The new prayers could be a problem for PvP

The Ruinous Prayers Blog can be found here: secure.runescape.com/m=news/a...
Twitter: / kframed
Main Channel: / iskiml0ot

[@corb135]

I like the analytical content, nice to see how some of this stuff affects pvp

[@user-fy9pe1gy4y]

LOL were original Old rune scape (

[@ThePortalDark]

i wonder how hard you will get hit by Venge+Recoil+ Full Dharok with the Amulet of the Damned, which has a 25% chance to recoil 15% of the damage back

[@Turkingtang]

I’m going to find out lol 😊

[@xiqua6417]

If I did the math right if a player hits a 90 in full max, against someone using all of that the recoil effect would do around 136 damage

[@johnbartz1907]

At least a 7

[@OSRS2ndBase]

Like 70

[@TrySomeFentanyl]

The recoil alone from DH would be (Hit x .15) x 1.5.. Then add whatever the damage would be from the venge and recoil.

[@Dman950]

I think they could do three different approaches to try and balance it. 1) Like you said, remove protect item or make it conflict just with the recoil prayer so you are always risking. 2)Reduce recoil down to 25% (or maybe 20%) in PVP scenarios or 3) Put a damage cap on vengeance when combined with this prayer.

[@ethanlachance6639]

In the first iteration the recoil pray did not work on players so i would hope if it gets added that restriction is coming back.

[@michaeltedeschi9929]

This was such a good demonstration. Rebuke is definitely going to be a PvP breaking prayer. Maybe lower the recoil% if used in PvP situations. EDIT TO ADD: glad you mentioned it will be a content machine (although gamebreaking). If it does make it into the game, I can't wait to watch Gompie anti-rush 500 billion

[@GHOST__BRAIN]

i hope the new prayers get added but no rebuke or make rebuke less powerful

[@SamWagnerBeast]

Can’t wait for older school rs in a couple years when this update takes the power creep too far.

[@limey9182]

power creep already through the roof this is no longer 2007 scape this is a private server

[@colemontsandy3424]

They're already taking it too far

[@rubyfunn7889]

would play the hell out of vanilla osrs

[@Outwardpd]

osrs was never made because of power creep it was made because of eoc

[@kylesmith5725]

@@limey9182shit I’m fine with that but don’t make my character look shitty again & all Armor, weapons and make me start WOW “wtf I logged on runescape not wow” 😂

[@goatbogrs1320]

Good work Kev! Well done exposing this madness, hopefully jagex think about it realisticly, something like this would definitely break the game 😂😂

[@nickparsons3194]

I could see Rebuke/Veng/Ring of Suffering being a new meta while sacrificing bones in the wildy if this stays this way

[@ryanpark2049]

Honestly, good.

[@kav7029]

Finally, solo pvp meets the same fate clanning did. This is a PvE game first and foremost lads

[@coolzhowful]

what are you even talking about you fool. this is a pvp game more than anything loool. why do you think they made osrs? cuz u couldn’t pk on eoc. pvp is live and well and always will be nerd

[@Realtoroffloridafl]

Thanks for the video and beta testing it for all of us .

[@MoneyMac18]

I like the commentary/opinions tbh, keep it up.

[@blinkanddie3397]

I wonder if they'll powercreep food items to compensate or make armour give +hp like in RS3

[@sauron55]

Maybe change that to: veng and recoil stay the same but inflects 20-30% of that damage into prayer smite

[@aaronyonny2139]

Thank you for bringing awareness

[@Xzile40]

That poison one. Couldn't you like... Get dragon arrows p++ and spec with a dark bow with them. If you max with a darkbow, a p++ poison tick would hit at the same time, into a thrown axe or something with it. Could be potentially a good pking prayer.

[@uvebeenpked1]

So if you have max gear and they have the new pray magic on you could hit 99 in one ags spec?

[@dakotazigler]

I might actually win some PvP encounters with that prayer. Thats how you know its busted.

[@nakid7]

Lol same

[@jekanikuiani5389]

xD

[@kiptaylor3567]

Well there is that other new prayer which reduces the delay between eating foot and healing HP. So slight attempt to make it balanced. But i could see a new item to raise base HP being implemented if this get approved

[@fordosrs]

100% agree. thanks for bringing awareness to this

[@AIRFGC]

good stuff Framed

[@AlexFromIT]

They could easily just change it to like 10% in pvp like they do with protection prayers. Hopefully they do this because it seems like a really cool prayer to use in pvm

[@bamboozag]

Loving the content man, now do a range only to T10!!

[@anthonyelizalde69]

YEA LOOKS LIKE THINGS ARE JUST GETTING MORE AND MORE MAXED! NEXT THING U KNOW WE WILL HAVE FLYING BOOTS AND LIGHTSABERS! MUCH LOVE FROM YA BOY MR.VIRAL! FROM SAGINAW MICHIGAN 989!

[@nbaez]

Thank you for the content

[@jerryspringracer5555]

I think removing the protect item would also attract more people to pk in rag gear

[@ALLU800]

Absolutely. I think they should just nerf protect item for this book. For example you should have at least a certain % of your prayer left to be able to have it on, which would make smiting more powerful.

[@andymcevoy3109]

What no it just means you can rag with an AGS instead of a dds

[@OSRS2ndBase]

Man I've been waiting for you to finally make a video on this. The Ruinous Powers we have now are basically the result of PvMer + Reddit feedback. The PvP community needs people like you to speak up about things that are straight up terrible for PvP. In the last beta, Intensify used to be an Overhead prayer (called "Gambit") that you could use with the other offensive prayers, and offered 8% additional accuracy to all styles. I think I liked that version a lot more. In PvP, it makes you choose between overhead protection, Smite, and extra accuracy. Apparently they changed it because PvMers didn't want to be "forced" to flick it on to maximize DPS ...

[@PMoneyMillion]

I think the fact that it’s an overhead mitigates some of what you’re taking issue with. Don’t spec someone with the mirror above their head, or if you do, expect the recoil + veng damage to be 50% more. Imo this will make veng fights more interesting. If people don’t want to fight against it, just stipulate no overheads like we always have. E.g., no smite.

[@cosmetica698]

yeah that will definitely work (it wont)

[@sauron55]

Limit the effict of this prayer for ring of recoil only

[@coolzhowful]

@@cosmetica698 pvp has always been about following rules unwritten rules so if the meta becomes no using over heads people will do it

[@cosmetica698]

@@coolzhowful no it has not lmao

[@coolzhowful]

@@cosmetica698 you obviously dont and never have pked if you dont think that. pking is about honour first and foremost thats why the style where u run under eachother and use all protection prayers is literally called NH (no honour) pking. before u could do 130 damage in 1 tick from an array of comboes it was agreed upon people only ate at a certain hp so kills actually happened... so many more examples i could give. whats annoying is osrs players who only pvm always have some shit to say about pking when their only experience is getting shit on when they were trying to do something in the wilderness lmao

[@joshgibbs1830]

I see the rebuke prayer as an anti rushing mechanic, people will probably flick it off when they get a fight

[@carlsonkearley3727]

Rebuke could have some hufe effects in pvm methods for unique accs too

[@connorhurley-winter3006]

Say you rush with dampen melee on, will the rebuke damage buff be affected by the 10% extra damage taken from dampen? If so you could easily recoil over 121

[@munaali1990]

did you try the new ranged prayer with dbows spec? probably can one-hit everyone from distance now even overhealed

[@SlapEUW]

i wonder whether fumus' vow would make venom stack up quicker?

[@TU49858]

Think putting more emphasis on veng timing will give pvp a much needed skil-gap boost

[@Dreamer-qv5cs]

skill gap boosts are good for high end players, and bad for the 90% of casual players. It just ends up killing pvp unfortunately..

[@TU49858]

Maybe. I think if it's more complicated, it will at least be more entertaining to watch, so there's still a plus for lower skilled players. Also improving at a game is what it's about and is the funnest.

[@JKGYHTM]

Good Catch Mr. Kev, easy fix would just be to disable rebuke in PvP

[@farleyecclesgaming4706]

What is the name of the armor used for the 90 max hit setup

[@nervousboy1111]

The mathematical formula for the new vengeance is y=0.75x(1.5), where x is what you hit the opponent. so keep this formula in mind when pking in the near future.

[@adam-lz9jo]

you can just.. y=1.125x

[@brandons.6324]

3:20 They're just staring.... Menacingly!

[@Thanatos1.]

Good I hope it does come in then I could use it and actually do master clue steps in the wildy without issue

[@RotttingCorps]

Test the accuracy prayer with the fang?

[@lewis1423]

so dose fumus vow work with venom? and dose it only only work on the original application? beacuse that seems like an easy way to ramp up venom on people

[@NubcackeRider]

wah wah new stuff hit hard

[@wowyersmart]

It is definitely something that could be problematic. I hope it is balanced carefully

[@doublephisted8631]

I think its fine. Its true spec counterplay. So many people right now just blind speccing with voidwaker...

[@lukeforbes2008]

@@doublephisted8631 it’s like everything tho not just spec that’s the problem my recoil is gonna hit 8’s

[@Trillytex]

thats why they dont get kills.

[@stevensanto5934]

It's really simple for Rebuke, have it up over head for 2-3 seconds before it takes effect. Add that onto the effect and your fear is over.

[@wearblackclothes]

Isn't there a dragon weapon spec that turns off prayer? The d scmmy maybe? Who knows what new meta stuff will come from this

[@drum420]

Rip - old school

[@christophercarrillo4726]

Rs4 here we come

[@GusZiliotto]

what if new prayers didnt have protect item? u can hit higher but u also have to risk

[@andymcevoy3109]

Insta fix

[@kennethbachstein8202]

Would Fumus Vow make a Tent and Abby dagger stack hits with poison?

[@jonnyw8515]

Have that prayer disabled in pvp worlds or lower the reflection percentage in pvp worlds

[@sinbadw00t]

well played kev U DA MAN

[@sidneybakergreen]

Am I the only who remembers being able to hit 99s at the duel arena?

[@t_DriftKing]

I feel like there's counterplay involved and skill because it shows you when the opponent activates rebuke. dont spec if they have rebuke shown above their head and voila

[@Toxile]

Framed, what does rebuke do if you have dharoks + amulet of the damned + suffering + vengeance..?

[@WellDoneOnTheInternetEverybody]

With all this power creep, Do we need blighted food that heals 25 per bite or maybe even blighted (6) dose brews?

[@mithraneere7901]

yo dude please put this on ur main channel itll get good attention that is well needed

[@duckwings4927]

I think Rebuke is just a little problematic, but I don't think it's too bad. Make sure it's disabled in PvP worlds and Bounty Hunter (No overheads). It gives PvMers in the wild a bit more chance agains PvPers.

[@CecilSunkure]

Not a terrible suggestion, but, the issue is on non-PvP worlds (e.g. revs) you get a bunch of PvP players who are on bait accounts. These are accounts that look like PvMers, and generally they are grinding PvM style getting loot. But, the main purpose is to carry anti-pk gear and surprise spec out pkers. It's completely ubiquitous and to the point where new pkers basically don't exist, because the risk to reward ratio for a pker is completely skewed against the risk reward ratio for an anti-pker. Anti-pking would become king, and wilderness pking against pvmers would come to a screeching halt.

[@duckwings4927]

@@CecilSunkure yeah that's also a fair point. Like Kevin shows in the video, you basicly need a veng and a voidwaker hit. So I get the concerns of anti-pking. On the other hand, if I'm doing a wildi slayer task, cause I want to unlock Dagon Hai (e.g.), I don't want those pkers to bother me, so I don't pity any pkers that get anti-d. If they wanna kill players, they have special words for it. But if it's healthy for the game, I'm not sure it is, but I also don't know if it will hurt the game. We'll have to wait and see if they actually make it to the game.

[@TheFlipcyde1]

The recoil buff should have astronomical prayer drain. Would absolutely change PKing, but it would be interesting to see people flick it with veng.

[@Epidombe]

I was thinking that it removes the bonus damage from you in prayer points. But it still means you could risk essentially nothing and be killing people with HUGE risk

[@Epidombe]

Im wondering if it could fit a niche if there was a side effect like: while using recoil your game delay after eating/potting is tripled or you’re unable to eat altogether.

[@xen1401]

if osrs wants to go in this direction tbh i dont see a huge issue with it, but i dont see how its possible unless they uncap the skills from 99. there's only so much stuff u can stuff in a box sized 1-99.

[@Dawsenconway]

What does this prayer look like when a team is stacking on you? I can see the nice play around in multi.

[@lucasparra2585]

Imagine lots of naked accounts with recoils, vengeens and this standing on a pile where a team is barraging...

[@tehpanda64]

IDK man, If I can just venge and have a ring of suffering and like any spec weapon or something I might go do some wilderness content if I feel safe pvm-ing

[@Xhotic]

15 or 20-25% probably wouldn’t be too bad but of course Jagex trying to get things removed before they are even released by making them polled over powered, lovely

[@Uncivil_Dreams]

also, soul split i believe healed ever time you did damage, iirc, and drained prayer that same speed. so that prayer is quite a bit weaker than SS was, so im happy with that tbh. i liked SS a lot when i was younger tbh but i dont think it would be good to bring back in full power

[@epic1053]

For PvP specifically this is way stronger than soul split. For pcm ss is better

[@thelegendarytrim8514]

Its not stronger than ss in pvp lmao u have to defeat opponants to heal. At which point its kinda useless cuz u just gonna go bank n heal after a kill anyway

[@epic1053]

​ I had soul split on release and have had it since in rs3. I also play old school None of what you've said matters when reflect + vegence + special attack with a good weapon like claws, korasi, ags is next to a 100% kill. healing in a fight doesn't matter in pvp because 95% of fights are not determined by who is out of food it's determined by K.Oing someone with a special attack or veng combo. Having losts of healing or food doesn't matter that much when people will just run away/teleport when they are out. Death matches are rare and pointless since alot of people wouldn't honor it anyway.

[@epic1053]

@@thelegendarytrim8514 Healing from soul split has next to no effect on your damage or your k.o potential, which is the most important thing in a fight yes it would make it easier to win a death match however, overhead prayers like protect from meleee would help even more. If you use soul split you can't use protect from melee. If someone was to use soul split and you don't have it you would just put on your protection prayers to even the odds.

[@PerfectAttention]

it should have some drawbacks like it cant bring the enemy below 1 hp,makes you unable to attack for 5 sec and drain all your prayer when you reflect with it only way to make it fair but that would be a long description to write for a prayer i suppose

[@Ahrimas]

Honestly a 10 damage increase over 10 years is incredibly slow power creep for any game. HP being capped at 99 causes the issue.... Now I don't want them to change that, but I also want them to keep adding new content... So idk what the solution is.

[@GarrettStelly]

Is the metabolize prayer not going to be an issue or what?

[@slashosrs]

everyone become gompie

[@VictorVictor-oq6dh]

Like the idea of rebuke canceling out the protect item prayer

[@MicroPoodle]

Good take, thanks

[@arturiter]

It seems like it isn’t taking into account the armor at all? I think that the recoil damage should at least take into account the recoiler’s accuracy and the specer’s armor so you cant just 0 risk smite someone in full torv

[@JK-ex2eo]

I dont even know why they would be adding a new prayer book tbh… gear and weapons are op enough with the current prayer book

[@pleasureduma9693]

I can’t wait to use that recoil prayer no more rushing for anyone lol

[@collinwilliams4135]

The way people safe, this might make pking fun again

[@ddsmax]

THIS IS GAME CHANGING!

[@RaikesyYT]

Anything game breaking for certain aspects of the game Rebuke for example, should be un-usable inside pvp. It makes pvm more intresting for sure but for pvp it seems way too problematic.

[@thisghy8126]

They should make it smite you by 50% of the damage that you reflect. You AGS me an 80, I reflect 40 damage (plus venge), I lose 20 prayer points plus whatever you smite me (33% with new smite), so now I am down almost 60 prayer points. If I kill you then great, if I die it's basically guaranteed I lose my plus one item. High risk high reward.

[@YouTube_account773]

This is great

[@tomandband]

is intensify not gonna be pretty op for mage? :o

[@ACertainGuy0]

This prayer seems pretty busted but this also does mean that you have a meta shifting prayer here. Instead of the game boiling down to "dump spec off pray", if someone throws up that deflect prayer now there is a mind game going on. You might consider wanting to bait out the venge first, take whatever you do from hitting with a normal attack THEN speccing, since venge does have a 30s CD. So you are absolutely correct, it CAN stack you out if you get the read wrong. HOWEVER, if you miss that timing you have a 30s window to go ham on that person. Also fun thought: Dh in the wildy could unironically be a thing here with an amulet of the damned giving ANOTHER source of recoil. Venge + DH + Recoil/Suffering + rolling the 25% chance to deflect the damage you took making it even easier to get stacked out by a bad spec timing lol. and that isnt considering that if you didnt kill the DH player they are now a low hp DH and we know where that goes lmao.

[@GuitarGuyRy]

Why do i hear dragonroost island wind waker?

[@WhydYouChangeMyHandle]

Get ready for iron dagger p++ with that poison prayer, fellas hittin 6’s every other tick

[@WhydYouChangeMyHandle]

iron knife*

[@treehugger30]

I believe they’ll have to add the RS3 HP boost from bonfires (probably added through Forestry) in order for PvP to survive

[@swest3731]

Sounds like rebuke will keep me alive in the wildly :)

[@TheLegendArtorias]

Just got done watching Solomission’s video on this and that was exactly the same though I had, rebuke will be busted in the right scenarios

[@simonbridgman9948]

State of pvp is every fight is currently a rush fight to who can korasi a 78 first… adding this will just mean they can 1 hit you from a higher up

[@TakeHimNotMe]

I would assume this needs to stay to prevent rushers. If it were to be utilized in a pvp aspect its a saving grace and used professionally otherwise it'll prevent getting rushed. 😊

[@twistedbeau3333]

Lol stop you pixie stick

[@samisuhonen9815]

Okay so you hit a 90 with the extreme best gear, and the high risk prayer book that also makes you take 10% more damage. So to squeeze out the new max hit, you got to increase the max hit of others even more. like sure, you might be able to get that max hit and just 100->0 someone. And you might gain a few million gp every time. But you are risking hundreds of millions of gp with this gear. And you are increasing the risk of being deleted by taking 10% more damage any time you pray wrong. You are also not getting defense bonuses from the new non-overhead prayers. The defense bonuses you used to get from piety etc. These are glass cannon prayers. However, the new reflect damage prayer? It needs a PvP specific nerf to keep it from being completely insane. From 50% increase, it should go down to 25% at most, or even 10%. It would still increase the skill ceiling for vengeance stacks, but not completely break the game.

[@seriousspikesam7770]

One option could have been to add a time frame/requirement for the Rebuke. Aka it needing to be on for a certain amount of time for it to have an effect or that it would have a "cooldown" between uses. But alas, let's scrap everything and delay DT 2... again.

[@showtimekid7749]

Can’t you just reflect the damage back by using the prayer also?

[@KillerWhaleFanatic]

I think an easy fix would be to cap the additional damage. 50% extra damage for hits up to 40 for example.

[@100based9]

That or make it a different amount in pvp scenarios like 10%

[@Bull625]

Are you a fan of zelda? Been hearing it in the background of the vid. Nice choice

[@Jake-vg7mw]

Could just halve rebuke damage when used in pvp or even disable it in pvp, as it's really cool for pvm

[@BigKidBigDreams]

That rebuke is gonna change anti rushing for sure!

[@pimpslapish]

What year did osrs come out? Was it 2007? Or was 2007 pre eoc???

[@thecat2547]

2013 remake of 2007

[@firthy17]

Although i agree it's busted... it is an overhead and will cause extra thinking and timing both to attacker and defender (making sure they're not venged or breaking the veng with something weak) Kinda equals out the power creep too? haha Obviously better without this prayer being like that but I think it could make fights more of a chess battle

[@bacon6118]

I love you Kevin!

[@JereL8]

Wondering why u dont make this video on your main youtube account... very few know that u have this second account

[@SPOOKYM4]

which world is that?

[@LivingstonTexasDreams]

This is savage

[@sambo7375]

NAH CHAD MIRROR. i love this ability especially in defense of rushers in pvp making them think twice as well as for clans who world hop onto unsuspecting wilderness caves runners. spamming teleblock or roots/freezes as they swap through every attack style in the game. instead of trying to match their comb style with a overhead prayer you insert CHAD MIRROR

[@Peja03Dardania]

To OP