The Legacy Dilemma

[@mandafrombk]

I’m on the 🚽 fightin demons rn bruh dat shrimp doin my stomach bad 🤦🏾 anyways if y’all need new kits buy quality football jerseys at low prices here ⬇️ www.socceratoz.co/?tracking=Manda 10% discount code: Manda

[@TheBlackJerome]

Thanks for the info 😂

[@theotherguyog9493]

Short but very strong peak = "Streets Will Never Forget" Long, sustained period of greatness = A True Legend

[@bjdfed]

Not really

[@leonthethird7494]

Streets won’t forget is usually a great player who never played for an amazing team

[@TheOneandOnlyMe3]

​@leonthethird7494 they're right on the peak though

[@RandomPerson-vu6yu]

Neymar had a great career. The only reason he gets disrespected is cause he’s Brazilian. When it comes to Brazil they expect their all time greats to win World cups, balon dors, etc. If Neymar represented pretty much any other nation he would be treated like a living legend.

[@keedkiro1446]

he's their top scorer ahead of those legends too his knees are just too weak

[@Smoggygotdajuice]

People will say Neymar is the prince who never became king but then go say Ronaldoinho best Brazilian winger of all time

[@bjdfed]

neymar's legacy in football is laughable, imagine being a brazilian player and not winning atleast one copa america, they have even won without him in 2019 😂😂😂

[@BiggestBirdonMars]

He the greatest but he not the best Neymar was just way more complete He had the skills and with double the productivity If neymar was in a different era or made better choices he wouldve surpassed him

[@rintaro11]

But ronaldinho literally won a ballon dor doesn't that make him king for at least one season?

[@RandomPerson-vu6yu]

@@rintaro11 Yeah but Neymar had to compete against Messi and Ronaldo during their peak for the balon dor. I don’t blame him for not getting one. Think of all the great players that Messi and Ronaldo denied a balon dor.

[@ladyole9291]

​@@RandomPerson-vu6yuNeymar isn't close to ronaldhino at all not in anything dhino had better control, was stronger, was less injury prone, was more efficient, was more dangerous, was clutch, was a better playmaker . Neymar isn't even the third best in this generation he's not even close to Suarez who literally won a golden boot during Ronaldo and Messi's prime . Look I get ppl like Neymar for his flair and how he's and icon and stuff but he's not even half the player dhino was

[@brunoramirez2602]

Also recent events seem much shorter. Benzema is often made fun for having a short prime but he was actually top 5 from 2019-22 and even had good years before 2014. While Suarez is the best player overall imo his absolute peak was not much longer, I would say from 2013 to 2017. KdB Longevity is also underrated, he has been a top 2 midfielder since 2018

[@ripvanwinkle91]

Benzema also had a very underrated 15/16 campaign in terms of stats but also that reminds me of Salah being called "one season wonder" years ago just because he had 40+ goals in 17/18 but he was still part of Premier League Team of the Season's after that season and even shared Prem Golden Boots after that season as well and he's also on track to potentially matching or beating that 17/18 record this season

[@nathanakobe5304]

KDB ever since he had 30 goal contributions in a league season at Wolfsburg. That’s like 2012

[@somebloodybrit8067]

Longevitiy matters more due to the fact that you are able to keep such a high level of quality for a sustained period of time and it shows that you were able to adapt your game through different eras and roll with the punches and keep progressing into being a better player. I also always found the "on their day" arguement to be a bit disengenious because on their day anyone could be better than anyone else and they often were (e.g. Rory Delap vs Cesc Fabregas).

[@qal4real372]

not really, no one ever says Pepe is a greater cb than vvd even though he's been playing for over 2 decades

[@madeupstory9510]

There is a merit to the "on their day" argument. Like, for one reason or another, some players do not drop 8/10s on a weekly basis. They can be easy to ignore but then they will have a handful of games where they can be the "biggest thing if the week". Foden in his earlier days is a good example. City had a lot of good players and so he was more of a utility player but he did have games where he reminded everyone that he wasn't just another talent. Best example right now would probably be Rodrygo. He can go months without a wonderful game but if he is at it, Madrid wins their game, there is no other way around it. But him having to compete with Vinicius means that he can't be the same menace on a weekly basis. Of course, this label works best when reflecting on the portion of a players career. It's much weaker when a player spends their entire career this way.

[@UkashaUmar-ph9hl]

I think longevity falls under consistency your longevity doesn’t matter unless you where consistent and a player who had like 3 seasons prime is gonna be remembered more

[@mandafrombk]

@@UkashaUmar-ph9hl I agree heavily wit dis. For example I didn’t include Robben in the longevity category cuz even though he played in Europe since 16 years old and lasted at Bayern til he was 34, the large majority of the seasons in his career were injury riddled and he only played like 20 games per league season over 10 years at Bayern. Players like Hazard who were finished way earlier are remembered more for how electric they were in their prime despite Robben gettin a UCL and dominating for years wit Bayern

[@MyGamerFUZE]

​@@mandafrombkI feel like your opinion is skewed slightly by being from the English speaking world. Here in Germany, nobody ever talks about Hazard (except Thorgan), but Robben is an absolute legend. Actually, despite very rarely playing together due to both being very injury prone, Robben and Ribery are considered maybe the best pair of wingers in recent memory.

[@mandafrombk]

@@MyGamerFUZE I wouldn’t be shocked if dats true to be honest, fair

[@MrManager-p9f]

​@@MyGamerFUZEu dont tlak about hazard cause he didn't play in your country mate that's why u speak about torgan more

[@EnriqueBartulac]

“Ryan Giggs, I’m sure he’s a great guy.” His Wife: 🤬

[@jamesthompson5287]

His brother 🤬

[@emmanuelg2321]

Antony's legacy is unmatched fr

[@rivalFCunited]

i swear

[@skoczek777]

I that "prince who never became the king" thing about Neymar isn't necessarily about comparing Neymar we have vs what he could have been, but the fact, that he among a lot of players wererefused to be the number one by extreme Messi and Ronaldo longevity. Ronaldo left Real at the age of 33, Messi left Barca at the age of 34. In previous generations it was about time for new top stars, but both Messi and Ronaldo were superstars when they were leaving Spain and when they moved to PSG and Man Utd respectively. They had to move outside Europe to finally draw the end line. It hurts the legacy of many forwards from that born late 80s early 90s generation: Benzema, Kane, Lewandowski, Griezmann, Lautaro Martinez, Hazard, Bale, Salah, Mane, Reus, Robben, Ribery and many others, but Neymar may be the primary victim. Because around that 2019-2021 window, he was the best version of himself.

[@Daledaft]

Justice for Hazard

[@SonglyWryt.Bon-Burr]

Maldini played against the best. Throughout the generations. And he didnt look like slowing down. VVD is not what his haters say. And not what his praisers say.

[@Jj-en9gk]

Very insightful and knowledgeable video bruv. Congratulations Very glad you went into football.

[@iprince7934]

I think the debate should be about ability because both prime and longevity can be misleading depending on thae case

[@alial-khalili9232]

Great video as always, you are one of few that genuinely has good football knowledge and is not biased, very refreshing to see

[@noerjacobs279]

Naah I actually agree with this one. Because players are only as good as we remember them to be. Unless the down fall was bad (Paul Pogba) but that doesn't take away from the fact he won almost everything as a player for club and country. As well possibly the longer you in the game the more likely you'll be called a legend. "Legend of your club" John Terry and Totti fosho or "legend of the game" = Zlatan "prime Hazard"

[@banelemchunu7479]

Basically, we should focus on what a player did for football instead of how long they did it

[@THENumber1Egg]

Rather have a player that gets 35+ G/A for 10 seasons straight then a player that's gets 50 G/A for 2 seasons then gets 10 G/A for the remaining 8 seasons

[@onetwo8847]

On this topic, just a reminder to everyone that like Giggs... Paul Scholes MASSIVELY benefits from the "longevity" argument, which caused people in hindsight after his career was over to make his prime seeing like it was better than it was. The debate during their primes when actually playing was always "gerrard vs lampard" then miraculously after he retired, it became "gerrard vs lampard vs scholes" in the 2010s out of nowhere. In Scholes' entire 19 season career, he never received a single ballon d'or vote (Gerrard - 220. Lampard - 169), made just 2 pfa TOTYs (gerrard made 8 whilst playing for FAR inferior prem teams). Forget winning a footballer of the year award, Scholes somehow never even won a Utd player of the season award... in 19 seasons lol. All people ever say in response to this is a bunch of quotes from other players talking about Scholes lol. I could give you the same about Mousa Dembélé... lol, it doesn't change his career...

[@zubychyle]

endricks 1942 prime was quite the spectacle if i do say so myself as well as nicholas jackson 2015 prime and we can't forget the legendary anthony 2008 prime( " too far for anthony... ooooargh")

[@randomguy1401]

bro i can't laugh at this time

[@seanimationsyt2220]

I believe you’re forgetting Mudryk 2009. It was just amazing. His rivalry with Anthony was something to watch

[@Renga-sy2gp]

​@@seanimationsyt2220just the best football ever hope there new youngster like Ronaldo and Messi can be the same

[@Edgeman10]

You know ball 💯

[@icey5276]

I think when talking about peaks you compare players in terms of being the "best", but when using the term "great" you need to have good longevity, to be the best of the best longer is good for a greater legacy but like r9 is the "best" striker ever but in terms of pure greatness strikers with longer careers and more achievements should be put over him, same reason i have salah over hazard

[@utjiuatjavara3787]

Longevity is more important than pure peak. For any athlete and especially for footballers your best ability is your availability. What good is peak if you are on the sideline. Also let's factor in competition these early defenders faced extremely tough atrackers. Van dyk only really had to worry about city players whilst players like Terry, vidic, ferdinand et al faced truly elite attackers across board

[@NevaCared-f6j]

I believe this too but if u give me 4 seasons of greatness vs 10 of consistency but never matched those 4 seasons for atleast 2 of those I'm considering the other better

[@TheOneandOnlyMe3]

​@@NevaCared-f6jExactly there's a level of balance

[@Senpapi_Leo]

I hate the what if talk cause some I feel like it misses out on why a said player was good. Ronaldihno for example what if he was disciplined? Fuck that that’s not in his behavior his carelessness the desire to have fun, it is shows in his play style.

[@yusavelli0448]

True

[@Jamesbenn1112]

If you put them both together this is why Kroos is top 3 midfielders of all time the guy has been peak for nearly all his career. More g+a, chances created, key passes, passing accuracy all per game than modric iniesta xavi and pirlo. Whilst dropping an all timer individual performance in the 2014 World Cup one of the best peaks and the best consistency

[@MrManager-p9f]

Comparing playmaker and cm by goals and assists and other opta Stas instead of your eyes is a fools errand kroos is nowhere near Iniesta or pirlo modric tho u can chat

[@nanakofi-sama1729]

That shade Paul scholes is crazy 😂

[@fardinc-yo8mj]

this is well articulated

[@Lancelot9587]

Agreed

[@Sinnlexi]

I think having a prime is much more important than longevity, being a legend or icon comes from being a difference maker and not someone who just makes a roster, just my opinion

[@hmmmmmm6901]

Prime is so easily over longevity to see who the best you got to look at them at their best

[@TheOneandOnlyMe3]

But it's the same logic as a one season wonder both count

[@hmmmmmm6901]

@@TheOneandOnlyMe3 prime is Prime YEARS atleast 5 years

[@TheOneandOnlyMe3]

@hmmmmmm6901 True but it's just an extension if someone was insane for three years and awful before and after they aren't better than the guy with seven straight world class seasons

[@TheOneandOnlyMe3]

Of course it all depends on how good and how long and what they achieved in those times to

[@hazardcfc539]

dudes who peak later are seen as having better longevity even if the actual time they spend at the top is constant. also, mileage matters almost as much as age. hazard in particular started playing mens football at 16 and was finished by 33. That's the same amt of time as someone starting to get serious minutes at 20 and retiring at 37.

[@nathanakobe5304]

I think overall, prime is a player’s peak, it showcases the player at his best when every considerable factor was primed for that player. However, consistency over time is a better metric because being talented and not being able to show up consistently or replicate those high levels seasonally, for long spells because of of injuries, loss of form or suspensions just denies you of a right to say you were better than someone else because of a moment. Normally win and qualify to win the most prestigious awards during their primes but for those wins or losses, it’s also a matter of timing like Benzema winning the balon d’ or and Lewandoski missing out due to politics. Still speaking of politics, I look at players with a wholesome perspective or at least I try to so I know for certain players like Pogba, Hazard, Neymar have already had great world class careers and the what might have been thing doesn’t apply for me because that’s like saying there is a much better player out there than Messi but we would never know because he never played football at that level so speculation isn’t my style. Players like Ribery in my evaluation are better than players like Hazard because he was great for different moments and he had longetivity in as much as he had injury concerns. Van dryk is great and I rate him over Kompany or Vidic even but I rate them all behind Terry because Terry was quality and he had a much longer career at the top. Now there’s the strange case of Sergio Ramos who has similar longevity but through his career, he had a fullback phase and a central back phase and I don’t think he was topnotch as a central back or at least not in the mould of Chielinni, Bargzali, Ruben Diaz,Kompany,Puyol etc so I might have to split his career into halves considering his quality in both positions over time which varies to me. Fernando Torres can’t be rated higher than say Drogba or Aguero or Suarez even though in his prime he was in the top 3 balon d or conversation. Neither can Owen with a single balon d’or win be looked at as being superior to Zlatan Ibrahimovic or Del Piero simply because of prime. To me Lewandoski’s is better than Suarez for the same reason. A more consistent performance over a longer period. So finally, top level consistency over a longer period in a player’s career beats prime.

[@theannoyedlink5153]

If you ask Juve fans, they will say Madrid got the best version of Zidane If you ask Madrid fans, they will say Juve got his best version There is also the theme of consistency, a player like Zidane was never consistent, and would only shine in a few games, sometimes those games were important ones and he would win a CL and a WC, sometimes he wouldn’t shine in important matches which is why he lost 3 finals, and was very discreet in the league competitions Thus, you can argue with a very good degree of objectivity that he just isn’t in the conversation of a greatest player ever, and I’d argue that there are better midfielders than Zidane, players who had longevity, consistency, and ridiculous peaks, like Xavi, Pirlo or Iniesta BUT, then there comes a point where narratives and nostalgia, as well as a sort of opposite recency bias, makes people think of Zidane as a better player than he was, or in general give him more greatness than he’d get with an objective look That, plus the fact that a Gatusso, Makelele, or even Pirlo or Xavi profile is just harder to really appreciate, makes it so that consistency and longevity aren’t as important as peak when it comes to old players, thus setting an imaginary standard that modern players just can’t possibly beat, making it so that if you compare De Bruyne to Zidane it is looked at as heresy, even if you could argue considerable points, I genuinely think we won’t accept just how ridiculous De Bruyne is until long after he retires, precisely due to those imaginary standards; and same goes for a lot of modern players who get overlooked despite being absolute legends of the sport, and still going strong

[@achemasabil4773]

This

[@misahammed5603]

Another 10/10 keep it us cuz

[@King_Leonidas723]

I personally think that we should just make best prime players vs best players should be a completely different debates

[@BiggestBirdonMars]

Longevity is important but shouldnt be valued over prime Some players prime is more than half their career Neymar gets so much disrespect online cuz of his PSG career but he is the best Brazilian winger to me and i dont mean greatest thats a completely different convo When it comes to skill, effectiveness and productivity hes un matched People saying ronaldinho was better than him but when neymar just beats him on probably any stat or maybe even skill moves Ronaldinho gives alot of people nostalgia so i understand

[@ayokartel1889]

random comment but it's nice seein a black american like me make football content 😭

[@17159R]

there is a big misconception about Hazard having a brief prime when he was consistent all the way from 18 yrs old in Lille till the transfer in Real ppl love ignoring his time prior Chelsea

[@DillonPais]

Great video mate but i would still prefer consistent players over great prime players. Reason why as a Liverpool fan, i prefer Salah over someone like Mane or Firmino in my team.

[@madeupstory9510]

That's too narrow and Salah did have the greatest prime amongst the 3. The longevity is just a plus.

[@CityOwnsManchester]

Good shit bro

[@YASSERZAHAR-c2u]

here's a problem with longevity modric at 39 years old 27 trophies iniesta at 34 30+ trophies i think longevity is dependant on the body but prime is dependant on your footballing ability

[@80HDpilled]

I think with Brazillian players its because they start their career super young and either get injured or stop caring and partying. You look at endrick he was the main player for his team at 17, Neymar the same with santos.

[@sympa_is_misanthropic]

For me, all this Twitter talk don’t move me bro. My preference is what I prefer, end of.

[@achemasabil4773]

True, not fall for narratives

[@Manuel3.1415]

You know ball gang

[@leonthethird7494]

How would you define prime tho? Their best season? The average of their best three season?

[@yeatdagoat173]

I agree with you 96%

[@notasquiremario3299]

what does sucking toes have to do with legacy😭

[@ntsakomathebula4840]

Prime hazard was different gravy, especially come Late February (Post Willian's January patch), on to May he was up there with Messi CR7 and Neymar, what I'm saying is not a joke its a fact.

[@LBJ-s9n]

There was no point in time where Hazard was as good as the big 3😂😂

[@ntsakomathebula4840]

@@LBJ-s9n yes, as i said late febuary to may top 5 2010's player

[@LBJ-s9n]

@@ntsakomathebula4840 18/19? It was Messi, Neymar, VVD then u could argue Hazard

[@yusavelli0448]

Hazard was wc his whole career till Madrid, no such thing as prime

[@ezekielphiri2607]

It's nostalgia😂

[@_djsmooth_]

The disrespect thrown at hazard has been wild to see lmao. His stint at Real Madrid was ass sure but folks gonna act like he wasn’t cooking the prem for years and almost won a World Cup too. Easily in the conversation for the third best player in the world imo during his peak

[@LBJ-s9n]

At their respective peaks it was Messi, Ronaldo then Neymar stop trying to rewrite history the gap between Neymar and everyone else is underexaggerated, he's closer to Ronaldo than 4th place(Suarez) is to him, Hazard's peak is definitely top 10 though.

[@_djsmooth_]

@@LBJ-s9nIdk I’d say peak hazard is close to peak Neymar but I can respect you putting him in the third spot, he was definitely cooking in his prime wasn’t trying to downplay that

[@noerjacobs279]

Also No fantasy league? Maybe you should create one for your subs😅

[@adidevchafle]

Peak>>longevity

[@Kellykmixtape]

Wassup manda

[@Kellykmixtape]

Great video btw

[@YODAA.303]

Ronaldo longevity is overrated im a Madrid fan and ill tell you he was done by 30

[@LBJ-s9n]

Exactly, the physical decline was evident he no longer impacted the game as he used to was a full time poacher and the "stinkers" got covered up by trophies tbh

[@YODAA.303]

@@LBJ-s9n nahhhh not stinkers but he's less involved in the game since 2014/15 but he scored more goals tho 👀

[@TheOneandOnlyMe3]

​@YODAA.303 No he's just like Haaland now but far better

[@YODAA.303]

@@TheOneandOnlyMe3 fax

[@YODAA.303]

Check my beats

[@lsmbatha3585]

foootball really has the most biased fans

[@bet9443]

Yooo

[@mandafrombk]

@@bet9443 yeooooo what’s good 🫡🫡