The Numen mysteries and their legacy

#eldenring #eldenringlore #numen #marika #erdtree
This video attempts to form a coherent theory of the Numen, Who they were, what they did, and their link to the Erdtree and other sacred trees.
Music used:
Nier Automata OST - Keichi Okabe
Planescape Torment OST - Mark Morgan
Xenosaga Episode 2 OST - Yuki Kajiura
Resonance of Fate OST - Kohei Tanaka, Motoi Sakuraba

[@TroyColey]

Certified Elden Ring Classic

[@The808basshead]

I think IDing the schism in the Numen is your best insight yet! It adds an even richer background to Marika's potential doubts around the greater will and the erdtree by the end. How could you not have mixed emotions about a split amongst your own people, especially if she was around to experience it?

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

What's even wierder is how the Marika's hammer says it came from the land of the numen, so did she bring it with her? Has she been alive that long? If so, she would have experienced the split first-hand. Reminds me of the Githzerai and Githyanki from Planescape.

[@TheCronesEye]

Another excellent addition to the Elden Conspiracy Files! You’re preparing quite the dossier here. Anticipating more great ideas from your inquisitive mind! 😊👍🥂

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

Thanks! I'm thinking of making a kind of part 2 on this subject. I think there is more to be said.

[@AlbertusSalvatierra]

lol a friend of mine and I have been doing a similar analysis. We joke that “it’s all Numen” - starting with Uhl and eventually Uld, to the Nox, ancestral followers, the Stargazers, the Capital nobility, the snowfields, Sellia and Ordina, the demigods and Empyreans, the Sun Capital, the statues of elegantly clothed humanoids in Farum Azula…. And so on and so forth. It really seems like Numen were the ancestors of humanity, if not some of the population as there are other “humans” that have “in-human” origins. Architecture really comes in handy.

[@pyritepanx]

Whenever I thought of the uhl dynasty i always thought of mohg and a relation to blood (even though he tries to make a completely different dynasty), so it’s really cool to see you paint a clearer picture of what the uhl dynasty really was. Love your work!👍

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

Thanks! The Uhl dynasty was pretty massive. It's quite ominous that they woshipped trees, yet are no longer around, (in any recognizeable form).

[@sidewaysfcs0718]

Farum Azula actually does share some architectural similarity with all the Eternal Cities, if you ignore the different color palette, in addition to the tree symbology on those stone slabs. While the Numen/Nox were split between early Tree (Great Tree) worship and Star worship, Farum Azula was most likely the Seat of the Sun referenced in the Sun Realm Shield, which we can also find equipped in the hands of beastmen of Farum Azula that are resurrected by Deathroot. Farum Azula, the Eternal Cities probably shared similar fates, being destroyed in a violent cataclysm / being sunken underground. It's possible that Marika and her new Erdtree worshippers wanted to take over the previous Ancient Dragon culture that controlled the Elden Ring (an older version found in Farum), and also wanted to snuff out the heretics, the Nox, who worshipped completely different forces. There are also dead giveaways that Farum Azula's partial destruction and the scattering of all the Farum ruins all over the Lands Between is a bit more recent than "since time immemorial" would suggest, the ruins of Farum crashed down AFTER the road network of the Lands Between was constructed, including the final version of the road network, that contains the clover-like Elden Ring sigil tiles. This same road network also connects to the above-surface positions of the Eternal Cities of Nokron and Nokstella where they used to sit, and also to Stormveil. Ironically, Astel's involvement in the Nox's fate was most likely a direct order from Marika, we can still find meteors being summoned today right outside Leyndell, which give rise to Falingstar Beasts. And finally, during the Shattering War, it was probably Marika that ordered the destruction/sinking of the old Numen/Nox quarter of Leyndell, the present Nameless Eternal City, as this is where the Black Knife Assassins came from. This destruction was most likelt a retalliation for the assassination of Godwyn.

[@therogueserafim271]

The Sun Realm Shield has to be one of the most puzzling items in the game. It's the only mention of the "Seat of the Sun" in the entire game. I think to this date I've never seen a lore hunter mention it.

[@KnightLincoln]

Nox Night Maiden's dagger (unobtainable) has similar jambija-like design shared with erdsteel dagger of Golden Order nobility and perfumers.

[@ChitzenItza42]

TNG intro footage did not go unnoticed. I loved it

[@hansnorleaf]

Love the use of planescape torments soundtrack as background for this topic.

[@MA-go7ee]

Lmao, that intro is so rad. Absolutely spot on impression of 90s conspiracy shows

[@drizlam5827]

Great video. Had the same idea that Nokron and Nokestella were built by the survivors of the Nameless. The teeming masses in those two cities might be a memorial to the devastation of their original city.

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

Yeah, I wouldn't call them "teeming" though.

[@Ciello_]

Very insteresting as always (and good music choice)

[@fierypickles4450]

My god youre amazing. On par as enjoyable as the tarnished archeologist

[@cardgameenjoyer7446]

Huge bearded guy statue is like Moses with his tablet, carrying a. Prophecy

[@Luaeria]

I would like you to dive down these rabbit holes you claimed are beyond the scope of this video, please. Please make long form videos giving me all the answers to all the questions about all the lore. Thank you. 😂🤣 But seriously, though. Utterly brilliant video. I love it. Please Moar sir, please. 🙏🥺🙏🥺🙏🥹🙏🥹

[@arya.n.8252]

It would be cool for a lore discussions podcast in the academy debate parlor to talk about difference lore interpretation

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

I've been thinking about creating a podcast devoted to debating Elden Ring Lore in a semi-serious way.

[@fabrimuch]

Since the Black Knife assassins were said to be Numen women close to Marika, do you think it's possible they were star-worshipping Numen staging an attack against tree-worshipping Numen post split?

[@hansnorleaf]

I would agree with that assessment as the black knives are led by Ranni.

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

It's really hard to say. But evidence suggests they may have come from Ordina (the place where you get the BK armor). If that's the case they may have been fighting for the Haligtree? Just something to think about.

[@Writh811]

This was a very interesting video but I have to disagree with the idea of Farum Azula having any connection to sacred trees. A swirly pattern on a door does not indicate the higher beliefs of a culture in my opinion. When trying to decipher the worship of Farum Azula there are a lot of very direct things that indicate what they believe. For one we know because we are directly told that they worshipped the ancient dragons. That aside all their methods of burial and displaying the dead are actually different version of a funerary ritual called "Sky Burial" where one takes the bodies of the deceased and either puts them on a slab under open sky to be weathered away by the elements and eaten by the birds (lots of hawks in Farum) or they tie the body to a tree or column (the standing corpses). These methods of burial venerate the sky and are believed to keep the land pure (in real world traditions). Then there is the matter of the religious text we find in relating to the beastmen: The Ancient Dragon Prayer Book. We find this book in Farum Azula and it's description reads: "Prayerbook of the capital's ancient dragon cult. A lost tome that never reached the Lands Between." This means it never left Farum so it has nothing to do with Godwyn's Dragon Cult revival in Leyndell, the capital it refers to is Farum Azula the former seat of power in the beastmen's time. To take this point further the Beastman Cleric's in Farum clutch their Gravel Stone Seals and cast incantations of this book. Some beastmen wield weapons imbued with red lightning. Again no holy spells that align with tree imagery or worship. At the heart of Leyndell, a tree worshipping society, is their great tree. At the heart of Farum Azula, a society I posit worshipped the sky and storms, is a tornado. We get indications that this tornado was actually once much larger when we go into the time stitch to fight Placidusax. When we are fighting him in the past the whole distant sky is filled with storm clouds and lighting rains down furiously, the realization is that this tornado at the heart of Farum is "The True Storm" that Nephili mentions once raged long ago. Prior to Placidusax and Farum getting slapped around to crumbling status, Placidusax was Elden Lord. If the dragon is Elden Lord then the vessel of the Elden Ring, his god, would likely live where he lives. Placidusax is described as waiting for his gods return indicating the point of origin is where he is located. Basically, just to get to the point: Placidusax was Elden Lord, Farum Azula was where he and his god reigned, they lived in the sky and the storm they cultivated was the "sacred thing" at the time, meaning Placidusax's god had a similar connection to the True Storm that Marika has to the Erdtree after she gets the Elden Ring. In a Smoughtown video the beastmen's gaining of intelligence and civilization was discussed, how sudden it was for them. This lead me to believe that rather than "grace" Placidusax and his god were handing out sentience. That it likely struck down on them in the form a lighting rather than soft flowing grace. The mural with the statues in Maliketh's arena is likely depicting this: We see the Elden Ring in the sky with what folks often describe as roots but I offer is "graced" lighting. Below we see a girl surrounded by wolves, the goddess calling down the graced lightning that will strike the wolves and make them beastmen. A moment any religion would make depictions of, the most sacred moment in their history. A fellow scholar liked this idea and pointed out to me, that going down the middle of the Elden Ring in the mural appears to be a depiction of Placidusax's Lightning nuke (Gransax's bolt). The tree motiff of the Elden Ring came after Farum Azula fell from power. The Finger-Slayer blade, based on what we experience when we beat the game, is the body of Placidusax's god. When the Numen, attempted to kill the god and seize the Elden Ring for themselves the Elden Beast emerged, turning the god into a weapon to fight them off. The Elden Beast was defeated and the god's weapon shaped body was shatter in the process. The scar on the Elden Beast's body may be a hold over of this battle. This treachery is the sin I think the Numen of the Eternal Cities committed before being banished underground. This is how Marika ends up with the Elden Ring. Which leads to the culling of the Crucible's additional branches to cultivate the one that will become the Erdtree. This may also be why in the beginning everything was "in opposition to the Erdtree" in the early days, it was a blasphemy. But eventually, through slaughter it became dogma. (Edit: I'm sorry about the wall of text and tangent at the end)

[@Lampaluile]

Great content!

[@miketherecliner]

It really is, he's got the perfect voice for this.

[@Xandros999]

With the dragons in the roots, do we think the dragons abandoned earlier practices in favor of tree burial? I think the cliffs near the dragon temple look like they might have been a tree, like the dragon temple was built into a great tree.

[@liamace1107]

15L40 that's jot multiple dragons, it's just Placidusax. Easy to mistake with his multiple heads. The flow of events and influence of the Numen makes so much sense, I didn't piece together the cultural similarities of old Uhl to the astrologers. Felt like one of the few pieces I couldn't quite place historically. Now if anyone can figure out how Melina/ the Gloam Eyed Queen and Faruum Azule fit into things I'll finally be able to stop wondering wtf is going on in the lands between 😂

[@walterlaten7662]

I got my first numen rune and it says the numen are of the same stock as that of miqella idk for sure but it was one of the big ones but never heard of em so i came here

[@miketherecliner]

I went in this generally confused, & I'm leaving slightly more confused 😅😂

[@rodolphofreire8311]

The opening and the tin foil hat hit me hard

[@person3362]

The location of the Nameless Eternal City is odd. The water there seems to imply a sort of flooding, but that water also supplies the Ainsel and Siofra, suggesting that the rivers came after the city was destroyed. The obvious solution would be an aqueduct, but I can’t seem to find any evidence that one ever existed. The Numen area of Leyndell seems to be the most impoverished region of the city, and there is clear evidence of some sort of purge that occurred in those neighborhoods specifically. This does imply some level of discrimination against the Numen during Marika’s reign, especially considering that Leyndell Albinaurics lived in in similar conditions. (Interestingly the neighborhood in which Albinaurics lived shows the most telltale signs of destruction within inner Leyndell.) To me this all implies some shift in power from the Numen to humans(?) after schism and establishment of the Erdtree.

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

This is all really interesting. Because the Uhl did build aqueducts, but they aren't in any position to direct the rivers as they exist today. Also, I completely forgot about the albinaurics in Leyndell, I have to go back there again. Good stuff!

[@ShishouDzukiZaManako]

im pretty sure the lake of rot is in its state because it is a stagnant lake that the runoff from the Haligtree gathers in; pretty sure it had nothing to do with any old practices. also Diallos has a Numen soul... which is hilarious due to his self doubt.

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

Runoff from the Haligtree is an intriguing premise, but it's far to the north. Do you mean the Erdtree? The water that reaches the lake of Rot all comes from a mysterious spring in the unnamed eternal city.

[@ShishouDzukiZaManako]

@@theeldenconspiracy9451 way i was looking at it was that the haligtree is above the rest and would have to drain somewhere; just as you said in a previous video the numen may have sent their dead down river via coffin, the runoff would follow this to the pit that is the lake of rot. but any oops worth making once is worth making twice so the numen could have made a prior pact that resulted in the lake. if there was a bloom down there id 100% go with that... either way i don't know why it ceased here and didn't follow the coffin path. unrelated but the western end of the lake of rot is caked in crystals; with the roof being covered in them with a large stone base supporting them (probably some space rock).

[@ShishouDzukiZaManako]

@@theeldenconspiracy9451 looking at the rot map a second time; the NW corner might be a rot bloom though; the patterning there might be the SW portion of a more developed version of the Caelid bloom.

[@chables74]

Algormancy!

[@manfaceddog9288]

what if the numen schism is linked to the loss of the original great tree / the beginning of the crucible era? In some way if the astrologers cause or set in motion events that cause the destruction of the original great tree and that is what lead to their banishment?

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

That's an interesting theory. We know from the root resin description that the roots in the catacombs used to be connected to the Erdtree. So it looks like the decline of the Greattree has been happening for a very long time.

[@7F0X7]

These are some good, solid theories. However, until the devs actually explain what the hell happened in the lands between from the start to the time we wake up in that church, I won't have any respect for them. I put hundreds of hours into that game, did every difficult boss, including Melania with no frost/bleed, and I feel betrayed. I feel like my time was wasted. Had I known the game's story was non-existent, I just wouldn't have bothered.

[@titchbits1]

Most games just tell you. This one takes scholars and architects to understand which is nice. Not every game needs to be specifically explained.

[@7F0X7]

@@titchbits1 Disagree that lore should literally not be accessible in the game itself and we're supposed to piece it together from nicknames of japanese files and the like. I don't mind putting in the work, but every jot and tittle of the lore should be accessible just by playing it.