the new Victoria's Secret Show was weird

[@ViolaVines]

The plainness of their show shows they don’t actually believe that “anyone can be the fantasy” because as they went more inclusive they stripped the wings and opulence. I’m just not buying a true understanding or change.

[@joannamarieart]

This is exactly what I'm getting from this as well. VS as a company still very much holds to the 'fantasy' as being a very specific kind of woman, because being inclusive means there is no more fantasy.

[@mpazinambao2938]

Well said.

[@vaishuc518]

That's kinda sad but who cares buying VS still isnt worth it

[@mattg6106]

Yeah, it definitely feels like they just missed the whole point of 'sexy' not being exclusive to a certain demographic. To me this comes off as the VS marketing team over-correcting to 'not sexualize women' when all people wanted was more representation because 'sexy' isn't exclusive to a body types or skin color.

[@lordchaa1598]

Well said. I felt like they purposefully made it bland and blah to show how dissatisfied they are with having to actually change and make a product that fit all woman. This was their subtle way of saying FU to body inclusivity.

[@JOman04]

Victoria Secret expanding the plus size lingerie market by offering black, white, buff, and now pink! Truly innovative.

[@phelinmelon1007]

It’s incredibly frustrating that so many companies convey the message you have to sacrifice fashion for inclusion (‘:

[@_decaysea]

And they still have an INCREDIBLY limited sizing system! 🙃

[@Karan-Aujla]

@@_decayseacorporations wanna make money, stocking sizes for the morbidly obese will not make them money. Also an odd reflection for society that were tryna accommodate the morbidly obese

[@creatrixZBD]

Same shades as Kim Kardashians skims basics. Seems like a pretty normal place to start, really. Business is a risk, nobody’s going to sink the whole farm on a new strategy all at once 🤷🏽‍♀️ In some ways women seem to feel entitled to perpetually complain.

[@drewjay8940]

​@@creatrixZBDI think I understand where you're coming from -- this is new for them, so there's only so much they can do at one time. They cannot rerelease every single item with an expanded size range all at once. But they still have countless designs and color options, and for them to release something extremely limited was an intentional choice (even if they only sized up a few patterns -- I just went on their site and found one pair of panties available in 17 colors. You're really telling me the best they can manage is 3, maybe 4?) Especially when we all know there is a considerable plus sized market.

[@JW-cvnt]

regardless of how you feel about doja cat, “the straps…split me like a block of sharp cheddar cheese…a bitch never thought she could get manhandled by a piece of fabric…took me under the bleachers and ransacked my shit” has got to be the best possible way to describe wearing an uncomfy outfit ever omfg i laughed for a straight minute dude.

[@vbrown6445]

The fact that they made a slip dress that uncomfortable is shocking and impressive. A slip dress should be as comfortable as walking around in your pjs.

[@camelliaharpdarkthrope6462]

I can't really find it funny considering the allegations of her dating a predator

[@nikolasscheeks]

she’s fucking hilarious god i wish she was likeable

[@nikolasscheeks]

@@camelliaharpdarkthrope6462she’s awful for that absolutely fuck her forever. but what she said was funny as shit hahahaha

[@bubbles4897]

@@camelliaharpdarkthrope6462so stupid lol she can still be funny

[@quantafreeze]

I wonder if it's deliberate. They can say, "Well we GAVE you body diversity and it flopped. We can't do that again."

[@bimmons9975]

👀🤔

[@ecb3828]

O M G?!?!!!!!

[@gardenvariety1]

wait a second……

[@solarmidnights]

you're so right like. trying to prove a point that diversity can only be boring and make the audience long for the "old, golden days"

[@kennyb1588]

The thing is the brand was flopping by the time they had their last fashion show because the quality of the clothing dropped but the prices didn’t

[@TuberoseKisser]

I only care about the wings/angels and stuff at the shows I don't actually care about anything else. I just liked the fantastical design of those stuff.

[@sumlem]

What are aspects that you don't care about?

[@hommefataltaemin]

@@sumlemthey just said? They said they only care about the wings/angels and stuff like that, and not everything else.

[@CARATMom]

I remember that Tim Gunn from the original Project Runway constantly insisted that designers should be able to dress bigger bodies and every year the young designers would make tents for the real body challenge. It was if regular bodies were kryptonite to some designers. It is sad that when VS was asked to be more inclusive they heard make more tents.

[@joannamarieart]

Absolutely. So many of the designers had no idea how to create clothing for a body that doesn't look like a size 0 mannequin. Absolutely insane, honestly.

[@Zaftique]

Praise Christian Siriano, honestly - he understood the assignment and continues to do so!

[@5050TM]

I remember that. They almost always whined and threw fits. He was ahead of his time when it comes to fashion.

[@Smidgeon-pigeon]

​@@ZaftiqueI wonder if that's why he became so commercially successful

[@Zaftique]

@@Smidgeon-pigeon I wouldn't be surprised! I remember when Leslie Jones was turned away from several fashion houses and he's like, "here you go!" and she looked *amazing* for the Ghostbusters premiere - why anyone would turn away business is beyond me.

[@becpennington7470]

It smacks of weaponized incompetence. They've been told that the gross emphasis on the male gaze at the expense of the people actually wearing the garments is not welcome in modern society, and it seems like they are pouting and acting like what is being requested is just not possible. I don't think they're actually incompetent; I think it's the equivalent of a toddler dropping limp to the floor because they've been told no.

[@HM-cq2rv]

Which is so damn weird cause they’re the only ones who will lose money lol. the fact that people love the brand so much that they will forgive all the horrible stuff the company did in the past including the ceo being buddies with EPSTEIN is a miracle. For them to still fumble so bad is so dumb on their part

[@r-pupz7032]

Yep completely agree. In their view, fantasy/opulence is reserved for women who embody the stereotypical male fantasy archetype, and feeling sexy isn't something women want to do for themselves rather than just for a man to admire. This felt so passive-agressive and deliberately lackluster. If they want to be the brand who caters for men who like skinny women and cleavage, just fucking own that. I'll still dislike them as I think that's boring and re-enforcing dated ideas about women and sexuality, but I would kinda respect it. This was just insulting, honestly.

[@GearZNet]

Sexiness is dated... isn't it? 😂LMAO@@r-pupz7032

[@calathea81]

@@r-pupz7032not to mention the concept of fantasy is such fertile ground to make into art and fashion. Fantasy is a way for people to explore things that are taboo, or magical, or impossible. To narrow it down to “fantasy = being skinny and hot” is a huge missed opportunity.

[@samanthamakesasmr]

The problem with VS is that they have always been a company marketing towards men, and I genuinely don’t think that they know how to frame a show from a woman’s point of view so they just did nothing

[@joannamarieart]

Absolutely. And really feels like the "fantasy" of early 2000s VS angel is still very much the standard among VS corporate - they either don't know how or can't fathom including other body types into that fantasy.

[@HM-cq2rv]

Except a majority of their fans were women and girls. So why not take their critiques (please add atleast a lil more diversity) and keep what the female fans liked (the ethereal hyper feminine angel aesthetic). It’s sooo dumb

[@xtuffcookiex]

They pride on the male gaze. So when you have women wanting something they get upset. ( it seems )

[@cutforcuties]

They could have done a whole show with Greek goddess theme for the curvy girls, they could have done a collab with barbie since their recent movie had inclusive elements. Like honestly….. it just screams that VS don’t care and actually hate women

[@mecha5409]

Absolute insanity when you think of how popular the Fenty shows were

[@POMrox1]

That part where Doja was talking about how much she hated that damn dress is so funny 😂😂😂

[@JayJay-17]

I remember when I first read it I died laughing and it’s still funny even with a reread 🤣🤣

[@jaseyrae7943]

Okay but when I saw that dress on insta I was also hating. Doja always serves and this just seemed like a missed opportunity :/

[@1818Pancakes]

I heard they were doing a show… I had no idea they didn’t do a runway?!? Why go through all that effort organizing an event during nyfw and not do a runway? Also yeah their inclusivity sucks. I have a hard time finding about a 38 band in stores 😬

[@NANA-su5ql]

Fr, trying to find a 28 band size is like trying to find real gold in a Claire’s

[@crystalcastillo7575]

I think it was so sus that they got rid of angels and made the ambassadors wear boring plain panties. It’s always as if they’re saying normal women aren’t good enough for the “angel status”

[@gracelament]

One comparison is the new Victoria Secret show vs the Selkie show for fashion week. The Selkie show had diverse models (which isn't new for the brand) but the over the top aesthetics sell that anyone can be apart of the fantasy

[@LaRocheSews]

The selkie show was gorgeous!! (Edit: spelling)

[@whimsical_bitches_club]

this whole video i kept thinking about the selkie show & how good it was!!

[@LaikasFriend]

i'd never heard of that brand but damn their stuff looks amazing

[@kildareire]

VS used to be high quality. Stitching replaced by adhesive 10-15 years ago. No longer the gold standard in lingerie. Cost cutting cut their customer base. I didn’t buy for the models. I bought for the high quality.

[@dismurrart6648]

Tbh the bras have never been supportive but yeah they used to sew things

[@Segphalt]

Odds are good that when they saw cheap trash flying off the shelves at other stores while their sales were faltering they made the market driven decision of "apparently everyone wants cheap trash, we can make cheap trash too!"

[@kelpy_0]

THIS IS WHY I STOPPED BUYING FROM THEM!!! literally I have bras that last 5+ years from them: but their new stuff is CHEAP. It used to be a good investment to get a VS bra. But not anymore.

[@Just-A-Girl-77]

I thought it was just me! They used to make the only bra I liked and made me look good (I'm a lil lopsided) The last bra I bought there now digs into my back. I thought maybe it was the clasp was defective. So after returning the next one was the same. I guess it's because it's not sewn and is now glued on. Seriously a bad choice

[@issecret1]

Gold standard? Please

[@Zxgrhexbj]

You look extra pretty in this video. The jewelry and your blouse color compliment your skin tone nicely.

[@stephanietucker1805]

Brands that 'pivot' to inclusive sizing and then lose the unique look, bring out the plain basics, do it on purpose. They don't want to be inclusive. They'll use the dropping sales numbers to prove that larger sizes don't sell, to prove inclusive modeling doesn't sell. We can get no-frills, nothing special items at target for a fraction of the price, and they know it. They give it six months to a year and come out with a "return to their values/roots/beginnings" and spin it as being authentic, and just swap back to status quo.

[@CyclingUrchin]

this!!!

[@Trollificusv2]

So. WHAT? You didn't get what you wanted?? Well just Karen out until you get everything you want everywhere and nobody else gets what they want. Don't like it? Don't patronize their business. Or is that too complicated?

[@kittykatz4001]

I don’t get why this was VS responsibility in the first place? What is keeping someone from making lines of sexy lingerie for fat or obese women and holding fashion shows with fat and obese models? Who is preventing someone from doing that? I don’t get why VS needed to take on that responsibility. 😮 -signed, a fat woman.

[@heartofstars13]

@@kittykatz4001 Beyond the "pick me" energy of this post (I hope you examine why it is you feel the need to belittle your fellow peers like myself for asking to have our--your--sizes available) I am baffled as to why you can't understand the need for inclusion and diversity in the fashion industry. VS, for a lot of women, is THE name for all things lingerie and undergarments, and to be excluded simply because of your size to the point where you can't find anything that fits in stores or even online (and online-only plus sizes is basically segregation, mind you) is literally discrimination based on your body. Why would you not support a movement that only seeks to include more people so we can all feel beautiful in our skin??? Signed, a fat woman sick to death of rarely fitting anything in stores.

[@Oatmaster]

We still want it hot, just also inclusive. It is so lazy to be like “it’s inclusive but we didn’t put any effort into making it sexy.” Like they missed the point. 😂

[@kittykatz4001]

That is why somebody needs to start a plus sized lingerie line instead of VS attempting to do it. The VS audience didn’t want to see those fat models, apparently. Someone should probably start a line of stuff for large women. I am overweight, but it’s unlikely I would buy lingerie. I do not get why someone hasn’t started a line of lingerie for the big chicks.

[@kittykatz4001]

For the ppl who like either attending or following the VS fashion show: do you really think those are the folks who want to see plus sized women in lingerie though? The ppl who want to see plus models in skimpy lingerie may not be the same crowd as the VS audience though or the same crowd who wants to see Megan Raponi in underwear, or wants to see amputees in lingerie. Seems as if the attempt is for VS to swap out their existing audience or customer base.

[@rn2787]

Doja is giving controversy and I am here for it. As a big chested woman I have always hated VS (DDD by 12 years old). Now they want to give a half-assed attempt at giving women that have bigger chests or waistlines the opportunity to overpay for sad and pathetic Garments. I will stick to Torrid and Lane Bryant because they may be money grubbing assholes, but at least they always thought that I should be able to put clothes on.

[@lefton4ya]

I was hoping Amanda would review this in Victoria’s Secrets underwear over a Spider-man costume

[@nuggetdoja871]

Lmao

[@karriqueen]

lol she should have for old time sake 😁

[@mmonkeyman1403]

The VS Fashion show is literally a marketing event and nothing more. "Real" fashion shows tend to have a goal in mind which is to book orders for that season's runway looks to boutiques and retail buyers, hopefully drawing some headlines and notoriety through the legacy trade publications, blogs, and new-generation of content creators.

[@neonxvices]

you just explained something to me that i didn't even know i didn't understand

[@iwannaseethereceipts]

Yeah I think Doja's dress was a contractual obligation and her review was the tell lmao. You could tell on her face in the photos that she hated it

[@lelalu101]

I need to know what deranged human built in a panty!!! Into the dress. Not shorts, not a slip, a freaking panty. It sounds like it was a th0ng style as well I'm aghast

[@DominiqueSBG]

Absolutely.

[@who__cares__]

It's too bad she doesn't hate the fact she's dating a groomer and harassed+blocked his victims

[@koolaidjanners]

@@who__cares__that’s exactly why it rubbed me the wrong way the way she was talking about the way the dress made her feel. “Manhandled me, took me under the bleachers and-” etc etc like girl.

[@bellamcfaul8259]

⁠@Alejandro-gk9jwwhat are you even talking about?? who’s defending doja cat?💀

[@29jgirl92]

I mean, the fact that they stopped doing the regular shows when people started asking for more inclusivity seemed kinda petulant and childish. "Oh, you want us to put fat people on the runway??? Well how about we don't do the shows anymore at all, see what you've done." Like no one asked for a complete rebrand, we just wanted to see a few plus sized girl getting to wear the iconic wings!

[@xtuffcookiex]

Sadly their “ fat “ is size 4 + and anyone under 5’10

[@Heckinwhatonearth]

​@@xtuffcookiexim 6', weigh 150 to 160. I only fit a us size 6. So im plus size, huh.

[@Matty442]

​@@Heckinwhatonearththeir point is VS standard of what is 'fat' is ridiculous

[@vlo4829]

@@Matty442 The size of Americans is ridiculous, though. Most Americans ARE obese. We really need to rid the FDA of people connected to the food industries and get rid of corporate money in the government so that our regulators are actually assessing food quality and its affects on people rather than working hard to obfiscate facts and data so that corporations can continue making people unhealthy with FDA approval...

[@bellamcfaul8259]

⁠@@vlo4829Only 42% of the US population is considered obese, not “most.” And a lot of it has to do with food deserts and poverty. The FDA does need to introduce more regulations on food and cosmetics, without a doubt, but saying that most of the American public is obese is misinformation. It’s a much more complicated issue than just ‘the FDA is making everyone fat’

[@manic_girl]

Savage X Fenty isn’t perfect but the one thing you can say is that the models felt sexy. They didn’t make marginalized groups feel like they couldn’t wear what regular models wear. If everyone can be an angel, give them the same sexy lingerie you give Kendall Jenner.

[@sczzlbtt]

Why do marginalized groups seriously need external validation in order to wear what a model wears? You must think they're too feeble minded to do things of their own volition. How noble of you to care so much about people you clearly believe are below you

[@brat3658]

@@sczzlbttwhat are you even talking about??

[@Ram875]

@@brat3658 From his/her failed grammar, I'm getting that, not sure why people have this constant need to be represented everywhere in all media, I am also tired, so if the character in front of me doesn't look exactly like me I will not feel seen or validated? That's just as sczzlbtt being feeble minded, and that's sad.

[@manic_girl]

@@sczzlbtt they’re not below me, and I don’t believe that? Everyone deserves to feel sexy. Me included, considering I’m not the supermodel standard size 0-2. I’m speaking from personal experience that seeing models wearing lingerie in my size helped me feel comfortable wearing it.

[@undergroundsoul94]

Very weird that after millions of dollars of consumer research they landed on...fantasy for no one! Especially after Fenty, which had magical, ethereal sets and stunning styling for women of all types. The idea that fantasy is only for a certain type of beauty (which itself was a fantasy, since some supermodels are very open about how eating disorders, surgery, and drugs help them keep their weight down and limbs skinny) is exactly the opposite of what people were asking for.

[@nunyabusiness164]

The fact that they decided to make it boring bc people asked for diversity feels soooo petty to me. Just do the SAME SHIT with more diverse models!!! It's not that hard!

[@lostandfond2163]

You said it! 👏

[@corduroy799]

It feels like brands believe that cuntyness (meaning glamour, sexyness, camp, FUN, etc.) and inclusivity repel each other. Like when they're called to be inclusive, brands pivot to all these neutral colors and like people hugging each other n shit. And a neutral or a "self love" vibe could be good in the right moment but when you have a brand (like Victoria Secret) known for glamour and excessiveness do this, it just feels extra off. It really does seem to imply that they don't believe trans people or fat people or like people of color can exist in their vision. That they can't view these types of people as being sexy or fun or fierce; the most they can do is accept themselves. It lacks imagination and also just shows how much they (not necessarily the company but the people maybe in charge of this show) have been impacted by beauty standards and perpetuate them with their work. And they're trying ofc but no one seems to be trying anything *new*. I just think fat people, queer people, and people of color can be cunty and deserve to feel sexy and desirable if they wish. Inclusivity can be sexy too idk

[@cassinipanini]

its so disappointing too because so many of the folks who invented that "cuntyness" style are incredibly size and shape diverse. 80s NY vogue, drag queens, its a style built largely by POC and for VS to take it and strip basically everything interesting out of it is just sad.

[@OminousZombie]

It's the sad truth

[@Lhene9]

Does "cuntyness" have a different meaning in another part of the internet? It means "asshole/jerk behaviour" for me.

[@gardenvariety1]

To me it comes across as VS saying “oh you want to see plus size people in lingerie? sure but they’re still aren’t sexy enough for the runway”. all people wanted to see was a diverse set of bodies in fun wings and glamorous lingerie!! true inclusivity is showing that all women can feel sexy no matter their body type

[@toaster4693]

Being fit and healthy is attractive.

[@gardenvariety1]

@@toaster4693 i don’t care what a man has to say about VS they don’t make clothes for you so your opinion doesn’t matter i fear 💔

[@AllStarrKo]

@@gardenvariety1 as a women i have to agree with him on this one

[@gardenvariety1]

@@AllStarrKo then don’t watch it’s that easy

[@HM-cq2rv]

@@toaster4693you can have fit and healthy models still though. You can be athletic and have a curvy body type. I don’t think people are saying that all the models have to have excessive body fat, but just different shapes of athletic women is what people want imo. The original models weren’t healthy because they would have to starve and dehydrate themselves leading up to the shows

[@kkilljoy3588]

It feels like they don’t believe different body types ARE beautiful unless they can control the angles and lighting and potentially photoshop those bodies. Like they didn’t want to show different bodies in person so they chose to show no bodies at all. And that isn’t sitting right with me.

[@LISA75_]

GENUINELY THINK that Amanda should get a side job as an event planner/consultant , she seems to have a better idea of how these events should be run /staged that the people who do organize them .

[@JohnUnit]

victorias secret is one of the kings (queens?) of branding over quality and design

[@danwichgames]

all that people like my wife want is shit that fits and for it to actually be in stores. putting your plus size stuff online only or putting limited pieces in a shipment is not inclusion, its segregation.

[@dismurrart6648]

Im hoping gaps(?) Initiative to have plus in stores pays off. If it doesnt, we probably wont get comprehensive change in the industry.

[@alexialira3839]

Calm down sjw, lol. Things in general are now mostly found/sold online. After the whole govt lockdown thing, I now find that things I could get in store now say "online only." So, stop crying "segregation" about your wife not being able to find big underwear. What a slap in the face to MLK. Your wife's boyfriend isn't going to like this.

[@bubbles4897]

You using the term “segregation” for this is truly WILD. I bet your ass is white too.

[@kittykatz4001]

There are a lot of companies that sell via catalogs, brick and mortar stores, and via online as well, do not have everything that they offer in the brick and mortar storefronts. This has been the case for years before the internet when companies like LL. Bean (as one example) sold via catalogs and storefronts (before the internet) never had everything. It’s also the case with bookseller like Barnes and Noble: they do not have “everything” in the stores on the shelves. Many times I had go to the desk and ask the staff to send a book from the warehouse. The BN store was for use of shelf space for high-demand things that will move quickly, but customers could still go to the service desk and have a title not found on the shelf to be sent to the store and when it arrives, I pick it up.

[@danwichgames]

@@kittykatz4001 except numbers show that there is more demand for the plus sizes that they do not stock. they stock the size cloth of the people they want to be seen shopping at their stores not the people that actually desire their clothes. stores like target have seen measurable increase in sales when they started stocking more plus size cloth. In fact none of the companies that had opted to do so have reported losses. Frankly the book comparison carries no water. The demand is not the issue, the stigma is. You can't not stock plus size clothes, than turn around and say "well our past sales show that they don't sell". that is a false equivalency

[@peachxtaehyung]

What i like is that now victorias secret i believe has a show with disabled people able to model their clothes! I love it. My friend steffi was a model this year and she posted her "walk" (roll) video going down the runway and she got a TON of hate comments too when she did saying that this isnt a fashion show for people like her, that its not a runway anymore etc 😭 it made me so angry cuz steffi is an amazing woman and is so sweet. But even if she wasnt she dont deserve that crap.. i was happy thinking the fact i would've never thought this would happen anytime soon so i was happy it did, but now i am so sad and angry especially since I'm a fellow disabled woman

[@iversiafanatic]

That’s such bs that your friend got so much hate. Have those commenters never seen project runway?!!? They had an episode AGES ago where the winning look of one episode was this beautiful gown+train for this woman in a wheelchair… absolute clown shit

[@monicamesecar9126]

I was going to mention this too!! I saw that Bri Scalisse (sp?) a model who is also a wheelchair-user participated. As a wheelchair user myself, I’m curious about their new adaptive line.

[@softwaifu]

So weird how people who have no investment in fashion or runway shows or modeling all of a sudden come out of the woodwork to "defend the integrity of the art" or some shit. Like stfu brad you can't even name 3 designers!!

[@kathleenburnard]

I would be much more excited about a Victoria’s Secret show for an adaptable line, featuring disabled models, if it were an actual Victoria’s Secret show. Not a VS-through-Runway-Of-Dreams-along-with-a-bunch-of-other-major-brands show. Like, the Runway of Dreams show is extremely important and needs to happen. But I’m so, so tired of giving major brands credit for hiding their adaptive pieces and disabled models in disability-only shows that don’t even have their branding on the runway or event photos. There is nothing stopping them from doing both. Especially if they’re trying to make a point about their brand being new and improved, with an emphasis on diversity.

[@peachxtaehyung]

@@kathleenburnard true. I agree, I wish it was actually just through VS. I mean I guess it's good that they partnered with runway of dreams where it was done correctly but idk...

[@parker.projects]

1. Your assessment on how they could better run this event is brilliant! How has VS been in this space for so long and they still don't get it or know how to properly build hype for an event that is quite literally about half naked conventionally attractive people.... 2. Your nails and this green top are stunning! Clean, chic, I love it! Can't even see most of the top and it's giving me a lewk already! 👏🏿❤

[@RestlessChildcz]

Ok but can we appreciate how, if you will, *swell* Amanda looks today? Such a great look with the makeup, outfit and mani!!!

[@bignonoIamAgirl]

Same LOVE the outfit!

[@advancedalice]

i was literally thinking "i hope swell posts soon" like 5 minutes ago i love manifesting

[@tonynochill]

Straight up same and I was still 40 minutes late

[@LiLiSmi04]

I knew VS was gonna drop the ball decades ago. When people complained about the lack of larger sizes they made another brand called Lane Bryant. Which is practically a maternity/50yrs+ lingerie line. I like to call this PR fix the “Here! DAMN! 🙄”

[@HM-cq2rv]

Very true, even the name Lane Bryant sounds like it’s marketed to senior women

[@uniquenewyork3325]

They didn't even try giving it a classy stripper name like 'Victoria Secret~' they just said 'Lane Bryant.'

[@vintagelover2211]

Lane Bryant also sells clothes and now is an active competitor with Torrid. It does skew older but Torrid is more fun and playful especially w lingerie.

[@penguinsrbirds2]

When I do a quick Google search though I didn't see anything about Lane Bryant being created by or really connected to VS, though? Wiki says it was started in 1904.

[@LiLiSmi04]

@@penguinsrbirds2 Leslie Wexner was the founder of L brand which owned companies like Victoria Secret and Abercrombie & Fitch + more. Victoria Secret had a spin off brand (Lane Bryant) which included their plus size section. There’s a real interesting doc I believe on Hulu about Leslie Wexner which broke all these things down for me. Trigger warning Leslie is an interesting person because he has suspicious ties to Jeffery Epstein.

[@jennatavares4695]

VS has never been inclusive. Not even to thin women with large boobs. I'm not even that plus sized but I'd have a HELL of a time finding just a 40C in store. And I never felt comfortable getting fitted because all the girls in the store were smaller than me. Because how can a person who doesn't deal with my types of bra problems really understand what it is I need? And once I became a mom it got even worse because they sold almost nothing I could use. Like how hard is it to sell bras that front close? Not to mention how unbelievably expensive everything is. I've literally never been able to afford a VS bra. I've bought underwear there during the 7 for $28 sale, but that's all I could afford. Of course VS is "the fantasy" because most of us take a financial hit if we buy bras and panties and lingerie there. And the panties I've bought there don't even hold up as well as all my other ones. I've had underwear from Sears for over 10 years that are still decent, but I've had to throw out a good chunk of my VS ones that I had for maybe half that time. They're pretty, but the lace can be itchy and regularly get holes and stuff for no reason. They sell worse and worse stuff for the same or more than before, but expect us to shill out money because of the name and "the fantasy"

[@Cashhhhew]

Their campaign is so messy! I am all for inclusion (though it’s obviously just for a cash grab for them). But the images of the plus sized models are so weird! Half of them are in clothes that don’t even fit, the editing is insane, one has tags hanging out and the straps are all fxcked. What are they trying to do/say with that? Lol

[@Tina-fj4xo]

Are these photos on the VS website or Insta?

[@ERYN__]

Ooh! I'd actually love a "road test" of underwear, on a variety of bodies. Not specifically just their underwear because, objectifying, but to actually show "this is how this garment performs with real life movements, under jeans, leggings, dresses, etc." "This strap stays put without fashion tape"

[@EdenYell]

Models in a select few looks from each collection BUT also a robe that they cover the looks in to give you flirty sneaks at it. like one girl only flashes a bra cup, another flashes a little underwear. All flirty and not letting you see the whole thing, getting you hyped up for the movie

[@JayJay-17]

As someone who grew up watching the show and may have gotten body image issues from it 😅 and felt savage x fenty was more of a performance show rather that a runway show, I just wanted the vs as it usually is with more inclusive bodies/people. I love the vibrant colors, the models having fun walking down the stage, the fabulous outfits and themed sections with amazing sets. People don’t mention this but the VS shows have really great music whether it’s a single song for a section or a mashup, I have some videos saved just cause I love the music.

[@erinbird1228]

Ugh. The issue wasnt the shows. It was the representation. In a time of wearing lingerie as clothing and maximallism, they missed the mark so so so badly.

[@vivalanina]

VS has/had the most fun prints and variety, I'd love going into their store around Christmas time because that's when all the glitter, foils, rhinestones would come out for their fashion show. I hope they don't go out of business because imo they still have the cutest stuff in the game without being over $100 for a bra. Trying to get any style in undergarments nowadays are either boring grandma, or premium lingerie brands.

[@kikokikokiiiii]

The taking the phones Idea is genius and they could have a beautifully built cubby system and say to lock your phones behind the gates of heaven

[@maddiedoesntkno]

You gotta give that shi up to enter heaven bby

[@parker.projects]

@@maddiedoesntkno - You came up with a better campaign slogan in seconds, while an entire Marketing/Event Planning team dropped the ball with months of planning 😂🤣🙌🏾

[@maddiedoesntkno]

@@parker.projects thanks😘

[@MoochieMary]

You can tell they didnt have someone leading the concept and production that was concerned with spectical. Events need to be something that surprise the attendees, have people left thinking "i cant believe I missed that" "I wish I was there"

[@emilydennie2712]

Amanda - that no phones idea is fantastic… like the amount of just hype would be amazing. And like you said there would be full breakdowns and people would want to share cause that’s all they could share. 100/10 marketing strategy

[@valeriarossini543]

the no-phone idea is SO good, as a marketing major I'm taking notes lol

[@erikdaniels0n]

When the most interesting thing to come out of your show is Doja Cat talking about how uncomfortable the dress you gave her was (in typical unfiltered Doja Cat fashion), you’ve failed on a fundamental level

[@miraino15]

I think what companies and people don’t understand is what online commerce has done to the market. I want to know what clothes will look like on me and the companies that are doing that’s are the ones I will buy from because I don’t feel that sadness after trying it on. My expectations are properly placed. Even in person shopping is in need of a more personalized touch. I did grow up with a mom that had the skills to make me custom clothes to save money and that is hard to beat, but the companies addressing those needs are the next best thing.

[@ramblingsofadyingsoul7411]

I am the exact opposite of most when it comes to content I watch. I'm way more likely to watch a video 20 minutes or longer than one that is 5 minutes long and that in a round about way is me saying I really like your channel, lol

[@nuggetdoja871]

Exactly! The longer the content the better. I like videos that are hours long. The shorter they are, just means the sooner I have to look for something else to watch, which is annoying.

[@ramblingsofadyingsoul7411]

yes!!!!@@nuggetdoja871

[@Aliiii831]

Agreed

[@joannamarieart]

I agree 🤣🤣 Commentary vid that's 20 mins?? eh, probably gonna pass. Commentary on a tv series I've never watched or plan to watch that's 7 hours long? Sign me up!!

[@nuggetdoja871]

@@joannamarieart Yess I've never seen Jersey Shore before, but thanks to Mila Tequila, I feel like I have seen the whole series 😂

[@kayladavidson2518]

excited to watch this one!! vs has such bad sizing still and it sucks that there are no major stores with a broader sizing range that are not exclusively online and exorbitantly expensive :/ especially now that women are beginning to understand sizing better for themselves!!

[@lychie__]

What baffles me is that VS seems to misunderstood what people are asking from them. They think that not only do they have to be inclusive, but also stripped away that creative identity that they had. I actually watched all the teasers for this event and can I just say how underwhelming it was (just from those short glimpse alone). VS could have taken the opportunity on the whole y2k concept and just do a runway. Like hell, isn't that what they are all about? They don't have to be boring. If anything, it kinda feels insulting that their mentality is being inclusive = neutral (which in a way, puts a bland/ordinary feeling). A runway where they allowed it to be camp and sexy while still being inclusive could have been a great way for them to redeem the admiration and popularity that they used to have.

[@marismm6405]

It's quite simple to understand, VS catered to people who were not their audience and they both missed their old audience and the ones they thought they would get.

[@harlowblackadder356]

I miss old Victoria's Secret. It was a little expensive, but those bras and undies were gorgeous, fit perfectly and lasted years. I'm not mad at aspirational looks. Am I the only one???

[@FrickingTaylor]

Thank you for having subtitles on your videos Amanda, it's really appreciated 🥹

[@PancakeLottie]

They could've done the models wearing big blacked out pieces of cardboard with a "?" Or the air date as a mini runway while the clip played. That would drum up interest. Extra points if a little piece of the garment flares out of the box a little on the turn. Then show four, have the models drop the boxes then play the damn movie.

[@dearanathema]

14:31 I will say that in regards to the making "sexy" bras for bigger chests-I got a breast reduction last year and while it has been absolutely fantastic comfort wise, I do want to point out that it is much harder to make sexy bras for bigger chests solely due to how uncomfortable underwire bras are for those chests. I had marks permanently under my chest my chest from the underwire and overall (though this is me personally) I would have rather not worn something lacy and potentially itchy that was also constantly digging into my skin and shoulders. ESPECIALLY if it's going to cost that much. Not that it can't be done, obviously, just that different sizes have different needs! It's much easier to wear lacy and sexy bras now that I don't have to worry about the weight of my chest forcing an underwire to do doubletime lmao (tldr; sexy lacy bras are definitely not a one size fits all thing if you want your sexy lacy bra to also be comfy)

[@Poohbear5560]

VS quality has gone down so much. I used to buy panties at least once a year (sometimes more) in high school, from 2013-2016. I had a good bit and didn’t need to buy more undies until a couple months ago. Almost every pair of panties i bought recently have a hole in there somewhere, yet some of ones I’ve had for almost ten years are still fine?? Such ass I’m never buying anything from them, even tho i still like their perfumes and stuff, the company is TRASH.

[@Prederick]

The Hulu doc on VS had me walking away with big "why does this exist anymore" vibes. While they have been COMPLETELY left behind though, I can't say that it's impossible for them to make a comeback. They'll never be what VS used to be, but other brands I thought couldn't have possibly reinvented themselves have, with a shocking amount of success (Abercrombie, for instance). But on this evidence, they're not going to become relevant again anytime soon.

[@almostatami]

The VS fashion show was MY Superbowl. I dreamed of being an angel at one point. Watching the 2009 VS model competition made it loud and clear that shit was never gonna happen.😂

[@HM-cq2rv]

Was that a TV show? That sounds interesting

[@almostatami]

​@@HM-cq2rv If I remember correctly it premiered before the fashion show started. So you got to see the eliminations and the winner. Then the fashion show would air and the winner would walk out at some point.

[@kirbybie]

victoria’s secret is the last company i would put my faith in so i’m just here for the tea

[@josephtafur]

After the Hulu show exposing Victoria's Secret, never supporting the company again, thank god my cousin doesn't work for PINK anymore.

[@gaerekxenos]

As someone who modeled for a friend's costume design for his class... I agree -- we *NEED* a proper showcase of movement for outfits, particularly if they are going to be worn for regular day use I hate dissing a friend's work, but the design he had was... awful. Horribly restrictive. I felt bad for the other guy who had to model his other costume since he didn't have a chance to give input on how restrictive the movement for the legs on the robes would be for early adjustments -- think pencil skirt without the stretch and considerably longer, and that basically sums up how bad the design was. Had to worry about how much he was allowed to move around before it ripped at the bottom part, and might have needed some emergency adjustments to allow for a slit just for proper movement to walk around. Obviously this was beginner level work for a beginning class, but... it was still pretty terrible... We had the whole "walk onto a stage in front of an audience" thing too for a student show. And we had to do it at a certain timing. And I don't think the other guy was able to hit the marked points on the stage very well at the right timing due to not being able to take wider strides due to the costume without risking it ripping >

[@meaniepanini3198]

that 5sos mural reference was a deep cut icb we were all fooled like that 💀

[@haneulnophi]

it's like victoria's secret is literally ashamed of their inclusivity

[@doodlyboy15]

Fun video, I love the idea of the phone check and how it was cut to show you making it 'during' the video. Maybe names on the slips, ribbon could be ebroidered?, it's a small check to make sure people get their phone back and a fun 'receipt' that you went. Thanks!

[@superstarnayeon2794]

literally three minutes in and you nailed it. we wanted pretty much the same show just more body types. the outfits and wings, the makeup and hair, so much of it was iconic and beautiful and they just decided to not do it anymore?? i think a big reason women watched the show, at least for me, it was because of how glamorous it was. the beautiful big wings and stunning models were so interesting to see and the show was just fun to watch, the live performances were so cool while models were walking next to them so you could see some interactions between them and the band. a lot of what the new VS feels like it pandering to women. i've been in the store a couple times and it's changed so much, it's not just lingerie but a big section is sportswear and pajamas (at my location, idk about others) and it feels a little off? like they mashed together two different stores but made the vibe the same? idk if it makes sense but it's so bizarre now. it doesn't feel like the brand has actually changed anything internal but they just threw out some non lingerie options and called it a day. i still think the people at VS have no real clue of how people see their brand or how to appeal to women anymore.

[@dearlily325]

The no phones thing would make the show or any event really so much bigger

[@GG-oo7gw]

it's also weird to me how they dropped the tour collection well before the event so people could "shop the looks inspired by the pink carpet", but then the VS app had a countdown clock to The Tour...but for what exactly? So we could see them post photos of models on Instagram? I 100% agree with you that they should have had the angels do a mini fashion show after working the crowd. Styling themselves would have fit right in with the "My Wings, My Way" campaign that VS is pushing right now, and letting them walk in their own way would not only showcase their personalities as "real women" but would show how the product fits in action. Especially when you have plus sized models, because things jiggle, and people probably want to see that! It sounds to me as if VS is giving up "the fantasy" because they decided to be more diverse in their casting, which isn't very "inclusive" in my opinion if you think that diverse models can't be sexy. I'm definitely going to watch The Tour when it comes out on Amazon, but I'll be disappointed if it doesn't live up to the hype (which it now sounds like it probably won't). XOXO GG

[@mcnultyssobercompanion6372]

I think what bothers me is Victoria's Secret's hyperbole. I understand, it's Marketing 101, it's what brands have done for generations, but there's something condescending about Victoria's Secret's prodigious sense of self-importance. Such as: "A re-imagining of the brand's iconic fashion shows, celebrating women and global creatives, that will take audiences on a journey through their behind-the-scenes craft and intimate stories of 'VS 20', a group of 20 global creatives". That sounds like they're talking about something important. But they're talking about lingerie. Don't get me wrong, I am a straight dude, I appreciate the virtues of lingerie. But the tone of Victoria's Secret promotional materials seems outrageously overblown in proportion to its actual....value. To an irritating degree. You'd think their lingerie can mitigate climate change or solve the housing crisis. And it's very irritating how they use the term "creatives". If you need anymore proof that their hyperbole is composed by sterile marketing wonks and not actual writers, it's right there. What bothers me most is I think they actually believe their own propaganda. I think these Victoria's Secret marketing wonks _actually believe_ their product is that important. It's important....to a degree. A _very specific_ degree. It serves its purpose....but in the end _it's just_ lingerie.

[@OpossumOnTheMoon]

The creation of lingerie is an art though, so I think their way of advertising it is fine. I view it like an art museum show. I can agree that the term creatives for the designers is pretty bad, but rather because they could just call them artists. Making clothes is incredibly hard and lingerie can be even harder since it has to be flattering and you can’t hide it with a top layer like a jacked or coat

[@FaeFlirtations]

If they had actually started making lingerie like they used to, in a larger size range that would genuinely be very emotional for a lot of people. It's not going to save the planet (of course the fashion industry is a huge burden on mother Earth) but if they celebrated a wider range of models in that familiar, fantastical lingerie it would feel important to a lot of people. You might appreciate lingerie for how it accents someone you are attracted to, but for people who like to wear it, it can feel empowering. Lingerie can even help validate your self identity and help with gender dysphoria. A lot of us remember seeing VS angels and not being able to fit in their bras and getting a message that you were not desirable. For some it's about whether or not they felt like they could even walk into a VS store five, ten years ago, even now. For better or worse VS has some power in influencing how society views bodies.

[@piknos3381]

Yeah, it's just lingerie like clothes are just a pile of stuff

[@Navearcade]

Swell is so fashion girlie in this!

[@lelalu101]

I love the shirt situation it's so cute and crispy

[@AdamantErinyes]

And yet, they still dont measure correctly in their stores or carry sizes much higher than a DD. A correctly fitted 30D, for example, is quite a small size. The letter just signifies that the bust is four inches larger than the underbust. Victoria's Secret is the worst of the worst when it comes to the old, outdated method of adding 4 inches to the band, and measures the overbust to get the band size. This results in a bra with a too large band and too small cup that has no support. The support should come from the band, not the straps.

[@xtuffcookiex]

I buy my under garments from Aerie and Fenty. They show all body types and I don’t doubt my beauty comparing myself to someone size 2 & 5’10.

[@rubydown3329]

Aerie bras are sooo good, I literally don't own any other brands

[@bearianna]

The vast majority of my bras, and ALL of my panties are Aerie. I LOVE that brand. Cute, lacy, and yet still diverse sizing. (I can go for a D or DD depending on style of bra or bralette. I'm a medium in panty size and like extra booty coverage, but there's a ridiculous amount of different styles! 😄)

[@Iceechibi]

@@bearianna Aerie is great, but they still don't go big enough! I am a 40DDD and nothing in their line has that or if they do, it sells out really fast.

[@Charlie-xm4fd]

Hey Swell! No hard feelings of course and please don't take this the wrong way but Bogotá is pronounced bo-go-tah with an emphasis on the final syllable (tah), and Lagos is like lay-gos :)

[@cb5056]

my friends used to sit and watch the show because of the glamour and the artists, what other brand has had that captivity? they really just threw that away for what?

[@Eisofice]

I feel like victorias secret need to embrace the campness of the 'fantasy'

[@Sailorella]

As someone who is a bigger person. A lot of under clothes for bigger people are boring. Like you want to look cute nah you get to wear a canvas bra and granny panties. You don't get to look cute cuz you're not tiny. It's very annoying. Now a show that was amazing was the selkie show. It was not only incredibly diverse, all body types ,all skin colors, wheelchairs Etc. The performances and walks for amazing. They had burlesque performers

[@NayNay97xoxo]

tbh i firmly believe they didnt pay the models to walk & didnt do a fashion show bc of costs. paying a model to walk vs just come and hang out is a cost difference. we cant forget that VS's sales have been declining year after year

[@sumlem]

Doechii (doe as in deer) could have been the highlight and a big moment!!

[@stevenm11920]

I’ll be the first to say I’m not really a fan of Doja cat but those instagram posts are iconic and I love it 😂😂

[@Indiechick]

15:29 OH GOD AS SOMEONE WHO ALSO WATCHED THE 5SOS PAINT DRY I FEEL YOUR PAIN 😩😭 (literally war flashbacks)

[@whatlindsaywrote]

i cackled at the 5sos mural reference those were hard times in the fandom

[@joannediaz2055]

I love your comment about how this could go… give them the lingerie and have them style it. Kind of like a cross between the Met Gala theme and a VS show that allows the model to express themselves

[@Paulxl]

They are trying to copy the Savage x Fenty shows. It's so obvious that it's painful.

[@cmmiestcat]

DOJA REVIEWING HER VS DRESS WAS SO FUNNY. THE DESCRIPTION WAS SO DETAILED 😭

[@softwaifu]

The part that gets me is that we are looking to companies to represent significant change rather than changing the way we engage with companies. True change would be no vs fashion show, so there's actually nothing they could have done to show significant progress. Pour one out for their event coordinator, tbh, they were fed to the wolves no matter how it turned out.

[@n30n_futur37]

Been binge watching Amanda’s content for the last couple days and I can say for absolute certain that if you are an event/convention planner, her event/con review videos are mandatory viewing. The sheer amount of value she gives in her videos should not be ignored by the industry. People in marketing for those industries should also watch her videos, because oh my god she’s giving you so many great ideas for free. I think going forward, we may see better cons/events as a result of Amanda’s channel getting more popular, but also, the event/con planning industries should have her on their teams as a customer/attendee experience consultant. The wealth of experience and knowledge she has gained from going to so many events and conventions should be recognized and compensated appropriately. I would say without a doubt that Amanda is an expert in her field.

[@siirenspell]

Off topic, but you look SOOOO pretty in this video

[@bluethebunnylord9274]

If it were me, first off, I would have Doja cat design her own dress that she’s comfortable in. I would still keep like the fantasy aspect like the wings and still have it sexy. I think I would also have some disabled models involved to model how well the clothes work for wheelchair users and some more modest, but still sexy clothes for those who want to wear lingerie but aren’t comfortable with exposing their entire body but still want to feel sexy or for religious purposes (there is a way to look sexy and still be modest) And of course maybe have the models style their wings to make them fit with their look, but also add in their own flare to it. And maybe afterwards they can do the off duty model thing with a panel where they talk about what it’s like to be in the modeling industry with their designers who talk about the upcoming movie and their experiences and people could ask questions. And I like the no phone thing too. Those are just my ideas

[@henriquejambu]

3:09 giggling at amanda mispronouncing bogotá as bogatta hshdhshshshhshs

[@TheBlondeGeniusGaming]

Remind me to hire Amanda if I am ever planning a runway for my designs or a different large event in general.

[@dee9340]

i like how the article mentioned all shapes and sizes + sexualities but then included *Asians* and only that like wtf? That seems like a whole other category to me 💀💀💀

[@laurengourley8211]

every time i forget about the 5 hour 5sos spray paint fiasco, someone brings it up again and i get mad again lmao

[@teagenthetiefling5296]

"but the hole real resilient" I love her so much sometimes

[@merrymachiavelli2041]

To be honest, I do think there is a bit of a core conceptual tension here. The thing with 'glamour' is that for glamour to be truly glamorous, it kinda _has_ to be elitist and therefore exclusionary. People tend to find the elite fascinating - it's why celebrities capture the public imagination so much and elite characters are so massively overrepresented in fiction. Even if rationally you don't personally see the appeal, the understanding that society in general views a person as important makes that person more interesting. It's inherently un-egalitarian and un-socially progressive...but humans are going to human.

[@mcnultyssobercompanion6372]

0:51 Ugh. Paul Verhoeven is much more than just "Showgirls". I feel compelled to say. He's also made excellent films like "Soldier of Orange" and "Black Book", which transcend the outrageous hyper-real sleaze Verhoeven utilized in "Showgirls". And films like "Robocop" and "Total Recall" are infinitely more witty and insightful (and well made) than they seem at first glance. I get it, but it's still a drag seeing his name used as shorthand for "low culture" (and "Showgirls" itself, in my opinion, admittedly bizarre as it is, doesn't qualify either.) He and his work are more than that.

[@Supersquishyawesomeness]

I loved showgirls 😂

[@namenamington]

I would love to watch Paul Verhoeven Barbie film, it would be spectacular and not even remotely like a Victoria's Secret fashion show.

[@Inna_98]

True!! I remember back when the shows were still a thing, tho I didn't like the lack of diversity in the models I always appreciated the fact that they could walk the runway in a more fun way along with the live performances!!

[@notMelB]

Ohhh yes Amanda you are just the girlie to cover this. Thank you ❤

[@AKA253]

It’s definitely just my opinion as a sexy fat girl, but I think we can tell if brands are actually into what they believe if they’re able to encompass the actual idea being presented, no matter how mediocre the result is. Even if it had been a lackluster fashion show with diverse models, it would still be a fashion show with diverse models. The fact that they stopped their glamorous designs on one type of model and came back with boring, less flashy designs on a more diverse group of models means the controllers of the VS brand still don’t believe diverse models can be popular or profitable. They adapted diversity and left behind the flair of a good show because they can’t comprehend having both at once and being successful. Until businesses (of all kinds) actually listen to feedback, no matter how minute, we’re going to keep getting somewhat okay products and performances. Amanda is so right, and I think VS could honestly just try again and see real results.

[@ShadowPhoenix82]

I didn't know it came back. My mother and I used to love watching this when I was growing up. Yes, because we can enjoy seeing beautiful women wearing beautiful wings walking to beautiful music without it being sexual. I know, so insane 🙄 But yeah, glad you made a video about this. I look forward to seeing what went down.

[@yulscott2283]

Yasmeen Ghauri and Naomi Campbell's walk also compliments the clothes that they're wearing.