The New Cumberland Line: A New Railway for Sydney?

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[@thetrainguy4]

Lots of people have asked why I didn't mention an L4 extension to Epping. I should have discussed this in the video, but it's not as good an idea as it sounds. Getting out of Carlo would require a bored tunnel (very expensive) and overall the journey time would not be competitive with the existing bus. Higher capacity maybe but not a true higher-order connection.

[@jack2453]

Not convinced. There is plenty of land around Carlingford Station and trams could cross the intersection on the surface as at Anzac Pde/Alison Rd; or very short tunnel as at Moore Park. Speeds would not be ideal, but you need to remember that most trips would not start at Epping, so would be two mode rather than three with waiting and transfer times to consider. Above all though it's deliverability. I would much rather have nice on 2028 than excellent in 2045.

[@RestoreInnerWestLine]

Caringford to Epping tram tunnels be less expensive than metro tunnels from Merrylands to Epping (not to mention opportunity cost of abandoning the Y-Link)

[@thetrainguy4]

@@jack2453the problem is the massive hill between Carlo LR and Carlo court. Way too steep for a tram.

[@carisi2k11]

Unlike a metro that will require a bored tunnel the whole way and be even more expensive.

[@carisi2k11]

@@RestoreInnerWestLine The y link is used for freight as well and not just passenger traffic.

[@quarkcypher]

Parramatta to Epping rail should have been built years ago. I was disappointed when the state Labor government didn't proceed with the project. Cost has highly inflated now. We need to build today for tomorrow. Imagine if the Sydney Harbour Bridge had been left for future generations to build.

[@Gary-vv5gt]

@@quarkcypher I ponder how will the north west line exist if the parramatta to Epping part was done and how services would work since it’s limited as hell due to 20 tph on the harbor bridge and upper north shore eat up a lot of the slots. Or would have been just stand alone parramatta to Chatswood and if your coming from the north west, you would have to change trains to north shore to cbd… And I wonder would the nwrl be a lot different (like go though top ryde/Drummoyne and Balmain).

[@6braceface]

Surely an underground extension of the stage 1 parramatta light rail from Carlingford to Epping is worth consideration. It’s a project that can be completed in isolation without disrupting any other infrastructure. It can have a below ground or ground level interchange at Epping. It could even continue through to Macquarie park.

[@tangiers365]

Bingo

[@thetrainguy4]

Far too expensive- it’d need a bored tunnel to get out of Carlingford, and it’d be only marginally faster than the current bus.

[@kyletopfer7818]

@@thetrainguy4 The 550 bus takes 25 minutes *at 10pm when no-one is catching it*, most of the time it takes 32-34 minutes and in peak over 35 minutes if you look at the timetable. The L4 will take 18 minutes from Parramatta to Carlingford, if you tunnel from the existing stop to Carlingford Court then a stop at Epping Primary School then Epping station, you make the journey time consistently around 25 minutes. Not game-changing, but also with consistent service every 7-8 minutes on the LR far more attractive than the bus 550. Regardless I think it would absolutely be worthwhile extending L4 line to Carlingford shops though to give access to all the homes and businesses there, but this might be better buying 1-2 of the properties in the way and doing a short cut-and-cover up to Carlingford shops carpark. But the idea of taking the Leppington line and tunnelling it through Parramatta-Carlingford-Epping definitely has legs no doubt about it, it would free up a lot of capacity.

[@listohan]

Carlingford Light Rail will continue to fail to reach its potential without being extended to Epping How can its cost be justified otherwise? Or do we not bother to justify the cost?

[@listohan]

@@thetrainguy4 Carlingford Road congestion is not getting any less

[@r-labs9357]

They should have just extended the GODDAM Carlingford line

[@kyletopfer7818]

That wouldn't have dealt with the bottleneck at Granville though.

[@carisi2k11]

Extending the light rail will be the best solution. Not going to waste money on a similar line when the light rail can be used for this purpose.

[@thetrainguy4]

Read the pinned comment. It wouldn't.

[@TangaraTrainExplain]

I find this proposal interesting because it finally closes the so-called "uncrossable zone". I do have a few comments to say though. 1. A station box at Carlingford would be relatively easy to build, as there is plenty of land near the tram stop reserved for the never-built PECRL. It could even be a cut-out station like Cherrybrook or Bella Vista. 2. There could be space for the Epping platforms west of the intermediate level (the mini-concourse between the Trains and the Metro). I could see esculators being installed to the west of the intermediate level that connect to new platforms, just west of the Metro Tracks. 3. I like how there are lots of interchanges on this line, as it makes it a lot more accessable for passengers.

[@kyletopfer7818]

Agree, but just on your point 3. are you referring to the possible interchanges along the line at: Glenfield Liverpool Cabramatta Parramatta Carlingford Epping And on your point 2. whatever they do at Epping, they need to make it possible for a fourth track on the main line to be built as it is a major bottleneck going forward especially once they quad track the entire northern line from North Strathfield to Epping (still missing quad track from Rhodes to West Ryde). The situation with the roads around there is also dire, they need to find a way to strangle traffic and reroute the bulk of cars away for the immediate vicinity of the station.

[@mattmuschalik1348]

Look at the Parramatta Council flood study. The area north of the light rail stop is a flood retention area

[@kyletopfer7818]

@@mattmuschalik1348 its been reserved and planned for a Future Station for decades, originally back in the early-middle 20th century the Carlingford Line was first planned to be extended out NW towards Dural.

[@mattmuschalik1348]

Costa botched it. And Gladys even more so with the introduction of her pet metro in the Chatswood - Epping tunnel. She did an unbelievable damage to the rail system in Sydney. She had no idea what a metro is really about. The Y-link should NOT be abandoned. It is very useful for those in the West who need to go to Liverpool. If the New Cumberland line is a metro to go to the Western Sydney airport it would have to be 25KV. So that cannot use platforms 5 and 6 in Epping. Moreover, Meriton is now building an apartment tower corner Pennant Hills Rd/Marsden Rd with 7 levels of basement car parks, which could be in the way of a metro tunnel. I mentioned that in my submission but Parra Council was not concerned. There should be a station under Carlingford Court shopping Centre. The whole "planning" is in a TOTAL MESS.

[@kyletopfer7818]

Yeah sorry but you clearly have no idea if you think an extended New Cumberland Line would/should use platforms 5 and 6, nor trying to lecture transport planners on what you think "a metro is really about". The Y-link wouldn't be abandoned, it would still be useful for freight until an outer orbital freight line is built. Those in the west needing to go to Liverpool would only have to make 1 change at Parramatta, but as the documents in this video shows the journey time would be faster overall, and there would be 6 up to 12 trains per hour to Liverpool from Parramatta rather than the current 2 trains per hour, so you are better off. The NCL Metro box can be cut north-south giving an underground north-south connection between both stations for Metro West and Sydney Trains for easy interchange. The New Cumberland Line if built as a Metro would not need to interline with Western Sydney Airport Metro and would not need to be 25kV AC, you have plucked that out of thin air. It would now be much easier to build a station box underneath Carlingford Court or Village (or Penno Road or Carlingford Road), which can take both a future deep-level NCL Metro, a slightly extended L4 light rail under Penno Road, and a bus interchange. I agree the planning is messy, but there is a much more coherent plan than the absolute crap the Libs inherited in 2011, before that it was truly shambolic and Labor 1990s-2011 have a LOT to answer for (and I am no fan of the libs).

[@Gary-vv5gt]

@@kyletopfer7818 I even thought of something of replicated Anzac line, which spurs off the western metro at the bays, go via Balmain, drummyone, Gladesville, top ryde, west ryde (some station in between west ryde and carlingford), Carlingford, (north rocks or some station on oaks ave to connect to M2 buses) then castle hill. The L4 can be connected to carlingford court though a small tunnel at pennant hills rd and terminate there. A dugout would be built where the open air carlingford car park is and it’s would be - Ground: parking or even a outdoor plaza extension of carlingford court with stairs/escalators or lifts to L4 and Anzac line metro - Lower ground: L4 line terminus to parra, maybe 1-2 platforms like current carlingford terminus. - B1: concourse and fare gate for metro, would have to be at a different angle since L4 light rail faces west and metro facing north west or south east. - B2: platforms

[@ollie2074]

Another Idea. The Epping to Parramatta link could be used as an intercity line. Central Coast services could run onto from Epping, then thru new tunnels to Parramatta and then down to Glenfield, Campbelltown and then beyond to the southern highlands or build a new route to Wollongong from Campbelltown.

[@ollie2074]

The central coast services could be boosted as the capacity is constrained further in, it shares tracks with Blue Mt and South Coast lines into Central

[@kyletopfer7818]

I have thought about something like this too, especially thinking about whether you could combine new tunnels between Parramatta and Epping with the new Newcastle High Speed Rail line and then you can get away from the bottleneck which is Epping station. But the reality is you are probably going to want to tunnel basically most of the way from Sydney to Gosford in order to get that high speed so then its not much help.

[@MaxS-hn8we]

There needs to be a more direct North/South metro that connects all train and metro lines but Epping is not it. Macquarie Park to Sydney Airport via Sydney Uni would be much more useful.

[@kyletopfer7818]

If you look at the diagram in the video @2:31 you will see there is a planned north-south line that does the job you are talking about going from Macquarie Park to Ryde, Rhodes, Olympic Park, Strathfield, Campsie, Kingsford, Kogarah, Sydney Airport and Randwick. But what the New Cumberland Line does is solve the bottleneck at Granville, taking the conflict away from T1-T2-T5, and reduce travel times significantly for the Liverpool area.

[@sydneyrailfan]

Man, I just want a express or high capacity bus from botany or eastgardens, pagewood area it takes about 1 hour or more to get to the city and only 6 kms away, they all only takes you to Redfern (392, 309) 😢 plus the buses are always PACKED

[@kyletopfer7818]

Man if it takes you an hour to do 6km on the 392 or 309, you would be WAY better getting a bike and cycling to the L3 or the T8. The 309 runs via Green Square though and you can change to T8 there, the 350 takes you directly to Mascot station and you can also change to T8. But Eastgardens is 8.2km from Town Hall as the crow flies. They should absolutely be extending the Light Rail to at least Maroubra Junction, ridiculous they aren't and such a missed opportunity.

[@sydneyrailfan]

Yeah i certainly agree with you it would be such a missed opportunity them not extending the light rail to maroubra and ultimately hopefully ending up in little bay with all the mass development being made there!

[@kyletopfer7818]

@@sydneyrailfan You know what, of all the low-hanging fruit in Australia for easy transit wins, the extension of light rail further down the Anzac Parade has to be the lowest-hanging of them all. You have a nice, wide, fast, straight road capable of taking trams up to 60-70kmh; there is a stack of public transport demand in the area; you could redeploy dozens of buses & bus drivers to other jobs; and you could make so much money out of upzoning developments along the route. The only other project I can think of that has anywhere near the same level of benefits is in Hobart which has a former railway just sitting there going all the way through it and they are struggling with buses as well!

[@thebats5270]

Great video. On your points for the line going driverless, I believe there's an adequate business case to build the additional third track for freight services, as the corridor has the space for an additional track in most areas except around the existing station. The freight line would only need to extend from Merrylands to Cabramatta where it could join the South Sydney Freight Line (SSFL). That would then allow for the separated corridor as has been done on the Bankstown Line. For the most part the corridor from Merrylands through to Glenfield has straight platforms with the exception of Fairfield, Cabramatta and Casula, though there is a long straight before the Fairfield platform that could be incorporated into the platform or have the platform shuffled as has been done on the Bankstown line. Sticking points would be things like Pine Road level crossing which would need a solution. This would likely be a rail bridge over Pine Road. Another sticking point would also be Cabramatta station as it is very congest and the curved platform exists, plus the freight line would need to cross the Main South to get to the SSFL. The alternative could be an underground station at Cabramatta to allow passenger trains from the Main South to terminate in the existing station on two platforms and have a run through and connections for the SSFL without needing a complex junction. You'd then have the metro line rejoin the existing tracks further towards the country end where there is space, either on the country or city side of Cabramatta Creek. I don't have a solution for Casula station. That's my thoughts anyway. I'm sure they'll sort it out or do something much worse. Again, great video!

[@kyletopfer7818]

I dunno if it would be more worthwhile to cause the disruption of building a third track, maybe it is an I am open to that but if so I would electrify it too; Pine Road can just be closed eh. I think they should instead divert freight away from the Sydney passenger network entirely by building the proposed outer orbital freight connections: www.transport.nsw.gov.au/system/files/media/documents/2018/CP0035A_OSO_Brochure_WCAG_1.pdf

[@peterhoz]

They need to extend the Tallawong line to St Marys to link to the Airport metro, and extend the Airport metro to Macarthur to bring the Oran Park / Narellan area into the rail network catchment. The Macarthur extension should be the highest priority, closely followed by the Tallawong extension so that Hills district people can get to the new airport sans cars.

[@thetrainguy4]

Corridors are protected between Tallawong and St Marys iirc and between Bradfield, Leppington and Oran Park. I suspect Schofields will be the main interchange not St Marys but I do think it’ll get built soon too.

[@Gary-vv5gt]

I was bored out of my head so i designed up a map using current and future line. I used a spur off from the current west metro spliting off at the bays to serve balmain, gladesville, top ryde, west ryde, (something in between west ryde and carlingford, maybe another eastwood interchange or denistone?), carlingford court (also extend tram to at least the court there using a trench or whatnot system, what i could see, top layer would be carpark for the court and entry point to both tram and metro, lower 1st floor would be for the parra trams, basement for concorse for metro and b2 for metro services), (probs a north rocks or interchange with m2 buses) and then terminate in castle hill or even can be even connected with current NWRL. Would also be worthwhile if the west metro gets extended to the east, also drew that up serving the higher density of the east (could be a art gallery, st vinnies, moore park (or even a station more north towards the SFS end), usual UNSW, kengiston, kingsford. Then rather than the other plans of extending it to la parouse or whatnot (i came up with extending the current tram instead to there), i would go to eastgardens (reason why because its much more dense than la parouse and also westfield there), botany and can even join in with airport station where its can terminate there or wolli creek.

[@blue.square]

so something similar to the anzac line that was proposed in the early 2000s? also, if something like your proposal were to happen, the interchange with the northern line would probably be at eastwood, it would only be at denistone to save money

[@Gary-vv5gt]

@@blue.square yep simlair to Anzac line which was actually an really good idea. Sorta surprising how labor didn’t follow though. I think that idea would have kicked the ass the nwrl link for sure… Ether denistone or Eastwood would be fine…. Eastwood more preferable with high human traffic but if is saves a bit of money, then denistone would be okay…

[@jack2453]

The Parramatta metro should have gone along Victoria Road rather than south of the river.... but too late now.

[@kyletopfer7818]

@@jack2453 The documentation and modelling shows way more passenger demand along the Metro West corridor than along the Victoria Road corridor. Victoria Road will get relief anyway from Metro West as you can divert bus services away from the city and towards bus interchanges at The Bays and Five Dock. Victoria Road will also see relief when they build the North-South Metro which is meant to have an interchange at Top Ryde. The busiest section of the Victoria Road corridor to Drummoyne could then have its tram line returned.

[@jack2453]

@@Gary-vv5gt Fair enough. What do you mean by North-South metro? I can't help thinking that a better (and cheaper) solution for the east-west corridor would have been higher capacity (limited stop 12 car trains) on the T1 plus metro along Victoria Rd plus light rail the full length of Parramatta Rd.

[@tangiers365]

When is tallawong going to get to schofields??????

[@kyletopfer7818]

If they are going to do another station at Epping I hope they do a proper job of it and fix up Epping overground station too with a fourth platform, as this is a fairly significant bottleneck. Also the map you pulled out @3:44 appears to have the Parramatta NCL platform a fair distance away from the existing Sydney Trains station, I had hoped they could build this between the Metro West and Sydney Trains platforms as a sort of underground mega interchange.

[@patrickc211]

If I’m being honest, I would think adding the Parra-Epping link should be done via a Cumberland-like line paralleling the T1 from Penrith before going into underground platforms beneath Parra station, before going up to Epping and hopefully Berowra. That would rely on quadrupication of the main north line, but would both provide the needed link and increase frequencies on the outer branches. Call it the T11 Hawkesbury line and you’re golden

[@staryoshi06]

This would be great. I think I would prefer a sydney trains solution for maximum flexibility, but a metro option could make the epping platform easier as they could have it be underground next to the existing platforms (or perhaps even underneath?).

[@kyletopfer7818]

In what way would a Sydney Trains solution offer maximum flexibility? The Sydney rail network doesn't need more flexibility, it needs proper sectorisation: moving each individual corridor as much as possible to its own segregated tracks operating independently. Digging 12km of new tunnels for slower less manouverable double-deckers isn't more flexible either, it is the exact opposite for what it's worth!

[@staryoshi06]

@@kyletopfer7818 Agree to disagree. Flexibility in changing/adding routes for trackwork and events, or based on metrics, is a strength of the network in my opinion.

[@kyletopfer7818]

@@staryoshi06 fine to see it that way but you have to be honest about the costs - significantly slower, significantly worse frequency, significantly more expensive to run, significantly more expensive to buy new rolling stock, significantly more chance of disruption, higher chance of injury or incidents and so on.

[@thetrainguy4]

With the hybrid solution trains could still be frequent (24tph at least, possibly 30tph depending on train design), isolated in regular operation but still allow flexibility at Leppington etc. it would be more expensive to operate but rolling stock wouldn’t be, nor would it be slower than metro. Injury would be no higher than the current system in the open and would be equal to metro underground.

[@kyletopfer7818]

@@thetrainguy4 that Sounds fine If you can actually get Sydney Trains to operate a line like that, but you think the Union will allow driver only operation with automation and PSDs (which is what I meant about less safe)?

[@geoffreyhansen8543]

What about having an interchange Metro station at Rydalmere for the light rail and extending the light rail to Epping in a tunnel? That would sort of be close to the old plans.

[@kyletopfer7818]

That doesn't solve the problems of the bottleneck at Granville; the Carlingford LR would be too slow; and Metro West tunneling to Parramatta has already begun, diverting the tunnel boring machines to Rydalmere would cost billions and take years longer plus the journey time between Parramatta and the CBD would be slower.

[@RestoreInnerWestLine]

Thank you for making this important video. The New Cumberland Line is a major change to the rail network but no public consultation has been undertaken by the NSW Government. New Cumberland Line is almost certainty Metro, as it's to be the future future extension of Western Sydney Airport Metro Stage 2 (Aerotropolis to Glenfield). Western Sydney Airport Metro tunnels have already been completed as 3 carriage metro services which means the New Cumberland Line will also be 3 carriage metro to Epping. Freight access to Yennora isn't an issue as Western Sydney Freight Line Stage 2 is for Yennora to Leightonfield (Southern Sydney Freight Line) so Cumberland Line no longer needs freight. Inner West Line: Liverpool via Regents Park is again to be removed in the 2030s so there is no track sharing between Liverpool-Cabramatta. Buses to replace trains in the West of Bankstown. NSW Future Transport Strategy 2056 was published in context of Parliamentary Inquiry into Sydenham-Bankstown line conversion recommendation that the Inner West Line: Liverpool via Regents Park be restored. The 2024 timetable restoring the Inner West Line: Liverpool via Regents Park is only temporary as Transport for NSW has since made new internal considerations to remove the line again in the long-term future.

[@thetrainguy4]

Most of this is hearsay. One of the documents explicitly showed a double decker in NCL platforms and metro trains in other platforms. Bradfield can have more than 2 platforms too, it is greenfield…

[@RestoreInnerWestLine]

@@thetrainguy4 We would love the T5 Cumberland Line to be Sydney Trains as that enables Inner West Line: Liverpool via Regents Park to be retained. There is significant leanings for the New Cumberland Line to be metro within Transport for NSW and local councils. We have seen more internal Transport planning about the line as metro since we posted the 2 documents you've mentioned in this video from our website. The New Cumberland Line as metro was also raised by the Legislative Assembly Committee into Transport and Infrastructure at the recent Parliament Inquiry into transport for the Western Sydney Airport. Parramatta Council's 2050 Strategy based on Future Transport Strategy also has the New Cumberland Line as metro to Epping. Many local Councils along the corridor have said to us that the line is expected to be metro. Aerotropolis (Bradfield) can and should be built as metro and train. And Western Sydney Airport International Airport Terminal should be both metro and train too (but that would involve more construction/cost which government appears reluctant to undertake). If Sydney Trains is extended to Aerotropolis (Bradfield) but not the actual Western Sydney International Airport Terminal, this would be result in airport passengers going to/from Sydney Airport having to change trains twice (WSA - Aerotropolis/Bradfield - Glenfield - Sydney Airport).

[@thetrainguy4]

@RestoreInnerWestLine Interesting. I don’t back your idea of an airport to airport connection though, it’d be pretty useless. The few people who will travel between them can change at Glenfield.

[@kyletopfer7818]

@@RestoreInnerWestLine The platforms on the WSA Metro are able to be extended to 4-car trains when needed, not 3-car trains; and the station boxes themselves have been cut long enough for longer trains if they are needed in future. Do you have information that suggests the NCL would need significantly more capacity than 20 trains per hour using 4-car trains? 4-car trains are preferable as they are cheaper to run, easier to police anti-social behaviour, and they can stop closer to the middle of platforms.

[@jack2453]

Lots of great comments here and lots of food for thought. Looks like this might be building up to be the 'next big thing' for rail in Sydney - and it is a big thing. 13 km or so of tunneled metro from Merrylands to Epping, multi-line interchange stations at Parramatta and Epping, conversion to metro from Merrylands to Cabramatta or Liverpool or whatever. So its essentially the same scale as the City/SW metro project. So the question is will the benefits (improving acess between Epping and Parramatta and improving congestion at Granville) justify the cost i.e. could these benefits be delivered more cheaply? And are there higher priority projects that the money could be spent on? Genuine questions.

[@brad4013]

Sounds expensive. Extend the parramatta light rail to Epping via a tunnel. Is there really enough demand for a full scale metro?

[@jack2453]

Good point. Given the density of Sydney, especially Western Sydney, a dense network of LR and busways would possibly provide better access and connectivity to more people than a few expensive metros.

[@bendowson3124]

Small correction: you mentioned the 550 bus but showed the 549 bus on screen.

[@thetrainguy4]

They both run over nearly the same route- the 550 is more direct but if there's a 549 before it'll just be quicker. The second one on screen was a 550.

[@bendowson3124]

@@thetrainguy4 I know that, it’s just that you only mentioned the 550 bus while simultaneously showing the 549 bus route.

[@joshtirado7337]

Oatlands could be given a station and so, the sharp turn wouldn't be needed and a N P'matta station would be placed further up and train situation, the car' config' can be a 8 car' SDDS deck (Single and Double)

[@mark123655]

Does demand really exist though. Epping itself is pretty small, even if a decent interchange. Personally think Parramatta is too far out for an orbital and Parramatta itself is more expensive to build given water level and existing multi+storey buildings. I'd prefer to reuse the remaining T3 Bankstown to Lidcombe, and Olympic Park shuttle with a new underground platform at Lidcombe. You'd then ignore the loop at Olympic Park and tunnel straight ahead to say Wentworth Point, West Ryde, Macquarie Park/Uni and Gordon. And then the other side to Kogarah as per the plans. Still connects to Main North and M1, but also to the North Shore line.

[@thetrainguy4]

Demand from Chatswood to Parramatta? All of the documents reckon so.

[@listohan]

Epping may be small (pop 29,550 in 2021 census) but it is being subjected to more additional residential development near the station than other TOD sites.

[@mattmuschalik1348]

PERL was designed to bring passengers between CBD/North Sydney and Western Sydney via Epping. Gladys botched it by introducing her stupid, incompatible metro in the ECRL tunnel. She irreversibly turned everything upside down. The $26 bn West Metro should apparently replace the lost link. But it will be filled with new immigrants moving into apartment towers around the new stations. Interchange at Westmead will be terrible.

[@imya234]

Can you do a vid on the line from the plan that goes from norwest to Miranda via Parra? That line would actually be heaps useful for me, shame it won’t be built until at least 2150.

[@thetrainguy4]

I probably will eventually

[@1canaris]

How about using Eastwood, which already gets southbound express trains from the Central Coast?

[@jellofishy-vlog]

Yesss

[@jack2453]

Very interesting. Where do you dig these things out? This could be why the transport powers-that-be are so irrationally opposed to extending the L4 to Epping. But in traditional fashion the best (but expensive) becomes the enemy of the good (cheap but slow) and we end up with neither.

[@thetrainguy4]

Tram option would be very expensive and possibly slower than the bus.

[@jack2453]

@@thetrainguy4 Obvs a new mega-station at Epping and an underground railway to Parramatta would be preferable - but we all know it is not affordable and at best wouldn't be delivered in less than 20 years. Extending L4 to Epping would be a tiny fraction of the cost. No stations, straight route on an existing wide road, minimal land acquisition, marginal rolling stock purchases.

[@zenmaster24]

what does the ncl mean for granville station? it used to be an express stop, now its relegated to a backwater with large wait times during the day. removing demand on this line would see the service degrade even further i would think, as they would now be able to say the demand isnt there? despite a massive amount of construction in the immediate area

[@thetrainguy4]

Granville is served about every 10-15 minutes on weekdays, even more frequent on weekends. The Leppington T2 trains will no longer run, but I reckon the plan will be to increase T2 Parramatta frequencies to compensate. So it, if anything, means a benefit to Granville.

[@zenmaster24]

@@thetrainguy4 more trains doesnt equal faster though - i want my expresses back! 😅

[@kyletopfer7818]

@@zenmaster24 It does mean faster though - Granville on T2 would have more frequent trains, possibly every 5min in peak, and the T1 would as well so you would be able to have a fast interchange at Strathfield or Lidcombe.

[@zenmaster24]

@@kyletopfer7818 prefer no interchange, how it was before

[@kyletopfer7818]

@@zenmaster24 Fine but in a big city you are going to just have to deal with interchange as everyone else does in big cities around the world. Also that's just Granville, which is currently a major bottleneck on the system and a source of a significant amount of the meltdowns that happen all the time. Granville is also only one stop (and not a super critical one at that I'm afraid to tell you) and you are only looking at trips to the city. You might find they include more Granville stops for T1 than this video assumes, especially if people complain. But it is worth noting that for trips to Parramatta, Epping, Olympic Park, White Bay, Five Dock, the new WSA Airport and many more you would be better off because you will have a frequent connection to Metro West and to the New Cumberland Line enabled.

[@tld8102]

How hard is it to extend the tram?

[@thetrainguy4]

Very expensive and possibly still slower than the bus.

[@jack2453]

Any thoughts on how all this sits with quad-track T9 and high quality T9/metro interchange at N. Strathfield?

[@kyletopfer7818]

Finishing the quad tracking of the T9 is really just better separation of the upper and lower Northern Line services from InterCity trains and freight, probably isn't necessary once you triple-track remaining double-track section from Rhodes to West Ryde and Thornleigh to Hornsby, though obviously the sections that are easy to quad could/should be done for sure. But all trains from the North in future should be stopping at North Strathfield for the fast interchange to the Metro West.

[@thegeographynerd1102]

Is it alright if you comment the sources you used? Curious to have a read myself

[@thetrainguy4]

In the description as always

[@geoffreyhampson3993]

Why does Epping get so much attention. Could it run through Eastwood instead before heading northeast to Macquarie Park, with a station built in the gap between them. Could avoid the difficulties in siting the platforms at Epping, I do like the idea of single deck stock to reduce station dwell time.

[@thetrainguy4]

Perhaps- Epping would be cheaper and would interchange with more main line services than Eastwood. Mac Park wouldn’t solve the space issue, it’d still need to be mined there too.

[@TrainsForNSWVlogs]

Nice

[@soph_the_great_Aus]

If theyre smart the Metro will end at Schofields and Sydney Trains ectend to St Marys from Schofields. This project would be great if it does continue to the airport. Leave the metro as it is and stop trying to get rid of guards. You can run a guard with platform screen doors.

[@thetrainguy4]

Not much point having PSDs, ATO and a guard. There's a reason most metros have done away with them. Keep them on the rest of the network though, for sure!

[@soph_the_great_Aus]

@thetrainguy4 yea but what people don't realise is, if the train overshoots the computers have to try and repostion the train to be within the tolerances of the sensors, I watched it happen at chatswood the other day. Plus if it's running to Leppington or Aerotropolis it'll still need a guard. Same if it's not fixed car sets like waratahs as you'd need someone to be at the rear encase of a derailment or separation of the sets or in a medical emergency. Drivers have already said no to DOO operation anyway, it's easier to not have that fight again.

[@kyletopfer7818]

@@soph_the_great_Aus You could bring the line under the "Sydney Metro" management structure but using suburban trains DOO just like Melbourne does, just hire new staff on agreements as driver-only, which would give you the flexibility to also run freight and diverted regional trains on the infrastructure.

[@soph_the_great_Aus]

@kyletopfer7818 that's illegal, Sydney trains is covered by an EBA so it'd never work, DOO wouldn't work in Sydney let alone nsw. The only people that keep clinging to the idea are liberal party members and foamers that think they know all.

[@AMPProf]

Try no trasport for 100km

[@antontsau]

Everything as usual. Redo Cumberland line as tram and then literally double it up with underground tunnel for gigabucks. At least it should be done thru North Rocks - Northmead, not Dundas along the tram.

[@kyletopfer7818]

It needs an interchange with the tram somewhere though, and the tram line wouldn't have been that useful for NCL because you would want to run via Parramatta and by the time you have surfaced on the Carlingford line you only get a couple of km on the surface and you have to dive into a tunnel again with maximum speeds of 50-60kmh. Too much hassle for not much gain, far easier to just tunnel all the way from Merrylands-Parramatta-North Parramatta-Carlingford interchange-Epping.

[@tangiers365]

Goodvideo

[@AMPProf]

AS AN AMERICAN.. Lol