The Messenger & The Nostalgia Game Trap

Remember Ninja Gaiden?
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[@underthemayo]

BRAWLER and Mayo merch here! teespring.com/stores/underthemayo Support me on Patreon. patreon.com/underthemayo KZbin Memberships to my channel now available, click the "Join" button. Follow me on Twitch at twitch.tv/underthemayo

[@tommytimmy9742]

Regular "U just want every game to be Doom Eternal" here XD. Thx for the vid tho

[@JazzyUnderscoreTrumpeter]

It's not like it's something he hides 😭🙏

[@RacingSnails64]

The Fun Zone is eternal

[@ducktape-3470]

Basically xD Mayo Doing Mayo Things.

[@CaribbeanOlympian]

The Messenger is a game I’ve held off on playing for quite a while since Celeste, Hollow Knight, the Blaster Master Zero trilogy, and ESPECIALLY the Axiom Verge games grabbed me by the throat and pinned me down. Oh my god I’m so glad that I finally got to it. Definitely another platformer to stand alongside my favorites. :)

[@Voidling242]

I love hollow kight

[@paulgerald1985]

I picked this up when Epic had it for free last year. The game was very good, but the music though. Absolute bangers. Stuck in my head for weeks after

[@jmhaces]

I only just played this game a couple of weeks ago and I just loved it. I was blown away to find out that it's set in the same world as the recent "Sea of Stars" made by the same studio.

[@gavinmack7076]

i really like sea of stars and its connection with the messenger, especially how time shards became a currency. the messenger is my most favorite game and sea of stars is right behind it

[@SirPiedrecita]

Every Metroidvania fan needs to play that game, I'm even starting to really like metroidvanias thanks to The Messenger, I think they nailed it, for me it was like the first half but with more "stuff", also some of the zones were more like levels because you needed to complete it once.

[@SyncroScales]

Ninja Gaiden was in the Platform(s) Arcade, Amiga, Amstrad CPC, Atari Lynx, DOS, Game Boy, Game Gear, Master System, Microsoft Windows, mobile phone, PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16.

[@Saibott55]

Man... That really is a cool hat

[@radicallyecstatic222]

I love your breakdown of video games and your honesty of how much enjoyment you get from them. Your succinct and eloquent with your word choice which makes listening all that much more interesting to listen to. I look forward to more videos from you.

[@JnGArtimation]

Feels like just some people thought too literal when it comes to nostalgia. To me, I just see it as "these are the resources you have for the time". Sure, I love Sonic the Hedgehog but that doesn't mean I want nothing but 32-bit Sonic games. Some modern games just do unnecessary add-ons that just ruin the experience. You'll get SoR4 and DOOM 2016 and it's just right. Meanwhile, you'll get Star Fox Zero then start asking God "why?". Honestly, the second I saw the plot of RE Village, I started calling Ethan "Harry Mason". "Father goes to mysterious place of undesignated location", "Has to find young daughter", "Daughter is used for some kind of religious cult", "Antagonist has some close relation to the daughter", "One of your aids is an authority figure". Only thing missing was the monsters being some amalgamation of Ethan's psyche. That's also been my gripe with survival horror from Indies. It's like "yea, I'm supposed to survive, but, strip me away of anything to even try to fight back?" At least Fiona had a dog in Haunting Ground. Rule of Rose had wonky controls but it was still okay. I say "fight back" but I'm not meaning "give me a bazooka or a gun". Take Outlast, you telling me I can't break off the leg of a table and least swing at a few people coming my way? Just feels they take the "hide and seek" too literal when surviving can be anything. But "hiding" is just easier to animate. I say Alien Isolation is a perfect example of being able to fight back/defend yourself but still keeping the intensity that the Alien is gonna murder you by any means. Some games just work better being linear. Others work better being open-world. I don't believe every game needs to be a sandbox. Not every game needs a "skill tree". Hell, I miss unlocking extra game modes and characters just by meeting conditions that wasn't always "beat game on bullshit difficulty". Back then, there was just "play 500 matches". "Beat game-within-game mode". "Unlock this character by getting to this part of the game but not killing certain character here". "Beat game in under XXX hours". From 2011 to 2016, they tried bringing that back but they gave you really shitty requirements to "unlock" things. I'm fine with "progression unlocks" but I'm not too keen on grindy things. I'm cool with farming though. Finding new armor pieces as I play games like Nioh 2. I just feel that "if you're gonna make a game, remember WHY you liked that genre of the game you're making and try to bring that experience out". Don't just be "some dude who just want to work for a video game dev team/company". There's a LOT of things I love about fighting games, brawlers like SoR, shooters like Perfect Dark and Halo, Survival Horrors like Silent Hill and RE2, and RPGs like Grandia 2 and FF7. I'm just tired of game devs and showrunners becoming pretentious dicks now. That being said, with how SoR4 was handled, I am looking forward to TMNT Shredder's Revenge.

[@RagnarokMic]

You had me worried there for a second, talking about how nostalgia only goes so far, and how after that a game needs to step up, I was like "Is he about to say and that's where the Messenger falls short?" because I don't want to have to find this man and burn his house down. Cyber Shadow was another that did great with the style, though the Messenger is better.

[@giacomogiliberti2673]

The dragon fight looks exactly the same as a dragon fight that was present in an old ninja turtles game for the gba, it seems wiered to me that such a niece and forgotten game gets referenced so I think that the ninja turtles game itself made the dragon copying/referencing another more influential game that I don't know because I know very little about classic platform games, either way it's really cool seeing a part of my gaming childhood almost litteraly brought over to a new game As a sidenote this game looks amazing even tho I have never heard about it, thank you "man that compares games with doom eternal for a living" for letting me discover this game

[@ronipletikosa]

the messenger future and present mechanic is literally the titanfall 2 timehshifting device except here its the point of the game!

[@netslamders6803]

My man really just dropped a celeste, messenger and ghostrunner review while also being a doom eternal content creator, all of which being in my top 5 games

[@Voidling242]

What's number 5

[@netslamders6803]

Probably tied between super metroid and hollow knight

[@feivong7712]

New game + after beat main game. Demon revive you at cost of 50 crystal. If less - game over. More similar to old times.

[@stevekjr9563]

Did we live in the same house growing up? TMNT and Ghostbusters were both brutally hard and unclear.

[@AaronPaden]

I play a lot of retro games myself so as something in that scene I don't really agree that those games aren't fun to play today or that a new game necessarily has to bring in brand new mechanics to be fun. But you do bring up a point that I want to restate with my added perspective as a retrogamer. Nostalgia isn't enough. It doesn't make a mediocre game good. It definitely isn't enough to sustain a hobby as a retrogamer. My favorite example here is Goldeneye. People love to say - reductively - that the game "aged badly", but really it's the same game that it always was. It always had awkward controls and a terrible framerate. The thing that gave it value was it enable you to have great memories of you and your friends sitting around the couch playing the game and laughing at the absurdity of it. And you can't get that exact situation back today. I'm not particularly fond of the way we commonly look critically at old games today. This historical perspective where we talk about the value of nostalgia is just reductive too handwavy to be useful in a serious analysis. It's better IMO to either critique the game for what it actually is or - if you insist on talking about the game from a historical perspective it's better to go into detail about what has changed in ourselves and our society to change our perspective on the game today.

[@sneakyking]

The game isnt doom eternal Mayo "welcome to die"

[@wasistdustin]

while i understand your gripes with the metroidvania twist, I took a huge deal of enjoyment out of that section. I love Metroidvanias in general so it's no big suprise, but running through everything again, switching between past and future, seeing what I have missed and overall steadily getting better at the game felt really really good and rewarding. Probably a 10/10 for me, I will definetly try NG+ soon

[@CBGog]

As a big metroid fan, I actually share your opinion here. I liked the messenger till the 2nd part by a lot more. Its a cool idea but idk it just felt like I started a new game with maps(that were once linear gauntlets) I'd already seen before. I got bored very quickly since the world design barely has any cool things to find and hardly felt like any meaningful progression was happening anymore. I was interested in the story but I became so bored of looking at the old levels again that I guess I just dropped the game. Nice review mayo! Glad to see you felt the same way! It really plays to the strengths of 2d platformers and not search action gameplay

[@kobarsos82]

Honestly, I kinda wish this meme stopped appearing all throughout the internet. Because yeah, its a meme at this point. Calling nostalghia something that is objectively very good in what it tries to accomplish as a game in a genre, while the game obviously has merits that make the pixel graphics irrelevant (and actually a charm of its own) and is at the end of a day a very enjoyable game is what matters the most. This is true for many games. The Nostalgia glasses has tired me very much as a discussion and it appears surrounding the reputation of so many games out there. Stop being jealous of what other people enjoy and just play what you like is the obvious answer. At this point the nostalghia statement is just "coping" for people that simply refuse to believe that a non-3d game can be amazing. Well guess what. It can be amazing. Graphics (pixel, 3d or whatever else) will always be irrelevant compared to pure gameplay and true love that some developers can give to their games. Its just how it is. Wish more people realized this. Cheers for the video, The Messenger and Celeste were indeed amazing surprises for me. Slay the Spire, Hades and Hollow knight even more. Indie scene is great these days. PS: Hopefully you checked the messenger dlc too. It was pretty cool as extra content.

[@grasshopper-ln9us]

They deff took a page from curse of the moon 1 & 2

[@Just__Garbage]

I do kinda agree with your take on Prodeus, it just did not grab me like the other throw back shooter. Its good, I like it but I think Civvie11's statement of being too much like DOOM is true. I had the same problem with Nightmare Reaper(but I'm still in ep 1 so i it ever ends and I get to ep 2 then it would probably get better)not because its too simple or too much like some other shooter, its just so repetitive level after level.

[@ermut5771]

Agree about Batman NES,it was awesome and I still have to finish it ;)

[@claudiosacchi3720]

Yes, finally someone who appreciates "solid linear progression"!!

[@wilsonmateo6346]

really loved this game, although like you say, i really did not like when they made that metroid vania change, not because it was bad, but it did not encoure exploration that much, many times i explored the levels on my own, just to find out, i cant keep going because i dont have that item (they never talked to you about) and it would be find, but since portals are so far in between, that i really dislike it, love your video mate, new follower

[@gwimbly519]

Im tired of people complaining you cant recover from a hit in the air in ninja gaiden. Its part of the difficulty ffs

[@j-sun3821]

I agree about the genre switch, I like metroidvanias but the backtracking isn't what makes it fun...I will say though I did still go through it and finish it and the ending was really something, would really recommend finishing it.

[@Firespike33]

I like Metroidvanias but I agree that this game got a lot less fun when it switched genres.

[@NimbleFinguz]

awesome video, I think I'm going to try it, thanks

[@rsolsjo]

Loved it. Played it on Game Pass earlier in the year, beat the entire game and then started the DLC.. and then it was removed from Game Pass so I was like.. ok, guess I'm done, whatever. 😂 But I'll probably go back and finish it out at some point.

[@vitaminali3831]

looks really nice

[@milkycannon444]

New mayo to watch while i work baybeee

[@rvg3250]

Super Metroid could be one of my favorite games ever made. But it was built from the ground-up to be an exploration based game. The messenger wasnt, it was an action platformer first and foremost, it should have stayed that way. The genre twist didn't ruin it for me, but I admit that it wasn't as good as it was when it was a linear game.

[@marijandesin8226]

Dude play "Cyber Shadow" Its amazing!

[@lHurtYourFeeIings]

If you are not playing the Metroidvania part of the game you are missing out. It is literally the best parts actually. Going back and forth between past and present and the story that it relates to was awesome. Also you are not playing the SAME levels, there are NEW levels. If you only play the first part that is only 10% of the game really. You missed out on 90% of the game... and the new levels you didn't even see.

[@pagb666]

As i said on stream... I was having A BLAST with The Messenger, but it was a bummer when it changed to a Metroidvania. So I stopped before I ended hating it.

[@captay7251]

GREAT VID Madman

[@deadshotdaiquiri8177]

You could say 2021 was a shit loop

[@justingoers]

Man. I was loving this game but I am also not a metroidvania fan and I quit within about 30 minutes of having to backtrack. It’s just not for me either. It’s still a great game. And I admit I should probably jump back in to make it to the DLC section. But opening up the map to backtracking was a personal bait and switch to me. It’s just not my thing.

[@N7Agent]

If you look at the upper left corner you can see his name Robocop or mayo which is funny

[@abstractdaddy1384]

I think at it's core, classic resident evil is a metroidvania. Resource management seems like the only major difference. I think if you take a metroidvania, add resource management and a horror theme, you have a survival horror. Am I missing something? What makes you like classic resident evil but not the metroidvania genre?

[@underthemayo]

The genre difference. The mood. The gameplay. Survival horror is not just the backtracking exploration based map. It's also avoidancd of combat in favor of resource hording, tight inventory management and decision making, planning, riddles and puzzles. It's a slower mood that for me compliments the experience of exploring the map. In metroidvania games they tend to have a faster forward drive and more of an action feel to them, and that makes me want to continue forward at a fast pace instead of stopping to look at my map and figure out where I'm supposed to go.

[@abstractdaddy1384]

@@underthemayo Good metroidvanias have planning and puzzles as well, but I concede the other points. I like what you said about how slower gameplay compliments a game with exploration. Anyway thanks for the reply. Also, I'm getting doom eternal soon because of your commentary! Thanks Also also, shameless game suggestion, play Cave Story.

[@civilwarfare101]

You played Tormented Souls yet? Wondering what you think.

[@Cimlite]

You were lucky. "Ghostbusters" built character. 😉

[@underthemayo]

I don't think I ever made it higher than floor 8.

[@Cimlite]

@@underthemayo In that case, I take it back. 😋

[@noone36101]

look good.gonna try it soon

[@Deunstephe]

You should check out the action platformer Valfaris. It's not a metroidvania, it's push-forward and punishing with a sick artstyle and soundtrack and really wants you to get good at its systems.

[@scolioreset]

I think there's a difference a "Metroidvania" and a "good Metroidvania" in design. It's like putting exploration in a Mario game: it's not fun every single time (looking at Mario Odyssey even if the initial journey or odyssey is wonderful). I understand your point of view on the exploration-action genre. Even I don't like certain games that takes the Metroid formula and tries to do its own thing. I can't bring myself to play more of Shadow Complex. The biggest offender for me is Axiom Verge. Perhaps one of the most pretentious takes. AV2 will go down as one of the worst I played because it is exceptionally archaic, aggressive and it stops you more often but not for the map: you have to do weird combinations of buttons to access certain items. The map is awful because it drops the gridstyle for a complete map with background where you can't even see what is a platform or not. Either you go for a grid or you make the map clear and precise, Tom Happ didn't do anything. Hollow Knight and Ori did the genre justice. Dare I say Blasphemous and Salt & Sanctuary understood the exploration aspect to a degree. In any case you wonder: Metroid Prime is my favorite game of all-time. Now that I know the twist for The Messenger, I'm not looking forward to it. As a linear action platformer, it has some of the best controls since Shovel Knight and Celeste and I'll give Sabotage a lot of credit for that.

[@serhantaskn1985]

You should try shovel knight.

[@davidmcbride5357]

What you really need is megaman x and megaman zero sereis they are diffrent from every platformer they have 8 linear levels you can chose from.there is very fast movement and craetive upgrade system. I reccemend you try it out the first x triology is pretty good and master price.

[@dragoneye6229]

I'm still stuck on the "vania" part of this genre. It's not even Castlevania that made level ups in a platformer popular and it only tried it with SOTN because another series made it popular. Also despite my love of Metroid style gameplay and even KickMaster style gameplay I did not enjoy The Messenger switching genre. Yeah I'm not dropping the title of the series that made level up platformers big, you are either a real gaming aficionado or a punk who regurgitates what is said by others to fit in. I will say it's not even an obscure title, in fact it's so common it will make you facepalm at your own idiocy when you realize it, it's a series that is STILL popular today even and a recent title despite not being a platformer used the RPG lite elements.

[@Thenormal880]

ohh this is really intresting i might play it

[@erttttt]

What's the game at 1:44?

[@krakan4566]

If you're looking for more indie games, I recommend Terraria.

[@genegideon6705]

I ended up not liking this game in the end. I was really loving the first 2-3 hours and then the genre change completely kills it. The platforming and combat isn’t complex enough to justify all the repeated areas, almost nothing changes during backtracking, and it is just way too long. The game also has other things I don’t like. Why are so many basic things locked behind upgrades? Why are there so few offensive options? The entire gimmick of “hit something in midair to gain another jump” isn’t even unique; Shinobi did this on PS2 years ago, and that game has much more demanding combat.

[@aeonxx]

I think you nailed it. This game overstayed its welcome and just became tedious. It started out pretty strong but really left me disappointed. Cyber Shadow was more of what I was looking for.

[@akramrabaa943]

Not watching till I get the game and love it without outside interference. Not letting you ruin this for me yet lmao

[@casthedemon]

I did not like Streets of Rage 3 tbh. It felt clunky and the lack of a block or parry button just made it unplayable for me.

[@underthemayo]

Yeah if you want block parry gameplay, beatem ups are not the genre for you. Except MAYBE Final Vendetta. And i'd recommend streets of rage 4 over 3. It's not clunky at all, lots of animation canceling. You specials and i-frame grabs are you defense. It's a different kind of game.

[@casthedemon]

@@underthemayo many beat em ups have block. It's kind of a normal feature. Pretty simple to put in too. Streets of red, power rangers, crossing souls, dragons crown pro, Scott Pilgrim, etc. They're all far better than Streets of Rage. Which is overrated. I Uninstaller that GA after I beat the first boss once I figured out how boring it was and how little it did to further the genre.

[@1JLegend]

If you still have an itch for platformers try Psychonauts 2.

[@RAZKEN.]

Thank you for making these vids! I had no idea that new Ninja Gaiden 2D-like games even existed. Def gonna check it out. Edit. Oh no.... my hype was up there until you mentioned the word that I'm allergic to... "MetroidVania". Oh well, guess i'm trying it cuz of the Ninja Gaiden gameplay anyway.

[@underthemayo]

It's worth it.

[@morkgin2459]

Try Cyber Shadow after that

[@MrWhygodwhy]

I love the metroidvania genre and this is one of the worst examples of it. Absolute chore to get through.

[@poposterous236]

Oh man, The Messenger. Real mixed feelings on this one. On one hand, the gameplay is almost the superior version of Shinobi, Ninja Gaiden etc. with real fluidity and reasonable difficulty. On the other hand, every word of text in this story made me want to kill someone. The writing is unbearably 'clever'. It breaks the fourth wall so often it stops being fun and you begin to hate the concept entirely. I cringed so hard with every dialogue box that I had to have 3 vertebrae removed.

[@underthemayo]

Thankfully if you feel that way the story moments are brief, occasional, and largely skippable.

[@poposterous236]

@@underthemayo The music more than makes up for it. This video really made me want to play this game again. Can't wait for your Robocop review.

[@balmain2496]

The Messenger is a modern masterpiece. I can definitely understand the complaints for the metroidvania aspect but for me, it was a perfect 10/10 and one of the best games I’ve ever played.

[@mac1bc]

I agree. I had a blast, even when it changed to 16-bit

[@Maskeroff.]

TRUE

[@maiwei]

I think people over-exaggerate the tediousness of the backtracking. Sure, it can be annoying having to figure out the prophecies and traversing through old areas, but you also get plenty of new areas along with the backtracking, so it's not all that bad. To each their own, though.

[@SolidSnake240]

​@@maiweiYea, backtracking is just a part of the genre. I don't mind it if they also throw in new stuff as well.

[@Lolotrixx]

I can totally agree that the Metroidvania part of the Messenger isn’t very fun, and I am someone who loves the genre. I put a 100+ hours into Hollow Knight and I played most of the Metroid series. The main issue is that these levels are designed for linear platforming and not exploration. And Navigation in a platformer isn’t terribly fun if you need to stop your momentum every few screens to look for a potential hidden path. The fun of Metroidvania is uncovering a giant interconnected map and its secrets, eventually knowing your environment well enough so you can seamlessly navigate through it with the new abilities you collected. The Messengers levels are mostly just linear corridors from left to right with the occasional vertical segment thrown in. It becomes very boring walking through the same linear tube 10 times. I like the game well enough, but they either should have cut that segment entirely or made a new area that supports exploration.

[@nesoukkefka1741]

IMO the biggest issue, and at the same time inconsistancy, is the lack of Teleporting spot, which is a shame caue this could have been easily fix as each level has about 3 Shopkeeper portals, why these portals aren't teleporting spot ? (weither by default or through an upgrade) this would have already significantly reduce the amount of back tracking in the older levels and this is such an obvious and easy fix instead of having only 1 portal per Level, doesn't change that the structure is indeed for linear plateforming and not intended for exploration, but this would have make less annoying. I still enjoy the game tough, the annoyance is mainly at the beginning of the Metroidvania section where you have to back track, cause when you found a new level however it's back to being a linear plateformer and you can complete each of the new level in one go with no back track needed, it's really the first levels that have this issue.

[@DaMorg3]

I am about 3 hrs past the transition to Metroidvania. All in all, the game has been great. However, your comment is well said, and I agree wholeheartedly. The relatively limited ability to move from checkpoint to checkpoint (or at least shop gate checkpoint to shop gate checkpoint) gets old very fast. There is not doubt a good reason for this, which is that they WANT you to have to re-explore to find all the power stones and music notes, but after already having uncovered the whole map and found all the traversal upgrades, it just starts to grate.

[@Beaut2013]

The bgm really helps you explore the game. I don't know if you beat it, but beating it unlocks items that let you skip portions of the exploration parts to try to speed run the game. You also get jukebox mode that will let you choose whatever track from the bgm you want while you play. The dlc also offers you a mode that will take that demon away that resurrects you for money for a shadow mode that lets you deal something like 4 times the damage. However like in older games if you die, you are gone.

[@pelieskola5708]

I am a huge metroidvania fan, but I didn't actually like the genre change. Just like you I found myself having less fun with this game after the twist. I haven't even finished it yet actually. I Feel like the mechanics and abilities of this game just fit a linear game much more.

[@underthemayo]

Big agree here.

[@Allen.Christian]

Yeah, huge Metroidvania fan here as well. Haven't reached the twist in The Messenger, but I'm genuinely not looking forward to it. It's so good at what it's already doing, I have idea why they'd want to shift it.

[@theodorealenas3171]

I dislike DmC 3 because it switches between complex combat and complex level design, in a similar way. I prefer Hollow Knight for the pure levels, DmC 5 for the pure combat and Doom 2 1996 for fusing combat and level in one. But full on combat and full on level is ew. It's pointless. I said it in my stem review of DmC 3 and people loved me if you think upside down.

[@Jose-se9pu]

I was hooked to this game for two days straight until the "twist"...never finished it, I completely lost interest in it.

[@underthemayo]

@@Jose-se9pu It's honestly not surprisingly how many people feel this way. Still, I do applaud the twist. It's a bold decision and if you're into that thing it must be a dream come true.

[@mattmurphy2755]

I absolutely love this game, I put tons of hours into it. The music is really catchy as well, it really got stuck in head.

[@eternalnerd29149]

I'm one of the ones who loved when The Messenger switched to a Metroidvania, and seriously this is one of my favorite games at this point. Kudos to you for not letting the genre change taint your entire review, I understand "search action" games aren't for everyone, it was cool to hear a glowing review from someone who doesn't enjoy the genre like I do. Keep doin your thing Mayo!

[@Densiozo]

I loved the switching. It felt like big twist for me. I was like damn it's not over. I loved every part of it. The switch was nice, big surprise

[@Maskeroff.]

Big agree

[@moony1289]

I loved The Messenger! I need to play it again and then try the dlc. Everyone was raving about Celeste the year it came out, but for me The Messenger was better than Celeste that year...

[@raptyrn1290]

Mayo, if you enjoy platformers, I can't recommend Metroid Dread enough. I _really_ think you'd enjoy it. The movement feels outstanding. And the game in general really lives up to the "Dread" subtitle, from the music right down to the core gameplay concepts. Certain areas use fog and film grain to heighten the tension. It's superb!

[@unidentified2026]

My favorite part about the game was the grapple hook, I mean rope dart. It felt incredible to use all through out the game. On a different note, I'm guessing you aren't gonna try hollow knight then. After all it's a metroidvania with influence from dark souls. Must sound like a nightmare.

[@RacingSnails64]

I'm not sure how he'd feel about Hollow Knight. Its combat is very fast and brutal and demands mastery and mobility, it's not slow and weighty like Dark Souls. Its similarities are more in lore and presentation and collecting your money from where you previously died. The thing that'd keep him from liking it is probably all the running all over the huge open map. He said he likes linear games, which I can totally get. HK is much more organically and openly designed though, not just repurposing linear areas. I'd love to see him give it a shot!

[@aaryannsethi]

The biggest issue in this game I feel like, isn't the sudden genre shift even. It's the back tracking. I'd be fine with back tracking through an area maybe once for a quest but you need to back track through areas multiple times in some cases which gets somewhat boring eventually. It's a bit of a shame considering that there's still other new areas, gags and overall fun to be had, but it's dragged down by the back tracking. I know it's technically supposed to be the point of a metroidvania but I feel like they should have added more teleportation points in some areas. However, the joy I get from literally everything else in this game is enough that I don't ever mind it too much. But, I know this is still a MAJOR issue of this game.

[@onceyougozach2607]

Yeah it's pretty well known that this game fell off in the 2nd half. It's still worth playing though and I think the merchant dialogue was hilarious

[@PlayStaySherwin]

If you want something similar to this that's linear the the whole way through, try Cyber Shadow. It's probably my favorite game all year, came out in January, and nobody is talking about it. It's even on game pass.

[@aeonxx]

Cyber Shadow was way more enjoyable than The Messenger. It's a tighter game that doesn't waste your time and I prefer the gritty style over the silly and lame jokes in The Messenger.

[@SeelenPixel]

The problem isn't the genre change. The problem is the world structure not being optimized for a metroidvania exploration game. All the levels are in a linear path so the exploration part is limited to a horizontal world. That gets really repetitive. They should have scrambled the levels in to a new order which also includes vertical levels and paths. But thats a lot of work for a mid-game twist. So I understand why they did not do it.

[@frozezone2947]

that's a retarded take on side scrolling platforming games

[@Luca-pb4dc]

@@frozezone2947 Hes talking about in the middle of the game when it becomes a metroidvania. The levels are great for a sidescroller but dont work for a metroidvania, because your just bactracking through the same levels you've already played with no branching paths.

[@mac1bc]

I don't mind it still being a bit linear halfway. Makes it easier to get through the maps.

[@starbournehero771]

Also the new levels are basically just tougher versions of the levels, with some secrets thrown in, and new harder levels! You do get some back tracking needed with back door connections to help out, but if you stay vigilant, you reduce the old stuff you pass through

[@AKblackandredYT]

I'm really fascinated by your opinions on game systems and challenge. It's definitely more fun if a game's difficulty is linked to mastery of mechanics and systems instead of just hit spongey combat.

[@pradeepdungdung4379]

I get where you're coming from I'm not a fan of metroidvania style Castlevania games I prefer classic linear Castlevania games over that

[@BoTheJo]

The game is amazing! I probably have 60 hours in it. It's in my top 10 games ever

[@Maskeroff.]

Same! 💯

[@RacingSnails64]

Oh, that title had me worried. Nice video! I've heard some bad criticism of Messenger before, but you actually made it sound pretty appealing! I'll be looking more into it now.

[@Caliboyjosh10]

This is why you're great Mayo, you talk about a game and compare it, dissect it and even if you don't enjoy it all or even finish it, you still recommend it, if it's fresh and fun even for a few hours. Also I was one that loved the Metroid genre change :)

[@raulrojas9253]

The messenger Kick ass, as for the Metroidvania thing....ok mayo is fine.

[@damiancrowley569]

Thanks for the game recommendation. Have you played Blasphemous?

[@imperialphoenix1229]

I 99%ed the messanger, I only ever didn't finish "the deal" mode. No respawns in a platformer with instakill hazards is almost impossible, but damn if it isn't fun to try

[@raulrojas9253]

Is very easy actually just back up ur save file before attempts.

[@BoTheJo]

The deal mode is tough the most dangerous part of are spikes, falls, and being crushed to death

[@imperialphoenix1229]

@@raulrojas9253 it literally wipes the save on death wym

[@PanMan47]

This game sounds great, I’m surprised I didn’t hear about it earlier

[@GamingMafia_id]

You need to try Hollow Knight :)

[@Saturn2888]

Having an old game meeting todays standards is why I avoid these throwback games. I agree, I need more than just punch and kick now.

[@mohamad.h4300]

hey mayo please play hollow knight . it's the best game i have ever played. i want you to experience it and give your thoughts on it👍

[@nixot1216]

finished this a while back, fantastic game. I agree the metroidvania stuff felt tedious, but man...the music, characters and art styles were great

[@cookieman8548]

Yeah

[@BHHProductions]

Metroid Dread is the only game that has come out in 2021 that I like. Shame

[@guybrushthreepwood8174]

I highly recommend Katana Zero to anyone who likes these type of games.

[@cheater00]

I agree about one thing and disagree about another. I agree about the metroidvania thing. Personally I like metroidvanias. I finished Axiom Verge on my Wii U back when it came out and I loved it. But when Messenger changed to Metroidvania I was like "uhhh so what do I do next". I tried using the hints system (talking to the shop keeper), but that didn't help, and I kinda didn't feel like braining it out with a walkthrough at the time because it was a stressful time in my life. I fully disagree about what you said around minute 9. You said that high difficulty was "how you got your money's worth" in 8-bit and 16-bit games. That's patently not true. It's been documented beyond any doubt that companies in the US heightened the difficulty of games because they were making mad money off of rentals, and of course if the game was difficult (or even impossible) to beat, you would rent it for way longer. It marred many games and made them terrible to play because of outright unfair difficulty. I feel like you need to revisit what you believe about this aspect.

[@onceyougozach2607]

What you're saying doesn't really disagree with he was saying

[@cheater00]

@@onceyougozach2607 it does

[@onceyougozach2607]

@@cheater00 nah it doesn't

[@bruhder5854]

On a side note, have you looked into "it takes two"? If you haven't, it's definitely one I'd say you should look into.

[@WickedKillaYT]

6:55 "I've been singing this stuff for days" Umm.. singing? Lol

[@MrJanus19]

got this game as soon it released. it was amazing. also didn't like the backtracking in the second part, but the first part of the game was so amazing that i felt very satisfied

[@tincturdiode]

Holy shit Mayo talking about my favorite game

[@DontJinxItYet]

i feel like you'd love axiom verge

[@onehundredpercentboyband]

Yep! Loved The Messenger!

[@chuckingflem]

マヨネーズさん。

[@SuperfluousMoniker]

As someone who doesn't exactly love Metroidvanias but likes the good ones well enough, I felt the same way about the genre shift. It really hurts the game's pace. In fact I find myself in complete agreement with pretty much everything you've said about the game. I was a bit more annoyed at the amount of 'meta' in the story than you seemed to be, I'd say. There was good writing in there and it got some chuckles out of me, but it went a bit too far for my taste.

[@MinecraftMartin]

The game starts off great, but when you make me traverse old obstacle courses, give me a skill to remove the tedium. This is usually a pure double jump, high jump, etc. About 2 hours in, it just got incredibly tedius. Then you see you're only 20% of the way into the game and you have most of your abilities ... bleh no thanks. Tried twice and just can't keep my intetest. Great game, but just not my type.

[@ilijapajkanovic5784]

47 times asking mayo to talk about Serious Sam

[@MrWhygodwhy]

Metroidvania is probably my favorite genre, and I will say, you probably didn't enjoy the metroidvania section of this game because it was atrociously done. The extent of mandatory and likely backtracking through these parts is exhausting, and often sends you to parts of the map having you think "do I really need to backtrack all the way there?" Yes, except later. You wasted two trips now. Terrible section that reduced my thoughts on this game more than I care to admit.