The Liturgy and Social Justice

Friends, we often find two groups in the Church in tension with each other: those concerned with the liturgy and those concerned with social justice. On today’s episode of “The Word on Fire Show,” Brandon Vogt and I discuss how to bridge this great divide, and why we should have enthusiasm for both the liturgy and the Church’s social doctrine.
A listener asks, can you repeat the argument for God that persuaded you as a high schooler?
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[@prasadwijeratne.]

I am Sampath Wijeratne, Catholic Priest from Sri lanka. I usually listen to you My lord and I am inspired. I am serving the poor plantation sector people. Thank you for encouraging me to dedicate and commit more and more to my poor communities. Please pray for me and my innocent people.

[@johnkalbert2014]

Praise the Lord

[@BabyDingo]

God bless you father…

[@prasadwijeratne.]

@@BabyDingo may God bless you Dingo and your family

[@BabyDingo]

@@prasadwijeratne. please let me know if there is anyway i can support you and your ministry father.

[@davidbittner3231]

As a cradle RC Catholic who strayed from the church in my youthful exploratory years, frustrated with all the hypocrisy embedded in the "members of the Body of Christ", and all the overemphasis on political finger pointing, combined with the pedophile scandal, I threw up my hands and fell for modernity's oversimplified "liberation theology". It's been a winding road back to the Church's fold, but with a renewed vigor for the combination and appreciation for the liturgical, sacramental life and social justice. Thanks for this beautiful conversation, and for highlighting a Church hero of mine, Dorothy Day!

[@sandradigras1396]

I am a member of the Catholic women’s league in Canada . Our 3 main focuses are Faith, service and social justice. Within our organization we coordinate the 3 to make us totally committed to the full focus and integration of the Catholic Church. Thank you for speaking to this.

[@bthemedia]

Remember that Catholic Social Justice is completely different and separate from the Neo-Marxist Ideology of “Social Justice”… which seeks to subvert the “good” and “truth” in our world.

[@anabegins7349]

Forgive me since I am Spanish and I may not understand all the elements associated to Social Justice, but I have always heard and call the Church social work "social work". To me Social Justice is a Marxist reivindication and that of a South American Christian Church sect that intented to associate Jesus with a vanguard of the Socialist (Marxist) revolutions. So, when I hear about Social Justice in the Church, it puts me on guard. I know how much pain socialist and communist revolutions are causing in South America and how that sect tries to distort the message by making of Christ a revolutionary seeking social justice and fighting against inequity and so on. I just needed to say it, since people from different countries will watch this. Thank you.

[@killianmiller6107]

I can understand this. In high school I found myself leaning more right politically, which came with a dislike for the very phrase “social justice” due to its immediate connection to leftist politics. When I first visited my current college church and saw pamphlets with “social justice” on it I thought the parish would be considerably left leaning. However it’s turned out to be fairly reverent. Eventually I learned about the Church’s orthodox social teaching, as opposed to the unorthodox distortion of social justice peddled by Marxists.

[@flavioaquino5556]

For me Social Justice has to do with left-wing movement. More ideology than religion. I did not know a Bishop would address that. Hails from Brazil.

[@BSHoop96]

I agree the term has been hijacked. Unfortunately, I think there are many Catholics who agree with the modern version of the term and don’t realize the dangers as do our friends from other countries.

[@jesmary11]

“All kneeling together all looking at the mystical body “ How beautiful it is … Teach us Lord to consider and include every one no matter they are rich or poor … educated or uneducated… Thank you Lord 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

[@marypinakat8594]

Lovely and most awesome⭐🙏

[@wendyfield7708]

The mystical Body of Christ is all the faithful. See St.Paul.

[@danpdalmonte1092]

You just melt the divisions between the left and right with your clarity, Bishop.

[@nicksterwixter]

What an incredibly relevant topic for our Church today--EXCELLENT idea for a discussion!

[@michaelfrank2266]

"Practice both." Amen Bishop. I know you are aware. All your arguments tying liturgy and action together works for me. I am already on the team. Outside the church doors is a world openly hostile to God and enthusiastically hostile to Roman Catholics. You well know pie in the sky arguments have no purchase with them. They don't play intellectual chess. Down here in the trenches the best I got is lead by example.

[@ma.elenabobadilla6652]

We are all equal in the eyes of God. Liturgy and social justice are like husbands and wives.They can't be separated to thrive.

[@bettyglaz3584]

As a cradle Catholic who attended 12 years of Catholic schools prior to Vatican II, I appreciate the explanations of Bishop Barron. I think though that the Church is starting to veer too far to the left. Saint Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI kept the Church on the right track. The Liturgy of the Mass is poetic with its words. Reception of the Holy Eucharist is a main purpose of my life. Eucharistic Adoration and prayer are extremely important. I pray daily for the homeless but am unable to help them anymore due to medical issues,

[@Montfortracing]

Are you able to at least encourage those around you to help the poor?

[@bettyglaz3584]

@@Montfortracing yes, I do.

[@williamgamble3379]

I was struck while listening to a social justice enthusiast that we must temper our expectations for success with the example of Christ, "if the world hates me it will also hate you." Be on guard when things go too easy, and too many "important" people pat you on the back. It may be time to start praying the litany of Humility lest the Father prune you severely.

[@Teamfra]

Amen, amen, and again amen! Now we’re cookin’ 🙌🏻👏🏻🙏🏻💫thanks for taking the time to spell this all out again!

[@petergreen8477]

When I was training to be a priest, all of the ordinands in the College were always liturgically placed in emphatically lay roles - quite rightly, of course. But I always got a subliminal message from this: “If you think that participating in the Mass as a layman somehow means that you are ontologically subordinate to those fulfilling sacerdotal roles, you will almost certainly emanate that impression after you are ordained. If you do not realise the inherent dignity and importance of all the baptised - ordained or not - you are missing the point.” Nobody ever said those words as such but it seemed to be a very clear message and it has stuck with me ever since.

[@andresteves4979]

Let the Holy Spirit guide you to your mission... thank you Word on Fire...

[@RevolutionDrummer47]

You nailed it! Amazing job. This inspires me to play even more metal. My legs are tired just watching.

[@marypinakat8594]

Come Holy Spirit, come fill our hearts Teach us to pray, let us worship Thee; Spirit of Jesus, come and heal our lives Teach us to love, help us build Community.

[@sara505sings]

The term social justice drives me crazy. It implies that there are different kinds of justices. Justice is justice is justice. The term is also connected with various divisive political movements.

[@michaelhardin4144]

YES! I so agree with you. Such a succinct comment. I preach this to everyone I can...As I heard from a SJW at St. Anthony Church Sacramento...speaking from the pulpit: You're all racist...come and learn how you are all inherently racists."

[@sara505sings]

@@michaelhardin4144 thank you. Sorry to see our dear Bishop Barron joining up with this language. It has become so commonplace.

[@michaelhardin4144]

@@sara505sings Bishop B is a terrific theologian. I didn't get much out of this episode. He was in the weeds talking about all these great theologians and connecting their philosophies with Social Justice. Such a term of divisiveness. Will Catholic Charities change its name to Catholics Fo Social Justice? I was hoping he was going to discuss your points.....didn't touch it. Talked about it initially...glossed over it.

[@sara505sings]

@@michaelhardin4144 Agreed. Bishop Barron is one of, if not my favorite, theologians. Just brilliant. Very disappointing to see him follow the crowd on this one.

[@mymountrushmore6235]

This is troubling to c the church pick up secularist talking points…just nonsense. There is no “social” justice. We have justice…period.

[@eleanorbertuch135]

Peace joy love. Great visit ❣️informative and much to ponder. Thank you to both of you💕

[@nicksibly526]

I suppose, people in the Church need to be hyper aware of tensions that could lead to division and accusation. Any language that leads to either needs to be tempered.

[@susanparker767]

Thank you Bishop Barron ✨🙏🏼✨

[@Deathbytroll]

It's not just a danger that these social justice movements become lax in the liturgy it's that they eject the moral teachings and the worship of God in favor of secular social movements. I don't know a single traditionalist that says we should do less for the poor but I know plenty of social justice Catholics that say we shouldn't teach moral teachings anymore

[@JH_Phillips]

Good bless you Bishop Barron and Word On Fire. I’m going to pick up that Peter Kreeft box set!!

[@geneticsmatter3834]

All justice is social. What is meant by “Social Justice” is Woke Justice. Granting groups special protections if they picket hard enough.

[@josephtravers777]

Catholic social teaching does not promote the woke agenda. All glory and honor to God, not self.

[@mdogg094]

@@josephtravers777 the “woke agenda” is a straw man concept meant to engender rage in you. Don’t be victim to rage. Instead love all, especially the misguided and sinful, and foster in your heart a Christlike meekness towards the wayward.

[@ben-dr3wf]

"Woke" is a term to ignore any social concern and justify far right ideology.

[@77thTrombone]

@@mdogg094 hear hear. Right on target. Per Merriam Webster, a straw man is _a weak or imaginary opposition (such as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted."_ Frankly, anyone who brings up "woke" is sipping the Russian Kool Aid that Putin has been slipping into conservative social media for 10-15 years to disrupt western democracies. Such topics are "bogeymen" exaggerations that dodge serious consideration of real issues. Yes: @GeneticsMatter may call me a RINO.

[@josephtravers777]

@@mdogg094 No, it's a '60s concept that was hijacked by relativism, denying objective truth.

[@carmenhartono3410]

As a 'Catholic Housewife,' I would like to see more emphasis of the Eucharist and liturgy as family gathering at the Wedding Banquet of the Lord. I see a need to better address our relationship with God the Father and with the Blessed Mother as the Father and Mother of the Bridegroom. With that said, God's human family social need to be taken care of before we can gather around the table. Sadly, Bishop Barron doesn't even touch what to me is a so fundamental.

[@Montfortracing]

He's touched on that many, many, many, many times in other videos. That's why he's introducing Hillenbrand to us, who unfortunately many Catholics still don't know who he was.

[@carmenhartono3410]

@@Montfortracing , not sure who Hillenbrand is and what he or she have to do with the tension between liturgy and social justice. I've listened to many, many, many, many other videos and have never heard Bishop Barron emphasize the connection between the gathering of church community at liturgy and her natural connection to the social justice of that community.

[@Montfortracing]

@@carmenhartono3410 did you watch the video?! Bishop Barron was literally talking about Hillenbrand, he was the rector of Mundelein seminary during the 1930s and 40s. What I meant about Barron's previous videos he's talked about the Eucharist and how the Mass is our communion with God as Christ's communion to His Church, just like how a husband loves his wife.

[@carmenhartono3410]

@@Montfortracing yes, I watched the video 6 days ago. But I literally had forgotten about Hillenbrand. With that said, I must state that for me the Eucharist is memorable. And by Bishop's own admission, Hillenbrand is not very memorable. So perhaps you can enlighten me as to when Bishop Barron's videos on the topic are as memorable as the Eucharist or as the intimate love between a husband and wife?

[@Montfortracing]

@@carmenhartono3410 well, I'm sure the Eucharist is personally memorable for you, and I commend that. I'll counter though by saying that just because something is not memorable doesn't necessarily mean it's unimportant. If you see in our Church today there's so much division. Reinhold Hillenbrand can be a bridge that we can look to to heal that chasm. That's what Bishop Barron was trying to get at in his video. As much as the Eucharist is supposed to be the source and summit of our faith, and a source of unity, it's barely provided the unity this Church needs today. But the disunity doesn't come from the Eucharist but from individual Catholics who don't realize they're living an individualistic faith. Somehow the Eucharist is being used as a crutch to feel superior as Catholics. But there are other ways that so-called orthodox Catholics live their faith but it's still to atomized. I think Hillenbrand can help us regain the truth about the Eucharist's source of unity, since he just lived last century.

[@arielwertlen6709]

I was quite surprised to see that I recognise the church in the Thumbnail. That is the Franciscan Church of the Annunciation in Bratislava. It is the oldest still active church in the city. First build in the 13th century. It is absolutely beautiful inside. It was also the first location that the recently crowned Hungarian monarch would visit in the coronation process, it is here that the Hungarian nobility would swear their fealty to the new monarch, and new knights would be dubbed.

[@typingcat1814]

Hi Bishop Barron, thank you for this! When you say that both groups need to be involved in discussions about liturgy and social justice, what should a parish do when one of those groups makes demands of the other that aren't in accord with the principles of that sphere? I am envisioning now the social justice folks asking that the liturgy have this that and the other silly thing as a public token of how we care about underrepresented populations. I'm not saying that a parish shouldn't have liturgies that are culturally in touch with the communities it serves. But the liturgy shouldn't be coopted to send political messages or to stroke our egos about how caring or tolerant we are.

[@ashleynovels]

Awesome discussion I loved hearing the backstory. But now I want to send in a question asking what the Bishop’s exact concern is with cassocks 😉

[@everetunknown5890]

Fascinating. Deacons should be able to administer the sacrament of holy communion just like priests and bishops, right?

[@bthemedia]

29:30 Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. The law (or way) we Pray (liturgy), is what we Believe, and how we Live!

[@theicnot]

What is the "Social Justice"? What Society? Whose Society? What Justice? Who defines it? You? Me? Them/They? Your Highness? What are we talking about here? Cynics would say: "Sell your gold, feed the poor". Is that part of the game? Or, the end game?

[@ritabiro5105]

Benedica il Signore.Thank for all your teaching you should come to Budapest in end of april together with Papst Francesco and take eucharist in communion for Jezus with your wishes of course exclusive for peace health and justice all over

[@yourstateofsoul]

Bishop Robert, up until a few days ago I hadn't heard of you. But this video popped up in my recommendations feed and I thought it would be good for me to listen. Although at first I was highly reluctant. I mean, my experience with the Catholic Church is that its leaders reject the thrust of wokeness. I read the words "social justice" and I truly afraid of learning that the Church was actually as woke as could be. But therein lay the rub, yes? Because words like "woke" and "social justice" have come to mean entirely different things for different people - both groups and individuals. I read "social Justice" and I think of "social justice warriors" - a phrase you use once here - and it got me to thinking that I suppose the warriors aspect is employed only by political conservatives wanting only to sneer. Myself, I cringe when I hear the term because I see its practitioners wanting very little in the way of justice, only retribution. These are really social retribution warriors, that's what I call them. And then I think that maybe social justice is a Church term. Maybe neither the political left nor the right can lay claim to debuting this term. To me, there is only justice, and it is good and noble and I want to be its deliverer. There should be no reason to reduce an ideal to one dimension. And thus we have the inherent problems with words like woke and social justice and left and right and a host of others. I am absolutely one who acts in many dimensions at once. I reject reducing anything to its utility in one one dimension, to benefit only one cause or one group of people. I live my convictions and my conviction is Christ. At least I hope I do, because we all sin and fall short and we all are tempted by a perhaps overinflated view of what we do. I hope I have expressed myself well here. Sometimes I get carried away by my passion and by the many ideas bouncing about in my brain. I would like to dialogue with you, Robert. In any regard, thank you for allowing me this forum to express myself. May the peace of Christ be yours. Be everyone's.

[@bukurie6861]

Thank you✝️

[@kenblachly1602]

Wonderful

[@mageetu]

Have you ever thought about engaging Matthew Fox? I feel he is worth speaking with!

[@jrorganbuilding]

What we need is the greatest possible contrast between transcendence and earthiness. The more that we experience heavenly transcendence in the liturgy, the more we can perceive the wrongs of the earthy temporal world. We cannot afford pedestrian liturgies that exhibit earthy trite music, bland ugly buildings, and the texts, prayers and dialogue of the Mass being recited.

[@danserrano100]

Brilliant Faith in actions.

[@maytt675]

The use of a modifier with the word "justice," typically becomes something other than justice. Too often, in our infiltrated church, "social" justice is a thin veneer on repackaged Marxism. Too many Catholics I have met will vote for pro-abortion candidates because they want "social justice." The emotional appeal blinds them to the big picture and their rationalization eclipses Church teaching. Either something is just, or it isn't, period.

[@LiesandPolitics]

Very myopic point of view you have there. I’m sure you haven’t realized there are just as many conservatives voting for pro-fascist candidates just because they voice anti abortion candidates. The Republican Party is guilty just as equally if not more so of promoting policies antithetical to church doctrine.

[@maytt675]

@@LiesandPolitics I'm not a Republican. Besides, such labels are pretty meaningless in the false dichotomy of binary American politics. Most officials are UniParty, and most elections mere theatre. Without the right to life, your other rights are irrelevant. Pax.

[@jesusloveyou3976]

How can I know Jesus is God? What distinguishes God from man? And how can I know a random man claiming to be God isn’t God and doesnt have a human and divine nature like we say Jesus does? Is every man potentially God? These are questions I was asked recently and I would like input please

[@jble2821]

Good evening Bishop. greeting from VietNam. Honestly, Follower of this channel the word on fire, and I am a Carmelite friar student. I heard your introduction about the Word on Fire Institute, but I am not able to do it because of the matter of...that is why???

[@brianmelville520]

I think I am a Barronite. 😁

[@jeffrendell]

Interesting stories and corporate culture.

[@reginaclaire4680]

if youre flippant anout the Eucharist and Liturgy your helping the poor is nothing more than social work.

[@CatholicChristian51]

The Bible made me Catholic

[@MrColinwith1L]

If only the social justice people were not usually the people in charge of liturgy too. Or rather, in charge of nonsense-in-lieu-of-liturgy. Then we might be able to approach the typical parish priests and staff and say "hey, can we follow the GIRM" and they would say "of course," instead of gaslighting and sidestepping.

[@davidmueller1058]

Yes, Dorothy Day managed to put it all together in her life.

[@Montfortracing]

Shouldn't we all?

[@nathanngumi8467]

Word.

[@josephclark1431]

One of the most crushing critiques of the Novus Ordo was from Dietrich Von Hildebrand, 13:15. I wonder if Bishop Barron would classify him as right wing. Say your Rosary for Church y'all.

[@jonathandnicholson]

No such thing as left/right-wing in the Church. Conformity to God: yes/no. Bishop Barron states this clearly in the video. Left/right-wing comes from the French Revolution, not God.

[@josephclark1431]

@@jonathandnicholson I agree. But if you listen 5 seconds more, Barron uses that I'll fated dichotomy which is why I referred to it.

[@jonathandnicholson]

@@josephclark1431 I was making the point that the Church life is about conformity to God and Bishop Barron quotes St Thomas Aquinas about conformity to God. I do accept that Barron might have been using left/right in the lower-case sense of left being typically being associated with redistribution of wealth etc and the right being associated with order and tradition etc.

[@josephclark1431]

@@jonathandnicholson Fair enough. There is only orthodox & heterodox at the end of day. Very much agree. I just wonder what his take of Dietrich's critique of the NO would be since Barron assigns a reformer status to him. Wonder if even knows of it. Anyways, I do love the Bishop B.

[@joolz5747]

There never needs to be two different things. The Catholic Church is a Christian church and Christians can do both things simultaneously and with great love. I don’t believe you have to be famous to do that. We all do that within our homes in our lives and our neighborhoods. So anything that’s not unified needs to be unified because that is then the entire whole thing. The whole thing is where it’s at. And I will venture to say that if the Catholic Church and the evangelical Christian church melded together in unity, that also would be the best whole as well. I have lived my life doing both. It’s not that hard.

[@Thestuffonmainstreet]

It's contraception fascists vs humanity. NOT liturgy and social justice.

[@chuckiepeoples]

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

[@mathiusq9128]

If you follow that on your own most basic premises you will find them hard to defend.

[@jarlaxle150]

Interesting that you assert that statement without evidence so, according to your own assertion, we can dismiss it without evidence.

[@josephtravers777]

You are here. Is this not enough?

[@chuckiepeoples]

@@jarlaxle150 nice try.

[@kleinwable]

Bibliography/Suggested reading on deification please?

[@jovitorata]

Amen 🙏

[@naturelover1284]

Can you talk more about the nuns please.

[@david_porthouse]

In the Catholic Church that I knew, the social club was a men-only club and there were no opportunities to meet the opposite sex. Mystified that you should talk about such a thing as Catholic social doctrine. My current views are that marriage is essential to society and is God’s plan for most people. Marriage between Christians is also a sacrament. What the average Catholic bishop believes in is anybody’s guess. Addition I found out after this posting that Cardinal Hollerich became a papal adviser the same day. We would appear to be heading in opposite directions.

[@watcherofthewest8597]

The only thing the social activist deifies is himself.

[@njejlester1603]

That's not true.

[@reginaclaire4680]

❤

[@kennybennett9973]

This is wonderful. I love the art, liturgy, and spiritual nature of the church and it inspires me as a social worker. So this is a great talk. However my complaint is it seems like about 90% you only talk about the liturgical etc and that you only give very brief lip service to social service even when on your Sunday sermons the scripture is about feeding the hungry or something like that and you always talk about the liturgical and are VERY brief about social justice issues. I ask you to alter your emphasis a bit.

[@chrispecora6223]

Welcome I think you get it Christ in trust🌬️🌹🧿🐕‍🦺

[@anneturner2759]

Hmmmm

[@claravitale4510]

My son keeps it simple live and let Live.

[@jhwwebster7273]

I tried that too. Now I am called transphobic if I refuse to say a man is a woman. Woke comes for all, even the bystanders.

[@jonathandnicholson]

If you saw someone stealing (taking that which was not given) would you say 'Live and live - my right is their wrong, I will not yuck their yum' etc? 'Thou shalt not steal' is not exactly complicated, either. Deeper than just the text, sure, but the instruction is pretty clear.

[@jonathandnicholson]

@@jhwwebster7273 Live and let live is about the same as 'you do you' which is contrary to Christian thought. Refusing to say a man is a woman (refusing to say x = y) is speaking the truth not 'live and let live' (live and let live: 'Not a decision I would make, but I might be wrong...Live and let live, you do you etc'). Of course not endorsing someone's proclaimed identity is phobic when not endorsing the proclaimed identity is phobic, but which is more important: being called transphobic by someone expressing something that is not true or speaking the truth about someone given the command not to bear false witness as well as other Bible passages (like Genesis 1:27) as well as t'science?

[@denniswoodhouse3351]

St Oscar Romero opn

[@CurrentChoices]

deification

[@dominusnox8231]

When we lost the Latin Mass we lost the unity of the Church. It was the great unifying element that allowed Catholics all over the world to pray the same prayers, share the same culture, speak the same words, and unify together in worship. Far simpler might it have been to promote and spread Latin throughout Catholic education for the laity than to fragment the Church and it’s efforts into small cultural circles.

[@oliveralexandre3607]

Dominus, I was a 12years old altar server when it happened and yes, my knowledge of the Latin responses was suddenly as much use as a cat-flap in an elephant house… Yes, I miss it all still today BUT it canNOT be described as the ‘end of the Church’… John XXIII knew exactly what he was doing and So did the 99.6% of the Cardinals who voted with him! ALL the theologians that BB mentions were with him to boot! Why? Because the Holy Spirit was there!!! Only those who were interested in themselves, not the Church, were then prepared to stir things up with Latin names that hide an ‘I know best, no-one else does’ attitude… For Christ’s sake - snap out of it brother and rejoin the Church - His Church, not yours… D.V. OliverA Say, attend, sing whatever you do…the Latin Mass - I do too - but praise the Lord, not your egotism 🤨

[@dominusnox8231]

@@oliveralexandre3607 Egotism seems an apt description of the NO, to be frank. The TLM is very theocentric. The NO attempts to make it about the congregation, and in doing so fails God and through failing God it fails the congregation. This is evidenced in plummeting mass attendance, plummeting belief in the real presence, widespread divorce, widespread contraception use, and the consolidation and closing of parishes. In the West, the community that is thriving, with services filled and children everywhere, is that of the TLM parishes. What kind of egotism does it take for NO backers to look at that reality and fail to admit “we were wrong”?

[@oliveralexandre3607]

Dominus, We are not going to agree about much, except perhaps these points: i) The TLM (whether you mean traditional or Tridentine matters not) is something that I miss deeply and so attend when the occasion arises ii) The English liturgy, following the Curia’s abolition of that which the US and UK bishops wrote, to replace it with a literal translation of the TLM, is currently shockingly bad compared to the French or Arabic, which I am happy to assist in, fii Libnane 🇱🇧! Neither ‘fails God..or the congregation’ and to argue that Mass in the language of the people is responsible for “widespread divorce, contraception, plummeting disbelief in the real Presence, closing churches et al” is to come to a conclusion that is wholly unmerited by its premises! Yes, we all said the same words but only a few of us really understood them, let alone knew them by heart - God is surely pleased to listen to any prayer 🙏 that is sincere as He understands any tongue in which it is said and as today’s gospel says, knows what you want before you ask… Before you demand Vatican II to admit “we were wrong”, I suggest you say a little prayer (in Latin) to the Holy Spirit and ask Her for a dose of humility and wisdom.

[@oliveralexandre3607]

ps And before you scream 😱, the HS is pure Spirit and gender is therefore meaningless, although her gifts, talents, whatever - comforter, teacher et al are All feminine! Besides, I am fed up with New Atheists telling me that I “worship a gay god” 😢

[@dominusnox8231]

@@oliveralexandre3607 Agree really doesn’t have anything to do with it. The metrics are what the metrics are. It is about NO pushers having the humility to admit what is painfully obvious to everyone else.

[@arthurmonahan6092]

Can you define deification as you are using it?

[@colerobbins124]

Becoming "partakers of the divine nature" 2 Peter 1:4 In other words, to be incorporated into the communion of the Trinity by grace, at least to the extent that a creature may be able to do so.

[@arthurmonahan6092]

@@colerobbins124 thank you. I was thinking it also is seeing Christ in others. In union with the sentiments expressed in Matthew and Leviticus.

[@poynt7957]

These two remind me of Bill and Ben the flowerpot men but Bill/Ben where a lot more coherent

[@gemeinschaftsgeful]

Modern Church design is often unattractive.

[@2Uahoj]

Usually agree with the Bishop, but at point 18:06 he is just plain wrong when he asserts that, "if you have all the liturgical stuff, blessed sacrament, adoration and all that without a commitment to changing and transfiguring the world, religion can become more of an abstraction." Well, sorry, but not at all. We have thousands of years of contemplative religious orders that did not spend hours before the blessed sacrament so that they could then get up, go out and "change the world." Rather the prayer itself invoked Christ to change the world. The Bishop here seems to be confusing true devotion with liturgical conservatism - even clericalism - which could not be further from the truth.

[@jonathandnicholson]

I tend to agree with the Bishop. Yes, Earth and Heaven are to be unified, but we are still to do the work ourselves (which you can do - thou shalt/thou shalt not and evangelisation etc) with the aid of God and Christ and because we love God and Christ as well as loving our neighbour(s).

[@colerobbins124]

"if you have all the liturgical stuff, blessed sacrament, adoration and all that without a commitment to changing and transfiguring the world, religion can become more of an abstraction." Notice he didn't say what kind of commitment is required. Intense prayer in a cloister for the salvation of people is a form of "commitment to changing and transfiguring the world".

[@marypinakat8594]

@2Uahoj, Our Church with millions of members is a single body. St.Theresa of Lisieux, who died at the age of 24 is the Church's 'Patroness of the Missions.' How is that? The contemplative prays for the world, everywhere, that's what they do.

[@josephtravers777]

All are not called into the monastic life. The commission by Christ to reach all people requires work. God bless 🙏

[@marypinakat8594]

@@josephtravers777 And no good work can be accomplished without the support of incessant prayers by the monastics and/or others on which will depend the success of those who work.

[@jojomcelwee1380]

❤️