The Mystery Of The Old Ones - 40K Theories

[@TheTrueMalice]

"basically the neglectful grandparents of the entire universe" that quote actually summed them up really well

[@spacemarine1707]

TTS

[@robertnelson9599]

This is why people want TTS to be canon.

[@spacemarine1707]

@@robertnelson9599 makes sense it would fix up a bit of the lore

[@DanielSan1776]

Space Marine “TTS”? I don’t know this slang

[@mkauf84]

They just went out to pickup cigarettes.

[@ImpudentInfidel]

The Liber Chaotica book on Slaanesh establishes that the Old Ones created the Eldar, but the Eldar themselves created their gods. Their religion was deliberately engineered to take those forms in the Warp. It was this ability that would later allow them to accidentally birth Slaanesh, and was why their gods were so weak against it.

[@40KTheories]

I completely missed that! Thank you for pointing that out

[@ace15892001]

It could be that the old ones influence on the warp prevented anything from forming while they were alive. Upon their extinction the warp is thrown into chaos.

[@DarkNaifu]

Wait, why were the eldar gods weak against Slaanesh? I think they were weak because the eldar stopped feeding them with faith and worship.

[@golgarisoul]

+

[@absalomdraconis]

@@ace15892001 : It seems to be a little more complex than that. It _looks like_ the Warp specifically started going Chaotic during the "War in Heaven", and that it was actually the emotions of the Old One's servant races (e.g. the Eldar) in reaction to the war that caused the Chaos within the Warp, which itself caused the downfall of the Old Ones.

[@poodlescone9700]

Old one #1: You know what would be a good idea? Violent wishful thinking fungi that reproduces all over the place. Old one #2: That is genius!

[@unfortunateson1938]

PoodleScone Old One #3: We need a contingency plan... what if we made a species of carnivorous organisms made to consume literally anything alive. Also, make it constantly evolve.

[@ridernyello7907]

thats why i headcanon that the orks weren't always stupid and were more "honorable" and simply devolved into football hooligans. it fits with the theme of every race being a shadow of its former self

[@AceofWickedSpades]

Rider Nyello They actually were in canon, they were once the Krork, which were heavily militarized but heavily disciplined. The closest thing we have nowadays is the Blood Axes clan and the Stormboyz which are actually pretty disciplined. There is also a theory that Orkz live to the means of the times. They had to be so good and so smart early in their civilization because the Necrons were so dangerous. But now they are in a weaker state because nothing could physically stand up to them otherwise.

[@poodlescone9700]

@@unfortunateson1938 That sounds fun! Let's get started on that project! Wait, why do we need a contingency plan? What could possibly go wrong with all of our psychic soldiers running around and waging a bloody traumatizing war with soulless robots across the galaxy?

[@akiramasashi9317]

A race that propagates through meme magic. Perfect.

[@Wrathien]

When in doubt, they came from Ultramarine stock.

[@GRBoi1993]

This is actually hilarious I’m sorry it took 3 years for someone to tell you that

[@151monka]

The old ones are also blueberries... Everyone is a blueberry

[@canislupus3655]

They where such advanced Pepes that they could just shitpost races into existence

[@Sigmar_Heldenhammer]

This is now head canon.

[@-Siculus-Hort-]

kek?

[@kasrkin100]

So this pepes are responsible for not cure the cancer diese

[@МаркТамазин]

@@kasrkin100 ah yes, the *DIESE*

[@DerdOn0ner]

YEP

[@sirariusritter4250]

My older brother once told me an interesting theory. The theory was that, in order to survive the war in heaven, some of the old ones fled the galaxy as the necrons would be occupied with breaking into the webway. Once out of the galaxy they decided to wipe the slate clean for the milky way and start over. To achieve this end they began working on a bio organism that could resist warp corruption and destroy planets more efficiently than even the necrons. That race eventually returned to the galaxy as the tyranids, with the old ones that are left using the hive mind to hide until the tyranids solve the problems that are believed to still exist in the galaxy.

[@MykhailoHimka-sv2lf]

Those are my thoughts too

[@Mankorra_Gomorrah]

That would explain how a super organic hive species without any sort of technology repeatedly shows up in massive numbers. It also would explain how a species that aggressive evolved as without space flight they would have starved to death on their home world long before anyone ever noticed their existence.

[@Sigmar_Heldenhammer]

Nah, the old ones/Slann empire fell, some fled the galaxy, and as one theory goes, the tyranids are running from something. The slann are returning, slowly pushing back into the galaxy, chasing the tyranids and using them as an advance wave in the process.

[@jick408]

did the old ones install and off switch or will they eventually starve when they win or kill everything?

[@sirariusritter4250]

@@jick408 Likely wire themselved into the hive mind so they would have full control, maybe even using them as a material shock troop force.

[@RevantheBlack]

My headcanon is that the Old Ones are a coalition of older races since that would let GW maximize the grimdark by implying a noblebright past

[@brandonwillakers8733]

Cant bring myself to break the 69 likes but I have to say I absolutely adore this idea!

[@pigbimpin4151]

The Old Ones are just away on a really long bathroom break in the Warp.

[@nabollo]

It takes them a while. They’re *very* old

[@BroadwayNPO]

It takes a lot of effort to dance out that dusty old poo. Even for the Old Ones.

[@animemanXLK]

Well that's puts a new spin on the biblical flood.

[@ptbot3294]

One reading of a magazine in the warp can be millennia in the real space.

[@fabricatorgeneralchadius1114]

Lord adorable?

[@Lordchickie]

Imagine all species get along somehow, even the tyranids, the emperor revives himself and all army’s march through the webway to battle the chaosgoods because they are the one great evil, and then they find the old ones just chilling with a controll pad in hand sitting on the shoulders of the gods, playing a weird game of old one chess

[@Duppyman695]

Checkmate!

[@МаркТамазин]

Helo

[@alfredoyelisa]

War in heaven 2: electric Boogaloo

[@LordBloodraven]

I'm beginning to see a pattern: The Old Ones Rose; the Old Ones Died. The Eldar Rose; Slaanesh is Born; the Eldar become and endangered species. The Emperor Rose; Horus betrays the Emperor; the Emperor is interred in the Golden Throne. "Boundaries shift. New players step in. But Power always finds a place to rest its head." ~ Lt. General Shepherd, Modern Warfare 2

[@cosuinofdeath]

And the Necrons wait

[@clmdcc]

Powers rise, then fall, yet lingers.

[@trollzynisaacjohan1793]

Yet the Umbra still exist. Shards of an intelligent powerful god like being aka an old one.

[@LupusGr3y]

So will the Psychic Awakening be yet another turn of the page? The end of the empire and the rise of the next power?

[@redrix1787]

@@LupusGr3y a very interesting idea...

[@TheNietzscheanRight]

I have been mulling over the idea of a combination of the Old Ones + Shaman theory regarding the Emperors origin. Perhaps the shamans were the Old Ones themselves, who foresaw the coming disasters and chose to incarnate into a single mortal man, placing all their favor and trust in the nascent human race. This explains both why such powerful psykers existed in humanities distant past, and also why they could all combine to create a being of such magnificent power as the Emperor. This is not to say that the Emperor has anything but the barest influence of their original mission and knowledge, and is anything less than wholly human in biology if not spirit. Certainly, their failed Modus Operandi might go a way to explaining why Big E did alot of things the way he did, vis a vis interspecies and warp policy, having come to view their positions as woefully naive.

[@zenoblues7787]

It's also possible the opposite was true that the influence of the Old One made the Emporer callous to human suffering. Perhaps that was why he treated Angron and Lorgar as poorly as he did. It would also explain the implication that recent books have made that the Emporer planned the Heresy out and decided ahead of time which of his sons would stay loyal.

[@ace15892001]

The shamans could have seen what was coming after the old ones fall. I think that the Shamans knew humanity was not ready for the chaos to come and made their sacrifice.

[@DarkNaifu]

I think there's too large a gap between the birth of humanity and the death of the old ones for there to be a link.

[@sha2143]

@@DarkNaifu As far as I know the old ones were the ones who started humanity's evolution to sentience. I remember reading that, but it was a while ago so the memory is a wee bit fuzzy.

[@magnuscoles5010]

@@sha2143 that can't be true because the old ones ended around 60 million years ago while humans started evolving only 200k years ago

[@mrwri]

Can't wait for an old one to show up out of the webway one day. "Oh, the C'Tan are gone? Awesome. Back to ruling the galaxy."

[@yorneustein7851]

They would be like Fook The eldar got too edgy and da Korks are kinda now just a parody ... who is that young man on this throne ? Shit we got bugs again in our home ... them emo bots still there ? What the ever loving fook is a tau ?

[@rafiurrahman7016]

@@yorneustein7851 lmao xD

[@roguepsykerhaaker4813]

@@yorneustein7851 holy shit something we weren't involved in actually exists in the galaxy? Wow. Did not see that coming. Ah well, let's see what they come up with

[@MidoriOfTheShuinsen]

It would revive the Emperor just to see what happens.

[@azagorod8479]

Like hell that's gonna happen

[@captainanopheles4307]

Slaan were probably a child race/sub race of the Old Ones who were the shepherds/overseers of the new races.

[@johnandjessicapage1777]

Captain Anopheles that’s what they are in fantasy so I can go with that

[@Draxynnic]

If I recall correctly, Age of Sigmar made it so that the Slann were, essentially, immature Old Ones - the reason why AoS Slann are so much more powerful than WFB Slann, including being able to pull armies out of their memories, is that during the time between the end of the world and their arrival in the Mortal Realms, they were able to reach a point where they had that level of power naturally. End Times also suggested that the Old Ones also included the human, elven, and dwarf pantheon, making the Incarnates additional Old Ones in AoS. 40K Slann are more like the old WFB Slann than the 5E and later Slann, though, as I understand it. So probably more akin to the Lizardmen than immature Old Ones. That said, my personal theory is that the Old Ones were a coalition of races, and not necessarily races that evolved in the same system, but a first wave of sapient species across the galaxy that chose to work together rather than fighting (keeping in mind that it was the War in Heaven that started forming Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch as we currently know them, so there was probably less of an impetus towards resolving differences through fighting before Khorne was born), and then began to nurture the next wave. Similar to the First Ones of Babylon 5. It's even possible that every subrace of Old Ones had different races they were responsible for uplifting (it might not be coincidence that the Eldar gods look the way they do, for instance).

[@nrais76]

@@johnandjessicapage1777 Originally, in Warhammer fantasy, the Slann were degenerate remnants of the Old Ones. WHFRP 1st edition blatantly states it.

[@nrais76]

@@Draxynnic And I'm totally not up on Age of Sigmar lore yet. Just returning to that side of the hobby after a loooooong absence.

[@TheShadowInTheMask]

How curious that the Slaan are so heavily implied to be connected the Old Ones aka the gods of order, yet the Slaan (Slaad) in D&D are the literal embodiments of chaos lol.

[@nrais76]

It depends on what theories we're going with. In original Warhammer fantasy, the gods of Law were also beings of the Warp, and the Old Ones were Slann, who genetically engineered all sentient life in the world except Beastmen and Skaven (and possibly some other Chaos mutated stuff). The Slann of Lustria were the Old Slann's degenerate remains.

[@valos696]

actually it's Slann, not Slaan nor Slaad. And yeah, 2 letters can change a lot in the meaning XD

[@anonymoususer927]

The thumbnail for the video reminds me of a "healthy" jabba the hutt.

[@JPLOWMAN2]

Dude whoever you hired to do those mad rantings, pay him double - that was sheer poetry

[@Subsplot]

The tall striding figures seen in the vision from the War in Heaven aren't Old Ones, they're the actual Eldar 'Gods' They are described as looking like Avatars of Khaine and his mates, just bigger is because it is Khaine and his compatriots.

[@57575756]

As somebody who has been playing lizardmen for over 20 years I have to say I approve this vid. #Froglife.

[@Sigmar_Heldenhammer]

Respect for my croaking allies.

[@daswordofgork9823]

What do you mean lizardmen? You talk as if there was a world before Age if Sigmar. 😁

[@ImpudentInfidel]

A World That Was, if you will.

[@ptbot3294]

Wait, could Pepe the frog be one of old one. Sent here to herald the revealation of the God Emperor Trump?

[@ImpudentInfidel]

Can we get a Commissar over here?

[@markbamber7918]

In one of the necron codexes, the old ons were described as beautiful and long lived. What's the necrontyr idea of beauty? Wouldn't that give a better understanding of what the old ones looked like?

[@mitchverr9330]

With the recent psyker awakening thing, wouldnt it be interesting if GW decided to suddenly drop space lizardmen into the mix with slaan? XD

[@mitchverr9330]

@conan263 Implying you can have too many space lizardmen.

[@Sigmar_Heldenhammer]

YES, Space Lizardmen!!

[@bobkaye3122]

It wouldn't be difficult. I wrote up a fandex for them that could mostly be used with the models they've already got out. There's a link to it in the fandexes group on Facebook if you're interested.

[@bobkaye3122]

@@Sigmar_Heldenhammer see my reply to mitch verr. I have written a fandex for them as like many other players I'd love to see lizardmen in 40k.

[@gabrielclark1425]

We already have space lizard men, the Navigators all eventually mutate into Uber psychic frogs... Wait a fucking minute.

[@migueln.5508]

The Old Ones were, the Old Ones are, and the Old Ones shall be. Not in the spaces we know, but between them...

[@Furzkampfbomber]

Oh, so maybe they come back in 'The Expanse'? I mean, James Holden is talking about something that existst 'in the space between things' both in the books and in the series...

[@aaroncotton8307]

We just want freaking giant lizards with giant freaking laser beams attached to their heads.

[@trollzynisaacjohan1793]

Exodites bro

[@theadtheogrekiller5629]

Sounds quite evil

[@aaroncotton8307]

I demand One Million dollars to bring the old ones back or we blow up the moon. Muahahahaha

[@Sigmar_Heldenhammer]

Aaron Cotton noo, we secretly build nuclear silos on mars then hold the earth at nuclear gun point. Also tripods, gotta get the war of the worlds feel.

[@aaroncotton8307]

sigmar heldenhammer you got me in the first half then you went full Xenos that’s why your a lost primarch and the emperor hates you. Age of Sigmar is lit tho

[@MrJ6H]

Was waiting for this topic! Thank you!

[@Zakvadr1995]

So, here’s a question Rem: If the Umbra do happen to be fragments of an Old One, what happen if an Umbra was sacrificed to the Golden Throne? Would it help bolster the Emperor, or would it destroy everything?

[@dracorex426]

Qah is obviously not the same thing as the Eldari gods. Slanesh ate all the Eldari gods that couldn't escape other than those that got rescued in some way. Qah didn't get rescued. Kane got shattered into soul fragments. Qah got shattered into a realspace species. Qah is clearly made of flesh, unlike the Eldari gods who are made only of soul stuff.

[@temmy9]

In the original rogue trader and 3rd edition wfb the Slann were the Old Ones who literally created the WFB old world and everything on it.

[@tigeriussvarne177]

Fascinating theories Inquisitor Remleiz, well done as always.

[@phaylnx]

"Gentle and Benevolent".....unless you are the Necrontyr asking for medical aid.

[@40KTheories]

Well the Necrontyr instigated their war so...

[@phaylnx]

@@40KTheories ya....AFTER the Old Ones refused to help them in the first place. They asked the Old ones for help, granted in the form of eternal life, and the Old Ones said nope....you guys can die. Oddly enough, the Necrontyr were one of the few races,that as far as we know, the Old Ones didn't create. That may be the reason they said no....the Old Ones wanted the all life in the galaxy to be entirely of their making.

[@40KTheories]

That version of events was only true during 3rd edition. From 5th edition onwards the Necrontyr started the war because the Silent King wanted to unite his people against a common foe so as to end the constant cycle of civil war throughout the Necrontyr Empire.

[@phaylnx]

@@40KTheories from the 8th edition codex on page 8. "Such a war was simplicity itself to justify, for the Necrontyr had ever ranked at the Old Ones' refusal to share the secrets of eternal life." As a race that had a really short life span and was obsessed with their deaths, they might feel compelled to do whatever they could to save their race. Granted, war is counter-intuitive to that idea, but if the Old Ones had said hear, let us help you find a way to counteract the shorter life-spans, the war in heaven could have been avoided in the first place. Now while I always enjoy a good debate, I do wish my first interaction with a good creator wasn't one. I wish it would have been to answer a question I asked a while back on one of the graphic that you use in a lot of you imperial videos as I was wanting to study the layout it.

[@40KTheories]

Ah they must have tried to consolidate the two origins (which given the mess that is Necron lore in general it's probably for the best). Okay, fair enough I'll admit that I'm wrong in this regard :)

[@maxwelljacobs2715]

Your vids are a genuine welcome sight to my day. Please never stop making these vids.

[@Songfugel]

In the final words of Master of Orion 2: "Ruler of the Galaxy, THIS Galaxy..."

[@magicalsealand5076]

Are there any accounts of how the Necrons think of Slaneesh? I want to know what the metal heads think of the warp being that brought low one of their greatest foes

[@SteveVDuelist]

Old ones are the watchers in the dark in disguise

[@jean-baptistehenry6850]

They are Alpharius

[@jamescampbell39]

A Hutt species with a sense of decency and genius intellect

[@steelfist1305]

I have been waiting for this one. Your theory videos are always great.

[@Werrf1]

The Old Ones, being a highly psychic race, combined their abilities to see as far into the future as they possibly could. They managed to catch a very, very brief glimpse of a giant figure wielding a mace with a star-shaped head and holding up a huge book, and immediately committed suicide at the shame of existing in a galaxy that could create such a being. #BlameLorgar.

[@ranfan1820]

Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!! >:(

[@RicardoAlmeidatm]

Old ones being absent is a great way to add a new race in the future. First the T'au, then the Leagues of Votann. Maybe space lizards in the future? a way to not end the series via tyranid?

[@greenwitchinc.1682]

Dude that is an absolutely epic voice for the quote about Slaanesh! That was made super spooky. Great work!

[@a40kweeb36]

The Great plan will be fulfilled! Purge the warm bloods! Decimate the stunties and knife ears! Destroy the vile skaven and chaos! For Sotek and the Old Ones!

[@zenoblues7787]

Go home Mazdamundi your drunk

[@Sigmar_Heldenhammer]

Hold up, Sotek and I are drinking buddies.

[@Jager-Style]

Kinda redundant, seeing that dwarves, elves, and skaven are warmbloods

[@nrais76]

Old Slann created all the races in the World That Was except Beastmen, Skaven, and maybe the goblinoids, but it doesn't come out and say so directly of them (the first two, yes, blatantly Chaos mutations). They were especially fond of elves.

[@Ben_of_Langley]

Behind every great warboss there once stood an even greater snotling lol cool video man

[@jacobfreeman5444]

My feeling is they were even greater in the immaterium then they were in the material realm. That they would reach a state in that realm of the mind where they were like gods. And could, maybe, live truly in the mental realm and the material bodies were just engineered constructs so they could easily effect the material realm. It would be within their capability if the legends of their knowledge are correct. And would even make the cataclysm within the immaterium make more sense as to why it was so devastating to the old ones. Their home was in shambles, too dangerous to return to. And even...maybe...the chaos gods are nothing more than the newest born of their line. Lacking proper tutelage they grew...wild. Too focused on the natures that birthed them to grow into something more. Both terribly powerful and so ignorant that they are a stain on their forebears greatness.

[@Tehcarp]

In my day, all we did was talk about how fractured the 40k lore was.

[@TheSonOfDumb]

"All with the utterance of a single word..." "... ligma."

[@treygreypaws3689]

Man, I've been curious about this franchise for awhile due to art I've seen. Git Gud Fox and you are helping me learn a lot about it. I'll need to get a hold of these books

[@CT68]

I was just thinking today about this today: the warp spiders, and their lack of phoenix lord, and how in Path Of the Seer, Thirianna follows the infinity circuit out to the web way, runs into demons, and is helped by seers -AND- the warp spiders (the actual warp spiders that the warrior shrine is named after.) Which makes me think - the Old Ones created the warp spiders (the spiders) right? Did they create the Eldari gods or are they the gods themselves? Do the warp spiders (warriors) follow the old ones instead of Kaine? And, could the old ones still be alive in the web way?

[@daswordofgork9823]

You could say that they got their life TOAD taken away from them- The Emperor of Mankind.

[@mikewaterfield3599]

It would be a nice area for GW l to expand into. What would make an even better plot twist? A surviving old one joining the eldar death bringers.

[@SophiaAstatine]

I rate this 8 out of 10 Kroakkkkkkkk.

[@CyberSlayer128]

I love how many possibilities there are. Those are always the coolest mysteries.

[@stig-ovemadetoja5086]

Though i read almost each and every published black library book im always awed by the knowledge of Remleiz.

[@rthj6446]

Apophiosis? Could it be that the old ones died out because they were dyslixic and erronously achieved apoptosis?

[@dimigust3753]

Man, dow2 soundtrack really bring the already great videos to another level

[@WolfAlpha15]

The passage by the slannesh demon def refers more to cegorach than the umbra. That slannesh killed the old gods except one whom escaped into the webway. Could it be the umbra are part of cegorach? That slannesh got in his head and "kicked the shards out" making him crazy?. I think the old ones and old gods are all the same, that they were just the first of any/all races born indirectly of the warp by more positive emotions unlike the chaos gods

[@Audiotrocious]

I guess you could say they had their life TOAD AWAY from them XD TTS is Gold

[@davidmcintosh28]

Aren’t there meant to be gods of order that the chaos gods did away with? That these gods of order created the “real” universe from the power of the immaterium. It would make more sense that Slaanesh destroyed one of these order gods that was hiding from chaos - perhaps hiding in the emotion of love that was perverted by the Eldar into lust creating Slaanesh. That makes more sense than an old one somehow becoming a god - maintaining that the old ones became the Slaan, and their god of love was destroyed by Slaanesh.

[@thomasbailey7159]

It was also stated that the Old One's capable of highly advanced biological manipulation and they saw it as their purpose to seed life in the galaxy. This was one of the points that angered the old Necron's as they were not given immortality which the Old ones had and were capable of bestowing, since the old one's didn't see it as their place to interfere in the evolution or development of other races.

[@Hockabout55]

Personally I would put my money on the Umbra theory. What follows are the various backing arguments. 1. Salvador mentioned one god survived. But we know for a fact at least 3 aeldari gods survived.(issha, khaine, and my boy cegorach) 2. In Salvador's excerpt he also mentioned there was one left AFTER the war in heaven while the eldar survived for a long time post war in heaven. 3. The old ones were the most psychically powerful race to ever exist so it makes sense killing even the most small shard would cause a noticeable psychic backlash. 4. In a Ynnari excerpt one of them mentions how the old ones gifted the eldar with the ability to make weapons out of the warp (but they fucked it all up) so that could have been those Khaine constructs in this video.

[@nrais76]

I like point number 4 most especially well. However, I discount the whole thing, as he's an insane heretic who heard it from a daemon who heard it from Slaanesh. None of the links on that chain screams "reliable."

[@InfiniteCyclus]

I think these specific stories are fictional... All the various writers through the years made those stories up along the way and created plausible backstories for their fantasies.. That said, it does make for a compelling, rich and divers universe, which I can't imagine will ever be boring.

[@vxvkeaux6122]

It’s not fiction lol

[@SilverArse]

Umbra are a take on old ones from the Lovecraftian Mountains of madness book. Invented the dinosaurs then got bored with them etc.

[@Ether101_Prime]

I feel that the Old Ones needed to work on their technique. If only they had studied the frame data more closely and learned how to preform useful skills such DP on wake up they'd probably be alive now.

[@playtoyx]

Nah they lost because the necrons used that hidden tech of the C'tan in tourney. Nobody good enough to adapt that fast.

[@hugovandyk9918]

This video is months old. For this reason I will hide my theory here. As this video suggested close to the end, we may have been thinking about The Old Ones in the wrong way all along. We generally refer to them as a whole and rarely consider them as individuals. Why do we always assume they always acted as a homogeneous whole? Each Old One was an intelligent, sentient being. It is safe to assume they each had their own vices and virtues, likes and dislikes, their own personalities. What if one of the Old Ones, or a faction of them, turned on the others? If an Old One wanted to wipe the galaxy clean of life then start again. The others may not agree. Perhaps some Old Ones wanted to create one, perfect species to proliferate the entire universe instead of a discordance of incalculablely numerous sentient species? What if some took the study of the Imaterium as their speciality? Those responsible for creating the webways and the field of studies they were the brainchild of. What knowledge did they keep for themselves or were unable to share? All that would be counter to the philosophy and teaching of the Old Ones but did all agree with the same teachings and philosophies? How do those philosophies apply when thought of over the timespan of millennia? How many species died by the Old One's machinations when they didn't "fit in the plan"? What sentient species would never have a chance because they were deemed a threat to the rest? The great turning point against the Old Ones was when the Necrontyr discovered the C'tan. If an Old One knew of the C'tan's existence then he could have assisted the Necrontyr in making contact, with or without them being aware of it. Once that galaxy was wiped clean of all life, the C'tan would either have had to devour one another, return to subsisting off stars or travel to another galaxy to seek more life. The point is that eventually the C'tan would leave, regress or die. An Old One could see it's way to waiting that out. Plans change of course as everything must adapt to unforseen circumstances. A tweak here, a contingency or 3 there, only takes a few thousand years to set in motion then sit back watch it all play out from a place you know none of the hostiles can reach or see. It would have been a damn shame to set all that up only for some warp-born entity to be birthed at that moment, tear you to pieces and fling you out across the universe.

[@ZeroOmega-vg8nq]

Umbra scream? Hmmm i think we need to put a scarf and gold on them.

[@letthevoidb7608]

"Howl all you want...

[@ZeroOmega-vg8nq]

@@letthevoidb7608 *smiles of juran intensifies*

[@Cipri001]

@@letthevoidb7608 ... It won't bring him back."

[@smity739]

If the emperor is not a reincarnated old one then the surviving old ones or one of their captain Pike chairs were the blue print for a bunch of shamans who forgot the suicide prevention hotline number .

[@darthlazurus4382]

I honestly think Old One was a earned title rather than a race. The Old Ones being a MENSA like group that transcended their species.

[@thatrandomguy8157]

They're called the old ones because of the retirement home they're in

[@merouanebelaroussi9706]

2:55 didn't the Old ones have a huge technological advantage over the nercontyr, and that was the reason for the necrontyr loss

[@enginepy]

So Kurdo Salvador lives in a trailer in the Alabama woods?

[@lonerkyle02]

Always right before bed haha

[@fumarc4501]

Maybe the Old Ones did an Emperor and those races that had one, or more, ascended grouped up and after the war were forced into the galactic retirement home?

[@tcochu]

I am with the Ancient Tau like empire of different Species...It would make much sense... and partially also explain later Organisations like the cabal... Because the common history would connect those species...

[@TK199999]

My only real problem with the Old Ones, is having only one true elder race. I feel limits 40K, since it creates a hard rule for the prehistoric Milky Way. I always felt that if GW let be known by lets say Trazyn the Infinite Troll. That the Old Ones and the Necrons were not the oldest or the first. That the Milky Way is over 10 billion years old. In that time other great races rose and fell, its just that the Old Ones were most recent and lasted longer/more stable than others. Because the thing to remember is the Milky Way has consumed innumerable galaxies over the eons. Each with its own history, life forms and stellar empires.

[@WastelandSeven]

I think its not impossible that at least one Old One is still out there, popping in and out. Because how did the Tau go from a primitive race to a high tech race so quickly? Then again, given their technological ability, its not beyond possibility that to escape the chaos they fled the galaxy. Possibly on a ship made of a planet. (see EE "Doc" Smith's Lensmen series for an example) Likewise it would be within their ability after millions of years of research to cloak their ships to the lesser races and warp entities. If so, they could be getting ready to come back and set things right.

[@AtomicFire1972]

It is speculated that the Eldar were behind the creation of the Ethereal caste that united the Tau race.

[@noahcurtis250]

Also, the ship theory works, because didn't the slaan and lizardmen come to the mortal realms in planet ships from outer space

[@williamarmstrong7163]

I think "technological knowledge" and "biological expertise" is a stretch for mek boyz and pain boyz

[@Escalusfr]

You can't deny a certain efficiency... Sort of...

[@Doomseer]

Thinking about it if I had to rewrite the 40k lore then I'd definitely change the old ones in regard to what they looked like or more specifically present much more ambiguity as to what the old ones were and what they looked like in order to make them even more mysterious and bizarre. That way much more would be left up to the imagination which in my opinion is especially important in 40k.

[@GregoryElliott1973]

The last of the Old Ones is in the center of the lost world of Z'ha'dum.

[@Deridus]

To be fair, they don't give a time frame. Damn Psycorps.

[@gabrielclark1425]

Hmm... Anyone else think it's strangely coincidental that Navigators turn into highly advanced toads with buttloads of psychic power? Me thinks the Old Ones are hiding in plain sight.

[@matenzo]

I like to think that the old ones hid seeds of their genetic makeup in their creations, so that they may be reborn in the future.

[@kdisley]

I personally like the idea that the Old Ones were similar to the Slann, but it seems to me that it could be a case of divergent evolution - the Slann would be to the Old Ones as gorillas or chimpanzees are to modern humans, evolving into different sub-races but sharing a common amphibious ancestry. This might lead them to have forms which are closer to the humanoid body-types of their later creations than the frog-like Slann (after all, humans are more slender than gorillas and taller and shorter-armed than chimpanzees) and would make them somewhat more intelligent... and considering that the Slann are orders of magnitude smarter than the average Terran ape, a comparison between ourselves and said apes would imply a huge evolutionary leap in intelligence beyond even that. Sounds like a race which could potentially reach apotheosis over thousands of years to me... As to why there are so many differing reports of the Old Ones' appearance, perhaps they are like the cosmic-level Marvel Comics character *Galactus,* whose true appearance is so overwhelming and incomprehensible to lesser beings that they perceive him in terms of their own race - humans see him as an enormous human, Skrulls see him as a gargantuan Skrull, and so on. This could explain why the Orks believe they were Orkish in appearance, the Eldar have gods which appear similarly tall and slender to themselves, and - were humans to encounter such a being - we would perceive them as humanoid. Perhaps we have already seen them in our ancient history, and interpreted them as gods and angels and buddhas and other deities...?

[@zenoblues7787]

I personally like this idea because it implies that all gods after the C'tan and before the rise of Slaanesh were just Old Ones trying to stave off there own demise. Through the power of worship and belief.

[@vonvalenmcguy627]

Something extremely games workshop, would be that the old ones create the proto orks who are extremely, extremely intelligent for the war Then following the old ones fall, they create the modern Orks in an attempt to create a quickly producing army they thought they could control easily and they end up getting far too out of control

[@jordywalson4777]

*shiffers* there were tons of em... scalie furries... We had no exterminatus options.. only swords and warmachines, It were truly DARK TIMES.

[@nightchicken283]

Hello, wierd qeustion, but what song is the background music your using? I really love it :p

[@adriennet80]

The Old Ones: "How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a !" Yes you Eldari!

[@rpbp4468]

So all life in the galaxy started from toads licking shrooms. Accurate af. More great work, great research and delivery mate 👍👍

[@hughgedney3393]

Very great video as always 40k Theories.

[@allenjackson8632]

Question for you sir, is there any backstory to Ragnars nemesis Maddox? He's not rubric marine and I've not heard of him in the Heresy series, though I've not read anywhere near all of them. Any info? Loved the vid dude, keep rolling.

[@trazyntheinfinite1961]

Watcher you always give the right info.

[@Midnight_Mondo]

Eeeeeee!!! Time for my bedtime story!😬

[@Born_Stellar]

16:00 wow that voice... that is something else I tell ya. is there a whole audiobook like that? yikes.

[@Nyctophora]

I would listen to that!

[@Nyctophora]

I would listen to that!

[@markusnavergard2387]

I still think they where all reptiles.

[@chrissyclark7836]

Plot twist. The old ones meddled and twisted races. They violated the warp. The eldar lead directly to the warp issues in modern 40k. The orks are a plague. The Necron were the heroes in their way.

[@DitchCricket11]

The old ones being ork type or snotlings species would be epic and poetic for 40k.

[@phreakazoith2237]

welcome to 40k, we have benevolent and gentle races... with awesome firepower who create hungry space bugs and greenskinned partypeople

[@mcvgs1780]

I've recently been watching African Bullfrogs in youtube then this popped up in my recommend. I am not disappointed.

[@leftistadvocate9718]

what if old one isn't a species but a title. and perhaps the emperor if born during the war in heaven would have been called an old one

[@rthj6446]

Bo-jivan Parker nah. It would be far more fun if they were extracorporeal beings that did not fear physical death, since their bodies were simple tools, and they resided simultaneously in a great number of them. This could make hyper intelligent hitchhikers rats canon. Or snotlings.

[@rthj6446]

Bo-jivan Parker nah. It would be far more fun if they were extracorporeal beings that did not fear physical death, since their bodies were simple tools, and they resided simultaneously in a great number of them. This could make hyper intelligent hitchhikers rats canon. Or snotlings.

[@noahcurtis250]

Our on other words, the Q continuum

[@frosch90453]

Finally! I found a 40k Channel without pretentious accent!

[@nrais76]

In Warhammer FRP 1st edition rulebook, pages 263-4, we see the Slann of Lustria who end up in charge of LIzardmen in subsequent editions of the wargame, are the degenerate remains of the Old Slann (aka The Old Ones in other books), who are beings from far across the galaxy who introduced new plants and animals and genetically engineered existing animals into sentient races and guided their evolution, changed the orbit of the planet to make it warmer and more hospital to life, etc. They travelled here through great gates that led into the Warp and moved through the warp through the combined use of powerful shielding magic on their pyramidal spaceships, and the placation of the more powerful warp entities through various rituals and sacrifices. Then something went wrong and the gate over the northern pole collapsed and exploded, allowing the warp to begin entering the material universe, creating the chaos wastes and mutating many of the life forms. The more powerful warp beings sought worship and became the gods. The amazing awesome magic powers of the High Elves were because they were basically the favorites of the Old Slann and so were directly handed a number of their secrets. So if 40k is parallel, the Slaan are the Old Ones, or at least their degenerate descendants. Now, I've still got my copy of Rogue Trader, but it's not real handy, and you referenced it, so I know you've got access to one, but I believe portions of a similar backstory were reproduced there. It's just that so much has been retconned, and everything and anything is subect to such...

[@mrsamaritan6881]

What do I think? I think you forget to include the theory that the God-Emperor is really an Old One, considering how alike their descriptions are, not physically but in their characteristics. Powerful pyskers, great intelligence, masters of bio-engineering, creating races (well, the Space Marines are not a "race" per-see but perhaps the Old Ones didn't "create" new races so much as augment existing ones).

[@mrspeigel3593]

Man, the old ones are just that, the crinoid race described in the mountains of madness variously called old ones and elder things.

[@MrMrrome]

What if some of the old ones fled the warp and galaxy itself (assuming the warp isn't connected to other galaxies). Then those that fled created the tyranids and sent them home as an insurance policy, incase those that stayed lost the war in heaven?

[@zenoblues7787]

If that were the case than the Old Ones are likely dead, since Tyranid lore implies all life in the surrounding galaxies was completely wiped out.

[@MrMrrome]

@@zenoblues7787 That would make sense considering the old ones were practically immortal *because* of the warp. If they left it behind with the galaxy then they would age and die eventually. Probably before or shortly after their non warp craft made it to the next galaxy, with the first generation of tyranids on board.

[@Jebbis]

I'm calling it now. The Old Ones are returning.