The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask's dungeon design | Boss Keys

[@Fungo4]

One thing I'm disappointed you didn't mention was how the dungeons all take the three day time limit into account. If you run out of time halfway through the dungeon, then all the puzzles will reset. However, if you've gotten the arrows from the temple, you'll be given tons of shortcuts past puzzles and rooms so you can get back to where you were really quick. You're never actually tasked with finishing the whole temple in one run. Every dungeon, heck, the entire GAME, is built around this mechanic that once you solve a big set of puzzles and find the next item, the next mask, the next song, then once you reset time you can get right back where you left off with very little effort. The stray fairies on the other hand are like a "challenge mode". Beat the WHOLE dungeon, every puzzle and secret, all in one run before time runs out.

[@Blahblahblah-s9x]

Actually, you can get to twinmold before even beating odolwa because you don't have to be the boss to go to the next section of the game. I'm currently trying to do a run based on this.

[@Thierce]

@@Blahblahblah-s9x Same as in OoT adult dungeons where the game didn't require that you beat the boss, just that you get the dungeon item. A feature that was sadly cut in the following Zelda games

[@Fungo4]

@@Blahblahblah-s9x Oh, I actually did the same in MM 3D! I beat the dungeons in reverse order, and it's pretty fun.

[@lpfan4491]

yeah,because you will be going into shadowte,ple without doing fire,water and forest.

[@LordMalice6d9]

@@Blahblahblah-s9x Both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are very open ended and non-linear to a degree. However, in Ocarina of Time you have to beat Forest, Fire and Water Temples first before you can even do Shadow or Spirit Temples, because the Kakariko cutscene doesn't happen unless 1st 3 temples are beaten.

[@tonioTHEpowerful]

> Devs had only one year to create a new game > Game features time mechanic, always impending doom > Game has seriously dark overtones comparatively to other Zelda games I've never connected these dots before, mainly because I wasn't aware MM was made under such a time restriction. Coincidence?

[@CornishCreamtea07]

It wasn't uncommon for games to be made in only a year back then, they were nowhere near as complex as they are today. And most of the dev time would been just been reassembling code and models from ooT using OoTs level editor to make new areas. Even the four main masks use the coding from the weapons for their moves.

[@Supermario0727]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this. I find it funny how the premise of the game revolves around racing against the clock-the idea of needing more time-which completely reflects, in my mind, the experience the developers had making it. It's almost as if their frustration subconsciously manifested itself into the game's plot. Strange, isn't it?

[@QuikVidGuy]

@@CornishCreamtea07 didn't OoT take 4 years or something?

[@CornishCreamtea07]

@@QuikVidGuyMost likely yes, but that was the first 3D Zelda title, there was lots of different builds before they got it right. I also heard that it was supposed to be on the 64DD originally, so that switch would have cost development time. It probably it took 2 years to make the actual game.

[@defunctchannel942]

@@QuikVidGuy no. closer to 2 years but 3 at most if you consider preprod. the same team made Mario 64 and Yoshi's Island before merging back together to make Ocarina. 1 year would be short for a zelda game, but still a pretty normal time for a sequel to be made for any other game by any other studio in the late 90s.

[@jakeoti8668]

Big Majora's Mask fan, will note a few things about the dungeons (and the game in general) that I also find interesting: 1) While the Day Cycle, with its whole go-back-in-time-lose-all-your-progress system, can be frustrating, there's some cool design to the game that bases itself around it. In the case of the dungeons, most of the rooms that you complete in the first half (the part before you get the dungeon's featured arrows) are unnecessary to visit if you have the item. Thus, if you go into Woodfall and get the Bow but are almost out of time, you can skip most of what you already did, since you can shoot the eyeball in the east room to raise the flower platform right off the bat. Or, for Stone Tower Temple, you can get the Light Arrows, go back in time, and then immediately begin your next try with flipping the dungeon. The Fairies, as a result, are a challenge/reward for beating the dungeon in one day cycle, since the early rooms often do hide the little fellows. The game has similar checkpoint setups, such as the transformation Masks, hitting Owl Statues, and getting the songs that open the dungeons. 2) Exploring and understanding everything else about the game can really make the dungeons a breeze. Getting Chateau Romani, for example, and thus being able to use infinite magic can make ice platforming or tower flipping a lot easier. Possibly the best is the Stone Mask, which turns one room in Stone Tower from the most annoying thing imaginable to a simple breeze. (You know the one...but, if you don't, it's one where you need to reflect light onto a mirror to charge it up, then reflect the light from that mirror to another mirror, then the light from that mirror onto a block...and all the while enemies are attacking you). There is a case where the game almost fights against you, though. Namely, the Bunny Hood. That mask is incredibly fun and helpful, letting Link just run around wherever...but platforming sections (such as the valves in the second room of Great Bay) are designed around normal speed Link, meaning that Bunny Link will often jump over where you want to go. 3) There's a strong sense of intimidation in the temples. I remember when my brother played it, he had to quit as soon as he walked into the first gear room of Great Bay Temple. There's at least one room in each temple that just makes you stop and think "Okay, how the heck am I going to figure this out?" The poison center room in Woodfall. The tallest room ever in Snowhead. The gears in Great Bay. The first room in Stone Tower. It's all designed to make you feel overwhelmed, which makes it all the better when you deconstruct and solve them.

[@GMTK]

+Jake oti Thanks Jake, that's a really good comment. I like the third note especially: the dungeons are designed to feel more complicated than they really are, with all the moving parts and intimidating architecture.

[@Mer.Saloon]

As a pre-teen, I would always make theories about the architecture of the dungeons of Majora, and I think this comment explained it well why. More than anything, these dungeons felt alive. They felt like places that people once walked in and had a purpose. They didn't feel like just a bunch of puzzles strung together by doors and keys but like living parts of Termina. They are the puzzle itself and when finishing the dungeon it really feels like you were an explorer pouring into deep places of the world to find their secrets. I never knew how else to really put it into words before.

[@spyroschristoulakis6296]

Late comment here but I wanna say that even as a kid, I never thought that doing the dungeons in one go was particularly difficult, because of the song checkpoint you mentioned. You can always just save the game right after you get the song to open each temple, along with the owl statue, play the inverted song of time (I figured that out as a kid too so I think there's absolutely no excuse for anyone to miss it) and then do the dungeon. The difficulty is adjustable in that way. You can try to do everything in one go, or play it safe and easy. That's the brilliance of this game.

[@alyastastic]

@@spyroschristoulakis6296 Not everyone will figure out the inverted song of time, but if you explore enough, even during your first cycle, you're bound to find the scarecrow that tells you about it. It's hard to miss it. That said, it's perfectly possible to go slow and still get half the dungeon done in one cycle, so you reset and can start right where you left off.

[@EnvyOmicron]

In regards to Mark's comment about the Stray Fairies feeling like red herrings, I actually noticed on my most recent playthrough of the game that they do visually differentiate the chests that you need to open in order to finish the dungeon from the optional ones containing the fairies, and they did it by making the mandatory chests have a gold trim. So if you're only interested in finishing the dungeon, you can safely ignore all the chests that lack the trim, and are just made of wood. It's a subtle detail for sure, but once you pick up on it, it can be pretty useful.

[@chaosprime1629]

they also add to the dungeon recontextualization. snowhead temple feels more complete when you get them and there is one that requires backtracking to the critical path unless you have the hookshot already.

[@ThunderRazorYT]

Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda. I like the dungeons, but I really love Clock Town. Getting to know the people, their schedules, and their needs was such a joy. I really felt like the town was alive and that as I learned of the people I became apart of the town.

[@Joel2Million]

Ikr, I just want to play a sequel with a new 3 day cycle, all the items from the start but just miniquests

[@Rayhaku808]

ThunderRazor Yesssssss

[@nathaneskin3572]

Joel Mahon You can. It's called Dead Rising.

[@dakotab291]

Seriously, the side quests MADE that game, for me at least. And once I got all the masks and traded them and got the Fierce Deity Mask I was like, this is the best zelda game ever lol

[@handzar6402]

I hate that aspect of it lol, but I love the dungeons.

[@TexTalksSometimes]

I'm a bit surprised how much you seemed underwhelmed by the tools used in these dungeons, because I think the dungeons in this game make better use of tools than any other zelda game by miles. I think a lot of people miss the fact that Majora's Mask actually has MORE tools than Ocarana, in a technical sense. Every tool from Ocarana of Time is actually present in Majora, but they are consolidated in the masks that you get, which give you several tools at once in addition to something unique. For example, Goron Link is essentially a mashing together of the great hammer, the red tunic, the power bracelet, the iron boots, and then on top of all of that gets a brand new movement mechanic in the form of his roll. Yes, the only item you find in the dungeon itself is the fire arrow, but when you combine this with the fact that just prior to entering you find the goron mask AND the lens of truth, you essentially have a dungeon that requires the player to make use of around seven new tools as opposed to one. This is my favorite thing about Majora's mask, because I am getting so sick of the more recent Zelda games insistence on giving the player one new thing in every dungeon, which they will use to solve every puzzle in that dungeon and then promptly forget about in the next one in favor of whatever new thing there is. Majora's Mask does the best job out of any Zelda game of making the player feel like they are continually building up an arsenal of useful tools that they can use in many different circumstances, and to point out that all you get inside of the dungeons themselves is arrow types is doing the game a big disservice. Not to mention the problem you pointed out that people were talking about in the last video, which is how predictable bosses can be using this one tool formula. By incorporating many different mechanics inside each dungeon bosses become much more dynamic feeling, even if they actually aren't. Aside from that, thanks for being one of the only people I've seen point out that linearity =/= complexity. I am so sick of people throwing that word around as if it's some golden rule for what makes a game good or bad, and I think this video does a great job of pointing where that distinction lies.

[@samperu401]

I sure do love some Ocarana of time

[@Howitchewstofeel5gum]

That's kinda true, but that same thing of using one specific item in any given dungeon also applies to the masks, except for of course Stone Tower Temple. I.e. you are constantly using the mask you got most recently in the other three dungeons.

[@chaosprime1629]

one thing i noticed about MM's dungeons is how when you get the item, you actually revisit several rooms to use the item. also snowhead is interesting because if you know what you are doing you never have to use the fire arrows at all except to unfreeze goht. the way the dungeon uses magic arrows is also interesting because they are still useful for combat and other lock and key moments. the ice arrows have the least use but still good for combat. unfortunately the 3ds version did nerf them and added signposting. i also noticed that MM actually does a better job than OoT when the dungeon is recontextualized. woodfall is the only weak dungeon, but it is the first dungeon. stone tower temple, however, appears to have an oversight where it is not upside down but instead mirror flipped. the straightforward follow the path design does take away from the complexity however and you can have a complex linear dungeon as long as it involves going back to previous explored areas such as with the wind temple from ttw or ancient cistern from ss.

[@GameboyFanatic]

@@Howitchewstofeel5gum Take Zora Link into Snowhead and then the temple is way faster

[@Howitchewstofeel5gum]

@@GameboyFanatic Never tried that. How does that help?

[@thrillhouse_vanhouten]

You put more design work into the 3D map graphics in this than most KZbinrs put into entire videos. Also, I think this may be my favourite episode of Boss Keys so far, but I may be biased because Majora is my favourite game of all time. Anyway, great work!

[@edwnx0]

I'd say Illustrator.

[@Kram1032]

the 3d map graphics are insane. they should totally be available as some standalone interactive website or app or something.

[@Oppurtunafish]

@Edwin The water wheel is definitely a 3D model / animation

[@SekhmetMorgan]

All of this is true.

[@Gacu001]

I do too. Have to leave a comment in case Mark decides to answer this question :P

[@DragonDePlatino]

The 3D map is fantastically well-done. Looks like something out of a prime time TV show. Great job Mark!

[@MatthewCampbell765]

I think the reason why Majora's Mask is so tonally and structurally different than most 3D Zelda games is that from a technical standpoint it was already very similar to OOT. Normally, it's ok for Nintendo to recycle the same formula for the most part, since at the newer games are updated from a technical standpoint. In MM, however, there was no technical innovation-meaning that they'd have to try something new with the tone and formula in order to differentiate it from OOT. Otherwise, it basically would have been Zelda's Super Mario Galaxy 2.

[@xaphon89]

Koizumi writing and co-directing had a lot to do with it as well.

[@DrearierSpider1]

It's fucking incredible how many unique elements and mechanics got put into this game considering how little time the team had. Easily the high point of the series for me.

[@lovebattleforge]

DrearierSpider1 weird how they didnt get more time considering how well oot got recieved, guess it worked out anywyas

[@handzar6402]

A lot of it doesn't work, though. The 3-day time limit, the save system, the constant waiting around, doing nothing as a prerequisite for certain side quests, as well as the immense padding the game has. Lets be honest, Majora's Mask is saved by its dungeons and the worldbuilding/atmosphere the game has. A lot of the stuff in between dungeons is tedious at best, and garbage game design at worst.

[@handzar6402]

@Lukas von das Eis Just because it's unique, that doesn't mean it's great. I've already pointed out the problems I have with it.

[@handzar6402]

@Lukas von das Eis Really? Silent Hill 4? The game where you spend the entire second half backtracking through areas you've already explored, fighting enemies you've already faced, while simultaneously being chased? That's the example you're using? Come on. That's not the comparison I think you should make. Yes, accessibility is overrated, but good game design is not.

[@handzar6402]

@Lukas von das Eis You can see it however you want, that's not my concern. Note, however, that there hasn't really been a rejoinder to any of the original points I made. You can't convince me that those are good design decisions regardless of whether that's down to diverging opinions or not.

[@Rhino-n-Chips]

"Dupa dupa depa deh I... I don't know, it's complicated." My life in one sentence

[@intheairex]

And you thought you'd use that fancy dotted line.

[@Shadycicada]

I love this series. I can't wait to see the next one!!

[@ASolidSnack]

Excellent video. Everyone talks about Majora's Mask's atmosphere and storytelling when talking about what makes it great, but I think those elements are just icing on the cake that is the design of the dungeons and the world. The game is clearly designed to be played after Ocarina, with a higher difficulty level and more cerebral puzzles. I'm sure many longtime fans can relate to me when I say playing the last few Zelda games was often not stimulating because I'd walk into a dungeon and immediately see solutions to rooms without even trying, having been trained to see these over several games. However, even having played Majora's Mask when it came out, replaying it I still found myself stumped all the time, and forced to look at the map and think about what I needed to do next. That's a level of challenge the Zelda games simply didn't afford the player before or since (except perhaps in Link's Awakening, which was made under similar circumstances in that it was developed by a "B-Team" while the "real" follow-up to Ocarina was made. Both feature some key design by Yoshiaki Koizumi, who I see as one of gaming's absolute greatest minds). I understand that Zelda, being such a massive franchise, needs to be enjoyable for people of many skill levels, but I hope in the future we can get more "expansion" games like this, that feature greater challenge and more experimental design from younger teams.

[@MrServantRider]

These analysis videos are great, really helps me understand the "Why" behind what I already knew, which is that Zelda's dungeons are badass.

[@VideoFeverShow]

I actually am most excited to see the analysis of the DS Zelda games (Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks) since the ability to write notes directly on your map is one of the most significant changes ever applied to the Zelda dungeon formula.

[@MemphiStig]

This is such a complex, intriguing, and well-done game, I'm surprised they only had a year to make it. I just recently played it for the first time. Genuinely great game. I do like how the dungeon don't just contain puzzles, but are. It seems to have taken what Ocarina started to the next level.

[@gabrielwolfsbaine3223]

"those who try to blindly stumble around the room, will be lost for hours" *Leers at Arin.

[@RainaThrownAway]

Majora's Mask is probably my favorite Zelda game ever, and will forever be in my top ten games of all time. I feel like more games - in general and in the series - should take notice of the things that make Majora's Mask an amazing game. The time limit rubs a lot of people the wrong way - but its inclusion gives everything a sense of real urgency. And I don't just mean dungeons, though it certainly adds a certain je ne sais quoi to the dungeons that hasn't ever been repeated. Unlike in most Zelda games, where the side quests are, at best, slight diversions that let you get a new item or a power up, Majora's Mask's side quests give the characters more life, and the reward you receive at the end of the quest is often just the icing on the cake. It's a rare game that truly gives you a palpable sense of performing heroic deeds, and Majora's Mask nails it perfectly. Let's consider the pinnacle of the game's side quests: the Anju and Kafei quest. As you play through the game, you kind of bump up against elements of the quest, because it spans the entire three days, with branches appearing as you complete - or fail to complete - elements of the quest. It is probably the single most heroic quest I've ever seen in video games. The quest rewards are... somewhat useless. Two masks, both of which can be used to get heart pieces, and a few rupee chests. That's it as far as quest rewards go. It's a lot of effort to go to for such a paltry reward. But in the end, it's not about the reward. It's a back-breaking quest that sends you running back and forth, finding a missing person, unraveling the secret behind why Kafei disappeared, then helping him regain the precious item that was stolen from him so that he can face Anju in the end. It carries all the way through to the very last moments of the 3-day cycle, and the seeds are set up literally the instant you walk out of the Clock Tower on Day One. It involves more NPCs both directly and indirectly than any other side quest in the game, and requires the player to really, truly understand the various characters' schedules. It requires you, in other words, to care about the game world and the characters within. And sure, the Couple's Mask is great if you're going for 100% - but I think the real point of the quest is not just some shallow reward you get at the end. The mask doesn't even come up until you've finished the quest. It's not a hook dangling in front of Link to get him to go along with things. The whole point is to make sure that Anju's faith in Kafei pays off, and to ensure that they get the opportunity to make their vows to each other. It's a quest about love. And that's pretty great. I could gush for pages about why Majora's Mask is so good.

[@paulstaker8861]

That dupidupi stuff caught me off guard lol. Goes to show the sheer quality and professionalism that you put into your videos. Keep it up man.

[@joew1237]

Fun little bit of design I noticed on my 20th or so play through of Great Bay temple: you can actually follow the pipes to locate the values.

[@chaosprime1629]

what is interesting about great bay is that you do have some choice in which valves you push and each ascending color adds another valve giving a total of 6. i think what would have been cool with the green would be to have some floodgates where you need to know when to switch valves. still, after replaying it, this is probably the best dungeon in MM. i discovered that in snowhead you can in fact open the door to the pillar switch before getting the fire arrows, however, you need the hot spring water and the deku stick is very time tight which might require the bunny hood.

[@ChubbyTibo]

I got to say I love the teleporter at the entrance of each temples that get you right to the boss, great idea from the developpers.

[@thejokersmistress15]

What? A thoughtful and well-structured video about Zelda temple designs that doesn’t blindly bitch about puzzles they didn’t like, and actually analyzes the space and 3D design? Subscriber earned.

[@BlinkLed]

A lot of people disagree with me about this, but Great Bay Temple is my favorite dungeon in the entire series. Finally getting the water to change directions has to be one of my favorite "Ah-hah!" moments out of any dungeon, and being able to swim around like a boss as Zora Link was just absolutely satisfying.

[@pegasusboots3594]

NetWalkthroughs It’s not my favorite, but I found it enjoyable as well, and it really made me feel good about myself when I got to that Gyorg room finally. It definitely doesn’t deserve all the hate it gets.

[@talulin6128]

Not my favorite(my favorite is water temple from OoT) but one of the best dungeon surely.

[@BestLoserVS]

It also has blinking arrow lights that show you where to go at all times. I don't get how people get lost in it.

[@pixarian]

I look forward to GBT every time I play through MM. It's so well designed and interactive, that I find it a joy.

[@jahnaviprasadparimkayala6813]

You need way more subscribers

[@MrBorderlands123]

No he doesn't.

[@JasonStorey]

I LOVE CD. Most definitely. Smaller channels product content to ENTICE new followers, big channels product content FOR THEIR FANBASE, when they hit a minimum guaranteed viewcount on videos it becomes quantity over quality. Once a channel splits into 2 or more it is usually time to unsub... If you like small amazing channels check out Ryan Hollinger,needwriter1,writing on games,exurb1a,CGP Grey, Makin' stuff look good in unity, Jason Headley.The Drawfee Channel,ronaldjenkees. Also there is a point big channels change formula. Often no longer producing the kinds of content that got them there in the first place. Often random channels devolve into linestreams or lets players even if that was never their original content. Faster turn arround, less production time and effort. I mean I GET it. If I WAS a content producer I'd probably DO IT....but hey, that's just a theory.... ...I USED to Love Game theory :(

[@Apemopo]

yeah, like... a hundred!! at least!

[@JasonStorey]

+Planet Renox so, how'd it go? Find any you like?

[@MrBorderlands123]

Jason Storey No.

[@TehNoobiness]

You gotta wonder if the one-year time limit inspired the three-day time limit.

[@kasperbahrentz5598]

Dupa dupa dupa dipa dupa dipa dupa dupa done!

[@KickyFut]

For memories sake, 7:29. You're welcome!😁

[@handzar6402]

Excellent video. I wholeheartedly agree with your analysis, and it helped me clear up why I like so many of the dungeons in Majora's Mask, despite not being a huge fan of the rest of the game.

[@sariathebrave5259]

In the Snowhead dungeon I didn’t even know I was supposed to punch parts of the pillar to access new rooms. I remember one ledge I had to get to which was (almost) impossible without punching that pillar. I literally kept on trying to parkour there from a higher ledge and I eventually made it by a couple pixels.

[@nathanwood6389]

I just wanted to say that this channel has really opened my eyes to the aspects video game creation. I was such a blind consumer of games before I found it.

[@falcoperegrinus2292]

Stone Tower Temple (aka Rockvale Temple [superior name]), is the most impressive dungeon design I've experienced in ANY game. Someone was on some good molly dreaming that design up.

[@pyrotech8285]

I've literally never heard anyone call it the "Rockvale Temple" in my entire existence.

[@falcoperegrinus2292]

pyrotech8285 Because that's what it's called in the Japanese version. Unless you played the Japanese version or read katakana, you wouldn't know that.

[@pyrotech8285]

Falco Peregrinus I'm sorry that I'm not a weaboo.

[@falcoperegrinus2292]

pyrotech8285 You don't have to be to learn a foreign language or import a videogame.

[@pyrotech8285]

Falco Peregrinus You don't have to, but it's generally weebs that do.

[@RyuBlue]

I actually found that there was some freedom to MM's dungeons in the fact that you could 'cheese' your way through certain parts with items from other places in the game. For example, in Snowhead Temple I decided to leave halfway through and explore elsewhere, I ended up in Termina Bay and got the hookshot. I later came back to Snowhead and was able to use the hookshot on the torches scattered throughout different levels to get around; as a result, the first time I played, I never really knocked the ice blocks on the central pillar as Goron Link and didn't find out that you could do that until I looked it up online sometime later. A similar thing happened to me with the swamp temple as well; on my 1st playthrough I never saw the flower-shaped rotating platforms because I found alternative solutions beyond what the developers intended.

[@thesquadron7571]

An interesting thing I don’t see anyone bring up when talking about MM is that, despite appearances, you can sorta beat the game’s dungeons in any order you want. Since the different arrow types allow you to get to the different areas, you can just get halfway through a dungeon, snag it’s arrow, leave, and then make your way towards the next area and repeat the process until you reach the stone tower temple if you choose. Whilst this isn’t that useful, it adds a ton of replay value for me, as on a new play through, I might decide I want a tough challenge and make my way to the stone tower temple and beat it first without picking up extra heart containers. It also allows for attempting some areas differently, like using fire arrows in the dark areas of the forest temple, or creating ice in its water areas. TL;DR, it’s fun being able to choose which dungeon you do next, even if it’s not intended.

[@rodinclaus9380]

I can appreciate how they went about doing the dungeons in Majora's Mask and how it played into the constantly looping cycle (at least on a mechanical level; thematically it just builds on my main issue with the game of not being able to complete everything in a single sitting and not achieving a 'true ending'); once you got the song that led your way to the temple, you had an entire cycle to explore and find the best way to accomplish first the dungeon, then the sub quests like fairies. It's actually something I'd like to see be explored further in a future game, like if they did another groundhog loop (or maybe just a single dungeon trapped in that loop) that would lock or unlock portions before the inevitable looping point. I also think the focus on the bow and special arrows was a nice expansion to the original idea of having the sage medallions play a part in powering up your arrows in OOT (I'd love to see an eventual implementation of those proposed storm or shadow arrows).

[@cromanticheer]

I actually had no idea about the proposed beta OoT sage medallion - arrow type connection. That's pretty cool.

[@BombOmbBuddy]

I really appreciated the bit where you drew on the maps. It was a brief break from your straight-forward and thoughtful presentation to a little bit of more personable, flustered Mark. I enjoyed it. :)

[@GldnClaw]

Your analysis of the dungeons + Volvagia's Playthroughs that explain speedrunner tactics make for a great combo of videos to watch.

[@MiddleClasshole77]

This is the best channel I have ever seen on the subject of game design. Actually, the best resource PERIOD I have ever seen for the subject of game design. You do excellent work!

[@AtticusOry]

I go to school for programming in pursuit of becoming a 'game maker'. Code and math aren't exactly the most attractive parts of the learning , but watching your videos remind my why I feel in love with video games and deign and gives me motivation, thanks Mark!

[@BlackHei711]

Shigure Miyamoto: A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad. Majora's Mask: Hello, let me introduce myself.

[@ASOUE]

Found this channel from Cereal Time (they gave you a shoutout) and this channel is AMAZING! Can't get enough. I don't know how I never heard of you before this!

[@filipe8932]

One of the most interesting things about Majora is how it kinda toys with certain Zelda conventions. Getting most of your items by exploring the overworld and presenting the harder puzzles as optional in dungeons is almost a reversal of OoT's design. This makes Majora one of the more experimental gams in the series, alongside Link's Awakening and Link Between Worlds. Anyway, great episode, Mark!

[@paulkolbeck2531]

My favorite moment in all the videos on this channel: 7:28 "Just look at the critical path. It's like dubadubadubadubadubadubadubadubadubadubadubaDONE."

[@PatchyE]

Great analysis! I have forgotten a lot about details in earlier Zelda games, and your videos definitely refreshed my memory! Thanks Mark!

[@lorethehobbit]

ugh...the great bay temple music brings back traumatic memories. That dungeon broke me, I found it so hard. And the time limit...😭

[@NarokathCrimzonAE]

Majora's Mask was already my favorite Zelda but this video just amplified it. Thanks!

[@zenbrown7144]

Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game, and quite possibly my favorite game, so I really appreciated this video. I definitely agree that the Stray Fairies did lead me astray several times in the dungeons though. It would be good to make some chests, or perhaps even doors (for some of the entirely optional rooms)look different so I know that's it's just a Stray Fairy and not a small key. I'd love to see an entire video about the 3 day system.

[@ShadowEcto]

u just made me realize why i love nintendo and zelda agmes in particular so much

[@zeppelin695]

Fantastically made video. Really highlighted a lot of what makes Majora's Mask my favorite Zelda game and favorite game in general.

[@Henskelion]

From now on whenever I see this video, all I'll be able to think about is the AVGN screaming about how much the Great Bay Temple sucks while trying to doggy-paddle against the current.

[@leandrocrivelatti4278]

These sorts of videos are why I always look forward to your content, keep up the amazing work, man! Hope everything goes all right for the next one.

[@gameboycolor47]

I think the stray fairies are actually pretty excellent design wise and elegantly solve a long standing issues in Zelda being the notorious "I did that all for 50 rupees + my wallet is full" by adding bonus content that the player wants to seek out by having it lead to permanent upgrades (This being made even better in MM given how much it takes away on each reset). Hell the stray fairies still have even BOTW beat in terms of rewards for dungeon exploration in my opinion.

[@aidanmorgan9669]

Another excellent episode. I cannot wait for the Boss Keys on Link Between worlds; I have many fond memories on dungeons in that game. Most specifically, I loved the 3-d aspect of the Ice Dungeon, with moving between floors feeling natural.

[@NatStarlight]

Another great episode! The pillar in Snowhead definitely always throws me for a loop when I play through Majora! I'm really looking forward to the Oracles, as I just recently replayed them and they have some really intricate and complex dungeon design, and they do some surprising and interesting things with the 2D space.

[@attonbitus2831]

I'm a little disappointed that you didn't include the precursor areas in the analysis. it would have been neat to see the nuts and bolts of their design.

[@attonbitus2831]

when I say that I include the non dungeon areas like the snowy mountain and Gordon village.

[@eneekmot]

Majora's Mask, Minish Cap, and Skyward Sword all took the "overworld as a dungeon" approach to traversing the world. Overworld areas were usually broken into small regions where you had to solve a puzzle before advancing to the next region, or solving a puzzle (by pushing a log or a boulder) would unlock a shortcut for when you returned. Only Skyward Sword really took advantage of this by making the player re-visit all of those areas later so that they really got familiar with the layout and were rewarded by becoming familiar with those areas and unlocking all the shortcuts. The other two games just rewarded the player for backtracking for 100% completion.

[@NevetsTSmith]

I have an uncle named Gordon.

[@Ghorda9]

You can do the ocarina of time temples out of order, you don't need the fairy bow for the fire and water temple, you don't need the hover boots for the spirit temple and you only need the megaton hammer for the fire and spirit temples.

[@playerofrock04]

Brilliant analysis! I'm enjoying your intricate knowledge of level design and player choices!

[@kirbymaster5]

An interesting tidbit about Majora's Mask is that it's the only 3D Zelda where the dungeons have stairwells; doors that take you to a room on a different level. The 2D Zeldas do this all the time, but I'm pretty sure Woodfall temple has the sole example of it in a 3D Zelda.

[@snitchbug]

snowhead as well

[@siskavard]

This series is phenomenal. Keep up the amazing work!

[@Dionysus24779]

The Oracle games are sooo underrated, really looking foward to next episode.

[@CrimsonMoonM]

Correction: you do need to change the gravity in Stone Tower one more time to nab all the fairies. After you reach the room before the boss and make the chests in that room appear, you have to go back and change the gravity to get those chests and then change the gravity back again so you can access the boss.

[@bluecokedragon]

Love the boss Keys episodes!:D Great work again Mark

[@VideoGameAnimationStudy]

Oh man oh man, those cute temple graphics are just perf! :-)

[@Sir_Ahno]

The graphs are similar to something I have seen a professor use for novels and films to identify various formulas in those media I like seeing it applied to the Zelda games. I really enjoyed seeing the full map of Stone Tower with the fairies because those are technically an element which further the game and make the area as a whole feel non-linear; especially since they are not essential. With Majora's Mask specifically you do not even have to help everyone or even collect all the masks to beat the game, another element of choice making the full game as linear or as non linear as you want. What's more is that your interactions with NPCs in Majora's Mask upon completing various tasks changes the more you do which is fun to discover, for example the Happy Mask Salesman explains the meaning behind each mask you acquire teaching some kind of value lesson to Link with each new mask. I noticed this in your analysis of the Shadow temple, but on occasion you abandon consideration of atmosphere or necessary side questing in favor of the dungeons themselves. While this is kind of analysis is ordinarily fair access to the Shadow Temple for example is predicated on your success at the Bottom of the Well, which itself demands manipulations of past and present to drain the well in the first place. Furthermore the atmosphere of traversing further underground in such a creepy environment thoroughly distracts from the linearity of the temple.

[@freezingfire810]

you forgot to mention that the completion of a dungeon changes the overworld. Like the poison being removed from the water, and bringing spring back to Snowhead.

[@WoyablePitt]

Each videos you put out are a delight, thanks Mark :)

[@elavion]

Thanks for making this video. MM is one of my favorite games ever, but not because of the dungeons though. They are fun, sure, and you highlighted precisely what makes them fun and different from Ocarina, for example, but it's the whole game-world that makes it amazing to me. Termina is SO much more interesting than Hyrule and so full of life that I'm still waiting for another game (Zelda or not) that makes me feel like I'm in a real world with actual people who live their daily lives. I hope you can keep making great material like this.

[@Lactosefr33]

your videos make me happy

[@SomeGuyWhoPlaysGames333]

Thank you, now I love this game even more.

[@slenderMax28]

Another fantastic video. I love this series, keep up the great work!

[@TheWalkMan1234]

How do you not have way more subscribers? You are the best.

[@UmTois]

You definitely is the Vaatividya of game design. Love it.

[@UmTois]

+Mr Saturno No no, I meant his voice and high quality videos kind of remember of him.

[@MauroPerasso]

This series is just amazing... you're awesome.

[@HistoricaHungarica]

Got hyped for next video. 2 of the best (IMO) Zelda titles!

[@thegardenofeatin5965]

This game was largely about side quests, hence the record low number of dungeons. There were a lot of mini-dungeons and such, like the Pirate's fortress. I think any conclusion about this game and the franchise as a whole should take this into account, and that anyone looking at this series to compare the Zelda games apples to apples should remember that this series focuses narrowly on dungeon design.

[@RummySingh]

Not sure I enjoyed that as much as the previous(which I did enjoy very much) but I think it's maybe just because MM's design just doesn't quite mesh with the series' focus as well. The wealth of MM's content is really outside of dungeons and dungeon design, and there's mini-dungeons as mentioned which aren't delved into. Personally I think the Ikana Well would have actually have been an exceptionally interesting focus in its nature of paying the Gibdo's for passage between doors as an alternative form of keys, whilst also recognising that much of the items required for said passage are actually very somewhat available within said mini-dungeon too. There are some barriers there admittedly but in my repeated playthroughs I think I recall thinking that I could find stuff if I had paid attention whilst traversing through earlier on. Somewhat intrigued that you missed the aspect, or felt it wasn't worth the focus on a series essentially about unlocking doors in dungeons :p

[@ytsejam58]

I love the concept of this game but I have a hard time playing it myself. But I just remember the dark themes and strangeness of it fascinating me as a kid. And the image of a giant moon crashing down on a town while the hero has 3 days to save it really stuck with me, even if I didn't play it that often. I would play it, get a tiny bit further, put it down for a few months... play it some more, get a little further... it took me until my Sophomore year of college to finally complete the game! Yes... the same save fire I started in 2004 on the Game Cube.

[@Kaasen]

An important thing I would have mentioned about the dungeon design in this game is that the different forms of arrows end up serving as a sort of midway dungeon checkpoint. It can be daunting to finish a dungeon on a time limit but if you can just get as far as picking up your new arrows, you can restart the 3 day cycle and either completely bypass or speed through many puzzles from the first half of the dungeon, allowing you to catch back up to where you were very quickly. In fact, gameplay outside the dungeons is also designed so that you're picking up new inventory items and activating quick travel points at well paced intervals, allowing you to regularly save and reset the three day cycle without losing progress either. Take the Ikana Valley section for example: Garo Mask > Ikana Valley Owl Statue > Song of Storms > Gibdo Mask > Mirror Shield > Elegy of Emptiness > Stone Tower Temple Owl Statue. You could accomplish all these tasks in just one cycle if you know what you're doing, but you could also use up the full 3 day cycle just getting the Garo's Mask, then reset and move on to the next task. The game is designed to minimize lost progress and to avoid punishing the player for taking as much or as little time as they need.

[@Leolimalps]

Wow, loved the series and I'm really looking forward to your research. Awesome job! Tks man :)

[@Novite]

Really great video! I've been looking for a channel just like yours! I'm excited to dive in to the rest of your videos.

[@danieljensen2626]

Majora's mask is my favorite Zelda game, probably my favorite video game overall. On top of the drastically different tone of the game and interesting story the new movement mechanics were just great. I could roll around as a Goron or swim as a Zora all day. In fact I definitely did do that while playing. I know it's unlikely but I would really, really like to see masks like that make a reappearance in a new title. Can you imagine Goron rolling through the fields in breath of the wild?

[@theoverlord9535]

Doobie doobie doo , love it! Marvelous video Mark!

[@GenerationGamingLPs]

Aside from Wind Waker being my favorite game of all time, I am excited to see what your thoughts are on the design of it's dungeons. The integral mechanics of the game itself allow for more ideas to be explored in the dungeons. And the dungeons themselves vary tremendously. You go through the beginning of the Forsaken Fortress in the beginning of the game, admittedly with only two choices on where to go in a linear path. But in the middle of the game, you go through and finish the dungeon, this time, with much more freedom as you have so many choices on where to enter, what layer to explore, and what rooms to go in. And the Tower of the Gods has the first half being a large room to explore with your boat, and the later half being a linear romp to the top. But this video is Majora's Mask, and I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. The dungeons in this game feel different from any other entry, and feel like they experimented with small concepts presented in Ocarina of Time and expanded those concepts into puzzles and full on mechanics. And that is something that is greatly present throughout the whole of this game.

[@zerocentpictures]

Love it. Great thoughts. I like how Majora's Mask makes the most of it's medium. There are a lot of games that don't embrace the medium that they are on. It's like when mobile games sticking to putting controls on a touch screen instead of exploring other control schematics that only a mobile phone can do. Thereby also limiting their visual real estate. I absolutely loved Majora's Mask. Even though there were only 4 dungeons, there were a ton of side quests that were far more engaging than previous Zelda titles. The three day cycle could be frustrating at times though.

[@IndigoWraithe]

MM is my favorite Zelda game. It was the most immersive, to me, and had a really dark but also very real story. Like, it wasn't just about "Save the Princess, Save the Kingdom" It was about all these people's lives. Their hopes and dreams. Anju and Kafei getting married, but Kafei is missing. Romani trying to protect the cows from the aliens. Everyone trying to get the town ready for the big festival. The dungeons are awesome, and I love your analysis of them, but for me, it was all the stuff going on outside the dungeons that made MM great. I wish Nintendo would stop using OoT/ALttP as their template, and maybe start using more of the concepts from MM. Anyway, that's my fanboy rant of the day. Great video as always, Mark. Thank you so much for this series and all the work you put into being both informative and entertaining.

[@tguthrie6]

So true. Is Princess Zelda even in this game?

[@BlueTyphoon7]

I've been watching these videos now and while I do not agree with some of the things you've said in them, you have definitely done your research and are completely fair in your judgement so for that I do respect you and your opinion even in my disagreeance. I look forward to continue watching this and wanted to say you've earned a subscriber, albeit one that questions your conclusions.

[@VictorNazario]

My favorite game ever thank you for this video!

[@VirtualMarmalade]

God I love Majora's Mask so much. I think it's interesting to note that the dungeons are on a timer, especially when you consider how they work. They ask you to understand the physicality of the space and work out how to progress, and then say, "By the way, you can't just lolligag around for ages; the world's gonna end soon so pick up the pace maybe?" Also, since the currency of progression in the dungeons is knowledge moreso than keys, backtracking through dungeons if you fail and have to start over is a bit easier since you come back with a lot of valuable scouting already done. I feel like this softens the blow of a full-dungeon reset, since if this were, say, the Ice Palace in Link to the Past, sure getting sent back to the start would suck but at least you wouldn't have to do all the puzzles over again just to return to where you were. There are less keys in Majora's Mask because it's a real pain to redo all the puzzles over if you miss the time limit and get reset. You get to keep the dungeon's item, though, which allows you to skip back to about the midpoint of each dungeon as long as you at least get that far before time runs out (in other words, the dungeon item now also functions like the midpoint warp ties from Link's Awakening and Link to the Past). I hope if you read this comment that I added some (valuable?) insight to how the dungeons in Majora's Mask design around and interact with the game's major mechanic for you!

[@pashapiro3432]

Something I found interesting was how Nintendo re-used things to speed development time. They re-used the engine and models from OOT, but they also re-used a lot of things in the game too. When you're flipping the dungeon upside down, it's like you're doubling the size of the dungeon - getting twice the gameplay out of the same number of models. Also, traveling back in time with additional knowledge and items forces you to re-track through the same areas multiple times - again re-using previous models. But with those additional skills and items, each area takes on a whole new context. This is a really interesting example of how a shortened development cycle can produce a very different, but still high quality gaming experience.

[@ytsejam58]

One thing I figured out about the water temple is... Lower the water, explore all the rooms you can, raise the water, explore, raise the water, explore more... then lower the water again. This time, you have the items you have collected from the first round of exploration to help you.

[@leogh1378]

Since getting Majora's Mask 3D on launch I'm still stick swimming in circles in the Great Bay Temple...

[@travisnoles1]

1:52 Do you make the 3D dungeon maps for this series? They're quite impressive and I don't see a credit for them in the description.

[@GMTK]

+Brass Lass Yep. And thanks!

[@skydiamsteam6005]

Game Maker's Toolkit Share them

[@metumortis6323]

I really wish there were more shows like this that shows the intellectual part of video games

[@davet9820]

Keep up the great work

[@SkulkingSkullKid]

When you say 'exasperate', about 4 minutes in, I think you meant 'exacerbate' ..... But it was likely just a slip of the tongue, not a matter of ignorance. I really dig this series. Thank you!

[@Negetive2digit]

I feel the need to admire that you actually mentioned that there is, at least, another flipping gem in that room where you have to shove the block onto a switch, using the flipping to get it past parts you couldn't on the opposite side. People always seem to forget that and claim that there's 'only one gem out front and you have to trek all the way back out to flip the place'. Nintendo can be a jerk sometimes, but even they thought to put more than one red gem in the STT. Addendum: On not having to use the dungeon item on the bosses, its one of the things the remake did right, oddly enough, at least in the case of Odolwa and Goht. Odd how it seems like a different team randomly came in to work on the second half of the remake, since the changes to the first half of the game are good and welcome and the changes to the latter half leave you scratching your head until it's raw and bloody.

[@Nixitur]

Hang on a minute, Link To The Past forces you to visit dungeons in a specific order? I'm pretty sure that you have a lot of freedom in the Dark World. The enumeration from 1 to 8 is just a suggested path. Sure, some dungeons require you to have specific items from "earlier" dungeons, but linear progression is by no means necessary. I mean, you didn't explicitly _say_ so, but you raised the point about forcing a specific order at the exact moment you showed the map to Link To The Past, so it's heavily implied. Not to mention that you can always do the Zelda 1 thing of entering the dungeon, grabbing the item, leaving and then doing something else. This is by no means possible in all Zelda games.

[@PauLtus_B]

From a Link to the Past there was an order at all. You stil have freedom in the Dark World, but not before that. In Zelda 1 and 2 there wasn't really any kind of direct path. It was more like: "go do stuff".

[@monstergelo1072]

and it's not being made clear when the linearity stop

[@Nixitur]

PauLtus B Not true. In the original Legend of Zelda, you require both the Recorder and the Raft to even _get_ to some of the dungeons. Meaning that, yes, it does impose a partial order on the dungeons, exactly the same as Link To The Past. Bimawan Satrianto That's irrelevant. Fact of the matter is that it does not force a specific, linear order in which you have to visit the dungeons.

[@PauLtus_B]

Nixitur Difference is that in Zelda 1 you don't have to do 1,2,3,4. There's SOME limit yes. It's just that you'll have to a couple of things eventually before being able to do some other things.

[@Nixitur]

PauLtus B Yeah, just like in Link To The Past. As far as I know, you can do dungeon 6 before dungeon 3, you can do dungeon 7 before dungeon 5 and you can even do dungeon 2 dead last.

[@chaosprime1629]

one thing i have noticed about great bay is that the room with the octoroks and the red valves no longer needs to be visited once you change the water current. there is no stray fairy there either. the only reason you would change the current back is to have easier access to getting the boss key however that can be a waste of time.

[@losalfajoresok]

Now that I've played almost completely the game on 3DS (I'm in the final boss) this became very pleasant to see. Luckily Mark told me not to watch it because I will get spoiled. Thanks a lot Mark!

[@Marcopolo-pm8ty]

I love those videos. I agree with you, MM makes you think about the layout of the dungeons, but I've always found that the water one doesn't do it as well as the other dungeons. The goron one for example has this main room with the big column, it helps you to understand where you need to go to unlock new passages. Same for the stone one, where you can already check how the room will be when it's upside down. The fact that the valve room is not so central (you can't see it from any other room, and you can't see the effect of the changing current in other rooms) made it more difficult to understand the layout of the entire dungeon. At least that's how I remember it from when I played 2-3 years ago. Also it's the dungeon with my least favorite boss, so bad compared to Goth, favorite boss of all time :p

[@FlyinTonite]

Finding all the stray fairies in the Great Bay Temple was like swift, repeated, kicks to the nads.

[@fyighfreak]

I feel like I've been waiting forever for this. xD Thank you.