The Most Important Update Commentary - Last Oasis SEASON 5

Hi everyone, I know I'm probably taking the unpopular opinion here, but it's something I've noticed getting put further and further on the back burner for what I think is an essential part of the game. Please try to keep things civil in the comments on this one but if you have to call me terrible names I understand :)
Intro Animation by Fargo.

[@tobytaylor184]

Season one was so fun, the huge PVP fights were epic

[@SkyKevin]

I loved those fights. A lot of them came from the control over areas and "owning" the tile. I think now since base raiding isn't enabled, anyone can own the tile just by having a bunch of bases around that they can hide in without any need for actually defending them. Thus no PVP happens because anyone that comes to your area with a war walker you just sit inside and wait till they're gone...

[@brant2673]

The event system for the rarity maps will be different from the current event system we have seen in previous seasons. Devs have said it a few times in LO discord.

[@SkyKevin]

Different but by virtue of it being a temporary tile with an associated timer it will likely be the same outcome. Especially if you only need to jump through 1 tile to get to the event tile, most people will just use throwaway walkers that they can jump off and escape on foot.

[@syngularity3253]

On a serious note I agree with Sky here but I think we need a higher tier reinforced base piece after med wood before they enable base raiding. Maybe dropping from the fortress camps?

[@SkyKevin]

TRUE it would be great if they had a lot more spread in armor and HP for the higher tier pieces. I'm fine with a cement base piece requiring a lot of ammo to take down because of the resource costs associated with them. As it stands with raiding not being enabled, every base I see is made of a pile of sticks because the upkeep and build costs of hardwood are just so much greater.

[@artificialcontent3240]

Tbh you are right, I thought the event tiles would still be way better than what's going on now. But your concerns are correct, and your solution is even smarter. DEVS PLEASE WATCH THIS AND CONSIDER IT

[@SkyKevin]

If only one day I could go into the backend of their Unreal project files and see how it all works...

[@artificialcontent3240]

@@SkyKevin we need to get this video seen by the devs dude. Such an easy, simple and big brain solution. If anything they could just test it while they do what they want in the background and see how it goes, its literally enabling 1 mechanic thats already should be in the game, and will be in the game eventually anyways.... Cmon Donkey Crew your game needs this.

[@SkyKevin]

@@artificialcontent3240 It was supposed to be added on week 1 of the release, I think the meta wouldn't have gone in the direction that it did if they had done it earlier but they were too caught up with fixing the immediate issues of player feedback.

[@merlark]

I would agree, this was an odd oversight to prevent base damage on pvp tiles. Not sure if it would have the effect SK is looking for but living on legendary tiles is a bit silly though traveling right now is more work than it needs to be. Hopefully bases will change once they work out the travel system.

[@SkyKevin]

Yea, exactly, I think they're trying to fix one thing by adding a direct solution rather than getting to the root cause of the problem. With travel I think it really just comes down to the fact that they are treating the PVP tiles just LIKE pve given you have an invincible base to run away in and store your walker. It provides instant access to anything you need on the tile thus giving more presence to the clans there trying to keep control of it. If that base could be raided, I would guarantee you'll have clans fighting each other any time a large base is established on those tiles just for the sake of wiping them off and reducing that area of influence.

[@superflygonman]

Honestly a great idea, I hope they take this course of action but I doubt they will....

[@SkyKevin]

We can only hope! I know it will take some rebalancing, but honestly they don't have any data on base raiding yet to go off of so I feel like by enabling it now, they can iterate off of that but no matter the case, however long they wait to enable it, the longer we'll be from an actually balanced system because they haven't even given it a try yet.

[@remyspierings9848]

I actually didn't know bases were protected until a few days ago. Couldn't understand why all those solos/small groups were that insane to build on pvp tiles! With the size of bases you need to build, you can't really honeycomb them either:-). When it comes to the quality system I think this needs a mayor rework. There is no progression in the current quality system. In the olden days you started at quality 0 and slowly worked your way up as you got better tools. Now you basically just choose which quality you want to focus on. Even if you spend a lot of time building green equipment/tools, you still start from scratch when you want to focus on blue. You might as well jump to gold from the start if you can take on the critters. It makes the low quality grind pointless. And to make matters worse, by locking high quality stuff behind tougher PvE opponents, they are effectively locking small clans and solos out of high quality gear. This means that if a solo encounters a clan, not only will he/she be outnumbered, but his/her opponents will deal twice as much damage and suffer half the damage. How is that more balanced?

[@slaytronic]

I honestly don't give a shit about all the drama me and my friends have been having a blast in the game on our own dedicated server

[@SkyKevin]

Here's the thing, If we were to have base raiding enabled, the difficulty of the PVP Gold tiles would go up drastically given how far away it is from any safe zones. If they just made this one change, you wouldn't see as many people with Gold quality tools, weapons armor etc. Because it would be just as difficult for the large clans to travel there and farm it as it is for you as a player right now. If you think about it in terms of distance, there's a natural difficulty curve to being 3 tiles away from ANY safety rather than being in a green tile with only a single portal away. With the gold tile right now you can simply build a base and store your walker nearby if an enemy comes zooming into your tile. This is a safety for EVERYONE but utilized better by the larger clans who generally hold control of a single tile whenever they can. If you split that up, then suddenly you can hang out on your green or blue tile and kill any clans that try traveling through because it'll be a daily trip for them to take. Think of it like creating the silk road and the further down the line you go the more danger but the more rarity. But what's to stop someone from coming back on that road only to get raided and now you suddenly have all the resources they just farmed up.

[@SkemmiesGaming]

I tried to do these kind of videos in S4 & i get your viewpoint 100%. I just hope for you that S5 will turn out to be different than all of the other seasons. You'll get a lot of hate from bigger clans surrounding these topics, don't let it get you down like it did for me. Take a break if you need it, but don't show weakness. I actually also completely agree with what you said in the video & i probably would have said the same thing regarding the playerbase and or zergs / what has been said in the discord. I really hope that it turns out for the better.

[@SkyKevin]

Me too, this is kinda the place I can give an honest 3rd party opinion where people can look at the facts objectively and decide for themselves. I don't need anyone to staunchly agree with me but at the very least see the point of view from a typical player without any hidden motives.

[@solartrix]

Another thought for ya... Enabling base raiding won't do anything to solve the Big Clan vs. Small Clan or Solos problem. The bigger clans to move their bases to a PVE tile. They will set out for a PVP tile en mass and just zerg that tile until they're done for the night and then go back to the PVE tile and put their stuff away safely. So during that time the small clans and solos are still locked out of any of the high tier loot. All you've done is add some travel time to the big clan's schedule. That's it.

[@SkyKevin]

It's hard to say now that they're changing the tile quality. But originally large clans wouldn't do that because they would have to start on the 6 cap tiles and pick others up along the way as they're going through the smaller cap servers. That would be the time you would hit them as a small group. Not on the final legendary tile but on one of the maps before that.

[@TimelessSingularity]

I get the distinct impression that the quality event tile maps are a lazy way of introducing hard tile maps without the need for quality differences. i.e. no separate clay, lava, or spire maps with blue, green,or gold stuff on the world map

[@SkyKevin]

Honestly, I think they're trying to go to a lot of effort to make these event tiles but it'll end up just like the city maps or the iron tile where you just park a crumby walker and do everything by running around on foot.

[@solartrix]

Only problem with the travel system is that eventually big clans will set up gate camps just like Eve Online. The solo and small clan players will be shut out of the best maps.

[@SkyKevin]

I'm not familiar with Eve online but isn't that the reason they introduced the rotating sandstorm gates in the first place so that you can move onto the map from multiple sizes of walker gates in many different directions? It would be difficult to watch all of them right?

[@robertkonig177]

I still play s4 today. i tried s5 but i don't have time to keep the base up. I'm sometimes on the road for 1-2 weeks because of my work. I want the save logout and the desert camp back.

[@SkyKevin]

There are still ways you can do that albeit a lot more difficult. I would consider lowering your base upkeep to more sustainable levels. You can max out a maintenance chest to allow for 10 days of resources if you build it the right way.

[@robertkonig177]

@@SkyKevin i dont want to Play Just for maintain my Base

[@SkyKevin]

@@robertkonig177 Right, but if you want to maintain your walkers and everything you can get to a point where a base can maintain your walker and resources for over 2 weeks as long as there are resources inside.

[@eviljoe9548]

The cost is like 100-200 wood and fiber a day for a one walker base it's not even that bad you can grind 2weeks in less then 20 minutes

[@RobertoRafaf]

The solution to quality is to reset all quality to white and to change the system completely. Base raiding should be enabled too.

[@SkyKevin]

I'm fine with a great reset if they deem it necessary but I think they can work on balancing quality once the PVP tiles no longer have a huge presence of players due to the invulnerable bases being on them.

[@Kianwan]

Really think there should be "sand" tiles between all the oasis tiles that you would have to travel through .. that are all pvp .. so that if you go from a pve tile towards a valuable tile, you have to go through tons of pvp zones to get there .. costing water and time, and giving the opportunity for small "pirate" teams to catch a fat cow.

[@samos343guiltyspark]

That'll still suck for solo players the most. Clans will be fine, and will likely hunt after Solo's just for sport.

[@nobodycares6633]

We got season 4 server back up.

[@samos343guiltyspark]

Also make a rule that anyone belonging to a large clan can't build in PVE

[@Grimganker]

the kenny smasher strikes again

[@SkyKevin]

Kenny got smashed!

[@biggs7109]

@@SkyKevin ez clap

[@khadrogo4797]

Man Sky makes such a valid point here....his idea here is a great one, plus without really having to reinvent the wheel

[@SkyKevin]

I always go the route of simplicity and try to put myself in the mind space of what's the easiest most effective solution for the developers.

[@Bitt3rh0lz]

I dont think so, his arguments are disregarding the reality of what weve seen in previous seasons and what we see on other games like LO. We had all of this in previous seasons already and the behaviour of people wont change away from what it was like then.

[@sirparzival3988]

I absolutely agree

[@monarch1352]

S4 was a blast as that was when me and my friends got into the game. However seeing the game in it's current state makes me fucking depressed. I loved the nomadic style of the game, making water on the go, being able to pack structures, and seriously considering what to take with us. Now the new season just slowed the game, making it so abyssmally boring. I feel like if they addded like a seperate gamemode with feature from older seasons + nomadic lifestyle, the game would massively improve.

[@SkyKevin]

Personally, I would rather not have to build a base and just live off of a walker as well. But unfortunately, the risk vs reward is too difficult to balance when that's the case. They started out in season 1 thinking that would be a good idea with walkers like the schmetterling where you basically live off of it, but then there's the issue where when you are defeated you lose absolutely everything with no way of really coming back from it. They had the lobby system, then stone bases, and now PVE areas.

[@odiwahn]

I keep saying they need Player and NPC shipment Contracts, where you get cargo from a trade hub on one tile and have to move it to another. It would give players another reason to be out and about and potentially in dangerous areas. The current build 50 water bottles and bring it to trade hub is hardly a quest when you spend most of it in your base building the garbage to begin with. Sort of off topic but ya, bring raiding back and no rare pve tiles -.-

[@SkyKevin]

Yea, they're losing the mentality of Risk vs Reward in an effort to preserve the PVE playerbase. I think over time that'll cheapen the overall experience and players won't have anything to work towards in the end.

[@Izawwlgood]

What's the difference between a shipment contract and a delivery mission (move thing from a to b)? The games current quest system is silly, and flots are still a meaningless afterthought, but we don't need to wrap it up in a different name.

[@odiwahn]

@@Izawwlgood One difference I already mentioned is you're not sitting in base making anything. You simply pick up a contract and pay a collateral to deliver cargo to another Trade station (possibly within a time frame). If they had Trade stations on PvP tiles this could have larger payouts because you run the risk of losing the cargo. The whole system has ppl moving from one tile to another. Not simply building in base and delivering to the station on the same tile. It's more than just a name change and I never said it should be the only type of quest, cargo runs should be one of several types of quests including hunting quests.

[@Izawwlgood]

@@odiwahn there were hunting quests in previous seasons weren't there? My point is delivering from a to b is a quest that was in previous seasons. You would pick up a package from one trade station, and bring it to another. I think modern MMOs can do better with quests. LO doesn't have any market to speak of, but maybe schematics will increase trade. I doubt it, given what the player base is after. LO is not played by people who like eve and Albion.

[@odiwahn]

@@Izawwlgood I mean I played eve seriously for a few years. Lived in Null, had a pos in a wh and manufactured boosters and smuggled them into hisec (mostly as a solo). Eve is kind of the inspiration behind the cargo quest idea and I think a lot of other systems could be carried over. I agree LO has no economy because it lacks the mechanics in place to sustain one and the playerbase to see any sort of longevity in that regard. I also think modern mmos could do better with quests. However, I think that's sort of ambitions for LO's Dev team but I do think improvements on what we have seen could be within the realm of possibility but I won't hold my breath.

[@seanrunyan8928]

100% moot point now given the new rarity tile system being introduced. But, it was a good idea at the time it was made.

[@SkyKevin]

well I think I still have a good point about the necessity of distance, not including the PVE event rarity tiles, the PVP ones will be only 1 jump away so most players will just opt to use a crappy walker they don't care about in those tiles rather than the main one they use.

[@krvfire8910]

Not going to lie I was hoping for this pvp bases being raidable, I was with 4 of my 6 man clan we were shooting at a bas for hours on pvp wasted 2k fire darts on it and nothing we were so disappointed. I just hope they allow pvp raiding

[@SkyKevin]

Me too. If I need somewhere to hide my base I'll just go to the PVE tiles. I want the PVP tiles to have some risk associated with being there.

[@mr.vvilson1243]

Its a good idea.

[@SkyKevin]

Agreed!

[@mr.vvilson1243]

The medium and hard tiles were to be raided and bases in the cradle was in one of the posts before release.

[@piratier4246]

I'm in a dead server and its got a few dead camps and walkers

[@Angelusfeliciano]

One moment…. You tell me if I Build a Base on the PVP map… they can steal nothing from me? Base don’t receive dmg? 😮

[@Izawwlgood]

I agree with everything you're saying. I hope they make some addl updates to all the current systems (permanent storage, a way to permanently learn more things, etc), but overall I think the S5 direction is a good one. I feel bad for the devs. The player base is still awful.

[@SkyKevin]

Yea, they're taking everything into account and improving in an iterative process that feels a lot more sustainable than before!

[@XxTheodasxX]

@@SkyKevin What is your perspective now that PvP event tiles and portals are being introduced in addition to base raiding? Seems like the last half of the points made in the video are moot considering these changes happening in parallel.

[@Isuptonogood]

I was against your opinion until i heard your argument, i completely agree with you now.

[@SkyKevin]

I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I'm glad I can showcase my reasons for why these changes need to take place with actual clear-cut examples.

[@RichyN25]

Wait, Kevin, you are with Boog? I wonder if I've ever fought you lol, I've fought Kenny before

[@SkyKevin]

I've moved around a lot this season but yes most likely!

[@Izawwlgood]

It's amazing how hilariously infamous kenny is.

[@dafb2609]

because theres no lasting progression, having your base raided would pretty much end your wipe.

[@SkyKevin]

But your base can't get raided on the PVE tiles.

[@dafb2609]

@@SkyKevin but then you have to waist loads of time travelling teice a day

[@SkyKevin]

@@dafb2609 It's not really that bad, we jumped from a legendary tile to a PVE tile in 1 jump last night. All our bases are going onto PVE tiles now that quality doesn't matter.

[@waffle8364]

Nope, they just needed to add pve only tiles and keep the burn. makes no sense at all

[@curtisfrantz7547]

I've personally dealt with those basement dwelling douches who go after solos and hit me and my friends taking everything we worked for. Loosing a dingey and a few chest and a big deal but having some no life Targeting weekend warriors and try to destroy and take everything they have. People don't want to spend a few months worth of there weekends be completely gone because some sweaty troll who plays all day everyday 0s everything you have. So I think they should just have like 1/3 full time pve only servers to farm, and then the other 2/3s be for full pvp. There should definitely be safe servers for building and farming. Noone wants to get together with a few friends spend 2 weeks farming to get into one walker battle and start over I wish more people would just full blown walker fight till someone lost take the stuff on there bodies and move one to the next fight. There would be way more battles if people were so afraid that one fight will cost them everything they have

[@SkyKevin]

Most people are getting over having the PVE servers as they're normal quality. There just needs to be risk/reward for when you're going out to the quality tiles to farm the good stuff.

[@FrozenHawkHunter]

So you think that the big clans won't over run everyone if they allow base raiding? I happen to like the nonpvp zones. True this season doesn't mesh with the overall story. We are supposed to be nomads grabbing what we can as we race the sun. It would make sense if the places to far ahead of the sun are uninhabitable due to very bad weather or something. I'm all for base raiding in pvp tiles. Let the big clans fight each other let the small ones if they want to do their own thing. But just letting all bases be raided will chase off those a lot of players. Besides before they open another can of worms they need to fix bugs.

[@SkyKevin]

I think we're on the same page, I never wanted to have base raiding on the PVE tiles - in fact, that was one of my arguments for why it should be allowed on the PVP tiles. I actually like that players have PVE tiles to play on and do whatever they like/need to. BUT if you want the higher quality stuff and to play the harder content, I feel like that's when PVP should be introduced because you always will have a choice of staying in PVE where it's safe or venturing out as long as you're willing to risk it for the higher quality rewards.

[@FrozenHawkHunter]

@@SkyKevin I do think you should either be allowed to pack up your base or refund all of your building supplies. No nomad culture would waste so much resources. I wouldn't be hard to do have schematics for packable gear. Most of the walkers have odd bits just hanging in them so why not put that shit to good use? Each walker could hold different things. Bring back the two base haulers but instead of the bigger one transforming have the back open up so you can pack garage walls in it. One thing I'd like to see is a auto driver or a NPX you can hire at the traders. Have the span of there contact be the time until the tile you find them on burns Also I'd love to see the traders used more or at least a few NPCs walking around. Maybe have the traders turn into two MEGA walker and walk out of the tile before the place burns down This game has potential I just don't want to see it turn out like Ark

[@sniper344]

If they enable base raiding without the ability to set offline timers, the last 500 guys playing quit :)

[@SkyKevin]

Or they just build their base in the PVE zones where there's a 24/7 offline protection timer?

[@sniper344]

@@SkyKevin if everyone lives on pve tiles that means even less content, what are the odds you are going to casually come across someone else?

[@SkyKevin]

@@sniper344 Depends on density (number of rare tiles available) depends on the routes you take, depends on the value of rare materials, depends on clan caps and incentives for using those pvp tiles. All things that will matter but could be adjusted pretty simply without having to create any new mechanics, just reorganization.

[@zhoutai117]

This doesn't work as the pve servers are 6 cap only so big clans are forced onto the big servers anyway, they couldn't live on pve if they even wanted to

[@SkyKevin]

most clans will just split themselves up on the pve servers and then venture out from there.

[@Funkiyy]

You will never be NOMADIC coming back to a base like all other base building games and to top that off you're only option is building a Square box lmao they lost their point of the game. I think there is far more issues with the state of it then just enabling base raiding just isn't a unique game like the lore states.

[@Bitt3rh0lz]

Lets face it, the nomadic part didnt work because it was poorly executed and doesnt fit this style of game. The majority of people simply doesnt have the time to log in every day and farm and move stuff around for 6 hours. Especially not when its forced. Nomadic behavior as a major design point is more suited to a game where you can play at your own pace and less suited for a game where the pace is dictated by anything and anyone but yourself.

[@SkyKevin]

I think you can be semi-nomadic at least in the sense that you move around for the duration of that day. If you have to travel through difficulties but then can travel back home at the end of the night (similar to the old logout system) I think thats a good thing. They just need some kind of distance necessary that will also be more fun than just driving through the sand.

[@SkyKevin]

True. Most of the time people wouldn't even bother moving their stuff because it got to be such a pain, so you would leave your walker logged off in the wall and let it travel automatically instead.

[@Bitt3rh0lz]

@@SkyKevin That isnt nomadic at all though, not even semi. Thats pretty much the definition of being Sessile. Basicly what you describe is early humans who have just started to settle in place and still supplement their needs through regular foraging and raiding (Sorry for being so technical). TBH, I think a true nomadic game would be very very hard to pull off in a competitive environment. Simply because it would be really really hard to prevent people from being stoneaged. Like, how do you prevent mass frustration in people if they have all their assets only semi-bound to a place for a short time and can be caught out with their pants completely down. To me, true nomadic gameplay would be best suited in an entirely cooperative setting, where the environment itself is your only danger. Like, take LO as it is now, but entirely COOP and with much greater environmental risks from weather, NPCs and resource scarcity, while also having a relatively short burn period. IMO that would work way better for truely nomadic gameplay.

[@SkyKevin]

@@Bitt3rh0lz possibly something they could add with the "Flotilla" being a thing one day.

[@domnikoli]

just bring back season 4 sans tincs. come play s4 on the modded server, its dope. full of changes devs should have made 2 years ago

[@SkyKevin]

I'll give the Classic server a try and we'll see how it is.

[@markking3755]

i say how you can fix pvp make it ware you can only pvp 1v1 no 1v x amount of them there are so a goup of player will not be able to gang up on one player if you have 10 players then you can only pvp a group of nother 10 player group and so one and if 1 player want to fight a group with moe players in it then you need to click on ok to except to do so.

[@SkyKevin]

isn't that exactly what you can do with tile caps? also if you want 1v1s you can always just use the arena's in the trade stations.

[@darktruth3769]

keeping it pvp/pve tiles helps big time sure enable base raiding on PVP TILES ONLY not PVE other wise yeah it will become unplayable to solo player like my self cause id have @#$@# holes zerging crap outta my base tossing hours of work in secs

[@SkyKevin]

Yes I think that's a fair way to balance it for sure.

[@ukaszlinka4662]

Get rid of Automata!!!! btw the handling of resources u sad would not be a problem if not for the hard points we have now :) just saying :P

[@SkyKevin]

Not a huge fan of the hardpoints system myself but I understand it. I think if they expand on it with a lot more variations it would feel a bit better.

[@johndcarlylesr5564]

if the add base raiding i would never play this game again ever !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@SkyKevin]

not even if you played on the pve tiles instead?

[@tuclance]

what?

[@SkyKevin]

who?

[@dominiquedo5614]

when?

[@NerdCoding]

Allowing toxic pvp players to be able to not only raid your base, but then spend hours zeroing out every single item in the base, so the 1 solo player 4 or more of you are picking on has to start over from scratch is why the game died, those players left, why spend days farming and building your base to lose it all in 2 hours, so now you have no one to even pvp with any longer

[@iinoskeesama9518]

Yup.. just the fact that you have a clan that doesn't mean u must enable base raiding .. coz not everyone is a toxic no life pvp clan players .. The game devs thought about everyone in that decision good point for them.

[@SapphosSails]

You are reallying missing the point behind PvP base dmg being disabled. Right now they are juggling too many balls and if anything they should disable zeroing walkers until they have PvP balanced. They are trying to figure out the PvE balance and can't even do that in isolation. Rairty needs a fix but enabling base raiding won't make much difference. Before we always had on tile bases even when PvP was on all tiles. Clans will just build a FOB on the PvP tiles and move their bank to the PvE tiles and depot occasionally. I promise you this won't change anything. large clans will just wipe everyone else off the PvP tiles and the smaller groups won't be able to raid their bases any more effectively than they can fight them in the deserts.

[@SkyKevin]

a few points here. Yes they are juggling too many balls here, but they put a key essential feature (Bases) on the backburner so they could deal with quality, walker health (which they increased by 750%) and the pve balance. Base raiding should have been their top priority since chadz mentioned how important it was when they released. I disagree, if you enable base raiding it becomes MUCH harder to gather gold rarity materials from that map, you no longer have a spot to safely store and process all those materials so your only choice is to craft what you need there on the tile on your walker, or move it back to the PVE tiles. You're right, clans will just build a fob on the PVP tiles, but that means they won't have their walkers stored there, they wont have most of their kits stored there, and any walkers they have will need to be constantly being used or they are exposed to the elements. It gives something for enemy clans to come attack and simultaneously reduces a clan's influence on the tile. Large clans will always try to have "Control" of a tile but I think in this case, having your main base there with all your players farming around everywhere will DEFINITELY be different than having a FOB there to operate out of. I imagine most clans if this is the case will have a lot of their population spread between the PVE servers for most of the day and only during peak hours would that actually have the manpower to roam around on a specific tile and claim it as their own. Otherwise, you'll see them going between all the other blue green and purple tiles as well. This gives players a chance to jump into those gold tiles and farm during the off hours as their numbers will be reduced and there isn't much for infrastructure to hold them up other than a FOB. Indeed, their stick base wouldn't even be enough to protect their walkers.

[@jimbean2274]

LOL ? There are PvE Tiles already, if this will get on in PvP Maps, it will destroy the Gameplay.

[@SkyKevin]

Well, yeah, they have PVE tiles already so adding the ability to fight on PVP maps just makes sense right?

[@user-li1wg4ss4w]

but bruh the game is still dying the dev themself murdered it with their cold greedy hands

[@SkyKevin]

well they always start the season with the best intentions and then usually end up going back to old habits.

[@GrownWild]

yea just wipe the game at this point and do what you said

[@SkyKevin]

I think we're pretty far from a wipe since they'll be releasing hard maps soon enough.

[@GrownWild]

@@SkyKevin congrats on the shout out from the devs. But yea they basically wiping rarity so that also works.

[@SkyKevin]

@@GrownWild lol thanks, yea my suggestion was based on the current distance associated with rarity. With event tiles they're pretty much eliminating that.

[@Dpol85]

1000% ruined game. Ez fix, old grapple physics and rules. Lobbying

[@SkyKevin]

I don't think the old grapple was good at all, you could swing off the back of someone's walker indefinitely if you wanted to.

[@Bitt3rh0lz]

Your arguments are incredibly short sighted and you disregard a lot of stuff to suit your point. Now before Y'all go nuts and tell me that I just dont want to loose my pixels, consider that my argument isnt against base damage in itself. But instead I just disagree with what SkyKevin thinks base damage would achieve. I couldn't care less about base damage cuz it just means a minor move to a PVE tile is needed. But lets get to the point: First of all, you mention larger groups and HQ items being an issue that can be solved by base raiding. But all thats gonna happen is the same as in the previous seasons. Any groups are gonna ship out their valuables to the nearest PVE tiles a Day before the update and then store it there for safe keeping while laughing about that argument. So that wouldn't change. Then theres the "not enough organic encounters" argument. This is complete and utter bolloks as well, because you already have dynamic encounters on PVP tiles. Every encounter there is is inherently organic. You arent pre-planning to meet somebodies walker at Position XYZ.Sure, you can expect the likelyhood of encounters with a certain group to increase if they are living on a server, but that doesnt make the encounters non-organic. What I'm hearing is that you dont want to run into the same people who are stronger than you over and over again, you want more variety because that means a greater chance for favourable matchups for you (and by extension all other players who play the same way). This tis into the "We were promised challenge" bit. Which is laughable because everyone, including yourself, knows in their heart that people dont want a challenge. People want to win. Why do you think there are huge Smurfing epidemics in . Enabling base raiding wouldn't mean that small and medium sized groups will attack the biggest fishes first. We already had that possibility in previous seasons and we, to nobodies surprise, saw that the primary targets people looked for for "content" were solo's and smaller sized groups that they could easily defeat. Only when none of those were left would people start to attack the bigger, more well defended targets on a regular basis. And its gonna be the absolute same again. People don't generally pick a risky fight, they pick a safe fight where the outcome is almost or actually guaranteed. I aggree with the notion that the event tiles system was shitty, but in all honesty, the problem of "Someone having their decked out war walker roaming to find some content" wasn't something that was limited to event tiles. You just noticed it there a bit more because event tiles were so condensed and designed to force strife because they locked away progression paths behind them. But we also roamed any normal odd tile with our war walkers back in S1-3 (didnt play 4) for exactly the same purpose while there was no event tiles nearby. I fail to see how base damage would curb this behavior. As a group, you still want to roam the PVP tiles while your scouts are out looking for any potential easy targets. That was not different then and is no different now. I dont see how base damage would really change any of the issues the game had and is still having. Yeah youre introducing some amount of travel but for bigger groups in particular who generally tend to have people who 24/7 the game, this would be a minor inconvenience at best. Same as clan caps or water restrictions. Everything that you throw at people in terms of soft limitations can be overcome with a small to medium grade of dedication and some decent metagame organization (meaning outside the game org through thrid party services). The problems that LO is having are much more fundamentally due to LO's crippling bad game design. I wont get into details but you just cant mate semi permanent game worlds with material only progression and make it fun for everyone regardless of their playstyle. And despite what some vocal minority on reddit and discord wants to portrait, the amount of people who actually enjoy wild west sort of games is laughably small in comparison to other, more cooperative gameplay titles, let alone singleplayer games. There just arent enough players around who enjoy this kind of niche for all the games that are trying to cram themselves into said niche. LO has to compete with the likes of DayZ, RUST, SoT, PVP ARK and Conan servers and many other more refined and established titles already.

[@SkyKevin]

To your point about shipping items to PVE tiles. Yes, I think it's fine if any groups do that. Organic encounters. I believe they are non-organic right now. You have to purposefully go out looking for a fight and if someone doesn't want to fight you they can hide in their base and remain as safe as they want. This is fine if you're on a PVE tile but not for PVP. You're right most people pick the easy fight. Hence why we need more organic encounters. Most large groups don't all sit on 1 walker collectively farming together, they always eventually split into their own walkers. If you get attacked, everyone on the same map as you converges on that location in a matter of minutes. If you spread them out more by making them travel they wouldn't have as much of a chance. For event tiles, I find they just don't have the level of distance required to make the difficulty jump. You enter into an event tile and leave so quickly that you don't need a well-equipped walker. Almost everyone on Iron tiles would bring a throwaway walker and leave their high quality stuff at home. They would wingsuit around and if their walker died just walk out of the zone with their inventory full of iron. I personally want there to be distance from the PVE areas that increases so that you don't have the option of bringing a throwaway walker because it won't carry the supplies necessary to sustain the trip. To your point about the soft caps. You're right a lot of the measures they've taken haven't really worked out too well. But I think naturally even the largest clans in the game tend to spread out over time. They like to lock down and control an area. BUT it's difficult for them to be on 24/7. If you wanted to control a legendary tile you would need to set up an outpost that could essentially be easily raided by another clan of similar size at an opportune moment. It's very difficult to convince players to spend their entire time patrolling around a tile and switching off 24/7. There's often a period during their off hours where they would have to head back to the PVE tiles to store walkers and rest, relinquishing control of the tile for that timeframe. Yes LO is competing with a lot of titles with a much larger playerbase, but I think it's just having trouble finding the mechanical changes to make it iterative and fun to keep playing. They're getting closer and I think the changes I'm suggesting bring them closer to that, not further away. They always intended to have base raiding in the game and I think they were just holding off on it for too long which allowed the meta to change to what it is now rather than opening up the floodgates of opportunity, testing things out, and then deciding what to do from there. They introduced the rarity event tiles without ever seeing what will happen when base raiding is enabled which I find is fundamentally lacking in testing.

[@Bitt3rh0lz]

@@SkyKevin 1: Disagreement on the Definition of Organic Gameplay I guess the definition of what is and isn't organic differs between the both of us. To me, any encounter that isnt previously planned and agreed upon by both sides to at least some degree is organic. Sure, you may be going around and actually be looking for a fight but, at least IMO, you still find them at random (unless you specifically go directly for someones base and camp them for the rest of the night). As long as there is some degree of unpredictability to tthe fights you get, it counts as organic. And IMO, there will never be an idealistic full organic experience. You will always have people directly looking for a fight and looking to overpower their foe. Even when we did have a decent-ish population in the game in early seasons, we would still mainly work towards the point where we could go out together and look for a fight, while the rest of the time was spent in small detatchments of usually 1-3 players sharing tasks and/or protecting each other. The truely random encounters where neither party expects a fights or is looking for one happen all on their own, but due to the size of the game world in conjunction with the playerbase's size, these truely random encounters are much rarer than those where at least one party is actively out for content. I'd wager that the majority of encounters is at least partially if not fully intentional by at least one side, if not both. 2: The zerg convergence phenomenon I don't really think there is a counter for that because its just a way that people play. Even if you make the conditions a little more adverse for people and spread them a little farther apart (which lets face it doesnt do much good cuz then the bigger groups just huddle together when doing their farming raids on the uncapped tiles), all you do is shave off a little bit of response time in which you as the attacker have a bit better odds towards the even point. Granted this only applies if people still go out in small detatchments and dont do a locust swarm. Point being, I doubt that there will be as much effect as you desire. And besides, I dont really see the convergence response as much of an issue. Rather, it makes an attack on a target you know has people in their back pocket a time sensitive endeavour, which to me, ties in with it actually being a challenge. If your attack runs for too long, the odds may turn on you and you'll have to run. To me thats a normal dynamic and as much as you try, youre never fully gonna get rid of that, nor should we. 3: Area Control To me, area control is a matter of investment vs opportunity. Granted, youre right that bases would shift away from being concentrated on one tile and rather spread a bit. I just don't think it matters. Most bigger groups play at a high degree of efficiency and they will carefully weight off the risk and reward. Having the choice of all the risk vs none of the risk, I doubt that establishing anything but a temporary shelter from stroms would be left in terms of construction if there was base destruction enabled. Holding an empty outpost would be a waste of time and resources, you wouldn't even want one as a staging area, because the risk that it gets smashed is too great. Youd just regularily ship your valuables off-tile and do your best to dodge storms. Perhaps I agree with you in this regard even. Or I may just be completely worng and the big groups actually hold on tooth and nail cuz we still have just 100 people per tile, but oh well, its speculation at this point. Point being, either way I doubt that this really changes stuff for the better, as the ideal modus operandi still remains convergence in case of an emergency or just locust-ing to begin with. 4: LO getting to a point where its replayable I think that the design of LO in general is fundamentally flawed and thats why they just can't seem to make it work, as they try to mate two sort of gameplay designs that REALLY dont go together well. Maybe I am a bit jaded in this regard but its pretty apparent that a game that is based around Material Progression and the establishment of an Age-Wealth-Gap between players, coupled with a highly degree of competitivity and all the tropes brings with it. It becomes very hard to please people because at the end of the day, nobody wants to loose and everyone wants to win. Without frequent resets this doesnt go very well if those who win keep winning harder and harder and those who dont eventually get bullied out of the game. The odds become more and more stacked in the repeat winners favour and those who band together collectively tend to win more than the rest. Grouping up makes your individual failures less impactful and your collective wins much more impactful. You share the burden and complete the same tasks by orders of magnitude faster than a solo or smaller group ever could, almost regardless of how many hours each individual invests. This environment is naturally unfair to those who don't group up. I get it, everyone wants to win but the environment is hopelessly stacked against people who dont group. You basicly willfully shoot yourself in the foot if you don't join a big group. Funnily most people then also complain that their foot hurts and ask the Dev's to do something about the bloodloss. This is why games that feature material progression in a competitive environment mostly restrict the team size to only a hand full of players and target a reset point of roughly around 30-45 minutes (if not less). Think CS:GO, DOTA2, Valorant, World of Tanks, Warthunder, etc. Planetside and Foxhole e.g. work without repeat resets but thats because they have trivialised the individuals impact across the board and limited the amount of sides you can be on. I dont think LO really has found what it wants to be and is lost in this limbo of trying to mate long cycles with quick material progression without any hard limits to how people can play in an massively connected setting. Even similar style games like DayZ, RUST and ARK simply dont have that last massive component of trying to fit everyone on one big map at the same time. They all split their community into a myriad of non-connected microverses that are totally independant of one another. hence why I am pretty certain that what LO is aiming to achieve in terms of design just cant and wont ever come to fruition. At least not without them dropping SOME part of the puzzle.

[@samos343guiltyspark]

Just get rid of this "quality" nonsense.

[@gungetcha2998]

Any game that wipes for seasons is because they lack the ability to balance it or lack the content to keep it going without population decline, keeping that in mind your making way to much sense for this dev team they won’t understand you I mean we raid monkies in shit shacks to make automated weapons mega structures like hanger bases walkers and even wooden robots that can fire weapons

[@SkyKevin]

I don't have any problems with the current iteration of the game, there's a lot of stuff they've done well and changed to make it have a lot more replayability and more dynamic. But they're looking for some kind of player retention for their game and so far this would give people a lot of that opportunity to venture out, die, rebuild and keep going.

[@gungetcha2998]

@@SkyKevin I agree this is the first time I’ve played since season 1 because as a solo or small group it’s been pointless until now however the season is already heavily stacked against the little guys seeing endgame by allowing the zergs to live rent free in pvp zones for as long as they already have, they should have done the pvp balance pre wipe not weeks into it and still waiting

[@NukedUp]

stop trying to force pvp. is what killed the game back in s1 and why its so low pop rn. let people solo let people have fun. no such thing as a fair fight. never enable base raiding.

[@SkyKevin]

I don't consider it forcing PVP when you have the option to play on either a PVE or PVP server. If you don't want to PVP then stay on the PVE servers and enjoy the game. I think the mentality you're talking about is exactly the problem that's been created by not enabling it. There's now an assumption or mentality that the game owes you the right to be 100% completely safe on PVP tiles which was never supposed to be the case.