The Maw Quest So Dark, It Was Removed From The Beta - [Unknown Side of WoW]

[@aspiringnormie9499]

Thank you for still covering the lore and parts of the game that are less socially topical.

[@Hiihtopipa]

What do you mean, i talk about these in parties all the time?

[@kou7191]

"too dark" is really an interesting reason, considering you're *literally* in Hell - it can't possibly get darker than that.

[@TheTrueDaniel]

It's woke Disney hell now 😢

[@DiesNahts6969]

Goldshire Inn....

[@riftwalker9296]

I love how Blizzard thinks the Maw lore was too dark, but left in a quest where you LITERALLY torture someone for information in WotLK.

[@devilskiss8421]

ah those were the times, now warcraft lost its soul

[@griggins]

Well, ya just zap a guy with something right? There are multiple quests where you torture for info and kill people in wotlk. I guess the difference here is that this guy was in a chair lol

[@etou1146]

It's called framing. By leaving out crucial information, you create an incomplete picture in the readers mind. So if you really care about the lorewise "torture" (which mechanically is just beating an enemy like you do all the time) you would also have to add the fact that the player is lorewise a unfree servant of the Lich King at this moment of time

[@spongebobonmolly]

the gnomish tavern music was too much

[@lenkagamine4145]

@@etou1146 I think they were talking about the *other* quest where you torture people for information, with the Scarlet Onslaught in borean tundra (I think).

[@bigmeknurgle]

The Algon star was a pretty neat reference, and it's a great analogy for Ulduar's final boss. A now-active demon star, a sign of ill omen, inconsistent with it's brightness, orbiting around the Titans, but waning when shown the fortitude of Azeroth. Kinda wish I didn't keep getting red herring'd with Garrosh thumbnails tho.

[@bonefetcherbrimley7740]

I remember reading this description in game, but I can't remember if it was the beta or live. Either way, super brutal! Its a shame blizzard wimped out and removed it. We're literally in super warcraft hell and no one mentions the torture? Pft. Pft I say! Still, cool vid.

[@HEEHEEBOII]

it was around in live for a bit, probably got patched within the first few patches. I remember reading it too.

[@PopsicleSponge]

Its for sure in live. i didn't play beta and recognize the text.

[@huslainemaxwell9866]

one possibility is also that they removed those really grim parts about torturing a nightelf by forcing her to relive Teldrassil because it would have only served to emphasize just how terrible and irredeemable the actions of WoWs morally gray universally loved main character are, and that would have clashed with the story direction they want to take Sylvanas after turning on Thanos.

[@monkeysk8er33]

Yes, because seeing both Kael'thas and Garrosh in chains didn't imply any form of torture whatsoever. Especially in the dialogue between Garrosh and his torturer. 🙄

[@9and12wholepizzas]

Hey just wanted to say thank you for the content, I really enjoy your videos and watch them a few times each. Keep doing you man!

[@hirumaredx]

Thanks!

[@ZackeroniAndCheese]

Your final fact about auto trade addon is very cool I never knew that. I would love a video about how wow tried to adapt Everquest (or other old MMO) ideals.

[@northp3214]

So torturing one night elf soul is too brutal for the game, but killing the souls of innocent teldrasill citizens after burning them alive and months of torture in the maw is okay? Blizzard's moral compass is very strange

[@kronk1894]

"a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic"

[@CrashHeadroom]

The moral compass points whatever way the party tells it to comrade :)

[@Xorrak]

muh 6 million

[@poeticserenade]

I cannot help but feel that the cutting of the anima extraction thing is because of the whole QAnon "adrenachrome" conspiracy shit going on at the time.

[@chrisramsteck5866]

Might as well call all your channels hirumagold. Because everything that comes out is gold

[@hirumaredx]

lol, that was actually the name of my main in game for years. I only changed it recently in BFA to hirumaredx to better match the channel

[@frydsaman6857]

@@hirumaredx A very necessary rebrand

[@chrisramsteck5866]

@@hirumaredx A very necessary rebrand

[@Ryan-sn3uo]

One might mistake that as an Asmongold affiliated channel

[@TajUrIt_VT]

The implication that the Kal’dorei female that was tortured may have been Tyrande itches my brain in the best way.

[@Feorr001]

Recently i got a bit into Warhammer 40k lore so im a bit dulled against dark lore things but objectively this isnt "we can't leave this in PG13 game" level of dark. The description isnt detailed at all just says "limit is 114 for kaldorei females"

[@Twistybanana]

Technically its limit 114, breaking point 115 for a single female Kaldorei. Others may go longer or shorter

[@numnaut1314]

After learning about the Dark Eldar, or the flayed ones. Stuff like this looks like Childs play.

[@SwedetasticGames]

The Torturer's Note is a massive Amnesia: The Dark Descent easter egg/inspiration. It is the exact process (although with mild comedy thrown in) that Alexander used to extract more Vitae from his torture victims.

[@RFC-3514]

3:14 - Dark? It's mostly a vehicle for a joke about gnome music. And "forced to re-watch the burning of Teldrassil 115 times" is probably a self-deprecating joke about the way the game replays the same video on every alt. If anything, I think they removed that note because the jokes undermined the sense of danger and torment they were trying to create for the Maw.

[@Nilllan]

Im so thankful for These videos, keep it up Hiru

[@genultz4866]

2:58 something like that is in the game, there's a dead lady up by stygian incinerator with a letter beside it with similar writing as just a random readable.

[@hirumaredx]

that is where it is from, in the beta the note you got from her was readable, but in the live version it is not.

[@genultz4866]

@@hirumaredx I could swear I found it in live shortly after it came out I never played beta but I could be misremembering I'd have to go look again could be something similar it's been a while. If I find it or what I was talking about I'll tweet you.

[@danielaxc2900]

Idk I think the dark questline left out from the Maw was a huge mistake on the devs parts and I'll try to explain why in depth. Part of what made the Shadowlands shorts so good is they made a strong case for why the Shadowlands are important and what is at stake. We know the Maw is a bad place and bad things happen to the souls there but we don't really get a lot of first hand accounts or real ideas of the severity of the bad stuff. This takes away a bit from the urgency or seriousness of the threat at hand, or at least lends itself to a lot of potentially effective stories they could tell but they just don't. An older example, the Runas questline from Legion, is a good firsthand view of how one character's struggle with the world they inhabit and a consequence of the Legion SELLS that threat. You want justice for Runas at the conclusion of the questline, just how you would have wanted justice for the elf forced to watch the burning of Teldrassil 100+ times. It's just good world building, in my opinion.

[@Rizon1985]

The second event was known. It was going to be the reverse of AQ and make players first need to defend against the continuous flood of demons from the gate while getting supplies ready to breach the gate and setup a defense on the other end to stop them there. Securing the stairs was an advantage over defending in a crater and having a beachhead means safe travel through the portal and sending reinforcements out to the keeps that we lost contact with long ago. They even tested this event of demons flooding from the gate and players having to defend. There were reports of people who were there for it. They were testing if upgraded servers were better up to the challenge or how they could tune the event to make it a better experience for players than AQ. But it just didn't work without applying restrictions that would make the event too small and lose the feel of a world event. They also didn't want to make some kind of war effort again if players didn't gain from joining the effort and they didn't want different servers unlocking travel to Draenor at different times or new servers having to catch up. They just wanted everyone to buy the exp pack and all servers be able to teleport to Draenor at the same time worldwide. So it all got downgraded. Players just have a small quest at the gate and Kruul can be farmed for a while. That's why later in wotlk they implemented personal instances in maps and many more ingame movies. This enabled them to bring more massive events into the world of the player without killing the server or the client. And this then also gave them the ability for other uses with the tech like making maps transform visually depending on the progression of the player.

[@tschellotov6372]

Good Video Hiru! Keep the good work up!

[@DuckBoiGames]

I've been so addicted to wow recently. This channel has been my best friend during the past few weeks :D thankyou for the content

[@enkh-erdenebatbold1177]

Dont play too much and ruin your life brother.

[@PaperiLiidokki]

Hey nice to hear your having fun with the game, but you know what, you should really try Final Fantasy 14, it's another really good game of the same genre

[@DuckBoiGames]

@@enkh-erdenebatbold1177 I wont haha

[@DuckBoiGames]

@@PaperiLiidokki I will give it a look thanks

[@PaperiLiidokki]

@@DuckBoiGames Start with just a free to play, don't buy it, you get to play base game Real reborn and Heavensward expansion for FREE! to level 60, with some restrictions BUT you get to experience the FULL story of Realm reborn and Heavensward expansion and it's totally worth it. Heavensward being a award winning expansion After that make your decision if you want to full commit

[@ben-64]

Gods forbid they kept the flavorful PG-13 torture note in a zone that is LITERALLY HELL. This is why I still follow the game despite having quit months ago. Constant reminders that I made the right decision. Fuck Blizzard.

[@1un4cy]

It's not even bad it's kind of funny actually. Well the tavern music part where it tortured the tormentors more than the subject.

[@peachike]

get a life please

[@BenDover-gc4xs]

@@peachike he did by choosing to quit WoW. Can u say the same thing about urself?

[@Mysteriosf2ptwink]

@@BenDover-gc4xs Quit wow yet still follows the game to trash on it. Clearly has a life.

[@peachike]

@@Mysteriosf2ptwink exactly my point!

[@mambojambo4870]

Hiru you're the only warcraft channel i'm still subscribed to, shadowlands did the lore really bad... Thanks for your videos! Love em

[@VforArt]

the darkest story of WOW is that game it self turned in to wife beater ... it tortures us with its systems, grind, chores and constant obstacles to fun

[@stevensperanza109]

Every video you make i learn something new. Thanks man :D

[@majormom357]

I don't play the game anymore but watching a hiru video makes me feel like I'm 15 again and losing my life to wow. Love the nostalgia

[@JaneLame]

Thanks!

[@JaneLame]

Also: for the Dark Lady, always.

[@xadamx94]

“115th run of burning of teldrassil” nice little zombies nod. In fact, the maw reminds me of Alcatraz……….

[@SwedetasticGames]

Also, the Warlock Dark Portal event, would've been so cool if they could've pulled it off. Imagine if we'd had cool stuff like that for Black Temple with pally's and priests, Mages for Malygos, DK's for Icecream Citadel, Hunters for Gruul, Rogue's for Serpent Shrine Cavern...

[@hunlepto2239]

And druids themselves should have done a pre-requisite quest for opening the AQ gates in the first place before the War Effort event starts. So many great ideas had to be scrapped.

[@chuklesty]

The last fact is what's happening currently on Path of Exile. We have to use a external webpage to find items to buy and then you whisp people on the game. The company gave us a official trade website but it still sucks when buying a lot of items because people doesn't respond often, price fixers, etc...

[@hirumaredx]

Man, that sounds inconvenient

[@KokomoJoe23]

What’s the name of the piano piece playing during the auction house bit at the end?

[@SntMighty]

I played about 7 years of Guild Wars 1 and u had a face-to-face trade system there, to be quite honest i dont think it felt too social either but u did have some fun faces here and there, but then again nowadays we go for whatever is more convenient rather than things that take more effort

[@theamazinggracia1376]

@hirumaredx I think you need to recheck the snarlmane becuase Kealthas also kills a gnoll who was named Snarlmane right on where Fenris Keep should be located on repair the Observatory first blood campaing mission. This located was swarmed by scourge on second mission following that one which can explain his undead being.

[@jeanbean191]

Seriously love your vids hiru, always a great day when you upload

[@pumirya]

this is dark? I’m grateful that the people who make final fantasy XIV aren’t so skittish.

[@Loki-qo2kb]

Funny thing about blizzard's twisted worldview is that they have bosses in WoW like Thaddius, made exclusively from women and children, you can hear them scream in the raid as ambient, and the screams only stop if you killed the boss, but Gnomish tavern jiggs? Too dark man

[@habama1077]

​@@Loki-qo2kb If Blizzard was replaced with the current one (that is currently replacing paintings of women with fruit) back in 2006 when they were designing Naxx, you can bet they would not have dared to write a boss like Thaddius. At some point they figured that treating their players like children is better than fixing their actual in-company issues. so yeah, very twisted worldview.

[@Shiirow]

@@habama1077 Dont worry, Thadius will be replaced with a bowl of fruit and the ambient sound will be children laughing and playing. Change coming in 9.2

[@BenDover-gc4xs]

@@Shiirow good one mate XD

[@xenomorphic9708]

Love your videos man! Just got back into wow after years XD. Would love to see a video on how macros work and how to use them affectively to be a better player!

[@ShadowDawn]

Great video! Maybe you've already done this, but it'd be interesting to see a history of addons that became in-game features, like you were saying with the Autotrade addon.

[@bonkyouded]

the whole lore items in the maw made me feel sad. Imagine if we got a lot of logs of different characters being tortured in torghast and the final one sounded like Garrosh hellscream... Nodding to that fact he went to the maw and not to Castle Nathria. I do hope this time the wow team is taking is for the good of the game and not to just repeat the cycle.

[@preds43]

Like the audio files from Batman: Arkham City. Oooooo, I like that idea.

[@petrameyer1121]

But EQ had a Bazzar on Luclin! Awesome vid as usual. TY!

[@DMSteeley]

I've been trying to remember the name of that Cosmo mod for like five years, thanks fam.

[@thanganbabp5570]

face to face trading sounds kinda cool. ive heard lots of neat stories from people who used to play runescape about stuff like that

[@ElladanKenet]

"Okay, this is Prisoner #34,522. How should we start off today?" "I'm thinking.... Gnomish Tavern Music!"

[@soundparticle1498]

Another good one in the bag for the man himself!

[@MythicalWiseNab]

Warcraft Was Meant To Be Dark And Violent

[@lukaslefevre8007]

this, i wish they would go back instead of this cosmic bullshit

[@1nsaniel]

It's not called peacecraft, smh

[@pyktukasplays4945]

To be fair, the works of "Lovecraft" aren't exactly "lovely" so perhaps Warcraft is meant to be an inverse of that? But in all seriousness, older lore is probably darker. Heck, even the orcish hero doesn't eat pork because piggie squeals remind him how the slaughtered children screamed... The whole road in Hellfire has almost an ocean of skulls... Stratholme and what Arthas did in his kingdom after returning from Northrend. Multiple genocides... Enslavement of humanoids and others.

[@lukaslefevre8007]

@@pyktukasplays4945 older lore IS darker, even in WoD it was pretty fucking dark, it went downhill in legion and after

[@pyktukasplays4945]

@@lukaslefevre8007 Legion's lore implied another very successful genocide

[@tomeekun]

I honestly doubt the lore items were removed because they were just so dark. They've shown way worse stuff in wow before. I think it's just a case of they were forgotten in the scramble when they had to crunch to finish SL for launch.

[@hirumaredx]

Except they were already in and able to be done, they were removed, not "forgotten"

[@profpuffofficial2]

YES MORE HIRU 💕💕

[@edluke3415]

Wasn't expecting to see Durn from Ropetown, shout-out to all the dawgs who played on burning legion US back in vanilla

[@Vaelosh466]

I stopped playing Shadowlands before the Korthia patch so maybe this was already addressed, but I don't recall the game ever specifying whether other Maw Walkers "exist" in lore, or whether your PC is the only one. If not then that note would effectively confirm that there are multiple Maw Walkers. As I recall all the characters refer to you as if your Maw Walking is unique.

[@comradep8519]

i assumed they were referring to other PCs, since canonically it'd be a bit silly if only one PC could ever exist, thus meaning every character is a separate maw walker

[@griggins]

I hoped for darker, but it's alright. The video was good so I'm not too disappointed.

[@mrtianflo7728]

Hiru!! Hope you're doing well and making sure you're well rested 😊

[@x1plus1x]

Keep em coming

[@adriangar95]

Duda there are tons of channels of wow curiositys but are always the same , but you take new one every time! Its crazy like the auto trade addon!

[@Pesthuf]

It's fascinating how Sylvanas made so much use of mind control to reach her goals in Warcraft 3, but the current WoW writers portray her as this paragon of free will who hates enslavement and serving.

[@preds43]

"Breaking point: 115th run of the Burning of Teldrassil" BRUH WTF???

[@ArcaneEther]

As with that "Auto Trade" add-on becoming baked into WoW, I wish Blizzard would take a closer look at the most popular Add-Ons out there and do the same. Thaoky's Altoholic, BagNon, MonkeySpeed, Molinari, Gryphon Remover, et cetera. These are all Add-Ons that are very popular, yet offer such basic tools that it is a wonder Blizzard never put them in the game by default. I signed up for that Community Council. If I am chosen, I will do what I can to try to convince them to bake this stuff in as options.

[@alphaomega938]

Goddamn being a lock never fails to reward, truly the best class first last and always

[@RFC-3514]

1:23 - "She wasn't shy about using mind control as long as that control is not directed at her." - Er... what does that sentence mean? That she doesn't want to control _her own_ mind?

[@JRTIntervencion]

Oh damn, the AH beta is so interesting :O

[@bakshev]

GNOMISH TAVERN JIGS!?!?!? THOSE MONSTERS!!!

[@iruga7379]

Me: /spit Blizzard: OH NOO THE HORROR !! Too Dark...remove it..

[@noprisoners8621]

The most darkest quest they have is to play shadowlands.

[@TheAero36]

Didn’t the WoW diary flat out say the warlock event was for the tbc opening

[@falscherkim3033]

Regarding your final fact: a Video would be very interesting where you Show all Features added to the Game which where inspired by addons

[@Rheolity]

I coulda swore i've read that night elf torture note in game before... But maybe i've just seen this video already

[@Pumkin932]

A quest that was so spoopy, they removed it from the game? My god... I bet it had something to do with a PG-13 innuendo, demon SlAvEs, or... or... a painting of a woman being... ALL WOMANLY OR SOMETHING OH GOD PLEASE NO IT'S TOO SCARY.

[@LuLu-uz3lg]

quick! turn it into fruit !

[@Nexsusthepro]

Pretty sure I read the torghast tormentor notes in live.

[@svn8849]

Algol. nice to learn stuff!

[@gymlife408]

they should have removed the Maw entirely-this place was what made me rethink even logging in

[@CroftGaming]

1:19 damn that scared me

[@Solus5048]

How does the mawsworn have access to gnomish jigs?

[@foretcl]

Why not, the jailer is basically god

[@hirumaredx]

Some gnome likely got sent to the maw and wrote em.

[@Solus5048]

@@hirumaredx ur reply makes more sense than the one above

[@iceman_twitch]

I think AutoTrade is better than the actual AuctionHouse. But Auction House issue nowadays is most ppl quitted the game so it is hard to sell anything.

[@cruros9084]

6:20 That would have been so COOL

[@seelcudoom1]

it would make sense for him to be classified as undead even if he was still alive if he was still possessed by a banshee

[@Icetor85]

Blizzard be like oh you have to do this Players will we don’t like to do that Blizzard deal with it Players leave game because developers don’t want to listen to Feed back Blizzard pikach face

[@godzgoliath]

Anyone thinking about the snarling story from drama time during vanilla launch?

[@hiropisku1078]

Don't worry guys, they'll bring back the quest but replace the NPCs with fruit

[@ThePariahDark]

"Blizz wanted the game to be very social, face to face" ... ... And one day, they woke up, and decided social is for losers and began making groupfinder, LFR, ...

[@Guarrow]

Why didn't they just made their own version of the trading addon instead of the whole auction house system is pretty weird to me. I feel like it was the perfect solution for what the devs wanted and I do wish it was like that too

[@-Miasimon]

"Too dark" Oh but genociding a bunch of elves, personally rolling a molten ball over *hundreds* of leper gnomes (still salty about that not being a repeatable quest), and basically anything in Wrath or Legion, are all OK.

[@Chace957]

Nice!

[@KnightofEkron]

I think this was my overall problem with Shadowlands, if dumped alot of lore on us and didnt do any of it justice, it seemed like it pulled back at the last minute.

[@thomasgreenwood3560]

Nice vid

[@Gruntman1234]

"Too Dark" is not something I'd use to describe anything in The Maw. "Trying Too Hard," on the other hand, is much more accurate.

[@wcg6857]

I thought the star caller guy was based on Vision from marvel

[@kitsunefire1]

"It was disconcerting that we had to change the game to keep players from circumventing the system" Maybe it's the recent bias, but this is one of the most "Blizzard" things I've ever read "We don't wanna change the game to make it more enjoyable for players, we want it to be as inefficient as possible"

[@ballsofsalsa01]

Dude people apparently liked Vanilla where everything was tedious and slow, dislike group finder and LFR , QoL although seems obvious to be good, some will disagree They want the forced feeling of social interaction. Ever wondered why we have dungeon queues, instead of going around asking for people to make a group like in vanilla? We can do that now , and walk to the dungeon and do it like the old time, but no one would ever do it when you have a simpler tool like dungeon finder. They've constantly shifted the gane to be more dynamic and leave behind empty time of nothing or just walking to the place, with portals and warlock summon ✌️ if anything, it's modern blizz that gives you liberties to take your road compared to before that was "style over substance", you gotta buy your bullets for your gun bc that's what fantasy 101 says do , and raids had only 1 difficulty for the same reason 😬

[@1un4cy]

I'd much rather have a mythic key queue than having to manually get declined from thousands of other groups and have no one ever sign for my own keys.

[@ballsofsalsa01]

@@1un4cy POV you're Enhancement shaman

[@Champeon12457]

For the Algorythm!!!!

[@ilikefishandpotatoes]

It’s like they are desperately trying to make the game kid accessible yet very few kids play WoW these days and just end up disappointing a lot of adults

[@pyktukasplays4945]

WoW should just try to be itself again. Then it would attract the right audience for itself, I think.

[@Tronarul]

Tnx for the toy, I'd be nice to have one of those in every video whenever possible

[@gazza7693]

Nothing that Blizzard creates could ever be as dark and deranged as what happened in real life amongst their employees, that shit was evil AF.

[@pyktukasplays4945]

Although the badness of Blizzard is quite bad, that even some employees committed suicide.(a lot of harresment, very primitive options about women, many lies) It is very very easy to imagine worse places, even I can do it.

[@Bitterman5868]

Thank God that Elder Scrolls killed all the love i had for blizzard. Todd saves

[@daniellemary8895]

Now!

[@Mr_Spaghetti]

do the editor and the narrator have beef? i get the vibe that they have beef

[@pyktukasplays4945]

The editor has a KZbin channel (you can check it in the Guru's channels). May I ask what makes you think that there is beef between the editor and the narrator if this video?

[@Mr_Spaghetti]

@@pyktukasplays4945 there have been multiple times where it’ll say something like “editors note: Hiru misread the interview, they actually said this: blah blah blah” rather than.. being an editor and editing out the mistake or having him redo that segment. Sometimes it’ll even be like “editors note: blah blah blah” and then “Hiru’s note before uploading: _actually_ blah blah blah” It’s like the only way they communicate is through text in their videos

[@Briannguyen604]

Do you still play wow?

[@adriancervenka7682]

fun detected

[@Jenartik]

makes no sense why Varimathras was begging for his life now

[@pyktukasplays4945]

Well be is a manipulator, so maybe it was an act?

[@beardedhippo8528]

Blizzard was disconcerning about players implementing their own systems cause they didnt play the game the way blizzard intented people to play it.; Now in 2021 this sentence carries so much more weight lol xd

[@jorgebellidolavado6382]

I am slowing thinking to go to private servers with altered stories. They don't care about writing

[@MrOrcshaman]

Sylvanas is as hypocritical as woke collage students complaining about everyone's privilege while on their iPhones in their bolts made in sweatshops in China drinking their soy lattes.

[@RandomGamerCory]

at this point being a removed quest does not have a high bar just making a joke or calling something a female will get it cut

[@TheOldestSoul]

Dude.... not being able to mount in the maw was the biggest "eff you" to players that Blizzard ever pulled.

[@1nsaniel]

Not really. They could've made the maw more busy, and not a grey barren

[@bunbox]

"Algol is also the name of an early programming language" ............no, an Algorithm is a thing in computing in general, the programming language just means it used algorithms. Its a reference a "Process" or a "Series of steps pre-defined to be taken" known as an "Algorithm". In this case the Algorithm being an automated evaluation and re-origination. Please don't reach so hard, you're just going to be so desperate trying to find this one thing its a reference to, that you'll miss the actual thing its a reference to.

[@DiesNahts6969]

Seeing your home and people burn again and again is pretty metal but idk man it just seems so.... meh. I hoped for way worse