The Living Computing Museum Is Shutting Down, and the Internet Archive Lost Their Court Case

SUPPORT THE CHANNEL:
Patreon: / ncommander
Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/ncom...
SOCIAL MEDIA:
Discord: / discord
Mastodon: social.restles...
Wiki: wiki.restless....
Well, a few days ago, news broke that the Living Computers Museum and Labs in Seattle is going to be shutting down. Originally funded and opened by Paul Allen, the museum has been closed since the start of the pandemic, and well, now its closing its doors for good, and all items in its collection will auctioned off or otherwise sold.
While I can hope that these items will find new homes, many are likely destined to private collections, or worse being thrown out entirely. To say this is a blow for retrocomputing enthusiasts, as well as computer history as a whole is something of an understatement.

[@SuzuranMajere]

Bob's name is "supnik", not "sputnik"

[@schmudde]

A huge loss. This was a great place to visit. Wish another MS executive would have picked it up in Allen's memory.

[@BubbaBearsFriend]

So sad. Allen's hiers don't give a damn about his passions and his legacy. They could have donated the items to another museum, but wanted to extract every penny from the estate like his millions of dollars of other assets weren't enough. 🙁

[@joshallen128]

I know right

[@ddud4966]

Well neither did Allen I guess, his desire was for this stuff to be sold off after he died, not to continue running it.

[@booboo699254]

@@ddud4966 This is the right answer. It's not up to the heirs. if indeed Paul's will states to sell off and give the $ to charity, then that must be done by the executor.

[@hrq007]

Allen's sister is a bitch and always has been. Everyone saw this coming.

[@jnharton]

@@ddud4966 It's not entirely clear to me, at least from the reporting, what his will specifies. --- Consider that Plan A might have been the museum having it on display and selling it off may have been Plan B. It's possible that not selling it was contingent on the museum remaining open, operational, etc. Also, it wasn't clear to what extent his heirs themselves have any say. Sometimes these things are handled by a names executor or law firm.

[@shadamethyst1258]

My school asks us to use internet archive links when citing websites; I can't imagine how many bachelor's and master's papers would essentially lose their sources should the internet archive go down. It's mind-boggling that there is no law to prevent losses like these, it's like these governments are willing to shoot themselves in the foot

[@jnharton]

The problem isn't the government per se, but the law. You can push for changes to existing law, but you still have to obey the law.

[@XP1-hn9tq]

@@jnharton LOL is your brain in there?

[@HUEHUEUHEPony]

@@jnharton who makes the law?

[@gaburieruR]

@@jnharton The goverment makes the law...

[@jnharton]

@@gaburieruR But government is also bound by existing law. Both changes and new law require agreement, usually preceded by discussion, and possibly compromise. It's not something that can be changed by fiat according to any one person's wishes.

[@MichaelAStanhope]

what a huge loss for the entire world. LCM was the only place on the planet that I know of that had an operational CDC 6600. I hope that someone can save the artifacts that are there.

[@udirt]

Hopefully cray cyber here in Munich can finally restart theirs.

[@light-gray]

This is a really disappointing revelation. I really hope that faithful collectors end up getting their hands on various stuff that the computing museum provides/sells because this is the kind of history that needs preservation.

[@AnonyDave]

More to the point I hope they don't go somewhere that hoards the documentation and related stuff that will be included with those systems. Especially things like that toad pdp-10, there's so little out there on it I hope everything gets archived

[@bigsmoke4568]

The only people interested in the auctioned items will most likely be other museums. So there's a good chance they'll end up in the right hands.

[@Bobbias]

And this is why sites like sci-hub, annas archive, the eye, and library genesis must be supported. IP laws have gotten out of hand and are hurting our ability to preserve history, and provide access to important information that should be freely available to everyone.

[@jonathanz.9675]

You’re exactly right. The insulin copyright monopoly is a literal crime again humanity

[@HUEHUEUHEPony]

to learn about history you need to sign this document and pay this fee, I'd rather make shit up, and tell myself the world is flat for FREE, LMAO

[@jnharton]

It's still the law, out of hand or not, and the copyright holders can still pursue you in court for violating it. Sometimes the best one can hope for is that the physical materials (or a thorough digital representation) are preserved, even if access is limited.

[@rlippens4454]

Thank you for alerting us, and the world, to this crisis. Hopefully solutions can be found to permit preservation of these critical archives for future generations. Once these are lost, they are gone and this is truly a major loss for everyone.

[@adamsfusion]

My reps straight up told me that preservation efforts and libraries just aren't important and "take away from the hard work of people who create things in them". That's been the lean that the US has been taking, and I'm not sure how much outreach will change that. My letter just can't compete with the companies that are funding my rep's campaign.

[@TheErador]

Ah publishers. They do love to take every pound of flesh. Hope the IA wins its appeal.

[@Novastar.SaberCombat]

You cannot win against the wealthy, powerful, and influential. Never. Not unless *you* are even richer, more powerful, and more popular. 90% of folks aren't, and thus... they lose. 💪😎✌️

[@philpots48]

I had a ton of sales M/A/I Basic Four mini computer literature from the 80s on hardware with detailed specs. I donated it to the Rhode Island Computer Museum, they made good use of it. I was happy to find it a home.

[@sdsdsdssdsdxdd]

Let's see Paul Allen's vintage computer

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

Came looking for this comment lmfao

[@the-lettere]

Impressive. Very nice

[@jd-py5nm]

was literally planning a trip to visit with the kids (we live in idaho so its not just a quick trip) how sad

[@kreuner11]

Well in person it closed in 2020 as far as I'm aware

[@jd-py5nm]

@@kreuner11 ah its been a bit what a shame well off to CHM I guess

[@xtrapol8er]

What a damn shame. I hope at least some of these computers are sent to good collectors, and at the very least the documentation is archived. I hope the IA wins their appeal too, many of those books are likely irreplaceable.

[@haztec.]

Let's see Paul Allen's computer museum

[@bingus5488]

Sad news but I came to the comments looking for this 😂

[@loganiushere]

I decided not to donate through KZbin, cause I'm not sure I trust them, but I just donated $25 to the Internet Archive. I don't want to see this amazing institution fall to endless legal challenges.

[@grant-is]

You don't hope for a better tomorrow! You make it. You bust ass and it's incredible to watch your journey and learn from you. I believe!

[@MuhammadIlhamuodd254512]

Life is freaking sucks Internet archive to be lost in preservation #SaveInternetArchive

[@AiOinc1]

I firmly believe that copyright law should be void the moment something mentioned specifically within is no longer available for public purchase. If you have copyright on a game and you stop selling that game for any reason, it should be public domain. If you have schematics, books, movies, etc, the day they are no longer publically available, they should instantly become public domain. In the last century, copyright has gone from protecting inventors to directly preventing corporate competition and producing large numbers of patent trolls, and it's getting unbelievably annoying. One day, I'll snap, and someone's company is going to pay dearly.

[@jnharton]

Yeah, no. That's not how copyright works or has ever worked. Nobody would ever create anything under that kind of model. I would just like to return to the original 2x 20 year terms or, at most, the lifetime of the author model for published works. It was designed to benefit the originator of the work, as opposed to the current system of corporate greed. Patent law is an entirely different department and patents do expire.

[@polocatfan]

Yeah I wouldn't go as far as saying instantly. There could be legitimate reasons a game can't be sold. You should have to prove you're trying to get it resold and if you can't for a certain time, then it should be considered public domain.

[@HUEHUEUHEPony]

@@jnharton you can create free propaganda, and tell people world is flat videos for free! And since it's free, people will watch it

[@tobyzilla]

@@HUEHUEUHEPony but that isn't the same as actually playing the game

[@jayglenn837]

My wife & I met not long before the pandemic started. Being a pair of nerds, she promised to take me to the Living Computer Museum on a date sometime (she had been & I hadn't). Then the pandemic happened, they closed down, & you know the rest. Really sad I never got to go.

[@firehazard1792]

I lived in Seattle for a few years and always wanted to visit the Living Computer Museum but never made the time. I moved in 2019, and told myself it was going to be the first thing I did whenever I moved back. I am deeply sad I never went when I could.

[@polocatfan]

ooof.... red flag right there. promising something you can't deliver on isn't cool.

[@nikkiofthevalley]

​​@@polocatfanUh. It hadn't closed yet... How could they have possibly known??

[@kutter_ttl6786]

@@polocatfan Yeah. Because she knew the pandemic was going to happen and the LCM was going to close permanently 🙄

[@Damaniel3]

I'm really sad about this. I had booked a hotel room back in 2020 specifically with the goal of driving up to Seattle to see the museum - but COVID came along and ruined that (they closed the hotel the day before I was supposed to leave, and everything closed down after that), and I guess the museum never recovered. Hopefully the auctioned hardware goes to good homes.

[@ddud4966]

This was always my second favorite museum in Seattle (after Museum of Flight), mainly because all the computers were kept functional and interactive. You could easily kill an afternoon messing around with the machines. But unfortunately Allen's desire was for most his stuff to be sold off after his death.

[@NCommander]

I went to the Museum of Flight but never made it to the LCM :/

[@eDoc2020]

Isn't Connections Museum also in Seattle?

[@penrite01]

Great video again... In Australia theirs a thing called "Heritage listed" meaning a state government can fund this venture. Could "American law" work towards this favor and help?.... It's a sad thing...

[@evilborg]

No such thing here... only houses and/or districts can be listed as historical.

[@ChaoticAphrodite]

Heritage? In America? Unless it’s a bunch of losers whining that they lost 160 years ago, there’s no “heritage” here, and that “heritage” is not one any decent human would want to commemorate.

[@jnharton]

That kind of approach is rather unlikely to come about naturally. The United States of America (US, USA, America) is composed of fifty different states with their own laws. And I don't think that kind of thing really falls under the Federal governments duties, powers, etc.

[@adamsfusion]

A state potentially could, but it'd be unlikely. Preservation, heritage, and arts is usually the lowest of low priorities in federal and state governments, and are usually reserved only if it has some tangible benefit to the state.

[@penrite01]

@@jnharton Thanks mate.... But Bloody hell we have got to save this history...

[@fmphotooffice5513]

...what happens when it is deemed necessary to commoditize public knowledge. No funder? Poof! Oblivion.

[@tripplefives1402]

How else do you intend to pay for and maintain a museum? Magic?

[@XP1-hn9tq]

@@tripplefives1402 Imagine if we didn't waste billions per year on pointless things within our government, imagine if that money was put back into the community.

[@fmphotooffice5513]

@@tripplefives1402 It's worth something for everyone's benefit. One thing is valuable square footage in a downtown building for a business to carefully optimize as part of a budget. It's not a museum. It's a place of and for business. This is NOT that. This is knowledge for the advancement of society. There is an old lyric that says something like "putting grapes back in the vine". Let's not do that.

[@HUEHUEUHEPony]

spreading world is flat knowledge is free, spreading science is not, who will win?

[@tripplefives1402]

@@XP1-hn9tq So abolish taxes so the money never leaves the community in the first place?

[@nyuni]

This was a great museum, but sadly this day has been written on the wall for a while. One year while I was working for Cray (prior to the HPE acquisiton) the company donated a complete Cray 2 system to the Museum along with a ton of supporting documentation, software, etc - that project never completed and I fear for what might happen to that unit and where it will end up, along with the rest of the artifacts there. I believe that was the last remaining complete Cray 2 in the world.

[@commonraccoon2105]

Google > Sorry, you can't donate in this country or region yet. Well then.

[@dzltron]

That museum was one of the best museums I've ever been to. I really do miss it

[@Davide0033]

get usagi up to the line

[@tigerscott2966]

There should have been an open museum For computers long ago. It's such a fascinating Journey to go from the punch card computer To today's smartphones.

[@GlitchedVision]

no matter which angle you come at it from, copyright is and always will be copywrong. Sure, it "protects" the small creator from the big company, or does it...? Isn't it more likely that copyright instead props up and protects long term intellectual property investments who's value is entirely ethereal and cannot be easily defined simply because one party who happens to be in power wants to continue to profit off of something long after it should have entered public domain. Thoughts and ideas are NOT a scarse commodity to be bought and sold, but instead infinitely reproducible under even the most chaotic of conditions. Two people can come up with the exact same idea from completely different sources and the way our laws are set up, only the person who does it first matters, not the person who does it best, which is in my personal opinion, the entire problem with our current copyright system. It stifles true innovation because people are scared to get in trouble for coming up with anything that's even remotely close to the many possibilities we've already discovered. If you look at quantum physics and other unexplainable scientific phenomena, the long standing theory that every human thought or idea that could ever be conceived of has already been considered at least once throughout the course of our history may not be as much of a stretch as some might think. With this being the case, how can anyone find anything at all that's unique enough to count anymore? We're coming close to exhausting originality to a point where copyright makes about as much sense as a purple cow standing in the middle of a yellow snowstorm on a rare summer night with a blue moon. (I get this is an overexaggerated example but honestly this is how much nonsense I feel copyright actually is.)

[@rbus]

A lot of documentation and software gets scanned and digitized and put on bitsavers which is a publically accessible (and publically rsync'able for full preservation) so it's a question of what does LCM have that isn't already on Bitsavers.

[@BAgodmode]

I wonder if this where Dave Plumber got his PDP. . . He just recently got one. You used to could ask nicely for computer on their machines, was real cool.

[@emiliocespedes3685]

This got me heartbroken

[@evilborg]

wow that's just awful....... sooooo much history in computers

[@rick-sanchez]

Just wanted to let you know that I donated but not trough the fundraiser since I use paypal :) Thank you for the video.

[@ChrisJackson-js8rd]

the machines are iconic. but without documentation they're of very little actual value (IMO at least) what makes these machines significant is what they did, not the cool robins egg paintjob

[@xmlthegreat]

God that's depressing

[@DonoVideoProductions]

I am tired of this world. Profit above all else. Throw away the past, yet misrepresent it. We are a doomed species.

[@gregorymccoy6797]

Chasing every penny possible.

[@balsalmalberto8086]

You have a pleasant narrator voice.

[@jshowao]

Pathetic... I remember going to the computer museum in Albuquerque, NM where Microsoft originated. It was pretty cool and I would hate to see a place like that gutted. I freaking love emulation. Its one of the greatest things ever invented. So many video games would be dead without it. Honestly, I wish people would just create a massive repository of old stuff and just store it on servers and never publish it to the web, but access on a request basis. Then we would at least have a copy of old stuff somewhere digitally and then the legalities can get sorted.

[@henriksundt7148]

Thanks for reminding me to donate. I can't believe that billionaires like Musk et al are not contributing heavily to such an important resource.

[@gwentarinokripperinolkjdsf683]

when is the auction?

[@NCommander]

No idea, it's probably being handled by a third party liquidation company but I haven't seen any news.

[@xheralt]

Weird glitch at 1:32 the fate of the Multics systems whooshes past at 4x or better speed, no sound, hard to read as captions! Another similar glitch at 7:15

[@leodf1]

Wait a minute, are you the kid that explained the 4th dimension?

[@TheAtariSan]

Can we bid on the Keyboard alone ? 😂

[@tenminutetokyo2643]

That sucks!

[@colourist.]

Does Elon know ?