The Legend of the Aryan Invasion Theory | Arth - A Culture Fest 2023.

Join us in unravelling the complex debate surrounding ‘The Legend of the Aryan Invasion Theory’ with renowned scholars Koenraad Elst and Niraj Rai along in conversation with moderator Kushal Mehra. They share their well-versed and firm views on this topic of conversation among many.
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[@Roar1921]

It is endearing to see Konraed Elst agitated about Kharge's comment in the parliament. He is more passionate than most Bharatiyas

[@adityaraj2447]

Lol he's a foreigner

[@raghavnamasivayam8706]

​@Aditya Raj well the comments you made are crap there is no evidence for armenia as homelands

[@adityaraj2447]

@@raghavnamasivayam8706 lol 😂 See The Latest Southern arc Papers by David Reich And Harvard University

[@raghavnamasivayam8706]

@Aditya Raj well central asia could be the homeland aim theory the genecist isn't a person who determines homeland it's more to russia

[@adityaraj2447]

@@raghavnamasivayam8706 yes Central asia could be a possible homeland.. there's No Doubt About It

[@nihilisttrader1249]

I recommend everybody to read Koenraad Elst's books. Especially "Negationism in India"

[@hanniballecter1734]

Will do. Thank you for the recommendation.

[@Volv0x.]

What's that book about??

[@Joseph-yu4lx]

Hired so called experts try to change the past to the wish and desires of some vested interests.

[@suchita52]

Abhijit Chavda has debunked the so called Aryan invasion. He also came up with the theory, that I understood, that genetically all Indians, Afghanistan, far east Thailand, Cambodia, Indonesia, Singapore, Laos, Vietnam etc have the same genetic data. All Indians have the same genetic data.

[@kishanraj8865]

Acha.. who is Abhijit chavda.. what are his credentials and scholarships? Bhai ab kisi ko bhi dekh ke mat uchla karo... Of course Aryan invasion theory is BS.. but still we do not have very credible evidence to debunk it, neither the other side has evidence to prove it.. Internet pe ye 2-4 naye launde aa gaye hain and they pass themselves as "experts" which they are not

[@litreallyyou]

@@kishanraj8865 🤣🤣😂😂degree kids logic

[@kishanraj8865]

@@litreallyyou degree kids?? Didn't get ya..

[@adityasaigal8080]

​@@kishanraj8865 how many books have you read on this theory?? Means both sides. The books which are proving it and the books which are countering it??? The so called 2-4 launde actually take facts from references and books. Ab ya tau par lo, or galat sabit kar do unhe proof ke saath. Or agar par nahi sakte or kuch prove nahi kar sakte ho tau gyan dena acha nahi lagta hai. At least they all are presenting history in a impressive and interesting manner. Iske alawa or bhi kayi western you tubers bhi hai, authors bhi hein, jo acha khasa kaam kar rahe hei, balki kar chuke hein. Stephen knapp is one of them, true legend. So dekho, mein sehmat hoon, ki saari baatein ya cheezien jo in you tubers dwara batayi jaati hai, sahi na ho, par they provide references also. Hum kitaab tau par he sakte hein.

[@asmitdutta841]

@@kishanraj8865 The burden of proof/evidence lies on the side which proposes something.....not on the side which opposes it only because it lacks evidence....in the case of AIT none of the scholars have provided proper evidence to support it which automatically debunks it.....

[@deepachakravarthy9619]

My question is- If historians and scholars have busted Aryan Invasion theory; then why are we having Talks and seminars titled on the subject? Can the title of discussions change and shift to Sarasvati-Sindh Civilisation? Unless we change the nomenclatures how will people change their attitude?

[@nirvanabliss73]

this theory was debunked in the 1960s or so by global academia. Its an eternal wonder to me why these kind of discussions happen. Are the speakers still stuck in the 1960s? Crazy

[@sirthomasfishnchips2477]

​@@nirvanabliss73 It isn't debunked out still sadly, quite a large no. of Westerns and following them our people still subscribe to this Aryan Invasion theory. Citing lack of proof

[@nirvanabliss73]

@@sirthomasfishnchips2477 There are also a minority of people who believe in Flat Earth theory. But that doesnt mean mainstream scholars hold session after session arguing how the earth is not flat but is round. One lets them be because the rest of the world has moved on. Thats why this particular session seems crazy

[@think-vj]

@@nirvanabliss73 it is because still many Indians believe in hoax of aryan invasion as it is politically motivated

[@nirvanabliss73]

@@think-vj who is still politically motivating people ? and how do we know many indians still believe in AIT?

[@chillymango5590]

Apna bhai Kushal has done a great job compering multiple debates. Well done Kushal!

[@Joseph-yu4lx]

In history what happened is happened. You cannot change as 😊 you desire. Instead of invasion say intrusion. It is quite natural for any people seeking new pastures.

[@MrLee-gj2jz]

What Koenraad Elst missed to explain in the talk is the origins of the AIT in Europe. In the 1800s, it was believed that God created Adam as a blue-eyed blonde and spoke to him in a language called "Adamic". The creation week took place between October 18 -23, 4004 BC and Adam was created on the last day, i.e., October 23rd at 0900 hrs 45th meridian time. The problem was now to figure out where on Earth was the original garden of Eden, the reconstruction of the so-called Adamic language, and placing all historical events within a chronology that started in 4004 BC. Hence, Max Müller gave a date of 1500 BC for the composition of the Rig Veda, as this event could not have the preceded the creation event. The Book of Genesis points out to the sons of Noah as Shem, Ham, and Japheth. In medieval Europe, Japheth was considered to be the progenitor of the White Race. Shem was considered to be the ancestor of Middle Eastern people with Ham's descendants populating Africa. The Göttingen School of History introduced the terms Semitic, Hamitic, and Japhetic for three supposed races of man. An alumnus of the school, Johann Friedrich Blumenbach (1752-1840) started the discipline of comparative anthropology and tried to derive a justification for the supposed racial differences using skull measurements. Blumenbach's thesis titled, "On the Natural Variety of Mankind", used craniological measurements to classify humans into Caucasian, Mongolian, Malayan, Ethiopian, and American. Blumenbach proposed that the "most beautiful skull" was that of a European found near the Caucasus mountains (hence Caucasian), and proposed that the homeland of Europeans were in the Caucasus. The corollary of his argument is that Adam was Caucasian, and upto Noaah (who was ninth in descent from Adam) all humans were Caucasian. The divergence in humans into separate races was assumed to begin from the sons of Noah: Shem, Ham, and Jepheth. These ideas spread like wild fire through Europe. If there was indeed a single origin for all humans and that human was a European, then where did that race live? What language did they speak? Linguists now joined the fray as they seeked to reconstruct the original language of the Jephetic race. The combination of the anthropological findings of Blumenbach and Gaston's work on the similarities between Latin, Greek, and Sanskrit lead to the following conclusions: (i) the original race spoke a language called PIE (originally referred to as Adamic) (ii) the original race came out of a PIE homeland; that homeland was somewhere in the Steppe (iii) the original race was pure as they descended from Japheth who retained the race of Adam (iv) the PIE migrated out of their homeland and are responsible for all of human achievement Charles Darwin's theory of Evolution in the 1860s sent shock waves through Europe as he posited a radical new hypothesis that humans evolved out of apes rather than being created in an instant. Lord Kelvin's derivation of the Age of Earth (even though incorrect) in the 1890s shattered the established chronology with the Earth now being billions of years old. The 1960s saw the Theory of plate tectonics gain widespread acceptance. The Out of Africa theory in the 1970s combined with the power of gene sequencing dismantled the notion that humans came out of a Central Asian homeland and has permanently removed Central Asia as an epicentre of migration. Given that so much scholarship and effort was spent on "inventing" mythical Proto-Indo-Europeans / Aryans speaking a mythical Proto-Indo-European / Aryan language over centuries, a silent decoupling has taken place since these models stand no water anymore. The PIE language reconstruction has been cunningly cast as a separate sub-topic of linguistics. The PIE homeland identification is similarly decoupled from a general study of human migration patterns. The researchers in these fields have no interest in studying the phase in mankind's evolution before the PIE entered their supposed homeland. The language reconstruction experts also have no interest in reconstructing human languages prior to the time when the PIE language is supposed to have evolved. The current state of affairs is quite sordid. A Judaeo-Christian scientific lobby wants to push the PIE homeland to the Hoiy Land while a secular-but-racist scientific lobby prefers Caucasian homeland. Any one who comes with a different theory (Out of India / Out of China etc) is shamed and subject to ridicule by the two entrenched factions.

[@indianhistoryarchaeology]

Harappans traveled for trade across Central Asia (mainly for Lapis Lazuli), the Persian Gulf (sea route) and of course, Mesopotamia which was their major market. We have evidence of a Harappan colony (settlement) in Mesopotamia and a few burials across the region including one in the Oman Peninsula. These should be seen as trading outposts much like today's Indian companies and businessmen in Gulf countries. More important for archaeologists is the emulation of Harappan culture that we find in these places which tells us of their status outside India.

[@sanjayshah4372]

KONRAED ELST is simply fantastic. Very rational, logical, succinct honest/objective human. His passion and knowledge is too good. 🙏

[@sree18697]

(A) Quran 2:191 “Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.” (B) Quran 3:28 “Muslims must not take infidels as friends” (C) Quran 3:85 “Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable” (D) Quran 5:33 “Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam” (E) Quran 8:12 “Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than Quran” (F) Quran 8:60 “Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels” (G) Quran 8:65 “The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them” (H) Quran 9:5 “Whenever opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them” (I) Quran 9:123 “Make war on infidels living in your neighborhood” (J) Quran 47:4 “Do not hanker for peace with infidels; behead them when you catch them”

[@statickk14]

Are you a troll? How is this post relevant here?

[@obitouchiha-me9yj]

Now they will say u did not read so this is whatsapp university and again say islam is so peaceful

[@obitouchiha-me9yj]

@@statickk14 personally i dont care if this is relevent or irrelevant but every "infidel" must know this

[@tattvabodhaka6140]

Why is Abhijit Chavda not here? He would've been the ideal moderator for this discussion. Kushal did a great job no doubt but Chavda sir could've been a panelist at least

[@rohaansahu2924]

Agree

[@lalluchettan]

Mr Chavda is not a historian. Nor is Mr Mehra. We can't have non-experts handling such stuff

[@kishanraj8865]

​@@lalluchettan exactly..this does Right wing more harm than good... I don't know why people on our side are not "that bright"..

[@MrLee-gj2jz]

@@lalluchettan What is the role of a historian in deciphering whether an invasion took place in 1500 BC? What was needed was an archaeo-lingust, an archaeologist, a computational geneticist, and a Sanskrit scholar.

[@sanchayansarkar2953]

Chavda is not an expert in this debate to be a panelist. The person who should have been here in Shrikant Talageri although Konrad can explain his position well.

[@sanjayshah4372]

Now,....we need to discuss the OUT OF INDIA THEORY

[@Joseph-yu4lx]

Truth is truth. Past is past. What happened is happened. You cannot change as you desire. These hired so called gentlemen also cannot change.

[@Agrfbjjdgbh]

Ms Anupriyas 'Caste no bat' article in the Nature dated 19 april 23.

[@Agrfbjjdgbh]

'Caste no bar' by Anupriya. Article in Nature monthly journal of 19 April 23

[@gravewalker34]

We are not obsessed with this theory. It is the western harvard geneticists who fitted the Indian clades of Y HAplogoups under the steppe schythians/sakas. And steppes themself have 40-50% dna from iran or caucasus.

[@vincentdavis1926]

Speak on plague genetics and 5000 year old origin of yersinia pestis

[@Agrfbjjdgbh]

All pervasive Steppe ancestry is evident in North India, ANI. The effective period being 4200bp to 1900bp. As opposed to the south indian ASI.

[@x.seed.in.]

It's Aryan picnic theory

[@padmaoruganti9179]

The word' Aaryan' means knowledgeable in Sankrit!! Aryan also spelled Ariyan, Arian, Aryann or Aaryan is a given name and surname that is popular in India and Iran. The name Aryan is derived from the Sanskrit (ārya) meaning noble, superior or high born !!

[@sanchayansarkar2953]

In the rgveda Arya did not mean noble . It definitely referred to certain clans.

[@Vikramaditya_108]

​@@sanchayansarkar2953no

[@Joseph-yu4lx]

Such honourable meanings are given for themselves by themselves.

[@Sunny-rh6ik]

👍

[@DipakBose-bq1vv]

Aryans, derived from the original Sanskrit word Arya, means cultivated educated person, according to Sri Aurobindo, used to have very high moral standard with great regard for truth, promise and hospitality. Their sages, or Rishis, after many years of meditations and learning, derived some great ideas or hymns(Riks) on God and universe. Recent DNA evidence shows that Europe experienced a massive population influx from the east, beginning around 4,500 years from the present. Several haplo-groups were involved in this expansion, including the Indian-origin R1a1a. This was almost a total replacement event, which indicates that Indo-Aryans, among others, expanded westward into Europe and to a large extent replaced indigenous European males and their Y-chromosome strata (Sharma and his associates, 2009) This genetic evidence indicates that several Y-chromosomal (patrilineal) lineages, one of which was the Indian-origin R1a1a, gave rise to the modern European population. Out of these lineages, R1a1a is the most widespread and numerous. Recent DNA evidence shows that Europe experienced a massive population influx from the east, beginning around 4,500 years from the present. Several haplo-groups were involved in this expansion, including the Indian-origin R1a1a. This was almost a total replacement event, which indicates that Indo-Aryans, among others, expanded westward into Europe and to a large extent replaced indigenous European males and their Y-chromosome strata (Sharma and his associates, 2009) This genetic evidence indicates that several Y-chromosomal (patrilineal) lineages, one of which was the Indian-origin R1a1a, gave rise to the modern European population. Out of these lineages, R1a1a is the most widespread and numerous. It proves that: 1. The R1a haplogroup originated in India. 2. The Indo-Aryan people have lived in India for at least 15,450 years, which invalidates the theory that the Indo-Aryans invaded India 3,500 years ago. 3. The hundreds of millions of members (possibly over a billion) of the R1a family living across the world today - a very large fraction of humanity - are all descended from one single male ancestor who lived in India at least 15,450 years ago. This discovery demonstrates the close genetic (and hence linguistic and cultural) affinity of Indians with the Russian and Polish people, the Vikings and Normans, and with the ancient Scythians and Tocharians, among many others (Sharma et al, 2009). References: Sharma S., 2009, The Indian origin of paternal haplogroup R1a1* substantiates the autochthonous origin of Brahmins and the caste system. Journal of Human Genetics, 54, 47-55 Sarker, A., A., Deshpande , A., Mukherjee, M. K., Bera,, B., Das, N., Juyal, P., Morthekai, R. D. , Deshpande, V. S., Shinde, V., & Rao, L. S., 2016, Oxygen isotope in archaeological bioapatites from India: Implications to climate change and decline of Bronze Age Harappan civilization, Nature, Scientific Reports volume 6, Article number: 26555.

[@francisbacon4363]

10:00

[@shreeki7908]

Video title is misleading, Legend=history + mythology. Aryan theory is just a story of myth no real history involved.

[@ghumantu6601]

Change your starting music khodo-khodo

[@tsamgurkhan]

The only thing is that proponents of AIT never debate with the alternative theorians. There is also clash between origin of Aryans, one being Anatolia and one being Ukraine. They discard and degrade eachother. And AIT based on nothing but 'maybe'. No archaeological backing, no proof of actual language (there is no written evidence of Proto-Indo-European Language - the made up lingo is jingo, you can read papers, like linking Pitr and Father to a earlier source which they dont know), no literary evidence.

[@utubetruthteller]

may be many wandering sadhus from india have changed Europe by influencing their language and culture

[@user-xp9de2qy5f]

Hehe .....kala kushal❤️

[@SaiyyadInnayaYassir]

❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️🤲

[@TropicOfCancer1998]

IranN/CHG were the Aryans. CHG invaded steppe and formed Yamnaya according to Southern arc paper by losif and Reich

[@MrRk540]

The idocy is that it could have been one contiguous interaction over a long period of time. Central Asia is not very far from India. It is about the same distance as Kanyakumari or South India from North India. It is about a 1500-1600 miles. Central ASIA is certainly not Ukraine. If that is your theory that central Asia is Ukraine and really not Kazakastan and whereabouts, you really need to ask yourself if you are making any sense. Iran, Central Asia, North India are really not very far from each other to expect significant genetic diversity. It would be wonderment if there was Genetic Diversity. The Steppe is way too far from India but not so much from Kazkastan. The BOVINE theory tells you that this itneraction must have been more contiguous than believed.

[@tsamgurkhan]

I think you are totally choosing to ignore the totally mountainous region of Central Asia. The only way to India would be through South Afghanistan. All invasion/migration, both inwards and outwards happened through this region. It's stupid to believe that Steppe Pastoralist came from the north of Afghanistan. Also, the time period they are referring to, already a developed society existed in North India, North Iran and Levant and also Egypt. The Linguists who propounded AIT and still do, totally ignore the mountainous region and the colder climate, that is totally illogical from their point of view. Also, the wave of Female DNA is from India to outwards. Even, there is ample proof that R* developed in North India or South Iran. This is a proven fact. Why would these R* would go to Steppes (roughly pre-8000 BC, which is at the end of Last Ice Age) leaving perfect weather near seas with ample water and greenery and settle in area in India and Iran where there was ample resources? I read all the papers, especially David Reich's paper (who considers Dark Skin Color is related lower IQ). First they publish that R1b is precursor to R1 and R1a. Second, they combined Iranians and Central Ukrainian and also the turkic regionals into one big Steppe Ancestry. They have not given any particular reason.

[@MrRk540]

@@tsamgurkhan I am absolutely not ignoring that. I had another post where I listed all the hurdles to cross to come into India. This one is not it. Ukraine is way across the Black Sea. What did these people do? Come via Iran. That is the most likely thing that happened. However, to get from there to India across those deserts and mountain ranges is a much harder proposition. Most folks do not understand the logistics required to move an army. Unless you set up bases from where you can create supply lines, there is no invasion of any kind that is happening. Especially against an established population of a much larger size than you. It does not require one to read papers to establish this. David Reich in my opinion is a moron. You can throw his work in the trash. This is true of all Indologists of the West and the linguists of the west. Without a reasonable path of which these people took and the numbers in which they came, it is not much of a theory. It is bogus propaganda.

[@tsamgurkhan]

@@MrRk540 Well, there is no Archaeological Evidence that they came to Iran from Ukraine, neither through the Georgia Armenia route, neither through Bactria Route. On the contrary, there is evidence that the culture of Mesopotamia and Hittite spreads northward. That is through Armenia. No Archaeological Evidence supports that there is way from Ukraine to Iran. That is the reason why the proponents of AIT never claim that path. This is also the proposition of Anatolians Hypothesis where also enough evidence suggests that the flow was from North Iran to Ukraine. That is why the AIT proponents suggest that it must be Bactria. But neither is there evidence. Also, they claim that the Aryans came from Bactria to India and Iran. Then one group spread West to form Mittani and Hittites. That is also without any archaeological evidence. You do understand that the whole AIT is based on a imaginary Proto Indo European Language, which has no Archaeological Evidence or Literary Evidence. Claims without Evidence don't stand long. I understand the Indian Politicians using it for their Politics but science cannot stand on imagination.

[@sanjayshah4372]

EVIDENCE SUPPORTING THE OUT OF INDIA THEORY (1of3) ========================= Ireland is one of a few places of Celtic world that was not conquered by early Christians & Romans, (thus not influenced by Latin until Christianity in the 5th Century CE). The Celts were once dominant throughout Europe, but both Romans and Christianity did away with their way of life, except in Ireland. This meant that the ANCIENT CELTIC IRISH CUSTOMS & ANCIENT LANGUAGE, remain intact, or were not destroyed in Ireland. If you follow the research into ANCIENT CELTIC SOCIETY, CUSTOMS, CULTURE, PRACTICES, MYTHOLOGY, POEMS, KNOWLEDGE, TECHNOLOGY, ASTROLOGY, the actual OLD IRISH VOCABULARY & WORDS.....there are very interesting and compelling parallels between ancient Irish culture and Hinduism.

[@sonukumarchoubey4510]

Konrad Elst 👍Neeraj Rai👏

[@ShivamChauhan-ze5tz]

Great to see walter white here!!

[@sanjayshah4372]

EVIDENCE SUPPORTING THE OUT OF INDIA THEORY (2of3) ========================= Danu in Sanskrit also means "divine waters" Among the ancient Celts, Danu was regarded as the "Mother Goddess." The Irish Gods and Goddesses were the Tuatha De Danaan ("Children of Danu"). Danu was the "divine waters" falling from heaven ............Many European rivers bear the name of Danu-the Rhône (ro-Dhanu, "Great Danu") and several rivers called Don. Rivers were sacred in the Celtic world, and places where votive offerings were deposited and burials often conducted. The Thames, which flows through London, still bears its Celtic name, from Tamesis, the dark river, which is the same name as Tamesa, a tributary of the Ganges Not only is the story of Danu and the Danube a parallel to that of Ganga and the Ganges but a Hindu Danu appears in the Vedic story "The Churning of the Oceans," a story with parallels in Irish and Welsh mytholgy. Have you heard of the Historian Peter Berresford Ellis ? He is a leading expert on the CELTS & DRUIDS in Europe. He recognises and documents the associations between Druids and Brahmins. druidry.org/druid-way/other-paths/druidry-dharma

[@pradeepchandru3474]

Did he just say "before christ"? Isn't it BC = before common era?

[@Ragnar638]

BCE =Before common era

[@dikshit2056]

Both same

[@godfatherezio]

Before Common Era is a secular version of Before Christ, both are the same.

[@ishaniel7105]

They're the same

[@Ragnar638]

The historicity of a biblical jesus is disputed. Eventhough the name yeshua was common among jews, no such first hand accounts exists of a jew named Yeshua who resurrected after death. By the time scientists and academicians decided to discard using Before Christ(BC), a lot of history books and academic texts had already been published for over 3 centuries with the term. Therefore, Before Christ was changed to Before Common Era (BCE). In short words, BCE is the secular term used by academicians instead of BC as there is no compelling evidence for a resurrection.

[@omkar7372]

Abhijit chadva could be best for this

[@krishnajar]

He’s not a scientist

[@omkar7372]

@@krishnajar very good speaker

[@lalluchettan]

About Elst's cattle theory: One study published in the journal Molecular Biology and Evolution in 2017 analysed the DNA of ancient cattle bones from archaeological sites in India and compared them to modern cattle populations from around the world. The study found at least two distinct waves of cattle migration into India from the Middle East, one around 4500 years ago and another around 3000 years ago. The researchers concluded that these migrations likely involved the movement of people and their cattle and may have been linked to the spread of agriculture and pastoralism in the region.

[@Ragnar638]

Wtf? 😂 You already have lots of evidence of indian humped cattle dna in european cattle and no bos taurus cattle dna anywhere in indian bos indicus, this europe sympathizer christian friend always have something to bash everything indian 🤣

[@lalluchettan]

@@Ragnar638 Yes, there is genetic evidence that suggests that Indian cattle breeds have contributed to the genetic makeup of some European cattle breeds. Studies have shown that the zebu cattle, which originated in South Asia and are commonly found in India, have contributed genetic material to several European cattle breeds, including the Podolica, Romagnola, and Marchigiana breeds in Italy and the Hungarian Grey and Murboden breeds in Austria. This confirms the historical crossbreeding between Indian and European cattle. BTW, my religion or the lack of it is irrelevant in this conversation. Since you brought it up, I can now classify you as communal and a bigot.

[@technoyamraj]

​@@lalluchettan you PPL especially of foreign religion compel us to become communal .... By the way who is bigot is visible by your main comment which is baseless and absurd ....✌️

[@MrLee-gj2jz]

From Utsunomiya et al (2019), the Bos Indicus and the Bos Taurus are two subspecies that diverged from the extinct wild auroch Bos primigenius between 280,000 - 330,000 years ago. They propose that the Bos indicus migrated to Europe around 4200 years ago (2200 BC), migrated to around China 3500 years ago (1500 BC) and to Africa around 1300 years ago (300 AD). Perez-Pardal (2018) push the date of the introduction of the bos indicus into Africa to 1000 BC through oceanic Indian Ocean trade between India and the Horn of Africa. The bos indicus then appears in West Africa following Sahelian routes. Ref: Utsunomiya YT et al [2019], Genomic clues of the evolutionary history of Bos indicus cattle, Animal Genetics, 50: 557-568 Perez-Pardal et al (2018), Loegacies of domestication, trader and herder mobility shape extant male zebu cattle diversity in South Asia and Africa, Nature Scientific Reports, 8 (18027) From Loftus et al (1994) and Beja-Pereira et al (2006), the domestication of Bos Taurus and Bos Indicus from the wild aurochs were two independent events taking place in the Fertile Crescent and India, respectively, starting 11000 years ago (9000 BC). The same conclusion is arrived at by Chen S et al (2010), who posit that the zebu cattle are an exclusive legacy of South Asia with the primary domestication centre being the IVC with a date assigned for the domestication event as 8000 BC. Ref: Loftus RT et al (1994), Evidence for two independent domestications of cattle, PNAS, Vol 91 (7), 2757 - 2761 Beja-Pererira et al [2006], The origin of European cattle: Evidence from modern and ancient DNA, PNAS, Vol. 103 (21), 8113-8118 Chen et al (2010), Zebu cattle Are an Exclusive Legacy of the South Asia Neolithic, Molecular Biology and Evolution, Vol.27 (1), 1-6 Chen et al (2010) comment that China has both breeds of cattle, indicus and taurus, with the former entering South China through the North East of India around 1500 BC and the latter entering Northern China from Central Asia between 3000 - 2000 BC. An Iranian study by Karimi et al (2016), conclude that Iranian cattle are a mix of indicine and taurine with the indicine component dominating in 6 out of 8 studied regions within Iran. Cattle in the Iranian provinces of Kerman, Pars, Sistan, Najd, Mazandaran, and Gilan are predominatly indicine whereas in Kurdistan and in East Azerbaijan the cattle are predominantly taurine. The distribution corresponds to an indicine influence over entire of Iran with the taurine influence restricted to the North-West of Iran. Ref: Karimi K et al [2016], Local and global patterns of admixture and population structure in Iranian native cattle, BMC Genetics, 17 (108) We now move to genetic studies of cattle from Iraq. Alshawi et al (2019) studied two breeds of Iraqi cattle, the Jenoubi and the Rustaqi. The Jenubi is found in the South East portion of the Tigris-Euphrates while the Rustaqi is found in the central part close to Baghdad. Interestingly, both the breeds showed indicine component with more indicine component in the Jenoubi. The authors hypothesize that the increased taurine component of the Rustaqi is partly due to recent gene flow when Holstein-Friesian breeds were introduced from the Netherlands in the 20th century. We now move to cattle breeds from Turkey. Ates et al (2014) studied two indigenous cattle breeds found within Turkey, the South Anatolian Red (SAR) and the East Anatolian Red (EAR). They conclude that both the breeds are closer to bos indicus than bos taurus. How does one find so much evidence of bos indicus from South China, Iran, Iraq, and Turkey? What explains this geographic spread? Ref: Alshawi A et al (2019), Genome analysis reveals genetic admixture and signature of selection for productivity and environmental traits in Iraqi cattle, Frontiers in Genetics, 10:609 Ates A et al (2014), Genotype and allele frequencies of polymorphisms in ABCG2, PPARGC1A and OLR1 genes in indigenous cattle breeds in Turkey, Acta Veterinaria, Vol. 64 (1), 73-80 Semeneko (2019) develops a hypothesis based on all these observations. They propose that the Indo-Aryans are native to India, domesticated the Zebu in India around 7000 BC, and then migrated out of India to Afghanistan, south Central Asia, Iran, Syria, Anatolia, Cyprus, and Palestine, taking their zebu cattle with them. The author depicts zebu figurines from 3000 BC in Afghanistan, 2900-2600 BC in Shahdad (Iran), the BMAC from 2300-1600 BC, 1700 BC in Syria, 1500 BC in Iraq, 1230 BC in Cyprus, 1200 BC in Israel, 1000 BC in Turkey. A relief from the temple of Ramesses III depicts Sea Peoples invading Egypt in carts driven by zebu bulls.

[@lalluchettan]

@@MrLee-gj2jz I'm not going to waste my time on you.

[@jiggy3s]

Replace the term 'aryan' with 'ashura' and all will make sense as documented in our puranas and ithihasa. The western indologists gave a twist by replacing ashura with aryan. There were ashura intrusions, invasions and assimilation in vedic and puranic times which the puranic avatara purushas or heros defeted. Indra varuna atharvan raghu kethu were all assimilated. Krishna shunned indra worship. All is fitting in well now. I am sure everyone will converge on this.

[@skguntur]

No one brought any wisdom, knowledge etc., to BHARATH from outside. The knowledge,education, Gurutvam(Preachers and Teachers) of Dharma was born in BHARATH., along with the Creation of ONES with life, could be Humans, Animals and what ever with life physically and scientifically took shape in the Sacred Bhoomy, BHARATH…… & Bharatheeyulu spread to other parts of the Universe…… My field of Education was not in those related divisions of the fields…. But I feel that ARYAN THEORY is/was creation by the self gloating researchers from the Ones in the west….. Aryan theory is a Hoax….. Forgive my Ignorance……..

[@abhijeetdolai5820]

India has been trolled brutally. Very brutally.

[@sharmilakalain7549]

Riveting.

[@lindyswing4368]

Listening to Niraj is a waste of time.....hasn't said anything substantial.

[@theybecameus]

kala kawwa kushal kushalbuddin

[@sanjeevgupta7666]

Cando Shikaari

[@1mboldaslove]

Aryan invasion propaganda

[@theybecameus]

kala kushal kushalbuddin

[@devvratmishra9000]

Kushal don't go by this bot , tu Dr. Elst se bhi zyada gora hai

[@Volv0x.]

Who's the bot ?

[@Ariyaan666]

Plural word of Arya is Aryan/Arya+gan/ similar to Manushy gan plural of manushya(man), Devgan plural of Dev/Devta, similar to plural of Bhaktgan/Bhakjan etc, Aryan invasion theory is Abrahamic nonsense

[@shruthivinay2009]

Why the panel is not considering Jainism and Buddhism.. and language of them.. way older than sanskrit.. Prakruth especially which is used for jain scriptures..

[@brown_adam1]

Not to disrespect you in anyway but are you familiar, like actually familiar with history of languages? What you have written, would you consider it as Queen's English (assuming you know the variations of English)? Similarly, the polished and sophisticated language was Sanskrit as old as time and prakrit was kind of common man's language. Just like Queen's English vs Irish/Scottish/US English.

[@neon-astronaut]

Nah

[@deepachakravarthy9619]

Buddhism and Jainism is much later period. The timeline they are discussing is much earlier

[@nirvanabliss73]

@@brown_adam1 Sanskrit is polished and sophisticated and common man's language is barbarian? I think we should stop casteism in languages

[@godfatherezio]

@@nirvanabliss73 Where did he say barbarian language? It was just an easier language to communicate in compared to Sanskrit (which was reserved for scientific treatises and literature). Similar to how Latin is the scientific language but not used by common people.

[@mogambo4565]

There is clear evidence of steppe people moving from steppes by their burial practices like mounds before they entered India they had settlements in bactria margiana. Some of these tribes moved to Europe some to Assyria and some entered persia and then India. Regarding the cattle movement some harappans have been found in bmac complex which may be related to trade between the cultures maybe this breed of cattle was superior hence they were traded amongst steppe people and reached Ukraine. There are way too many simple explanations of these people entering India yet the out of india theorists are trying to disprove it since it will make a certain group of people as outsiders who try to call Muslims as outsider so their politics can survive and they can't demonize Muslims as outsiders to come to power. And crops and agriculture doesn't explain a new population entering India there are genetic markers you can't deny.

[@nirvanabliss73]

Indian scholars will become a laughing stock of the world because of such 'experts'. The world is moving fast ahead and our 'scholars' are discussing the Aryan Invasion Theory which was debunked in the 1960s or so

[@godfatherezio]

People don't call muslims outsiders because of their race, but because of their ideology. Muslims in India are the same race as everyone else.

[@RD-pp9ds]

I don't understand on what basis Mr Neeraj Rai discards aryan invasion, even according to his own findings. If his findings in rakhigarhi suggest that there was no Steppe ancestry in the female DNA found in Haryana, then that clearly proves the Aryan Invasion as modern-day upper caste haryanvis like jats and brahmins have relatively much more steppe dna while haryanvi dalits have lesser steppe genes and more native/Indian/non steppe genes.

[@prince.8022]

Dude R1a is only found among males... Steppe ancestry is only among males..

[@sagarpaul7934]

Modern day jaats and gujurs were scythians , the came later in india during Buddha period and assimilate themselves in local cultural hierarchy and whole aryan thing timeline was different.

[@Kratos9407]

Chamars (Scheduled Caste/Dalits) from NW India like Haryana also have 20% Steppe. Reference- Narasimhan et al 2019 (The Formation of Human Populations in South and Central Asia, SuppleT S5)

[@kunal7503]

A more sensible theory says Huns and Shakas contributed to steppe ancestry

[@RD-pp9ds]

@Sagar Paul whether they were schythians or whatever is irrelevant because their genetic makeup is very similar to the so called obcs and brahmins and they also have steppe ancestry like UCs.

[@lalluchettan]

In fact, the nail in the coffin came from Niraj Rai when he said that historians have rejected the Aryan Invasion Theory completely. This is a strawman put by right-wing nationalists when nothing of this sort exists.

[@lalluchettan]

Again, Elst is wrong about Tony Joseph. In fact, Tomy Joseph is a vocal critic of the Aryan invasion theory and believes that it has been used to promote colonialist and supremacist ideologies. He calls for a more nuanced and evidence-based understanding of Indian history and culture.

[@LS-ql4wp]

You hv not read his articles then... he literally wrote an article on david reich paper claiming aryan migration! Niraj rai a co author clearly states here that genetics says some admixture around 500 BC mostly due to sakas, huns etc

[@lalluchettan]

@@LS-ql4wp You are unintelligible

[@statickk14]

Tony Joseph is one the lapdogs of western academics

[@tsamgurkhan]

Tony Joseph thinks Dravidians are related to Levants. Such bullshit to relate to abrahamics. This is Propaganda to push Conversion.

[@theybecameus]

kala kawwa kushal kushalbuddin

[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

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[@1mboldaslove]

bsdk yai kaam hai kya kushal ko kala bolna , ulti gand ke

[@theybecameus]

@@1mboldaslove teri maa randi

[@theybecameus]

kala kawwa kushal kushalbuddin

[@findit.12]

Bot

[@theybecameus]

@@findit.12 thik hai bhai haam bot hai. hame ruby se banaya gaya hai. hamari bahen ko python se banaya gaya hai. pranam. aur kala kushal murdabad

[@findit.12]

@@theybecameus 😂😂 kya kar dia Bhai ye kala kushal ne

[@theybecameus]

@@findit.12 not kushal but kushalbuddin is his real name. Zara zyada hee liberal hai. Hamare bihari sheer Shamwa ko bhi bheegi billi soy boy bana diya

[@findit.12]

@@theybecameus 😲🤨👍👍

[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

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[@theybecameus]

kala kawwa kushal kushalbuddin