The Old World Bretonnia vs Tomb Kings Battle Report

[@recn6149]

This was actually a much better battle report than the one you two did on the miniwargaming page. You just seemed to have so much more fun with this.

[@obsidianwinters5857]

Those knights are beautifully painted; I particularly liked Sir Alph Alegion.

[@wolowizard4441]

It’s so nice seeing Matt’s tomb kings. Growing up with their videos you have a love for their respective armies, mine are his TK, tyranids and necrons. When I get my old world stuff, I’m going to do a month challenge like Matt did when necrons got their revamp.

[@killroy8976]

The new combat resolution means dwarfs are literally never going to break... which I guess is pretty thematic!

[@markysgeeklab8783]

​@@grlmgormakes up for the great initiative and no step up.

[@robbwoodward8607]

One part to note is if you lose combat and your unit strength is doubled you auto break no dice (baring any dwarf special rules) So if you end up in any flanked combats or are whittled down eventually dwarves will break still.

[@elbentzo]

Steve's explanation of combat resultion (47:17) is good, but if you still prefer Matthew's perspective, there is an equivalent method: After losing combat by a margin of X, you roll a leadership test against your *unmodified* leadership. 1. If you fail, you break. 2. If you pass the test, but by less than X, you fall back in good order. 3. If you pass by X or more, you give ground. So in the first combat, Steve lost by 3 and had an unmodified leadership of 6. If he rolls more than 6, he breaks. If he rolls between 4 and 6 (passes, but by a margin of less than 3), he falls back in good order. If he rolls 3 or less, he gives ground. Edit: unmodified means not modified by X, it can be modified by other factors of course.

[@derekgehring2771]

The break down at 42:00 was EXCELLENT and well explained- I never thought about the stepping up supporting attacks being lost as well! Fun batrep

[@GodrockTadaka]

We still thinking that this is correct?

[@bohort]

The number of Brett-Onions in the AI intro is fantastic

[@LinkytheGreat]

That was one heck of a battle. Glad this new edition made it such a back and forth without making it look like a one sided affair after 2 turns

[@sailingsinbad7899]

Yeah after seeing all the reports that came out this weekend (5-6 of them), that's the one thing that strikes me the most. It's full of back and forth, and the game is never called early. Really like that.

[@thelastchaoslord869]

Awesome Work guys. Love seeing Matthew involved and hearing all your plans. Can't wait for more old world!

[@christopherbyrd5818]

Soooo much fun, I havent had this much fun watching a battle report in which someone else appeared to be genuinely having a great time in......I guess, going on 10 years now. I seriously hope this game comes back strong and is here to stay!

[@Ethnarches]

Great battle report guys! Much better than the first one on MWG, probably as you are learning the intricacies of the new rules. Great to see Matt at it with a fantasy army too! This showcased what the Tomb Kings can do much better, feeling better about their power level now.

[@Chrisbo123]

Sooo much nostalgia tingling down my spine right now! I remember starting to watch the MWG WH Fantasy BattlesBatreps back in the days when you guys still had the shop. Those were awesome. Hope to see more stuff like this in the future from all of you guys

[@zlobzor]

Nice report, and good to see the TK being played a little more successfully. Other videos I've seen have completely failed to take into account having to play differently against Brettonians! However, you are making the break tests way more complicated than they need to be. If you roll under modified leadership: Give ground. If you roll under your unmodified: Fall back in good order. If you roll over your leadership: Break. You can explain it the other way round too, if you prefer. :p

[@KnudAutlermann]

What a treat to see Matthew playing a game!! Epic armies and paint jobs...

[@wookieschnitzel7595]

I'm so excited for the old world! But alas...I cannot afford it. But at least I have this channel to satisfy my nostalgic needs!

[@00Kuja00]

You can always use other models. I am planning to buy some Victrix vikings for Marauders. They are cheap and great looking. If GW wants me to play their games they need to look at their price first. ^^*

[@furiyen4890]

My first Mountain Miniatures YT video. Immediately thought - 'They've recruited Epic Voice Guy!'. Subbed.

[@Gartov77]

I might be incorrect, but I believe you are doing the loss of supporting attacks incorrectly. It says specifically "a model cannot fight during a phase in which it stepped forward into the *fighting rank*, regardless of its Initiative." So the models that stepped up would lose their attacks, but the models that replaced those models would be able to make supporting attacks, since they aren't in the fighting rank. Not sure, since obviously the game hasn't fully come out yet

[@bremer1701]

"I cannot go first" is a common misconception . The opponent chooses if he goes first or not and if he chooses the bretonnians to go first, then they still have the blessing.

[@Ethnarches]

Huzzaah! The real and original Warhammer is back!

[@hooliganblack832]

I'm enjoying this but i needed to pause to say that the two of you have probably managed to give the least clear explanation of break tests that will ever exist. Well done! 😂 Right, back to the video.

[@AdamOwczarek]

Suffering through a bad case of the flu, and I really appreciate all the Old World / Fantasy content yall continued to produce!

[@DrCrazyPhenom]

Stiv, hell of a job on the Brettonnians man.

[@Stonehorn]

Awesome, while watching this, I scored the Bret box, the Forces of Fantasy, the Bret Arcane Journal, and the BSB on pegasus!

[@iJasko]

Thanks for the game, great fun! That skeleton unit should have given ground after that round of combat against the Duke and the knights, then the tomb guard would not have been able to charge the knights in the back, though.

[@zergalergaderg]

Hey Steve. One thing I wanted to point out, cause it seems like it makes quite the difference. So, I was watching the battle report that Warhammer + put out, and in it the one guys Duke was in a challenge and even though he killed the guy he was fighting, he still did the rest of his pegasus’ attacks and its stomps cause those seem to still count towards combat rez. Just wanted to point you towards that as that could’ve made a difference for you in this one. Regardless, great batrep and loving the Old World!!!

[@garbagecan755]

An easier way to explain the new morale. You can fail, succeed, or partial succeed. You succeed if you roll under your modified leadership. You fail if you roll over your unmodified leadership. You get a partial success and do the new thing if you roll higher than your modified but lower than your unmodified.

[@jajaxaxa]

If I'm understanding it correctly that's incorrect. Combat res doesn't modify leadership but things like terror or spells do. Therefore rolling over modified leadership does break you (for example rolling 9 on dwarfs when faced with terror which reduces ld by 1). You obviously understand it but it's not as simple to explain. It's basically: Succeed old normal break test -> you hold. fail old normal break test -> you fall back fail with old stubborn -> you break

[@garbagecan755]

@@jajaxaxa I feel like that's being fairly pedantic. There's a reason that we specify when something modifies your leadership characteristic rather than specifying that somebody is modifying your morale check, most people collogially just refer to morale as "leadership" checks because they're a subset of leadership checks. Like if you take my exact post and change only the words "modified leadership" to "morale check" it fits your criteria; I just think it's less grokable for the typical warhammer player. You want to call out the fact that it's the modified version, I.E. combat modifiers. *Edit to add* or "Break test" or whatever they've chosen to call it in this edition, the specific test this is that is post combat rest previously referred to as a morale test in some editions.

[@jajaxaxa]

@@garbagecan755 You're right, it's absolutely pedantic. I was kind of just pointing out that the reason Steve and Matthew were having problems explaining it is because they wanted to explain it correctly to the smallest detail. That's why they were tripping up. As I said, you obviously understand how it works.

[@skipgiblets]

Minute 57, love seeing the new step-up and the implications

[@CacklingGoblinX]

Hmm I like the new give ground thing, makes the battle more fluid.

[@tomyorke3412]

What a blast from the past I remember Matt playing the TK years and years ago

[@RipTore44]

when you indirect fire with a trebuchet do you still remove ballistic skill? I'm getting conflicting information from different channels.

[@JC-gv6sq]

Great battle report guys, I did have 1 question. Is Fear still in the game or did the mechanics for it change? Might have missed it if it was already addressed in the video.

[@j00451]

Please play some Wood Elves with The Old World rules. Love these.

[@SkinkChief]

I love how Steve is such a good sport no matter how the game is going, he just loves it and I love that about him.

[@Na_bro_leon]

Heads-up dudes - from what I saw from the maneuvers page, you can wheel multiple times in a move (you just can't mix maneuvers). And Lumbering makes you close order but also get a free pivot after moving (if you didn't charge/march). So the bone giant (and really any unit) CAN wheel multiple times. Just needs to spend the movement to do it.

[@thomasc6684]

Great to watch, and the armies look excellent. Can’t wait for more Old World. One thing to note is that I’m pretty sure the Duke should have always been issuing challenges, because of his Grail Vow.

[@Alex-dr1ez]

Luka you are a king for that WoW reference

[@andrewrockwell1282]

A big narrative Warhammer campaign! I am so here for it.

[@detorrV2]

Man, you guys really complicated the explanation of the break test. xD Three tiers: rolling under modified Ld, rolling between modified Ld and base Ld, and rolling over base Ld.

[@MountainMiniatures]

lol yup!

[@shadeling6717]

It is good to see some things streamlined and toned down from 8th. Somethings still seem a bit rough for new players or those of us that haven't played in years.

[@Stormbolter83]

Heck yeah baby. This is what we have been waiting for 🎉

[@PsychicalTraumaPL]

1:07:40 actually, all 10 where hit (well, on 4+ anyway 😅). Just because 3" is simply more than 75mm sum of the size of the bases of the archers 😘

[@danc3159]

Combat at 1:12:34 - horsemen vs men at arms. Shouldn't the horsemen have counted as having charged as they followed up after the peasants fell back in good order?

[@camillokamo8950]

I thought the same! Maybe because the distance was too short?

[@Stonehorn]

So glad I was able to spend way too much on all the stuff I wanted! Had to use two different stores, but im good!

[@free4all916]

shout out to Matt: I'm still using your intro video which you made with Dark elf and Skeleton, a decade ago, to welcome new people into the world of fantasy, the only way Warhammer should be played.

[@discovergames7654]

Great looking game. Where did the mat come from?

[@samejia4]

Did skeletons forget to fall back all those times they lost combat and crumbled?

[@joshrowley5995]

Number one Rule I've seen every BatRep fail so far: If you Fall Back in Good Order (or would) but are outnumbered Unit Strength 2 to 1, you Flee. So at the end, both the Knight and the Duke would actually Flee. This is how you break Units in The Old World, yes they can Break via badly failing the Break Test but Leaderships are much higher in this Edition. Just trying to mention since it was done incorrectly but is HUGE for playing the game.

[@WarpstormChronicles]

Cool to see someone with GW Store Opening Dice! I stopped using mine. They were super unlucky and I wondered if there was a weighting issue?

[@CompetentConquest]

I gotta say. The combat resolution is very simple. Roll the dice compared to Ld, fail=flee If you pass, modify the dice by the CR value, if this would cause you to fail, you fall back in good order. That’s it guys, that’s the whole thing, just use the raw dice for the flee test, then modify them for the fallback test.

[@bremer1701]

1:00:00 wont you get close order AND Lance Bonus for combat result? If not i dont see a reason to fight in Lance Formation.

[@LordMacragge31]

you get more models fighting at once thats why

[@bremer1701]

On a Lance with 6 Models you have five fighting. Same as a 5 wide unit

[@LordMacragge31]

@@bremer1701 10 man lance gets 7, 5x2 knights gets 5. Also if you want to run 4+ cavalry units having them all be narrow fronts allows you to fit them on the board, allows for easier multi charging

[@shimuni9213]

Where can i get the tool you are using at 55:20

[@martinalmand4800]

What was the little arrow device Steve used please?

[@kolorytoweoke]

That step up rule for close combat looks like a kind of pain to keep track of.

[@knabseraph]

What kind of basing material is that? Pumice gel? it looks pretty consistent and great

[@MountainMiniatures]

Well sir, these are all 3d printed bases with the texture already on them. Check them out here: miniwargamingforge.com/collections/bases

[@thoughtheglass]

its fascinating how varied the tomb kings range is after all the relases they've ha over the years the bretonians by contrast only have units they had in 5th.

[@TheTurner444]

The voice over for the armies at the start was brilliant 😂.

[@modernskeptic7752]

Why does the chariot make supporting attacks? Doesnt all the "front rank" get to fight?

[@marksalisbury5071]

So the Lance has changed? If I remember correctly, in the last editions the lance increased the number of models the Bretts could bring in without increasing the width of the unit - so a 6-knight lance (1+2+3) would be considered a 3-model wide unit but 5 knights would be considered in combat. So in the Chariot vs Lance + Foot-troops combat all 3 chariots would be in combat vs all 6 knights.

[@seanh2785]

Awesome! Great battle!

[@bobbiboaz9376]

What dice is Steve using?

[@FarseerB1rdy]

Great to see TK being played to their full potential instead of getting stomped every other batrep hahaha

[@jasonwedel3165]

Is there an STL file for the movement trays?

[@michaelmacdonald8656]

Is it possible to 'reserve' move into combat or does it have to be wrote? Thinking about the scorpion. Ps where are all the dispel scrolls? 😂

[@Unaidedfoot]

Super fun battle report! Thanks😀

[@Spacepup18]

Who did the army list voiceover?

[@Fenristhegreat]

A.I.

[@MountainMiniatures]

@@Fenristhegreat VO is George

[@rhodesiancowboy]

Flaming attacks was preventing regeneration abilities on warhammer tv's battle report

[@MountainMiniatures]

Rules specifically say flaming attacks only negate regeneration if the model has the "flammable" rule.

[@MrBlueSleeves]

I'll trust MM over Warhammer channel any day of the week

[@ryanreeson9783]

Loving the return of WFB!

[@TheCoyote808]

Did you guys custom print your own spell cards or are they going to be retail items?

[@lukapavicevic335]

Retail Items! Though you will want to Sleeve them, they are not the BEST quality.

[@TheCoyote808]

​@@lukapavicevic335Oh snap, guess my preorder just got a bit larger. Thanks, Luka!

[@Mahrac126]

I think how stepping up works for Lance Formation might need to be FAQ'd; since all of the models on the sides count as being in base contact, you could argue that it's the guy in the back center that steps up to take any of their places not one of the ones in the second rank.

[@zlobzor]

I've not read the rules. It should work as is, but an FAQ could help stop arguments if people are being silly. You are either removing something "in base contact" or something not in base contact. You lose attacks for removing models not "in base contact". You don't lose any attacks for "base contact" models removed, as it won't have been counted as an attacking model.

[@Yasmirr]

I doubt they way it is played is as intended. Not being able to fight with the second rank with spears when the first rank dies makes no sense

[@fef7500]

@@Yasmirr these rules makes no sense anyway, better mix some of the good stuff with the good old rules (unless it is better explained in the rulebook, but for now on every video i've watched this rule is just painful to watch and nobody knows what's correct)

[@Morendie91]

So a bit confused, in the beginning I was under the impression that instead of rolling to see who goes first, if your bretonnia you can give up your roll and instead get the blessing of the lady. Instead you rolled, rolled again after a tie, then when you lost did blessing of the lady?

[@ilkkapuonti935]

Hi, How many knights can you have in a lance formation? Only six or can you still have max 10 knights?

[@bitemytail]

I've seen a different battle report with 10.

[@benhadaway3322]

Fore the leadership check test for CR on Brackets I would refer to it as Succeed Leadership, Fail Leadership; Pass with Modifiers (middle bracket)

[@patgray5402]

So impetous is worse than frenzy now?

[@robs5707]

So did GW screw up with their battle report and not getting regeneration from the brettonian flaming arrow attacks?

[@infinitedm5396]

So the wh report got it right that the flammable rule prevents Regen. And there's a number of TK units with flammable/dry as dust. I'm wondering if they were going off a slightly different ruleset where the whole army has flammable.

[@sammoshy1240]

Huzzah! This plus managed to order a starter set - sadly no BSB or Damsel but I'll get one eventually!

[@chrishoj5277]

When you were talking Indiana Jones, I took some time to reflect that I’ve been watching you all forever. Ever want a guest dwarf general (to be fair new edition I’d paint something new) to swing through for a game… 🤙📲

[@idbrown937]

What battle mat is that???

[@necroprince2098]

great batrep, something that I think you both missed was the casket giving a 12" aura of +1 to cast for the priest and ALL (friend or foe) bound spells including his own so that may have swung a few casts on the TK side by +1 and got them off, but still very good batrep regardless

[@lukapavicevic335]

The casket only effects OTHER wizards/bound items I believe.

[@necroprince2098]

@@lukapavicevic335 just checked a page view, its any model friend or foe, not other so yea it would effect it. it does say of A not this model so you cannot stack 2 caskets together to get +2 but still would give the inbuilt bound spells to a +4 instead of +3 and makes the hirophant a +5 to cast in range before items so...yea

[@thomaswhite3149]

Only thing better than the paint job on the Knights is the voiceover at the beginning.

[@sannej]

Do Questing Knights re-roll Terror tests too? Also, I am pretty sure that the men-at-arms should have taken a fear check for the Skeleton Cavalry in round 3 - they might have suffered an additional -1 to hit. Cool battle though. I enjoyed it.

[@Cr3at1vem1nd]

55:48 is wrong, all 3 chariots are in base contact with the lance.

[@HyarionCelenar]

This looks really interesting, but I just cannot listen to the ai voice.

[@patgray5402]

This guy is a delight

[@MadSpaceWolfDiary]

Hmm a devil core being the light of the lord in the ark, how interesting. Gold is close to lead... what are its radition blocking properties? Steve may be onto something, maybe minus the future thing.

[@sebita85]

where i can find the old world rules?

[@mkulchar]

I'm confused is this mini wargaming? Or did they separate and this is a new channel?

[@Sandstorm11911]

I cannot imagine that the step up thing should work this way. To me it‘s 10 models who could fight, minus the models that died.

[@dr.v645]

Steve pranking Matt there at the end, poor Matt haha

[@MoonMorslieb]

So awesome! I made a huge order for a Big Tomb Kings Army. Im really excited!❤ thanks for the Battlereport Guys! 1.22.10😂Tomb Three for the Turn Kings!

[@BentJacket]

great report, the fun was infectious.

[@Michael-kb2gk]

Everyone complaining about the ai voice…i liked it and wouldn’t have mind a full coverage in that

[@runar4731]

I love old world so far! But what about fear tests?

[@Luciusthestorms]

I think you have to outnumber to cause fear.

[@runar4731]

Ooooooohhhhh right! Thanks @@Luciusthestorms

[@AdamDavidDunlop]

This edition seems fun. Might have to sell a kidney to get back into Fantasy.

[@randomnerd5807]

great video but I need to say I absolutely despise the dice Steve is using, SKULLS ARE ONES NOT SIXES. It's not really that big of a deal but I still don't like it ):

[@omerZauber]

That movie wasnt called Indiana Jones at all! It is Raiders of The Lost Ark

[@ltctech]

Nice battle but I started to get some motion sickness 15 minutes in with all the camera movement.

[@lucajosephs2921]

I think a good way of explaining after combat could be like passing in blood bowl, order would be Pass Fail with modifier Fail

[@benbiddiss336]

Great battles, looking forward to more! I the only thing I’m not liking so far, is the way step up is being handled . Played fantasy for decades, and one thing that many I’ve played agreed on, was the “feel bad” moment of losing your fighting rank and never being able to swing back.ever… combats, barring bad luck, are won by the person with the higher I, unless they hit something tougher. Step up and being able to fight in 8th was one of its better rules changes. Not happy they’ve back tracked. And it seems to get even messier with things like spears….

[@benbiddiss336]

@@grlmgoras I haven’t played this particular ruleset I can’t say for certain. But based off how pre 8th… things like zombies, skellies etc, there job is to just hold. They aren’t there to dish out damage. Usually such units have a fighty hero in them to dish out damage. It starts becoming a problem, with armies like chaos (who historically have high damage output and tough defences, they butcher armies before the enemy even get to swing.) or dwarves/orcs, who have low I and get killed before swinging. So many games I’ve played where combats are must win every round by the same side. Sure units don’t flee as frequently, so maybe that’s where it’s different enough from previous editions that never being able to roll dice doesnt matter

[@Yurt_enthusiast7]

Don't think (or hope) it's going to be a big problem. High I units generally has low S or few A and AP being generally lower will hopefully lead to fair combats. The fact you get a big bonus to I when charging will help sluggish units a lot. But time will tell if it's true. 8th ed made iniative virtually a useless stat which wasn't good either.

[@akulakorsun159]

I agree, it is really frustrating to not be able to fight back and something that will be greatly missed from 8th.

[@Johnny-Thunder]

Ha! I remember that discussion they had about the Casket of Souls: 'that was inspired by Indiana Jones'. 'No you millennial, that's from the bible!' :D

[@chrisp-yk3jp]

Can matt come back to play some more games in the future? :)