The Most Underrated Part of Every Sonic Game

[@JsReviews]

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[@williamwade2674]

first

[@jarrellfamily1422]

Hey you should play gravity circuit it's like megaman x/zero you'll love it I'm sure

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Scores reached would give a reward as Extra Lives or Continues in Sonic1-3&Knuckles, 3D Blast, maybe Mania, I believe Sonic Adventure 1

[@MrTragedious986]

The best part about Unleashed ranking system is the E Rank. What I liked about the ranking system is seeing the characters reaction on seeing the rank systems it gives a lot of life instead of standing there, I’m glad they brought back the animation for the ranking system for Shadow Generation.

[@Naruku2121]

When you said that I instantly recalled the sense of failure and disappointment Sonic had. Unleashed really was good at making ending animations varied depending on how well you performed.

[@doctorchoicetheunchainedx7523]

@@Naruku2121And then there is also how the music fails as well so you really felt the failure.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@Naruku2121 I was also the last Sonic game with a high budget.

[@michaelfryers1914]

​@@orangeslash1667I think they spent most of the budget on the opening cutscene lmao

[@thebeanguy08]

all we need now is for an s rank to be actually hard to get

[@Schmytzi]

I think Colors' rank system's biggest issue is the color bonus. In stages with a drill wisp, you can literally go underground and farm unlimited points

[@skeetermania3202]

The color bonus is not unlimited. It wears off after a period of time, and each wisp yields a different point bonus per second. For example: Hover: 10,000 Drill: 3,500 Also, if you spend too long in a stage to the point where red text showing “Time’s up” appears on the upper right hand corner of the UI, you can’t play for an S rank anymore.

[@starscotten]

The color bonus isn't that bad, the ONLY problem is the rank scores are horrendously high in general to compensate for the color bonus.

[@fictionalmediabully9830]

The ranking system is why "Sonic Adventure 2" is one of my favourites. But I offer "Sonic the Hedgehog 2" special praise for rewarding the player "continues" every time they achieve 10,000 bonus points. It gave players a reason to engage with the mechanics and improve if they wanted to beat the game. It's a design philosophy that wasn't expanded and improved upon until "Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped" six years later.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Your thoughts are very interesting!

[@Speed_Tales_]

How did Crash 3 improve on it?

[@fictionalmediabully9830]

@@Speed_Tales_ The time relics. It took Sonic's "going fast" philosophy and gave you a permanent extrinsic reward for your performance. It's the first (and perhaps only) time Crash Bandicoot pushed the action-platformer genre forward.

[@skeetermania3202]

Completing a stage under 44 seconds (which is very doable in earlier levels) automatically yields you a continue.

[@OlmiOP]

A lot of the issue with that approach is that if you're good enough to get those continues, then chances are you're not going to need them, since you're less likely to actually die enough for them to matter it's SOMETHING, and I'd definitely have it over not, but it could've been better

[@somerandomnesspoo8467]

Tails and Eggman stages actively need the ranking system, there really isn't incentive to target as many enemies as possible without it whereas you are still rewarded to play better in the other stage types.

[@skeetermania3202]

Retropolis Zone also covered this at length in his own SA2 re-review. As for the casual side, implantgames also has you covered.

[@gokublack9724]

I'll stand by the fact that the werehog is the most underrated thing in unleashed, it may be a god of war clone but aside from the poor camera angles, no drop shadow and the tip toeing parts it's a solid gimmick playstyle

[@Shonenboiss]

I really do love how Sonic Adventure 2 and Unleashed handle the ranking system. They didn’t hand out S ranks like candy you actually had to earn them by practicing and replaying the level

[@ashuebot-tabi4449]

Not really for HD Unleashed, you have to slog through its terrible day stages and pray the game works properly.

[@_SSCJ]

@@ashuebot-tabi4449what?

[@Sybry605]

Heroes also had the SA2 ranking system, just dumbed down a little bit

[@themetallicblueblur4761]

LOL​@@ashuebot-tabi4449

[@ashuebot-tabi4449]

@@_SSCJ The ranking in Unleashed is bad, not helped by it's terrible levels design and lack of function.

[@TheLonelyGoomba]

Something about Forces is that, you get a daily bonus multiplier for playing the game, which makes getting S ranks incredibly easy. To the extent it trivialises it. I'm not even sure you can disable this?

[@gapfmmadeira]

Theres something about Sonic Forces weird features that feel odd to me. The daily bonus you mentioned, the daily missions and the world leaderboards just make the game feel like it was supposed to be something bigger than what it ended up being

[@Gnidel]

​@@gapfmmadeiraEverything about this game looks like it was the case. But I'm not surprised it ended up as $40 budget release after Sonic Boom turned out to be money flushed down the toilet and they had to release anything they could to stay afloat.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

​​@@gapfmmadeirai actually made it to the top 100 on many of the levels on the world leaderboards For example, since I played on 2 xbox accounts(at 2 seperate moments), I managed to get Rank 9 and 15 on Iron Fortress! Also, I believe I got to the top 10 on some of the extra/secret levels

[@TheLonelyGoomba]

@@Hyp3rSonic why you telling me this? lol

[@Hyp3rSonic]

​​@@TheLonelyGoombaoops. I meant to tag someone else. Btw, are you referring to the hidden comment, or this one? I fixed it now. Also, if you are referring to the hidden one, I just wanted to say it, because I thought that it would be an interesting comment

[@dalton7726]

I never realized as a kid that getting an “E” wasn’t a real thing in school lmfao

[@shadedglade4475]

Not going to lie, I think I saw it used once but I can't be too sure if I did

[@mushroomdude123]

It was when I was grade school.

[@kdr_roxas]

​@@shadedglade4475 Saw it once at mine, for us it was apparently the default grade for when a student did absolutely zero assignments, failed all tests, quizzes and mandatory exams, and also just outright didn't show up to school.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

@@dalton7726 yeah. I never saw the E grade when I was attending school.

[@Phamtheman69]

In australia E is a grade for my highschool

[@shadowvincent8718]

This might be an odd comparison to some but i have always feelt that the Sonic series is the Devil May Cry of the platforming genre. What i mean by that is that both games rewards you for replaying by having ranking systems that grade the player for being stylish in different ways which makes both games incredibly satisfying to master. The Sonic games that i think does the ranking system the best is Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Project 06.

[@lorenzo689]

I think megaman zero is more fitting

[@kolkagaming1234]

The Underrated part of Sonic Forces is the Soundtrack itself only. That’s it.

[@RefreshingMirage]

I’m a massive Forces hater but even I can admit, the soundtrack is pretty good

[@spritvio639]

It's fine. There are some bangers in there, but I'm not a fan of the EDM.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Respectfully disagree. (About it only being the soundtrack For example, the classic sonic stages having actual level design is worth something(IMO) But even if I personally love Forces, I still find it mediocre. No amount of nostalgia/enjoyment will change that

[@ToonyTails]

Nah, I’d say it’s also a fun speedrun game due to how short the levels are.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

​​@@ToonyTailsdefinitely agree. The chance that I will do a full game speedrun is low, however... I do want to speedrun specific levels. I'm very good at Classic Sonic stages and the extra/secret stages in particular, overall. (Also, that 2nd Infinite Boss)

[@pass_]

I've been debating whether or not I should go for an all a/s rank challenge in all the games that have them but then I realised I'd be doing that for the rest of my life with how many they're are, maybe I'll just do the adventure games and heroes

[@DesignDoc]

SA2 and to a lesser extent Heroes and Unleashed were the only ones to really get the ranking system right. Ranking systems need to get players to appreciate the depth of a game's mechanics beyond speed running techniques. Colors kinda gets it right and S-ranks were tougher to get but there was something missing that I can't quite put my finger on (maybe how speed isn't a factor in high ranks?). Generations only values run times and not dying which is really boring, serious missed opportunity there. P-06 is very close to being perfect, it really just needs to balance the point thresholds for each individual stage so that it doesn't just come down to kinda going for points and mostly not dying.

[@seematahir5970]

Honestly I think the ranking system in Shadow 05 works just fine for the kind of game it is. Its tempting to want to plow through as many enemies as possible, regardless of faction, because refilling the guages lets you abuse the chaos powers and infinite ammo, so having to stick to one faction and avoid certain activities makes you play more mindfully. And being so generous makes it much easier to unlock Expert Mode, which is a decently worthwhile reward. Its not as tight as SA2 because its trying to do its own thing, and imo it does it fairly decently.

[@williamwade2674]

babe wake up J’s reviews just uploaded a new sonic video

[@jarrellfamily1422]

Other games have ranking systems that handle it well I particularly like pizza tower for using it

[@Cejilmeister]

As someone who has all S-ranks in Colors DS and Rush Adventure, I can safely say SRA would be right up your alley.

[@FanicTheHedgehogYT]

Its how Crazy when you played Sonic Forces like that you get S rank for the First time by pressing Hold X to destroyed some enemies that gaves you extra score when you Completing the Level last for a Half minute long.

[@BrandonTeeWaiHoong]

Really crazy that!

[@lorenzo689]

"English mfer do you speak it?"

[@hamzamohamed6774]

1:07 the music is timed with the loop de loop

[@Mashu-Potato]

Good catch

[@Sparkys_World-0]

Thanks for the shoutout, this topic is endlessly fascinating! Lots of people in my comments were elaborating on what specifically makes SA2 uniquely engaging and fun. The more familiar I get with its design, the more obvious it becomes to me that this was Iizuka's attempt at evolving the score philosophy and gameplay loop of NiGHTS into Dreams (another game he was the lead designer of). It all comes back to what you mentioned at the start: optimising the sequences by playing as "smoothly and stylishly" as possible. The first lap will generally be slower and more exploratory as you feel out the challenges, while the subsequent laps will be tighter and more deliberate, interacting with as much as you can without disrupting your flow. Particularly the rollercoaster style set-piece moments seen in stages like Metal Harbor feel like direct iterations of things like the bobsled sequence in NiGHTS' Frozen Bell. One way I think NiGHTS triumphs over SA2 for me is it's much more fluid approach to failure states. There are no bottomless pits or split-second mistakes that totally end your run in NiGHTS; the punishments for screwing up are more proportionate to the level of risk the player takes on. This probably relates to how NiGHTS stages are generally much longer than the speed stages of SA2, but it definitely makes the game feel a bit more open and negotiable. I also think the decision to rank the player 4 times per stage PLUS a rank for boss completion was quite brilliant. The Alex Yard video "You Have Only Experienced 25% of Sonic 3" really reveals how this sort of design has existed in the games from at least as early as 3&K. Someone could probably make a Ranking mod for Sonic 3 that rewards you with "style points" for things like hitting Orbinauts with the insta-shield or nailing specific badnik chains without hitting the ground. Even a game like Sonic R, when played as a single-player platformer with a focus on collecting, is all about optimising the stage perfectly while maintaining your flow. Collecting ring trails, routing everything perfectly, using the right doors at the right times, etc. Unleashed is an even more *cracked* evolution of what SA2 did, going from "QTE lite" to "QTE MAX", with virtually every moment of the stage being a unique, reactive set-piece. People love to talk about the Sonic series getting hopelessly derailed from its original intentions, but if you look at the games chronologically (including NiGHTS), there's a pretty logical throughline of evolving game design from 1 to around Unleashed. It just evolved in a very different direction than some of us would have preferred lol. I think Telekinistic Man's video on the Stagnation of 3D Sonic is also an excellent op-ed on what specifcally from the original games was put aside by the series starting with SA1.

[@CarbonRollerCaco]

While your point about Sonic's gameplay evolution is true and significant as all Hell, I'd think it'd be obvious that people generally don't mean something so mega-gamer-y and indirectly pushed as replaying for mastery when talking about Sonic being derailed, but rather the more upfront things like the basic types of gameplay, the story-especially the characters and what they do and how they develop-and the overall tone. Those things Adventure 2 no doubt started to betray. But even apart from all of that, it's a derailment. Game-wise, Sonic is still a high-speed platformer first and a mastery game second. It's not like a sport or sports game where mastery is expected to be right on the same level of appeal as the type of action. What Adventure 2 did was flip that, giving priority to the mastery aspect and sacrificing how much of that mastery involves outright breakneck acrobatics. And sure, other games did cut down on that flip, but they never reined in the stuff having to do with characters and tone until the series was floundering from it, then they overcorrected with a singular focus on Sonic clowning on Eggman. It only makes sense to consider more common comments as likely referring to, well, things more commonly recognized.

[@BaronSterling]

Fun fact about Frontiers' 1-2 and why it was so notoriously hard: It's entirely unintentional. Due to Frontier's stiff air movement and lack of momentum from jumps (until they patched it later), the more difficult top path was actually significantly slower than the easier bottom path. So, for the vast majority of players who instinctively wanted to take on the higher-challenge routes as shortcuts, it was impossibly strict. But, if you didn't even bother doing any of the obvious tough jumps and just lazily sprint forward along the bottom, you'd get the S rank time almost immediately.

[@reconsider3735]

i think this is a bit underplayed on how tricky the S rank actually was. If you took the top path it was genuinely IMPOSSIBLE. The ONLY way you could get the S rank is through the bottom path in that initial segment. Saying you'd get the S rank almost immediately is NOT true, it was still incredibly tight timing-wise, even with the best routes being taken through the stage.

[@RaiginAnimator]

Also final comment (probably) Generations Has a time based ranking system the point was that If you reach the goal within a certain time you get an A rank not dying turns the A into an S. I know this because I’m not that good at the game and miss the requirements when I’m looking for red rings or just sucking.

[@phorchybug3286]

In my opinion, I think NiGHTS did a more interesting job with ranks. You can actually get a different ending if you get a C or better for every stage. Sounds more compelling than just HOORAY YOU'RE REALLY FAST! S-RANK!

[@MegaShadows007]

I reckon anyone who agrees with J on this topic should try Neon White. Having recently completed it myself with an Ace ranking on "most" levels, it has that combination of skill mastery with level design that rewards thinking outside the box. Plus the levels are short enough to not feel taxing if you restart due to missing a jump/ability It feels like the best of both worlds

[@demetriusnp49]

Another aspect to ranks as of current is kinda the reason the need to get higher ranks is superfluous to the casual gamer: They kinda do nothing. Granted the feeling of nailing a stage and rank should be to ones satisfaction, but back then higher ranks unlocked stuff in the Black Market, Characters for VS an Expert Mode and harder stages in Unleashed case with medals. Nowadays aside from getting vault keys(which Big is there) or points for moves(which OG gens has in spades), you kinda dont feel obligated to get higher ranks. Back then for the Final Story, you needed all Emeralds or complete both sides of the story(which felt like Sega’s arcade roots). For Shadow Gens, it looks like it’s all Time sensitive and the perfect bonus is gone, so no penalty for dying or getting hit aside time loss. If the ranks is all for bragging rights, why get them? They should at least do something worth investing replaying the levels again. And that’s kinda an issues with current Sonic with most content being single player. The lack of multiplayer, side modes and whatnot where the higher ranks could make sense…replayability is somewhat nonexistent.

[@Evets_03]

If this means anything to you, I finally found the first and second video games I ever played which was the revenge of shinobi and the og sonic and which console it was on. After a lot of digging and research + based off my memory, I almost certainly played the games on the sega smash pack volume 1 on the Dreamcast.

[@JackofBlades500]

There is no doubt in my mind that a large part of my love for Sonic Adventure 2 has to do with the ranking system. Finding many tricks and shortcuts to get the best rank on a game is such a rewarding and fulfilling experience, even with all the perks.

[@BillintonE2FromBrighton]

You begin this video by mentioning a 7 hour video essay on Sonic CD. I know what video I'm watching next

[@richardsphd]

You didn't talk about Generations' bonus missions, who also have Ranks. And I know for a fact some of them kick your ass. The race against the ghost missions in particulat involve you just playing the normal stages, but the requirements for S are absuredly fast.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

THIS 👍 I got all S-Ranks on Generations twice(for the missions)

[@cassandramaccarthy3337]

I think Shadow Gens' rankings are entirely based on speed, based on Fadel's footage

[@stanzacosmi]

which matches base gens

[@JasLamArr91]

Great video! It actually made me appreciate those aspects of the games.

[@SonicMan2007]

If you play it on PC, download the Hedge Mod Manager and turn on the "Use Extreme Mode only S Rank times" for Sonic Frontiers and try the Cyber Space levels without using the Spin Dash. It was one of the most challenging experiences I ever had playing any Sonic game.

[@RaiginAnimator]

I was hoping you’d drop something sonic related again!

[@codified_]

I have S ranked all of Sonic Unleashed recently, and I mean ALL OF IT, regular acts, day and night, side levels, Eggmanland, bosses, Tornado defense 1/2 and all DLC levels Unleashed already was a game I loved, that's why I made it my mission to get them all, but holy hell, this gave me a whole new perspective on the game S ranking Unleashed, as J's said, really forces you to understand the level and maximize everything as much as possible, my favorite example is the 3-lane laser robots, that seems like a weird, overused and boring obstacle at first, but when playing for the S ranks it's an amazing game of risk and reward. You don't just dodge the very telegraphed lasers, now you are looking for opening to hit robots on the ground to destroy the flying ones, as that's two enemies worth of score, now you are frantically dodging every laser, wall of fire or line of electricity to avoid losing your rings while hitting the enemies frames before the laser goes past you In terms of DLC, long levels where staying alive is part of the challenge are pretty easy to S rank... as long as you know and master the best paths, the ones where getting hit and dying is more likely in the first place, Arid Sands 1-2 being my favorite example, while short levels are like a fun puzzle, using every bit of enemies, rings and rainbow rings to gather just enough for the S rank, Rooftop Run Act 5 being the best example for me Seriously, Sonic Unleashed gets EVEN BETTER when trying to go for the S ranks, but there are some caveats to that: 1. Some levels are boring or frustrating, Arid Sands Act 3 and Dragon Road Act 2-2 are great examples of each one respectively 2. Night levels are not interesting to S rank, the DLC levels are fun for the most part but they require a maxed out Werehog and the fun comes from playing the level, not getting the S rank. That's because the system has the issue of Critical Hits, those finishers where you do some QTEs, they give so many points that they beat the S rank requirements twice 3. This is really time consuming, it took me close to a month. Granted, I was not focusing on that, I was playing other stuff, but it's still a lot 4. It really requires you already loving Sonic Unleashed, but I'd say that even if you hate the Werehog, getting them for the day stages alone is worth it This experience has made me reconsider how I play Sonic games, and from now on, when I feel like playing another Sonic game, I'm planning to dive into the score/ranking system of those games, as that made Unleashed that much better for me. It's really hard, but I really recommend giving Unleashed S ranks a try

[@kiranoah]

Yeah I remember trying to S rank the night stages and for the DLCs I just had to do all the QTEs to get the most points possible. I remember playing Windmill Isle Night Act 1-3 for the first time and that’s when I realized I needed to max out the Werehog. And for me one of the hardest DLC day stages to get an S rank was Cool Edge Day Act 3 cause of how awkward the drifting mechanic is on ice in Unleashed.

[@shanerowsley]

My favorite sonic game is sonic colors for the DS, and most of that came from the ranking. You had most points going for speed, but also got points for using wisps and having rings by the end of the stage. Speed is the dominant factor, but the safety nets the other two factors are undeniably useful and help make routing the stages more interesting. It was quite hard getting every S rank but it was extremely rewarding. Not to mention getting an A or S rank gave you extra lives, which if you're consistently getting A ranks you probably don't need the lives, but it's a nice incentive for casual players as well.

[@RedLegend13]

Great video! You pretty much described my thoughts on SA2’s ranking system word per word. I think what puts it above all the other games is how the game subtly encourages you to perform certain actions and rewards you for it. It’s really satisfying to do certain things just cuz they look cool, only to see the devs actually accounted for that and get bonus points for it. Like the game is dynamically reacting to your play.

[@Mohamed58290]

To me pyramid cave is the best stage in SA2 just because of how good the music is

[@notasquiremario3299]

I remember when I was a kid and me and my brother checked if Speed or Points mattered more in Sonic Color's rank system. We found that points mattered more and were disappointed. We thought speed should matter more or be the only factor. But years later after Frontiers came out, I think having a balance of both (with speed still being a higher factor) would make for a more engaging system, something that SA2 did years ago. Weird they never brought it back.

[@sauce987654321]

Time gives you points in Colors. It doesn’t tell you exactly how much, but it does. One time I ran through a level getting nothing and waiting 20s next to the goal to test this, and I got around 100,000 points. When I did the same thing but without waiting, then I got almost 400,000 points. Anyway, a lot of platformers calculate your rank/have time trials by speed only. Games like Donkey Kong, Rayman, Crash Bandicoot, and even Megaman games do this. I do think Sonic games should rank you purely on speed, and should be as strict as possible for the highest rank. They could have a “score” trial/attack as a mission where it’s a balance of both.

[@mak_707]

The funny thing about Generations is it motivates you to speedrun it because it's so good.

[@Ivan210bluboi]

I mean... The ranking system technically started out in the time attack mode of Sonic Pocket Adventure.

[@trapez77]

How are players supposed to know that getting more hints in knuckles stages, lowers your score?

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Sonic Generations is also my favorite officially released Sonic game!

[@PoyoTheBoyo]

It's really crazy seeing this thought piece because I feel like I rarely if ever see discussion around this subject and your thoughts very much mirror my own. The ranking system for Unleashed truly elevated the experience of playing its levels because as you said it forces you to engage with various aspects about it. It wasn't until I got my first S rank in Generations in Empire City ( Unleashed Project mod ) did I finally understand the joy of speed running a stage. Learning all the ins and outs and strategizing and executing to get the best time possible was extremely fun and I had a whole new love and appreciation for those stages. Genuinely hope they re-embrace tough ranking systems like that going forward.

[@jboyathegamer]

The underrated part for all the sonic games is the gameplay and the music

[@RefreshingMirage]

I’m hoping the rankings for Shadow Generations are good, that’s all I have to say

[@tivvy2vs21]

Currently playih 06 and really enjoying it, Xenia and the mod loader can work wonders I wish sonic games had a time ranking and a score ranking, letters for the score and medals for the time, cause good times and scores are kinda mutually exclusive

[@Jemini.W]

It’s funny cause once you look at others ways to challenge yourself outside of getting a fast time in a sonic level, pretty much every game becomes a more enjoyable experience. Even games like forces and Lost World. The devs just didn’t tie a tangible reward behind any of these challenges that could have existed so it’s just untapped potential

[@sikosonix901]

I love Generations with all my heart, but I have to agree with you here (except for the planet Wisp take, that level is fire). For anyone who feels the same, I highly recommend you use the Unleashed scoring system mod. It does what it says on the cover, both for the vanilla stages and the Unleashed Project. Edit: also, I've seen some gameplay from Shadow Generations, and it seems like the ranking system will be better than Sonic Generations. From the footage, it still seems to be time based, but it's a lot more strict. Gamescage did a pretty good job in Space Colony Ark Act 1, but messed up a few times, so he got a C.

[@sauce987654321]

Honestly I’m more lenient when it comes to a ranking system like Generations when they have online leaderboards to compete with. I agree that ranking system should be a lot more strict, however.

[@Oracle3331]

Difficult ranking systems are such a perfect addition for Sonic games. You can keep the levels relatively easy to clear for kids and more casual players, and really ramp up the difficulty with the ranking system for the more dedicated players. It just lines up so well with the various different playerbases these games have.

[@minty6623]

I'm never gonna get tired of JR talking and mentioning P06

[@mixie5915]

This was less underrated and more mini reviews of every game and their ranking systems

[@justinhurowitz70]

I disagree about Lost World, I think it would've benefited a lot from a score-based ranking system like what Colors had. Most stages in Lost World are designed in a similar way to Colors. There's an easy, direct path to the goal and then a bunch of optional challenges off the beaten path that reward you with Rings, Lives, Flickies, or Red Rings, all of which add to your score. The game has a whole score system built-in, but for some reason there's no reward for it and the game doesn't even track your best score in a level, just the total amount of points you've gotten on that file. With S Ranks being pure time trials, there's no real reason to engage with the bulk of the game's level design on replays once you've unlocked Super Sonic.

[@Itz_Kwame]

Sa2 isn’t the best sonic game because of the gripping story, engaging level design, art style, or amazing music It’s the best sonic game because it has a ranking system that fairly challenges you despite the linear level design ONTOP of the things I mentioned

[@XEclipse360]

I can see why people like the challenge but I don't really enjoy a lot of the levels in general.

[@kaspertheshepherd3010]

Im so glad you saw the 7 hour cd vid its literally the best video on KZbin 😭

[@looygibros_060]

Yay a sonic video

[@MasterDisaster64]

Sonic could do well with a ranking system like DMC3, with separate ranks for each category which are then averaged together. That way you need to do well enough at everything, but you can specialize more in time, rings etc. depending on your preference. Also gives you clear points to improve on.

[@bananabike279]

Great video, this topic rarely gets talked about!

[@cameurysm]

im so glad you brought up 1-2 in sonic frontiers bc i thought i was missing something in it with how much fucking harder it is than every other cyber space stage

[@hamzamohamed6774]

21:20 feels like sonic is dancing to city escape

[@thevioletskull8158]

Since in Shadow X Sonic generations is putting in ranks,I hope they have bonus content like when you get all S ranks,you get like a bonus level or something.

[@jraymark7739]

Something about Frontiers, after beating the Boss Rush with the highest ranks you unlock Extreme mode, that becomes the game a One-Hit KO and also decreases the time needed for a higher rank in Cyberspace

[@Something_Maybe]

I really wish Mania had a ranking system and Origins added ranks to the classic games

[@kaosagamerreal]

great video! i reccommend playing the cyberspace levels in extreme difficulty, the S ranks are made as strict as 1-2 and its a lot more fun and feels like what they shouldve done

[@ethejumper6568]

Timestamps: 1:14 Sonic Adventure 2 8:08 Sonic Heroes 10:19 Shadow the Hedgehog 12:09 Sonic The Hedgehog 2006 14:40 Sonic Project-06 16:17 Sonic Unleashed 19:04 Sonic Colors 20:55 Sonic Generations 21:59 Sonic Lost World 22:31 Sonic Forces 22:48 Sonic Frontiers

[@JustJulyo]

Unpopular opinion: I never liked the Chaos emeralds levels

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Respectable

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

It's such a funny juxtaposition how Generations is the best 3D game by a country mile, yet the ranking system is by far the worst because it's so brain-dead.

[@PyraJord]

Soo im going for all S-Ranks in Sonic 06 atm to get all the achievements... im a freaking masochist 😂

[@daviddamasceno6063]

To be honest... This is one aspect of Sonic games I don't give much thought about. I beat the levels, I see the rank, I think "Meh, who cares." and I'm on to the next level. I'm usually more interested in beating the game, and maybe getting all the collectables. The exception might have been Unleashed, in which the day stages were so awesome I wanted to learn how to play them all at top speed, so I replayed them until perfection. I think making me interested in getting a good rank speaks a lot for the quality of that game.

[@toumabyakuya]

Eh, I prefer Color's approach to the Ranking system. Is not as hard as SA2 but it doesn't need to be, making it that hard just gates a lot of people and makes it so that not everybody can 100% every single game.

[@emiliciachan]

The most underrated part of every Sonic game is 100% completionism I read that correctly right Bruh what Wouldnt that be the best part of any game ever

[@SonicTheCutehog]

Some games are not fun to 100% complete

[@Hyp3rSonic]

​@@SonicTheCutehogagree

[@emiliciachan]

@@SonicTheCutehog Understandable and Valid

[@khaotix64]

Actuality in 06 there are different time bonuses depending on if you play in story mode or act trial. Thats probably why you got 0 time bonus in Kingdom Valley. Story mode is super low but act trial has way more leniency in terms of time

[@darkychao]

6:34 not every game, just every 3D game. I'm still a little disappointed that Mania didn't have a time trials medal system or anything like most of the Dimps/SNK titles did.

[@skx444]

1-2 is the most fun I had in all of frontiers due to the S rank condition. It felt so communal and exciting and I was so dissapointed there was nothing else like it.

[@realnova7429]

The ranking system is what gives Sonic it's sense, let me explain: every stages based game need a replay reason, Mario and other 3D platformers make you replay the stages by giving you a different objective every time and/or hiding collectables, Sonic makes you replay the stages by the ranking system, it is the only game type that requires you to become better at them, but only if they are hard to get, and also the ranking system needs to make sense for the type of stage you are playing, in stages like Colors it made no sense to just skip every wisp opportunity, so it capitalized more on score, Unleashed is very fast and has a great rings system so its based upon rings and speed, and so on.

[@terrysyvertson9205]

getting A rank on all missions on all stages in sonic adventure 2 unlocks green hill zone

[@hall1009]

For the Werehog in Unleashed getting an S ranking is even more trivial if you do the special finishes on enemy as often as possible. There have been stages were I've gotten almost double the amount of points needed for an S rank by just killing every enemy I can that way, it's incredibly unbalanced.

[@slashingkatie7872]

It’s a lot like Platinum relics in Crash. It’s about replaying and getting better each time.

[@papersonic9941]

My problem with score-based ranking is that it can ironically disincourage speedrunning. A lot of times in SA2 I blast through a stage, get a B, then try again while slowing down to smash robots and suddenly get an A.

[@CodeFlickLive]

So true about 1-2 in Frontiers. That was something special

[@tokinstoner]

You talking about and showing your route for sonic frontiers had me out loud saying "yuppp" I still haven't gotten the time for it, I'm off by 2 seconds 😢

[@Your_LocalWizard]

The fundamental misstep of Frontiers' cyberspace stages is the fact that S ranks are pretty much required. In expert mode they made the S rank requirements way stricter and it's way more rewarding to play as a result.

[@icesonic358]

Yep which is why I like extreme mode. We Need More Hardmodes in Sonic imo of course

[@PauClaireIsUnderratedAF]

Sonic 1: Star Light Zone Sonic CD: Stardust Speedway Good Future's US music Sonic 2: Emerald Hill Zone's song Sonic 3: The prototype music Sonic and Knuckles: The Brad Buxer track replacements Sonic Mania: & Knuckles mode Sonic Superstars: The true final boss music Haven't played the others

[@TeeTop_]

3:08 I've never seen that!

[@Slagdar]

The one thing I found that held Sonic Heroes back was the size of the levels. The length of every single one of them is Monsterous and it kills the joy of replayability when going for A-Ranks. SA2B's Green forest or City Escape are roughly in the 3 minutes which means a screwup only takes 1 to 2 minutes to correct. Meanwhile SH has an avarage of 6 minutes per stage and messing up at the 5 minute mark really leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

[@SonicTheCutehog]

You don't even need to get all five Red Star Rings to get an S Rank in Colors (for some levels, it's even impossible to get them all in one run). It's a point requirement that getting a good amount of them helps you get S Ranks.

[@quillllly]

I was never able to enjoy SA2 *until* I tried going for the A ranks. By the end of City Escape I could already tell how much more enjoyable it was (for me) to play for good ranks. It's just fun to master the stages and learn all the little tricks you can do to maximize score while still moving fast. Out of the Sonic games where I've tried going for good ranks SA2 definitely had the best ranking system by a long shot, and my only real problem was how horrible your rank will be if you die at any point in the level since your score gets completely reset. Other than that though it's pretty well balanced and I really enjoy it.

[@quillllly]

This video has also really sold me on Sonic Unleashed, if only I had a good way to actually play the game :(

[@Dark_0verlord]

9:25 What playing the GameCube version does to a mf: Jokes aside, even if I'm not as fond of SA2 as many are, its ranking system is easily one of the game's biggest strengths and it definitely deserves its praise (also I *LOVE* the concept of the Gold Beetle. That's something SA2 has over Heroes for sure). As the #1 Sonic Heroes fan, obviously Heroes has my favourite ranking system, but Adventure 2's is definitely up there (and even though I haven't played Unleashed, you description of the Day Stage S ranks helps me understand why those levels are so beloved). Hopefully Shadow Generations brings back the tradition of challenging rankings. On a somewhat related topic, as part of a sonic-inspired game I'm designing, I also wish to include a ranking system in it. One of my biggest complaints with post Unleashed 3D Sonic games and most 3D Sonic fangames is how inconsequential the enemies can feel. It really feels like most of the enemies could just be removed or replaced with objects and nothing would change. I like how Sonic Heroes handled its enemies, but I also acknowledge how some people found the combat to be pace-breaking. I think I have a solution to this problem, that being to make the enemies threatening and challenging, but make fighting them entirely optional. As for how this ties into the ranking system, there would be two types of ranks: A Time Rank, and a Score Rank. Time Ranks would purely be about completing the level as quickly as possible, finding the best route and mastering the character's movement abilities. Score Ranks would be similar to Sonic Heroes, where you still need to be fast for the time bonus, but you also need to engage the enemies in combat. You need to find the secret 'Gold Beetle' enemy for its points, and you need to find the collectibles in the level for score bonuses, similar to Sonic Colours. You also need to not take any damage to get the no damage bonus. This way, you appease the players who simply like to move through levels quickly while also pleasing the players who enjoy exploring levels and fighting enemies. It's a win-win I reckon. It also doesn't feel like padding because both types of ranks offer completely different styles of gameplay, making you view the level from 2 totally different perspectives.

[@bonafidecobra]

Tbh, I never really minded the set 50k requirement in 06. It gave me a consistent goal to strive for when playing as a kid. Also when playing as Shadow, when your homing attack hits an enemy from too far a distance, the combo attack won’t register. It’s weird but you usually hear a certain noise when it happens(like when the Iblis Worm swung it’s neck after you hit it)

[@jskywalker58]

agree i don't really think 50k is asking too much

[@dudujencarelli]

You should do a video on the DS games. Boss fights aside, those games (Rush, Rush Adventure and Colors DS) were insanely fun to replay and S-Rank, especially with the trick system. As for Sonic Heroes, leveling up the characters at checkpoints is one of the most engaging aspects of that game when going for the A ranks.

[@dudujencarelli]

As for Shadow being so easy to A-Rank, that's probably for two reasons: Adventure 2 could be insanely frustrating with the rank requirements, and Shadow's janky camera, controls and homing attack and enemies dropping in out of nowhere with no room to dodge probably played a factor in their choice to dial down the rank requirements.

[@KaleBennett]

The ranking system is definitely underrated. I've always appreciated games giving me an insentive to do better, which I think is part of why I don't really enjoy Classic Sonic games as much on subsequent playthroughs: They're too easy to struggle with and, since I'm not a speedrunner, there's no reason to keep at peak performance. Even Generations, despite how easy the S Ranks are, gets me to restart the level if I die, unlike the Classic games where I just push through. I also appreciate when the system is based on score and not time, since it encourages you to more actively engage with the level as opposed to just ignoring everything and skipping over as much of the level as possible.

[@realnova7429]

Rush and Rush Adventure ranking system were top notch, perfectly calibrated.

[@hoodierae5371]

Been fiending for a sonic vid for 2 weeks

[@lostemeraldshard2599]

I personally believe that playing Sonic games for time and score separately is the best way. Every game should have a time attack mode and score attack mode with their own respective ranking systems to boot. If every time attack mode had strict times like Frontier's 1-2 for every level, that would be perfect. And if the score attack was a combination of P-06's score system and SA2s stage-by-stage ranking system, that'd also be perfect. I think both should have a time limit though. P-06 for example you can consistently get S ranks while having 0 time bonus points and that doesn't feel right, nor does it feel right achieveing 50,000 points for an easy S rank starting from Sonic's mach speed section in Crisis City even after dying. Love the P-06 score system, my entire channel showcases that more than anyone's, but its flawed, and needs adjusting in the final release. The best score and ranking systen in my opinion would be a combination of SA2s, Unleashed's and P-06's. Each stage having their own S rank requirements that are strict and force you to utilize the mechanics to their fullest and think outside the box when playing the stages, a good combo chain system that rewards you for chaining actions together whether that be killing enemies in one chain or that and interecting with level gimmicks in chains as well, a ring bonus, a time bonus, and you got yourself a perfect ranking system.

[@kaspertheshepherd3010]

YES

[@johnpett1955]

Sa2 is the only Sonic game I've 100%ed, and I'm like 90% sure I wouldn't want to do it if it wasn't so well designed.

[@uneedrambo716]

I will die on the hill of planet wisp act 2 being a great level

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Yeah, even if i dont prefer to get good ranks(in most cases) It's definitely very interesting and complex?

[@السراقالمجهول]

ngl S ranking sonic rush is also super fun (save the bosses, the only one where i got an S is the blaze fight cause she glitched in the corner for some reason lol)

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Scores reached would give Extra Lives or Continues in Sonic1-3&Knuckles, maybe Mania

[@gundambassexe31]

The ranking system. Xd yes don't think about it