The Last of Us Part 2 - Joel Tells Ellie the Truth about the Fireflies // Flashback #3

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Video Game Sophistry is an opportunity to celebrate the creators and the artistry found in Video Games. I believe that Games are the most effective medium from experiencing another world, and another way to live. Expect to see a series of videos showcasing the narratives hidden in every game, interviews with game developers, along with our bench mark weekly podcast, Dialogue Wheel.
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[@GNCceo]

Ellie : "Stop lying to me!" Joel : "T H I S A P P L I C A T I O N W I L L E N D I N 15 M I N U T E S"

[@AttnDefDis_]

That pop up made me chuckle. The timing could not have been better.

[@razaqadeanova3255]

Best timing ever !

[@aminhaekal5709]

It was the best save for Joel if he knew 🤣🤣🤣

[@manaaalzarouni1775]

Kaibe Corp no the account isn’t verified

[@kobra6660]

That's one way to keep things secret and quiet

[@r011ing_thunder6]

Crazy how warm Joel got to Ellie that you hear tenderness in his voice.

[@arcticwolf8313]

He's a completely different character. As If he's known happiness he hasn't in decades.

[@LycanPower12]

Because he is her dad now I loved these scenes because of that

[@ElectricArcher]

Because Ellie brought him back from what he had become. He was a good person in the beginning but he changed.

[@comicalcosmonaut959]

Makes me all the more pissed off as to how poorly they treated his character

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

And she's a bitch to him because of that. Don't show too much kindness or people will run all over you while mistaking it for weakness. He really should've called her to order here the same way he did after Tess' death or after she ran off at Tommy's. Show some damn respect for the man who completed your journey and saved your life for nothing in return.

[@lewisdavidson571]

Best scene of the game. This should be the crux of the game. This should be the pivotal moment in which Ellie builds her own life and has it shattered by a death close to her, and Joel attempting to make up for his mistake and sacrificing himself for her for her forgiveness. But no. We got fucking Abby.

[@nachoprime9649]

What other death close to her would remotely make sense for this story? And what motive would the villian have for killing her loved one? The problem with this game isnt that Joel is killed in the way that he is, the problem is that ellie dosent get her revenge and tries to be the bigger person and is punished for it by losing her family and losing the ability to play Joel's guitar which is her last memory of him. The game shouldve ended with her letting the revenge quest go and living a happy life with her family or she goes out and kills abby only to realise revenge has gotten her nowhere and she ends up alone and heartbroken. Druckman tried to have it both ways, and it dosent work.

[@Dragonage2ftw]

That sounds like shit. I’m glad Neil is the director and not you.

[@blondeboi2132]

@@nachoprime9649 but at the same time Joel is one of the best characters in anything ever (I like him more than Ellie tbh), he should've stayed the main character. they had so much to work with

[@kingchernobyl7675]

Dragonage2ftw you must be the 1% then

[@babacush]

exactly, i kinda expected joel to die at some point, and considering the type of man he was, u would expect to be some sort of redeeming death, but nope, we got golf

[@thefeleapz4144]

What bugs me is that the fireflies removed Ellie’s choice in the matter. They just took her and took away her free will. I wouldn’t have left a cure to people like that. Especially to people that beat me while trying to save her and throw me out after completing a mission. To hell with the fireflies.

[@antoniorodriguez162]

Well tbf there’s no telling if the vaccine would’ve even actually worked in the first place, and if they could distribute it in an organized way that would give it to everybody and actually save humanity.

[@sony9437]

@@antoniorodriguez162 true. If by some miracle they managed to reach cities without getting shot than someone on the higher position could take the advantage out of it and trade it for weapons and ammo. Also vaccine works only on those who get infected, but in most cases they end up dying by getting mauled to death or something. Its not like wwz where zombies cant actually notice who is one of them. Still no way to rebuild the word until every zombie is dead

[@almostshawn3230]

Joel did the same thing.

[@TelletubiedeFormosa_XD]

Ellie would have wanted to die if that meant a cure could be made

[@CombatSportsNerd]

If you want to make the context even worse they were about to throw Joel out of the hospital *_without ANY his combat/survival gear._* AFTER he just brought them what they thought would save humanity. FUCK these guys

[@tiffanyparara2389]

Ellie: Just say it... Joel: I couldn't find all of the Savage Starlight comic books. Ellie: 7:53

[@Cacowninja]

You savage lol. I thumbed up.

[@ipullsteve6874]

Fell Man noice

[@OuterHeavenMicah]

The actor’s reaction to the ending

[@smoker5989]

Oh my god he's truly a monster no wonder Ellie left him alone

[@stax3511]

LMAOOOOHGGIIKNUJ IM DEAD

[@JoelsCreed141]

This should’ve been the whole plot of the game, Ellie finding out that Joel was lying while some of the remaining fireflies are trying to go after them then Joel makes a sacrifice to save Ellie again

[@wowdatbooty2977]

really creative

[@hugh3997]

I like this idea

[@johnjoseph6874]

That plot would’ve been predictable af and very unoriginal. I’m not saying I like this games plot or what they did with the story but that isn’t good either.

[@bjakeijzer]

That's almost everyone's fanfiction since 2013.

[@TheOGHerb]

Oooh very creative but instead they killed off the main character with the daughter of a surgeon

[@michaelwashington2519]

no matter what Joel did the right thing he lost sarah but he isn't losing ellie besides a vaccine wouldn't work after 20 years of the world in chaos

[@moonmoon2479]

It might have actually. The fireflies were not going to be the ones to do it since they were idiots acting like they knew what they were doing, but if someone knew, it would have helped. Sadly, Joel doesn’t care about any of that. Same with Ellie after a while.

[@zebo8000]

@@moonmoon2479 if you listen to the audio tapes it shows that the doctors were somewhat inept. They didnt have the knowledge or the tools to make the cure. And even if they were able to by some deus ex machina levels of bullshitery. They would not have had the means to spread it around. They were a dwindling group of survivors being hunted by the government. The best case for the human race to survive is to just let it be. Eventually the infected will die off and the humans would probably still be left alive

[@moonmoon2479]

Zebo8000 yeah, someone else may have, and that knowledge might have saved Joel’s relationship with Ellie. Like I said, while a cure may be possible, the fireflies weren’t going to be the ones to do it, speaks volumes that when Marlene died, they all gave up.

[@TowDow3]

LMAAAOOO so the right thing to do is to keep the world populated with fungus-zombies....

[@SpectralLuna6277]

@@TowDow3 the medics didn't even had the resources to mass produce a vaccine. Killing ellie would be pointless.

[@Spartan_Ghost98]

8:20 I would of did the same thing if I was Joel But if only Joel played the audio tapes he found in the hospital right when Ellie said “just say it”

[@Arjanator]

Troy Baker is such a good VA.

[@mokkefuhua9928]

Joel lost his daughter, he can't lose ellie after all ellie has been through hell and Joel was there taking care of her, but just to come this far making a vaccine that would kill Ellie. I was hoping a story for Joel finding redemption but instead getting shit on by so called " it Ma'am " 2 hours in a game early. Whoever makes this story needs to be fired and never make a story again.

[@izmirs.]

The writers probably arent even professional in writing. ND really messed up big BIG time.

[@drk1100]

Story writing dude is the same as in the first game. You wanna fire him for not pandering to your bitching?

[@gappy3799]

@Redstones Amy Henning, she's a goddess. I'm pretty sure she helped to write the story of TLOU 1, but that bitch Neil Druckmann fired her becuase he didn't like her writing.

[@delta2ish]

Gappy she didn’t help write TLOU stop being an idiot

[@HypocriteHunter666]

Redstones Her name is Amy Hennig

[@roonders4537]

8:31 you can see the teardrops on the jacket amazing

[@harrisonpierce751]

The hospital is all the way in Utah, Ellie just treats it like a day trip even though it's all the way from Wyoming

[@rayo146-x8x]

Can you imagine a version of the game where this was set in the present day (as the trailers had led us to believe), and the game built up to Joel's death instead? That would've been...so much better...

[@KyleF841]

7:02 lol people already made pirated versions

[@celu-ti2ue]

Thats because its not the main account

[@kobra6660]

Perfect timing on the application suspending

[@sanatoriumnugget6598]

So did the application get suspended

[@LahLahMan]

Insane acting and facial capture. Incredible

[@ronaldragupathi952]

Her anger is justified, Joel took away her purpose and hope for the world. the clash between Joel and Ellie was inevitable and it makes sense. Then again if i was Joel i would do it all over again in a heartbeat.

[@phoenixjamirazucena5672]

lemme guess? u finished the game?

[@ronaldragupathi952]

@@phoenixjamirazucena5672 3 times I felt super empty the first time then I played it again soon after I played the first one again. It all made sense.

[@Incubusnut]

The acting in this game (and the game itself) is brilliant.

[@heyaytlgno3951]

If the fireflies asked for consent this probably could of been avoided lol

[@isagaa9151]

Don't worry joel, its just a phase

[@ArthurandGustavo]

In this world, dying is a gift!

[@phoenixjamirazucena5672]

unless fireflies isnt crappy, they just carelessly killing immune people for no reason

[@luigicrisci7637]

Stop whining about the trailers, for god's sake. Marvel does it all the time. LOST did it back in the days. Stop whining about Abby, a character that's so well written despite getting not even half the screentime Ellie does. Stop whining about Joel's death: the fact you wrongly idealised him and can't cope with his demise and Ellie's reaction to it doesn't mean the plot is bad. Honestly, I'm so sick of all of you trying to bring down one of the greatest game ever produced in the history of the medium for such trivial reasons, when most of you all didn't even play it, and it shows.

[@reborn9488]

The best part of the plot The flashbacks

[@Isaac-mm9jz]

Me to NaughtyDog... 6:29

[@JustSomeCanadianGuy]

That must have been an awkward 3 week trek back to Jackson. 😆

[@fcukausername]

this should have been the pivotal moment of the game. i don't care about a character who should have never existed walking in on the death of her 2 friends who also should have never existed.

[@iancruz6617]

They where only there for a few days and was like wtf

[@MuchDRACO]

can you do a video going through every journal entry?

[@mysfer1088]

Sacrifice one for millions or sacrifice millions for one

[@KaiBlackstar22]

This only urges me to play the game even more. If it's not your kind of game, then that's totally cool.

[@afungai1649]

Yikes, enjoy your disappointment

[@seancoventry6576]

Sub par gameplay, even worse story, have fun

[@KaiBlackstar22]

No need to rain on someone else's parade.

[@crosssquirrel4293]

@@KaiBlackstar22 Actually they are giving us umbrellas and raincoats for it :)

[@gamingandrewbro8815]

@@tainozoku go back to fortnite kid

[@anstjsdlr]

I don't get it. If they wanted to put this scene on the game, why did they put the prologue in the first place? This scene and Joel playing a guitar are not connected. And also, why is she so upset about him saving her? It makes sense if she was just a bit disappointed in Joel because of his lie. Because I understand the weigh of trust she put into him. However, being mad at him for saving her? not letting her die for the cause? That's out of storyline. A way off at least. I don't know. part 2 could be a good game. But I guess not.

[@Ego-Breaker]

Don’t touch me!!!!! How dare you! You...... man..... how dare you save my life!!!

[@MagnumCalibre75]

When I saw this flashback in the middle of the game I was like : wtf ? So she knew all along ? I expected Joel's secret to be kind of a big deal since it's the cliffhanger at the end of the first game, but I guess they chose to squeeze it in like "oh by the way, she knew it from the beginning ! Anyway back to Seattle now" This really came out of nowhere...

[@jellyslopefall572]

Same, but I guess it’s to raise the question ‘why was she completely shattered when she saw him get killed?’ Then when it reveals at the very end that Ellie told Joel she had wanted to try forgive him the night before his death, you’re like ‘OH NO😭’

[@Zapdos97]

End of part 1 she clearly knew. That wasn't a happy ending. He lied to her face and she went along with it

[@waspywasp451]

She always knew he lied, she just didn't know the extent of his lies. Also, I thought the game made it pretty clear that Ellie knew. I mean, she wouldn't be so distant from him for no reason

[@pawepetek7294]

Tbh I thought the plot of TLOU2 would be about Ellie finding out about Joel's lies and about the consequences of it, but we got a trans on steroids who kills everyone but ends up alive. It's like if John Marston didn't kill Micah Bell at the end of RDR2.

[@Alabalalululababa]

3:27 Now, imagine if “Scott” were the villain of the sequel. Imagine if he allied with tons of other large-scale groups to hunt down Joel and Ellie, or if he shared the Fireflies’ findings with the government and had them hunt down instead.

[@everettenjeze6276]

a michel bay video game at that point. Lame

[@Alabalalululababa]

@@everettenjeze6276And it would still be better than what we got 🤷🏿‍♀️

[@everettenjeze6276]

@@Alabalalululababa glad we didnt. That’s not last of us lol. Simple plot complex characters. That’s last of us. Hence part 2

[@krasmasov6852]

That sounds so terrible. Like some boring Hollywood shit.

[@Alabalalululababa]

@@krasmasov6852 Right, because a story where you go an a murder spree to avenge your dead father figure isn’t Hollywood at all.

[@kasaibouF29]

So what did Joel tell Ellie about the Fireflies at the end of the first game?

[@maddyb7899]

Ignoring all the reasons that were valid for why Joel did what he did such as the lack of consent, the fact you can’t make a vaccine against a fungal infection that’s just science etc. I do understand Ellie’s reaction because she’s not just mad at Joel. Although the writers went over the top with it and dragged it out too much. But the thing is, Ellie saw her immunity as what gave her worth what made her matter. It gave her a purpose. And she has survivors guilt she watches these people she knew like Riley and Tess and Sam die from something that for some reason she didn’t and so she’s like why her? Why am I alive and they’re not? So losing that losing the thing she thought made her matter wrecked her a bit. Because Ellie does not have that high an opinion of herself. That being said the writers really built up an entire father daughter relationship and ruined it for no reason and then killed such a vital character I mean- I just- the fuck?

[@krisrudecki9477]

Writing in this is god awful. Ellie’s reaction is so out of place it’s just cringe

[@systematik]

It's so awful that it's a 10/10 masterpiece, that's some fantastic logic genius. Why not just say what you really feel. "I don't like gay people and they made all of the main characters women, us straight white men are the minority and we need representation too".

[@darinein]

@@systematik gameplay and graphics are really good but the story is mediocre at best. No, I am not a homophobe (I'm bi actually) and I am not even a man. I really love Ellie and I am trying to like Abby but this game just is not a 10/10 masterpiece. I would give it a 7/10. Please stop labeling everyone who doesn't think this game is good as a homophobic, sexist. Ok? Have a nice day.

[@mrHunleashesHELL]

@@systematik Ironic that the comment said " Logic ".

[@jadenw-d5562]

@@systematik The 10/10s came from critics who were afraid to get blacklisted. Look it up journalists came out and said they refused to play the game because if they gave it a bad review they would get blacklisted.

[@jadenw-d5562]

@@darinein You can't 'try to like Abby'. She's the worst character in existence. After you see what she did then they force you to play as her to sympathise when no one gives a shit about her. Her parts were the worst in the game no one cares about her or her life or what Joel did nothing justifies it

[@Rob712]

Imagine how great it wouldve been if the whole game was about THIS.

[@r011ing_thunder6]

Why is Ellie mad?

[@christophersuazo6799]

She found out..

[@eyesinthesky4731]

@@christophersuazo6799 that doesn't answer WHY. I'm assuming she wants to be dead.

[@salad1641]

She realised that she alone couldve saved the world and given it a cure. But Joel saved her just cause she cared about her and that made her mad. She looked at the greater good. And dont forget the fact that joel also lies to her at the end of tlou1.

[@rob_lucci9100]

@@salad1641 I understand her getting mad at Joel for lying. But her death wouldn't mean anything in the end. The only result would be that the Fireflies fail to create/distribute the vaccine, Ellie dies for nothing, Joel kills himself and everything turns to shit. At least if Ellie is alive, she can kill infected people and make at least somewhat of a difference. As well as, you know, LIVE HER LIFE. Better than nothing. The lying was fucked up tho

[@salad1641]

@@nox6948 Lmao

[@theWendigo1928]

This scene was good in my openion in a way, but I didn't like it how later on the developers had Ellie knew she was gonna die from surgery. Instead of her being surprise and now asking herself "Do I really want to give my life up like that?" Or "Why will I let people decide my death?". In the first game last mission all we see is unconscious Ellie, if she truly wanted to go through the surgery atlest give us a scene where she talk about it in the first game.

[@lucianganea3034]

Is it me or they made Joel a bit skinnier even in flashbacks? He was a brick of a man with wide shoulders in the first game

[@caoixhe]

I wanna know when Maureen had time to record the tape when Joel killed her

[@girlgeeker5683]

thats not Maureen talking on the tape this was recorded after they were killed by one of the female fireflies

[@DavePianist]

Can someone give me a mature answer about why Ellie would be this mad towards Joel? To an extent that she said, "don't you fucking touch me". That's really painful to hear after Joel saved her life, that Joel treated Ellie as her own daughter and thought that Ellie would've been treating Joel as her own father. I don't understand the emotion behind this.

[@xXSonTJXx-x]

Ellie isn't just mad that he saved her she also mad after she realized Joel slaughter everyone in the hospital including her friend marlene which pissed her off even more

[@XoThanaleeoX]

okay, sorry for my English If we cut out all the "Joel did the right thing, there's no guarantee for the vaccine" that everyone's trying to justify for Joel's actions then, Ellie had her life's purpose-- being the key to the cure. After losing people she cared for like Riley, Sam, Tess, all she knew was that she was the "hope" to prevent anymore painful deaths like that, but then Joel saved her in exchange of having destroyed humanity's hope and taking that life purpose from ellie without asking for her consent, plus, killed all the people at the hospital + Marlene who Ellie cared for and might have been her mother figure. In the first game, Ellie was so absolute that she wanted to help make the vaccine, and Joel is well aware that she would still sacrifice herself even if she knew she had to die (Ellie said at the end of the first game that she was "still waiting for her turn" which means she felt it's unfair that she's still alive) Morever, you can see that Ellie never truly believed Joel's lie, but tried to convince herself otherwise cause she knew Joel loves her and vice versa, that's why they got awkward for a year before Joel played her the "Future Days" song and Ellie tried to put this story behind. So when the truth that Ellie never wanted to hear finally unravels, it's gonna frickin hurt :/ I totally understand why Joel decided to saved Ellie and I love the man to death, but I will never say he did the right thing. Ellie knew she was special, but Joel said "nah, there are others like you and the fireflies stopped looking for cure" but it turns out that Joel was actually the one who stopped it from happening There's no villian nor heroes, there are only humans driven by their own emotions and experiences which makes the game so realistic yet, so sad :(((

[@Mylovejanedoe]

What if they, when they re-release the game on the ps5 it has an alternative story....

[@bruceyhun]

You know that's not gonna happen. The game is a masterpiece the way it is.

[@Mylovejanedoe]

Ceyhun Çemen never said it wasn’t

[@mazokuwolf1279]

@@bruceyhun no it was not. Stop being a fanboy. The game has story-breaking faults.

[@rmj0711]

The flashbacks are probably the only good parts of the story

[@rickshawjones8591]

Joel needed to pay for what he did I guess. No surprise that someone would eventually take a swing at it.

[@muffinpro_6157]

I don't understand the point of these flashbacks. They don't add anything to the main plot. Were they just trying to show they could've made a good game but said fuck it?

[@garywood97]

As if she would be that shocked and upset. She must've suspected that was a possibility when she asked if he was telling the truth at the end of the first game.

[@gurgamous]

right? I'm watching this and not buying that this would be a legitimate reaction. I mean...am I missing something? Is it odd that this scene makes me roll my eyes? This was at one point my most anticipated game of the generation. Now I'm so indifferent towards it that I'm not even going to play even if I was given it for free. Talk about a 180

[@zunny9040]

The first was about love, the second hate. The second game should have been about forgiveness

[@Deltobbi]

The first was about selfishness, or having an attachment you can't let go of.

[@Marko25Polo]

*"FOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUR!"*

[@marwaben6105]

Why she got mad here .. He just wanna save her :(

[@XoThanaleeoX]

If you were lied by someone you really love that your life aren't actually that important or you're not that special, and found out years after that in fact you were but your life's purpose was taken away, I would be mad too :/ especially when Ellie MIGHT have saved many more lives like Riley, Sam, Tess whom she felt responsible for.

[@phoenixjamirazucena5672]

@@XoThanaleeoX fireflies was just killing immune people for no reason

[@XoThanaleeoX]

Phoenix Jamir Azucena but they were basically trying to make a cure. The only thing they are to blame is that they don’t ask for Ellie’s consent first, which I don’t understand. If you’re talking about the recorder marlene talks about them running tests on several immune people, to this day there’s still no proof about this.

[@santachorry]

Shouldn't there be dead bodies everywhere? In the show Joel shot everybody in that place.

[@AryanKumar-bs8jo]

why ellie angry at joel ? Is it because of Betrayal or any other reason?

[@iancruz6617]

He told so little if he was joel in part 1 he woild exlain much better

[@NightWOLF_14432]

7:02 wait wat

[@jadenw-d5562]

He got the game of another account instead of buying it

[@JimmyEres]

Why did she return there?

[@FarhanKhan-vz2xu]

The best part was not only seeing joel getting jack hammered to death. But to see him get emotionally shattered (after coming at loggerheads with ellie) while he dragged on his HOLLOW/ INCONSEQUENTIAL EXISTENCE NEIL SUCKSMANN: atta boy. you got the message

[@lukewood7341]

Omg thats Abby on the recording

[@carson9903]

Is it actually?

[@AGenerationLostTM]

Love how they lied in the marketing to make people think this scene took place in present day

[@Christianesquivel-ni6ce]

Probably remodel

[@durpity7113]

They knew no one would like it so they mislead us into thinking Dina died and Joel is helping Ellie avenge her in the trailer.

[@AngelMartinez-hv6fj]

@@Christianesquivel-ni6ce That doesn't make any sense, this scene takes place in the past. They already had models for younger joel/ellie and they intentionally swapped them out for the present ones in the trailer.

[@systematik]

"lied"? You need to educate yourself on the definition of the word, there's a difference between misdirection and a lie.

[@ono6588]

Incorrectly directing someone and telling someone the wrong way to go is the same thing you dolt

[@RunningBlade2184]

They literally lied in their marketing to try to make people believe that this scene was in the future, so people would still think this game’s about Ellie and Joel. In the trailers it’s the exact same scene except they swapped these models with their older versions

[@hakon-uu1pg]

They where trying to subvert expectations

[@assassin1162]

@@hakon-uu1pg they did kinda like Marvel with Avengers Infinity War trailers

[@hunterleipan]

@@assassin1162 but Marvel did a great job, no fan hit Marvel for Iron Man death...

[@lewidavies304]

@@hakon-uu1pg and failed miserably, way to go

[@tomasgomez6908]

Really? What trailer it is?

[@smoker5989]

Am i the only that got emotional when Joel hugs Ellie?

[@paco9502]

That is so sweet

[@bellaedward28]

Sameee

[@visorbuddy]

Especially since he dies soon

[@an.s.7930]

I was waiting for a hug... But I wanted Ellie to hug him back too, so bittersweet I guess

[@AlvariuxGaming]

Yea

[@SawdEndymon]

Imagine if we got a story revolving around this...

[@alexdeghost2729]

I actually wouldn't want that. Then again I wouldn't want this game's story either.

[@jacobodom8401]

It does, it revolves around forgiveness and mercy. Ellie was repairing her relationship with Joel when Abby killed him

[@xfacterman1047]

But it is

[@OfficialArulSmurfz]

Jacob Odom no mate. Ellie was ‘trying’ to repair his relationship with Joel that night, then the next morning Joel went out early with Tommy and died.

[@fatuousinnovatorofsadness4640]

we did

[@jacobodom8401]

Did you guys really think that Ellie would be grateful for Joel saving her from the operation? Joel knew that Ellie was willing to sacrifice herself for this cause. That's why he lied to her.

[@Ocelot4R]

I was 100% with Joel. I would have done the same for someone I love. The cure wasn't a sure thing. Can't risk her dying for nothing.

[@AlvariuxGaming]

@@Ocelot4R people dont understand that.

[@jurassicpark1fan920]

@@Ocelot4R I think Neil Druckmann said the vaccine would've worked. TLOU is not meant to be taken super realistic.

[@ThaKingJay]

@@Ocelot4R HE wasn't okay with that risk but SHE was.

[@jacobodom8401]

Ocelot4R If that’s what you took away from the story then you didn’t learn anything.

[@Caparisonshredder]

8:26 ripped my heart out 😢 the look on Joel's face is absolutely fucking heartbreaking. He already lost one daughter...he sure as hell wasn't going to lose another. RIP Joel Miller, you were one of the true greats in gaming. Gone but absolutely NEVER forgotten.

[@noone-vh2my]

But didn't all the side notes that lead up to saving ellie say that the fireflies tried to make a vaccine from 20 other patients and it didn't work? I don't understand why Joel didn't tell her that. He has more than ample reason to believe that itd kill ellie and make no difference at all. Piss poor writing.

[@skullbash190]

He didn't tell her, because this game is a fucking bullshit, they removed some content of the first game, to make this scene happen, removing context and everything else.

[@noone-vh2my]

I'm pretty sure there were several other live patients. Throughout the game they kept saying "they are others like you". There were other immune people and they experimented on them live in pretty sure. I gotta go back to that part of the game

[@dneuro2185]

@MegaJf16 no, there is more people who are immune, but Ellie is special, that is why she is more important than the others, and even tho there was no guarantee the surgery would work, her uniqueness had more of a chance to actually work, and maybe even save the world

[@YelMalanta]

@@dneuro2185 That's some chosen one bs right there ngl

[@bazorkin]

@MegaJf16 If Marlene and the doctor really believed that, they would have given Ellie the choice. They didn't though, because they had no choice and wanted to feel semi-righteous about murdering a child who trusted them.

[@syndrax8554]

The acting in this scene is great. Troy & Ashley both deserve an Oscar for their performances.

[@H4DI_8]

They can’t win oscars

[@AvoidedParrot80]

NexusGamer Theycan win game awards for best performance

[@sergiooh978]

The acting in this whole game is fucking great. The problem is the writing in 80% of it.

[@JohnAC4]

sergiooh97 these actors were fucked by a terrible story. Just like how the old Star Wars actors, and Adam driver, were screwed by scripts. Despite being marvelous actors

[@mythospi0226]

I like to think TLOUS2 isn't cannon

[@leonj5084]

Muaaz Akbar , yes of course. .TLOU2 is the nightmare that Joel dreamed of. In the morning he wakes up, and then goes to play golf with Ellie.

[@eyeizarandummugga]

You and probably the entire world. A Korean streamer snapped his copy of the disc in two after the golf scene. I even heard folks in Australia are refunding their copies en masse.

[@eamon4800]

Can’t be cannon if I don’t play it 👌

[@clickycal]

@@eyeizarandummugga yea...definitely not the entire world. You'll have to get over that a huge percentage like the game.

[@beardedcoding3346]

No, but I’d like to shoot it out of a cannon.

[@Betroid]

I'll go back, but we're done. You once told me, everyone you cared for had either died or left you and you think for one second i'd let the fireflies take you from me. No, and i dont regret it *roll credits*

[@p0cr0c71]

Lol at that point Ellie would kill him.

[@chokoon21]

Joel: "Making a vaccine would have killed you...so i stopped them..." Ellie: "OMG thank you Joel, I didn't want to die yet." Joel: *What?* Ellie: *What?*

[@ducky6902]

Ellie is kinda being an asshole to Joel the whole time Edit: never mind I see why

[@baroquechevalier8516]

"kinda"

[@vladi1Z]

Are you kidding me? She just realized he robbed her of what she thought was her destiny, doomed the world of its' best chance for a cure and made her feel guilty about it. And above all, the only person she trusts lied to her face time after time when asked about it... In Joel's place I understand him, but in Ellie's place I would go nuts.

[@aleemizcool3654]

Thats sorta the point of the game. She screwed her relationship with Joel and loses him before she can fix it. Her whole revenge thing is lowkey only for herself

[@lamaosama9342]

@@vladi1Z you'd think a vaccine would change anything after a world in chaos for 20 years? Lmfao. And not only that but also that the zombies don't have to infect you to kill you.

[@-finelinehabits-4302]

how? her entire relationship with joel was based of a lie

[@yosoyyo9487]

story is trash but the flashbacks are worth it Ellie and Joel's flashbacks of course

[@DanBharry]

the flashbacks feel like the actual story. they feel so detached from the actual story.

[@rons_seb]

The “present day story” is whatever, i wish we actually saw how the story continues from here :(

[@DerpyTroll]

how is the story trash? did you play it?

[@jacobricard9887]

Are there at least a couple hours of these Joel/Ellie flashbacks? I might buy the game just for that

[@HypocriteHunter666]

Kermit The Frog No need to since watching the videos on KZbin which you should do so as well.The story is badly put tgt thus sending a very contradicting message to the players.The flashbacks are the only awesome things TBH

[@mrcalicowest3370]

Their relationship is what held the story together .. now its gone and the storyline is ruined .. wth Atleast his death should of been more dramatic

[@xOogieBoogie3x]

@Prophet Or maybe she lost everyone because of her revenge, and only when it was right in front of her did she realize that.

[@InfamousX1000]

xOogieBoogie3x her revenge wasn’t the reason she lost everyone, it was because she was unforgiving and hateful. She couldn’t forgive Joel for what he had done, even though his actions were logical and ended up saving her. It was this instinctive hatred that pushed Joel away in the first place into the situation that would eventually become his demise. In the beginning of the game all you know is that Seth had said something homophobic, but came to apologize to her about his mistake, she refused his apology and gave his “bigot sandwiches” to Jesse, which was a huge sign of her own bigoted nature. Abby was essentially her match in this regard because even though Joel had saved her life (like he did Ellie), she clung on to hate and un forgiveness. Because of Joel’s death, their hate would eventually crash into each other. Ellie even left Dina for her hateful pursuit and lost her as well in the process. In the end she lost everyone and didn’t even get her revenge, and I think the reason they wrote it like this was because it wasn’t revenge she was seeking all along, it was hate, and it was only when she realized she couldn’t hate Abby anymore that she came to understand she had truly lost everything. You could even see it in the gameplay too, her facial expressions when she stealth kills, she’s not cool about it, she’s taking out aggression every time. It’s the reason I believe the developers make you play as both Ellie and Abby, to further emerge the players in this feeling of hate and aggression that both Ellie and Abby represent. Truth is what I find stupid about it all is I doubt she would even have learned that lesson herself, yet the producers put a lot of effort to make everyone believe that to be the case. Rather it’s very hypocritical because these were the same people shouting obscenities at people on twitter and taking down videos containing any of the spoilers. Honestly I’m glad I didn’t buy the game, i just watched gameplays and skipped to the important scenes to save time. It looks like a great stealth game to be honest, and I would play it purely for that reason alone, but overall it just looks like a waste of time.

[@xOogieBoogie3x]

@@InfamousX1000 You missed the narrative by a mile. It's almost like you don't remember what Ellie says to Joel at the end of Part I. What Joel did was good for himself, and everyone should be somewhat sympathetic in understanding the loss his character went through to understand the decisions he made, but he objectively it was the wrong decision, and it went against even Ellie's wishes in the end. It's a tragic tale for everyone, because all Joel wanted is to be a father again. Ellie believed she should have been the martyr to find a cure, and her life feels empty because of it - hence her conflicted feelings about Joel after finding out that he lied - but at the same time, as she struggles to find meaning for herself or forgive Joel for what he did, in the end, in their last conversation shown in the end of the game, she tells him she's like to try to forgive him - ultimately the next day, the former Fire Flies catch up to him, and Abby inflicts her vengeance on him for the murder of her father, and the ultimate downfall of the FFs themselves. But in that moment of his dying breath, he can see that Ellie still loves him, and she decides (like Abby) to make getting vengeance for him her life's mission. Abby and Ellie mirror each other, but they're just in differences in their journey. Abby ruined her relationship over obsessing over training to avenge her father, and after she does so she feels dissatisfied with her actions, and ultimately her actions bring pain, suffering, and death upon the people she loves as result of her actions - and a war between Jackson & Abby's circle breaks out trading blows. Ultimately Ellie and Tommy destroy everything around her. Everybody's actions are justified, but morally wrong. It's very grey but equally dark. By the end of all of it, Abby has simply given up - she's over it, having lost enough. Ellie realizes what she's become as she drowns Abby - her pain reaches a breaking point and she relents, letting Abby go. That was honestly the biggest redeeming moment for an Ellie who had otherwise crossed too many lines seeking Justice, more so than even Abby ever did, though she came close - Lev stopped her and allowed her to see how deep she was stooping into the darkness. In the end, everyone gets what they deserve, and they walk away broken and empty handed.

[@Danosauruscrecks]

@@xOogieBoogie3x sounds a what's it called.... Yeah a horrible story

[@akuisbestgirl2448]

@@Danosauruscrecks "It's a horrible story because it's not like my fanfiction!" That's what most of the people like you sound like

[@wifine1951]

If only if we had part 2 about Joel and Ellie and not about Abby...

[@Gerarudo]

That probably happen in another universe

[@deaconstjohn3399]

Right i was so confuses when she was introduced

[@NECROMAGICIAN666]

Second game sucked at least for me

[@bbokari9880]

Gerarudo and our universe sucks then

[@williamsnyder7945]

Exactly!!

[@evanyitping2449]

Right after Ellie pushed Joel, nostalgia hits him: *Oh boy...* *Here comes that same drama we had at the ranch years ago...* P.S. Whenever emotions overwhelm Ellie, her first instinct is to push the one she truly cares for.

[@madisattybayev249]

That could’ve been a set up for the game. Joel trying to restore the relationship with Ellie, even takes the bullet protecting her. And the ending could’ve been more touching and emotional, Joel dying in her arms, and then Ellie forgives him.

[@ayrtonmichaque7214]

"Joel dying in her arms" lol This is The Last Of Us, not a mediocre movie TLOU2 is what TLOU franchise stands for

[@WiseoldVorkath]

Ayrton Michaque people are ridiculous to think he was gonna get a heroic ending lmao. Not in this world

[@kiritisbored]

Floop I think they mean a relatively heroic ending not like a world changing one

[@not_ecchi2806]

@@ayrtonmichaque7214 but Joel's daughter died in his arms so I fits perfectly But no we needed shehulk to bash his brains in after saving her only about an hour into the game. I wasted my money on a while of shit.

[@chrissmith9167]

@@ayrtonmichaque7214 Your right it's a mediocre game.

[@Nobodysurvivesevenonebit]

That acting is phenomenal

[@randychampion2137]

Shut up it’s garbage

[@Cheeks730]

@@randychampion2137 look man story is trash and neil druckmann is sjw nutjob and i get people hate him. I do too but the acting is fantastic... and also the dialogue. there's no denying this

[@2fly97]

PapiDarko Ehh some of it is pretty cringe

[@2fly97]

PapiDarko A step down from the first honestly

[@crozraven]

@@Cheeks730 by "movie" comparison, the direction was basically hollow imo. It's like having this Oscar winner actors acting for a movie like CATS. Oofs ...

[@brotherbrod]

absolutely heart breaking scene. everything built by the first game shattered with one sentence, “So i stopped them.”

[@sketcheadiscoming]

Remember in the first game when she breaks down because she think Joel is gonna dump her on tommy and says your the only person who’s never left me. And then treats him like this because he refused to let her die. Typical with the last of us two. Terrible writing again. Just completely undone everything they did in the first game. Actually pisses me off that I waited 7 years for this wank wank game. And also wasted £60 on a pre order. Never trusting naughty dog again.

[@redninelowdog]

​@JamesHLanier, that's a garbage ass argument, dude. She already knew he was lying at the end of the first game and chose to say, "Okay," instead of scolding him for it in that final scene of The Last of Us 1. Now, all of a sudden, she's obsessed with finding out the truth behind that lie when she was previously willing to accept his lie.

[@seancoventry6576]

Thank you for saving me the £50

[@phoenixjamirazucena5672]

@Giorgos Poursanidis yeah

[@liavhanegbi2729]

Too bad, this game is awesome

[@mirellefolkersma8924]

is nobody going to mention Ashley's acting skills here? Ashley is such a good actress and Troy too btw

[@mostripe480]

bro false advertising should be illegal lmao tf is this

[@assassinmagic7478]

It is illegal, it's just not enforced much

[@MaryLab2930]

i- are y’all really- my god stop being whiny little boys and grow tf up LOL trailers are supposed to mislead you are y’all dumb?

[@franciscomacedo4667]

@@MaryLab2930 seems like you're the whiny little boy here lmao

[@justsomeone6517]

@@MaryLab2930 no..... They aren't...

[@jfitzmaurice7778]

@@MaryLab2930 bruh there not your proper slow ya know that

[@lamaosama9342]

Ellie and Joel flashbacks: ❤️ Abby flashbacks: 😑😒

[@mohummadyousuf1331]

I wanna know how Joel felt like the ride going back the emotions he was probably feeling

[@TheOGHerb]

It was probably a really awkward ride with lots of silence

[@AngelMartinez-hv6fj]

This game is like the third part of a trilogy that isn't really as great as the other two, except the second game doesn't even exist and was reduced to just a few flashbacks.

[@Nobodysurvivesevenonebit]

The truth will set you free

[@randychampion2137]

Bro stfuuuu damn!

[@XavierGage]

And save you money

[@davemiller9475]

Shut up cope

[@professionaldunce1981]

Cope cope cope shut the hell up

[@Simpsonizado]

Radio Free Oregon

[@charles1964]

If Ellie has this Mutated Gene that grants her Immunity,it stands to reason that any children she would have would carry that mutation and also be Immune. I wonder why nobody thought about that??

[@JurassicLion2049]

Part of me wishes Ellie couldve learned about this posthumously rather than before Joels death. Wouldve made a more complicated story of Ellie grappling with the man Joel was and how he wasnt perfect and did bad things but still accepts him as who he was.

[@rachelmary2836]

Ellie needed to look at it from his point of view. The pain of losing a child is unmeasurable and Making a cure in a world that HASN’T fallen apart is insanely difficult and time consuming. The likelihood of the fireflies actually being able to make a cure is slim. Joel did the right thing by saving Ellie from a meaningless death.

[@brunohenriquemoro6830]

But then any other death till this point would be meaningless too, Ellie also lost people close to her, people like Tess, who chose Ellie's life instead of hers, because Ellie was a beacon of hope, those peoples were also part of her life and Joel strip away the meaning of their life. It was a tough choice for sure.

[@lukekiely2450]

The fact that Ellie said to Joel at the end “I was supposed to die in that hospital. My life would have mattered” The way I see it, her life’s matters if she’s alive too. Liek the people she helps in Jackson, the friends she makes, her moments with Joel. All that wouldn’t have happened if she died in that hospital. Her life matters more if she’s alive

[@perry4799]

@@lukekiely2450 Ellie had/has survivor's guilt. That's why she brings up Riley, Tess, and Sam at the end of the first game before making Joel swear he was telling the truth. I think the only thing that helped her cope was the idea that she lived and they died because she was the answer to ending this whole thing. Whether it actually worked or not didn't matter, and Joel's decision made it so she would never know.

[@Orangecatenergy]

Lemme just say that making a cure by taking her brain matter is scientific bullshit. So the fireflies would've killed the only immune person they'd ever find, probably.

[@Orangecatenergy]

And vaccines are not for fungi.

[@retro674]

Damn you really do see Joel starting to tear up in 8:26, he knew it was about time to tell her.

[@utlwanangmmeti9466]

So Naughty Dog lied and Joel doesn't help Ellie out wow

[@LucDutra92]

It's not a lie since they never said that Joel and Ellie would travel together in another cross country adventure. They misled by swaping the models but didn't lie.

[@crozraven]

ND really trying to demonized Joel for some reasons, even when he was already buried in the graveyard.

[@zebo8000]

If you listen to the audio tapes it shows that the doctors were somewhat inept. They didnt have the knowledge or the tools to make the cure. And even if they were able to by some deus ex machina levels of bullshitery. They would not have had the means to spread it around. They were a dwindling group of survivors being hunted by the government. The best case for the human race to survive is to just let it be. Eventually the infected will die off and the humans would probably still be left alive

[@jongriffin6004]

Zebo8000 Exactly. This should have been Joel’s argument. Letting them kill Ellie wouldn’t have accomplished anything, because the worst threat in the apocalypse is other humans anyway. Instead he just gets scolded like a child. Fucking stupid.

[@TowDow3]

ND isn't demonizing Joel. You cant make someone a demon by exposing the truth. Joel was selfish. He couldn't get over the death of his daughter and USED Ellie to replace her. He's emotionally inept and unable to get through his loss. Tragic as it is he's NOT the hero in my eyes. He'd rather live with clickers than save the world.

[@GemGames3]

@@TowDow3 That's what I expected from the sequel, Joel realising that Ellie isn't Sarah and recognising she is her own person while getting over his own trauma, though no doubt he loves Ellie. The slowly building friction between them leading to a the truth should've being the story, not told in flashbacks, it's as if the game is two stories to make up for the fact they know it's what fans wanted.

[@MugdhaMahdiShams]

@@TowDow3 Joel was a regular parent. You'll get it one day when you have kids.

[@DiegoSandovalLopez4579]

Joel is not your fault You Want a Save her and you did it

[@badbada3003]

Still selfish

[@smoker5989]

@@badbada3003 humanity is more selfish than Joel

[@badbada3003]

@@smoker5989 blame the person not the entire humanity

[@VinnieDC-er5mf]

@@smoker5989 Yeah...doomed humanity because he lost his daughter...20 years to move on but didnt.

[@ayrtonmichaque7214]

Wtf, no It's his fault, he killed the only person who could make a vaccine That's selfish, the whole world is like this because of one person

[@yosoyyo9487]

if you stop right their at 8:17 that's when her heart breaks up

[@vealatiume455]

The fireflies didnt care about Ellie or giving the cure away. They wanted it for there own gain

[@rexthebest1828]

Naughty dog take back your game and fix it and a time skip wasn't necessary just continue off were it end it the flashbacks shoulda been how the game should be not just jump to the future and mess up everything

[@Sirfluffy51]

Say what you want about this game, but it was an emotional rollercoaster.

[@JustSomeCanadianGuy]

The animation on the faces in this game is unbe-fuckin'-lievable.

[@2KRICHKID]

Joel lied to her for years i understand its not right 😔. Tbh if I was in ellie shoes and I am the key for a vaccine. I would not sacrifice my life for humanity. They don't deserve it