The Myth of Thanksgiving: Native American Perspectives on 'The Pilgrims' | Past Forward

[@LuvLiWords]

BLESS YOU ALL and Thank You for this deep, rich Authentic Perspective on the Truth behind the Myth. I will be sharing this today and throughout the year.

[@richardson.1424]

I'm watching today on Thanksgiving. I felt like it was finally time to make an honest effort towards doing something different today after years of un-learning the things I was programmed with from an early age. Thank you for this.

[@Zachw2007]

Disease has killed people for hundreds of thousands if not millions of years. Nothing new under the sun.

[@cubearcub]

Programmed is the correct word. This was a great discussion.

[@CaffarJaFire]

Likewise. This was meaningful without any hatred/{reprisal talk} and based on educated research. No spin. Thank you

[@carolspoehr2696]

Linda's response to the oral history was so spot on. From the beginning of time, oral history was all we had. The Holy bible was not written down as it happened; it was record after it happened. Reading and writing in history has been for wealth and often the male children; the less wealthy and poor have passed their history on by sharing it orally.

[@BlurtNobrain]

The Bible is not history.

[@CaffarJaFire]

Some of the bible was, some of it wasn't

[@55sirenita]

So grateful to have found and listened to these brothers and sisters.

[@Mica-rv5eg]

I just broke this down for my H.S US History class. this might be helpful for someone else. Introduction 0:26-2:15 Who are the Wampanoag and the 6:02-8:47 Narragansett When Pilgrims arrive WHAT 8:50-12:55 Had happened to Natives Due To Europeans What really happened to the 13:11-16:30 Natives of this region BEFORE 1620? Did the Pilgrims really mean to go 16:31-19:02 To Massachusetts? What did Native Oral Tradition pass 19:03-22:44 Down about the Pilgrims? What Earlier Europeans did to Native 22:54-24:58 American of the New England region BEFORE 1620 Alliances between Pilgrims & Natives 24:59-28:37 Myth of Thanksgiving Pilgrims view 28:45-31:38 Natives view 31:28-33:25 What is Thanksgiving from the 33:24-38:15 Native American point of view How did Thanksgiving become a 38:18-42:28 National Holiday

[@ctulumo]

Thank you for this!

[@brookejames5338]

Thank you so much for sharing! You are my hero today:)

[@cubearcub]

Thank you!

[@Dana9437]

I will share this with friends and family.

[@thomadan01]

This was very enlightening; thank you for educating me!

[@textaylors]

This information is very good and I am grateful for each of you for loving truth, digging out the facts from the indigenous perspective, and delivering this information to our generation.

[@marshajoyner7475]

Aloha from Honolulu We are indeed living on Indigenous land.

[@brighteyedbaby8322]

This was so needed. As I am so tired of being ignorant to the origin of this holiday and the oppressive history that has and continues to be perpetuated in today's history. I love the idea of stories being continued to be told through generations to sustain the history. Many Blessings to you all. And for those struggling with white frugality, I encourage you to do work on yourself prior to commenting on how others who have been marginalized for centuries share their truths.

[@shawnaweesner3759]

To Bright Eyed Baby: In other words, you are saying that these teachers/historians sharing history (not their truths) in this special, can’t be treated like all other teachers/historians, which is based on one’s credentials. How very oppressive of you to decide for all Native Americans that they have been “marginalized for centuries.”

[@whitneyweaver4133]

White frugality? OK

[@LAKEVILLEMA]

haha so immigration is bad? And get your own "fragility" in check.

[@t-pinmuscletherapy8418]

On the deforestation point. It's known that the native tribes used controlled burns to clear lands for crops and animals. And natives DID of course chop down tees to burn for heat, light, and cooking fuel.

[@amandala444]

Thank you for the time and thoughts offered here. Makes me want to learn even more. I do wish, however, so long as we are speaking to accuracy in history, that Linda would've noted that the holiday of Thanksgiving, as those of European descent here in the USA know it, was promulgated mostly by a woman, Sarah Josepha Buell Hale, an American writer, editor and activist. She promoted it to Lincoln, and in Godey's Lady's Book magazine, (where she was editor) as a way to ease growing political tensions between North and South around the Civil War.

[@shawnaweesner3759]

Amanda, this is very interesting. Thank you, and I hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving.

[@christianfrommuslim]

Contrary to popular belief, Religious and Racial TOLERANCE in America BEGAN in Plymouth Colony. The Mayflower Compact assured peaceful coexistence of the religious separatists and the secular settlers who composed the "Pilgrims." Not all settlers to America were good or respectful of natives, but the Pilgrims were. They believed Leviticus 19:33,34, and so made laws that natives must be treated the same as whites. They even executed whites for killing a native. The great fear of the Pilgrims was that other groups would come to America who would mistreat the natives, and that this evil would be attributed to them. Sadly, that is exactly what happened.

[@geekmeee]

@@christianfrommuslim Denial comes in many forms.

[@TheSellenhut]

I watched half this video and left since no one is saying what the myth is. Two percent of Americans claim Native ancestry. Some of them are proud and patriotic Americans. When the pilgrims gave thanks it was because THEY were thankful that life was becoming a little more hopeful for THEM. Thats not a myth. It was the germination of what would become a new nation in the future. It had been a hard year for the Pilgrims. They had arrived in America too late in the year to plant any crops. Because of this they were hungry much of the time. They were not in good health, and many of their friends and family got sick. In fact almost half of them died during that first winter in America. So when the harvest came in the fall of 1621 the Pilgrims knew that they were probably going to be safe. They had plenty of food to eat now and plenty to store away for the upcoming winter. The Pilgrims wanted to give thanks to God for giving them so much. So they decided to have a feast. Their neighbors, the Wampanoag Indians brought deer they had hunted and everyone settled down for a huge meal and celebration that lasted three days. Most everybody knows that this is the story of the first Thanksgiving Feast, but it is not the only story of Thanksgiving among the Pilgrims. You see two years later was the year 1623. And 1623 was a very dry year at the Plymouth colony. There was a drought and the Pilgrims were worried that their crops would fail and they wouldn’t have enough food. But you know what? They still had Thanksgiving. Now it wasn’t a feast it was a fast. When times were hard they would take a day and not eat. They did this because to focus totally on God. They thanked God for what He had given them and prayed for his help through the coming winter. You see whether the Pilgrims had a lot or a little they wanted to thank God for his provision.

[@55sirenita]

“I’m not worried about ruining Tnksgvng, but getting the truths of history out there” ❤

[@jaecreations8648]

This was so enlightening and such a wealth of information that has never been taught! The history books for our kids of today need to be rewritten to include the truth of the origins of this holiday! Such great commentary from each of you! Thank you!!! The truth of the holiday has been white-washed and presented as something to celebrate. Are we celebrating thievery and massacre? Now I have to go find the documentary…The Pilgrims!

[@bobbyginnings9273]

Have you found the documentary yet? (I came across an upload of it but the audio is atrocious).

[@soltrekker]

I too am watching on Thanksgiving, or what I now call Gratitude Day because Thanksgiving like so much else has been embedded in perpetuated myth. This is not my first time marching toward truth. I inch ever closer, I hope. That said, I thank you, especially, for sharing your knowledge, experience, wisdom, and spirit.

[@shawnaweesner3759]

Emily K, the information presented here is taught in many excellent high schools across the United States; in addition, history is filled with myths, including Native American history. That being said, have you thought of what you will call Christmas; after all, there was a Saint Nicholas, but history shows that he is far from the myth of the Santa Clause we celebrate today (a fat, jolly man, riding in a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer, that slides down chimneys, in order to place requested presents under Christmas trees).

[@bonniedankert182]

Giving thanks to all!

[@clintraymundo6547]

That was insightful! I didn’t think that not all of Massasoit’s people would agree with him allying with the Puritans, and I didn’t think about contextualizing tensions between the Natives and the English settlers with the former’s abusive history with European outsiders. I also really liked the discussion of how you can still celebrate Thanksgiving without denying the truth behind it. Thanks for the discussion!

[@geekmeee]

The truth, is what actually happened. Everything else, is ‘alternative facts.’

[@drmichaelwelsh]

Has no one examined this question before? PBS sponsored a series in 2009 entitled, We Shall Remain. PBS stated that Native people had been involved in the production. The first segment talked about the Pilgrims, and showed how quickly the interaction of 1621 did not endure. So the question might be, why didn't that series on the same network as the 2015 production on "The Pilgrims" have any impact.

[@joannephillips6781]

Kia ora, from New Zealand. Very pleased to learn about the indigenous people, people of the land, their perspective of the newcomers. Very interesting and certainly helped me to see how it must have been like for both the indigenous people and the pilgrims. And I totally agree that the truth should be told and nothing else. I agree the truth needs to be put out there.

[@ShannonCrane]

“Day of Mourning” - mentioned by Linda, needs elaboration. “Plymouth 400” also. I’m here because a friend posted about the slaughter of native people in the early days - so I’m researching what really happened. Thank you for your perspectives & video presentation.

[@textaylors]

Thank you very much. Please keep seeking truth and sharing it with us.

[@bonnieburton4360]

PS blessings and happy holidays

[@paulvalanzuolo6374]

it good to hear of a original account of first settlement ..in that probability of that what it was.. but i would like if anyone knows or theorized the Vikings landing here prior... their are stone made sites that were established...long before,, and what influence or effect they had on indigenous peoples .

[@here_we_go_again2571]

Nobody knows. The Vikings who were in America did not leave records, except for the footprints (foundations) of their settlements. The Vikings on Greenland survived and prospered for awhile but as the climate in that region became colder; Greenland was abandoned. After the Vikings and before the Pilgrims English and French fishermen were fishing the Grand Banks off of New England. They had contact with the Native Americans living on the shore nearby.

[@chaseofori-atta2225]

Thank you for this important conversation! God bless all nations & tribes of the beautiful Indigenous people. 🙏

[@scottl.1568]

Thanks for this

[@waltersstreet]

Fascinating

[@whitneyweaver4133]

A gathering of the settlers and the indigenous people DID HAPPEN in 1621 so I fail to understand how it is a "Myth". Granted, the history of what ensued after that in the past 400 years is sometimes horrendous and we have to own up to that, but the most important thing we have to do now is treat each other kinder and make things better for the future of us all.

[@Norcide412]

0:31 Introductio by Yvonne Russo 3:30 Rick Schroeder 6:05 Linda Coombs & Cassius Spears Sr.

[@jackooboy1]

John Smith wasn't on the Mayflower. I cannot find a source for her supposed quote of "God clearing the land for a better people." Can anyone cite source material on this?

[@whitneyweaver4133]

I cant find it either.....but there is written proof of the first Thanksgiving or whatever is politically correct to call it. A gathering of the settlers and the idigenous people DID HAPPEN so I fail to understand how it is a "Myth". Granted, the history of what ensued after that in the past 400 years is sometimes horrendous and we have to own up to that, but the most important thing we have to do is treat each other kinder and make things better for the future of us all.

[@Orcanislupus]

I imagine the story telling of the indigenous people meets technology deserves attention. What happens when history (his-story) is reclaimed by Truth. When it is shared in an experience similar to Bitcoin... Power that once relied on managing the story will be hard pressed in this new age of open source internet. Continue with your great stories and share them like a virus of truth.

[@rettapine9500]

We were here an still here an remain here

[@maureenroland9895]

They were celebrating Harvest Home, an old English holiday that almost every agricultural culture observes after a successful harvest.

[@shirleyfeatherstone8088]

So good to hear about all history that has been hidden

[@GuitarJimBourke]

The film does not cover my ancestor Antoine Bourque. Whom came on a Acadian voyage from France in 1632-38 the French Catholics were Colonizing Nova Scotia New Brunswick area in the 1620s that piece of history is black balled. Only to be covered by Longfellow in the poem called, Evangeline.

[@waltersstreet]

Linda Coombs is beautiful

[@manita2653]

I so wanted to stay and listen but there was so much static it became unbearable to stay. Sorry for what was done to you and your people . There is no reason or excuse for what was done. Thank you for bringing the truth to light.

[@annroe2891]

Thank you for this information. Itis good to here truth. I know it was not really the 1st Thanks giving but gratitude for the harvest but as a disendent of Edward Winslow I'm glad He mentioned the feast and who was there of all people. I'm just thankful that it is a day of gratitude and family and good food.

[@SaltyWitch]

Linda seems incredibly knowledgeable about her ancestors and early settling history..... but I do hope she broadens her scope on Catholicism and Christianity. Her views there seem to be very limited yet hostile.

[@ptalester]

Amanda, what happened was hostile! What are you not getting?

[@SaltyWitch]

@@ptalester *SOME* Not all. The Puritans that came over from Holland and survived the 1st winter encountered the Indenginous tribe, including Squanto, believed they were a MIRACLE sent from God.

[@shawnaweesner3759]

@@ptalester It is acceptable for everyone to share information that adds to the history of this holiday. I found Amanda’s comment interesting, and informative.

[@shawnaweesner3759]

SaltyBelle1776, I appreciate your perceptive comment, and agree with it.

[@here_we_go_again2571]

@@SaltyWitch Their survival (51 out of 103 who landed died during the first year) was thought of as a miracle.

[@bonnieburton4360]

I only celebrate Christmas and Easter because it’s the meaning of God it’s only through the holidays were celebrating Thanksgiving should be every morning when you get up in the morning thank God for your blessings nobody should be mistreated or traded no matter whether they’re American Indian Irish or whatever neither should the animals be mistreated we’re all gods creations can’t people just get along also I love our pets I’m thankful for my two cats cats

[@w.c.c.b.9798]

Easter & Xmas are pagan holidays. Do nothing or celebrate what Jesus celebrated.

[@lesliedaubert1411]

The pilgrims broke their promises and friendship with the Natives of Turtle Island.

[@donnydew9313]

Is that the island where they were missing and carved in the tree. In 1613 in Virginia ?

[@bri4njeff3rs0n]

Saying Thanksgiving is about gratitude and family instead of about European settlers ultimately dominating Natives in war (Metacomet's War and the Pequot War) is much like saying the N-word is about reclamation instead of being a dehumanizing insult. The origins of each precede either word and can't, to my mind, be redefined without indirectly advocating for the surreptitious acceptance of their original meanings. Thanksgiving makes me think of the need for ethical representation for all ethnicities in media, of their own choosing and as such, to be more certain, of their own ownership. When ethics regarding our treatment toward one another is the implied top priority of any given person, any flaring divisions menacing the country should likely subside.

[@shawnaweesner3759]

It is apparent that Linda Coombs is bitter about the past, and has turned to making snide comments, using this forum as her platform, instead of passing on the complexities and richness that the historical record may offer about the relationship(s) between Samoset and the Pilgrims. Here’s an example, when mentioning Samoset greeting the Pilgrims of Plymouth, Coombs states, “I bet he’s sorry now.”

[@michelledewitt7591]

When I was growing up and we had History, never was an Of the Truth, the Evil that Happened. I actually just heard about it by researching myself. So Sad. I was actually Sad and Very mad as well! Thank you for making this Video and showing us who never were told the Truth. Shelly from Small Town Sparta Michigan USA 🇺🇸❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@t-pinmuscletherapy8418]

Read William Bradford’s and Roger Williams’ work for great first hand accounts of relations with the indigenous tribes! Really read them before preemptively censoring them in your mind for being male and white. Also, understand that indigenous tribes on this continent were living and dying by disease and by war for thousands of years before our ancestors ever knew the land existed. Peace.

[@t-pinmuscletherapy8418]

On Oral v. Written history. Both are "valid." That isn't the issue. The issue has to do with the degree to which they each can be accurately PRESERVED for the next generation who has a conversation, writes a book, or makes a KZbin video. Memory (v.s.) pen & ink. Hmm. Is THAT how Europeans learned to build castles before native Americans? (Serious question.)

[@t.l.1610]

FTI: I really liked the book “Our Beloved Kin” by Lisa Brooks. The website is a treasure trove of documents & maps.

[@rettapine9500]

So tell the truth Pilgrim s

[@neonrodenson1480]

Bout time I learned the truth about this holiday. Been all over this site and all I found was the fairy tale version told from the perspective of (respectfully) the White people.

[@omarcortes1169]

Healthy to learn other's view/perspective on history. Should we as a nation teach history ? Yes . Should the nation be on a guilt-trip about our imperfect formation of capitalism ?

[@shawnaweesner3759]

No, no, and no.

[@whitneyweaver4133]

Therein lies the question of CRT.

[@StreamingTruth]

Linda Coombs just sounds bitter.

[@christianfrommuslim]

Contrary to popular belief, Religious and Racial TOLERANCE in America BEGAN in Plymouth Colony. The Mayflower Compact assured peaceful coexistence of the religious separatists and the secular settlers who composed the "Pilgrims." Not all settlers to America were good or respectful of natives, but the Pilgrims were. They believed Leviticus 19:33,34, and so made laws that natives must be treated the same as whites. They even executed whites for killing a native. The great fear of the Pilgrims was that other groups would come to America who would mistreat the natives, and that this evil would be attributed to them. Sadly, that is exactly what happened.

[@owlnyc666]

History deals with facts. Myth deals with values. Perspective is the interpretation of facts, mixed with the myths of others and own myths? Myths are culturally subjective, history is ideally objective. .???🤔😉

[@rettapine9500]

Thanksgiving day is jus another day

[@BlurtNobrain]

Land has no name for no man can own the land

[@Augfordpdoggie]

i would like to enter yvonne russos chat box, if you know what i mean ;)

[@rettapine9500]

The abondancse they call was a big tradgedy

[@Con4dentual]

Dislike it cause everybody vocabulary are getting better, they were always stupid comments and dumb users, they way smarter over the iOS ... your somebody

[@rev.stephena.cakouros948]

Slanted reporting by PBS that will do anything to curb religion in America.

[@t-pinmuscletherapy8418]

There WAS a truce. They DID dine together. They DID depend on each other for protection and trade amidst MANY other tribes that had been warring (and dying) for thousands of years prior to European settlement. The Pilgrims did NOT bring disease and unconditional animus to the natives--the much earlier French/English explorers and fishermen brought the disease that wiped out most of the coastal tribes! Native tribes RECRUITED our ancestors to help them against other natives. Learn about King Phillip's War which came not too long after! MOST of the "Pilgrims" were women & children, NOT a cruel mob of angry white men. This history is preserved in WRITING from the early 1620's. Native history--as natives know it--comes reliably(?) by word of mouth?? Songs?? Or, "other" Europeans? What about Roger Williams?! He TAUGHT native languages to the Whites! And Myles Standish was the only one among the Pilgrims who took the time to learn to understand and speak the native languages! He was hired, then VOTED (1st democratic vote in our history!) by the Pilgrims to be their defender and protector! He DID HIS JOB. Really NOT so bad a guy. Learn more about him. And BTW, Hobomok was NOT his slave, but his dear friend.

[@bethr8756]

Well no they're hard the pilgrims brought smallpox to the indians. They also colonize them and it was a start of destruction for their people.

[@tripler3724]

First, if you don't live on the African Continent, you are not indigenous; we ALL came from elsewhere at different times. Over thousands of years there have been several significant populations arrive. Like everywhere else on this planet, warfare was common among different groups. Differing tribes were killing, conquering and enslaving each other well before the Pilgrims or other Europeans ever set foot on this continent. I've researched this and found your speakers interesting if not not somewhat off the mark in assuming the whites were or are all alike. I've traced my ancestry back and it is sobering to see who all came here and why. Do yourself a favor and do some research, make up your own mind. My Thanksgiving is not based on something that may or may not have happened in times gone by.

[@geekmeee]

There are no Blacks in Africa. They only become Black when they reach America 🇺🇸

[@KevinGonzales-ko8qx]

Are you from Mississippi or Alabama? "African-Americans are not immigrants!"

[@toidIllorTAmI]

@@geekmeee blame the Africans that sold them to America.

[@geekmeee]

@@toidIllorTAmI That’s like blaming the Mexican Cartel for America having a drug problem.

[@toidIllorTAmI]

@@geekmeee lmfao aw you're so innocent. Why do you think we wanted better boarders?

[@textaylors]

The rustling of paper was very disappointing

[@vladynick]

No my dear, you are on NY State land that is managed and governed by Westchester country, NYS and the USA govt! Your comfort and prosperity today come NOT from the Lenope Indians and slaves of the past, but from the hard working capitalists and wage earners of this USA nation over the past two centuries, especially of the past several decades! GET A GRIP ON REALITY!. While the Native Americans helped a bit with aid in farming, it was the American capitalist system where ALL were given the opportunity, as is so today, to make their own personal success via incentives, initiative, hard-work, self-motivation and persistence!!!

[@joecostu1571]

Is still a stolen land. And we the real AMERICANS have not died.

[@CaffarJaFire]

Capitalists working hard == 😂😂😂😂😂😅

[@ARROYOify]

this was almost painful to watch...not because of the perspective and information the producer attempted to convey but rather the total absence of any reasonable production values. It was crudely assembled with technical glitches and bad audio and did a disservice to the important message they intended to deliver.

[@rettapine9500]

The so call bpilgrims were desrepctful

[@KimmieNoel]

Y'all still lost if you're pretaking in so called Thanksgiving.