The Jayson Tatum discourse is getting weird

[@samuelrhee2625]

I think you not thinking Tatum has a signature moment in the last 5 years is a product of how the NBA is consumed - he doesnt really have soundbites or talk a lot of shit on the court, his signature moments are typically limited to the on-court product - he scored the most points in a game 7 ever, outdueled Kevin Durant en route to a sweep, etc. It's just that he's not someone whose big moments translate to Twitter clips. That and as you mentioned many times, the celtics just aren't liked by many people

[@jordan12118]

Yeah that’s a crazy thing to say. 51 against the Sixers in game 7, 46 on the road against the Bucks in game 6 down 3-2. Tatum definitely has signature moments

[@seanaes]

Yea that was a wild statement

[@uoooogg2148]

YUO

[@uoooogg2148]

YUP

[@dominique8655]

yeah i stg people don’t like him as much bc he’s an introvert.. also he has a kid so he doesn’t have a lot of time to engage with certain outlets that show his personality more

[@BMax15]

Tatum gets unfairly disrespected for the same things other stars get free passes for. People use the fact he's made 5 ECFs at 26 years old against him while calling SGA, who is only a few months younger than him, the next up and coming star. Ant can coast for an entire game 7 because he's tired, but Tatum has a bad few minutes in a game and it's all anyone can talk about. I don't even like bringing them up because SGA and Ant are awesome, but the discourse is nothing but hot takes. I understand he's not perfect, but Tatum is a superstar on the best team in the league and gets no recognition for it because he's "boring." The way people that don't like him talk about his game is so disingenuous and just proves how reactionary and desperate sports media is these days.

[@SilkyLew]

I think it's just wierdos who don't even watch basketball. Even SGA is getting weird hate all of a sudden. Lol. This is the era of hating

[@DitoCapsuleFan]

“Ant can coast for an entire game 7” he won? You want ant to catch flack for not scoring 20 points in a game?

[@BMax15]

@@DitoCapsuleFan no, that's my point. Ant rightfully gets the respect he deserves, even if his shot isn't falling, for the impact he has on the game. Tatum doesn't get that same respect and it's hella lame that's it's just bc people don't like him or the Celtics or find him boring. I should've used a word other than coast. Wasn't tryna knock Ant, just pointing out the hypocrisy

[@SchulzEricT]

@@DitoCapsuleFan I mean, the non-Jokic, non-Murray Nuggets scored 21 points. The non-Ant, non-KAT Wolves scored 59! Imagine if Tatum did that shit with Brown, lost a game 7 where the rest of their team scored 21 and they lost. He'd be fucking ROASTED! OR if he scored 16 while his man scored 36? Imagine that. Even if they won, he'd be ROASTED. Wouldn't he? (We just saw him take a ton of shit because Jaylen Brown scored 40. Wild.) It's very stupid. And Ant has now had two bad games in a row, SGA got eliminated... but NBA fans are so quick to try to elevate both over Tatum even though in no way is that reasonable: not offensively, not defensively, not individual accolades, not team success, not consistency. It's fucking wild.

[@kampagnepapi]

NBA Twitter is just insanely toxic and national media (mainly ESPN) piggybacks off of that toxicity for clicks. Sad but true. We are entering a new era of NBA and it feels like no one is safe from the hating anymore lol.

[@jeffcressotti]

He’s just hitting his prime btw. He’s everything a franchise would want in a player. He’s consistent, he makes good decisions on and off the court, he’s durable (which is highly underrated), he’s talented, he’s a 2 way player, and he’s involved in good charitable things away from the game. I’m sure there’s more I could include but the point is there.

[@tyemccatty763]

If the Celtics win this ring the narrative will change about Tatum just like it did with Giannas and Jokic

[@themace2055]

I'm a Boston fan and the way Tatum is covered is insane. He's been slandered for having great games while Ant has been awful for tow straight games and is getting praised and excused for his 12-40 over two straight games

[@Christian-eq6pq]

Because ANT isn’t a top 5 player and is more so a top 10 player. Brunson, Hali, and SGA are in a similar boat where they don’t get the criticism because people know they’re borderline top 5 but more so just in the top 10. Tatum is the only player who isn’t viewed as top 5 but gets LeBron level expectations.

[@theeyetest1704]

Comparing that bum Tatum to Anthony Edwards you must be insane lmao

[@themace2055]

@@Christian-eq6pq ANT is getting Jordan comps while simultaneously getting excuses for playing like shit. It’s one or the other

[@themace2055]

@@theeyetest1704 5/15, 6/24, 6/24. Tour dates or 3 out of Ant’s past 4 shooting splits?????

[@Recurses]

It's sad a 6'9 player who's in his prime with the best spacing in the league is being compared to a 22 year old ant on a terrible offensive team and he's getting blitzed every game it's sad this is why tatum is not top 10 and not close to top 5 9-20 being 6'9 against a terrible defense

[@rickyrojas6147]

"the Jayson Tatum discourse is getting weird"..... *proceeds to make several weird points about Jayson Tatum for 20 minutes*

[@Turk6417]

Scored 36 points in game 1 and still got slandered 😂

[@MonsieurBooyah]

the tatum discourse is a direct result of 3 things: - selective memory about past stars. they all had bad games. they all had failures. they all had other stars on their teams. - two decades of inexplicable kobe worship. dude pushed out the best player on his team (shaq) to get more spotlight, then couldn't win again until he finally got other stars on the team. - kevin durant's... just... everything.

[@branflakes227]

That Kobe point was so true I always thought he was overrated but...Too soon

[@queenautumnween2796]

Yeah I don't understand the fact that Tatum is getting hate for being on a good team. Kobe could have a bad game in the three peat era Lakers and still win games because they had the best big in the league in shaq on the team. Ant has been getting tons of praise, rightfully so, for his performance in the playoffs, but he also has the raining dpoy and KAT on this team, so with that same logic, shouldn't he be getting the Tatum treatment as well? Why should Tatum be getting hate for being on a good team? It makes no sense. He didn't leave to join an already stacked team. He isn't a locker room cancer. The team didn't sign super star players to pair with Tatum, the guys they picked up this year (jrue and porzingus) aren't super star players and are just players that are a good fit for the team. I would understand the hate if he pulled a KD or james harden or LeBron and joined a super team to get a ring, but he is doing this while staying on the team that drafted him.

[@engar-dug5197]

The crazy thing is that the minutes that Tatum's on/off for this playoff is the 2nd best for the team behind Jrue Holiday at this moment. The Celtics average a +13 net rating when he's playing, and only +3.5 when he's sitting. At a certain point you have to acknowledge that even if his shots not falling, there is so much else that's happening on the court because of his presence--Gravity, playmaking, defense, ect. These on-off numbers are absolutely FLIPPED if you look at guys like Brown and White. Maybe it's not the most glamorous way to win a championship but the scoreboard don't lie. Also, I hate the "He only plays well in the 2nd half when the team is already up by 15". As if we didn't just watch the Timberwolves, down 20, absolutely route the Nuggets in the 2nd half to win game 7. Every minute counts until the opposing team throws in the towel.

[@ethanmartin1719]

NBA fans when a superteam wins: 😡 NBA fans when a well-balanced team wins: 😡

[@kurtking8046]

The NBA is the only league where having a good/great team around a star is seen as a bad thing. I live in WI If the Packers signed Justin Jefferson and Derrick Henry right now no one would be talking about how this looks bad for loves legacy because he needed help to win a title

[@statik4961]

@@kurtking8046 A single player can affect a basketball game way more than any single person on an NFL team, especially considering you have to literally sit during defense. No one hates a well built team like the Nuggets or even the previous Celtics with Marcus Smart & Rob Will. It's when you start trading away a core for multiple stars(2024 Celtics & Suns) or acquiring more stars to an already built core (KD GSW Miami Lebron) is when discourse happens.

[@tkdmanbb185]

⁠@@kurtking8046counterpoint all the people calling Brock Purdy a system QB because he had an absolutely stacked offense with CMC, Deebo Samuel, George Kittle, Brandon Aiyuk, and Trent Williams, instead of simply admitting he was a good player who slipped because scouting and drafting quarterbacks is fluky as hell.

[@kurtking8046]

@@tkdmanbb185 I hate the system QB argument. That's another example of people acting like a well built team is a bad thing. Brady had a damn good system around him and won 6 titles. Mahomes has a system around him that's dominating the league. Rodgers didn't have a concert system in GB and only won 1 title.

[@tkdmanbb185]

@@kurtking8046 Mahomes didn’t really have any notable defenses until the past season but other than that I agree.

[@JDubs1464]

As a Celtics fan, I would never say Tatum makes me feel nothing, but I think the lack of actually conversation(ie. Not glazing or hating) just leaves me forgetting how good he is. That being said, I hate the narrative that Ant has and the Ant > Tatum argument, because what has Ant done at his age that Tatum wasn’t doing? Just because Tatum is relatively boring compared to Ant, doesn’t mean he’s worse. Tatum is still one of the best scorers and defenders in the league, especially at the forward position. So to hear Ant get all this glazing after just over one good season rubs me the wrong way

[@ACE_1923]

After tonight we should never hear another Ant over anybody debate not for awhile the way he handed Dallas the game with putrid shooting and especially that late turnover Ant will be a great player someday but it ain’t today

[@joshprice7527]

kofie he had 50 in an elimination game in 2022 50 in a game 72023 how is that not memorable😭

[@joshprice7527]

he had 46 my bad but same thing😂

[@richborn6700]

​@@joshprice7527apparently it's not that memorable if you can't even remember his box score 🤔🤣

[@alexandermendez4653]

​@@joshprice7527he did have 50.

[@yummyfunnybunny5167]

​@@richborn6700 he still remembered the game and Tatum's performance though 🤔😂

[@connorrussell2084]

While I appreciate the honesty I feel like that’s a bit disingenuous to say Tatum doesnt have signature moments since he dunked on Lebron when he had that game winning layup vs the nets, the 46 point game 6 vs the bucks in elimination, that massive 4th quarter vs the 76ers after shooting horribly, stating “humbly I’m one of the best basketball players in the world” then dropping 51 points in game 7… there have been his fair share of moments for Tatum, but people give credit to other guys for saying cocky things but then go at Tatum for it....

[@matthiasameer]

I love how most of Kofie content is “Sports media is getting out of hand on this topic”

[@thatguyforte]

It's very redundant

[@Conquistador76]

I’m completely here for it. I don’t watch mainstream sports coverage anymore. SB Nation is cool tho!

[@richborn6700]

Yes but a lot of the video feels like it can be condensed a good five to six minutes

[@shadowmenace1672]

We saw what happens when Tatum goes down. Maybe this roster is slightly better than last year but Brown absolutely folded when he became the focal point on offense. Teams aren’t doubling JB Derrick White etc like they do JT. JT is silent but I think a lot of other aspects of his game is overlooked. His scoring can be inconsistent at times but he does so much for Boston that you aren’t getting from Brown. He has a really good team but so did Steph. Had Klay and Draymond and eventually KD😂.

[@mosessupposes2571]

Some fans prefer flash over substance. It’s the era of the drama queen.

[@jasonmartinez2730]

Honestly, Brown had a game we expect from Ant or Luka and the discourse is solely about JT having a game that was ok at worst. JT hate is getting to meme levels atp

[@nikosclips.]

You got superstars with front offices that will fail at putting competitive rosters around them but God forbid you have a front office like the Celtics where you have a complete team to try and win and for some people that's the excuse they use to bring down Tatum when it comes to individual comparisons of other players. I truly don't understand why NBA fans hate basketball.

[@richborn6700]

People hate seeing the same faces over and over. Boston consistently being in the ECF is reminiscent of the chokehold Cavs/Warriors of the 2010s or the NFL with the Brady era and now Mahomes eras in the 2020s.

[@CaiominTwin]

i think the "he can be afforded bad games" is disingenuous. he often gets the most defensive attention because of his earned reputation. so he passes out of doubles, and gets more pressure at the rim. so as a result, he doesn't drop 40 like brunson but instead relies on his teammates. he shouldnt be punished for having a good roster. the other thing is it makes non-fans miss the actual critiques of Tatum's game. calling him boring is missing the point. to me his biggest flaw is resorting to hero ball and stopping the ball movement at inopportune times

[@wyattjohnsen7114]

I agree, I wouldn't say Tatum's boring but he certainly doesn't play into much of the theatrics the sport can have, especially compared to Ant or the Thunder squad. However I do think Tatum (and maybe the C's in general) are way more "professional" than those guys if that makes sense. For all the Kobe comparisons, I think he's far closer in personality to Tim Duncan. And a specific aspect of his hero ball I hate is that fade away from the paint, like yeah it's sick when he's money, but its not the most consistent and i swear I've seen him miss one and then on next possession or two just do the same thing again, like wat.

[@pangobara8182]

The being able to have bad games thing is interesting when you consider him being known for being a Kobe lover. It was something Kobe could often afford to do early in his career as well especially considering he was next to an all-time great.

[@Whyzee12]

Kobe shot like 6/26 in Game 7 in 2010, which they won. What are you talking about.

[@ejp507]

@@Whyzee12man please don’t let Kobe meat riders see this, they gon think you somehow comparing him to Kobe 😂

[@pangobara8182]

@Whyzee12 , I just meant he could especially have bad games early on. Not that he could never have bad game later in his career either lmao

[@uoooogg2148]

u said u remember JT dunking on bron yet he had 50 POINTS ON PHILLY TO SEND HARDEN N EMBIDD HOME SO U DONT WATCH TATUM CASUAL

[@Christian-eq6pq]

Not even that, I remember him giving Giannis, proclaimed best player on the planet and defending champ,the business and sending him home

[@camden5870]

not moved

[@uoooogg2148]

@@Christian-eq6pq dat 2

[@uoooogg2148]

@@camden5870 hating atp u need help

[@uoooogg2148]

@@camden5870 u might be gay or sum

[@lewisgreenstein]

Celtics fan. I think people are right about how good jt is, but wrong about what makes him that good. He's thought of as an elite scorer, but really he's a good scorer who has no weaknesses and is good at everything

[@RiloXRi]

He Definitely has multiple weakness, like shot selection, his perimeter defense this year has been god awful getting blown by all the time and inconsistent shooting, and lack of that dawg and aggresivness he just disappers in the game almost at times. Thats just 4. But what else would u expect a celtics fan to say but the most biased thing possible and say he has zero weaknesses.

[@lewisgreenstein]

@@RiloXRi I agree with you on the shot selection, but that is a team wide issue, Joe Maz gets a ton of blame for that too, same thing with like his perceived offensive aggressiveness, if tatum is having a bad shooting night, why make him shoot himself out of it, when you have all their other starters at your disposal. His shooting is fine, but he also only shoots the stupidest toughest shots, he'd be a good shooter if his role was like MPJ. But idk what to tell you about the defense. Respectfully youre wrong on that one. His defense on SGA kind of single handedly turned the game around in okc. Obviously Tyrese Maxey might be able get by him sometimes, but if he could lock down jitterbug pointgaurds 100% of the time hed be prime Kawhi Leanord. He's like 6'9" strong so he rotates down as additional rim protection help really well. I guess we disagree on the definition of weakness

[@boussie]

I think the thing about Tatum not having signature moments translates more to not having signature highlights. He has plenty of signature games, but that’s not what Twitter is gonna see on their timeline outside of a box score. Game 6 vs. the bucks down 3-2 when he dropped 46, game 7 vs. Philly with 51, game 6 vs. Philly when he outscored them in the 4th after having a stinker. He’s got plenty of great performances, just not single clips that the casual fan can latch onto

[@antichaos]

I believe that the disinterest towards Tatum is a byproduct of modern audiences not being willing to change their perception of a player unless they are brute forced. Tatum could’ve been averaging a 40 point triple double throughout the playoffs and fans still wouldn’t care because they would be twirling their thumbs waiting for him to eventually choke or play terribly in the finals just because he did it before.

[@jideobiodobulu8462]

I personally really like Tatum. Since he’s come in the league he and the Celtics have been very successful. Looking like he’s on his way to his 2nd finals appearance and his overall game to me is exciting. I do think it’s a bias, cause just last year he dropped 50 in a close out game against the sixers.

[@phantom_isle]

I need psychologists to look into why Tatum specifically gets as much hate as he does, because it's truly wild. The only player that comes to mind that has gotten this much hate as a young star is LeBron. Obviously not to the same level of LeBron, but just as unwarranted in a lot of ways.

[@denigster]

you name the perfect example - sad that you dont get it - BOTH of them are hyped by their fans to be something which they are not - and thats makes people hate them - like why in hell are you comparring him to lebron!

[@phantom_isle]

@@denigster if you think I'm comparing his actual on the court play to LeBron, then you're completely missing the point

[@unhhgcrxexhjvuvujchcrzwzwz7956]

It does feel lebron esque it’s weird

[@ejp507]

@@phantom_islea lot of people miss that point, they think anytime you bring up any all time great to prove a point they think your immediately comparing them to that guy. Or the “why are you putting them into the same convo” Well cause historically he’s been on track to break records and he has been, we supposed to ignore facts just cause you don’t like the guy personally? Yea he’s going to be in certain convos whether you like it or not cause he’s getting the numbers to back him😂 You try and use basic logic/common sense, simple analogies, and they just equate it to sum form of disrespect towards their favorite player of all time.

[@ejp507]

@@denigsterbut what have JT fans hyped him up to be that he’s not? It seems like most of the hate stemmed from him posting that Kobe text. It could’ve been cringey, but the dude is young. He literally looked up to the guy, he inspired him to be at the point he’s at now. It’s not absurd to have him in MVP convos, he’s been 1st team all nba 3x times now. If you refuse to have him up there then that’s on you, his numbers back up top 5/ top 10 treatment. If you wanna get mad cause you don’t think he’s an MVP caliber guy then you’re just wrong, objectively just wrong. If you wanna be mad over that then go on ahead, keep hating over facts 🤷🏽‍♂️.

[@benaube5946]

I feel you hit the nail on the head when you said Tatum makes you feel nothing. Unless you’re an avid fan or hater of Boston, he’s just… there. I’m totally indifferent to Minnesota, but I’m quickly becoming a big fan of Ant. Same can be said for stars like Luka, Giannis, Jokic, Shai, etc. where whether it’s on the court, off the court, or both, they excite you. I also think that the Tatum hate is a subconscious attempt at overcorrecting the narrative, that being that Tatum belongs in the MVP tier of player. And to be fair, his numbers and record support that. Having a great team around him shouldn’t be a knock on him. But when talking about most *valuable* player, it’s hard to see him in the same light as any other top 10-15 player in the league. If the Nuggets lose Jokic, or Dallas with Luka, they’re cooked, like you said. If the Celtics went a whole season without Tatum, they’re still probably a 50 win team with an ECF appearance. It feels jarring to think of Tatum as equally as valuable to his team as any other superstar, even though he doesn’t deserve that. So when fans hear ESPN talking heads shouting that Tatum should be the MVP in February, there’s a pushback. One where detractors will grasp at straws to discredit him because they feel he’s been over-credited for Boston’s success. All while Tatum is just minding his own business and taking side step threes. He’s somehow managed to become incredibly polarizing despite simultaneously making us feel nothing.

[@ACE_1923]

Sounds like a description of Tim Duncan the best Pf of all time but is slandered for being “boring” his best rings are called “filler rings” and any time you have a debate on top players everyone forgets him unless you bring him up and they say “yeah Tim was decent” Tatum isn’t nearly as good as Tim Duncan it’s not what I’m saying but what I am saying is Tatum is getting the Tim Duncan slander in a era where hating on athletes is fun and that’s just not fair

[@richborn6700]

​@@ACE_1923anyone who calls Duncan's rings filler is also probably arguing the legitimatcy of the 2020 Bubble title

[@TanoookiMario377]

Crazy he’s done all this at only 19 yrs old

[@RasenKamehamehaX100]

I'll say this right now, I strongly disagree with the Super Team talk. Winning 60+ games doesn't make a super team. If it did, then you're saying - The 04/05 Phoenix Suns (62-20) - The 05/06 San Antonio Spurs (63-19) - The 05/06 Detroit Pistons (64-18) - The 06/07 Dallas Mavericks (67-15) - The 07/08 Boston Celtics (66-16) - The 08/09 Cleveland Cavaliers (66-16) - The 08/09 Los Angeles Lakers (65-17) - The 11/10 Chicago Bulls (62-20) - The 12/13 Miami Heat (66-16) - The 13/14 San Antonio Spurs (62-20) - The 14/15 Golden State Warriors (67-15) - The 15/16 San Antonio Spurs (67-15) - The 15/16 Golden State Warriors (73-9) - The 18/18 Houston Rockets (65-17) - The 21/22 Phoenix Suns (64-18) Were all super teams, which if you think all of them were super teams, then we've lost the plot on what makes a Super Team a Super Team. Super Teams are insanely stacked teams that based on talent alone should steam roll their way to a title barring injuries. The Celtics are not that. The Nuggets, The Wolves, The Bucks and now people are suggesting even Dallas, were/are viable threats to the Celtics' title hopes this year. A super team doesn't have multiple teams that can threaten their title hopes even if they're healthy.

[@Redcrimson177]

Speaking as a Boston fan. I think the thing that bugs people about Tatum is that he doesn't really act like he's an NBA superstar. He just doesn't have the demeanor that fans expect him to have. I don't think I've ever seen him get in someone's face on the court, or step over somebody after dunking on them, or pulling out the Steph Curry goodnight pose or whatever. He talks more trash to the refs than he does to the other team. He genuinely seems like a nice, well-adjusted, mellow dude. He's not a borderline Psychopath like Jordan or Kobe or Bird where they went into every single game with the objective of making the other team sorry they showed up. I think the reason people get so worked up about the 'Tatum getting carried' thing is because there's no indication that Tatum would actually be upset that his team carried him to a title. Tatum just wants to hoop. And I think it just triggers people, for lack of a better word, to see one of the 5-10 best players on Planet Earth play like he's just kinda happy he gets to be on the court

[@superQman600]

How does being overly animated make you a nba superstar? There’s plenty of super stars that don’t get in peoples faces or do signature celebrations. He’s definitely been mad/annoyed when they lost . Not really sure what you mean.

[@Averagedre]

@@superQman600we are in the tik tok era my man personality aura and chrisma are now things needed to be included when discussing basketball lol

[@MO-rl9gl]

Honestly he’s just a boring player who plays for the most hated team. No one actually hates him. He’s just a player that people have fun dismissing.

[@bipblopblap]

People said the same thing to Tim Duncan. "Boring player playing in a boring team. "

[@jahcode6132]

People hated Tim Duncan, after he retired we were able to look back and be like “yeah he was pretty fuckin good tho”.

[@austinstewart5098]

@@bipblopblapbad comparison. Timmy won multiple rings at this point in his career. There was def a hatred because of success in Tim Duncan’s case

[@zay222True]

Tatum is not boring 😂

[@MO-rl9gl]

@@bipblopblaptbh I personally dismiss players whose games I don’t enjoy watching. Tatum is one of them. I just pretend he don’t know exist. He seems like a nice guy tho

[@SHOWMEREAL]

All i know is if it was lebron who dropped 51 in a game 7 last year would still be talking about it, tatum did and it was a signature moment yet everyone forgot so quick.

[@joshthoughts6177]

Tatum is keyed in on by opposing defenses and often has two or three defenders paying attention to him. you say that if Tatum goes 2 for 13 his team can overcome that, but if he goes down completely the Celtics are cooked. It’s because he brings a lot on the defensive end of the floor as well. this game is looked so much through the lens of offensive basketball and it’s one of the reasons that Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum are underrated by some, other stars (that aren’t centers) can’t defend like those two guys in most cases.

[@qvalue9982]

Watching Tatum drain threes right in KD's face is a thousand times more exciting than his boring ass video

[@henryg4315]

Jayson just a good dad and basketball player. Fans are delusional for caring bout aura over his play when he isnt problematic in the slightest.

[@16960734]

God i hope we win it all this year and shut everyone up (they will never shut up)

[@DitoCapsuleFan]

Basically admitting you know the clerics are losing this year 😂

[@16960734]

@@DitoCapsuleFan no i just know that even if we win everyone will be like “easiest path to the finals” “mickey mouse run” because i know how people are.

[@Averagedre]

watch the switch go from “Boston isnt beating anybody from the west they are the superior conference” to “of course they were going to win they needed a superteam to win a ring” real quick

[@rossgatzke5929]

"We?" You got a mouse in your pocket, buddy?

[@16960734]

@@rossgatzke5929 im a celtics fan. Leave that dumb “ur not on the team” schtick in 2012 where it belongs.

[@SyxxPunk]

Taytum is the embodiment of "jack of all trades, master of none is still better than being a master of one"

[@serisothikos]

Boston sports in particular is so wild because we love to talk ourselves out of great players for absolutely no reason. He's a fantastic player but everyone loses their mind about rings. He isn't a flashy player - and don't get me wrong, I love flashy players - he's just relentlessly very good to great. He's who you build a franchise around.

[@AHSpolitics]

I guess I’ve always just preferred other stars like Jimmy Butler, Jokic, Curry, etc. It’s not that I particularly dislike Jayson Tatum, I just prefer other more iconic stars.

[@charlie_541]

yea but theres a difference between not caring about a star and HATING a star. Nothing wrong with not giving af about Tatum, its just weird that some people spend so much energy on hating on him

[@trillavanilla3425]

all those are good but lost me at jimmy. im sorry

[@CTEagleCeltic]

Bro, you can’t watch the ECF and ignore the Celtics… we’ve been there every year. That’s some weird math.

[@richborn6700]

It's why people are sick of the Celtics. It's like when the regular season was a formality in the 2010s because itd always end with LeBron in the finals against Golden State or San Antonio. Or over in the NFL when Brady would consistently be in the Superbowl for years before Mahomes took over. Now the Chiefs have been consistently good and everyone hates them. Consistent success breeds contempt

[@gotworc]

​@@richborn6700literally what I've been saying the Celtics have consistently been good and JT has consistently been good. People are tired of it for whatever reason

[@mctaguer]

He also plays every day. How many stars took 10-15 games off this year or just couldn't play enough to even qualify for awards? A taken-for-granted, but important thing no one seems to account for. Tatum's style of play is part of it. His greatest value is he's a Swiss Army Knife. Most of those "stinkers" (which there really aren't that many) are also games where he played great defensively or had a lot of hockey assists.

[@LogjammerDbaggagecling-qr5ds]

I guess dropping 50 points in an elimination playoff game isn't a signature moment.

[@brycemoton55]

Jayson Tatum is the first superstar player with no aura since Tim Duncan. He’s the best player on the best team and that’s pretty much his identity. I think people see his stats (and even the way he plays) and constantly look for that *superstar* quality that transcends basketball, but it’s just not there. Jayson Tatum is an elite basketball player and that’s it, and that’s ok.

[@BrendanHenry-vm4il]

What you want him to do start twerking after a made basket or smthing?

[@ACE_1923]

We are seeing with Tatum what would happen if Duncan played today in a era where hating on athletes is fun Duncan already gets slandered for being “boring” and having “filler rings” it’s not fair nba fans are the most toxic in any sport period

[@Averagedre]

we are now in the days where a player gets hate/judged for having no “aura”??? lmao jesus christ this isnt the modern era this is the tik tok era

[@Whyzee12]

The Celtics are not a super team. The amount of wins you earn does not make you a super team. By that logic, the 60 win Hawks were

[@jrist15]

Tatum dropped 51 in game 7 last year and 47 down 3-2 in game 6 with Giannis on him. Those are pretty memorable moments imo. He’s relatively humble and quiet off court so people don’t really have a lot to work with with him so they make stuff up

[@SchulzEricT]

He outdueled KD, offensively AND defensively, and swept him, Kyrie, the Brooklyn Nets, and ended that superteam. He scored something like 16 in 4 mins in game 6 vs the "MVP" to send that series to a game 7 In said game 7, he set a record with 51 points. He's one of the 4 or 5 best players in the league, the best F, making 3 straight 1st team All-NBA. The discourse is STUPID. Somebody else said: what is a positive for other players is a negative for Tatum when he does it MORE. SGA makes a Conference Final? The new up-and-coming star!!! Tatum has 5 ECF and 1 NBA Finals appearance? Where's his ring; what a loser. Kyrie is this awesome sidekick to Luka and has a big hand in closing out some games vs OKC: wow, FINALLY Luka has some help. Jaylen Brown is awesome and puts up 40; man, Tatum is getting carried by his teammate, he's actually the sidekick. Kyrie has an 11 point game; man, he impacted the game in so many ways beyond scoring; Tatum has 23-6-5 with elite defense; why isn't he scoring 35 every game? People are STUPID.

[@SchulzEricT]

First, I'd say there's a difference between ROSTER, ORGANIZATION, and FRANCHISE There's been times I've hated a FRANCHISE but they revamped their roster and added enough players I like since I first started hating that organization that I actually like the roster (at least more than I don't like it). (Part of the lingering hate is history, part is the fandom.) I'd say the ORGANIZATION is just the coach, GM, owner, etc. There are definitely teams whose ORGANIZATION deserves hate even if neither the FRANCHISE nor the ROSTER does; Washington's football pre-Snyder selling, ditto Suns with their previous owner, ditto Clippers with theirs, etc. So... I don't understand not liking the Celtics, not finding them fun to watch. I can understand SOMETIMES finding them frustrating to watch, since their end of game offense can stagnate, for sure. I can understand not finding it interesting to talk about them, especially this season, because there isn't much to say: they're awesome, their starters are crazy talented 1-5, few teams have been favored to make it to the Conference Finals more than the Celtics this year and deservedly so. There's not much to talk about. But if you don't think they're fun to watch... you don't like defense? I LOVE defense.

[@TunaMan-mg1kz]

Tatum also doesn't really miss games, so you never really have to see what it's like without him. Not saying that we aren't good without him but I promise Jaylen Brown running your offense will not get you to a 64 win season. like they're 7-1 without him this season, but 6/7 of those wins were against

[@bee-kt2ys]

from a fandom perspective (full disclosure i am celtics fan) the most inoffensive superstar in nba history getting put on the most hated franchise in nba history is honestly fascinating

[@anthonyemerson2965]

Kofie's fits getting more iconic with each passing video

[@HatTrickSwayzee]

It's crazy that he has had so much coverage and is still only 19 years old. Amazing!

[@ethanwhitman7956]

Not gonna lie mad respect for making a 20 minute video about Jayson Tatum to explain why you don’t care about Jayson Tatum

[@roshango125ab]

Last night was part of a very annoying phenomenon of the last few years. If you actually watch the Celtics regularly, Tatum is the best player in like 70% of their games. But every time there is a night where Jaylen Brown steps up and takes over when Tatum is off or just playing average, a a bunch of people come out of the woodwork to tell you that Tatum is a bum and Brown should be they guy. Just completely overreacting to one game in a massive sample doesn't really make your point. Idk if it's just hate or because Brown plays with more swagger, so it's more memorable than the average Tatum performance, so it sticks in their heads more. But last night was a perfect example. The last 5 games piror to last night, Tatum averaged 30.5 point, 10.6 rebounds, and was playing amazing defense. Brown was averaging around 22.5 points and hasnt had a 10 rebound game in the playoffs yet. Hes been a fantastic #2 behind Tatum whos hit big shots in big moments. But the idea that he's "carryint tatum" is so dumb when you actual pay attention to the games instead of getting excited because one game happened that proves your agenda. It's also just annoying because Brown has become a superstar in his own right and it's like, can we give a man his flowers without having to turn it into another Tatum hate campaign? When Jamal Murry has a crazy night, do we turn it into an anti Jokic thing?

[@colin13230]

He feels the Celtics aren’t “compelling” because they just win so much, you’re only going to like the Celtics if you’re a Celtics fan because they blow everyone out by 20+ points every other game so there not close games and they seem less exciting (except if you’re a Celtics fan)

[@kapowjam3462]

Same Kofie. Except I forgot he had a kid and then I saw with the kid and remembered he has a really cute kid.

[@BOS_C.O.]

Honestly, it's just a symptom of modern-day sports discourse where people will hype and build up a players/teams but then immediately switch up and tear them down.Its even worse for Tatum since he's already on a team that everyone already hates. Like critiquing and even trolling is fine, but it's getting to a point where it's like do people even like the sport, lol.

[@franciscobenitez70]

Cap if Tatum was on the pistons poverty franchise you would be glazing him

[@nolanjohnson2009]

This is just what I overheard some guys say about JT. He plays like a light skin, He is mad skilled tho but he plays like a light skin.

[@X_Online801]

The things is Tatum plays for the Celtics and only Celtics fans like the Celtics. Despite having signature moments in the playoffs and great individual games - he also goes missing in certain moments were he should take over a game. Me personally I don’t see it with him I acknowledge how good he is and how good he’s been for years now, but I just don’t believe he’s a special basketball player.

[@patrickshuman718]

Your point about Tatum only choosing 2/3 levels to score is on point. As a Celtics/Tatum fan my knock on both him and Brown is that sometimes they force shots or try to iso when they should be using each other and the team to find better looks

[@ithurtsdoesntit]

The Jayson Tatum narrative has been so loud that everyone ignores that Jaylen Brown exist.

[@dgc622]

I just feel like last nights Pacers game was a perfect example of a Tatum game. Celtics are up the entire game with Tatum plays like buns. Was 2/8 until late in the 3rd quarter with 4 points, then still ends up with 23 points when scrubs are in in the 4th quarter. I think people don’t love him because it doesn’t seem like he really “leads” the Celtics to wins. It’s so hard to explain, but it feels that way when I watch the Celtics play

[@dgc622]

Ope right after I say that, Kofie brings up the Tatum cycle of front running hahaha

[@guylittlefield3354]

Winning that first ring is so important it’ll be interesting to see the discourse around Tatum if they don’t win. So many people and maybe rightfully so will say that any of the top players would easily win with his team.

[@henryg4315]

I think comparing/hating on nba players based on "aura" dehumanizes them and helps their game go ignored for no reason

[@adami6]

The frustrating thing for me is that he clearly has the talent of a superstar like Kobe, but his mentality isn’t remotely comparable. If you gave him the real mamba mentality he’d already have an MVP and a ring by now.

[@hunterbolger8153]

I would argue that you are both crediting Jayson Tatum as a Superstar (something he most definitely is, like his game or not) and someone that doesnt have superstar “moments” and who doesnt always have to play like a superstar to win. Its also fair to note that his lack of ability to step up has cost them in the last couple years, like against the Heat last year and that hole they dug, as well as in his first NBA Finals. In my eyes, its all about winning when it comes to perception-based conversations like this, and people would be more willing to forgive Tatum for what can be seen as an easier path for a superstar if he were able to win. We saw something similar with Steph a few years ago where a single doubt made people critical of his whole game, and he fixed that by winning on his own and finally playing up to expectations in the Finals.

[@seanaes]

I’ll never understand “hating” an organization or player. Just enjoy basketball

[@dalesabandal9113]

Celtics fan here. I think the Celtics being a boring team to watch is a symptom of a much larger problem being the Eastern Conference is such a boring conference to watch. If i didnt like the Celtics id feel nothing about Philly, Milwaukee, Brooklyn, or Miami. Its sad to see that most interesting teams in the east are either bad (chicago), rebuilding (toronto), or are cursed (new york). It’s gotten to the point where i sleep through the celtics games this ecf cuz i kinda know how it goes but the wcf i religiously watch cuz its a legit episode of dbz

[@RunicBlade98]

I think that you said it best when you brought up that the media (mainstream and social) only cares about superstars, and they forget that basketball is a team sport. Tatum is only one piece of the 8-headed monster that the Celtics put together in the off-season. When Tatum has an "off game" the Celtics still have Brown, White, Horford, Holiday, Porzingis, Pritchard, and Hauser. Tatum isn't always going to be the best player on the Celtics every night. He's just one part of the best team in the league.

[@m33nboy]

First 5 min is basically "I don't watch Tatum and idk anything about him," in a video about Tatum lol

[@samthibault4229]

40-50 players more entertaining is INSANE. That’s clear Celtics bias lmao. Oh well

[@dariuslynard158]

I'm a Celtics fan and Jayson Tatum is a victim of early success in the league. The Celtics have done an excellent job team building with each phase of the squad. People see ECF appearances and 1 Finals appearance. Now this year, with injuries he can't control, this run is being written off

[@embracethemartiian]

i am a natural tatum hater due to my knicks allegiance, but in my utmost attempt to be unbiased, i do find his game to be rather boring from an entertainment perspective. don't get me wrong, he is a piece i would love to have on my team and be a number one or two option; he is a winner undoubtedly. but i guess i find him to be more of a "jack of all trades, master of none" when it comes to his game. guys like curry who can shoot from anywhere, jokic who is a generational passing big man, and giannis who can finish at the rim with such force, those are the guys that make the NBA must-watch tv. to me, tatum doesn't really have that stand-out skill set that makes him exciting to watch. if anything, i feel like he doesnt drive to the basket as much as he should for someone with a very good handle and 6'9" frame. i think if he were to bulk up and drive more to the hoop, it would make him an even more dangerous and exciting player to watch

[@Averagedre]

the superstar on your favorite team must be “boring” to you then correct? if im getting this right for someone to not be boring to you they have to be the master at at least one thing which Brunson is not I think this is just a take with a lot of bias involved which is understandable because he plays for the Celtics

[@nathanwashington9784]

Hey Kofie, loving the playoff videos recently and really appreciate your insight into the sports media side of things. After your last Knicks/Stephen A video, I’d love to know your thoughts on Draymond appearing on Inside the NBA for the Wolves/Mavs series considering his clear and ridiculous Rudy Gobert bias, as it feels like it’s completely tainting the whole program and changing the energy of the coverage.

[@anthonys3892]

This dude gets weirded out a lot

[@TheJayTopNotch]

51 points in game 7 last year. Most points in a game 7 EVER….

[@EmmanuelAniTheSchism]

I think it's because you don't watch the Celtics that you don't know that Jayson Tatum has been expanding his game. Yes he dunked on LeBron in 2018, but he also has the record for the most points in a game 7, all the while being in the playoffs since his rookie season and only accruing 7 game 7s -and only losing two of them. He's been having great efficiency from his playoff output since he came into the league, with the exception of the 22 finals and the initial part of this playoff, and yet somehow he's not being given Grace all the while Anthony Edwards and Luka doncic have been playing some mid basketball and getting carried/helped as well

[@bogdanshymanovski]

last memorable thing i remember tatum doing is that game winning layup to sweep KD in 2022

[@s.a.d7882]

Tatum 26 ppl forget most legends won their first chip at 28 stop the hate

[@denigster]

and you forget why they are legends because they are the best not mediocre

[@mussemohamed8175]

@@denigsterPeople keep throwing around the word ‘mediocre’ when they should be saying something else. He’s not the best but I wouldn’t call him a C- level player. Nothing against your take; just arguing semantics.

[@malrese]

I honestly think it’s the conference. If he played in the W people can actually see that he is that guy. He ranks top 3 best player in his conference,But his lackluster performance is what throws people off.

[@ANBUxHunter]

Game 6 &7 against the bucks goes for 46 & 51 how is that not memorable

[@geordiejones5618]

His signature moment is going into the defending champ Bucks' house down 3-2 and dropping 40. Oh and dropping 50 in a game 7 the very next year. Everyone sucked off Curry for doing that even though it was in the first round.

[@TORLBC]

The last great Tatum moment was the 2022 R1 with the spinning layup against Brooklyn for me. But the thing is Tatum is just ... not a crazy outward public personality. Boston has fatal flaws (playing beneath the comp, we've seen them in the ECF persistently since 2017 and still no ring and one final, Tatum with MLB-level playoff slumps) and no relative juicy controversy, so we as hoops fans are waiting on Boston to actually do something that equals their actual quality.

[@ramblingrandomthings]

People love to forget his 50 piece in game 7 last year like he does so much good but no one ever looks at that it isn't even critiquing anymore it's just hate everyone looks at shooting and efficiency but he can have bad games and always will get his rebounds, assists, and is a great defender

[@statik4961]

This is why we dislike Tatum: Brown did not make an All-NBA or All-Defensive team this season. The three-time All-Star has one All-NBA selection under his belt, a second-team nod last year. “I watch guys get praised and anointed who I feel like are half as talented as me on either side of the ball,” Brown said. - Boston News

[@Averagedre]

other than you typing his name in the first 6 words what did this quote have to do with Tatum?

[@superiorvibes4639]

I feel like people who don’t understand the hate (I will say some of it isn’t warranted) also didn’t care he was getting an MVP push. The whole point of the hate is to counter the “Tatum top 3” talks. No one ever wanted to acknowledge that push he got but sees all the hate.

[@Averagedre]

His MVP push narrative was never being top 3 it was the best player on the best team and it never really was a push he cracked the too 3 for a week he has been 5-6 all year outside of that week before all star break(or after can’t remember) and he has been getting hate even before this so that doesn’t make sense

[@zay222True]

Tatum is not boring if anything he the opposite of boring due to him have a great game to a wtf game but he top 3 👌🏾( AND THIS CELTIC TEAM IS NOT A SUPERTEAM )

[@denigster]

so you are a 12 year old celtics fan - good to know - funny to talk to you in 20 years ^^

[@zay222True]

@@denigster what are u talm bout? Tatum game is not boring (top 3 pushing it but he's a winner)

[@xXSprMgaAwsmFxyHtXx]

I’ve known Jayson Tatum since middle school and he just is like that. He’s a really nice guy who is really good at basketball and always has been.

[@ftwsam2246]

The first thing I think of when it comes to Tatum is when he posed like Dave Chappelle's Prince in college 😂.

[@bookimatt]

Hate? Nah, I just don’t care for him because of the Celtics. He’s too bland for me to feel too strongly about. Now if we’re talking about Jaylen Brown, then we can talk about some hate. 🗿

[@508911]

Why do you hate jaylen?

[@jusaviceking]

Jayson Tatum is the Michael Jordan of Carmelo Anthony’s

[@yea3702]

if tatum played like melo he’d have 2 rings by now

[@Bryan-dl4to]

@@yea3702 That is the dumbest take I’ve ever seen. Melo would be awful for a team like the Celtics. He doesn’t pass and he doesn’t play defense

[@yea3702]

@@Bryan-dl4to my bad if tatum played like melo with the edition of his lockdown defense he would have a ring by now

[@Bryan-dl4to]

@@yea3702 Doesn’t change the fact that Melo is a ball stopper and a ball hog. Tatum is much better than he’s given credit for. Tatum is 10x better at playmaking and finding teammates than Melo. Melo is one of the most gifted scorers the nba has ever seen. But that’s all he is

[@miked5814]

I don't know how they have a superteam if they only have one player on the all NBA teams. How does that work? And the people who say that will say in the next moment that they're not good enough to get it done. So which is it? I think people just want to hate and can't make up their minds about exactly what to hate on.

[@yuretawahyucaesar4201]

i dont get the hate, he is boring

[@tim.noonan]

No u

[@RobertJandrue]

As a celtics fan I think the 2018/2019 seasons hype gave tatum expectations far too early. Those teams werent contenders at all. 2020 wasnt either tbh but very close. 2022 is when i’d really expect him step up and he’s getting very close.

[@Koko.Beware]

I’m so happy I found your channel again these videos have become some of my favorite things to watch keep up the great work Kofie

[@strangebirdfilms]

i pretty actively avoid watching boston but dude had a 50 burger in a game 7 a year ago so saying he hasn't had "moments" is kinda casual.

[@CTEagleCeltic]

Shit that baffles me the most, is that dude is Light-skinned and is getting all this hate… figured he’d get more Mid-Steph treatment, than Mid-Lebron treatment…

[@churlmc6087]

Please start turning the audio from these into podcasts so i can sit through meetings and hear this genuine opinion

[@NotTheWheel]

I watched last nights game the Celtics were in control the whole time and the announcers were talking like they were down 20 and "Tatum needs to do this, Tatum needs to do that" Like wtf -- "WE'RE UP!" I kept thinking to myself. Like what!? Then even KZbinrs are like - Yeah well the Celtics didn't blow out the Pacers and ALSO shut down their offense completely so they are trash. Like... What!? What do you mean??

[@4AMatyomamahouse]

As a heat fan I’ve seen these Celtics players talk so much when they’re up and know teams have nothing they can do, between Al Horford, Jaylen Brown and Jrue Holiday and last year Grant Williams and Rob Williams, the only players I can somewhat respect are White and Tatum

[@gugga2745]

i think the conference finals argument is fine bc it in a way shows that tatums team is always good enough to get there more times than not but really struggle to get over the hump that a star would push them over

[@brickwallblitz]

I admire your use of optimism as a way to fight discourse in your videos.