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Legend Phosphoru Playlist: • The Legend Phosphoru
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This video was created under Microsoft's "Game Content Usage Rules" using assets from Age of Empires, © Microsoft Corporation.

[@Ahmadabdal_]

i bet phosphoru had the biggest grinch smile when he read the patch notes

[@jaythejay10]

I think the devs saw Phosphoru's new strat and decided to make it easy for everyone to play.

[@joshs3499]

He created Hussite Wagons that can also ram

[@khankhomrad8855]

The True Hussite Wagon!

[@hrotha]

In WW1, there was often a tacit agreement between gunners on both sides to avoid shelling the enemy's field kitchens even if they were in artillery range. The reason was simple: if I blow up your field kitchens, you'll blow up mine and we'll both go without a warm meal. Neither side needed that extra pain, so the "live and let live" principle usually prevailed. What I'm saying is, stealing resources in the early game in AoE2 is a lot like WW1

[@sockmon1]

Well said my g

[@spoody4789]

”It’s a war game! I’ll take the boar“ -MBL

[@T90Official]

This comment is incredible.

[@nathanfranks1476]

Thank you for explaining why laming is so BM in such an eloquent manner.

[@uksalam-ew2bi]

I hate it when opponents try to finish in feudal age, like at least get to castle age and have a proper battle - what’s the point of a 10 Mins rush with a small army Of 10-12 units

[@mythology2467]

"If you strike my hussite wagons down.... I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"

[@kylemackinnon5696]

-Jan huss (probably)

[@naphackDT]

Those janissaries come driving by, jump out of their ram, start blasting and yell "wrong side of the river, fool!"

[@BlinkShark182]

More like wrong side of the Bosphoru

[@bm8985]

Honestly, a player with blue's persistence should have snuck a few vills south and built a tc down there, instead of in his base. He could have built a whole hidden farming eco to support some sort of counterattack, or at least have the food to replace the vile he lost.

[@thegreenpianist7683]

He should have tower rushed his base imo, the castle at home can only protect so much.

[@thomasfplm]

When he got a villager to the other side, I thought he wanted to make a siege workshop there or something like that to attack Red's base.

[@amosdraak3536]

He could’ve made more mangonels and micro’d better. He could’ve had more mobility at home (cavalry), could’ve used more demo ships, could have counter attacked. It feels like he was just too slow and ineffective. He could’ve tried a lot of things but just did the same thing over and over and lost

[@shreyassali2291]

i honestly think sending 2 or 3 petards to kill phosporu's market would be a play

[@T90Official]

If you watch one of my earlier phosphoru casts, in my game against him I focused down his market immediately. 😎 In future games he built it safe though, smart cookie

[@shreyassali2291]

@@T90Official yes I remember xD

[@theronerdithas2944]

DIY Hussite Wagons. They nerfed his wagons and the man just said fine I+ll do it myself.

[@CptManboobs]

The age of empires equivalent of a drive-by. Me and the boys in the Janisarry Corps rolling on up in the rams , jumping out and start blasting.

[@David-xp9vi]

Hear me out... make a montage video of that... with your own rap song!!!

[@beruzebubu6115]

Feels like medivac dropping siege mode tank back in the day 😂

[@angelsantos396]

That was sick wtf :v

[@AggroJordan86]

11 totally forgot about that!

[@ivoivic2448]

this is exactly dropship/shuttle tactic. dropping 2 reavers.

[@The-jy3yq]

​@@ivoivic2448Tankivac was _WAAAY_ more oppressive though wow, tank! so cool! *boom* Reaver "drops" were unkillable, yes, but they didn't shape the entire professional scene around them Every time there was a major TvT, you *knew* that it was a Tankivac mirror "let the best leapfrogger win!"

[@ivoivic2448]

@@The-jy3yqI was talking about SC:BW though. edit: never mind, I see what I did.

[@nathanfranks1476]

Someone else mentioned this, but i want to say it as well - I think the answer to stopping this is actually simple. just making your own Rams… jans do like 1-2 damage to rams and you would be able to make more rams them him…phosphoru Would be forced to adapt in either try to add in Light cav (Which you can’t Garrison) or militia/spearmen That would take up Garrison space

[@maxwallace9491]

Yeah exactly, rams+huscarls should have done fine here

[@historymax5479]

Yh cause janissaries autoattack the closest target, which would be rams.

[@BeautifulTurkish]

We demand phosphoru vs you pudding best of 5 sudden death!

[@TheRagingHardon]

Meme cup

[@monochino3371]

There was recently some sort of anti meta cup featuring HOANG, biry and Red P!

[@NonneinP]

​@@monochino3371Can you give me the name?

[@monochino3371]

@@NonneinP it's the anti-meta showmatch by nachoaoe (it's casted in Spanish tho)

[@Blink1826000]

Phosphoru: we have hussite wagons at home The Hussite wagons at home:

[@thomasfplm]

Exept in this case those are better than the ones from the store.

[@BaronVonScrub]

Is the counter to this perhaps to just build your own rams? Rams destroy rams, and Jannissaries do low damage to them.

[@tobiasbadstuber7495]

i was thinking the same!

[@Ginasta02]

Same here... but you need to go kind of all-in too, or he will get the numbers to snowball on you. Also need something to deal with Janis after rams are gone

[@parkerbond9400]

I feel like you have to either ignore his attack and hit him at his base or spread eco out across the map to maximize the time it takes for the rams to get everywhere, then get to imp+bbc.

[@angelsantos396]

:v sooooo we finally gonna see multi bases in normal game :v

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

Ramming the Battering Rams/converting the Siege Towers works well. You can outproduce the all-in. If siege weapons could garrison in Siege Workshops, the all-in would be hard countered by defensive 🛡 Mangonels. They would be much better at the jump in/jump out game, as Mangonels have no attack delay, but all the high damage ranged units in Castle Age do. Plus, if you trade 1 for 1 you win, as your economy is better.

[@kevlon_]

as someone who grew up more on warcraft 3 and starcraft this reminds me a lot of goblin zeppelin/dropshit micro and i'm all here for it

[@jonathanbarsness8728]

The fact that he just sits there and lets the tower/castle fire at him and never attacks them with the rams blows my mind

[@KatieGimple]

I don't actually play AoE anymore, so I'm approaching this from a purely abstract game design perspective, but to me this is clearly an issue with janissaries, and not with rams. In Age of Empires (and pretty much every RTS and MOBA out there) every attack essentially has two "cooldowns" between their attacks: one before, and one after the attack. When you click a unit to attack, their attack animation begins to play, and at the designers can tune the actual attack to happen at any point in the animation. Once the attack has been started, the unit won't be able to start another attack until the animation finishes. However, in some games once the attack actually goes off you can perform another action to interrupt the animation and so you can save the fraction of a second that the second half of the attack animation takes. In Age of Empires, for the most part military units can do exactly two things: attack, and move so it is very common to immediately move after firing with range units to minimize the time standing still. Years ago, Elite Mangudai also had the same 0 frame delay that Janissaries have, and it caused major problems because they could start moving the instant after they fired, which meant that with their speed and range they could hit and run with no chance of their target catching up to them as long as the player controlling the Mangudai had a high enough APM. The devs had to give them a brief attack delay to fix this problem. Kipchaks and Mamelukes also went through the same cycle. Janissaries have this same strength, but it's never been a major issue because they move slowly, so there are lots of units that can easily catch up to them. Garrisoning in rams however protects them during their slow reload. The two possible changes I'm aware of to nerf this interaction are these: 1. they could have the reload animation paused while ranged units are garrisoned, or 2. set the minimum frame delay for all ranged units to 5 (to match Mangudai) going forwards. I do not like solution 1, as it would make garrisoning ranged units feel janky, as when they hop out the time to fire will always be inconsistent based on how far in the animation they were when they jumped in, and it would completely remove the strategy Phosphoru used, rather than just nerfing it. Solution 2 does have the downside of watering down the identity of the Janissary, but there is precedent for this by making the same nerf to other units before. I expect this to be the change the AoE devs make, as the Phosphoru "ram-hopping" strategy would still be useful for protecting ranged units, but would have more counterplay since the units would have to spend more time outside of the rams.

[@thomasfplm]

I like the solution T90 gave at some point of adding a delay for the attack of ranged units leaving rams. It doesn't change how the unit works in other aspects, but nerfs this strategy.

[@KatieGimple]

​@@thomasfplm Yeah, it can just be a little wonky depending on exactly how it's implemented

[@thomasfplm]

@@KatieGimple, but it wouldn't require rebalancing the units.

[@ZhangJingxi]

What if opponent add rams to counter his ram? Opponent has more eco and also no need for janissaries so he should be able to afford more rams. Rams can kill rams and doesn't die to janissaries. I think huskarl and mangonels are wrong choice because they die quickly to janissaries😅

[@AntiGravityC9]

he'd probably kite the rams around with his rams, while continuously popping out to do 10-20 free damage on them but it might be too inefficient in terms of speed, and the opponent would add rams faster than they were getting destroyed anyway, while booming and upgrading more

[@ZhangJingxi]

@AntiGravityC9 he is doing this attack on very low eco I don't think he can mass rams faster than the defender.

[@meinstein9084]

Maybe build enough mangonels to be able to one shot the rams? And do this when the rams in castle range so once the rams got one shot the jennisarries have no "roof" to hide.

[@IanLittman]

Potential dev tweak for this is that reloads stop while ram garrisoned (and siege tower garrisoned). You can still instagib when un-garrisoning...once. Then you have to keep your army out of the rams for long enough to reload, which on HCs/Jans is long enough to kill folks with a castle...or scorpions. Maybe that's still too OP though, in which case "when you un-garrison you always have to reload" should be a hard enough nerf to make the Janissary strat no longer viable, rather than merely weaker.

[@Coloscopix]

From my perspective, before thinking of a nerf, we should wait to see how player adapt. Skirm / Rams or CA / Rams sound a good counter to me. I like the idea to have powerfull move like this one. More strats, more fun :)

[@LucasCunhaRocha]

you can also make unloading have a delay, so soldiers leave the ram 1 by 1 instead of all instantly jumps out.

[@WarlockAddict64]

I love how a game of historical units is evolving towards Mechanized Infantry doctrine.

[@nisenazo]

You asked: as someone who has watched other RTS games, I have always found it weird that AOE2 has an unwritten rule not to lame, where it's so common in just about every other competitive game out there. Watching the pros take resources from each other in tournaments feels so right compared to the more laidback ladder games where it never happens.

[@Mike-vn3lt]

So freaking glad you're on Twitch again T! The Hidden Cup was a thing of legend, been absolutely loving the content, even got my dad back into the game (I'm older than you, he's....a lot older 11) 😂 Anyways your work and effort is ALWAYS appreciated, keep rocking my man!! ❤

[@megamangos7408]

This also kinda feels like quick-walling, where a lot of people could be upset about how 'weird' it is. But honestly, constantly ducking in and out of cover to take pot shots sounds like a proper war game. Also: Rams working in Castle Age?? Lets fucking go!!! And most likely what will happen is that the devs will change it so that ranged units can't be in rams. As such, siege towers will dominate.

[@The-jy3yq]

*Finally some goof ducking Siege Tower use* Eat it up, Spirit of the La Hire!

[@UKinQ8Gaming]

Imagine if they did something similar with monks to remove monk Micro. That would be OP 😂

[@nenhumnome4149]

It's a matter of time

[@David-yw5fg]

Phosphoru went from gun-fireing wagons to gun-fireing rams

[@ojomaze7777]

my man really be using rams as ACPs

[@WheissRS]

could it be "do not trickle mango" a new saying? haha

[@_extrathicc]

I was not expecting to see mechanized infantry in AoE2, but here we are.

[@andrzejwilk7316]

Traumatic StarCraft I Reaver drop flashbacks.

[@ivoivic2448]

artosis probably felt a cold chill when this game was played.

[@nisenazo]

@@ivoivic2448 I can only imagine Artosis calling Phosphoru a "B Protoss" upon seeing this strat lol

[@The-jy3yq]

​@@nisenazoPhosphoru... P... * *Artosis is triggered*

[@LoreTunderin]

Can't say "castle age drive-by" was on my bingo card for today, but alas here we are.

[@taylankammer]

I guess the simplest solution would be to give units (maybe ranged ones only) a delay after getting out of rams before they're able to start fighting. Another possibility would be to add a significant cooldown between hopping in and out of rams.

[@_nishantk_]

23:50, that random villager is contemplating his life choices :))

[@BaronVonScrub]

They are just DIY Hussite Wagons that are effectively immune to conversion. :')

[@samhuffman867]

Mechanized warfare in aoe2 hahaha this is really something

[@personious_k]

😂

[@LordDarthViadro]

Age of Armored Personnel Carriers.

[@kebabsoup7617]

What if the units had to garrison and disembark in quick sequence one at the time? This would also prevent monks from popping in and out of castles, and would make garrisoning vils into castle and town centers more spicy!

[@Jz4p]

Oh man, these strats have been slaying me on Ladder.

[@Fyrefrye]

Janissaries: "So anyway, we all started blastin"

[@david_oliveira71]

Phosphoru: defend my waves of Ram-Jan 11

[@Apocalypso64]

Months before The Mountain Royals came out, I came up with my own Caucasus expansion idea, Pride of the Caucasus. In this expansion brainstorm, there was a Central Asian civ included, the Khazars. One of the bonuses involved the ability to garrison mounted units in rams and Siege Towers, with a Castle Age UT, Balanjar Wagon Fort, increasing the garrison space for both rams and Siege Towers by 5. Multiple people on both the forums and the wiki thought that the gimmick of revolving the civ around garrisoning in rams was too weak and situational. Well, GUESS WHAT? It's NOT WEAK. Not anymore!! I guess hindsight, as they say, is 20/20.

[@lollylegsgruff]

That huscarl engagement near the monastery was nuts

[@gamingpc5459]

I think hopping out should count as an attack, so they are on cooldown when they just get out

[@andrewomalley2688]

Changes to fix it: a delay of several frames for units to hop in and/or hop out of the rams. and have all units hop out in a "recently fired" state so they have to wait a full reload cycle before they can fire. that would slow the strategy down quite a bit.

[@Dragonik566]

Rams + Jans is basically ancient tanks. They just roll over everything :D

[@odin6616]

Sad to see Maximus giving up on building a Huskarl mass. They tore through the rams and had a bonus against the Janissaries. Every time he destroyed more rams than units they had nowhere to run and got mowed down. Swapping mangonels to rams would've helped even the fights after finding out they would die almost instantly.

[@DaddyMouse]

I think the real issue here was that blue nevere matched red's army numbers. It was always 5 rams to 1 mango. If red went mango push instead and had the same numerical advantage it would have been gg for blue as well. Blue should have read the situation better, stop eco production at 60 vils and use the extra res to mass up an actual army. If he had 5 mangos, they'd 1 shot red rams. Just my observations

[@flandrinelextensionniste6490]

So what is OP, janissaries in rams, or fighting with 3 times the resources invested into army? Edit: and never counter-attacking to end the stream of units.

[@Milktube]

No one claimed it was OP - the claim was that this is extremely powerful for how easy it is to perform and obtain, as well as extremely annoying to face off against. It's not healthy or fun for a game to be everyone using the same strat because it's so easy and efficient, or the counter to that strat. There are so many different units that it would be awful for 95% of them to be worthless.

[@FGC292]

Gotta love 9th century Combined Arms tactics. Eventually they are going to start using the birds to drop bombs on the enemy.

[@QuietThePro]

Instead of making it so there's a delay? Maybe make it so only infantry garrison into the rams like that? Since they are the ones designed to synergise with rams?

[@AfkaSound]

Huge props to the Dev for taking a shot on this and mixing up tech so much! this is the stuff games with this tenure need. First thing i did after seeing my first RP match was load up the game!

[@pizza-for-mountains]

I actually think Maximus could have been able to aggress the Jannisarams very early if they simply did the same thing, but instead putting Huskarls in rams. Since infantry increase ram movement speed, Phosphoru would be forced to ram battle, losing rams for the Jannisaries to hide inside. This would also protect the Huskarls and allow them to bypass their weakness against gunpowder, which is that they have to take time to run into melee range. Or maybe Phosphoru would add knights... hmmmm

[@MSCCA]

They could also add a dely to boarding the ram, maybe make units load into the ram one at a time with a small delay between each unit.

[@Pecuniarly]

Basically what T90 said... please 'reset' the reload of any unit when ungarrisoned, as if it had just attacked. It would also fix xbows hopping in and out of TCs to defend vs mangonels. Maybe only apply to military units, else villagers would take long to kill a boar after being garissoned to weaken it from the TC.

[@chavzone]

If he had waited for a bigger mangonel mass he could have held!

[@lordmetzgermeister]

Either add an attack delay after ungarrison or have a cooldown for garrison after you ungarrison. I wouldn't mind the delay and add it for every garrison because that would invalidate tower rush with repair vills hopping in and out or monks jumping across a TC to convert raiding knights.

[@StevenKR]

Famous last words, "A herd of rams? How quaint..."

[@andrewstanford4071]

his hussite wagon got nerfed so he made his own hussite wagons

[@ptbasedev]

This has my hair standing up on end

[@AragornCZ]

Man, it feels like phosphorus executing campaign against mid AI. Everyone know the feeling whipe out the last town center. ❤😂

[@Ymgarl]

It's a great quality of life feature that highlights how broken garrisoning always was

[@Ymgarl]

As I've written before a quick fix that wouldn't break garrisoning in its original intent would be to reset attack timer for units leaving garrison, and to also reduce their charge slightly (for monks). I think there's some cheese with charge units: urumis in siege towers can just drop their splash and then run away

[@The-jy3yq]

​@@Ymgarlurumis are melee -> unusable same deal with Shotels and all other melee units Now heed me well, *Kamayuk drive-by*

[@apoth90]

Solution: Garrison/Ungarrison has a shared cooldown. Not sure how big though. This would however remove the villager wormhole :( Or maybe: Garrisoned units cannot be ungarrisoned again for 20 seconds, at least in rams. That means you can prepare a trooptransport in rams and get out of battle with them again once, but then you really have to retreat and wait for the cooldown.

[@ateeqn1985]

I remember cuman Kipchaks used to have insta-fire... and when it got nerfed they stopped being used at top level.

[@alcatraz160]

I believe another rts, one that which one I don't remember handled it as, the ranged unit's *reload* timer gets paused if they're inside transports so they cannot quickscope and get into the transport again with some period of vulnerability.

[@tobiasrenlund1643]

Happy to see I love your youtube videos!

[@guyincognito1406]

Because of the uncontrolled nature of the shots I think an easy counter would have been a ram running distraction while a mangonel cleans up.

[@TemperedMedia]

Good to see more Phosphoru. Maximus was a champ fighting him off that long.

[@ondrasuchanek6467]

yeah, I spectated this game live, it was amazing :D

[@derstreber2]

Possible Nerf: When exiting a ram, attack cool down is set to maximum. Or a less nerfy nerf: Attack cool down does not decrease while garrisoned inside of a ram.

[@brads8143]

I noticed my pike men were smarter than usual

[@kras_mazov]

The game has advanced into the Age of Tanks.

[@JoycenatorGaming]

Gotta wonder about Frankish throwing axemen with this strat. Free farm upgrades and cheaper castles so you can spend less time on stone could be pretty nice

[@aa-ze5cz]

Phosph is the Doctor Evil of Age of Emps 2..... and God I love it 🤣

[@Yamez226]

As someone who uses mobile for 99% of their rec viewing, and has an active distaste for twitch's mobile interface; I greatly appreciate you putting the effort you do into the KZbin side of your content. Ty T90 ❤

[@stefanlindahl8121]

Seems like a good counter would be onagers because versus rams and janissaries it would work.

[@mrlucasftw42]

Ram chasing mangonel! The carnage!

[@sourathghosh5170]

I am imagining team game scerios with mongol drill seige ram and a strong ranged infantry unique unit like axemen with some halbs mixed in to counter cav

[@personious_k]

Yeah for KZbin adventures with T90!

[@daviddougherty5738]

This looks like prenerf hussite wagon, but with extra steps

[@NonneinP]

This reminds me of battle realms 2 actually, wacky fast rush (villager rushing, etc). Marco less, micro more, more complicated and delicate micro.

[@swimteamizzle1114]

I’m so grateful for high-level players that break the meta and try new things. It brings so much freshness and excitement to the game, and to me, it’s what Age of Empires is all about.

[@starfarertheta506]

I'm not sure who to be more impressed with here, but this was amazing :D

[@tonyc2638]

for the entire first half of this game, I was thinking the map was Cup. 11

[@lancelotdulac6076]

yeah, I could never understand all this drama around laming either: it's basically damaging your opponent's economy, and in a war game doing that is only natural; for example, you wouldn't say that attacking his lumberjacks is "unfair", would you

[@FF-pv7ht]

solution for blue wouldve been to send 1 vil forward, sneak siege workshop and build counterrams, couldve taken down reds base before his army gets back with how slow the rams are

[@heartminer5487]

this is how hussite wagon is supposed to work

[@dorfjungegeorg8709]

I'm low elo and I think this change is awesome!

[@mythology2467]

This is the type of ABSOLUTE NONSENSE that I live for

[@404-ThisUsernameIsAlreadyTaken]

Seems like giving ranged units a 1-2 second fire delay after coming out of a ram/siege tower would be a good way to fix the problem without reverting the QoL improvement.

[@jrizzelli]

already knew what was going to happen before i even clicked the video lmao

[@tamaskosa4456]

I don't think this is too strong. A few mangonels would have countered it adequately with some skirmisher or knight backup. Problem is blue never had enough army. Very fun tactic though and very creative!

[@jaschasticher8537]

This strat is like using the cheatcode for the maschine gun car

[@allaboutgames2796]

New change should be that skirms/archers doesn't auto target siege to solve this issue

[@SpinningWhale]

Blue was constantly defending and not trading blows. He tried few times but you can't win a game by just waiting for red to run out of resources, you have to attack their eco more. When he destroyed one wave there was second one already waiting. Dunno if few rams in reds base or attacking the continuous janissary line would have helped. And expanding south.

[@Fedacking]

Appreciate the yt cast

[@hisomaniso6056]

Reload time from ungarrison is needed for all combinations, like monks and tcs

[@sk8erlife73]

One thing I’m noticing about T90, anything that isn’t meta or a change, he doesn’t like. This type of behavior dates back to our prehistoric ancestors.

[@nekhumonta]

They do look more realistic than hussite wagons. Less nimble

[@HiopX]

you could implement a delay for un/loading units. So they come out one by one