The Many Woes of Nurgle Campaigns, Imbalanced Resources - Total War: Warhammer 3 Immortal Empires

[@hacc7657]

The only big problem Nurgle has is their unit upkeeps are so high for bog standard trash.

[@patrickdaly1088]

I appreciate that CA has paid a small amount of attention to the fact that their games are so totally imbalanced that players recognized unit spam to be an optimal tactic. But their solutions are all total trash, every single one of them, because they all limit player agency at the core. Any limitation to counts is going to backfire every time; Warbands decreased my agency, my ability to choose armies with warriors of chaos. The optimal strategy is to recruit only marauders, chaos warriors, and aspiring champions. Marauder horsemen can be recruited if you fight more battles out, but WoC can autoresolve everything so it's reggo marauders. Horsemen level slower, footmen promote to chaos knights faster. Early game I occasionally recruit a troll or two for siegers but they're not a part of the strategy beyond "has siege attacker trait." By the time I unlock the gifts that give good units, it's too late for me to care. Limiting my choices just means I'm going to find the optimal choice among the fewer remaining choices, shaggoths are simply not an option anymore. 2 or 3 per army is more balanced; But such restrictions make me bring zero. Far better would be to give me a reason to use other troops. If aspiring champion spam gets totally shrekt by something, IE not a doomstack, I'd have a reason to cover them with more than just cavalry. If shaggoth spam gets rekt by spearmen spam(as it should!) then I wouldn't bring 100% shaggoths, I'd bring 2-3.

[@Koganesaga]

You mention faction diversity, just wanted to clarify that with the monogod factions that they are suppose to be very different than the mortal races by design as they aren't of this world. That strange and alien playstyle is there intentionally and messing with it too much could jeopardize their identity. And while the over use of infections can be a bit annoying, you also need to remember the previous system which barely used them at all and understand from a gameplay stand point that a resource the player doesn't use or stops using is a poorly designed resource. That you are taking your time to think about how best use this limited resource is a sign they moved in a good direction, rather than having enough that you use it without thinking. At that point, you might as well Imstall a mod to x10 infection rate.

[@alex55529]

Nurgle not getting infections from sacking/razing settlements is a bug, it's already being reported

[@wendigo7176]

Imo every building should have the same build time for every faction, Tier + 1 turn, so between 2 and 6 turns ALL of them, if a faction has means to reduce it that is their special feature, or get rid of that if it bothers you CA. I modded Lizardmen settlement buildings just like that and they become much more enjoyable immedietly, one stupid little change

[@lolcatjunior]

Supply lines have been buffed in WH3 compared to WH2. WH2 and even WH1 had more expensive armies that had slowed the game down but allowed the AI more time to build up. AI in WH3 struggles to keep up.

[@csexton07]

Nurgle is actually my fav. Race. Next up is green skins and then khorne.

[@darkomihajlovski3135]

Tamurkahn is the only nurgle campaign ive played and didn't touch plagues untill late game just to give my armies some extra replenishment feels like a gimmick more then the main things nurgle is know for

[@hugofreitas6799]

Plagues are very good with Kugath, you can get 75 growthx4 by turb 8 for 5 turns. You preety much get everything at tier 3 in the dragon isles

[@Rewwgh]

That's a big reason why I prefer Epidemius to Tamurkhan. He has noticeable rewards for spreading them, nothing amazing but decent enough to keep me engaged. And want to comb the campaign map for opportunities to spread said plagues. Good fun!

[@adrienwarad]

(SIDE NOTE: cult magus creating a LOT of plagues with unique rite DO NOT account into epidemius counting :( ) frankly, i really love nurgle factions in every ways, the difference i see between me and you is i globally play "more sluggish" by default and getting dangerous without being overwhelming lategame (but im full of roleplay), love festus too, love more slaanesh but CA hates me to make DLC the last of 4 è_é the way to train units is sluggish and "harder at start" but i feel its very rewarding when turn 10 is passed i love all lords but i prefer heavily epidemius, in SP and MP campaign, very fun to me, its more about gameplay variety and how they adapt to your ways/thinking i was surprised that nurgle is the first race where i build the "anti-skaven" yellow line regulary ^^ (because it has the agents :D)

[@darastrixith1868]

Honestly most of the problems you listed for Nurgle are a non-issue, myb it just comes down to an enjoyment thing as in you don't enjoy his playstyle. Epidemius is one of the strongest starting legendary lords on the battle map, if you know how to leverage that and he has a few things that you can abuse, It truly is busted in a Skaven fun way but he is very unassuming at first glance. He is similar to Skaven in that regard, unless u understand what ur doing with them, u think they are a pretty weak faction. Epidemius has some of the strongest faction wide armies in the entire game. Everyone always complains about Epidemiusonly being a good 1 man doomstack and the rest of his armies not being as strong, but his non-Epidemius armies are stronger than any other Nurgle options and they are easily top 5 in the game if u know how to build and play them. I haven't gone through it with a fine tooth comb, but I have a hard time finding a stronger army that isn't a 1 off unique army that can't be replicated than Epidemius's armies. The way people should view Epidemius specifically (this excludes other Nurgle lords) is that if ur campaign is gonna last less than 20 turns, don't play him (u can cheese his start to skip the unenjoyable part, but u still gotta wait for the best parts). If ur campaign is gonna last 60 turns, he is one of the most powerful campaigns out there on the battle map. If ur gonna play him for more than 100 turns, he is easily top 5 strongest campaigns on the battle map, as long as u can get there and u have fun playing Warhammer on the battle map and not autoresolving (he is still good at it, but playing him that way isn't utilizing 100% of his strength) he is one of the factions you will enjoy the most. There is a thing you can do to get to the best part earlier, if anyone cares I can divulge a few of the Nurgle secrets after all no one loves you like Nurgle loves you. So just ask me if you care, I don't wanna write for another hour only for nobody to read it lol. There is a specific thing you can do to get to the turn 100 fun part in less than 60 turns. On a personal note at first I rly hated Epidemius, until a few months ago I tried him out and that rly shifted my perspective on him, he is super unassuming in that way unless you play him. I have since then played him multiple times and he is currently my second most played campaign in TWW3. I just found his change of pace of the campaign super refreshing, the part ur complaining about I actually found I enjoyed it. Honestly I wouldn't want CA to change him and increase his early game power, we have 2 other Nurgle lords that do that already, if u wanna play a shorter campaign play them and let him be a unique playstyle as a Mortus Engine master and Leadership debuffer. He is a very unique playstyle and niche and if u ever get tired of the standard campaigns, u can enjoy this exotic campaign. I don't trust CA enough to rework him and not ruin the best parts about him. Epidemius is like moldy cheese, he is an acquired taste and just bcs initially 99% of ppl hate it doesn't mean over time ppl won't gravitate towards him once they understand him more. TL;DR Epidemius is like melee Skaven, if u like playing longer campaigns (think at least 60 turns) enjoy melee and like the cheesy playstyle of Skaven, you will like Epidemius. Otherwise TWW3 has other wonderful campaigns that u can enjoy. Nurgle's strongest soldier signing out.

[@damo9961]

Tell me. I love Nurgle. Can't see how his other armies can be that strong, how do they get buffs other Nurgle factions don't get?

[@darastrixith1868]

@@damo9961 Here is my write up I did: Epidemius campaign has the strongest generic Nurgle armies and I will explain how. There are 2 major factors for Epidemius Campaign that make him one of the most powerful campaigns in battle to a ridicioulous level. Tip: Getting enough infection income to start spreading a plague every 1-2 turns so u have +20 plagues running at all times and infect all enemy armies is essential, having a mix of infection and economy buildings is key, early economy is more valuable later infection buildings. Also creating plague cultists that follow your own armies so u can spread plagues just in case enemy armies aren't infected by a plague is also very important. You want to send a nurgle cultist towards the empire for when the Nemesis Crown spawns so u can build a cult there and one at ur current location, then you teleport Epidemius near the nemesis crown and then u teleport back when u finish taking it Mortus Engines Master race: -When you have 20+ tally all enemy infected armies get a effect that deal 20-40 dmg to themselves, basically ur entire army gets a mortus engine and it's one of the most powerful mortus engine damage wise in the game. But wait there's more -Exalted Great Unclean Ones get at the end of the melee lines which does 16-32 dmg to enemies -There is a common weapon that gives 5-10 dmg. (plague flail) -last one is a banner but it isn't that important as it only lasts 17 sec and 120 sec CD -You want nemesis Crown for Epidemius (I only have the II version of the mortus engine on screen, the III version is stronger). It also provides a huge buff to all of ur plagues as it buffs chance of plague spreading by a lot. This is a total 82 dmg per sec +10 for 17/137 sec (for Exalted Great Unclean ones) and finally for Epidemius like an extra 80 on top when u have the max lvl nemesis crown. True Fear and Terror: -If you have 20+ plagues going on, enemy armies infected by plagues have -10 leadership -Fear provides another -8 -Fomenter trait gives -4 enemy leadership to local province, the following characters can get it: Herald of Nurgle, Exalted Great Unclean One, Cultist of Nurgle, Plagueridden -Exalted Great Unclean Ones get a skill Foetid Stench that provide -8 leadership in a 35m radius -You also have access to death magic This is a total of -30 leadership base near a exalted Great Unclean one and and additional -4 per extra fomenter lord or hero in the region. The other nurgle lords can do these 2 things but their Mortus engine only applies to the exalted great unclean ones unlike this one which is faction wide as long as enemies have a plague and is half as effective at best and his leadership debuffs just start out more effective than the other 2 thanks to his -10 leadership debuff to plagued armies. All of this combined make his armies just stronger baseline. If ur ok with playing saved characters and want a accelerated start and getting to the fun Exalted Great Unclean One playstyle I farmed by confederating a lvl 1 Exalted Great Unclean One Lord with the fomenter trait and I have duplicated it, Join Costin Gaming discord and ping me on it and I will send u the save files. Bonus: Exalted Heroes of Nurgle have a skill that give -10 armor to enemy armies in local province, stacking is fun.

[@Rewwgh]

I tend to ignore Nemesis Crown myself but I am a fellow Epidemius enjoyer. Yes the first ten or so turns suck but once you have a couple resource buildings and bunch of heroes it gets fun really fast.

[@darastrixith1868]

@@Rewwgh Nemesis Crown gives you like 25% or 30% (I forget the exact number) chance for plague spread for all future plagues and Epidemius's personal Mortus Engine goes up to like 172 or 182 dmg per sec (I forget the exact number) and the extra movement from winning campaign battles and the fact he can teleport using cults enables him to never lose Nemesis Crown by spreading a few emergency cults when low on nearby battles. Also it's super easy to get, all you have to do is once u build ur first garrison (I tend to build Garrisons in my first province as the first building as I tend to expand in 1 direction I then instantly recruit a cultist and send them towards the empire and he leaves 1 random Cult along the way at Eran Grad and on my last campaign at around turn 30 My Cultist Arrived at Altdorf and the Nemesis Crown Spawned in Nuln So I just prepare for that now and get the cultist in my main army to build a cult building to the next target I plan to attack, then I teleport collect the nemesis crown and the turn after that I attack where my cult building is located. U waste 0 time, especially if it takes you more than 1 turn to go from the initial teleporting settlement to the next settlement

[@damo9961]

@@darastrixith1868 Thanks man

[@Bestien]

How to play nurgle : dont play them hehe

[@nidhoggcrowley]

its fine for some faction to play different. its fine for some factions to have a weak start and strong end game.

[@vargknight]

Seems like you don't really have an argument here to be honest. You are simultaneously claiming the Nurgle campaign builds up too slowly, but then that's it's also over too quickly, that makes no sense. It also seems that your main complaint around infections is based on how you are choosing to use them, as I didn't find any issues in a recent Tamurkhan campaign to get enough infections for whatever I wanted after like the first 10 turns. Sounds like you just want every faction to work in the exact same way other than having different aesthetics.

[@darkomihajlovski3135]

It makes perfect sense nurgle takes longer to get going then other factions then gets a huge power boost once you get a bunch of recruitment building to stack up units Effectively your urly game the most interesting part of the game is worse then almost everyone else then when you reach the endgame where your just painting the map you instantly get to be op in every part of the game you get the worst experience

[@naummw6328]

how is that campaign over already bro? u don't even have 20 settlements I'm not saying you will lose that campaign 99% u are mega ahead but u could theoretically lose if you make one or two bad decisions and one of your armies gets ambushed and killed of fully

[@tonyslice4094]

Dude I think nurgle overpowered especially tomerikan

[@Tragic_Arrogance]

So, basically, you're crying because they made Nurgle a slow start that develops into an unstoppable late game? That sounds more like an issue with the campaign meta than with Nurgle. I do agree that late game with any race is pretty much just a grindfest and that isn't a healthy meta, but suggesting that CA should just make every race play into the same boring early game aggro snowball strategy would result in an even worse meta. Unfortunately, until CA employs an actually competent AI for their Total War games, I doubt the meta will be changing and races like Nurgle will keep suffering for it.

[@Costin_Gaming]

Well there's a choice really: They can change the meta to work better and keep races as they are, or they can change the race to work better.

[@vargknight]

100% some weird arguments being made here, which does sound like it essentially boils down to he wants every faction to play the exact same, which I agree with you would make the game boring as hell if that were the case.

[@Tragic_Arrogance]

@@Costin_Gaming Well, to that, I'll just say, you have way more faith in CA's abilities than I do. If they were capable of changing either of those things meaningfully for the better, they would have done it by now. They've been doing Warhammer for nearly a decade now and the improvements have been minimal. It always seems to be one step forward and three steps backwards with CA, which is one of the reasons I hope they go out of business soon so someone competent can pick up Total War.

[@pauls8227]

​​@@Tragic_ArroganceHistorically when people go out of business. How quickly does someone pick up the IP? Not just buy it but actually make games for it? I'm asking not telling.

[@Tragic_Arrogance]

@@pauls8227 I really couldn't care less. As long as CA is out of the picture, I can wait indefinitely for someone else to pick up the IP.