The Nice-ification of Zen

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Hardcore Zen

Hardcore Zen

Күн бұрын

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@lutra-lutra
@lutra-lutra 5 ай бұрын
I'm so happy I'm not the only one who hates the idea of zen as a form of therapy and the attitude "here are my conditions and demands that the whole world has to accept and follow"
@nivia9174
@nivia9174 4 ай бұрын
The attachment to personal history is the most difficult obstacle. Zen “tough love” deals with this stupendously.
@JimTempleman
@JimTempleman 6 ай бұрын
We are starting to reach the point where many people will get offended whenever they are given something challenging to do.
@praveenb9048
@praveenb9048 6 ай бұрын
Global warming has something to do with the snowflakes getting offended when the sun comes out
@big-baby-buddha
@big-baby-buddha 6 ай бұрын
I, for one, am perfectly capable of being offended without something challenging to do. Good day, Sir!
@CaptMang
@CaptMang 6 ай бұрын
@@big-baby-buddha 🤣this comment got me good.
@EmileZoloft
@EmileZoloft 6 ай бұрын
4:01 Like respecting his vows?
@JimTempleman
@JimTempleman 6 ай бұрын
@@EmileZoloft In terms of the basics, first follow the Buddhist precepts (Brad has covered these in other broadcasts). Vows are applied extensively in Zen. Shohaku Okumura's (2012) book: "Living by vow: a practical introduction to eight essential Zen chants and texts" is a valuable reference.
@blackbird5634
@blackbird5634 4 ай бұрын
One of my math teachers was a bitter misanthrope who didn't have a kind word for anyone, but her personality and conduct towards people didn't change the properties of mathematics. 1+1 still does, and always will equal 2.
@big-baby-buddha
@big-baby-buddha 6 ай бұрын
The Function of a Zen Center From a talk by Joko Beck What I want to talk about today is the function of a Zen Center. In a general way we can say that the function of a Zen Center is to support practice: of course that's true. But we have a lot of illusions about Zen Centers, as we do about teachers. And one thing we tend to think is that a Zen center is a place that should be very nice for me - in other words, it should be non-threatening - I think a good center should be quite threatening at times. It is not the function of a center to take care of your comfort or your social life. By that I don’t mean that we should not have social functions - I think they’re great - but they are not the primary function of a center. A Zen Center’s function is not to provide people with a social life. It’s not necessarily supposed to make them feel good, and it’s not supposed to make them feel special. A center is primarily a powerful tool to assist us in waking up. As a sangha practicing at a center, yes, we need to support each other, but the nature of that support may not be exactly the kind of support that is often seen in an office. You know, a girl’s boyfriend leaves her - “Oh, you poor thing! Why you know, when my boyfriend left me...” and off we go. There’s a “we’re all victims in this together” attitude, which is not support. The more we practice well, the less of that fake kind of support is what is met at a good center. It should be a place that gives us support, yes, but also challenges us; and in that sense we're all teachers of one another. Some of the most powerful teachings at a center have nothing to do with the teacher; sometimes the teaching is from another person, coming directly from that person's experience. To be honest, to be aware of what real practice is, and to share it with others - this is what makes a center a different kind of place to be.
@HardcoreZen
@HardcoreZen 6 ай бұрын
Thank you! That's great! Where did you find that? I may want to quote it in a book.
@Teller3448
@Teller3448 6 ай бұрын
"There’s a “we’re all victims in this together” attitude, which is not support." Buddhism does see all people as victims...victims of Samsara. In other words...victims primarily of ourselves. By 'Buddhism' I mean as it was originally established by its founder...not the distortions and corruptions invented centuries later. This is quite different from Christianity where this world and this life are viewed as gifts from God.
@TheJedynak
@TheJedynak 6 ай бұрын
Hitting can be useful only when done very skilfully and in specific situations, not on regular basis. And given how many bad teachers are around (as we know from Brad's videos) I think it is better you can't do it in the West.
@blackbird5634
@blackbird5634 6 ай бұрын
@@TheJedynak Yes hitting will get you hit back here in the US. We don't tolerate that kind of abuse from anyone.
@sleepyslop
@sleepyslop 5 ай бұрын
@@HardcoreZen Here's a full(er) version. Source is unclear: The Function of a Zen Center from a talk by Joko Beck What I want to talk about today is the function of a Zen Center. In a general way we can say that it is to support practice; of course that’s true. But we have a lot of illusions about Zen Centers as we do about teachers. And one thing we tend to think is that a Zen Center is a place that should be very nice for me - in other words, it should be non-threatening (laughs). I think a good center should be quite threatening at times! It is not the function of a center to take care of your comfort or your social life. By that I don’t mean that we should not have social events - I think they’re great - but they are not the primary function of a center. A Zen Center’s function is not to provide people with social life. It is not necessarily supposed to make them feel good, and it’s not supposed to make them feel special. A center is primarily a powerful tool to assist us in waking up. As a sangha practicing at a center, yes, we need to support each other, but the nature of that support may not be exactly the kind of support that is often seen in an office. You know, a girl’s boyfriend leaves her - “oh you poor thing! Why you know, when my boyfriend left me….” (laughter) and off we go! There is a “we’re all victims in this together” attitude which is not support. The more we practice, well, the less of that fake kind of support is what is met at a good center. It should be a place then that gives us support, yes, but also challenges us, and in that sense we’re all teachers of one another. Some of the most powerful teachings at a Zen Center have nothing to do with the teacher; sometimes the teaching is from another person, coming directly from that person’s experience. To be honest, to be aware of what real practice is, and to share it with others - this is what makes a center a different kind of place to be. Sadly enough, Zen Centers tend to be somewhat ego-perpetuating: we want them to be bigger, better, more important that the other guy’s center, certainly! There are very subtle ego currents that can circulate in a Zen Center, as in any other organization if we are not especially careful. And some thoughts on the sangha: one point is crucial - the longer people have been practicing, the less important the outward role should be. And for that reason I don’t want people who have been practicing for a long time to assume that they are always going to be monitors - sometimes, yes, of course, but the more senior the student, the more I want their influence to be felt through their practice, and through their willingness not to seem important; and to let the newer students begin to assume some of the outwardly conspicuous positions. The mark of senior students is to be working when no one else knows they’re there. I see people working in the Center office at odd hours; sometimes I come back from shopping and they’re working hard. That’s a sign of mature practice, getting the job done and keeping our own importance out of it. Personally, I’m trying to go that way by downplaying the tremendous importance given to the role of teacher. And I want this to apply to all of the older students. So if you feel you are not getting to do what you usually do, GREAT! Then you have something nice to practice with. Another mark of a good Zen Center is that it shakes all of us up; it is not the way we want it in our pictures. So, in our upset, what we get back to then, is the basis of practice - which is, as near as I can put it into words, to assume more and more an observer stance in our life. By that I mean that everything in our life will continue to take place - the problems, the emotional difficulties, the pleasant days, the ups and downs, which are what human life consists of - but it is the ability not to get caught - to enjoy what is happening when it is “good”, to have equanimity when it is “bad” and to observe it all, which is the continuing work. The mark of maturing practice is simply the ability, more and more and more, to notice what is going on and not be caught by it. Easy to talk about, but probably 15 to 20 years of hard practice are needed before we are like that a good bit of the time. ** And that is not the final stage. When there is no object, no person, no event, no thing in the world with which I identify, by which I’m caught - when there is no object and no observing self - then there is a flip into what, if you wish to give it a name, is the enlightened state. I have never known anyone whom I felt had accomplished that, but some persons have done well and, if you are lucky enough to encounter such a person, you sense the difference in one who is not caught by life (needing it, craving something or someone, insisting that life be a certain way) - You notice that such a person is at peace and free. These are the people who are a healing and beneficent influence on any life that is near them. They don’t have to do anything - the healing comes from the way they are. That transformation is what we want from our practice. We are more than lucky to have such an opportunity in this lifetime. Let’s take advantage of it and do our very best.
@alpiffero
@alpiffero 6 ай бұрын
Thanks to you, today I've learned that there's someone who hears the intro from Satisfaction and actually thinks that's a saxophone
@HardcoreZen
@HardcoreZen 6 ай бұрын
I don't know if anyone ever thought that was a sax. But at the time ppl were not accustomed to hearing fuzz tone guitars, so I imagine lots of ppl didn't know what that sound was.
@daledheyalef
@daledheyalef 6 ай бұрын
I love the Three Stooges comparison lol. Thanks for that. I will never get that image out of my head now
@tommyharmon214
@tommyharmon214 6 ай бұрын
Ziggy is a Zen master.
@sawtoothiandi
@sawtoothiandi 6 ай бұрын
''everyone's got an ideology, til they get punched in the face..'' - Tike Myson 🤷‍♀
@big-baby-buddha
@big-baby-buddha 6 ай бұрын
🖖😂😂👍
@pajamawilliams9847
@pajamawilliams9847 4 ай бұрын
Brad, i really appreciate your viewpoints on these subjects. it has the taste of classical zen tradition and this is difficult to find in the US. that's it, i'm opening a zen dojo in my garage. put some of the punk back in zen. dunno how many of your followers are actually punks, but there's definitely no kid gloves in the punk scene (at least in the crusty train-hopping squatter scenes I ran in), where it's 'talk shit, get hit'.
@dr.jeffreyzacko-smith324
@dr.jeffreyzacko-smith324 6 ай бұрын
Zen teachers are essentially educators … and as an educator I can attest to the fact that almost all of today’s students manifest what you describe here. I’m more of a “tough love” teacher too, and am better for it because that’s the way I was educated and raised.
@Teller3448
@Teller3448 6 ай бұрын
"Zen teachers are essentially educators" More like trainers...like you would train seals. No I dont mean Navy Seals.
@dr.jeffreyzacko-smith324
@dr.jeffreyzacko-smith324 6 ай бұрын
@@Teller3448 Go troll elsewhere. No one cares here.
@Teller3448
@Teller3448 6 ай бұрын
@@dr.jeffreyzacko-smith324 I'm serious...they really are trainers! An educator is an information dispenser. Zen insight isnt made out of information.
@EricJohnson-c4z
@EricJohnson-c4z 6 ай бұрын
I like it when people are kind, whether it be a Zen teacher or who ever. Zen teachers should be appropriate and kind.
@chojnygrind13
@chojnygrind13 6 ай бұрын
Expecting reality and people to be the way you want it to be is big part of suffering in my view. On the other hand you are free to find teacher that "feels right" to you.
@zensukai
@zensukai 6 ай бұрын
And what is the definition of kind? We each see this character differently, so to have a universal definition just causing more suffering.
@ricklannis6244
@ricklannis6244 2 ай бұрын
I don't know, seems like having preferences kinda flies in the face of the of core of what Buddhism stands for.
@danielremete4214
@danielremete4214 6 ай бұрын
Kyosaku!!!! One of my deepest connecting with my great and honorable master was through ranzaku. Which is a hardcore version of kyosaku (stronger and more hits on the shoulders) This "danger" you mention is important in practice, until you have fear to loose something, this danger is there! Great video! Thanks Brad
@EvanBerry.
@EvanBerry. 6 ай бұрын
Brad, you said that at the beginning of Tim McCarthy's class, you weren't comfortable with the violent stories. What is it that ultimately changed your mind and allowed you to commit to Zen it in spite of those stories?
@ThePathOfZen
@ThePathOfZen 6 ай бұрын
Excellent question, Brad. Is it because you don't know what zen is about and want to cover that up with "Zen tough love"? Hitting, punching and slapping is only a display of ones own ignorance. Brad, want to know why Zen in the west sucks? Go look in the mirror for the answer
@HardcoreZen
@HardcoreZen 6 ай бұрын
@@ThePathOfZen Whoa! You certainly know all there is to know about Zen. No reason to stay here then!
@HardcoreZen
@HardcoreZen 6 ай бұрын
I quickly realized that my first Zen teacher was not going to hit me with a stick, or slap me. I got a lot out of the zazen practice. The fear I felt was mostly the fear of having my ego challenged. I saw that this was not a rational fear.
@EvanBerry.
@EvanBerry. 6 ай бұрын
@@HardcoreZen Thank you for your answer, Brad. Even if I know a fear is irrational, that sometimes doesn't make it any easier to let it go, so thank goodness for zazen.
@SageBlackthorn
@SageBlackthorn 6 ай бұрын
Here is one of my favorite excerpts that I think is relevant to this topic, from Paul Graham's blog, titled "What You Can't Say" on social taboos and getting caught in the middle of what he calls "moral fashion trends", how they arise from social or political power struggles, and how to detect them when you stumble across them: "In every period of history, there seem to have been labels that got applied to statements to shoot them down before anyone had a chance to ask if they were true or not. "Blasphemy", "sacrilege", and "heresy" were such labels for a good part of western history, as in more recent times "indecent", "improper", and "unamerican" have been. By now these labels have lost their sting. They always do. By now they're mostly used ironically. But in their time, they had real force. The word "defeatist", for example, has no particular political connotations now. But in Germany in 1917 it was a weapon, used by Ludendorff in a purge of those who favored a negotiated peace. At the start of World War II it was used extensively by Churchill and his supporters to silence their opponents. In 1940, any argument against Churchill's aggressive policy was "defeatist". Was it right or wrong? Ideally, no one got far enough to ask that. We have such labels today, of course, quite a lot of them, from the all-purpose "inappropriate" to the dreaded "divisive." In any period, it should be easy to figure out what such labels are, simply by looking at what people call ideas they disagree with besides untrue. When a politician says his opponent is mistaken, that's a straightforward criticism, but when he attacks a statement as "divisive" or "racially insensitive" instead of arguing that it's false, we should start paying attention." Source: paulgraham.com/say.html It was a helpful read for me, along with one of his other entries: "How To Disagree" (paulgraham.com/disagree.html). But ya', "traumatized" is a term that has been latched on to and over-used. Other terms are getting over used and misused, and just like "Defeatist" will eventually loose their impact, be ignored and no longer taken seriously. Which, honestly, will make life worse for people who really are dealing with actual physical and mental trauma. But the pendulum continues to swing irrevocably from one extreme in society to the other as much as I wish the world would calm down and settle and balance somewhere in the middle where people could calmly and rationally ask themselves "Even if I don't like this, even if I don't agree with what was said, could this actually be true?"
@Teller3448
@Teller3448 6 ай бұрын
"In 1940, any argument against Churchill's aggressive policy was "defeatist". Was it right or wrong? Ideally, no one got far enough to ask that." Outstanding comment!
@tinadeemc8728
@tinadeemc8728 6 ай бұрын
Just finished sesshin to find both Brad AND Jack have posted new videos to refill my head with thoughts! Woot woot! 🎉
@george221999
@george221999 6 ай бұрын
The most significant communication achieved with touching
@brokeboyswagger666
@brokeboyswagger666 6 ай бұрын
Will you ever do a talk or book signing in florida?
@HardcoreZen
@HardcoreZen 6 ай бұрын
If I get invited I’ll go. I was there a few years ago at the invitation of a zen place in Coco Beach.
@rhobot75
@rhobot75 6 ай бұрын
This may or may not kind of go with today's talk. I suffer from thwarted expectations in practicing Zen because, I have to admit, I am very motivated to participate by the thought of making new friends, forging new connections. I guess some people go to church to worship their God and don't care about being social. Some people go to the Zen center to do the Zen and are not concerned with meeting people. I am not one of these people. I want to meet and be friends with people who think like I do and, frankly, I can do all the volunteering in the world and go to all the pick-up garbage days and volunteer at the art center and I can join MeetUp groups and et cetera but that doesn't mean I'm going to meet people who meditate or who are into the Buddhism stuff. I am trying to not do it anymore but for years I was trying to do two things at the same time: practice zazen, learn about Buddhism, and also make friends. I am having to give up on the making friends part. Hearing this talk reminded me I have ulterior motives.
@HardcoreZen
@HardcoreZen 6 ай бұрын
Nothing wrong with that. I never made many friends through Zen, myself. But maybe that's just me.
@ErikDornes
@ErikDornes 6 ай бұрын
I dont think you have to give up on meeting people through Zen, just avoid clinging to that as the main reason for going there. After all, Buddha himself praised friendships. From the Upaddha Sutra: "Ven. Ananda went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to the Blessed One, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, Ven. Ananda said to the Blessed One, “This is half of the holy life, lord: admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie.” “Don’t say that, Ananda. Don’t say that. Admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life. When a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, he can be expected to develop & pursue the noble eightfold path.”
@joeg3950
@joeg3950 6 ай бұрын
I used the marx brothers as my ideal for writing about a certain Zen teacher. It got the place laughing, and they still remember to this day. Good times, noodle salad. Viva Ziggy!
@EricGoebelbecker
@EricGoebelbecker 6 ай бұрын
Is this the "get off my zen lawn!" channel now?
@michigandersea3485
@michigandersea3485 5 ай бұрын
It’s been that for a long time lol
@hansenmarc
@hansenmarc 6 ай бұрын
Slapping? How about chopping off a finger? “Gutei raised his finger whenever he was asked a question about Zen. A boy attendant began to imitate him in this way. When a visitor asked the boy what his master had preached about, the boy raised his finger. Gutei heard about the boy's mischief, seized him and cut off his finger with a knife. As the boy screamed and ran out of the room, Gutei called to him. When the boy turned his head to Gutei, Gutei raised up his own finger. In that instant the boy was enlightened.”
@taigenetsudo4273
@taigenetsudo4273 6 ай бұрын
Several years ago, I was visiting a large, well known zen institution in California to visit my teacher. In the dokusan room they still had a kyosaku on the altar. He explained the reason for its discontinued use there because of the increasing cultural sensitivity of students a decade or two back from then. He was still happy to hit me with it on the shoulders so I could have the genuine experience of it. He said, you know, it's kind of a shame that they misunderstood this and stopped using it. Fast forward to 2020"s and they've come for the core of the teaching too, oh well 🤷🏻
@Teller3448
@Teller3448 6 ай бұрын
"Fast forward to 2020"s and they've come for the core of the teaching too..." Everything now is sacrificed to the gods of personal-preference.
@JimTempleman
@JimTempleman 6 ай бұрын
Call your proposed video: "The Three Sages."
@thomasrutledge5941
@thomasrutledge5941 6 ай бұрын
This is the best comment, very good! =D
@shokuchideirdrecarrigan7402
@shokuchideirdrecarrigan7402 3 ай бұрын
Trauma, safe spaces, trigger warnings, etc-the psychotherapification of Zen.
@johncombs312
@johncombs312 6 ай бұрын
I love this. I've been saying a similar thing for a long time. Some how Zen Buddhist have the idea that Zen is all nice nice. There's a need for every amount of force under the sun. Have 5 kids and you'll understand that really quickly. Right action for example can be a kind word or a punch in the face. Depends on the situation. Zen encompasses AI that's necessary or else it wouldn't be Zen.
@ThePathOfZen
@ThePathOfZen 6 ай бұрын
Monstrous! You need to go back to Zen 101.
@pajamawilliams9847
@pajamawilliams9847 4 ай бұрын
necessary being the key word. i was in a pawn shop where there was a woman being very mean to a child of about 4, standing next to me in line. she looked over and saw me watching so I said with eye contact and a calm but firm voice "you need to be gentler with the child. she's very little". the woman had a stricken look and started making excuses for the need to 'teach discipline' while she avoided eye contact with me. I remained silent until she stopped talking and then just repeated, a little softer "she's just little." the woman softened to the child and left shortly after. who knows for how long. although i did consider putting her face through the plate glass of the jewelry counter, i don't know it would have done the child any favors.
@johncombs312
@johncombs312 4 ай бұрын
@@pajamawilliams9847 yes unfortunately children become the avenue to vent life's frustrations many times. Usually that's what's going on when you experience something like that. I feel sorry for that child. The mother too. She must have some heavy burdens herself. Too bad that we can't all just see what we need to see without the hardship of having to learn it with many casualties. Sorry that you were also a victim of that woman's burdens. I guess and now me as well.
@marymidkiff7846
@marymidkiff7846 6 ай бұрын
As a fellow Midwestern Gen Xer keep on keeping it real 😊
@marcmeinzer8859
@marcmeinzer8859 6 ай бұрын
At the Zendo I used to frequent mediators were routinely struck with the kyosaku stick on the shoulders while performing seated mediation but only if they requested it by performing gasho to the monk who walked around holding the encouragement stick.
@marcmeinzer8859
@marcmeinzer8859 6 ай бұрын
Correction: meditation not mediation.
@StopFear
@StopFear 6 ай бұрын
Thank you. This is an insightful story. I noticed that I learned a bunch of things from watching KZbin videos where players just play. I observe their fingers and listen to the sound. No explaining. Not an ideal method, but it works. Alternatively something like Theravada Buddhism and their teachings , which can be related to Zen are much more precise and more rational.
@kieranjohnston7550
@kieranjohnston7550 6 ай бұрын
Your talks are fantastic but I have to add that your peripherals and backgrounds are greatly appreciated. Your wife working in the background is such a relaxing pastoral scene. Ziggy adds warmth. The dry-ish desert vegetation is great to see for someone who lives in the tropics. Thanks for everything, Brad.
@not-one-not-two
@not-one-not-two 6 ай бұрын
I have just read your book zen wrapped in karma and sin & Zen. I learnt a lot thans! Did you get back together with your wife? Are you going to write anymore on relationships etc?
@mxvega1097
@mxvega1097 6 ай бұрын
I would have thought the practice of seeking enlightenment and ego death narrowed the field a little. But now I see, if Zen is regarded as a bit like therapy, just with tea lights, tatami mats, and the hegemony of beige, then yeah, that seems like the "California Filter" at work. People can get weird if they think they have purchased a service, like the teacher has a reliable quantum of Enlightenment to exchange and all they have to do is listen to your pity party for hours. Holy moly. Life's too short to waste time on that.
@Teller3448
@Teller3448 6 ай бұрын
"hegemony of beige" Good line there!
@fhoniemcphonsen8987
@fhoniemcphonsen8987 6 ай бұрын
Stooge Zen. Awesome 😊
@jn4073
@jn4073 6 ай бұрын
Hey Brad! Hey Brad! Pull my whiskers! Nyuk! Nyuk! 😁
@yggdasil
@yggdasil 6 ай бұрын
great video!
@philippecloutier7989
@philippecloutier7989 6 ай бұрын
If your entire life is a sesshin, and the universe is a great teacher, the keisaku does get used every once in a while.
@JordanREALLYreally
@JordanREALLYreally 6 ай бұрын
Endless debates at centers about treatment. People throwing out the baby with the bath water because they felt a teacher's tone was.... a "tone" tantamount to getting involutarily smacked with the stick in the middle of meditaiton. I'm guilty of it too. I've heard of a master "recently" slamming someone against the wall because they were distracting everyone in the sesshin acting like they were dying because they had a cold. Master grabs the guy out of kinhin, slams him against the wall, says, "People are dying. You have a cold." Cold man runs out into the dark and snow. They fetch him. @-hours of crying and hugging and talking. Next day the man with the deadly cold is sitting straight and awake, like a rock. Dangerous skillful means, but WOW! Thanks for taking on this topic.
@Spudcore
@Spudcore 6 ай бұрын
This thing of crying trauma, as you put it, seems like a pretty extreme form of attachment. I see no benefit in identifying so strongly with one's own negative past experiences. If you feel your trauma is part of your identity, then you are not here or now. P.S. It sounds like the guy who freaked out when you touched his shoulder could have really used a good slap in the face!
@revdrjon
@revdrjon 6 ай бұрын
For some reason, i can just hear you covering The Mountain Goats' Scotch Grove...
@revdrjon
@revdrjon 6 ай бұрын
Oh, and i think the USAnian version of the Boy Who Cried Wolf is the Free Speech Principle of Not Crying Fire In A Packed Theater...
@EtienneEgger
@EtienneEgger 6 ай бұрын
Bring back the danger to the zen training! (inspired by the introduction to the song "A.U.M." by the band "Archspire" - "Bring back the danger to the music")... could be a funny video title!
@Teller3448
@Teller3448 6 ай бұрын
"the Zen centers being run for commercial purposes are afraid to lose customers" This is something that started in China with the invention of 'transferable merit'. The idea that you can rescue your ancestors from the torments of Buddhist hells by making cash donations to a Buddhist temple and saying a few prayers to gain merit...which was then transferred to your great-grandparents. This was unknown in India where karma is thought to be strictly personal and non-transferable.
@lani0
@lani0 6 ай бұрын
it's just a matter of time before the output of the commercial training establishments form the majority of the population of the zen world and soon everybody-HAS-to-be-nice and the customer-is-always-right values crowd out the rest .... sorta like bad money driving out the good ...
@SphericalShades
@SphericalShades 6 ай бұрын
Quick Zen question And Answer!! In zazen, our hand posture resting together, can i put my right hand above the left one or no, ive seen roshi placed his Right Hand below the left one in zazen, is the visa versa not allowed
@zensukai
@zensukai 6 ай бұрын
In Soto Zen it is the left hand on top of the right hand. But if you have a situation that does not allow that, then do your best to adjust. But traditionally it is left over right.
@seachd2268
@seachd2268 6 ай бұрын
If it was written somewhere that the Buddha said that the only way to nirvana was by holding your hands in a certain way then I would definitely take note.
@zensukai
@zensukai 6 ай бұрын
@@seachd2268 Hmm. I wa snot talking about the Buddha, I was speaking in relation to the Soto Zen tradition, which is left hand held by the right hand. Tibetans which are more close to Indian Buddhism alter the hands based on whether you are a man or woman. So each tradition is different.
@seachd2268
@seachd2268 6 ай бұрын
@@zensukai No worries, and actually I was not commenting on your comment. I was replying to the original poster. and yes you are right 'traditional' ways can be different. To be honest I have sat in meditation with various groups for nearly half a century. I tend to prefer left over right. and no-one has even commented or took umbrage, so i am not sure it really matters that much, but for others it maybe a sign of ego to not do it the groups way... or conformity depending on which perspective one takes.
@zensukai
@zensukai 6 ай бұрын
@@seachd2268 Ahh, thanks for the clarification. =]
@StopFear
@StopFear 6 ай бұрын
I have a suggestion as someone who mostly agrees with your video and someone who isn’t as experienced as you with zen. I think you should not mock other people with voices. I agree that some people are genuinely ridiculous and need to be made fun of. But some may genuinely not deserve mockery. It also shows some insecurity about you if you mock people by funny voices too much. I only say this because I myself used to do this a lot because I knew some people found it funny, then I realized I was insecure and that’s what made me make fun of people.
@paulengel4925
@paulengel4925 6 ай бұрын
So, do nice zen?
@JamesLewisTucker
@JamesLewisTucker 6 ай бұрын
@@paulengel4925I see you missed the point entirely…on purpose I hope
@gregwallace552
@gregwallace552 6 ай бұрын
I think American Zen needs to bring back the keisaku.
@HardcoreZen
@HardcoreZen 6 ай бұрын
Spare the keisaku, spoil the monk!
@ErikDornes
@ErikDornes 6 ай бұрын
I thought you had to ask for the keisaku to receive it during zazen
@HardcoreZen
@HardcoreZen 6 ай бұрын
@@ErikDornes That's the norm in most places these days. It wasn't always that way & There are some places where they hit you with the stick without you asking for it.
@gregwallace552
@gregwallace552 6 ай бұрын
@@HardcoreZen Suzuki Roshi sometimes used it on students who didn't request it. It's mentioned in Crooked Cucumber.
@MyBenevolentCat
@MyBenevolentCat 6 ай бұрын
Parts of my life, like anyone else, have been difficult, painful. When i began sitting zazen, it was hell. Especially when sitting with others. I'm glad i stuck with it, both Zen practice and Zazen. They've helped me learn how to turn the pain of life into the fuel to continue. Isn't one underlying trait found in all living beings in nature their hardiness? Any life found in nature. From animals to plants to bacteria and whatnot else. They're all hardy in their own ways. Somehow. When buddhist students, or anyone is mollycoddled excessively, it will most likely prevent their potential for strength and growth. Of course, its no good to be mean or cruel just because. But i feel that promoting hardiness is being lost. We could use more of it, because seeing how politics and the world stage is playing out these days scares me quite a bit. - Why did Devo name themselves "Devo?"
@wladddkn1517
@wladddkn1517 6 ай бұрын
About that "danger" in a Zen teaching... What can you say about The Buddha:s words that any Buddhist abode must be a safe place for everybody?
@kriseikenbery112
@kriseikenbery112 6 ай бұрын
Good for the wolf!
@Teller3448
@Teller3448 6 ай бұрын
"A lot of the old koans sound like 'Three Stooges' routines" Yes its very physical...and why is that? Why does the Zen tradition place such a high value on physicality instead of verbal explanations? I would trace it back to Nagarjuna's teaching that all ontological statements are false. So if you cant say anything about ontology, and there are no longer any objectives to talk about....whats left? The only things left are actions...tapping your staff on the floor, raising one finger, shouting meaningless words, throwing your whisk at other monks, tweaking noses left and right. What else can you do...just sit there like a dope?
@limbiclove9487
@limbiclove9487 6 ай бұрын
Trauma is a diagnosis not a posturing to manipulate others. Thanks Brad.
@screenwritingprofessor7346
@screenwritingprofessor7346 6 ай бұрын
I wish I knew you wanted to make Three Stooges videos when we were both in LA. I've day.... Nyuck nyuck nyuck
@HardcoreZen
@HardcoreZen 6 ай бұрын
It would be based on the Stooge film "Violent is the Word for Curly."
@kemosabe168
@kemosabe168 6 ай бұрын
Good ranting as always
@Diomedes99
@Diomedes99 6 ай бұрын
I like the videos, but there's definitely no student teacher relationship. Everyone should meditate, and it can be therapeutic. I dont think your zen teacher should be your therapist though. You need to be doing a lot on your own in order for the meditation to be successful , including doing some deep self work and therapy if you have big issues mentally
@winwinnington1647
@winwinnington1647 6 ай бұрын
It may be possible that there are teachers free enough from personal ego that they are able to deliver the exact response that a student needs to push them beyond their own small self but the potential for teachers tainted by even small defilements to misuse the notion of raw zen teaching methods is so great that it should probably be taken off the table for good despite all the babies out there that the teacher may want to slap.
@benrusher581
@benrusher581 6 ай бұрын
If you're dealing with people regularly in fairly intimate circumstances complicated stuff is gonna come up. Its very easy to end up with misunderstanding and confusion. Zen communities are no different. Waking up and growing up are not one and the same.
@HigherSofia
@HigherSofia 6 ай бұрын
HAHAHA! The look she gave as you said ‘Labouring in the fields’ - Careful now ;)
@haroldcampos9661
@haroldcampos9661 6 ай бұрын
So there was a wolf?
@lani0
@lani0 6 ай бұрын
american keisaku - invisible, doesn't hurt,but takes one point off your credit score ....?
@pajamawilliams9847
@pajamawilliams9847 4 ай бұрын
american keisaku - you get canceled.
@elzoog
@elzoog 6 ай бұрын
Tim McCarthy poured beer on my head and kicked me out of his house.
@HardcoreZen
@HardcoreZen 6 ай бұрын
Did he?
@elzoog
@elzoog 6 ай бұрын
@@HardcoreZen Yes, you weren't there when it happened? It was when he cut himself working at one of his restaurant jobs and I was hanging out, overstaying my welcome.
@HardcoreZen
@HardcoreZen 6 ай бұрын
@@elzoog I don't remember that incident. But my memory sucks.
@elzoog
@elzoog 6 ай бұрын
@@HardcoreZen Maybe you weren't there when it happened then. Otherwise, you would probably remember it.
@isrealsaba
@isrealsaba 5 ай бұрын
Huang Po was, rather, Lin Chi's teacher, not student.
@larysaistomina6849
@larysaistomina6849 6 ай бұрын
Huang-po was the teacher of Rinzai, not his student.
@HardcoreZen
@HardcoreZen 6 ай бұрын
Correct. I got the order confused.
@TheJedynak
@TheJedynak 6 ай бұрын
A healthy individual when slapped would defend themselves. Many ppl practicing zen would not do it, suppressing their ego imagining they "trespass" it.
@haroldcampos9661
@haroldcampos9661 6 ай бұрын
Personally, I never felt like I needed therapy after reading your book. In fact I read your book in therapy and it was like an escape from that model, with the pills and the therapy sessions that felt like a brainwashing or an exorcism lol But anything that is analytical has the possibility to create more questions. Some people who get into philosophy can start to ask really stupid questions.
@cobdenbastiat3814
@cobdenbastiat3814 6 ай бұрын
8:02 woah, wait a second... Huangbo (Obaku) was Linji's master, not his student! That's like you hitting NIshijima Roshi.... 😏
@ThePathOfZen
@ThePathOfZen 6 ай бұрын
Have you read Nishijima biography? Lots of shenanigans with that one. Brad knows what I mean. Death bed dharma transmission with no witnesses. Brad, why not just admit you got used because of your connections. Some Japanese guy wanted to grow his influence and you got caught in the web.
@zensukai
@zensukai 6 ай бұрын
@@ThePathOfZen Dharma transmission is between the teacher and student, it is not a celebration for all to see. So now sure what you are talking about.
@cobdenbastiat3814
@cobdenbastiat3814 6 ай бұрын
@@ThePathOfZen 🥱
@ThePathOfZen
@ThePathOfZen 6 ай бұрын
@@zensukai That is completely nonsensical. Lots of evil things can happen, and have, with the idea of what you are suggesting. Go research Philip kapleau and the transmission that never happened.
@HardcoreZen
@HardcoreZen 6 ай бұрын
@@ThePathOfZen What the hell are you talking about? Some other Nishijima apparently!
@hammersaw3135
@hammersaw3135 6 ай бұрын
Its just like skateboarding, now everybody needs helmets and pads, and is afraid of getting a bloodied elbow or a broken spinal column.
@haroldcampos9661
@haroldcampos9661 6 ай бұрын
Your mom has a broken spinal column
@jhhjyjkkkjgfjjk
@jhhjyjkkkjgfjjk 6 ай бұрын
Don't mind him, Brad. The one who commented might not even know that you were part of a band before. 👍
@haroldcampos9661
@haroldcampos9661 6 ай бұрын
Don’t let life slap you and beat you up, get sore
@MisterMeow-vt8kl
@MisterMeow-vt8kl 6 ай бұрын
Moe, Larry, CHEESE!
@haroldcampos9661
@haroldcampos9661 6 ай бұрын
Sometimes we’re marketable sometimes we’re a screaming bloody mess. But also; he who wears bad shoes isn’t always poor. The true virtue of the lowly is to be a disguise for those with the power. Means we’re not so alone with our suffering, just not able to sit it in the same room. They watch you suffer just so they can study you. Little brother always learns from big brothers’ mistakes. But the watered down version of little brother isn’t always real, he’s just a punk and an illusion. Once little brother becomes big brother, he doesn’t know what to do. What’s he supposed to do? Watch you? Get out of here… in philosophy it’s been well documented, how they steal political meaning. You are not a rebel, you are a communist sheep. Stuff like that. But then being a true rebel has a value placed on it… and to some unsuspecting fool, that’s the jacket on his back that someone is gonna steal. But then it loses it’s magical powers. After a while noone knows anymore why they’re revving their harley. And that’s good! For them. So go be a blubbering loser. Because the world DOESN’T care.
@haroldcampos9661
@haroldcampos9661 6 ай бұрын
I’d hate to have your job but I also have that annoying little person inside me that wants to complain about everything, because dad wasn’t around and I’m the one at home still. And that’s hellish too. My family is from a communist country, and I wasn’t exactly born to win. I live in a sort of ghetto for other people like me. It’s turning into a greener grass situation too. I didn’t expect to see all my friends fuck it up but noone was safe… we were expected to go out and figure it out. People like to take every wrong turn. Lol! My dad has created 7 different families and stuck to none. That shit affects you… now he’s a rapper? Lol hope he gets those millions. At some point they told me “hey have you accepted that you’re crazy” and “just take all these pills and get a government check” then you says “I’ll take the pills” and they still won’t give you any money! Saying you’re fine. They want you to buy a gun instead. Or join the military lol It’s like guys who says “wow punk rock works for me, idk why your life is in disorder” no punk rock doesn’t work for shit. I’m listening to a song about guys who were sniffing glue like it’s going out of style and banded together to scream at their parents, and go live in a squat full of drugged out minors. I thought zen was sort of a disorganized way of viewing the world, but not necessarily incorrect. I didn’t read “hardcore zen” because I have my shit together lol Or because I care about a lot of societys rules. My peers hate me! Sometimes I’m admittedly a mess! I am anything but fun. I have hated education ever since they made us read of mice and men in grade 4, and I refused because it wasn’t a book for children. They were just getting us read for the towers and the war… and everyone said “okay!” But not me. I was the stupid one! The ignorant one, who refused the gifts of reading the books in the box the white guy brought into our teachers’ room. Outwardly I am the stupid one. But I also have my wisdom moments… I embrace being an individual, with no shame. “And then your dreams die!” Yeah, I’ll bet… But I’m still tough in my own way. Noone ever dares to cry on my fucking shoulder. I won’t act disgusted but I might tell them the truth because I have almost no filter left.
@barefootarts737
@barefootarts737 6 ай бұрын
I love reading so much Zen material. For its artistry, its spontaneity, and its anti-intellectual approach. But every Zen service (only US experiences) comes off as tight-lipped and intellectual. Preoccupied with the 'way things are done', and codified behavior. There is not courage, or naked inquiry. I try to Meditate and study Zen. But my mentors are more like Shaman, and Pagans.
@Teller3448
@Teller3448 6 ай бұрын
"Preoccupied with the 'way things are done', and codified behavior." Yes its called structure....the alternative is to just wander around all day like a dirty dis-connected hippy.
@barefootarts737
@barefootarts737 6 ай бұрын
@@Teller3448 What is the utility of such an observation? Or does it hang in the air as a triviality?
@Teller3448
@Teller3448 6 ай бұрын
@@barefootarts737 Life needs structure...for the same reason a train needs a track.
@barefootarts737
@barefootarts737 6 ай бұрын
@@Teller3448 Thanks for stating the obvious. I'm no critic of structure. Are black and white abstractions interesting to you?
@Teller3448
@Teller3448 6 ай бұрын
@@barefootarts737 Not obvious at all...much of the western world functions without any structure in their life. The monastic life is all structure from morning til night.
@Teller3448
@Teller3448 6 ай бұрын
"Eat Sleep Sit...there's a lot of slapping, hitting and beating up in there" Yes the actual assaults on new monks taking place at Eiheiji Temple has nothing to do with Buddhism and everything to do with establishing a hierarchy of obedience...for the same reason the military does the same thing. The leadership is trying to weed out any novice who will not blindly obey all orders.
@StopFear
@StopFear 6 ай бұрын
Actually , I have read 2 -3 zen books plus watched any videos about zen. My impression is that a lot of it is idealized by people new to zen. I guess mainly by the people from the English speaking world. Zen often seems to be very distant from original Buddha’s teachings and many of their short stories and parables are absolutely nonsensical. It is as if it is intentionally lacking precision so that any follower could interpret it in any way they wanted and call it “zen”. In that sense it is abuse.
@Teller3448
@Teller3448 6 ай бұрын
"many of their short stories and parables are absolutely nonsensical." Yes but the nonsense is only there to test the students...to see if they can recognize it for what it is and react accordingly. A good teacher will always mix truth with nonsense to make it difficult to tell which is which.
@dbuck1964
@dbuck1964 6 ай бұрын
Hahaha yeah that’s not how it works.
@theXaint
@theXaint 6 ай бұрын
Damn, I've read: The Nietzsche-fication of Zen. 🤭
@marcussteudel9960
@marcussteudel9960 6 ай бұрын
That sounds fun, lets start a sect!
@olly3231
@olly3231 6 ай бұрын
yikes man
@kemosabe168
@kemosabe168 6 ай бұрын
Aggressive behavior is nono
@johnfish5994
@johnfish5994 6 ай бұрын
The therapy model is there to preserve distance through role play, it's like what you mentioned about Nishijima Roshi characterizing some koan practice as "the student likes to be defeated by the teacher", just less macho and more squishy.
@psyche599
@psyche599 5 ай бұрын
Is there any reason you think American zen is imitating therapy besides the "therapists can't hit their clients"? By that reasoning, Navy boot camp instructors are imitating therapists.
@Teller3448
@Teller3448 6 ай бұрын
"The problem is when Zen comes to America...YOU CANT DO THAT!" You could turn that into a song based on a John Lennon tune from 'A Hard Day's Night'. I got something to say that might 'cause you pain If I catch your silly ass whining about your trauma again I'm gonna let you down And leave you flat Because I told you before Oh, you can't do that It's the second time I caught you screaming wokey nonsense at the top of your lungs Do I have to tell you one more time, its getting grim I think I'll let you down Thats right I'm not your Dad (not your Dad never will be Dad) Because I've told you before Oh, you can't do that
@zenjukai
@zenjukai 6 ай бұрын
DEI has embedded itself into American Zen for sure -- the truth doesn't care about your feelings. Which is sad really, as one then looses so much these teachings have to offer.
@colonelbrando
@colonelbrando 6 ай бұрын
Libertarian Zen, im getting more depressed with these videos. The deep enlightenment of writing people off and being a bad teacher. Maybe put on a red tie and start complaining about women next Brad, your subs will explode. All experience is a teacher, even a disappointing teacher.
@paulengel4925
@paulengel4925 6 ай бұрын
So, do nice zen
@JamesLewisTucker
@JamesLewisTucker 6 ай бұрын
@@paulengel4925aw you already said that in another comment. Try something original baby
@JamesLewisTucker
@JamesLewisTucker 6 ай бұрын
I sadly agree with you. If Zen cannot evolve, like it has done many times before, we will be stuck and it will die
@benhorner8430
@benhorner8430 6 ай бұрын
@@JamesLewisTucker I really don't see how zen could die... what even is it? :)
@eric7964
@eric7964 6 ай бұрын
Brad seems to be entering his Bill Maher phase. Or maybe its just a case of getting old and ornery.
@black_eagle
@black_eagle 6 ай бұрын
Or maybe it's a case of getting older and wiser...
@JamesLewisTucker
@JamesLewisTucker 6 ай бұрын
Totally agree. I think these talks have gotten a bit ornery not n”older and wiser”. I can see Brad is forgetting stories he’s told in the past about being uncomfortable about violent stories. I can see he’s forgetting key phrases from Dogen about physical acts to encourage realization…I feel like a “real” practicing zen person would look inward and see why…instead he is looking out. It’s been disappointing to watch.
@tegeuscromis8947
@tegeuscromis8947 6 ай бұрын
My first thought was, "his Fox News host" stage, but yeah, you're closer. It's kind of a bummer, I used to think he was the most interesting Zen teacher out there, but this shtick is getting less and less interesting the more he sounds like my uncle yelling at the TV.
@JamesLewisTucker
@JamesLewisTucker 6 ай бұрын
@@tegeuscromis8947 i thought so too. He was really promising. I even defended him when older zen teachers would question him.
@AirSandFire
@AirSandFire 6 ай бұрын
One can either be woke, or awakened, can't be both.
@Victor-vx9nu
@Victor-vx9nu 6 ай бұрын
for a moment I thought I had read the denazification of zen LMAO
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