The locomotive with an identity crisis? MLW FPA-4

Note alco FA-1 length 51 and 1/2 FT long
alco FA-2 Length 53 and 1/2 FT long
MLW FPA-4 Length 54 FT long
KZbin links:
Via FPA-4 : MLWQC
www.youtube.co...
Napa Valley wine train MLW FPA-4
Ferromex fan 4081
• Chasing the Napa Valle...
Picture Credits
M DE M Alco pa DH-19
Commons.wikimedia.org user: Carlos Gonzalez Torres CC BY-SA 4.0
Nickel Plate Road 190
Commons.Wikimedia.org user: Charles Fulton CC BY 2.0
Commons.Wikimedia.org user: NOYB #! CC BY 2.0
VIA F40
Commons.wikimedia.org user: Dan CC BY-SA 2.0
Commons.Wikimedia.org user: BriYYZ CC BY-SA 2.0
Wrecked Alco pa under resto at Museum of the American Railroad:
Museum of the American Railroad
www.historictr...

[@latexborg]

Thanks for the film. I enjoyed it a lot. I model CP & CN in the era these started running. One small tip, it would help if you spoke a little slower, so one can digest the information you talk about. Anyway thanks again

[@Play_fare]

I miss the old hood units, both the FPA’s and FP9’s. I used to watch them power the passenger trains through Bayview Junction in the 1980’s, and often the FPA’s would be coupled to the LRC power units which were already starting to thin out because of their unreliability. There was nothing compared to the sight, sound and smell of FPA’s accelerating a heavy train uphill, giving it all they had to get back up to track speed. There were still a few FPB units around. The highwater mark for me was to see a perfect A-B-A lashup of FPA/B units.

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

They also built locomotive in Canada because they did not have to pay for medical insurance for the employees. General motors did the same thing closing plants in Detroit while keeping plants open in Canada.

[@trainglen22]

Not exactly true. Try high duties for locomotives.

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

@@trainglen22 the Canadians have high import duties on everything. When I worked at Sears I would wait on Canadians down for the winter and they would split up a big purchase into a purchase of less than $300 so this way they would not be hit with an import duty when they went home. Indian motorcycle company also had a plant in Canada for the exact same reason. They could ship motorcycles built in Canada to other commonwealth countries without having to pay a ridiculous import fee. All of the steam companies had their own plants in Canada for that reason as well.

[@kelvintorrence5994]

And we bail them and worthless Chrysler out when the recession came,billions 9f dollars amd they used tax money I don't care if they did sell off and the government socalled got money back,if that happen to any of us 2 bad and no help,

[@matthewq4b]

@@frankmarkovcijr5459 Not all the steam locomotive companies had plants in Canada. Only Baldwin and Alco had Canadian subsidiaries. And Canada had high duties on stuffs manufactured in the US. This ensured that Canadian industry was developed instead of just buying stuff from the States. Items from Commonwealth countries had no duties. All these duties were gradually dropped with the implementation of the various of free trade agreements.

[@douglasgreene923]

The 6700s the Montreal locomotive words FPA fours will always remain special to me I’m going on 80 years and I remember back when they were changed over in the early 60s to the current wet noodle colors of the Canadian national the 67 hunters will always remain to me as a monarch very similar to the new Havens flop nines are the FL nines in the Penske GG one I don’t have any more than that to add these are dynamic and always will remain with me thanks for the video folks take care

[@CNR5154]

Thanks for highlighting this model; it's one of my top three all-time favourites. I'm a bit surprised at the confusion about it, especially with a PA which is visually different in length and truck type. As for the "P" designation, that was also used by EMD for steam generator-equipped passenger units (F7A/FP7A, F9A/FP9A). More reasonable would be the confusion with FA-2s, but the grille in the body panel below the rad shutters is pretty obvious. Anyway, an awesome loco. So glad that they're still running in tourist ops and have been well-preserved in a few museums. Thanks again for the video!

[@paulgagne1536]

Nice video. However, CN never operated F9 or F9M locomotives. F9Ms were UP F3s upgraded to F9 specs. CN operated 43 FP9As, some which were later upgrades to Dash 2 specs and with a 645 prime mover. They were called FP9ARMs. And all FP9s were very reliable. I live in the former FPA-4 area and I tell you, old CN/VIA crews I got to know prefered way much more the GMD units to the smoky, shaky, swaying and temperamental MLWs.

[@dennisyoung4631]

“Keep the metal side down - and the *soot going UP!”*

[@Trains-With-Shane]

I always enjoy the videos about the unique modifications that MLW put on the Alco designs to suit their needs.

[@JaredBallou]

You're one of three subscriptions I have notifications for, always glad to see a new video from you in the list.

[@alcobufff]

Thanks !

[@LisbonRailProductionsandF1]

Magnificent catches of the train coming by and pass, I like it 5 stars, keep up the great work, my friend, i subscribed your channel, Greetings from Portugal to the USA.

[@Ferromexfan4081]

Thx for using my footage again! I loved the vid as always. I appreciate the explanation on the difference between the PAs and the FPAs and I’m very glad 2 PAs are coming back to excursion operations. As for the wine train’s FPAs tho, they’re unfortunately gonna be retired sometime w/in the next few years as the wine train is currently trying to get their hands on 4 brand new locomotives to replace the entire fleet.

[@daviddryden8088]

I have concocted a new drinking game. Everytime you say "and/or" I must drink. I'm currently drunk. 😂 But seriously, love the content and the wealth of information you painstakingly provide.

[@TexasRailfan21-RailfanRyan]

The Cuyahoga Valley scenic railroad in Ohio actually has two FPA4 locomotives engines 6771 and 6777. It’s noted that 6771 briefly operated on the western Maryland scenic railroad as engine 305 until 1992 when the three Alco diesels that the railroad operated were replaced by 2-8-0 steam locomotive 734 now undergoing restoration following the completion of 2-6-6-2 1309

[@trainglen22]

They also have a rare FPA2.

[@alcobufff]

Forgot to mention that one! Thanks for Watching!

[@TexasRailfan21-RailfanRyan]

@@trainglen22 wow I did not know that I kind of wish that former Burlington northern RS3 number 4056 was not scrapped

[@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb]

Irony of it , the loco consist trailing sd40s had the safety reset while the leading geep 38 didnt

[@mccoy79productions66]

Nice trrain!

[@UrMomsChauffer]

Thanks for another great video. You always have detailed information. I appreciate the time you take to research these topics and make these videos. I've learned a lot from your channel.

[@Kanikalion]

Great work. Love these videos from you and similar creators who cover these older technologies and machines in depth

[@michaelgallagher2663]

Thank You For Clearing This Up. I’m The Guy Who Mistook The The MLW For An Alco PANAt Grand Canyon RR.

[@alcobufff]

No problem! Thanks for watching.

[@spitfirenutspitfirenut4835]

CN alcos with the red front looks amazing

[@RedSkeletonGames]

great video! you gained a new sub

[@alcobufff]

Thanks!

[@Shaken_AND_Stirred]

This is a great video. One thing that I have never understood, even though I have tried to research it, is how did ALCO go out of business in the U.S. around 1968 or so if I recall correctly and then start up again in Canada as the “MLW” company? I know that ALCO just ended up not being able to compete with EMD and GE in the U.S. which drove them to shut down, or bankruptcy, but how do you start back up building basically the same locomotives just north of the border under “MLW”? Thanks again and cheers from Tomball, Texas.

[@DavidSmith-dm8ew]

I have a proto 2000 Via fa-1 and similar via passenger cars

[@trainglen22]

They used 251 engines instead of the unreliable 244. Also EMD offered the FP9(which CN had) but were more expensive than the FPA4. FPA4 really makes sense and umm no the FP9's were not unreliable.

[@alcobufff]

At 6:10 I note that the FPA-4's had the 251's. I think you're confusing the part of the video were i discuss the FPA-2's, which had the 244's. Thanks For watching!

[@trainglen22]

@@alcobufff yeah, I might have missed it

[@craigryan3069]

Napa Valley are about to scrap all their Alcos & MLWs 😥

[@dariocs69]

This locomotive looks like a DL500 with six axes. The external aspect of the frame is quite similar to that one and its successors (like the spanish RENFE ALCo 1600 and 1800 series)

[@voidjavelin23]

this is literlly before DL500

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

The Santa Fe allegedly retired the ALCO PA from passenger service because of sparking problems that could cause fires along the right away but the Delaware and Hudson bought them and they had no problems with them at all. You continually harp on about so-called problems with the 244 engine never minding that many locomotive with a two-for-four engine served for 20 years or longer on main line service and then another 10-15 years in Short line service.

[@tootallslim4085]

The 244 was hot garbage.

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

@@tootallslim4085 oh please you don't know what you're talkin about. My uncle's work for the Long Island railroad and one of my uncles was the chief purchasing agent for the Long Island railroad. They weren't all alco powered rail road except for a couple of Fairbanks Morse locomotives and they got years and years of service out of there 244 engine locomotive.

[@cris_261]

​@Frank Markovci Jr L&N had a large fleet of RS3s that were well-liked by their employees, and lasted into the 70s.

[@tootallslim4085]

I have no doubt in my mind that certain determined railroads got many years of service from the 244, but that doesn’t negate the issues with the engine. The 244 for doomed from the start. There was no testing or quality control involved in the production of the 244. Had ALCO slowed their roll just a little bit, instead of rushing production out the door, they may have produced an amazing engine. Instead, they rushed out an extremely unreliable engine that ate through tons of resources to keep running. Sure with the right amount of money and time thrown at them after delivery you could keep them going. But what was the cost? They were money pits for any railroad that purchased them.

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

@@tootallslim4085 see people like you have never had any real experience with any locomotive with that engine. My uncle was an executive with the Long Island railroad and we would bump cars on the weekends. We would have all the cars lined up for Monday morning until the union complaint that we were taking work away from the brotherhood. Long Island rail road 244 lasted over 20 years but you have to maintain them properly and I mean change the oil in them keep the reservoir for the air starter full films like that you have to adjust the valves periodically if you are used to an EMT all you do is put fuel and oil in it. Like a motorcycle if you're used to a two-stroke motorcycle and you have a 4-stroke motorcycle with a cam chain and files to adjust it's more work but it saves you money on gas but that was not a concern when diesel fuel was $0.06 a gallon. Let's not forget that engine provided the basis for the national Indian railways as well as the Russian federation railways as well. Now any Sparks would be extinguished by the turbo charger as the exhaust gases spin the turbo.they'd simply did not want to renew the lease because of they would have to pay for the engine with a used it or not for the next 20 years. That is why on the old steam locomotives they had trustee on the locomotive. Fairbanks-morse opposed-piston twin-cylinder opposed Diesel's we're a very complicated engine was put out almost twice as much horsepower as an EMD. But when they went down from heat-related issues you had to replace them with two locomotives. Don't make it sound like you had to totally redo the engine because if you did not misuse it and abused it. Lots of engineers like to sabotage the new diesel locomotives so they can get a steam engine and they would get more money cuz they were paid for weight on drivers. 1 eyrie crew hooked up 108 cars to an alco rs22 see how many cars it would take to burn off the traction motors. That was the kind of abuse that they would take. Now let's not forget EMD started with a Winton distleate engine but as it was a stationary engine there were too many compromises for a locomotive fuse is why they designed the 567. Instead of pushing the 244 to unreasonable horsepower limit they designed the 251. When EMD push the 567 engine to 710 cubic inches it began to fail regularly. Some 16-cylinder alco 244 crankshaft would break from being too long at people with pitch about alco quality but when EMD had the same problem with the SD 45 and a 20 cylinder locomotive no one said crap except to mention it slightly. Just because you have a Ford and I have a Chevy does not mean that we have to badmouth each other'automobiles.

[@wardy98px1]

I miss those f units and wide nose units

[@burleyscott2910]

This locomotive is confusing. It has the body style like the FA-2, but the operational design of the PA series. By looking at the trucks and the 4-axles, most would mistake this as the FA-2. What makes the FPA-2 different from the FA-2 models?

[@trainglen22]

A FPA-2 has a steam generator. It was covered in an issue of Railroad model craftsman a few years ago.

[@alcobufff]

If you would like More info on the alco fa, I did a video on them a about a year back. Here's the link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iYLHdXmgpdyYnKc Thanks for watching!

[@henryszubielski8601]

The FPA-2 and -4 had the visual telltail of the additional grill below the radiator grills at the rear of the locomotive. If I remember correctly the FPA-4 was also longer then the FA-2 and FPA-2. VIA definitely got their money's worth out of them.

[@trainglen22]

@@henryszubielski8601 It was only the FPA-4 that had the additional radiator grille.

[@thenekom]

Were there any B units? Did any survive? I believe there's not a single PB left.

[@socaltrainfan3700]

9:57

[@tomstarcevich1147]

🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃👍

[@matthewq4b]

The reason the MLW F4's were retired first instead of the GMD units was because VIA had more GM power, it was as simple as that.. But fantastic video regardless.