The Nic Jones story: a voice as unique as his guitar style

Despite being one of the worlds most respected guitarists, he alone is convinced that he lacked any real skill.

[@samcartermusic]

Being Nic's guitar stunt double on this documentary was one of my proudest moments.

[@peterfriedman2830]

Hi Sam, it's an honour and a privilege to have your comment here. For anyone here who doesn't know Sam's work, here's his wonderful Nic Jones Canadee-I-O tutorial video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXKyn6xtf5hmgs0 and here's Sam performing his own wistful, powerful "Dreams are made of money" on Jools Holland's TV show: vimeo.com/151704214

[@samcartermusic]

@@peterfriedman2830 thanks Peter, that's very generous of you. All the best!

[@jeffmoore9487]

@@samcartermusic In the 80's a Brit sent me a couple cassettes with Penguin eggs and From the Devil. I worked and worked on Canadiio, and much later saw your vid. I was both happy with my facsimile and overjoyed to see you'd properly worked out Nic's method. To me Nic is another genre all on his own and equal in value to the rest because it's as unique and full of possibility as any. Thanks for posting you tutorial all those years ago. In America, I've never met a soul who knows of Nic.

[@robertm7071]

Dear Sam, I sent an email to a wonderful Gernan guitarist, Jens Kommnick, recommending that he listen to Nic and, because your demonstration of Canadee-I-O is so excellent, that he watch you play it on KZbin to see how it's done. It's wonderful for all of us to see how it's done.

[@samcartermusic]

@@jeffmoore9487 thanks Jeff, I am pleased that you found my video helpful. I agree that Nic's work was something else, a true great.

[@AnthonyMonaghan]

"Little Pot Stove" is one of mine and my daughter's favourite Nic Jones songs. When that chorus appears out of the gloom. Penguin Eggs is a stunning album. What a talent and what a lovley man.

[@peterfriedman2830]

Well said!

[@xchopp]

Nic Jones, John Martyn, Nick Drake, John Renbourn... legends all and only one left now.

[@peterfriedman2830]

National treasures, all of them.

[@fdboucher]

Love you Nic! Thank you for your tineless and unforgettable music.

[@pierre-de-standing]

Ooh, a guitar played by Sam Carter and made by Richard Osborne! I had the privilege of hearing Nic at Southend Folk Club, it was the first time I had seen anyone play the fiddle not under the chin, but tucked into his waist. A great talent.

[@peterfriedman2830]

I don't think there was any film footage of Nic playing the violin?

[@WatTyler13]

My God. Even this 10 minute clip reduces me to tears x

[@peterfriedman2830]

I know the feeling!

[@oozelumbird]

Wonderful. His singing at the end made me cry, always been a huge fan of his playing.

[@peterfriedman2830]

Makes so many cry!

[@doviejames]

I wandered into the Arhoolie record store in '89 and they were playing Penguin Eggs. I bought it on the spot and easily the best $10 I ever spent. Simply amazing and a time machine. Such gratitude for this man and his artistry.

[@peterfriedman2830]

A time machine for me too.

[@katryanaorange2092]

Today. I found nick jones. Today I rediscovered hope. So simple and so clear💙 I feel very inspired; thanks to him.

[@peterfriedman2830]

He definitely does that to a lot of us Katryana.

[@ivonsmith4255]

an utter hero of mine when introduced to his music when I was 14 in the mid 80s - fell in love with Nic & his music

[@peterfriedman2830]

As you can see from the comments below, you are definitely among friends here, Ivon

[@johnbirkby2913]

This video belongs to Proudfoot. The proceeds of the DVD go to Nic. to support himself and his wife Julia. Go out and buy the DVD!!!!

[@MelissaCox1992]

I've been listening to folk all my life, but being born in 1992 he wasn't performing then for obvious reasons... I just discovered him yesterday, and so glad I did. His music isn't (Surprisingly...) (NOT) on any streaming services, which is blasphimous really. I think I was born in the wrong decade, because I HATE! all this autotune (C***!!!!_ that seems to identify as music. I'm a classically trained pianist, but have listened to masses of different music from as early as I can remember. Thank you for this. Everyone's right, his voice is somewhat transendant..

[@TheMastafarta]

Thanks so much for uploading this. I saw Nic play at the Jug o Punch club in Birmingham in 1972 and have listened to everything he's recorded. The very best.

[@peterfriedman2830]

As far as I'm concerned, he's even more than a national treasure. He's a world-class contributor to our musical heritage.

[@MrCarterbrandon]

At the point at which he was touring Penguin Eggs, I was going to lots of Birmingham folk clubs, and seemed to be seeing him on a monthly basis. At the Old House I saw him enrapture every woman in the room (see reply to Bea Roberts below) and have a laugh when someone in the audience started playing the spoons in one of hs instrumentals, leaving gaps for a couple of spoon solos. At our own University club, it was so packed we had to go next door for more seats and we offered a lady a free ticket if she'd help - she turned out to be Nic's wife. At the Old Crown, Nic wouldn't stand on the stage, but on the floor just in front of it, so I was within 3 feet of him the whole gig, watching and listening like a hawk to learn. (He also joked that he'd offended the landlord by asking for a pint of water). I wonder if this self-effacement was why he didn't play the two big 'folk music halls' at the Bell and Pump and the Hare and Hounds, which were much bigger venues.

[@peterfriedman2830]

@@MrCarterbrandon Wow! Nic gig tales are such a treasure!

[@MrCarterbrandon]

@@peterfriedman2830 And of course I got me a signed copy of Penguin Eggs at the University gig.

[@richardbourke9412]

Wonderful. I first heard individual track of his penguin eggs on folk compilations. I'm so glad he's getting recognition, that his quality just wins through, against all that life threw at him. I can't believe I'm the first person to comment.

[@peterfriedman2830]

Hi Richard, I'm really glad you did comment! Here's the full length version of the Nic Jones documentary video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/maaYgpKOe9OepKc

[@tonedumbharry]

I saw Nick play at the Grapes folk club, about 1978 or 79. Sublime. Saw him again, with Joe and Belinda in 2012. Still sublime. Got to chat at both concerts. Love the way he was still looking forward to what life was going to bring in 2012.

[@peterfriedman2830]

He has a ton of spirit, our Nic!

[@tonyrees948]

Fans of Nic might like to hear the full 1975 live recording I uploaded to youtube last year: search YT for "Nic Jones at Oxford Polytechnic Folk Club, March 1975 (audio only)" (I don't think this comments section supports direct links). Does full justice to Nic's talents of the day, in my view anyway...

[@peterfriedman2830]

Thanks, Tony, I had started listening to the beginning of that recording a while back and you've just reminded me to go back and listen to some more. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYW4d5p7aq1shM0

[@jameswburke]

Blessed to see Nic playing live at the Pewter Tankard folk club in Romford, then at Havering Atte Bower folk club in the early seventies. Fabulous live. Borrowed the albums from Romford library and haven't heard them since. His version of Lord Franklin is unsurpassed. At the end of the second gig he said "thanks to those who listened and for those who didn't, thanks for your money". What a star.

[@peterfriedman2830]

So great to get a comment here from anyone with fond first-hand memories of Nic's 70s gigs.

[@rerenaissance7487]

As a bit of a folky (more than a bit sometimes) it was just there in my head and heart that Penguin Eggs, with its purity, was the greatest folk album of all time. Bit of a shocker when "Mark & Lard" as they were then on Radio 2 played it all on their show one time in a feature dedicated to the greatest albums of all time. Turned out everybody who had an opinion on the matter said it was the greatest folk album of all time. Nice that Stewart Lee is so praising, with his usual candour that if he'd realised it was "folk" he probably wouldn't have bought it. But yes, maybe it is one of the greatest albums of all time. Of course, Nic Jones was more than just the one album. I saw him late 70s and early 80s, just before the crash. He really was that special to watch, but it was his sheer heart as much as his playing. Like Vin Garbutt, just a deeply moral soul.

[@peterfriedman2830]

There's so much to Penguin eggs that it seriously rewards regular revisits. Some of the material is relentlessly bleak and depressing which is definitely not my cup of tea, and yet it is so viscerally powerful that even 'not really wanting to listen to that kind of thing' is for some strange reason simply never quite enough of a deterrent to stop me listening to the entire darned album, again and again, and again. I place this album up there with Bridget St John's 'Jumblequeen', Dave Ellis's 'Album' and Dick Gaughan's 'Handful of Earth' as being among my favourite albums of all time, which is strange because my other two favourites are definitely not folk, namely Bowie's 'Hunky Dory' and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the moon.

[@allancopland1768]

Just awesome.

[@peterfriedman2830]

Agreed!

[@peterbashford9262]

Not many days go by without me pulling up a Nic track, he never fails to amaze!

[@peterfriedman2830]

I imagine that I must be one of the very few who feel that although Nic's wonderfully unique guitar sound is responsible for his reputation, his extraordinary vocal capabilities nonetheless get far less attention and acclaim than they deserve. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6HTZmmta7mWqLc

[@peterbashford9262]

@@peterfriedman2830 Nooo! I don't think so, he was a wonderful interpreter of folk song with a distinct voice which made many of the songs he sang his own, and many singers today still use his versions, but his guitar playing was just something else!

[@peterfriedman2830]

@@peterbashford9262 I've always been struggling to get my head around why Nick has always felt his own guitar skills were so limited. We do know that they were strongly influenced by John Martyn's work and you can hear that the specific aspects of John's playing that Nic was picking up were the particular things that John had, in turn, picked up from Bert Jansch. If I listen to another important Martyn-influenced guitarist (even more directly in this case, she was essentially John's protege) Bridget St. John, I can actually hear a much broader range of techniques than Nic's, but like him, it's all rhythm and no solos. I think this highlights what Nic was dissatisfied with. He had taken something very specific and Bert-derived from John and developed and ultimately absolutely perfected it almost beyond recognition. It was all rhythm and no solos. It is quite possibly the best steel string acoustic rhythmic treatment ever. But Nic had never really got the chance to branch out beyond it when he had the skills, something which I am quite sure he would have easily been able to, before the crash. Consequently, when it comes to talking about his own guitar skills, you never hear anything from Nic but utter derision and dismissal. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipjOp42MotWpg7s

[@peterbashford9262]

@@peterfriedman2830 I don't feel Martyn was much of an influence, and you are right about his giving Bridget some help. Although a rock/pop guitarist as in the film you will find Hank Marvin was a huge influence on Jansch, Martyn, Clapton, Page etc. For nic you maybe can also go back a bit further and listen to Davy Graham who was influenced by folk, jazz and both Indian and moroccan music, especially the way Nic plucks the strings so fiercly like a sitar player which I would guess he got from Graham. I also agree if it wasn't for the accident Nic would have started to branch out. Sadly he never really got the recognition outisde of the folk clubs as British folk had moved from an English base into psychodelia and folk rock, we will never know. I spoke with Julia a few years ago and his memory was to fragile to have any recollection of where he might have been thinking to change or not. I don't know about you, but when ever I lsiten to him a smile comes on my face as he starts to play.

[@peterfriedman2830]

@@peterbashford9262 I actually agree with your opinion about the limited 'extent' of the Martyn influence (it was Nic himself who has mentioned John as an influence). I had looked into this because my friend Dave (who is known for having been strongly influenced by Bert and who had shared at least one gig with Nic in the distant past: he was for some reason not at all impressed with Nic, something I can't imagine at all, maybe Nic had a bad gig that day) who had surprised me by saying that he (Dave) was also influenced by John. I am not very knowledgeable about Bert: can you hear any of his influences upon Nic? I think it may have been Solid Air that inspired all of these 'post Folk Revival' acoustic guitarists, but because that album was released in1973 I am not sure that fits in with Nic's timeline. But certainly Nic's unique plucking technique, even if it wass inspired by John's, is a very perfect and different thing in itself.

[@radharcanna]

I bought ‘Penguin Eggs’ when I was 19 and still listen to it. It’s one of those classic albums that’s as fresh today as it was forty years ago. There isn’t one bad song on it. An amazing mix of voice and guitar. Long may we listen to this superb album and to Nick’s other recordings when they eventually become available.

[@Famdoc1000]

I, too, still have, and listen to, my original copy of Penguin Eggs.

[@user-nh3th5cx9n]

Nic jones the most unique and special guitar virtuoso… and I figured out some of his tunings. I’ll never share them!

[@edmundcoyle364]

Great artist.

[@squamish4244]

I love folk music, and I can't believe I haven't heard of this guy until now. I found out about him when searching for Canadee-i-o as performed by Dylan...arranged by Nic Jones, I find out :P

[@Trollificusv2]

Good Lord, shocking that this has gotten so little recognition in almost 2 years! And it's a shame people who really want to praise him feel like they have to make excuses for his work being folk music. Yeah, we're impressed with how cool you are, but that isn't relevant to helping bring his music back, or helping him. Going to get the CDs if I can confirm some money actually will go to him.

[@rhythmace1]

I really think you interpreted Stuart Lee's comment wrongly (I didn't hear any other comments in this clip that you could be referring to). He wasn't suggesting he *is* cool, I'm quite certain he was saying that at that time he was too beholden to what would be seen as being uncool, which is of course common among young people, who usually haven't yet gained full confidence in their identity and tastes. Alternatively, he could have meant that he simply did/does not like folk music in general (which is a perfectly legitimate personal preference, of course), and that knowing the album was folk would have prevented him believing it was worth giving a chance. Either way, I didn't think he was making excuses for it now, in any way.

[@scotsmanship4987]

I know it's kind of a trade secret but I really want to know how he managed to setup his guitar to support his BbFBbFBbC tuning without buzzing strings. I bought a guitar especially for his style and it can get tricky to find the sweet spot.

[@peterfriedman2830]

There's a deliberate signature distinct kind of buzziness you can hear that he was obviously actually going for by keeping the two thickest strings tuned low, but all his thin strings always ring out perfectly clear and buzz-free all along the fretboard.

[@BeaRobertsArtist]

I was so in love with Nic ...... I think all the lasses were LOL.

[@peterfriedman2830]

Did you ever go to one of his gigs?

[@MrCarterbrandon]

The bar at the Old House folk club in Birmingham was next to the 'stage'. I remember walking back from it, looking at the audience as he sang 'Annachie Gordon', and every single female one was utterly lovelorn!

[@anne40hillpiggott30]

❤

[@numberg8238]

Heard Canna-dee-i-o properly for the first time at the peak of a really nice acid trip one day ... If I had died then, I would have died happy.

[@peterfriedman2830]

The 'sister piece' to Canadee-I-O at least as far as guitar ideas go, is probably "Billy don't you weep for me." from the album Game, Set, match: kzbin.info/www/bejne/any0XnWwpbd7h6M

[@numberg8238]

@@peterfriedman2830 Thanks man, I'll check it out

[@numberg8238]

@@peterfriedman2830 Yaman, 2 sides of the same coin

[@numberg8238]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/o4LFmWqLg6iNmsU

[@robertbarnettguitar]

I’d kill to see the full footage of him recording Canadee-I-O. How special is that?

[@peterfriedman2830]

AI will deliver this and it will be scarily good. There is enough 'training data'.

[@Majnun74]

Reynard the Fox!🦊

[@peterfriedman2830]

?

[@pierstheoneandonly]

Anais Non and that damn Joanna Newsome woman-child-with-a-candy-in-her-cheek wail; I've even seen guys essaying it. Like so much music now which presumes to self-identify as 'folk', it has nothing to do with actual folk music or the tradition. The tradition can be taken to new places, sure, but first know a particle of the tradition. Playing your own dirges unplugged doesn't confer some kind of entitlement to take your place with so many of the artists being mentioned here.

[@peterfriedman2830]

ShireLad, I admit that to devotees like us of the iconic pioneers of the folk revival of decades ago, some of these new voices and their material seem to occupy a different universe: maybe not to our taste, maybe not fitting our definition of folk and not seeming fit for any kind of comparison with those we see as the worthy champions of a musical genre and generation that we wholeheartedly love and respect. But that doesn't mean that these new voices aren't giving a new generation something they want, something that they feel has some kind of connection to a world and a moment in time where cacophonous distortion, amplifiers, synthesizers and autotuned voices are not the only way to make a noise that some are prepared to call music. Nic Jones might not have a name that you might want to be mentioned in the same breath as Anais Mitchell, but if he is not to be forgotten altogether, then someone is going need to bring his songs to a new generation and although their voice might not measure up to the expectations of anyone from Nic's generation, if they are popular with anyone (and they certainly are) then this bodes well for something that the likes of us would not want to permanently consign to oblivion, simply because we don't share contemporary tastes.

[@paddymeboy]

His guitar style is distinctive, but it's not unique. As I believe he has admitted himself, the style was first developed by Martin Carthy. He makes great use of it, though, arguably even better than Carthy.

[@peterfriedman2830]

A discussion about the relationship between Carthy and Jones's playing? That's well worth exploring way beyond anything I can bring to it. Carthy says that hearing Jones made him consider having a 'lighter touch', something which is absolutely hilarious for several reasons: I can't recall hearing anything at all in Carthy's subsequent playing (which I heard live) which sounds in the least bit 'lighter' and besides, the thing Nic is most famous for, Canadee-i-o, gives a characteristic 'heavy' signature to Nic's playing, with more attack and percussiveness, combined with a deliberate employment of the natural 'buzzier' tone of the thicker strings, which he gets by using a low key tuning, (and rich 'contrastiness' of this with the higher notes) so the latter things seem so far at odds with wanting to use Nic's playing as inspiration for a 'lighter touch' seems either Martin being mischievously playful, or just a reflection upon the extent to which Nic had drawn Martin's ear to Nic's 'attention to detail' in terms of just how meticulously 'structured' Nic's use of tone was, where 'lightness' might be something that Martin was using as a metaphor for Nic's greater 'sensitivity' as far as tone structure was concerned.

[@musik102]

I love Nic BUT his singing voice was hardly unique as he was clearly drawing on Martin Carthy AND his guitar style was clearly heavily influenced by Bert Jansch.

[@peterfriedman2830]

As far as guitar style was concerned, I know for a fact that Nic was more directly influenced by John Martyn (as was the case with the likes of Martyn's protege Bridget St. John and many other notable contemporary guitarists) so the issue is probably just as much about weighing up the influence of Jansch upon Martyn as it is of Jansch's influence upon Jones. As far as Nic's voice was concerned, whilst any comparisons with and potential influences of Carthy are certainly well worth taking into account, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that Nic Jones brought something very considerable to his singing performances that made many of them entirely his own. Example? I can clearly hear some Carthy in this one, but also a whole lot more Jones. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6HTZmmta7mWqLc .

[@musik102]

@@peterfriedman2830 Rubbish! And, Bert was John's biggest guitar influence! And, no Martin Cathy and Nic wouldn't sound anything like he does.

[@peterfriedman2830]

@@musik102 I must confess that I derived the "comparative strength of John Martyn's influence on Nic" claim rather indirectly, but it was inspired (perhaps mistakenly on my part) by my friend Dave kzbin.info/www/bejne/r33JmYOteNOAhbs (another well-regarded guitarist of that time) who had at least once shared the same gig with Nic and had only recently confided to me that John Martyn was also an influence on him (i.e., on Dave) despite the fact that for the last 40 years all Dave has mentioned to me in that regard was Bert (I see Nic has claimed John Martyn as an influence and I mentioned to Dave that Nic, Bridget, and Dave could be viewed as Martyn's 'descendants', but just like you, I would not be at all surprised if Dave would nonetheless see and hear Bert as being by far the stronger influence on Nic, simply because Dave says he definitely can hear Bert's influence on John (which is how this whole subject came up in discussion with him). Someone needs to ask Nic about who was the greater influence, but upon reflection, in all credit to your response, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out to be Bert after all. Apologies for failing to have given you a detailed basis for my views on this. Also, I wasn't trying to draw any comparison between Nic and Bert's voices, rather instead between Nic's and Martin Carthy's. Dave is obviously much more of a fan of Bert, but I am an unrepentant devotee of Nic's voice, which I find just as impressive as Nic's guitar playing.

[@musik102]

Well, in he NicJones Documentary, Roger Bucknall describes Nic's style of sliding up and down on the lower while playing melodies on the upper strings as being unique to Nic BUT surely Nic derived his style from Bert. For example, listen to Bert's take on "The First Time Ever I saw Your face".

[@peterfriedman2830]

@@musik102 I don't know if you know this (it's quite a while since I saw the documentary so I can't recall if this is covered in it) but Nic is extremely skeptical and scathingly disparaging of the guitar skills that he had at the peak of his career. I personally think this is solely due to the fact that he set the bar ridiculously high, namely Django and Django's 'successor' Diz Disley the latter of whom he got to know personally (and so did I, many years later). Within Nic's own genre-niche of acoustic folk guitar, his sound was arguably ultimately more distinctive than Jansch, Carthy or Martyn, not because he had a greater breadth or depth of technique (he certainly did not, this is where his self-deprecation turns out to be accurate) but in a way for the precisely opposite reason: he had instead crafted a very narrow range of very specific techniques which were 'optimized for distinctiveness' which I will name as "The Nic Jones snappy ping' and 'The Nic Jones low-action bass strings burr' as evidenced on Canadee-i-o. The 'proof' (at least in Nic's mind) that he was 'hopeless' as a guitarist (his words) was the fact that he found himself using this narrow range of techniques (including just about all the other elements of the guitar treatment on that track) on song after song in his sets. He felt this reflected the very limited extent of his development as a guitarist and today he very much envies the much wider creative scope evident in the work of his idols and contemporaries. But however realistic that comparison might be, it ignores several other things: it wasn't just his guitar that happened to be an important instrument with potential for further development, it was also his voice: at the time Ralph McTell was seen as having been the most prominent 'crossover voice' (breaking through into what was then the broader 'pop' marketplace, if you discount Gilbert O'Sullivan, who seems to have been in a genre all his own and ditto for different reasons, Pentangle, Steeleye Span and ditto even Mike Oldfield) but Nic's voice had certainly shown a chameleon-like adaptive capability over the years which, coupled with occasional glimpses of a deep reservoir of rich timbres and expressive sensitivity, held unmistakable promise (at the time) of offering possibilities of developing further distinctiveness when coupled with that of his guitar playing. Another skill which repays delving into his recording history is his re-working of trad songs. He would somehow hear 'catchy' possibilities in very raw old folk material which for some reason only he could find a way to bring out. He's still with us, but in my view, we lost a whole lot more than a wonderfully pingy guitar sound on the day of that fateful crash.