The NEW Way To Complete The Verity Encounter In Salvation’s Edge (6 Swaps Only, Every Time)

[@saladgaming4339]

That's right, it goes in the square hole

[@watt222nd8]

I love this

[@salmonbamminfish2925]

1 dubby is so much simpler than he explained. Just send your own shape to the non doubled person. Then the one you are left with to the double

[@connormcateer7125]

That’s what I just commented, and he said 6 is the minimum to do it. The way we are saying is 5 moves.

[@parthsankhe213]

​@@connormcateer7125 5 moves minimum shouldnt be possible no? Afaik all 3 players have to remove the 2 initial shadows on their wall to progress the encounter, so they have to do minimum of 2 moves each -> minimum 6 total.

[@bgalazka1868]

​@@connormcateer7125 not 4 moves? Cc st st- start -- cst cst- 2 moves circle St ct cs- send your symbol to circle 2 moves All moves can be done at the same time

[@Adrienne2012Lusk]

@@connormcateer7125 technically it can be solved in less. No Doubles can be solved in 3 moves 1 Double can be solved in 4 moves All Double requires 6 moves.

[@Sunflamer]

​@@parthsankhe213 What gave you the idea you have to remove the initial shadows? Just form the keys. In 1 dubby, if circle is dubby and you load in as square, just send your triangle to circle. Triangle will then send their square to circle. And circle sends one circle each room. 4 total swaps and you're done. Or just actually foolproof it by first making everyone dubbed, then pass your own symbols to the other two statues, then pick up your key

[@jenarickman9215]

If there is anything I have learned about raiding, its better to be safe even if it means an encounter isnt cleared as fast. Generally teams for the witness have 2 people doing shapes and 4 people on ad clear, its just safer to do.

[@ozzie_]

funny enough two man is a lot faster with good runners. having everyone run is just chaotic, especially when there aren’t clear coms. you’ll get instances where someone breaks a shape that you need to break and then you need a cleanse

[@arteenesben5691]

Describing this as three separate cases makes it sound more complicated than it is. Practically speaking, the "3 dubby" case has the same solution as the "1 dubby" case, so there are only two scenarios to consider. The "no dubby" scenario requires players to give both of their shapes to a single statue. The "dubby" scenario requires players to give one shape to each statue. In both cases, never give a statue its own shape, of course. Premise: Label shapes as X Y Z Your statue holds X Your wall contains either XX or XY Solo players each callout whether they have double shapes at the start of each round Scenario 1: At least one player has double shapes Solution 1: Send a shape to both statues Steps 1a (wall contains XY): Give shape X to statue Y Give shape Y to statue Z Steps 1b (wall contains XX): Give shape X to statue Y Give shape X to statue Z Scenario 2: No player has double shapes Solution 2: Send both shapes to a single statue Steps 2 (wall contains XY): Give shape X to statue Z Give shape Y to statue Z

[@PpTheGreatest]

@@arteenesben5691 This.

[@Necrophag1st]

Exactly this. Video is massively overcomplicating it. It's quite simply: Do any inside players have doubles? If yes, give away both of your shapes, one to each other statue, following the rule of NOT giving someone a shape their statue is holding (the opposite of the braindead LFG strat). If no, you need to give both of your shapes to the statue that needs them to escape (Ex. Circle statue with Circle Square gives both of these shapes to Triangle statue). That's it. Done in 2 dunks no matter what, and no chance of people getting "killed' while they are in the middle of dunking their shapes and forgetting what they were doing after they get rezzed. Instead, they simply get rezzed and immediately pick up both shapes to leave. It is much faster, cleaner, and SIMPLER with this strategy. There are only 6 starting permutations, for anyone curious. Four of them will have at least one player having doubles, the other 2 are where no players have doubles.

[@G82Jesse]

While this strategy is probably great for dedicated raid teams, it doesn't have a place in LFG. The LFG strat just forces a 3-dubby situation every single time, by only requiring a single swap (at most) from each inside player first. It's what, an extra 20-30 seconds to make sure all three players are "ready for distribution"

[@PpTheGreatest]

@@G82Jesse While I mostly agree, most wipes in my experience come from bugs related to dunking around the time the witness notices you. The 6 dunk methods avoid this, by only having the witness notice us at the end

[@Epicninfa96]

@@PpTheGreatest just don’t dunk when the witness notices you. You hold the buff for an indefinite amount of time.

[@PpTheGreatest]

@@Epicninfa96 Even with that mitigation told to all teams I'm in before we start, and while we're actively playing too, it still screws up far too often.

[@Epicninfa96]

@@PpTheGreatest hey man. Double class item exploit was way more important to fix. The other argument is that if you have the game knowledge to execute this new strategy, you have the game knowledge to fix 3 shapes in one room.

[@PpTheGreatest]

@Epicninfa96 Sometimes, a symbol disappears entirely for good, so you only have five left. No amount of knowhow can fix that. Also, time isn't really on your side if you're already doing the long method and it bugs out half way through. Not sure it's quite as comparable as you're suggesting. Overall though, the raid is riddled with bugs and Bungie just can't be bothered to fix anything that only affects 1% of their player base, sadly. Verity with lost shapes, no visible shapes on back wall, and invisibility loading character glitch aplenty is ridiculous. The master challenge triumphs not tracking, the all same guardian class triumph very inconsistent, the momento not dropping. List goes on and on

[@roundraccoon6141]

I think what you explained at 1:51 is not how most people do it. Most teams (all 20+ of my runs) double their shapes up on the wall matching their statues shape, then pass those shapes which is pretty much the slowest method of solving the puzzle.

[@lordwhippleton9734]

And it is perfectly fine that way until triumph or challenge comes along.

[@roundraccoon6141]

@@lordwhippleton9734 I've done the triumph twice so far and both times we did the double up and pass. Would have rather done the other 2 methods of doing the enc, but the teams I was with didn't want to. We'll see what varies geometry is.

[@braydenpianoman]

Yep, the default LFG strat is forcing yourself into the '3 dubbie' state, then doing that process. It ignores the shortcuts available in the 1 dubbie and 0 dubbie states.

[@Rhukzy]

Without anyone having double shapes I’ve still exited the room with 1min30sec left on timer doing the lfg double stack strat. It’s chill strat that everyone knows so not gonna complicate anything.

[@erazzed]

​@@braydenpianomanIt's the slowest strat, but arguably the best IMHO. Requires zero communication and can be executed the same way every single time. Even with a seasoned raid team I'd prefer consistency over speed. It's the same for DPS rotations. The "best" DPS rotation isn't the best if it takes so much effort that players keep messing it up.

[@FlyingGrimReaper]

This is the actual correct method, need to break the mold from the other youtubers. Bungie gave you the hint with the “Shadows removed” when you wipe, you did it right when you remove 2 or any even number. If you deposit matching shapes to statues, the counter will not increase. Makes it easy to see who screwed up.

[@ultimate3885]

This is the way I've been wanting my team to do it but they usually end up getting confused at the 1 dubby part. A slight variation would be to start with just two rules: 1) If you have two of the same shape, give one shape to each statue (This solves the 3 dubby case) 2) If you have two different shapes give them both to the same statue that will need both of them (This solves the no dubby case) There are two ways to have the no dubby case, one way to have the 3 dubby case, and three ways to have a 1 dubby case. These rules solve 3/6 cases. In any of the 1 dubby cases, following these rules will end up with 2/3 players being done their swaps and whoever started with two of the same shape having two pairs of the same shapes. So lets say triangle player started with two triangles, and the other two players each start with a square and a circle. These rules will make the triangle player end with 2 squares and 2 circles, and the square and circle players will have 1 triangle each. Then triangle player then needs to give out 1 circle and 1 square to who needs them and you're done.

[@espiao1]

Finally someone that explained this method in video! 🎉❤ I had to make a spreadsheet on day 2 and test every possible outcome to get to this method. But never seen someone else teaching it. I only missed in the video you saying that the game does not let you keep any of the initial symbols to progress. Most people don't know about this rule and get things mixed up.

[@myanacanadont7069]

I've literally been using this strategy since day 1. About time the streamers figured it out

[@WistfulSum]

This is super nice for the triumph

[@Cromyth]

No need to reinvent the wheel here. 1. Give solo players their matching shape until they have 2 of their shape. (Triangle player should have 2 triangles, etc) 2. Distribute their 2 shapes to the other two players. (Triangle player gives one triangle to the circle player and then the other triangle to the square player) Works 100% of the time and you don't need to communicate with other solo players at all, unless in the random chance you start with both of your shapes

[@iEmadness]

Yea I’ve been doing this for weeks now it’s much easier also makes it easier to babysit someone who doesn’t understand how it works or first time doing the raid

[@codystartin999.]

Agreed

[@duckymomoman]

Doubling up is very easy to teach for people on their first run. The way shown in the video is technically more efficient and better for speeds. Both have use cases, but I agree your way is easier!

[@abalaz7457]

More aimed for people with established friend groups doing speed runs or challenge content. For lfg's with randoms keep doing double up since it's the most common method.

[@xTheLostLegendx]

Literally the best strat. This “dubby” thing is just making it way to confusing lol

[@xeothian]

Notable thing that I learned from trying to do the encounter triumph which wasn't explicitly mentioned is that you have to get rid of BOTH of the shapes you start with, it doesn't matter if you start with one of the correct shapes already on your wall, if it starts on your wall you have to get rid of it. All three of these methods satisfy that condition, but don't be tricked into thinking that you can shortcut the swapping phase by being smart about your swaps

[@jagged-fel]

This is a good way to think about it, but its actually not true. The mechanic is that all six shadows must be cleansed for you to be able to leave, and rooms RECEIVING shapes that dont match the shape your guardian is holding is what cleanses the shadows. You ever notice that shapes disappear from the statues holding them? So in theory, one person could keep a shape they started with, as long as each room received a shape that doesnt match the one their guardian is holding. Granted this would take longer than just everyone getting rid of their shapes, but its interesting to note.

[@xeothian]

@@jagged-fel I was wondering what causes the shapes to disappear from the statues and that makes a lot of sense, that's good info to know.

[@Soon22400]

I think its way easier for solo room players to just follow these steps: 1- Identify your statues shape 2- Give other shapes to their matching statues (S to S Statues, C to C Statues, T to T Statues) 3- If you have one of your own shapes already just leave it for now 4- Confirm each solo player has completed these steps and has 2 of their own shapes 5- Hand out your own 2 shapes to the other 2 statues ( S to C/T Statues, C to S/T Statues, T to C/S Statues) 6- Forge your shape and reunite with the team for the "Fashion Contest" phase Solo players are just forcing "3 Doubles" to orgainze the encounter And if the rooms start out in this state then you just skip to step 5 No talking No figuring out what the shapes were randomized to Just follow your steps and it all works out.

[@tedirl]

Send the shape that matches what you're holding to the person whose shape you also have on your back wall and then send the other shape to the other person. If you have double ups, send one to both of the players. Every situation can be done this way and requires each person to only trade twice, doesn't matter if you send a shape that'll double up someone because they're sending both of their shapes away anyway. The first two knights that spawn will always drop your two initial shapes that flash on the wall also, so this method is effective if you're going for the triumph because it's quick and as long as the 2nd and 3rd person aren't killing the initial knights then they wont mess up the order that the shapes drop and only have to kill the first two knights knowing they'll drop exactly what they need to send away despite have 3/4 shapes flashing on the back wall. For example: If you're a triangle and have triangle/square on your back wall, square player has square/triangle and circle has circle/circle. You send triangle to square, square to circle Square sends square to triangle, triangle to circle Circle sends a circle to both other players

[@Th3_Uninformed]

1 double seems like it can be done simpler: Step one: Establish that someone else has double. Step two: Establish that you do not have double. Step three: The person with double sends out both symbols. Step four: Send the person with doubles the symbol your statue holds. Step 5: Rooms are ready. The way this works is that you will never have the symbols you need to leave right off the bat. that means you will always have at least one of your own symbols and the symbol you need. The answer is to then send your own symbol to the person with doubles since you know they'll need it. Here's an example Room 1(circle): OO Room 2 (Square):△□ Room 3 (Triangle):△□ We let circle disperse like so, symbols in bracket mean they have been sent): Room 1(circle): Room 2 (Square):△□(O) Room 3 (Triangle):△□(O) Square and triangle room both know that circle is double and that they don't need their own symbol, so they send it to circle. Room 1(circle): (△)(□) Room 2 (Square)△(O) Room 3 (Triangle):□(O) And thus the room is solved with 4 trades as long as you know one person has double.

[@alejandrotellez2962]

It doesn't work, you need minimum 6 to remove all shadows.

[@LlamaD2]

It doesn't work this way, The Witness won't notice your efforts unless each player cleanses 2 shadows.

[@kriptoscorner1688]

You can "just send the one your statue holds" if Square has a Triangle and Triangle has the other then you gotta make sure Triangle sends it to square and not circle or else it all gets messed up.

[@onearmtanner9301]

I don’t think you mentioned that all shapes need to be sent somewhere at least once in the 1 dubby case. It might help to keep that in mind if you’re having trouble wrapping your head around it

[@phasedthrough3647]

Lfg runs will now be in shambles trying to change a strat in any way no matter how easier it is. Great vid Llama❤

[@garyl9192]

Consolidating shapes and then distributing is so disgustingly easy and quick I don't see why it needs to be changed.

[@lordwhippleton9734]

Triumph mainly. Challenge we will see next week.

[@the-annoyinator]

@@lordwhippleton9734 You can do double strat with triumph though

[@Adrienne2012Lusk]

Yes the triumph, but they said for the potential challenge that we'll find out on Tuesday.

[@LlamaD2]

I'm not saying it needs to be changed, I simply wanted to show the way you're "supposed" to do it

[@Adrienne2012Lusk]

@@LlamaD2 technically you could make this better, if you wanted to maximize on efficiency. The No Double Solution is basically Go Fish, ask who needs what, distribute accordingly. So everyone will have one of own, and one half of their solution. Just give the one you don't need away, and once all 3 do that, you have solution in 3 moves. The 1 Double is similar to no Doubles. So the doubled person gives 1 of own symbol to each other statue. While the odd ball combos on the other statues just give the 1 symbol that matches their own to the doubled statue. So like circle doubled, I'm square with a square/triangle & triangle guy has same combo of shapes. I give my square to the doubled circle guy, triangle does the same with his triangle. Circle gives circles as normal. And obviously all doubled is the same as normal, just distribute your shapes to the other 2 statues. So with all that I mentioned: No Doubles can be solved in 3 moves 1 Double can be solved in 4 moves All Doubles gets solved in 6 moves.

[@vrrrmin]

Llama does a terrible job explaining it, but in order to progress the encounter (The Witness Notices Your Efforts) each inside player must cleanse two shadows, so each of their shapes needs to be moved at least once. This is why, using his example for 1 Dubby, Square and Triangle can't just send their shapes to Circle.

[@emeraldskelly]

I have some additions to the video. Another requirement of getting out of the solo rooms is to clear the shadows in the rooms, which (long story short) requires everyone to trade at least 2 shapes each - which is why you can't just trade away a single shape in some configurations (and why this strategy doesn't suggest to do that). The second thing is that doing this method does not guarantee that inside swapping gets completed before ghost phase. There is misinformation that ghost phase triggers after 6 swaps inside. Some other people think it's 6 swaps combined inside and outside. But I've triggered ghost phase in as few as 4 swaps, or as many as 10.

[@Rahe27]

Overcomplicating it tbh. Sending the shape to the matching statue till doubles then distributing your doubles is idiotproof at this point.

[@Epicninfa96]

It’s even more idiot proof by making those 2 dunks of your double shape the same position for everybody. Dunk 1 double to the right and dunk the other into the left.

[@espiao1]

In my experience no quite idiot proof, the logic of this method and yours is in theory the same. Usually the people that I've played with, if they get this method wrong, they get the "safe" one too.

[@nimrodszocs2795]

@@espiao1 how is it the same in theory?? yea they both solve the encounter... llama's method aims to be as fast as possible and his method is for idiots, how are they the same ?

[@roundraccoon6141]

Ive had many people screw up the double up method, none of the strats are idiot proof especially with the bugs that can occur when the witness notices your efforts message appears.

[@kuhakuhdisboard7471]

Woa crazy edit from the editor! Thanks editor

[@ExaltedRiven]

For 1 dubby, why can't square send square to circle, Then triangle send triangle to circle, that would fix circle and since circle gave both other two shape circle, it would fix their's too, fixing this in 4 move?

[@Speif]

not possible as you need to "cleanse" you plate by doing at least 2 swaps, (you need to cleanse your statue aka room to get out of the glass) so yeah the circle dude does 2 swaps (the swaps to square and triangle) but square and triangle only do 1 swap so you wouldnt be able to exit

[@ExaltedRiven]

@@Speif I see, never knew we we had to do two swap minimum

[@vrrrmin]

@@Speif How does that work though? Because in No Dubby each player only swaps once.

[@MisonS2]

@@vrrrmin they do two swaps each by sending their shapes to another person. you aren't able to send both shapes at the same time afaik

[@chickenlittle0093]

I think this is what challenge will be. And the nice thing is one person can easily just tell everyone where to put there shapes.

[@ab_oo]

I think people are still confused about how this encounter works Besides making the same 3D shape inside and outside You have to do the "cleanse shadow" mechanic This means you have to receive two different shapes that aren't your shape Therefore, you CAN'T cheese this encounter, you have to give away all your starting shapes on the wall So at least 6 steps are required Also, there is no need to degrade this video since Llama is just showing a different strat It's great for more dedicated, experienced raid team You can finish within 6 steps, but requires more "thinking" stuff For LFGs, it's always better to run the "double then distribution" method

[@supreme782]

When referring to the 3D symbol it is best to use the words object or form and when referring to the 2D symbols use the word shape. This is terminology used in art/architecture and it helps to know what symbol you are working with. I think this simple call out makes the encounter way harder than it needs to be cause everyone just keeps saying shape to mean both 3D and 2D and it can lead to some very simple mistakes.

[@nathancox2349]

You can completely no mic the inside, the method ive used when playing is essentially taking your 1 dubby method and applying it to the situation without any doubles. You dont need to call out doubles at all, and if every player does what you described the mismatched players do in the 1 dubby method, it will work out every time, even with no doubles, in 6 swaps, and not a single word said.

[@lukelaws3545]

I’ll probably have to watch this again but I’m a little confused. The way I was taught is everyone have everyone make double shapes on the wall then distribute your own shapes to your other solo players which is pretty easy tbh. Is that more or less steps than this?

[@thebapslaps]

Technically less steps if everyone knows EXACTLY how to do this method. Instead of making everyone have double and then distribution, they just send the shapes straight to the correct person. So while Llamas method is faster, I disagree on it being easier. Most fireteams honestly have more issues with the ghost mechanic than the shapes, especially since it's been beaten to death by now. For LFG, I'd continue to do what you were taught. But if you are in Llama's server or a group of friends who will agree to learn this method. I wouldn't bother with it much. Oh but the trick at the end is worth trying.

[@piefire5713]

thats more steps, this stat has less swaps in general and is really good if your trying to do verity encounter triumph (just change no double strat a little bit and use 1 double strat)

[@jasontaylor4802]

This is basically the only speed strat. It's the fastest the encounter can be done. The way you were taught is normal lfg. Imagine being new to the raid and someone tells you to communicate beyond "I have my own two shapes" 😂

[@lukelaws3545]

I just needed a second watch, it actually makes sense

[@Red790]

That's more steps and takes longer

[@0037rmb]

This is the best way to do it, but most complex This is how our FT cleared the triumph

[@darkdiamondk]

Btw, i think your summarized is a bit more complicated than it needs I would use a couple of terms, primary shape (the shape your statue is holding) secondary shape (whatever is also on your wall) and last person (whoevers shape is not on your wall) Your secondary shape will always be going to the last person, no matter what, your primary shape is the only thing that changes, if the last person is doubled, give your primary shape to your secondary person, if they arent doubled, give it to the last person as well If all are doubled, you divide as normal And that ends the encounter for inside

[@alexsiegfried3693]

Unless challenge for next week requires something like this it's just easier to get everyone double shapes.

[@LlamaD2]

Agreed, this video serves to explain how it's "supposed" to be done though.

[@ryannmartinn]

In the 1 dubby situation, is it mandatory to send your first shape to the dubby? The video says so, but shouldn't it work if I send the correct shape to the non-dubby first?

[@ahadsaberi4604]

im a little confused why you could not do the 1 dubby case in 4 swaps, as in, square side gives its square to circle side (1/4 moves), triangle side gives its triangle to circle side (2/4 moves), and circle side gives a circle to each side (4/4 moves). why is that not a possible?

[@PpTheGreatest]

There is a hidden requirement for each inside player to cleanse at least two shadows from their wall, otherwise the witness wouldn't notice you and your key will not allow you to escape. Therefore, a minimum of six swaps is required.

[@LlamaD2]

Exactly what Pp said, you need to cleanse 2 shadows for the Witness to notice your efforts.

[@Epicninfa96]

Outside of triumph I don’t see how this is easier than the established method. You just make your wall have double shapes (which will match your statues held shape) dunk 1 of your held shape to the right statue, dunk your other held shape in the left statue. If everyone is consistently doing this in their room, extra shapes wont happen. The strat for the 5 man calcification was neat tho.

[@bodacious-hamster]

Wait till everyone is double

[@lordwhippleton9734]

There is no need. By waiting to double up you are needlessly adding an extra dunk. The encounter is meant to be done in 2 dunks on both outside and inside. (Outside's only exception is, when all the shapes are doubled up, it is a 3 swap) Each player will say whether they have doubles on their wall or not. If one person has doubles on their wall, then do the following. On inside for instance. If you are Circle: (You will always start with at least one of your shape on the wall, there are 2 of each shape type on the inside between the 3 rooms) 1. if you start with 2 Circles. Send both of your Circles, one to each player. 2. if you start with a Triangle. Send your Circle to Triangle and the Triangle to Square. 3. if you start with a Square. Send your Circle to Square and the Square to Triangle. In cases 2 and 3 the simple logic is do not put the square into the square hole. If you get a triangle on your wall, do not send it to triangle as they do not need it for their key to escape the room. Instead you should send it to who needs it to escape. - If we take case number 2 for example where the Circle player starts with Triangle & Circle and lets say the Triangle player starts with Circle & Triangle. - The Circle player needs a Triangle, the Triangle player needs a Circle. So they give those symbols respectively to each other. - The Circle player cant give Triangle to Triangle. The Triangle player cant give Circle a Circle. So they give those symbols respectively to Square. - The Square player, because they have to have a Double Square will simply distribute them evenly to each person. - Each player at the end of the above actions should now have their key. Given S C T Starting SS CT TC S sends both their symbols out. C sends C to T, and T to S. T sends T to C, and C to S. If there is no starting doubles inside: In this case you will send both symbols to whoever does not show up on your wall. If you do not see a Triangle on the wall, send both your symbols to triangle as you have their key. Given S C T Starting SC CT TS S sends their symbols to T C sends their symbols to S T sends their symbols to C This method will also work to let people complete the triumph associated with this encounter without having to wait on 9 dunks and instead doing 6 to complete inside. Edit: Underlined text is deleted by KZbin. Had to go back and add it in. This is all useless info if you dont care about triumph lol.

[@bodacious-hamster]

@@lordwhippleton9734 nah

[@95VR407FA5]

Lol based on his answer. He's an idiot. "Nah" ​@@lordwhippleton9734

[@lordwhippleton9734]

@@bodacious-hamster I have a degree in this, please don't let it go to waste! T_T

[@bodacious-hamster]

@@lordwhippleton9734 no thanks

[@NGFLEXX92]

Tbh i wouldn’t really say this is a strat. It’s more like if you actually understand all the basics of the encounter. This is actually the way bungie intended people to do it. This video will help people with the challenge mode, especially if they can understand the encounter.

[@bjcooper4365]

This is huge for speedrunning

[@patrikpapke9315]

great vid, thx

[@graemeclark6680]

Amazing thumbnail wtf

[@troycognigni687]

for the 1 dubby scenario you gave, why cant the square and triangle player send just their square and triangle to the circle player. why does the square player have to send his triangle to the circle player just to get another triangle from the triangle player? couldnt this be done in 4 moves if circle player sends both his circles and square and triangle send both of their matching shapes to circle?

[@BlankGamer001]

My team just does it by having the inside ppl type in chat ‘Their Shape - Shapes on the wall’ so that tells the outside ppl who needs what key and the inside ppl can see who needs the shapes they don’t need out of their ‘pool’ of shapes. The absolute max amount of swaps we make are 6 total when it’s 3 dubby, other than that it’s either only 3 swaps for no dubby or 4 for 1 dubby

[@BlankGamer001]

Granted we know what each others guardians look like so that’s not a great lfg strat

[@Tennoats]

This is the strat my team have been using since day one lmao

[@_Dreadd]

No dubby is this logic: You each have eachother’s “key”, so send your two shapes to the person’s shape that you don’t have. 1 dubby can be solved in 4 moves with this logic: If you are not dubby, send your shape to dubby. If you are dubby, send both of your shapes to each person. And 3 dubby is sending your shapes to each person.

[@jypyannukke]

I have been using a similar strat for weeks now. Made an entire spreadsheet working things out on how it can be even faster, my strat is BY FAR the fastest

[@gen8901]

“Speak to me like I’m an 8 year old” - Michael Scott

[@nez1507]

My team already has been doing this since day one. We have an infographic made and everything.

[@speedymcfan]

consider this: in the 1 dubby situation, if square sends square to circle and triangle sends triangle to circle, u can solve it in 4 swaps as opposed to 6

[@VisJordanMusic]

You have to pass away both your starting shapes to be able to leave, so this won't work.

[@Dinoguy7719]

​@@VisJordanMusicI was wondering why it wasn't that simple.

[@lordwhippleton9734]

@@VisJordanMusic This

[@arch0094]

Surely in 1 dubby easiest way is; Dubby - send one to each No Dubbies - send your own to dubby player In that scenario you are ready in just 4 swaps

[@TheNovitatis]

I have a theory on a communication-less, fool-proof set of rules for Inside players to follow Verity Inside Solution 1. You must give out both of your shapes 2. The shape of the recipient must not match what you are giving them 3. One shape will go to each other player This is based on the fact that no player starts with their "key" and that like in your "one dubby" scenario, distributing two unmatched shapes will only have one valid combination of recipients. If I missed anything, please let me know! Edit: A couple commenters let me know that this set of rules can break in "no dubby" scenarios, here is my amended version: Verity Inside Solution 2.0 1. Check your wall for double shapes, and type "d" into chat if you have a double 2. If there are no doubles, give your two shapes (key) to the appropriate shape 3. If there are one or more doubles, complete the following: 1. You must give out both of your shapes 2. The shape of the recipient must not match what you are giving them 3. One shape will go to each other player

[@Rollonmath42]

Those are the exact rules my groups have been running with since week one, and if everyone follows them correctly, it works out every time. We keep our inside communication down to letting the other rooms know you're done with giving out your two shapes, and then after three confirmations, everyone double checks their wall to verify all were done correctly.

[@Hoonh]

These rules do not work without communication. You cannot possibly complete the full exchange in 6 swaps without knowing if anyone has a 'dubby'. If the call is SCT and individuals have SC CT TS, when square passes SC to C and T respectively, triangle is now unable to exchange theiri square without either giving circle a 2nd square or square their own symbol. The rules work for the other 2 scenarios but in the case where no one has 'dubby, it fails.

[@Ecoqq]

@@Hoonh this is the only situation that it doesnt work in out of the hundereds of possible start combinations so 1 in like 300 chance doesnt really matter espcially cuz the solution is pretty easy

[@lordwhippleton9734]

​@@Hoonh is right, you will need to communicate just a tad for the 6 dunk strat compared the the 9 dunk strat where you wait for the others to be done before distributing. In this case you would just need to type in chat an indicator of whether or not your room starts with doubles. If the room does start with doubles then you can proceed fine like you planned. Otherwise if there are no doubles on the starting insides, then you'll need to pass both shapes to a single person as they keys have been made but are not in the right spots. So by dunking each shape into a single statue you are effectively giving them the key they need. Given S C T Starting SC CT TS S sends their symbols to T C sends their symbols to S T sends their symbols to C They will know who to send to because their wall does not have that shape to start with. All that needs to be done is to know if you start with the double or not.

[@sQuaTsiFieD]

​@Ecoqq nobody having doubles is not 1/300 chance. It is extremely common and will happen more than not in a full 3 phase run.

[@HigherEdGaming]

In the first case is it not simpler to give your shape to the other shape on your wall (totaling 3 sends)? This issue comes up in the 1-dubby explanation as well - Why wouldn't both w/o dubs send their own shapes to the 1 dub - auto completing their keys? Both of these situations (in theory) require

[@PpTheGreatest]

Essentially, yes. The real hidden requirement is that each player must clear at least two shadows from their wall to complete the encounter. Therefore, any method that requires less than 6 swaps fails to meet the condition to complete verity.

[@AnxiousOrko]

I still have yet to master this encounter, anyone else? 😅

[@golden3eagle884]

is it possible to get a dubby of shapes not your own? cant remember if it is possible. Example: triangle statue spawns with 2 cicles on back wall.

[@LlamaD2]

Not possible

[@cread13]

i got an even easyer one for ya. when the inside people get taken they each look at the wall see what shapes they have and what there statue is holding. if anyone has 2 of there own shape they call out that they are ready to trade. if you look at your wall and dont have 2 of your own shape then u kill the knights to find the one that not yours and give it to the statue with the same shape so they can double up. when each player has double of there own shape and are ready they then kill there knights and give away there shapes. its real simple 2 step process my team came up with while learning the raid to make the inside part go smoothly.

[@NobleVI_343]

Everytime I'm with a 'good' group on lfg, people say they know this method, fuck up splits, then we run it back to the usual. Tried it with challenge to save time and it just wasn't working. Idk why but people just get match/distro so much more.

[@twistwist777]

The problem is not passing the shapes per se, the never ending problem in this encounter 99% of the times (mainly with lfgs) is communication, when people pass shapes too fast and change the back wall for the other teammates, messing everything up... then it needs to be corrected which again, 99% of players can't communicate efficiently, ending in a wipe.

[@ankin_speeds]

this is very big brain

[@randommixedletters]

The amount of over complication this single encounter creates and the amount of brain busting is the entire reason I am just witness farming until I get all the patterns and then never touching this garbage again XD (thankfully got the exotic quick for once so don't have to worry about that either). It's not this difficult, if communication is already happening, all people technically need to do is communicate who needs what. So in the 'No Dubby' case (using the example in the vid), Circle says 'I need triangle', square says 'I need circle', and triangle says 'I need square'. Everyone gets rid of what they don't need based on the call outs, 3 swaps you're done, you kill your other knight, pick up that shape, then kill the ogre, drop the two knights, pick up the 1 shape you are missing for your key, and you leave. 1 Dubby is even easier, the Dubby person hands out both their shapes without saying anything, the other two simply hand the shape they don't want to the dubby person, and then follow the same knight rotation as stated above. 4 swaps and you're done. And then 3 Dubby is the easiest, everyone just hands out their shapes to everyone else, then you pick up the shapes and leave. It just feels so unwarranted to add in so many additional swaps that just confuse things and make it that much harder to explain. It's the whole reason the 'main lfg strat' is STILL baffling peoples brains because it creates a whole lot of unneeded clutter that completely separates what you want to do to finish the encounter from what you are doing. 'Sort then distribute' is the worst thing that has happened to this encounter and it makes this whole thing require a PHD just to get it across to other people how you're supposed to do it. I just...I can't bother, having to teach a whole new raid in the middle of a raid just isn't it chief, and everyone over complicates it.

[@JoshuaAdam269]

In the 1 dubby situation, would it work for square to keep his triangle, send his square to circle, the dubby person, and triangle send their triangle to the circle, whilst circle sends out both their circles, in the end they should all get their shapes. Right? And that’s only 4 swaps.

[@JoshuaAdam269]

Nvm I read someone’s comment explaining the minimum 2 swaps needed.

[@Twelvis69]

For 1 dubby why does the square statue send triangle? Cant square and triangle statues just make one send each? (square sends square to circle, and triangle sends their triangle to circle?) That would be 4 trades total right?

[@abalaz7457]

You would not get the ghost event with 4 passes which is required to progress the encounter. Hence this method brings everything to 6 passes. Same reason you wouldn't want to simplify the no dubby situation to just 3 trades.

[@m05513]

You can't get out if you're using a shape that started in your own room. Its why the old strat (make it full doubles) was popular, it required minimal thinking to ensure this case was achieved.

[@FragdaddyXXL]

@@abalaz7457 Don't the dissections count towards the 6 needed? If so, the 4 inside person trade would work no?

[@Twelvis69]

I was definitely under the impression that outside dissecting counted towards the 6 total. Hmm

[@jasontaylor4802]

You have to remove 2 shadows to leave the room. ie. you can't finish with your own two shapes.

[@bjcooper4365]

Does that bonus technique work on phase one or only on phase 3?

[@Speif]

this works for teams that are wanting to get faster times on this, aka speeds and such. I would not say this is the best and "easiest" strat for you to do in a LFG team or a team you have never done this encounter with, as you all really need to be the same page, for you to ask an LFG player / new player that hasnt done this raid to do this strategy, they would just explode. best method is to double all the shapes up | example: if im circle and i have a square and a circle on my wall, im going to send out my square to the square statue. just sending your one symbol that is NOT the symbol you're holding to the person that IS holding it, super simple. If you have one person who already has double then all you need to do is just swap 2 shapes between the 2 people who arent doubled up so then everyone is doubled up in 2 moves, if its triple "dubby" then you can instantly go on to "phase 2" phase 2 being you just send your symbol to both the statues evenly. AKA - one goes left one goes right, making sure that the symbol you are sending is your symbol that you are holding, makes it omega easy to explain and overall the better method unless you are looking to do speeds or just overall quicker times with people you have done this strat with many times before, otherwise there is absolutely 0 point skipping 20 seconds of gameplay, but even then i say that method is still better, 0 comms needed for it too. also doesnt really fix anything as (personally) i have never run into problems with the inside people taking too long or whatever good video on explaining that strat, just maybe specify that its a advanced strategy that only select teams should be doing, otherwise you're gonna be getting 13 year old joe shmoe and his 5 other spanish friends stuck on this encounter for unholy hours trying to do this.

[@btr1011]

Even for speeds if your doing them you are just doing normal since they are coordinated

[@Darkraz]

Overly complicating Keep it simple - give your friends their shape - give your shape to your friends - take your friends shape and escape Easy

[@Proven_Taxpayer]

That’s slower

[@Qouth]

Giving all 3 solo players doubles, and then doing the distribution just seems way easier

[@raijinlmfao]

it is way easier, that’s what my team does, and we don’t have to do any communication

[@MakabeMatsuri]

In this way the only comm you need is “double check” and it takes less steps but in the comment section I saw someone posted a way for no dubby which only need players to interact with the statue once without comms kinda brilliant if it works out

[@lordwhippleton9734]

it is easier, the method of doing it this way would be mainly useful for triumph or if challenge gets involved in it.

[@scarletsun04]

there is no way doing that much more dunks is easier, just send the shape that the statue is *not* holding. It's not that deep.

[@Ecoxiss]

This is way more compllicated than the other strats for a minimal saving in time (in a best case scenario and even in theory) while easier strats provide a time benefit through being more braindead and having less room for errors. This strat seems alright but only benefits speed clears really.

[@littlez2306]

I’ve taught lots of people how to do this encounter, I don’t think teaching people a new way to do this is going to work at this point lol

[@shotty.]

sounds like you haven’t done many raids before this one then lmfao

[@soraneptune4178]

Embracing the risk of sounding a bit condescending. But isn't this common sense? I usually do the double up and then unsorting method with my group to keep it easy but when you look at inside and the set of criteria you have to meet is pretty obvious that this is possible. As the only criteria you have to meet at the end to make 3d and walk are : no double on any wall, no wall shapes that match your statue shape and neither of your shapes are the actual shapes you started with. This means in any scenario you are done in max 2 swaps per person. totalling 6. that's pretty easy to understand no?

[@LlamaD2]

You'd be surprised...

[@louishall413]

i think in 1 dubby ur making it more complicated that way. in ur example. circle sends circle to each other person. square sends square to circle and triangle sends triangle to circle and ur done.

[@jakubbercik6965]

Is is really onyl viable for clan runs and experienced groups, this'll never run in LFGs and Sherpas.

[@WHlSKYtx]

This is super clever but I’m never doing this 😂

[@raid9620]

Unless this ends up being challenge, I don’t see a reason on changing the norm too much with this encounter. Having multiple Strats of this encounter will only make people even more confused about an already confusing encounter.

[@icytor1150]

I see. No dubby means you have someone's key already. Neat.

[@corporatePaladin]

If you cant remember where you have left to dunk after being noticed, thats a skill issue. not a mechanic issue.

[@sonozie]

OH MY GOD THE EDITING AT 11:37

[@JustMarr]

How does the "removing shade" works if no double strat works? I thought that every solo player has to dunk a shape on each statue to remove shade, but if that work it clearly isnt that.

[@PpTheGreatest]

The real hidden requirement is that every player must cleanse at least two shadows on their back wall. That means, as long as each inside players send away at least two shapes, everything is OK, regardless of how many individual statues they dunked those two shapes in.

[@Adrienne2012Lusk]

I will say you're over complicating the 1 dubby situation. The dubby distributes to the opposite two as needed. But the other two shapes (as illustrated) will have one of own, and one needed for solution. So therefore the two players with variety shapes just need to share their matching shape with the dubby person. By keeping the one they need, and then receiving the one from the dubby person, they have their solution in a total of 4 moves instead of 6. Example: circle is dubby like shown in video. Dubby distributes both in 2 moves as normal. So square just need to give his same shape square to the dubby guy - 1 move, and the triangle guy needs to do the same - move. Therefore dubby receives the 2 other shapes needed, the non-dubbies got rid of the ones they didn't need & due to having half of their solution already, once dubby gives them the other half, it's complete. So I like your solution, but you're over complicating it.

[@ron1212]

This was a very good video

[@LitCamAct1]

Imagine the Verity Weekly Challenge is this.

[@victorb7562]

So what is the benefit of this strat exactly because it's not easier just a little faster but there is more than enough time to mess up multiple times or explain what someone has to do while doing the encounter. With this strat you have to remember 3 different scenarios while with the normal strat of forcing the 3 dubby scenario, it's always the same. This is overcomplicating things for no reason unless the challenge is that you have to finish with only 6 swaps every round.

[@Megatherium]

This method is so much better, especially for master challenge. The biggest cause of wipes in a master challenge lfg scenario is usually something time related. So using the "simple lfg method", you end up with people in the middle distributing their own shapes when the witness notices them. So they get back to their room with two rounds of swapping left and 3 shapes if other people were able to distribute properly. It actually takes much more coordination to do this using the so-called "simple lfg method". Using the more efficient method, you do one round of swapping, you kill your unstop, then you go near the glass as the witness notices you. This puts your ghosts right next to the deposit area. Then you respawn in your room and you kill your knights which are guaranteed to have your normal key. For challenge, each person just sends one shape and they are good with easily 90 seconds left.

[@darkdiamondk]

I have been trying to get my group to do this start for WEEKS, now I have a video to show them since they refuse to listen to me, I first had a strat that was incorrect cause I used one of our starting shapes, that was before I knew you had to get rid of both your starting shapes, and I re brainstormed and got to this but they wouldn't let me try it

[@scottmonish4969]

But what if you have double shapes but they're not your own. You can't just send them both out.

[@MakabeMatsuri]

Sry but based on my own experience for inside I think you can only have your own double symbols like if you are triangle you won’t have 2 squares or 2 circles cause if you have 2 circles the circle guy will not have any circle which means that guy will get their key without doing anything Bungie surely don’t want that to happen so it’s programmed to be like you can only have double shapes of your own

[@LlamaD2]

This is not possible

[@scottmonish4969]

Thanks for the info

[@Mugiwara2k]

This encounter is why I’ll never probably completely clear this raid, despite being a veteran raider with dozens of clears on most raids. This is just too confusing to me (Even though I know I’ll hear the usual “It’s easy!” comments)

[@ogLenas]

So what exactly triggers the witness death mechanic?

[@reecehinton1588]

Nothing, just random interuption

[@bamlakbekele6494]

@@reecehinton1588 Not true

[@Richiejamescr7]

6 swaps in shapes triggers it

[@realfake6669]

I'm just watching the video, the "No Dubby" makes sense, I don't need to watch the "3 Dubby", but the "1 Dubby"... I think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be A key part of your "new strategy" is communication (via mic or text) to find out if it is "No/1/3 Dubby" But with your "1 Dubby" it is more complicated than it needs to be If it is said that circle has Dubby and the others don't, then circle sends a circle to the other two, and the other two just have to send their matching one to circle, so done in 4 moves (better, simpler and faster than your 6 swap method) In general probably a better strategy for speedrunners, but in LFG the well-known No mic variant will still be used

[@Speif]

not possible as you need to "cleanse" you plate by doing at least 2 swaps, (you need to cleanse your statue aka room to get out of the glass) so yeah the circle dude does 2 swaps (the swaps to square and triangle) but square and triangle only do 1 swap so you wouldnt be able to exit

[@LlamaD2]

Not possible this way since each players has to cleanse 2 shadows

[@dhoggors2176]

​@@LlamaD2this "cleanse" mechanic wasn't mentioned in the video so it isn't clear that a minimum of 6 swaps is needed. "1Dubby" technically could be done with 4 swaps (square keeps their initial triangle, triangle keeps their initial square in your video) but that won't solve the encounter as their initial shadows weren't cleansed. Otherwise great video but the 1Dubby section wasn't explained well because the viewer isn't given the restriction that their initial shadows needs to be cleansed before the encounter is solved.

[@bamlakbekele6494]

@@LlamaD2 You're overcomplicating it. With no callouts and regardless of the situation you can do 6 passes every time. Lets say you start with Circle and Square and you are Circle. Since Square doesn't need square you will always send the square you have to triangle and since you already sent triangle a shape you just send your own Circle shape to square. This works everytime without fail and it doesn't require any silly name callouts. And if you have two Circles you just send one to each.

[@ninjawatchdutchmen7171]

“If you know what your doing”

[@lukerobertson8310]

For the '1 Dubby' scenario, why doesn't the square just give the square to the circle, and the triangle give the triangle to the circle also? It accomplishes the same thing in 4 moves.

[@darkdiamondk]

Cause then the triangle would have to give that square they have to square

[@lukerobertson8310]

@@darkdiamondk What? The point of the encounter is for the square to end up with no squares.

[@darkdiamondk]

​@@lukerobertson8310correct, but you have to have a fresh set of shapes each time, so triangle has to get rid of that square, they could give it to square, but that's stupid like you said, or they could give it to circle but they just got a square from square

[@lukerobertson8310]

@@darkdiamondk oh I see, didnt realise you had to have correct set of shapes

[@arealphoenix9897]

This is very close to how it's usually done but needlessly complicates it by skipping the two matching shapes step. Feels like clickbait tbh, I'm disappointed. Edit: I ended up using this method for both Verity triumphs, apologies for my previous comment!

[@nullandvoid7524]

Unless you're doing challenge there's no real reason to do this. Or unless you have 2 people dissecting. If you do double method by the time dissecting is done each of the inside players will be grabbing their keys. So it's not any faster in a majority of scenarios. It's just doing it differently for the sake of being different.

[@the-annoyinator]

Double strat is easier lmao, and you can use it for triumph too, this will be useful only for challenge

[@Red790]

this is really simple but lfg still can't comprehend the basic strategy

[@xTheLostLegendx]

Because double shape is just better

[@Blanktester685]

because its inferior, why fix what isnt broken?

[@Red790]

@@Blanktester685 nah if your team has a brain this is the best strategy, the current 'meta' strat takes longer due to unneeded shape passes

[@Red790]

@@xTheLostLegendx it's not

[@xTheLostLegendx]

@@Red790 it literally is. Its easy as well

[@justinmarsden]

Doesn’t help that the wall is bugged half the time and you can’t see your back wall shapes

[@Excellence308]

Sadly the solution to this encounter isn't sorting shapes efficiently, but rather having the entire fireteam be on the same track. As much as I love to be efficient, catch me later explaining and convincing people to use this strat every time I raid.

[@BatM-l6j]

So...the new method is the legit method with extra steps. Just do the low-com method and finish it without the hassle.

[@ninjawatchdutchmen7171]

So LFG will still struggle

[@BDupp2]

This is endlessly more complicated than just doubling up then distributing. You’re adding 10x more needed communication to save at most 1 dunk per person.

[@reecehinton1588]

Yeah thats the whole point. This isnt about being easy, its about being optimal.

[@connormcateer7125]

In 1 Dubby, why not just have (using the example already provided on screen) why not just have (using abbreviations) C send 1 to each. S gives their original 2 shapes to C. T gives their T to S? That’s SIGNIFICANTLY simpler than having to solve this mental math. If I’m counting, that’s 5 moves and it’s done.

[@connormcateer7125]

Double checked myself and yes it’s 5 moves, I’m not sure where he’s getting the 6 is the minimum it takes to complete. Normally love Llama vids, but I gotta say this one is an L and I’ma dislike out of love. So he knows this typa content ain’t it. Even easier than the dubby method if you really don’t wanna do the classic 2 step give everyone their own shape -> distribute it. Is just to one by one say what each player needs and coordinate who’s giving what to who.

[@fleefie]

Llama, why did you upload this? This is how my team did it when we did the encounter blind, and it's how I did it for the triumph... But why? This will destroy LFG groups. People can already barely manage to do a nine trades double strat, why oh why must we now endure the "do it optimally in ten attempts rather than suboptimally in one" syndrome :(

[@darriangario3447]

No dubby sounds so silly

[@trunkywastaken]

It baffles me that people can’t get this down😭 it’s so easy like how do you not understand bro😭😭😭