash around, so once you focus the enemy, you can corner it. And make it's response to being cornered or you getting too close for too long is to attack back, and with little response time, it also requires health. However, it would still be hard to make fun that way because the way you play doesn't change enough throughout or give you the sense of achievement by making you stronger, and since we're avoiding the second one, we can only change how we play the game throughout as the challenge, although having that as well wouldn't hurt, and may make it a bit funner.

[@kiandrx6962]

Been watching you grow years. Thanks for inspiring me to get into game dev.

[@intentionallyblank2082]

It would be more interesting if the turret fire balls did damage to slimes and other turrets. That would make sacrificing dage the best option and spread being your best asset.

[@timothymclean]

I do still think there's something worthwhile in the idea of increasing difficulty by weakening the player character; it just needs to be done a bit more interestingly. I've spent years toying around with the idea of a sort of reverse Metroidvania, the idea being that you're a hero who just completed their big quest and needs to return the magic power-up artifacts to the ancient temples where you got them from. It would probably also help to tweak the balance of the game so that the player starts out OP, then sacrifices down to a balanced level, and ends up maybe a little weak at the end.

[@KotCR]

I think gear drops could have made this game alot better. Then it's more a tactical problem to solve where you pick the natural stats you lose depending on the gear you find - making it more of a puzzle or balancing act than just feeling like you're losing power. For example, you pick to lose Speed, so now you are going to prioritise Gear with +Speed stats.

[@ThatGuy_33]

I think the sea mechanic could actually be really interesting if the potions decreased one affect and increased another with the combinations being randomized. You could also give access to additional effects like arranged attack that you don’t start with by the fault. It would also be cool to be able to increase the power of each affect beyond the starting value. In theory players could choose to nerf certain aspects of the character to buff a specific attacks or create a more engaging play style.

[@NeoNthriller]

It's funny, when you mentioned that players don't like losing powers. I thought back to the times that for instance your character gets caught/locked up and their stuff taken away. I always hate those parts unless you just need to break out and almost immediately get my stuff back.

[@DapperBunger1]

Angry birds epic intro is basically this. YOu have some of the best shit in the game and immediatly go to the worst

[@VestinVestin]

The absolute worst scenario is when a game lets you build your character in any way you like, but then has an extensive section where one aspect gets disabled and if that's what you've built your character around entirely you effectively get soft-locked.

[@alu2901]

What if the part where you have all the powers is like 5 minutes and then you spend the rest of the game trying to regain your power?

[@NeoNthriller]

@@alu2901 I'd rather gain powers than regain powers. Feels like well now I'm back to where I was. If the game needs to hook me by showing what I can become. It most likely means the first few hours are not going to feel very satisfying and more like a grind to get to the good stuff.

[@BeyondSleepy]

I think that one way this idea could work is by including more ways the player could compensate for lost stats through skill. (1) Give the levels more bullet-hell elements so that loosing speed would require paying attention to and learning many attack patterns and rythms (maybe add trap elements with their own cycles every level): With full speed you can run through each level mostly without paying attention, with fully drained speed paying attention to the environment and planning out your moves like a puzzle becomes the main aspect of gameplay. (2) Add some diffcult to execute damage-boosting combat mechanics like parry-and-counter and backstab which are sort of pointless to master at full strength but which lets you melt an enemy's HP even at low strength when you've learned how to read and react to each enemy's behaviour and cues. (3) And finally make it actually difficult/engaging to complete levels without taking a single point of damage even with full strength and speed. Lowering health then makes the game about how best to leverage both strenght and speed to make the perfect run. This let's different players playing the same game lean into the skills and play-styles they enjoy the most while retaining an advantage letting them mostly ignore play-styles they have less interest in. This obviously also suggests some potential for replayability. I'm personally the sort of player that might voluntarily choose to play with the lowest damage weapon if I can compensate through high dex and skill (like playing through most of Death's Door using the umbrella, or choosing to use the half-damage submachine guns and sword in S4 League way way back in he day), but I could also see myself wanting to explore and develope the other skillsets suggested by the game concept. So getting weaker and having to increasingly work/think to beat a game isn't inherently unengaging (as you suggested), there just needs to be more to the gameplay than there was.

[@edemaiscomtheovieira2718]

This game jam created my favorite game

[@iamthestoat]

inscryption :)

[@DameGevMedia]

I still really like this concept, I think if you had more time, knowing what you know now you could make it really entertaining! And as for the life system, crash bandicoot still uses the 0 lives left is still a life left system 😅

[@RockyMulletGamedev]

Ah nice ! I really liked that video about "Oh Rats". I'm glad you keep making those !

[@findot777]

a puzzle game were you have to get rid of abilities could be cool

[@someguycalledgoober155]

Honestly I think the way to improve it would be that you swap what goes up and down per stage. So, say you want to upgrade your health you have to lower either your speed or strength. This adds an extra level of strategy on the player's end. "Do you want to a tank, or a glass cannon? Focus on speed to do hit and run tactics? Or maybe just stay as balanced as possible?" So for a visual: HP: 3 Atk: 3 Spd: 3 Next stage: HP: 3 < (-1) Atk: 3 < (+1) Spd: 3 For an extra level of depth, could add two different type of attacks. A magic attack, let's use the lightning from here. And some sort of physical attack, like a punch.

[@Atropos148]

SO one question i always ask myself with ideas like this one is: what does the UI for this look like? seems like a complicated, potentially confusing system :) do you always do +1/-1? Do you do more each level?

[@someguycalledgoober155]

@@Atropos148 Well, the point is that you over all have the same stat total. It's probably look like how Mario and Luigi's series handles it.

[@notSoAnonyymus]

I think one of the issues with making players weaker is you need story elements to provide emotional reasoning. IE, the boss laid waste to the boy's village and cursed anyone who was left alive. In order to save the remaining people in the village he conquers the Cursed Tower. So on top of being sick, he now has to climb a tower that also curses him more. As for the implementation, I think that off setting the stats by a little would be nice. IE: -1 health, +.25 speed. I just want to say I think the idea is cool but agree with the way it was made implement not so good.

[@omegaminoseer4539]

I agree with you Jeremiah. Sifu is a game that, "punishes," you with a reward as every death makes your character more of a glass cannon. You lose HP forever, BUT you do more damage that scales with your age, until your character ages PAST where they can respawn. This incentivizes *builds* where you go as long as you can at the lowest age to give yourself the highest safety net, but the game makes you become more methodical since you do minimal damage.

[@MelMelodyWerner]

the other thing about losing strength is that you need to make it feel like the player is learning and getting better at the game to make up for them losing their abilities. "oh no, I'm weaker" is an easier pill to swallow when the player then gets to say "but now I know enough that I can still do this."

[@sinuvasinuva]

A good example is Warcraft 3. The last campaign of frozen throne you play as arthas(Death knight) and you start at LVL 10 and as you progress you start losing levels (the lick king is weakening and as he get weaker so do you. Story reason weakening) The thing is, you have played the entire game before getting to this point where you get weaker, so you have experience in the game. You have allies who can help you. And the final mission where you get the last bits of power from lich king allowing you to level back to lvl 10 and defeat illidan and his "friends" is cool too.

[@gamedevreasearch]

I'm a beginning game dev, and seeing people hate on their old games really scares me. I feel like I won't be able to create anything good. What you made for that age/level of experience was really impressive. It's cool how you've improved though.

[@devforfun5618]

i always wanted to make a zelda game set after link defeats ganon, and you have to deliver all the weapons back to the dungeon, what stops me is the same reason, you would start with a lot of items, and finish with no items and that just feels wrong

[@VestinVestin]

I call this the "Reverse RPG", and increasingly get the impression that it's one of those "brilliant" idea people get that only feels original because nobody's seen it implemented in anything popular. It just doesn't work, it's actively anti-fun, and yet people keep reinventing this particular wheel. It's right up there with "kitchen sink MMORPG" Kickstarters.

[@yoav8893]

Amazing vid

[@DarkDule1234]

You didn’t even watch it yet though….

[@tyrantsonthefield]

Vim bringing the choice picking this morning

[@Vimlark]

Thank you INTO THE AM for these Elevated Everyday Graphic Tees! Get yours now and get 10% off site-wide when you click the link below: intotheam.com/vimlark

[@microdavid7098]

I think it's good seeing your critique of the game. Though with the idea, I think you could cook it up to be a very interesting concept. If I made this kind of game, I'd maybe think about making it parallel to life. As you grow old, your body starts to rebel. You grow weaker and things like that. Or maybe as you catch an illness, the illness starts to take a toll before you start recovering. But I can see how it can be frustrating and unfun. There is a lot to be thought about with this kind of game from a design standpoint. But I think there has to be a lot of limits placed on the player not making the game fun

[@interlock2.076]

If I have a game would you game play test it Mr. Vimlark.

[@agent-33]

Of course not. He doesn't even respond to comments let alone read it.

[@interlock2.076]

@@agent-33 oh

[@zachariahm.kemper7406]

I feel if you died you get your last sacrifice back, then you could have no death runs for challenge and what not but I also feel that speed shouldn't have been an option to sacrifice, since it makes movement through the leaves and the game feel worse, maybe if you chose a boon based on the skill you lost, like if speed was still an option when you lost one in speed you could choose between a couple of moment related options like teleporting, also did you say smash TV, why did I have to blow my check on my step dad's birth day

[@zachariahm.kemper7406]

Shit you said smashed tv

[@coolmatt-jq4in]

I am new and I been watching your KZbin videos and you inspire me. Hope you had a good day. Are you live streaming today?

[@YouTubeSFscript]

Yes he’s live right now

[@hasanunalan6673]

Thanks

[@whyNotaApple]

It's been a time I watched your name

[@sheepthehack]

I would have removed the boring STATS potions.. and come up with 3 or 4 DEBUFFS and 3 or 4 BUFFS.. so u basically have an 8 slot BUILD that u will play through the game with made up of these 8 elements.. a good run would be 7 BUFFS a bad one the opposite.. .. each level end. have 1 potion on the table and show people that it runs through them all and then stops on a random one.. u then drink this for the next part of the game!

[@j1y25]

From how much I hear his voice with him creating game in the background, I can't link his voice with him talking. It feels like he is moving his moth to act what the voice say.

[@ZooHair]

Awesome

[@Seven0587]

this is good

[@swaggerdude]

you didnt even watch it

[@Seven0587]

yes i did

[@swaggerdude]

@@Seven0587 no you didnt brah you wrote the comment 5 minutes after the minute was uploaded you sneaky pete

[@Seven0587]

@@swaggerdude i misspelled

[@Seven0587]

@@swaggerdude and i wach it on my tv

[@TrueJaboOfficial]

You should revisit your old games and remake or fix them

[@BloodyScythe666]

do you have thoughts on if and how this game idea would be recoverable? and what changes would you make for it to be more enjoyable? or is it just a plain bad game idea and can't be improved upon?

[@asodiacayve6101]

Cool Video

[@YouTubeSFscript]

Let’s go ❤

[@joshuabreakingbury1927]

I don't think you could have done the health system any other way, because the player could sacrifice all of their health and softlock the game.

[@BloodyScythe666]

you could have a check to disable the health potion for when you have 1 hp but then you would need to make it conditionally non-clickable and maybe grey it out, which is work, of course, but it would be possible.

[@BeyondSleepy]

Or you could have a game over screen where the player dies when they sacrificed their last bit of health, are petrified if they sacrifice all speed, and with strength … idk, just a an image of them getting stomped on?

[@Atropos148]

@@BeyondSleepy for 0 strength you could have an animation of the player struggling to open the standard wooden door that leads to the next level

[@ImNotGam]

Good video... that I totally did in fact watch completely and am not watching right now!

[@prayk11]

What if instead of just sacrificing one of the skills, you actually sacrifice one skill to increase the power of another skill?

[@coolmatt-jq4in]

Hi

[@m1k3_dev]

Hey there how's it going

[@YkramNamelloh]

The concept could work by getting the player more emotionally invested in the sacrifices being made. Have the Sprite become more and more haggard-looking a la Frodo in Mordor. Animate the drinking of the sacrifice potions with choking and crying.

[@TimConceivable]

i don't know what you're talking about... this game is fun! getting weaker means you have to rethink your play strategy every level. seems like a really interesting mechanic to me. the main thing that i don't like is that the attack has a very small range and there is no knockback on the enemies when you hit them, so it becomes a bit difficult to hit the fast ones without them running into you. also i kept running into the boss when trying to hit it. it's hitbox seems a little off maybe? or maybe i just need to git gud idk.

[@Jachii9]

oh my god i forgot this guy existed

[@A08J]

Hey Vimlark, can you please make a construct 3 tutorial series, I used to use GDevelop and after switching to construct, I am confused. I can't even get a button to function

[@woodenfoundation1465]

:)

[@rawkth5996]

fourth.

[@DissonantSynth]

Just my opinion, but I think you're being completely too harsh with the critiques. I think the game's mechanics are fun and interesting, they just need a little bit more variety.