The Least Important Recording Projects Ever (No. 8: Bernstein Remastered on Sony)

[@sarahjones-jf4pr]

Sure L.B would be annoyed at the commercial choice of his works remastered here.Hello Dave spot on as usual....Yes indeed.

[@nb2816]

I have been acquiring the other Sony box sets: Mitropoulos, Walter, Szell, mono Ormandy. You mentioned that Sony is going to be issuing two boxes devoted to stereo Ormandy. I have found that although Sony screwed up the sound on most of their earliest issues of CBS recordings after they acquired CBS, the remasterings in these other recent boxes have generally been superb. Although I have much of the Bernstein material already, I would invest in a similar complete box(or boxes) if it were issued, but I'm afraid that since Sony has already blown its wad on issues such as this, a box comparable to those devoted to Walter or Szell will probably not be forthcoming. Am I correct?

[@wortleyclutterbuk7347]

Ha! Like any true addict (like the one pictured above) I have that box...as well as the Bernstein Edition boxes, the big DG box, the Stravinsky and Beethoven Boxes, the Pianist box, the Composer box, the Harvard lectures...etc. etc. I like having the artwork, I suppose, but also being able to just pull out a disc that isn't an alphabetical/random combination of works (Brahms, Chavez, Diamond. Mahler & Randall Thomson.) Keep up the good work!

[@jaykauffman4775]

I guess what we still need is a complete original jacket set?????

[@jeffheller642]

How about the greatest recording projects Never (as yet). Case in point. ALL of Saint Saens chamber works in one box set. Wouldn't it be nice.

[@murraylow4523]

Nice constructive general idea!

[@secondbanana2]

With the initial CD issues, the Royal Edition, Bernstein Century, Symphony Concerto, and Vocal Editions, and yes, the Remastered Edition, I've lost count of how many times Sony has gotten me to buy many of Bernstein's recordings, especially his own music and of course Mahler, and Haydn. Still, if they ever do a complete recordings edition I'll be interested.

[@catfdljws]

one thing about this are how 'empty' some of the discs are (reviewing the listing on discogs) - quite a few are less than 40 minutes. i'm guessing they often opted to recreate the vinyl (even though they already made a smaller set release of replicating those jackets)? take the William Schumann - Century bundled 3 and 5 (strings) with 8 as well. This is only 3 and 5. Shostakovich in Century was 5 and 9. Here? Just 5. Bartok? Just Concerto, no Music for Strings etc, which was bundled on BC. Images for Orchestra? all alone here, (another disc only has 3 works) where-as the Bernstein Century filled each Debussy/Ravel disc to the brim. Yet some other discs are loaded - Gershwin Rhapsody and American in Paris bundled with Grofe's Grand Canyon. The opening disc of Stravinsky/Milhaud/Afterthought was released as-is on an "Early Recordings" CD 5 years ago.

[@richardsandmeyer4431]

I remember being surprised when this Bernstein Remastered box came out. Sony hadn't even finished releasing their 3 box Bernstein series (1. Symphony edition, 2. Concertos and Orchestral Works, 3. Vocal works and miscellaneous stuff) at the time. I figured Sony was now going to give Bernstein the complete remastered/original jacket treatment starting with this box, but then they have never followed it up with similar boxes for the remainder of his Sony (i.e., Columbia and RCA) recordings. Clearly, this box is not meant for the hardcore collector who will insist on having his complete Sony legacy (what veteran collector is going to settle for 3 of his 4 Schumann symphony recordings, 2 of his 4 Nielsen, a few of his Mahler, a few of his Beethoven, Sibelius, Tchaikovsky, etc.). I agree with others who have called it more of a sampler or an introduction to Bernstein. Perhaps of interest to those just getting started with Bernstein (especially if it can be had at a bargain price), but I got the 3 box series instead.

[@parfreysounds6841]

Thanks Dave, this serves my theory that you’re often better off with “Complete” box sets. As for Bernstein I’ve sought out individual cds/records of his great recordings sometimes inspired by your reviews and others. I was able to curate my own ideal Bernstein Mahler cycle that way (Sony for 3,4,7,8,9 and DG for 1,2,5,6). Somehow I’ve been able to make it just fine without a Bernstein box.

[@leestamm3187]

That has long been my method of collecting "cycles" by any conductor for any composer.

[@mangstadt1]

I think I'll continue buying Bernstein CDs in smaller boxes, or even loose CDs. Both his Mahler boxes are great, as well as a few other recordings of his own music and things by Ives and Carter. I only saw him conducting once, at the London Proms in 1988. He conducted the overture to Candide. The rest of the concert was done by a winner of a competition in Schleswig-Holstein.

[@nicoviereckel7730]

I definitely agree with you that the selection is random, just like Sony's overall approach to Bernstein's legacy. In 2018 for instance, Sony released the "Remastered Edition", but "Leonard Bernstein Edition - The Vocal Works" as well (without the new remastering, where theoretically available). Beyond that, they released "Leonard Bernstein - The Composer" in 2018 (without the new remastering for the theatre works). A total mess, if you don't want to have the same performances multiple times. To make it even worse (and here I don't fully agree with you), the new remastering is generally superb (sometimes quite audible and sometimes less). That being the only positive aspect about this box (and the performances in general, of course), this is barely sufficient to buy it. (Fortunately there are streaming and/or download options)

[@JPsnr]

The problem with 'irrelevance' is that it is purely subjective - it exists in the eye of the beholder. Despite its faults (and there are some) I absolutely love this collection - it is most certainly relevant to me as i am thoroughly enjoying the remastering and it enhances my classical music collection in general and my Bernstein music collection specifically. I wont watch the original video since i think 3 consecutive 'blechh' reviews are sufficient enough to confirm my view that some reviewers are too precious for my liking.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, it is not purely subjective. It depends on the context. If one limits the discussion to personal estimate of worth, then you are right, but then that's a truism. However, if we consider the wider marketplace, general availability of similar repertoire, or the customer at large, then you are dead wrong.

[@JPsnr]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, of course. But that's not the point of my criticism. I don't have the luxury, or the required dosh, to examine, in detail, the marketplace. However, this box set has been a revelation for me as it opened my ears to composers and composition I was only on superficial nodding terms. And as a consumer with limited funds (the story of my life) this box set also enhances my meagre classical (and of course Bernstein) collection to such a degree that I'm finally, after 30 years, upgrading my speakers! So, you can see why this box set is incredibly relevant to me, aside from the fact that I can now gleefully chuck out the so-called 'royal collection', it is precious and I couldn't give a monkey's anus what the market place is doing.

[@JPsnr]

An aside (and forgive me my droning): what I absolutely love about the box set is the reproduction album covers - they bring out the child in me, thrilling, as it is, to have a multitude of miniatures! The liner notes are educational and instructive and, historically speaking, a pleasure to step back post-war to the 70s (although some of the albums display somewhat alarming artwork!).

[@SoiledWig]

After reveling in the completeness of the other big Sony boxes, like Szell's and Walter's, i bought this one up without paying attention to what it really was, then found out over time what-all i was still missing! D'oh.

[@jgesselberty]

Up next. A big boxed set of smaller boxed sets. Great talk.

[@murraylow4523]

Interesting coming from you. Look, I’ve not heard it (and nobody will until mid November) there’s an Ormandy box coming which is 88 discs over 5 years. What on earth are common mortals to do with that? It might be (I lean to this without further information) a symptom of massive over recording when stereo happened. Presumably they’ll have to do at least two more enormous boxes to get to the 1970s. So in a strange way I understand the fumbling to try and do a Bernstein big box (I’m not buying it).

[@MROP6840]

Hi Dave. This video got me thinking that even though this 100 disc set is irrelevant, surely the 1960s Bernstein/Mahler complete symphonies LP set is one of the MOST Important Recording Projects Ever. I’m surprised you haven’t done that one yet. Did I miss it? Thanks.

[@matthewweflen]

As a connoisseur of box sets, this would absolutely bug the crap out of me. Say what you want about the DG Karajan "decade" boxes, but they were at least complete, which meant you didn't have to buy any smaller releases to fill in gaps in your collection. I can't think of anything more annoying than trying to fill in gaps in a symphonic cycle with individual discs.

[@gavingriffiths2633]

Dave - just to cheer you up- there have been ads for the Luxury Vienna Phil. Volume 2 box. It's green.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Not that I've seen.

[@brianburtt7053]

What I need is for Sony to do another print run of the "Concertos and Orchestral Works" box, since I was dispossessed of mine in a move. C'mon, people...

[@MarloweStern]

Is there a box (or boxes) you WOULD recommend for Bernstein?

[@john1951w]

The Bernstein Symphony Edition (60 CDs) has some fabulous stuff on it. His complete Mahler, Beethoven and Sibelius cycles etc. Electric performances. Two issues: the scrawny old CBS sound (thin and two dimensional but still OK) isn't very glamorous and it's another big box that doesn't fit anywhere on the shelf (same as the one that David reviews on here).

[@heatherharrison264]

Sometimes, I'll buy digital downloads of boxes like this when they are available (this one isn't) and the price is right. The seeming randomness of the selections in not unique to this one. It makes me wonder if someone feeds the entire catalog of a conductor into a computer program that randomly picks out enough stuff to fill the number of CDs that they want to issue. If the price is right, it can still be a good way to build up a library of a variety of miscellaneous works or possibly fill a few holes in a collection. I wouldn't consider this type of set important, since they don't seem to be carefully curated, but they can still have value under the right circumstances. While looking for this box on Presto, I found a Sony box of Bernstein's Beethoven recordings that includes the symphonies, overtures, and Missa Solemnis. As of this writing, the download version is a steal ($10 to $25 depending on resolution - CD quality FLAC is $13). The only thing holding me back is that I already have a lot of recordings of these pieces, and I'm starting to wonder how many I truly need. However, this set could be considered important, as Bernstein's take on Beethoven is well worth hearing. (I used to have some of these recordings on LPs, but I had to get rid of them years ago because they took up too much space.)

[@SamWesting]

Dave & others may not care for it, but it would have been nice had Sony put out a CBS Original Jacket Series, & used this large Remastered Edition set to include all the titles NOT already issued in their smaller OJ boxes, like Bernstein the Composer, Bernstein the Pianist, Bernstein Conducts Beethoven, etc. Instead, the Remastered set duplicates quite a few titles from the smaller sets. Missed opportunity here.

[@wzdavi]

You're right. There are way too many. Most are brilliant. I love the Haydn Paris Symphony set.

[@jaykauffman4775]

Warner is doing the same thing with Callas. They have just issued the Complete Callas AGAIN!!!!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, but it's more complete now.

[@jaykauffman4775]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Yep and they’ll add more live stuff in a couple years

[@michelangelomulieri5134]

As to Bernstein, a message to DG: please remaster his live performance with Claudio Arrau playing Beethoven piano concerto n. 4! Is out of print!

[@rugerthedog396]

Remastering doesn’t matter? Well, at least until it doesn’t. 2 cases in point. EMI’s remaster of Kempe’s Strauss Box, has brighter sound; different, but is it better? Or is it annoying? I lean toward the latter. How about Decca’s most recent Solti Ring remaster? The first release, Walkure, sounded noticeably compressed. OK, this was compared to my idiotically expensive SACD Solti Ring issued by Esoteric, but what I picked up quickly by ear was easily confirmed by measurement. Nice for in-car listening or with ear-buds, but count me out. Bottom line - mastering engineers often see their job as making the source sound better, and while many do the job inconspicuously and with great taste, there are the occasional heavy hands and I believe this should be noted.

[@smurashige]

I thought he was just referring to the remastering in this Bernstein set, not to remastering in general. He's pointed out before when remastering has improved the sound.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Exactly. Not everyone pays attention before commenting!

[@leestamm3187]

​@@DavesClassicalGuide True, and annoying to those of us who follow your commenting guidelines.

[@jamesmakey2792]

Life is short. Focus on the good. Not the bad. I still love you David.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I like to focus on what is, both good and bad. It's all part of life.

[@SoiledWig]

But that's literally Dave's job. It helps inform us when we as consumers and music lovers consider the overwhelming amount of material out there.

[@jamesmakey2792]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Good point :)

[@CannonfireVideo]

Well, I wouldn't buy this set even if I had loads of money. But I was still extremely glad that someone spiffed up that incredible Mahler 3 for the digital age. The original LP was pretty disappointing, even by 1962 standards -- the sonics in no way measured up to the performance.

[@catfdljws]

Yeah, I'm about done with Bernstein-Sony. The last thing I needed was the NYPO Rite (the Bernstein Century edition included his '72 LSO, not nearly as exciting, even if slightly better recorded). I collected a lot of the Century discs as my starting point into classical collecting, filled in some gaps with some Royal Editions, and called it a day unless I see something in a used bin. He was a great conductor to start with, and a talking point with both my mother (grew up watching the Young Persons Concerts on TV, which featured much of the same material - he sometimes used the YPO as a dress rehearsal for the final recording like La Mer and Mahler 4), and also my in-laws, who were NY residents that actually saw some of his concerts in the 60s and 70s (and have the original 60s vinyl for quite a few). The thing about these super-boxes, besides how arbitrary the selection is, is just who is this for? 60 years on from his recording peak, who has decided, "hmm...I think I'd like to give Bernstein a try, so lemme buy 100 discs all at once." Such a person really does not exist. Same with quite a few others of these "the complete recordings" or "the great recordings" (an arbitrary title for an arbitrary selection of Andre Previn...though admittedly, at only 10 discs there was some good stuff there). It isn't "every day" that someone really feels that kind of a drive to buy something on that scale, esp if they already have quite a few of them. And the word 'remastered' is not always a magic word. Some remasters are HORRIBLE with compressing their dynamics, especially those that are really mastering for downloads to be heard on iPod earbuds. I did get quite a few "great recordings" compilations of Stokowski years ago, but that was a matter of wanting to study his sound and how it evolved. For such a personal study, the price of those re-issues boxes (across 4 labels and at least 50 years between oldest and latest) was acceptable.

[@flexusmaximus4701]

Think the whole remastering shtick is mostly a marketing ploy. I have regrettably purchased many so caller amazingly remastered CDs. Mostly the results are underwhelming with just a few exceptions.

[@dmntuba]

If the labels were "smart" they should have " Create A Box " Many micro brand watch manufacturers allow customers to take all the offer and Create a watch...do it with classical music. Like Build A Bear...Build A Bernstein 🤣