The Netcode Problem That Fromsoft CAN'T FIX - Elden Ring

The PvP netcode in Elden Ring has been a deterrent for many gamers to engange in PvP invasions or duels. However, despite behaving strangely, it has a way of functioning. Ranni explains how PvP works in Elden Ring, so you can make more of your PvE + PvP experience!
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[@OnlyWaifuYT]

What's the worst "Netcode moments" you can recall?

[@sagenebula7120]

I remember once in dark souls 3 a friend of mine got on a ladder in pontiffs backyard, and then we went up, my friend ended up stuck in the ladder climb animation while running at the silver knights, was extremely funny XD

[@tek512]

Probably watching some dude from the Netherlands teleport around like a damn DBZ character. Except, it wasn't helping him. He was as confused about what was going on as I was, and neither of us could really hit the other. When we *did* finally land hits, it was always a trade, and it was always on like a full ten second delay. The fight ended with us both spontaneously dying to damage we had no idea we took.

[@Hypostasy]

The connection error when I’m about to beat a dual naginiata bull goat ape :>

[@joaquinsharp4675]

I have the worst on my channel bro lagged so hard he t-posed ds1 pvp at its best😂 kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKDOfoyNlM17b6ssi=HQ1UVM1g4WdD4edB

[@thrustfrombehind9869]

Not the worst but the other party doesnt realise that I didnt "Alt+f4" and just disconnected despite him definetly knowing how bad connection issues can be in Elden Ring. Also all the worst Netcode moments are times when the other person is just "A" Posing while im spamming attacks on him and im getting damaged from nothing (Its obviously him attacking me on his side of the screen) Elden Ring is probably the worst modern day connection issue to this date

[@Wespa64]

That moment when the old Dark Souls 1 pvp guide videos are still relevant because the netcode is as ancient as the game series itself.

[@JJ-Smiles-86]

That Lag-Switch Clip... Priceless.

[@FullAdDariusBR]

I was concerned for the Chainsaw glitch, but it was against the (insert offensive word) hacker "Fight, don't run", so for this trash all I can say is, in Gryphon / Holden Cross's words: "Futue te ipsum! Mori in igni!"

[@Greywander87]

Short version: PvP involves time travel, where both you and your opponent are fighting past versions of each other. To hit you in the present, your opponent has to hit you in the past, which is why it can look like they attack empty air and hit you anyway; because past you was in that empty spot a moment ago. How far in the past is determined by how much latency. What I don't understand is why it has to be this way. Plenty of other online games don't seem to have nearly the same issues with latency that DS/ER does. I assume this has to do with how conflicts are handled (e.g. one player registers a hit while the other does not) and predicting the outcome before the data reaches the other player's machine.

[@dustrockblues7567]

PvP just isn't important enough to Fromsoft for them to take netcode seriously.... At least they have anti-cheat this time!

[@delrunplays2903]

It's part of the lore, obviously. Just as in the lands of Lordran, time is convoluted in the Lands Between. Totally not spaghetti code. Does Miyazaki look like an Italian to you?

[@scorpiowarrior7841]

It might be in part because irrc the souls series uses Peer to peer instead of having actual dedicated servers for the game.

[@ezraho8449]

@@scorpiowarrior7841 I’d look into the way fighting games like Street Fighter handle netcode. It seems souls games have the exact same issue. Servers would probably help a bit since it would remove the impact that someone having crappy internet would have but the issue is a bit more multifaceted than that.

[@glatykoffi6672]

​@@ezraho8449 They all use servers, phantom range would dissapear with the server authority, latency largely stops being an advantage. Now the big point won't be about the other guy's connection, but about your own with the server instead.

[@GalaxiaKnightX]

The Mystery thingy is Family Heads. A very odd looking flail. Never the less. I hope Roderika keeps her mystery thingie job.

[@markvandenthillart5739]

I second Roderika continuing to do mystery weapon!

[@Esponea_482]

I do love myself some Elden Spaghetti code!

[@Purplepikmin864]

How many times did you comment on this channel?

[@Astral161]

Latency issues like this occur in Peer to Peer(P2P) games (meaning one player is actually hosting a session, and one player is a client joining the session). The host is trying to read the information from clients as best as possible but obviously latency will make it receive delayed information. This doesn't happen in most other games because the creators pay for dedicated servers. The server exists to read info ( attacks and dodges in this case) from both parties and settle conflicts while more accurately displaying what's happening. Fromsoft has just never actually put up dedicated servers for any of these games and has kept the same P2P network frame since DS1. The network was only severly overhauled a little before ER came out because hackers could literally inject code onto other people's hardware so they tweaked it to patch out that weakness, but's largely still the same structure. P2P is just not a reliable connection style for hyper accurate interactions. Of course you can abust the system like this video suggests but it's still jank af. Like sure the duct tape works, but it's still avoiding the actual problem.

[@sergeykalisty7128]

Completely agreed. And the artificial latency from anti-cheat on top of that which once again proves that Fromsoftware just doesn't care.

[@reperfan4]

They actually did use dedicated servers back for the original Demon's Souls. They realized at some point they'd have to shut down the servers to Demon's Souls (which happened in early 2018) and at that point a big part of the game would just be gone. That's why they went over to the P2P system starting in Dark Souls, to futureproof the online aspect of the games. P2P has much less required physical infrastructure so they can essentially keep those games' online features running indefinitely.

[@matteolacerra7054]

This is exactly why I think from software games’ pvp is bad, the latency makes everything janky to the point you have to basically play a different game to what was intended, accounting for non intended mechanics and strategies. Saying “just learn to play around it” like he says isn’t a valid counter point at all and isn’t fixing the problem.

[@Thisisthegreatestatofalltime]

The netcode has actually improved before elden ring, ds3’s netcode is much better than ds1 but still they need to hire people that do cybersecurity cause fromsoft is bad at that and had to be basically shown step by step how to fix rce.

[@hunterprice321]

I was in the Colosseum and I was killed by melee from across the entire arena

[@evanbyrain]

i dont think thats ping or latency

[@Bladerunner39]

That’s not just latency, you were probably just dealing with a hacker.

[@Hypostasy]

Yeah P2P netcode sucks

[@JD_Volt]

It’s even worse in AC6 with no i frames.

[@shinobiofashina2168]

​@@JD_Voltarmoured core 6 has a server and a ping filter

[@GlaiveMistress]

No it doesn't its actually better than other options. Look at Lords of the fallen for example, that game had so much more horrible connection issues.

[@Hypostasy]

@@GlaiveMistress yeah but that’s LOTF, it’s crap in every way

[@Hypostasy]

@@shinobiofashina2168 nope, still p2p connection

[@MindofaMadMan69]

I nominate Roderika for the mystery thingy announcement.

[@WelcomeToDERPLAND]

For real, how is it possible that we are over a decade into these games and yet the netcode in ER may be one of the worst examples- during release, and for months afterwards, nearly EVERY invasion would end with disconnects and dropped connections, ridiculous.

[@SmokeNZA]

They dont want to lose profits

[@WelcomeToDERPLAND]

@@SmokeNZA It costs next to absolutely NOTHING to program GOOD NET CODE- PEOPLE IN DS2~3 MODS AND 1 AND EVEN DEMON SOULS UNOFFICIAL SERVERS- RUN BY THE COMMUNITY- HAVE FIXED EVERY NETCODE PROBLEM IN THE GAMES AND IN DS3 THEY QUITE LITERALLY DISCOVERED A BUG THAT ALLOWED REMOTE CONTROL ACCESS ADMIN PRIV ELEVATION TO RING 0--- BUGS, YOU MUST BE OUTTA YA D@MNABLE MINDO IF YOU THINK IT COSTS THEM ANYTHING TO HIRE ONE MALACKA WHO KNOWS HOW TO PROGRAM NETCODE. Also, dedicated servers =/= as good net code. Even then, good servers would cost them NEXT TO BLOODY NOTHING in comparison to the BILLIONS that the game raked in.

[@reginal1849]

Or try to code it yourself we will see your results 😅😂

[@_BBAGG_]

The Mystery Weapon is the Family Heads Fun Fact, the Family Heads is a reference to Pinwheel, and the Scaling Spells out DAD at +10

[@realQuestion]

you have to type "Blythe" if you want the AI to say Blaidd's name correctly

[@OnlyWaifuYT]

Noted

[@anonimoexplosivo200]

I'm bad overall at rolling on PvE, that's why my rolls on PvP feel so good...damn...

[@Tarnishedwarrior1958]

1:23 that double parry is chef's kiss

[@One_Millisec]

Oh no! I've been hit by a box! I'm hurt(box!)

[@Esponea_482]

🥁

[@pdgserafin4059]

tried to find information, found 7 min random rant and 30 seconds of use full information. thx for great video.

[@TrainingMacro]

Both latency and lag are the same thing. What you described as lag is just latency well beyond the bounds of what is reasonable. This often happens when either the game or connection is unstable and the messaging just cuts out for a while. The clients have some slack on what is considered a 'disconnect' and thus the warping you see is the game recovering from said interruption in messaging.

[@maudjito]

At its essence, yeah. But the distinction the video makes is on dropped packages or lag spikes, as opposed to consistent high latency.

[@Forgotten_A.I.]

I'm glad to see a thorough explanation on latency.

[@lexiath]

"i'll be seeing you on our next video" ranni:oh no u don't

[@Zarziii]

Just started playing Elden Ring again in prep for the DLC. Found your channel and I think your videos are awesome! You are only doing Elden Ring Content do you? Would like to see more from you :)

[@dokuganryyu]

I hope the next DLC is a dedicated server for pvp

[@sagenebula7120]

Thatd be nice, although ive always felt players die way too fast in elden ring pvp for either side compared to other souls games

[@tek512]

@@sagenebula7120 Because most people are allergic to leveling vigor for some unknown reason.

[@TheDracoManGamer]

I do need to thank this channel the most for teaching me about Phantom Hits and Lag. I now know which is which ❤

[@albert1990ish]

7:18 that dang scream every time 😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@rusPiglets]

That's the pinwheel certified classic - family heads. Roderika could host some other mystery thing, like guess the bossroom, or guess which food gives this particle effect. Or where a certain message was found. Good luck with keeping yer job.

[@Unknown_Shadow-zh8qy]

2:45 is prime example of the true potential of souls pvp. trades happen in situations where one player genuinely outplays the other like an unsheathe aow r1 timed early on someone starting up gianthunt or something and still make it a trade

[@Uradyn]

I love your content. Wonderful art and funny videos.

[@christopherzirkel1792]

That I do. Whenever I thought I dodged the attack, it somehow hits me.

[@ludareinoso381]

Adrian :3 u should make a video about the virtual latency that is experienced in steam and why a lot of content pvp creators switch to ps5 for that reason

[@Arnveld]

Waifu you're one of the best ER youtubers!

[@PlayStationInquisition]

You guys should do a guessing game for the songs you play in the background, like cloister of trials - mushroom rock road, and other FFX tracks. 😉

[@shambleshef]

Didn't even finish the first line and I noticed that phantom hit status gauge already 😂

[@Rexsar813]

Seeing Fight do not run get exploded and screaming into the void made my day. That guys been around a lot recently… I finally killed him again! But it was his failt, he decided to fight me without his usually bhs bleed spam. He pulled out gugs and we had surprisingly honest fight. I came out on top. I blocked him… again. He’ll be back tho, keeps making new alts…

[@yadeel8281]

I would love to see a video on how PvE and PvP affect each other regarding buffs and nerfs, mostly being PvP nerfing stuff in PvE (for example, Stars of Ruin getting hurt in PvE because of PvP)

[@paulyfire9466]

This video was awesome! Had many laughs at the funny moments😂🖤❤

[@TRIC4pitator]

yeah, this is the main reason i don't come remotely close to pvp. it's just too annoying to deal with it , and it gets in the way of fun

[@hermitcard4494]

I will explain more easily how latency works: just imagine Diavolo's King Crimson power. There you go.

[@098Xzibit]

It was always like that in fromsoft games. Best tip there is to pvp is to imagine a mirror ghost of yourself that's delayed ~1 sec or so (depending on latency)

[@johndang897]

In invasions, is it host that are latent or is it other people who are latent?

[@lorgren4002]

7:18 lol this is so funny, made me laugh out loud

[@Mischievous_Moth]

Is the mystery weapon Family Heads? Honestly need to try using that weapon sometime.

[@That-One-Friend01]

I recently met a hacker for the first time, they are really annoying

[@necrolios4640]

If you're on pc you run into a lot.

[@pokeface119]

I think the summoning failing is also an issue lol It unironically fails about 1/3rd the time and we're just waiting several minutes for it to actually realize it failed.

[@emilnybo]

Mystery weapon is family heads found in altus

[@imtooexpensive2660]

Mystery weapon is the Family Heads

[@Braincel85]

I love the how the fact that the player in almost in the end vid just gone lol and with the scream edit 💀

[@TheDevourerOfGods]

The mystery thingy is the Family Heads

[@UncleBready]

I think the mystery thingy might be the Family Heads, a weapon that I have but forgot how I got it

[@galacticbackshots]

i infact have encountered the same scenario in pvp but in the form of the guy having no animations just moving like a weeping angel, walking away and as i try to heal, i die. over 40 meters away half of my hp is gone in a fraction of a second. i dont even know what happened.

[@Spoonri]

On their screen, they've been attacking you and having their attacks go through you for the past 20-30 seconds. When the latency catches up, it registers ALL of those hits all at once. Its a bit different to what Waifu is talking about, but kinda in the same ball park. This happens a lot when I'm playing during EU/Asia active hours; I attack a dude but he doesn't register the hit for another 20 seconds but their attacks hit me immediately. On their screen, I'm doing the T-post shit that you see other people do. So for the person who's t-posing, they're kinda screwed if you try to play aggressively since every time they want to go up and trade a hit with you or try to hit you with combos, it won't work so all you gotta do is just be aggressive against them and hope that you hit them enough times before their hits register on you. Alternatively, you can guess and hope to god that you roll just before their hits register so you I-frame through the damage but predicting spontaneous lag like that is next to impossible.

[@blueberry4209]

When that happens, your best bet is to act like they're running and you're trying to roll catch or use a solid ash like waterfowl

[@dbzexpertone]

damn didn't know the chainsaw bug was still a thing thought they fixed that ages ago

[@vct2345]

can you do a video oil up ranking the best summons that no one uses ??? 🙏🙏

[@panoctic]

lol i remember being hit like really far away with the dragon bone smasher lol, seems the latency has its demon souls day from time to time.

[@monocman1224]

How do you make the Ranni voice?

[@nojuslieliunga6498]

The mystery thingie is the family heads.

[@runasth]

First, the mystery weapon is the Family Heads. Second, it sucks that PvP in ER feels like an after thought. Oh well, at least we have it in the first place.

[@almightytwinkie2171]

Waifu, I don't know if you've heard this yet, but you're getting amazing at tuning this AI Voice. It sounds nigh human, minus a couple letters. The annunciation, flavor, grammar exclamation, it's all so much better than a year ago. I don't know how you do it, but I applaud your ability to do so

[@user-dx6kd7vd1u]

Love the channel ❤

[@fluffybear69420]

love the silent hill odst and the vids

[@Malxer]

Mystery weapon: Family Heads

[@Daiemonadolor]

Noone gonna talk about that dodge at 7:07 ?

[@are3287]

The lag switch clip reminds me of the time I beat someone in a 1v1 invasion in Ds3 so he friended me, sent me a message asking for a 1v1 duel which I foolishly accepted and then he did that and pretended to not know anything

[@junoglrr9119]

imagine feeling superior by lag switching.. god some people have some insane distorted views

[@Phoenix-sc6di]

This is one of the main reasons why I never enjoyed Fromsofts PvP all that much.

[@johndang897]

How can people lag switch and still stay connected, and why does it benefit the lag switcher?

[@KimeriX]

The true problem is that status effects bypass the "i rolled" part of the message, if they hit you on their screen, when you recieve the message "i hit you" you will automatically have their status effect applied.

[@daveb305]

It’s fine people, just adjust. What other game have you played for 2 years straight?

[@Dracoboss98]

I’m still not convinced that the tip of a great thrusting sword doesn’t create a vast invisible field of death in front of it, much like the chainsaw glitch. I swear to god, I wish there was a “wired connection only” lobby in the colosseum 😂

[@wolvenedvard3049]

1:38 those are blood vessels... Yeah. 😅

[@krisjohnson813]

I have been watching these videos for the past few days and have discovered that I may suck at Elden Ring. That’s a good thing because they have helped me improve my PVP and helped me change how I view getting invaded. I still get my face kicked in but in a more enjoyable way. Thank you for the instructions.

[@Thisisthegreatestatofalltime]

Interestingly enough the only Fromsoft souls game with servers was Demon’s souls. World tendency was based off this while online and there was even holiday events that would override the normal server world tendency. The remake didn’t carry over the world tendency mechanics and idk if it had its own servers.

[@NightEnder]

mystery weapon might be the family heads but im not sure

[@gimborino739]

keep posting i really love ur vid

[@zockertube1114]

The Mystery Ting is a flail called Family Heads

[@NightRider167]

i wonder if it would be possible for rollback netcode to be a thing in non 1v1 fighting games

[@user-rz2qm4bw1p]

Latancey is the definition of "reading your enemy like a book"

[@TNinja0]

Latency really makes Elden Ring an entirely different game from the base game. You just roll not out of reaction, but out of fear.

[@davidevalenti633]

idk how i found out that the weapon is the Family Heads, btw I'm happily getting into pvp thanks to your videos

[@laughy0467]

Family Heads is the mystery weapon!

[@stevemichael652]

Imagine playing pvp in elden ring in the first place

[@bleedszn]

does this have to do w tick rate

[@centy4773]

Kinda forgot this weapon exists, but the mystery weapon is the Family Heads.

[@williamsolis3678]

Wing of Astel? Idk I just saw magic stuff. Have a jolly cooperative day everyone! ❤

[@SuperDragonBlader]

There's a reason why I don't set my network settings to Crossregion: this. Also, mystery weapon is Family Heads.

[@jupapi0173]

the mystery weapon is the moonlight greatsword?

[@caseycoker1051]

Yeah, I can't help but wonder if something like rollback net code in fighting games can be implemented in these games. I don't know enough about how it works to say much.

[@sprocket7626]

Roderika's mystery thingy is the umm Family Heads

[@Schizobaj]

mystery thingy is Regalia of Eochaid

[@Tea-n-such]

The Canada g9 joke is great love u guys

[@JDmanser]

The mystery weapon is the family heads. Let em roll!

[@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64]

Mystery Thingy is none other than the Family Heads.

[@ArtoriasWannabe]

The MYSTERY WEAPON is the Family Heads !

[@SarcasticFish115]

The mystery weapon is Family Heads, I believe.

[@EpicRival107]

Honestly I knew about latency, only thing I hate about being invaded is when I’m doing something and the invader ends up bc a bs build that pisses me and my friend off lol

[@EpicRival107]

Also why I stay away from PVP 😂😂

[@Geckur0]

mystery weapon is Family heads, you get it from that bastard necromancer in that cave in that one place i forget where it is.

[@zeronator2]

about the lag-swich, I remember that happens to andrusouls before. Was a cheater of Chinese country but was using Germany VPN if I not remember bad

[@SwaxMain4u]

And this is why i cant blame people for not wanting to deal with souls invasions

[@procow2274]

We could just go back to link cables like the good ole fromsoft days

[@Vic-pg4rg]

Well I got the last weapon right. Still should put the scaling or requirements as shown some of the weapons have the same stats. Well anyways, my guess for this mystery weapon is the Family Heads.

[@ITZDavid101]

i one time loaded into a lobby and then the guy was stuck in place so i just smacked it a bunch, then died.

[@DerrangedGadgeteer]

Since she seems to have taken to calling us by power tool names in the mystery weapon sections... I'm waiting to hear about her adorable "4-axis turning centers."

[@thewatchdog3803]

I think the mystery... thingy.. is the Family Heads?