The Most Misunderstood Item of The Game

[@garagavia]

One factor you didn't mention is that some times you want to buy Dark Seal to spend more gold in fountain. If you have a extra 350 gold it's almost always better to buy dark seal than to run to lane without spending that gold. The exception is if you are planning to base on an exact spike and need the 350 for that timing

[@CoachMysterias]

100% correct sir

[@ChilledoutDevil]

realistically, it wasn't worth mentioning. wanting to spend more gold in fountain is just a different way of saying "you need the base stats of gold efficiency" (as stated in the video) to compete for lane prio. also, the exception you made is similarly explained in the video with showmaker lb's example vs marksmen meta you are correct in that it is often worth; the thought process tends to be "i have 350 extra" or "i can buy dark seal + component" (on first couple of recalls) and then self-query if dark seal is an appropriate buy (it often is in soloq imo) as explained in vid, but tbh seems like a nitpick to say he didn't mention it - having "extra gold" for dark seal is like the only condition you initially consider buying it to begin with, the other being downgrading the component you could've bought to fit in dark seal alongside the cheaper component, most commonly in place of an amp tome, or a mana/ruby crystal - regardless it still ties in with when he talks about buying stats for lane prio if you wanna maximise gold on a reset and arent considering a spike rush (as you mentioned), you probably then feel like you want best possible stats to compete in lane (as mysterias mentioned). realistically, lane phase before first item spikes is the only time 350g is gonna make a difference in terms of stats so all in all just having the gold does not necessarily count for a reason to buy it; that only makes it accessible, but that may not mean it is a good choice to purchase it e.g. already behind, late into the game (inv slots become competitive), unlikely to snowball, etc

[@reyolers]

@@ChilledoutDevil its fair to mention since not everyone will pick up on it

[@user-dy5fe6hv2p]

I see why you need these coaching guides 💀

[@stealthgamer4620]

@@ChilledoutDevilfwiw i see this singed challenger player do it a lot, he does it mainly because he’s confident in his skill and knowledge to do so. I don’t remember or know the exact details myself but I could see this information on make or break situations. Although it’s a “specific situation”, when you lock in tens to a hundred of games the occurrence will become relatively common. I play Singed mid so this is less likely for me because of the short lane and I don’t run TP. You’re pretty much always able to buy components that you need. Also, I buy Dark Seal anyway some games. If I buy it, it’s after first legendary.

[@garagavia]

For me the most common misconception I hear about this item is that it's risky. People think it's only worth it if you get a lot of stacks and don't die. However as you covered in the video the base stats it gives are just good alone, and even if you don't snowball very hard it's easy to get a few random takedowns here and there which makes it even more efficient. At 10 stacks the item is worth over 1200 gold in stats which is crazy for the price

[@axb_zero8457]

an example of people having no clue about this is ludwigs stream from today: on 3-4 items tons of people were SCREAMING at ludwig in chat to sell his 3-5 stack dark seal when he wouldve been 100 gold short of a rod AND even if u have enough to sell dark seal for rod, its not always correct, for example u could get a pot for the deciding fight and keep the 5 stack seal, which grants u way more AP than a rod

[@elgatochurro]

It's meant to be built, is meant to be stacked You can't build it AFTER you get a lead, you need to get the item first

[@King1Z7]

5 stacks on seal does not grant more AP than a rod though? 5 stacks on seal equals 5*4+15 because each stack is worth 4 ap and seal grants 15 ap. Rod gives 65​. Or did you mean mejai's?@@axb_zero8457

[@snakeinabox7220]

Another point I've heard before from Evelyn players. If your behind on a Ap assasin, buy darkseal. Since if your behind Evelynn you can't just play safe and cosistant. Snowballing is your chance to recover. And no item will match darkseal if stacked.

[@danielliang9266]

Yeah, and also if you're ahead, get darkseal to snowball. Or if you're even in soloq, get darkseal for the chance to snowball. In short, always get dark seal on AP assassin. Buying it after 1st item spike is not illegal

[@konaqua122]

It's a niche item because it gives advantage on snowball. I've recently started buying this on warwick and what I don't understand is why people didn't. 1. Dark seal gains Glory for kills, gains reduced glory on assists. Warwick's W senses when enemies have low hp, aka, when you can either kill them or they die from your team. If you managed to reach before they die, that's an easy Dark seal stack. 2. Warwick has some AP scaling on passive BUT has 100% AP scaling on Q. Which means 350g at full stack = +70 damage on Q. I can full stack this usually before level 6. Mejai can give you +120 damage on Q at full stack. Dark Seal is probably one of the most gold efficient on Warwick as long as you don't try to die.

[@robbierotten3123]

Another misunderstood item is Mejais, an upgrade to dark seal. The item is incredibly gold efficient when fully stacked, but the big thing people misunderstand about it is that it’s a comeback item. It is much worse to purchase when you are on a team that’s ahead vs when you are on a team that’s behind.

[@Drivinefire]

why is that? I always had a great time snowballing with it

[@zildark6699]

@@Drivinefire If you are ahead you already have the damage to kill the enemy, so building defensive is better to avoid throwing your lead. If you build mejais the risk of dying weights more than the reward (damage) that it gives.

[@Drivinefire]

@zildark6699 well I play mostly AP assassins so I don't really have defensive items besides zhonyas

[@CoachMysterias]

Yep i can see that! it is definitely a big risk factor when behind but in games that are seemed nearly unwinable through standard practises it's worth a gamble

[@matthewradabaugh1635]

@@Drivinefireyou can put the mejai’s gold to a rabadon’s instead. You get much more ap fasted if you go third item rabadons instead of finishing the mejais’s. On the flip side, mejai’s when stacked is a very efficient item, so when you’re behind, mejai’s is a better watch to save gold while still getting some stats.

[@blisswinters2527]

I would've liked clips of showmaker doing this to be inserted rather than taking you at your word or hunting for the clips myself. Just seeing visually how those trades with early ludens played out would be a good visual aid and wouldn't have taken away from the slide format imo

[@CoachMysterias]

will do it next time thanks for the feedback 💪🏼💪🏼

[@yousifbarcelona]

Im personally believer that if you are behind and your only way of winning is through a coinflip fight, might as well buy dark seal/upgrade to mejais as it will help u a lot comeback to the came if the chances meet and gives u bigger boost =bigger chance of winning after a comeback.

[@CoachMysterias]

Yep if you need to flip i can definitely see it. Itd pretty rare to get in a gamestate like that though

[@yousifbarcelona]

@ with nexus turrets resurrecting after couple mins of being taken down we shall see more opportunities to this strat

[@brendanbudniak2261]

Dark seal reminds me of myself as a child

[@olldrichsemmelbach3953]

brother what ^^

[@darmandez]

You got 4 ap every time someone around you died?

[@brendanbudniak2261]

​​@@olldrichsemmelbach3953 So misunderstood but so much potential 😢

[@Mati-zc2ym]

@@brendanbudniak2261 but in the late game you didn't become a component of sth more useful, just kept being a dark seal (i am sorry i had to)

[@ccccoooooollll]

maybe another aspect of when to buy dark seal: if you champion easily collects assissts, for example on swain with his W

[@confusednerd3171]

Mejai is good when behind. Objectively true statement ^ Willing to have a discussion

[@davidaleksidze3381]

Probably a very mathematically nuanced question. One thing I can say is when youre behind, enemies have high shutdown gold so you’re incentivized to go for kills, and mejais goes along with it. Also you can say that even if it doesnt boost your chances to win in some scenarios, but keeps win probability neutral, its still “efficient” because if you lose, you’ll lose slightly faster.

[@yusie8306]

You and Shok have single handedly made me feel like a competent mage player. Goated content. One question though, I've been picking up LB and have really struggled to make impact across the map with adcs brining things like barrier or buying shieldbow which makes one-shotting them or having impact feel impossible. I imagine i'm doing something wrong. Any ideas what it could be?

[@CoachMysterias]

It is a pretty tough thing to deal with as a LB, in that case you are probably trying to do a lot of stuff solo. Try to work a bit more with your team and look for angles to enageg with other threatening members, akak multi -threat

[@user-dy5fe6hv2p]

Re-think your role on LB

[@nicolaslevasseur875]

When should you buy dark seal as a jungler? You obviously can’t buy it as a starting item, but is it still good at first recall, after first item, after boots, etc.

[@CoachMysterias]

I'm not fully sure since I'm actually not a jungle expert in itemization. I think it really depends on what type of jungler you are playing. If you are playing one with a lot of kill/gank threat probably as early as possible. Eve, Elise etc want to get it stacking asap

[@DanGerov]

On ap assassins you usually rush sorc shoes and dark seal

[@lamer8310]

this was very informative, make more videos on items!

[@Hamtaijin-ud2li]

Agreed. I always thought dark seal was a turban, but your thumbnail made me realize it is a ring

[@cosarara97]

Does it make sense to buy dark seal right after ludens? (before or after boots?) Or is it too late to make a difference then?

[@CoachMysterias]

Depends on your goal with the item! if you can snowball and rack up stacks its good. But for base stats you dont want to buy it

[@MakZkovich]

Tutorial misunderstood I buy darkseal every first recall (this comment was made by the Ekko gang)

[@cauinn]

what is the ekko gang?

[@manuelolival949]

Mejai from behind is when you feel that the game is "lost" so might as well flip it, you have nothing to lose since the game was already "lost"

[@GbergStacks]

Suprised you didnt mention buying dark seal after you had your forst completed item since once you have your powerspike youre more likely to be able to snowball/control the game leading to a higher chance of you not only securing stacks but keeping them

[@nemec1670]

Rank 1 Zac jg OTP buys it every game ASAP (usually after bami's cinder). What do you think about that?

[@insaneape1091]

That aint 350 thats “?8O”

[@garagavia]

Thanks for doing a video on this! I've thought of doing a skool post on the same topic, it's a really prevalent misunderstanding

[@chunkeebread]

as mid lane my 1st back is usually buy mana crystal or amp tome with dark seal refillable. unless ofc u have enough for lost chapter or you play against skill shot champs like lux/hwei so then you go boots. up to preference really.

[@mrmangbro6842]

I role swapped from top to mid last split, you, shok, and coach curtis have helped my journey be so nuch smoother its incredible! I went from ~d2 last split this split im hovering in 0-100lp master depending on how i play the block or two for the day (which is crazier with the reduction in master players)

[@CoachMysterias]

INSANE CLIMB holy moly, well done dude

[@Leo-sy4vu]

What about ap junglers

[@CoachMysterias]

AP junglers like to buy it more frequenctly mainly due to them having a lower risk of dying and more opportunities to be part of where the kills happen.

[@klauswolfbert]

Snowballing is so easy these days that I just always end up getting it

[@TheCianhogan]

For the item spike problem, I'm not sure I understand. Doesn't everyone start Doran's Ring/Shield instead? Which is the same problem in terms of wasted gold? Wouldn't you need to start Amp tome instead of Dark Seal to progress towards Ludens without wasting gold on a non component item?

[@CoachMysterias]

It's not really meant as a starting item but rather as a pick up after first reset

[@TheCianhogan]

@@CoachMysterias Makes sense then, thanks!

[@jeremylawliet9004]

Wait how long did i forgot about league, since when you cant upgrade dark zeal anymore? It was upgradeable in the past, but it wasnt a component to a core item, you could upgrade it to a better dark zeal

[@ayzix-polytopia3854]

Why are you saying dark seal isn’t a component? Did you forget that mejai’s soulstealer exist?

[@argothapro1295]

Not reliable ig

[@dumpsterplayer2700]

80% of games youre probably not going to be upgrading it

[@CoachMysterias]

it's not a real item spike in most cases

[@dialgos7574]

I like to think of it in a different way: regarding starts I prefer dark seal + refil on weak early game champs. 1. Its cheaper since you get 200g back instead of just 160g when you buy dorans ring and 2 potions. Dorans ring is just better if you want to be strong in lane but with champs like kassadin i literally dont care about trading, since you lose almost any matchup 100% of the time anyways. And since you have refillable it makes up for the not so good stats on dark seal compared to dorans ring. But if you play champs like Orianna its just better to start Dorans ring for better trading

[@TheRealSorav]

So why do twisted fate players go dark seal then? Isn't it harder to snowball with him? Does that mean its actually bad on him?

[@CoachMysterias]

It's really good on TF since he able to pick up so many kills/ stacks with his R. He also loves the base stats in lane due to his laning being on the weaker side in the 1v1

[@TheRealSorav]

@@CoachMysterias So in the case of TF when would you say dark seal is a bad buy? Never?

[@CoachMysterias]

@@TheRealSorav correct!

[@kiss-shotacerola-orionhear1442]

They should bring back the dark seal that equivalents to ad and hp

[@kesegoe9488]

NEED MEJAIS NEVER TOSS

[@xd_joe]

is it good for lux and nami? and WHEN do i buy it if it is good? (also do you buy t1 boots before or after first item)

[@mushe729]

Depends if enemy is skillshot champ boots early if ur melee into ranged t2 boots to gap close

[@mushe729]

Also if ur playing sp ap damage lux then get darkseal it's gold efficient and ur not playing a champ with good item spikes either way

[@CoachMysterias]

I suppose you mean support Lux & Nami. Yes these champs love the item because supports usually play less of spikes then mid laners. They also ahve access to more plays on the map. The only time id be carefull with buying them is if the enemies have a lot of threatening tools that can kill you constantly

[@mouhou9795]

You forgot support. When should soraka build dark seal? Because there are games it's genuinely pretty good. I just have no idea at what stage in the game you're supposed to buy it.

[@ReyaadGafur]

early backs when you dont have any components to buy, but have enough gold to buy dark seal.

[@CoachMysterias]

For supports if you can grab an item spike, 100% go for the spike but if you got leftover gold (which happens a lot as a support) AND you play a champion that can stay alive --> Janna for example. It's a really good buy since you can rack up a lot of assissts around the map and get it stacking

[@Cristina.Castillos]

I think that with how much early game skirmishes I see in gold for absolutely no reason. I think dark seal is viable every game.

[@anthonyblack6859]

Is it worth buying still after I get my first item tho?

[@CoachMysterias]

Yep purely to snowball and if youre able to get stacks then

[@rokasb9441]

Hi, i know this is a little specific, but i wanted to ask, if dark seal is not always ideal, when should i go dorans ring instead of dark seal as starting item on vladimir (mostly mid), considering he does not use mana and dorans ring health regen seems so much worse than 2 refills i get and utilise with dark seal till like 2 items..

[@CoachMysterias]

Hey mate! for a champion like vladimir i think Dark seal is great! mainly since he uses it as a starting item so the principles kinda change for him. He also has crazy scaling on AP since it gives him extra health. So the item is generally a bit more snowbally/ valuable on him

[@Chernplaylist]

Great video!

[@markovchainz8314]

Ok, you conplained about mejais being really "flip" aka random in terms of getting back into the game. Yes this is true, but there's some niche scenarios where you want to introduce some variance into the game because you're doing really well and everyone else is running it down and you (as the AP assassin player) need to hard carry your team out of the canyon, or the game's already lost. Introducing variance is really good to do from behind when the lead is large enough that the game is unwinnable through standard predictable gameplay.

[@CoachMysterias]

i can see that from a "doomed" game perspective. Though most games when played arent doomed. There is usually always a win condition

[@markovchainz8314]

@@CoachMysterias Thanks for the response. In most situations, I agree

[@juusokarjanlahti1838]

I agree that if your champ is mana hungry, rushing Lost Chapter (something like Baus does) is incredibly strong. I'm not sure how much Baus buys Dark Seal on gragas for example (I'd imagine a lot because hes a yenius). Interesting to make comparisons to pro play and specifically LCK thats known for low kill early games (and one of the best LeBlanc players in the world). What about the games Dark Seal or Mejai's allowed someone to pop-off entirely? Why do you say Dark seal doesn't build into anything when we all know it builds to Mejais? and full stacked Mejai's is always better than 2 large rods in your inventory. But I agree that spikes and item passives are more important that raw stats. I disagree on the idea that Dark Seal is a bad buy if you're behind, especially in solo que, especially in lower elo. I think a big thing about the stacking items are that you need patience and you can't die for fun with it, because then it just becomes an expensive amp tome. You also have to be concious about enemy wanting to take your stacks, even if they have to commit alot. I think the sentiment that you can just stat check opponents after few early stacks is important. Also understanding your champion, (like if it would take you one spell rotation with Dark Seal to clear a wave VS. two spell rotations without Dark Seal saves you mana) is very important.

[@CoachMysterias]

Its true that dark seal is a component to Mejai's although mejai's in itself is not a consistent item spike to aim for. I agree with the rest of your points!

[@Kamishi845]

I've never seen Baus vuy Dark Seal and honestly it's probably because it doesn't make sense for his play style. Baus' style is all about creating pressure and drawing people to him which is why he dies a lot. Since he dies a lot he can't consistently stack DS. Since he also dies a lot and draws a lot of pressure, he needs tools that help him stay alive or get out of sticky situations or help him outplay his opponent and again Dark Seal doesn't do that. While good stats for the gold the upgrade path is horrible and relies on you actively staying alive. When Baus builds AP, he always goes for mobility and cooldown reduction. He invented the method of stacking Magic Codex on Gragas because the raw stats from Codex in addition to the massive CDR made Gragas really oppressive to verse to the point Riot had to nerf the item. This is also why you never see Baus starting with your typical first item because over the course of the game especially when you're going to be playing from behind, you really need to be as efficient as you can with your gold. It's more efficient to start with an actual item component/Cull since Cull is the only *guaranteed* gold positive item in the game because it let's you spike so much sooner. It's similar to LS' Mana Crystal start on Malzahar. Another thing that's notable about Baus' champion pool which I've thought a lot about lately is that all of them have very good base stats and consistent scaling over the course of the game. So consider something like Yasuo or Yone that are champions with actually bad base stats but overloaded kits. You're simply not going to see Baus play those kinds of champions because they're too unreliable for his playstyle, because if you fall behind on Yasuo or Yone, it's a lot harder to make outplays and come back into the game because of their bad base stats, whereas a champion like Gragas or Volibear or even Sion have incredible base stats that scale well over the course of the game. This is also the logic behind Baus' Gray Kayn strategy even though formless Kayn has horrible base stats, he makes up for it by having better base stats than a majority of other champions after he gets his form. Kayn, like Volibear, Gragas, Sion etc. also all have great outplay potential in the side lane, good mobility and escape tools and can nullify bad lanes via proxy thanks to incredible wave clear. From this perspective it's actually surprising Baus hasn't tried Graves top as an alternative to Quinn, but I guess I shouldn't give him ideas lol.

[@juusokarjanlahti1838]

@@Kamishi845 I think you have good arguments how Dark Seal might be counter-intuitive for Baus, but I think the reality is that he builds Dark Seal alot, most games based on my small peek at his current match history. I noticed he even starts with it on Jax and Voli for example.

[@Blaze-kf3ds]

i forgot this item existed (aram main here)

[@jd-arc]

Bbblasting wand?

[@xx_g4m3rsw4g_xx]

great video! too bad I only play ad assassins :(

[@CoachMysterias]

long sword gang

[@r.l.steinfeld1448]

Its almost a perma buy for me Tahm top

[@mushe729]

I play gwen so i just buy it every game anyway (gwen 1 item spike is mid)

[@elfyar5786]

i think cull is more missunderstood

[@CoachMysterias]

Feel free to elaborate!

[@elfyar5786]

​@@CoachMysterias forgot to reply so basically cull is bought mostly by adcs when on the exact gold and sometimes toplaners build it. overall the item pays for itself plus a bit more with the exchange of playing more for waves than for lethal. i think the item can always be build on any champ in any lane that is not support/jungle in any elo below masters since A it teaches you the importance of waves B the importance of wave manipulations and C you will most likely always complete it getting to your items that isnt first item just a bit faster. and overall i think it should also be bought on mages especially the ones needing 2-3 items. and the only reason people dont buy the item is cause they say "it doesnt feel good"

[@bluerum896]

I mean having 10% less health literally doesn’t feel good. Stats alone, it’s terrible in gold efficiency vs dark seal

[@garagavia]

Another factor you completely skipped is that Dark Seal is in fact a component, it builds into Mejai. Mejai is a much narrower item, but I think people are too afraid to buy it at lower levels of play

[@ReyaadGafur]

yea when he said it wasnt a component i was like ???? mejai is legit the single biggest ap item in the game and gives the most stats + uses the already existing dark seal stacks.

[@shaldino1465]

heard u got gapped by AloisNL riven

[@CoachMysterias]

When i face him on mid ill gap him 🧐🧐