The Mystery of John Carter of Mars

[@charliedogg7683]

"The Flight Of The Valkyries" (without helicopter gunships) as intro music: very nice. What a fascinating insight into John Carter this is Michael. I've read "A Princess Of Mars" but never gave Carter's origins much thought, however you're correct in highlighting those areas of his past in which there are holes - the pieces aren't all there and therefore everything doesn't fit together seamlessly.

[@themaninblack7503]

Mars is such a violent place that no one dies of old age.

[@kdj3000]

Yep, he is the forgotten aspect of the Eternal Champion.😄

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Yes!

[@hisforheretic1765]

I used to want answers, then Marvel gave us James Howlett. Sometimes it is best to leave things alone.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Good point.

[@jonathanburrell5436]

Thank you for this. Your knowledge on EBR is only surpassed by open and friendly delivery of the subject. Keep up the great deep dive. Thanks to you I have purchased all the Tarzan books, all the Barsoon novels, all the venus , moon, pellucidar, mucker, and time forgot books. My soul thanks you. My wallet fears you 😂.

[@BookChatWithPat8668]

Another brilliant episode, Michael. I have read the Barsoom series this year because of you. Thank you!

[@secretfirebooks7894]

Started reading ERB this year with Tarzan of the Apes. Gotta jump on that Barsoom hype train now. Thank you for reminding me, Sir Michael! 👍

[@GrammaticusBooks]

More evidence that you are the repository of all knowledge concerning Edgar Rice Burroughs and John Carter of Mars!

[@sPitternaut]

A few pet theories I've had. -Since the whole book is written in retrosPect, John was never an "ageless immortal" until he died in the mystery cave and reappeared on Mars. He just developed a form of amnesia where the further back he recalls, the less he can remember; like how your dreams before waking up are your most vivid. -He was born in Virginia to the Roanoke colony who disappeared from North Carolina under MyStErIoUs circumstances and it ties into his immortality.

[@onlyabusemejaegs]

Edwin Arnold also wrote a book in 1905 called Gullivar of Mars. The protagonist is a confederate officer who arrives on mars with a magic carpet and falls in love with a martian princess.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Jones served in the United States Navy, actually.

[@NP-Hunt]

This series of videos kicks ass! Thanks Michael

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Thank you, NP!

[@zephlodwick1009]

Carson Napier, hero of the Venusian Series of ERB, also has magical abilities, albeit learnt instead of innate. He learnt a way to send his mind out of his body, and even create ghostly apparitions, from a hindoo guru who worked for Napier's parents, which is how he planned to send word of Mars back to Earth. For some reason, he never again thinks to use this fantastical power on Venus.

[@Wastelandman7000]

I'm reminded of The Shadow. While its at one point much later in the series it states that The Shadow is Kent Allard, was he? Or was that another false trail to throw his enemies off the scent? He was a man with no past who just was. So mystery men who just appear from nowhere are a known plot device. In the end I'm not sure it matters. Carter is the man who just exists. He is a human BEING. A man of the present who doesn't concern himself with the unchangeable past or the unknowable future. He exists in the now. And is content. And so long as the readers are likewise content, all is well.

[@freelivefree7221]

He's part of a race of immortals who must battle to the death who can only die of beheading.Cue the theme music to Highlander. The thing about ERB is if you stop and think about his work there is a lot of stuff that doesn't necessarily make sense but you get so invested in his work it doesn't matter.

[@brianthomas2434]

Absolutely agree. I only read the first two Tarzan novels. ERB was no stylist and Jane's Mammy servant was pure cringe. But I kept turning pages. As for things that make no sense , consider how he teaches himself to read. The words he picks out are conveniently accompanied by pictures....But since he's never HEARD English, how does he know what they sound like?

[@peterpuleo2904]

These novels are still worth reading today. I remember reading a few over 50 years ago when I was a college student. Where does the time go?

[@jonathanburrell5436]

Somedays, I forget how old I am, then try to get up, and then I remember.

[@brianthomas2434]

You and me both, buddy.

[@peterpuleo2904]

If you can get up, you aren't that old yet.

[@إسماعيلسعيد-خ8ذ]

Excellent video. Excellent Choice of music from Richard Wagner

[@SEKreiver]

John Carter was an admitted influence on Superman. As I've noted elsewhere, APoM was ERB's first novel and he was throwing the kitchen sink in there. Telepathy and guns that shoot to the horizon are SEVERELY curtailed in later Barsoom novels. He was learning on the job.

[@manofaction1807]

That's a great book series. Tars Tarkass was my first Alien friend. That book series was my second hard core Sci Fi series of books I've read. Doc Savage was my First.

[@DaleRibbons]

My explanation: PTSD. He has gone through a lot of stuff, including being bounced from world and world, thrown into one dangerous situation after another with little rest between, all the wonders and horrors he's seen, it's all had an effect on his psyche. He's been able to recover and retain his sanity, but there are little cracks, like the strange, out-of-nowhere thought he's immortal. Another thought: the immortality didn't start until after he reached Mars and is part of the super-powers he gains there. Yet another: it's hyperbole. He's been through so much even before going to Mars, but has retained his health, vigor, and youthful appearance, so he just feels like he's immortal.

[@craiggerrard5117]

All sound plausible to me.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

John Carter doesn’t seem like he would be the type to suffer from PTSD.

[@thetetrarchofapathy9728]

The novel purports to be written by his "nephew" (grand-nephew or beyond, actually) Edgar Rice Burroughs who claims himself (as the narrator) to have been st least the third generation of his family to have been bounced-on-the-knee (a toddler horseriding game) of "Uncle" John.

[@sonic31century1]

In my personal head cannon, the surprise in the safe contained the unpublished manuscript of the origin of John Carter. One manuscript that was found back in 1963 inside Burroughs' safe was called _I_ _Am_ _A_ _Barbarian_ . If Burroughs had lived longer, I believe he would have revealed this to be the origin of John Carter. This is a tale narrated by the slave Britannicus in Caligula's court. His true name is never given. He was a boy in Britain who is enslaved by the Romans and is renamed Britannicus. He is very strong. He fights and wins in an arena. He grows to manhood. He survives the events of the book. In my personal head cannon, in the years following the end of the book, Britannicus wanders around the Earth where he eventually forgets his past. At some point he finds some way to stop aging. He has many names. He is always a warrior. He fights in many wars.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Interesting. I Am A Barbarian is an excellent book.

[@TheAtlanteanArchive]

I came up with a story idea once about an immortal man who goes through a 120-year cycle, where he ages (albeit more slowly than mortals), and then goes into a sort of hibernation in which his body rejuvenates. This guy remembers his previous 'lives,' but maybe John Carter goes through something similar and doesn't remember his former lives. It's too bad that Burroughs didn't leave us with a hint as to what he was thinking, but there are a lot of possibilities.

[@4ns3lm09]

Amazing idea, i think you should write something with that, i would read it

[@TheAtlanteanArchive]

@@4ns3lm09 Thanks! It may yet happen.

[@TheAtlanteanArchive]

@@4ns3lm09 Thanks! It may actually happen at some point.

[@jamesbarberousse8396]

John Carter is a cyborg from the future with mysterious powers, obviously.

[@Dr.GrahamSuperstar]

In my version, Barsoom is a hallucination provided by John Carter’s Deity.

[@MysteryandMayhem-gr7nn]

My theory always was that he was a Martian, but you're right. If he was a Martian, he wouldn't have had the enhanced powers that he had once he transported from Earth to Barsoom. I'm not sure even Burroughs knew the origins of his own character, or he would have shared that with us eventually. Thanks, Michael! Good episode!

[@thatonkgau5221]

I think a somewhat simple explanation for his immortality is that maybe one of the immortal Therns came to earth. To prepare the planet for their arrival, this thern would fall in love with a human and have a child. This child would be Johns mother, making him part human and alien. Since he's only a quarter thern he doesn't have there full abilities but he does age slower than normal humans.

[@jesustenes2]

if a martian was brought to the Earth as a baby I can see how its body would adapt to handle the earth's gravity as it grows, so I can see him being a martian, the same way we humans develop differences depending on where we grow up (e.g. lung and thorax volumes in children growing up at high altitude are increased)

[@bertorosso5377]

I think he likely IS in fact immortal. John Carter probably became so by Mr. Burroughs relating his amazing story to us in "A Princess of Mars"--which will probably be read until the end of time (thus making him, in a sense, immortal).

[@w.adammandelbaum1805]

Guy is even older than Jimmy Carter.

[@bookfantastic]

You are probably correct that Burroughs just created this characteristic of this character on a first book whim or to express his current feelings about aging. I suspect that, as the series progressed, Burroughs would have avoided dwelling on immortality, since this kind of takes the wind of suspense out of the sail of looming death. But, then again, if, in reality, humanity were to cure the aging problem as well as most diseases, one might consider himself immortal, but he or she could still get smashed by a bus after stepping off the wrong curb or could certainly die in battle. So there are ways to preserve suspense. Forgive me for rambling here. Sort of like why most horror novels are not often written in the first person. The narrator survived to tell the tale, so why should we readers worry about him or her? So occasionally in the first person the narrator makes you worry about some other character such as the kidnapped baby in Dan Simmon's The Song of Kali (I can't recall if this was written in the first person, but that baby sure had me worried).

[@dylantindall5573]

A mortal transformed! Immortality forged in the rememberance of a well told tale half-told.

[@joshjacob1530]

15:15 so true

[@joshjacob1530]

1:52 so deep

[@tonette6592]

Thanks...I ALMOST considered reading John Carter. You should really been consulting Roger about immortality.

[@ironjade]

There's a mystery at the start of Tarzan of the Apes: the narrator has been told the story by someone who had no right to do so. In one of the Venus books, Carson Napier meets a mysterious woman who disappears and we learn from a newspaper article that she died in a fire back on Earth. ERB never elaborated on either.

[@thetetrarchofapathy9728]

The novel purports to be written by his "nephew" (grand-nephew or beyond, actually) Edgar Rice Burroughs who claims himself (as the narrator) to have been st least the third generation of his family to have been bounced-on-the-knee (a toddler horseriding game) of "Uncle" John. It pretends to have at least second-party verification. The inability of Barsoomians to perceive his thoughts when he doesn't want them to do so (Barsoomian language is described as a mix of telepathic and verbal communication) always hinted he wasn't full barsoomian, if any. As Barsoomians all appear to stop aging about the age of adulthood (until near the end of their lifespans) and hecstopped about 30. I put this all together and assume some hybrid parentage explanation, barring any other explanation (ancient white barsoomian experiments, etc.).

[@pietrayday9915]

I don't think you're wrong - in fact, I always had the impression that the Barsoomians were human, or rather, humans were actually Martians, stranded on Earth in antiquity when the great, far more ancient Martian civilization collapsed and the doors between the two worlds were closed. Those Barsoomians left behind on Earth would have struggled under the higher gravity and become virtual supermen compared to their Martian ancestors, at the cost of aging and dying younger on Earth.... That leaves John Carter as something of an oddity: he seems to somehow still be more Martian than Earthling, but still benefits from the great strength of Earthly man. Then again, which Martians are we comparing John Carter to? In truth, it seems like we discover new varieties of Martians in almost every Barsoom novel: the more or less relatable Red Martians, the great savage alien Green Martians, the monstrous and decadent Black and White Martians.... I always read an implied kinship between the Red Martians and the native Americans of Arizona and elsewhere in the Americas, and assumed that other Martian races populated other parts of the Earth, so perhaps John Carter represents some rare, maybe extinct breed of Martian that all but disappeared from Mars long before the calamity of the drying oceans doomed Martian civilization to collapse, but perhaps still remained in small, rarified numbers hidden somewhere on Mars, on Earth, or maybe on one of the other Solar planets, for John Carter to be reunited with them and lead them and all of Solar humanity to the beginning of a golden new age of civilization, in much the same way that the decadent Black and White Martians lay hidden in strange vaults of horror deep under the Martian surface, conspiring and plotting their way toward an age of darkness and cruelty, with only John Carter to stand in their way! There's little or no evidence for it in Burroughs' stories, of course, but one can't help wondering whether, given enough time to write further adventures and drop more hints, Burroughs might have given us more solid hints in that direction!

[@FirstnameLastname-my7bz]

Also one of the first J.C. characters.

[@allenj-r6607]

So profound!

[@sleestack13]

I read the first 4 or 5 of John Norman's GOR books in the 80's as an adolescent. It's basically the Barsoom series with "hot slave-girls" thrown in to appeal to 14 year old boys. A video of similarities between the 2 series' might be interesting.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

I think I would rather die than read the Gor books again.

[@sleestack13]

@@michaelk.vaughan8617 So I guess GORvember is off the table for you then? LOL.

[@LionquestFitness]

@@michaelk.vaughan8617 Ditto.

[@ButOneThingIsNeedful]

What is your favorite ERB series, and which are your very favorite volumes? I'm looking through your videos to try to find out.

[@occultdetective]

There can be only one, naturally.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Naturally!

[@xboomer3004]

I would like to see more movies made...

[@pietrayday9915]

Nice video - this was a great book series, and I rather enjoyed the (underrated) film! I like that Carter's origins are left to the imagination, I don't think they needed to be explained, and it's fun to wonder about it. I get the impression in any case that the Martians are in fact human - I always assumed there was supposed to be an implied kinship between the red men of Mars and the red men of the American frontier, given that there seemed to be an (astral?) gate between the two worlds in the American west: it seemed to me to be an implied quasi-Atlantean Theosophical Ancient Astronaut kind of thing where travel between the two worlds was a thing and similarities between the two populations were much greater, before the post-apocalyptic doom befell the Martian climate and contact with Earth was lost. At least, that's the backstory I always read into it! Then again, the very nature of how John Carter's travels between Mars and Earth actually worked seems kind of mysterious, too - I'm not entirely sure it's meant to be taken as purely physical travel between the two worlds, I kinda got the impression Carter's body was left behind, sleeping on Earth, so what happens on Mars? Does he take over an alien body? Materialize a new body? Is Barsoom actually Mars as we know it, or a sort of alternate dimension or astral dream land? Burroughs seems to handwave the details - the origin story is less interesting to Burroughs than the intrigue, action and adventure once Carter arrives on Mars, I think - but those details are still fun to try to work out or imagine! John Carter's opening paragraph as quoted in this video seems to even hint at a bit of reincarnation and and unrecovered memories of past lives! There's no direct evidence, but for a little indirect support for the Theosophical angle, I'll point here to John Carter's literary descendant in H.P. Lovecraft's Randolph Carter, apparently something of an homage to Burroughs' very popular original character (Lovecraft and his friend Robert E. "Conan the Barbarian" Howard were surely both familiar with Burroughs' Tarzan and/or John Carter, if not fans!), who travels to strange, alien Dreamlands of surreal, nightmarish horror and wonder while in a sort of deep slumber reached through what sounds for all the world like lucid dreaming and astral projection. Lovecraft seems to have run into Theosophical literature that likely touched on those subjects, and though Lovecraft considered it to be lively balderdash, he nevertheless was fascinated by the imagination it could inspire, and would write a lot of his later fiction as something of an affectionate parody of Theosophical 'tropes"... Theosophy seems to have been all the rage in Lovecraft's day, a lot of contemporary pulp writers would come to take it more or less seriously as a source of inspiration for the evolving science fiction and fantasy and comic genres to the point where a lot of later science fiction seemed to run more seriously on Theosophical tropes like alien super-races and ancient astronaut gurus intervening in man's (spiritual) evolution and all the weird crystal spires and togas sort of aesthetic you'd see in "The Martian Chronicles" or "Star Trek" (original Series) or "Superman" (who seems to have begun his literary life as another John Carter copy, flipped around as an alien superman on Earth rather than a super-strong Earthling on Mars!) The apparent hints at Theosophical inspiration for Burroughs' Barsoom stories are uncanny if Burroughs had never had any exposure to Theosophy, but Fritz Leiber seems to have been pretty well convinced of it, and Lovecraft seems to have sensed some strong similarities as well in his more Dunsanian take on the adventurer into strange, dreamlike otherworldly places! There seems to have been a trend brewing through pulp sci-fi and fantasy at the time toward Theosophical concepts that could include alien supermen, astral projection into strange dreamlands, reincarnation, ancient astronauts, altruistic alien gurus guiding the world toward spiritual enlightenment, scheming secret societies of "black lodge wizards" manipulating history from behind the scenes, post-apocalyptic lost civilizations, hidden cycles of antique history pointing toward future events, a tendency for human beings to "evolve into enlightened beings of pure energy" and devolve into savage races of ape-men and amphibious lizard-monsters or worse with unstable periods of rising and decadent civilization in between... Burroughs' Barsoom stories seem to fit right into that trend as a very early adopter of at least some of those concepts! Burroughs probably doesn't get enough credit for his direct influence in that way over the pulp science fiction and fantasy to follow in his footsteps, and the pop culture common knowledge to rise up from that influence! (Certainly, Dungeons & Dragons alone owes a far heavier debt to John Carter than Burroughs usually gets credited for, as does "Star Wars", "Dune", the "Cthulhu Mythos", sword-and-sorcery fantasy to following in the footsteps of Tarzan by way of Conan, comic book superheroes, and so many other aspects of "geek culture"!) Anyway, I like that John Carter's origins and background are left mysterious, and in my "head-canon", at least some of that mystery hints at past lives and an extra-dimensional origin through astral projection from other planes of existence, but that in no way shines enough light on the mystery that it doesn't leave us with more questions to answer through out own imagination, and it's certainly not so solid a solution to the mystery that it can be the only possible one. Burroughs seems to have trusted the imaginations of his readers enough to leave it all wonderfully open-ended, and I really appreciate that!

[@acaciogomes8135]

How do you talk about the character El Borak in a solo video?

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Good idea.

[@manofaction1807]

John Carter is a product of the times. ERB had based John Carter on the structure of the Nietzsche idea of The Übermensch, which was a popular idea of the times.

[@KlingonCaptain]

You're wrong about the whole "immortal" thing being left out of the movie. I've never read the books, and I just assumed he was immortal based solely on the 2012 movie. The movie shows him in the late 1860s right after the Civil War, and then around 1910, more than forty years years later, he looks exactly the same. The immortality of John Carter is more than implied in the movie.

[@larrymcmacarroon9529]

So it sounds like the movie upgraded the Therns to make them The big menace, seemingly aliens from beyond just mars like mars was but one more planet under their thumb, whereas in the books they were merely from one of that pack of subspecies and posed a less existential challenge? The movie version of them banged hard and fascinated. They were sort of arguing for their own series, like Venom now apparently has.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

I’m not sure if they banged hard or not but I actually preferred the Therns in the books.

[@stretmediq]

I haven't read any ERB in a long time I'm going to have to remedy that soon

[@Wastelandman7000]

Maybe Carter had an earth mom, Barsoomian father, and after years of fighting got knocked in the head and lost his memory?

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Good theory.

[@cartert2]

I always thought he was a Virginian native who was transported to Mars by Astral Projection. If I remember correctly if you have an out of body experience you can not be killed in your out of body self unless the silver cord connecting your body to your out of body self is severed or your real world body is killed. Thus making him immortal because his silver cord was never cut nor his real world body never killed.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

I think you must have been hanging out with Doctor Strange.

[@cartert2]

@@michaelk.vaughan8617 Dr Strange is a cool character!

[@edwardleonetti2492]

I'm just going to put this out there John Carter is Wolverines father makes sense in some ways but then it's just a theory OR A WHAT IF? Food for thought don't ya think bub?

[@xboomer3004]

I am just on the last book now... After spending much of the summer on the series. I had not read them since the sixties and had forgot much. If he were a Martian that got transported very young... And the grew in Earth's gravity, he could well stand as an Earthman on Earth...as he developed the musculature, and also explains his longevity. But I think... It is a Spiritual story of Afterlife... I don't think he dies in the Shaman's cave, but was put in suspended animation... And transported spiritually to Mars, but he retains his earthly physical form. Barsoom is a Spiritual Mars... OR in transporting to Mars, he also is transported back even several billion years, and the Martian TV scope can look forward in time, though this is not mentioned. We know Barsoom is dying, but Mars is Dead in our time.

[@FirstnameLastname-my7bz]

Did John Carter actually had red cape in them books?! MMM?!

[@leonardkrol2600]

He was Casca before his time.

[@zephlodwick1009]

In Llana of Gathol, chapter 13, JC does give a hint about whence he may've come: "Fighting has been my profession during all the life that I can recall. I fought all during the Civil War in the Confederate Army. I fought in other wars before that. I will not bore you with my autobiography. Suffice it to say that I have always been fighting... I do not know from whence I came, nor if I were born of woman as are other men. I have, so far as I know, simply always been. Perhaps I am the materialization of some long dead warrior of another age. Who knows? That might explain my ability to cross the cold, dark void of space which separates Earth from Mars. I do not know." Perhaps he's a spiritual being, made up of many warlike souls who was brought into being, perhaps with flashes of earlier lives.

[@xboomer3004]

But also follow the book more than just update them...

[@bludluva]

If it’s the right character and it seems deliberate, I like having some characters end with mystery. I like the fact that George Lucas has consciously not given yoda much backstory, cuz it fits the character. Joker’s absence in The Dark Rises, different story. They had to compensate for Ledger’s death, and it felt a little strange that the fucking Joker had no impact or mention in the final film. Slightly random movie references😂

[@RadarHawk52]

Is Carter from Earth and went to Mars or from Mars and returned there from Earth?

[@TheMikester307]

We saw the movie a while back. Ironically the scenes on Earth were cool but the scenes on Mars kind of dragged!

[@redwawst3258]

😎

[@xboomer3004]

After just finishing the book, it is not a collection... Though it seems to be a short story. Also it has the feel that it is not authored by ERB, until maybe the end. This book is not done in the first person, like it is being told by John Carter, as are other stories, and the dialog seems hackney. Rather stilted. There is no visit by him, or call from Mars by the Gridley Wave... It think it would have been better served if it had been. The action is good however. The book is written in 1940. You have a Hilter-esque bad guy and plot. There are atom guns, never mentioned in other books, bombs, canons, even machine guns, (also never mentioned, except for some bombs) and "Blitzkrieg style attack"... It all has the fair of "The Battle of Britain", with Helium as Britain. It seems hurried, and a mish-mash... Not consistent with other writing.... But the end is good.

[@xboomer3004]

John Carter of Mars that is... Or John Carter and the Giant of Mars as this book is called ...

[@macrosense]

He was Corwin

[@GentleReader01]

Not snappy enough banter.

[@danthebookhunter]

What a great theory! Partial amnesia and everything and like John Carter, Corwin served under Robert E. Lee.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Corwin seems like he would be more fun but less reliable than JC.

[@RP-ve7bl]

Michael seems a bit over-dressed for this video...

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Trust me, you don’t want to see me dressed like John Carter.

[@DDB168]

I have the answer, I know the why and how. It's quite obvious if you think about. If I met a woman dressed like the one on the cover - I'd become immortal , quite certain of it 🤭 Hey what did you expect? You should know by now, the lowest common denominator works for me, EVERY TIME 😉

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Me too.

[@troytradup]

Hm. A white savior character, resurrected from the dead, born of Virgin(ia), with the initials JC ... 😇

[@BookChatWithPat8668]

Definitely!

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Uh….no.

[@BookChatWithPat8668]

@@michaelk.vaughan8617 maybe? I did wonder about "JC." Possibly?

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

@@BookChatWithPat8668 well, considering that John Carter’s occupation is fighting, and he has probably killed hundreds of people, AND that he doesn’t seem to be overly fond of religion….it just seems a bit inconsistent with that other fellow.

[@BookChatWithPat8668]

Like John Coffey in Stephen King's The Green Mile....Maybe? And Jim Casey in The Grapes of Wrath?

[@bigaldoesbooktube1097]

This video just makes me feel guilty that I haven’t read A Princess of Mars 🫣

[@jonathanburrell5436]

Shame 🔔 Shame 🔔 😂. I hope you enjoy it when you get round to it.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Oh the SHAME!!!