The Outer Circle: The Other Circle Line

A look at the dear departed Outer Circle. The Circle Line that didn’t make it.
For info on the Inner Circle: • The Circle Line Slapfight
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[@Zveebo]

Interesting video - a diagram or map would be a really useful addition to some of your videos like this (appreciate this involves some extra work though!)

[@MartinInBC]

It was screaming for some mapping, wasn't it? The fascinating thing about London's rail systems is how they are so independent of the landform, so the way places are connected by rail is so different to the way places are connected by car, bike or on foot, and maps display that really well.

[@gilles111]

A map would be great. I'm from The Netherlands, I do know a bit of London (thanks to this channel, other KZbinrs and my visits to the city) but the extra details would be very appreciated. The extra work involved would pay back in views and likes.

[@jackmartinleith]

You'll find a good map here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Circle_(London)#/media/File:The_Circle_Routes_of_Victorian_London.png

[@gilles111]

@@jackmartinleith Thank you!

[@DavidJCane]

@@jackmartinleith That's one of mine!

[@johnm2012]

The Outer Circle has been more or less recreated by Overground services. It's still not a single circular route but there are two half circles between Clapham Junction and Highbury & Islington.

[@JamesPetts]

Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel; never ending or beginning, like an ever-spinning reel...

[@new_fone_who_dis]

Interesting videos, plain narration and no silly or dramatic music... subscribed 🙂

[@JagoHazzard]

Thanks!

[@2H80vids]

"Would a service like this be useful?" Now that Londoners(and everyone else) has started using the railways again, I think it's a case of "Build it and they will come." In network the size of London's, the actual destination of trains doesn't seem to matter too much. It's more important to serve various useful places en-route. Any circular service can provide so many separate journey opportunities, it would surely be a guaranteed winner today. But would it just take passengers from other services? And would that be a bad thing? I'm sure a committee could spend many millions on a "feasibility study". 😁

[@c0wqu3u31at3r]

I definitely think a proper circular train would be useful, east-west transport is shocking. I used to live in Catford and visit friends in Clapham, a 24hr bus or train along the south circular would have been so so so so useful.

[@simontay4851]

Of course it would be useful and obviously feasible.

[@nomadMik]

Great to see an old video, featuring the seeds of what's become one of my favourite channels. I suppose the navigation steps were an idea that didn't pan out as a regular feature, but it made sense to try. Sydney's rail network originally had two circles that shared an arc, but one of them, the Bankstown line, got truncated at the tangent of the other, and it's planned to be converted to a metro line. A lot of people miss it going all the way around, but one long-term proposal is for the metro to become an even bigger circle. I hope you'll be around to make a video about it, if that ever happens. 🙂

[@colin.d]

A map would have been handy!

[@1963TOMB]

And I thought that you had to be a magician to travel in the Inner Circle!

[@matthewalbery8827]

nono, you have to be an illusionist to travel in the madjick circle...

[@steeveedee8478]

Jago your vids are compulsive viewing and so well presented. A joy to watch.

[@cd0u50c9]

Your voice is perhaps the most calming and suitable for narration I've heard in quite some time. Amazing content as always, never stop what you're doing!

[@neilmossey]

I didnt know the 3rd platform/track had gone - only saw that here! Thanks for breaking it gently...

[@benjaminchadwick3875]

Great video! As you note, much of the route of the Outer Circle is now on the London Overground, which itself forms a modern-day outer circle. Today's outer circle is a complete loop, and doesn't cheat by following the Inner Circle for any of its route. You can complete the full circle with just one change: on a Sunday you can take a direct train from Clapham Junction to Highbury & Islington via the West and North London lines, then a direct train to Clapham Junction via the East and South London lines. On a weekday, if I understand correctly, the change is slightly more complicated, requiring an out-of-station interchange between Dalston Junction and Dalston Kingsland. So it seems TfL already answered your closing question - yes, an outer circle line would be useful - and went ahead and opened one!

[@HonestMan112]

I'm glad I learnt this after I finished school. "Work out the circumference of the inner circle + outer circle" 😂

[@neilbain8736]

Piece of pi?

[@highpath4776]

@@neilbain8736 Greggs is closed at present.

[@leeclegg2943]

Dont forget to divide those by the distance between Leicester Square and Covent Garden

[@user-pw3tr1xg2x]

Interesting video Jago . I look forward to learning about the Middle Circle !

[@NomadicMScott]

I was a bit confused with all the circles. From someone not from London it might be useful if you could do a basic map ,however crude it would be just to help envision it. But again brilliant video as always.

[@vividblonde]

Love you videos. Normally a Sunday morning staple for me.

[@ankmlord]

I thought it'll be about the overground between H&I and Clapham Junction. Haha. Great vid!

[@mitchellgiffard1978]

Same track as the north London line ran on between Shoreditch high street to Dalston.

[@WilliamHBaird-eq2hp]

My British Grandmother always called the Tube line the INNER CIRCLE when I lived in London W1 (Baker Street Chiltern Court) as a wee Canadian-Born boy in the 1970's. I always giggled at that not knowing that in the Steam era That was the Name!

[@srfurley]

It was still quite widely known by that name then, though not officially for many years.

[@Rog5446]

Many years ago before the overground, when Olympia was only served occasionally by the district branch line from Earl's Court, there used to be a train to and from Olympia and Clapham Junction, during rush hours. This train was not advertised on the time tables and was used by workers at the Post Office building close to Olympia. It was not restricted to post office workers so if you were in the know, you could use the service. It was known as the Kenny Belle.

[@highpath4776]

I knew of it, cannot recall if I attempted to make use of it.

[@ianhelps3749]

I think I remember these trains. Usually a Class 33 with a couple of Mark 1 coaches. Probably the shortest loco hauled service in the UK.

[@cedriclynch]

@@ianhelps3749 I occasionally used to see these trains at Clapham Junction in the 1980s and early 90s. Sometimes also they used a Class 73 locomotive (that could be run from the third rail supply and that also had a diesel engine), sometimes they used a Southern Region diesel-electric multiple unit and sometimes they used one of the diesel-mechanical multiple units built in the 1950s and early 60s. When they were loco-hauled they used some of the coaches that had recently been withdrawn from the London-Weymouth line, with a driver's cab at the opposite end to the loco so they could work as push-pull trains. In 1994 the Clapham Junction-Olympia service was extended to Willesden Junction and started to run all day. This service for the first few years used 1950s/60s DMUs that were from a pool that also operated the Gospel Oak to Barking line.

[@starseedtravel8902]

I love your videos from Australia. They are very interesting.

[@JagoHazzard]

Thank you!

[@highpath4776]

Jago doesnt make videos from australia, I am very confused.

[@likklej8]

In the 1960s you could go direct to Broad Street for Willesden Junct. We trainspotters used to do Willesden Sheds,then go to Liverpool St via Broad St. Where the railway staff let you spot from a taxi ramp that went right into the station.

[@petermoll8309]

It's the one that's always closed - lol. Thanks have been enjoying the videos.

[@nicholaskelly6375]

I remember the last day of Broad Street. It was always my favourite London Terminal. But in its last days it reminded me of a description of an abandoned Roman Temple in Saxon times! As for "Mr Punch's Railway" aka WLER It wasn't the only line that "upset" said Gentleman! As following an incident on the Herne Bay Pier tramway. During which a bonnet purchased by the editor of 'PUNCH' for his good lady got crushed! Well for many years "Mr Punch" was wont to recall the incompetence of the staff on the tramway!

[@marcrotterdam010]

Another great vid and congrats on almost 15,000 subscribers. :D I'm new too, one of your tube videos suddenly popped up while I was watching Cities Skylines stuff, though I follow Geoff Marshall as well. I love the snack sized vids. Really informative and well presented. Would be great to see you do something on the London trams (ie. Kingsway)

[@highpath4776]

From Memory, there was the Middle Circle - Basically the Overground route conecting District and Metropolitan District At Addison Road ( Olympia ), with the Outer Circle a Bigger loop possibly taking the further Willesden Junc Route. Willesden Junc despirately needs the main line station re-instating, after HS2 having a stop there would not slow WC services down significantly for great improvements, not least the erratic Points South to Watford Milton Keynes Northampton Via WLL.

[@robertseaman9680]

Another highly informative video..many thanks..

[@simontaylor4791]

Another quality video thank you

[@amethyst7084]

Great video Jago! Maybe a map to accompany this (and for the video on the 'Middle Circle') would be really help with visualising where the routes used to run. 👍🏾

[@MannyAntipov]

There is also an Outer Circle line route via Latimer Road and Olympia instead of Notting Hill Gate, ran until 1940

[@elizabethspedding1975]

Thank-you that was very interesting.

[@Rog5446]

I used to travel on the North London Line from Willesden to Gospel Oak on the old DC (green) electric units. When passenger services first ran over the West London Extension (erroneously called the West London Line) there used to be an intermediate station between Willesden and Olympia (before Shepherds Bush was built) at North Pole Road called something like St Quintin & Wormwood Scrubs. (a new station at this site was proposed, but never built) I always thought it would have been nice to have a station called North Pole in England.

[@evnejg94]

This channel is tragically underviewed.

[@michaelgreen1515]

Though not that old and not from London I miss Broad Street. My Grandfather used to take me into Liverpool Street and around toward Kew.

[@misterthegeoff9767]

Ah the North Circular of railway lines. Like many other ambitious London projects it fell apart when someone had to inform the planners that there was a South London too.

[@richardc674]

Very nostalgic. I recall in the 1970s traveling on something run by British Rail called the North London Line which ran from Broad street to Richmond via Highbury and Islington, Willesden Junction and Acton. For me it was a very useful semi-circle - but not particularly busy.

[@DavidWilliams-km5xu]

It's all part of the London Overground system now. And can be busy. Also nowadays it's ran like the tube.

[@fromtheend4253]

Wonderfully done ✔

[@seanbonella]

i'm surprised with all them circles you're not dizzy.....ba-dum....dish great again Jago

[@MrSofakinggreat]

I remember travelling to broad street station as a child, just before closure. Very run down, but a useful service to stonebridge, easier than the underground

[@dodgydruid]

I seem to remember there was a push to make a "circle", with a proposed Watford to Uxbridge section which would have swung round London connecting maybe at the Reading-Tonbridge line but at some point pushing towards the Westerham connection, then on to Dunton Green and so forth. It was a fairly good "spider web" sort of plan with trunk routes intersecting and inner and outer circular routes allowing passengers to nimbly circumnavigate London laterally. Like many many plans it was never to really come to fruition and by the time it was revisited it was impossible to do really as building of homes had overtaken availability of permanent way land. Where the A2 intersects the M25 was a fine example for many long years was the "bridge to nowhere" first laid down as part of the original orbital motorway, there was bitter opposition to the inner London orbital motorway and the London perimeter trunk road again this spider web of many inroads junctioned by roads that would go round allowing Londoners to drive to different parts without having to enter central London.

[@alzeNL]

fantastic video - thank you :)

[@davidpeters6536]

I used to work in that building on Queen Victoria Street in 1974. I agree with the others about a map though. Another great video thanks.

[@TheEarlofK]

My route into London in my commuting years was into Liverpool Street (1970s-80s), so I was very familiar with Broad Street which had a frontage that was more impressive than its next door terminus, but sadly suffered a death by a thousand cuts, its platforms being gradually reduced to two and passengers having to walk half a mile along a platform to catch a train, until surprise, surprise, passengers gave-up on it and it became prime redevelopment land; I then wound-up working for one of the numerous city firms that relocated to the new Broadgate development built on it, itself now, ironically, facing redevelopment. I've always thought that London needed a fast and efficient Outer Circle line, it's never really had one; I suppose the new Crossrail line from Shenfield to Reading via Paddington is supposed to replicate it in some respect, but by the time its eventually built people will have probably given-up commuting altogether.

[@Ass_Burgers_Syndrome]

Yeah especially if Zuckerberg gets his way with his metaverse garbage.

[@bnanabelle]

I opened Google maps in another window & jumped around (& got lost once in a while) Thank you for another entertaining tale of the tubes

[@ROCKINGMAN]

When I worked for London Underground, staff spoke of the Circle line as inner circle line which was the service that ran anti-clockwise and outer circle - the service that ran clockwise to indicate direction of travel. This passengers used via Victoria or Kings Cross terminology instead. The outer Circle, you speak of, now used by Overground, is what I thought, in the main, as the old East, South. West and North London lines which formed a loop around London albeit with interchanges.

[@1963TOMB]

The two tracks of the Circle Line are still known as the inner and outer. One blast of the lookout's horn is train on the inner: two blasts is train on the outer. This would only occur in an emergency though as planned maintenance is only carried out in engineering hours when the traction current is off - line safe.

[@jorgedasilva2054]

Recently subbed to you. Great Videos btw very interesting

[@JagoHazzard]

Thanks!

[@davidcousins5493]

You and your circles, getting us all going round in "circles". Interesting history lesson though, even if it did go round in a circle.

[@ianbyford]

a line flowing the m25 may save some people time and stop them going in to London just to come right back out at a different angle

[@sihollett]

Unlikely to travel into London and out currently - most people would go by road when making journeys that would use a railway roughly following the M25. Which just makes such a line more useful - you aren't merely diverting people off one railway and onto another, but encouraging modal shift!

[@highpath4776]

@@sihollett the M25 was part built on the Trackbed of the railway into Staines from the South ? which would have been useful for heathrow.

[@sihollett]

​@@highpath4776 It was the railway into Staines from the North. The bit built on wouldn't have been useful as it would have had to have been rebuilt anyway to use as an airport link, being a low-quality single-track line that's the wrong side of the motorway at Heathrow - and there's nothing stopping the current plans of building a railway alongside the M25 and using the short bit of disused alignment south of the M25 to access the Staines-Windsor line. The bit they preserved (it runs through the M4/M25 junction) between West Drayton and Poyle is very useful for the airport - fuel trains can get off the mainline and pipe their fuel into a depot only about 1km from the airport.

[@wclifton968gameplaystutorials]

An express bus service following the M25 diverting through the towns nearby the M25 may be more useful especially if it doesn't actually go on the M25 but just goes around like. And if it did exist a route number M25c / M25a would probably be used but I do understand that TfL isn't very fond of circular lines especially express bus services which is probably why the 725 was cut short to Croydon and renumbered X25

[@KimonFrousios]

@@wclifton968gameplaystutorials In the same way that a rail London to Edinburgh takes 5hrs and a Megabus can take 12+hrs, a bus going on a long route around the M25, with inevitable traffic jams and who knows how many traffic lights and how much extra distance to avoid driving on the M25 would take half a day to complete a circle, useless to anyone who wants to go anywhere beyond one or two towns over. A rail on the other hand would be much faster and more likely to be used. Though rail fares in the UK are ridiculously high, so there's that too...

[@daveoftheclanburgess]

The North London and West London Lines (and some of the former connections and extensions) are a wonderful illustration of how the needs and wants of London traffic have varied - sometimes in very short order. Who in the 1980s would have seen the created need for the passenger service that Overground has become? The freight from the docks through Dalston had already gone by the 1980s but the freight that used the West London Line extensively in the 1980s and 90s has become second fiddle to the passenger traffic. There are dreams of the 1860s that would be really useful connections now. Marylebone was luckier than Broad St - they were both in the firing line during one of the darkest periods of London's passenger railways. Any freight originating in London had long gone and anything inbound came (and still does come) by road.

[@mjcats2011]

Marylebone survived because Baker St and Paddington reached capacity. Also Marylebone had direct access to a Main Line, something that Broad Street lacked. keeping Broad Street for London Overground services would make absolutely no sense. 86xing Broad Street was the correct thing to do.

[@raakone]

Besides Inner and Outer, and Middle....there was also a Super Outer. But speaking of Inner and Outer...those are also directions on the Circle Line, at one time tickets were printed either with an I or an O, or if the trip was long enough, an E (as in "we don't care which direction you take at this point, either one will do")

[@highpath4776]

I would like the overground to do a proper new outer circle- Crystal Palace- Balham-Clapham Junction- Olympia - Willesden Junction - Highbury-Dalston - ELL. Rather than the butt end terminal platform at Clapham Junction. Also re-instating the proper SLL from Victoria - but new tunnels near london bridge to connect to Liverpool Street and thence the TFL Rail Services north out of Liverpool Street - Clapton to Clapham the Clap Clap service

[@civ27]

Regarding the last question: it's already possible to go from any point of the outer circle to any other point of the outer circle using a maximum of one interchange (using either liverpool st. or dalston junction as an analogue for broad st. works for this), so such a service would seem a bit redundant

[@johnshaw5889]

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. From the age of 10, I would make the trip from Ilford to my Aunt, Uncle & cousin at Brondesbury Park. Ilford to Liverpool Street, then a sort walk to Broad Street, up the stairs to the elevated platform and make sure to get the slow service stopping at Brondesbury Park, rather than the fast one that skipped several stops. The experience in the 60s can be best described as shitty with devastated shack like stations and rolling stock that clanked fit to fall apart. These days I marvel at how well this line has been ressurected and how my cousin and I would trek across London alone or together, not even teenagers... Children are so coddled nowadays, glued to screens and having no real life experience. We had no fear, unlike the present population it would seem. Party on dudes.

[@amethyst7084]

Very interesting documentary. Maybe outlining the original outer circle line on a modern tube map would help contextualize better. Thanks very much for recording this.

[@davidhabert]

It's funny that you mention Broad Street Station, because that it also appeared in a not so famous movie staring Sir Paul McCartney and Sir Ringo Starr. It was called *"Give My Regards to Broad Street"* in 1984 two years before it was closed and torn down in 1986.

[@Glenn1967ful]

Broad St could have had a future with services on the WCML as far as Milton Keynes and later as a terminus for the Overground. There was potential for the station from the mid eighties onwards as passengers numbers increased into London, but it was left to die.

[@mjcats2011]

No, Broad Street could not, would not and should not have a future. It was left to die because it had only 6,000 passenger journeys per week. The NLL is now at capacity and would not be able to take trains from the WCML. Marylebone had potential, Broad St no. Passenger numbers into Broad Street were declining. Services were diverted to North Woolwich. It had no direct access to a main line and would have to use the busy North London Line as far as Camden Road to access the West Coast Main Line. The NLL and the ELL extension are great additions to the network. Broad Street was not needed and still would not be. The money from the land sale has turned Liverpool Street into a great station.

[@rgpeters]

Love your videos, could you do a video about the long-gone Bishopsgate or Bishopsgate Goods?

[@JagoHazzard]

They show up in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2XUgnaapdRrpJI

[@jonathancook4022]

We need a diogram! Wheres Geoff?

[@jackmartinleith]

Your wish is my command: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Circle_(London)#/media/File:The_Circle_Routes_of_Victorian_London.png "Wheres Geoff?" And where's Vicki Pipe? Missing in action?

[@bobo577]

To be fair, The Circle Line has been open at the weekends but that has been my experience. I see the trains alternate between District and Circle line trains.

[@katrinabryce]

I guess you could do an outer circle today by taking the Overground from Clapham Junction to Highbury & Islington, and back going the other way.

[@mastertrams]

I would possibly suggest re-branding the London Overground sections between Highbury & Islington and Clapham Junction as the Outer Circle, and have Overground trains still run there, but it would be nice to have a suburban circle line.

[@sihollett]

They hyped up the circle element when the ELLX bits opened, especially the Clapham Junction branch. Boris even proposed a further out 'R25' off the back of it.

[@mastertrams]

@@sihollett Oh for crying out loud! Boris always has to have his say on something doesn't he.

[@sihollett]

@@mastertrams He was Mayor of London and was required, as part of his job, to have a Mayoral Transport Strategy - which is where the 'R25' was (and Sadiq Khan kept the important bits, just dropping the circular branding). He wasn't 'having his say', but 'doing his job'.

[@Keithbarber]

We already have the outer circle, but in 2 sections both routes meet at clapham junction, and highbury and islington - trains on a full circular would have to reverse at clapham junction, so its just as easy to change trains

[@mastertrams]

@@Keithbarber ... But... Clapham Junction has more than just a terminating platform. Why not route the Outer Circle onto one of these platforms? As for H&I, I'll admit I'm no expert, but a simple loop of track wouldn't be too much would it?

[@mikenash7049]

Paul McCartney brought out a film in 1984 called "Give My Regards To Broad Street", which featured a few Beatles and post-Beatles songs of his. One scene was filmed (I believe) at Broad Street station and may be some of the last images of the station to be taken. My big disappointment with the film is that although it featured David Gilmour's guitar solo on "No More Lonely Nights" while McCartney was walking through the station, it didn't show Mr. Gilmour standing in the station concourse with his famous Black Strat.

[@pras12100]

In South London's suburban rail network there used to be four ways to get from Victoria to London Bridge (or vice-versa). I think of them as horseshoe-shaped lines rather than circular. I believe the first (inner) horseshoe was via: Battersea Park Clapham Junction Wandsworth Road Clapham High Street Denmark Hill Peckham Rye Queens Road Peckham South Bermondsey Part of this is now the Overground. The second horseshoe is via: Battersea Park Clapham Junction Wandsworth Common Balham Streatham Hill Tulse Hill North Dulwich East Dulwich Peckham Rye Queens Road Peckham South Bermondsey The third horseshoe is via: Battersea Park Clapham Junction Wandsworth Common Balham Streatham Hill West Norwood Gipsy Hill Crystal Palace Sydenham Forest Hill Honor Oak Park Brockley New Cross Gate The fourth (outer) horseshoe was via: Battersea Park Clapham Junction Wandsworth Common Balham Streatham Common Norbury Thornton Heath Selhurst Norwood Junction Anerley Penge West Sydenham Forest Hill Honor Oak Park Brockley New Cross Gate I gather the direct line between Selhurst and Norwood Junction is no longer usable. Just a thought triggered by an interesting video of circular routes.

[@paulqueripel3493]

The inner circle is no longer a circle either, more a question mark. The Overground is nearly a circle, they just have to run trains from Clapham junction to Richmond to complete it (which won't happen).

[@bfapple]

Paul Queripel The Circle line is a teacup.

[@hellojasonsuresh]

The Overground forms a circle by connecting Clapham Junction to Willesden Junction on the West London Line.

[@frselsig]

The Overground has an outer circle, it just requires you to change at Highbury and Islington and Clapham Junction

[@user-ky6vw5up9m]

It is a Circle via Imperial Wharfe and a “same platform” change at Clapham Junction.

[@AndrewG1989]

And the London Overground Orbital route is slightly similar to the Circle Line. With the North London Line, South London Line, East London Line and West London Line as we know of today. And if Broad Street stations was still around then it would of been the terminus of the London Overground East London Line which was just short walk from London Liverpool Street and Moorgate stations.

[@philanderson5138]

interesting, more maps please

[@CyclingSteve]

Thank you Ken Livingstone.

[@colinbeaney7230]

Very intresting more about west london line plesse

[@thedave7760]

Great stuff very interesting but I would like to suggest you use a map or 2 it makes it much easier to visualise where these lines were and what they became.

[@physiocrat7143]

The 501 class and LMS stock was really comfortable. The centre cars of the Oerlikon stock were luxurious (ex-first class), the rest were a bit spartan, a bit like the current Overground units.

[@charlieshanowsky6103]

Thanks for NW10 bit with Willesden Junction. The see Harlesden name still triggers a thrill :) BTW I used to live there and I was always curious of those unused tracks OR currently just to cargo trains. Near to Craven Park was a plan to put a station for North Orbital - if that was the name of the scheme. I've even seen about 2016 some custruction guys making mesurements. The is also - opposite of the Harlesden Station - the usuned building saying SUBWAY, and it seems to be an old Tube station building as Americans calls Tube, near to Power Plant. OR it is like subway station for power lines network. I've always imagined the futuristic waterstoff trams on this line if it was reopened. Could cut the travel from all the area to Park Royal where work so many people (not sure it still, because of Corona). I would love to see some video about those places, also about the North Orbital, there is ready track man could link with Wembley, and almost ready to get to Brent Cross... Sad it was never put in realization. PS. HENDON station would be also a great subcject! THANKS AGAIN for the vids!

[@JagoHazzard]

I might have to explore the area in more detail. I have a friend who lives nearby. Re Hendon, I’m planning to explore that end of the Northern Line in some detail, so its time will come.

[@mattherhorn290]

I find this very difficult to visualise without a map... but great video otherwise :)

[@barrygower6733]

Get hold of a current TfL map and use an over marker to follow the route described.

[@mattherhorn290]

Barry Gower I know that I could do that, but many people watch these videos when they’re out and about, and the point is that an included map in the video would be much simpler.

[@Tonydjjokerit]

Many thanks for a very interesting video. Is the Circle line closed at weekends now???I'm not from London and a little taken aback by that I admit!

[@Punnery]

That surprised me, too. Still, demand for transit--to say nothing of revenue--has dropped dramatically (at least here in the US) due to Covid; maybe this is a way of cost-cutting. All the Circle stations are served by other lines, so the only serious issues would be a reduced frequency and the need to find an alternation connection between the H&C and District lines.

[@Keithbarber]

There is only a short stump of the old north london line viaduct that approached broad street left, most of it is demolished and the land built upon with various office blocks Shoreditch high street is about the closest they could get to the city with trains, but its not in too bad a position

[@ricktownend9144]

Great video Jago; as someone comments, the new outer circle is the overground. How about a video on the interchange stations it lacks (e.g. to GW mainline nr Wormwood Scrubbs, at Brixton, at Loughboro' Jct) or that need improving (e.g. north entrance to Liverpool St - for Shoreditch H/St, or more platforms at Willesden Jct)

[@stephenreardon2698]

there are plenty of other examples in London where connections were never made because the lines were originally built by different companies. A connecting station where the northwestern part of the central line and the northwestern part of the Piccadilly cross near Park Royal has been proposed for years.

[@BigA1]

As someone who lives in Rickmansworth, I was hoping for the much talked about route out of Rickmansworth to Watford High Street and Watford Junction. Much of this route would have been using existing old lines no longer used. I believe £15m was spent on it before the plug was pulled. This line would certainly have been a good start to the Outer Circle.

[@stephenbrasher]

Everything is great with the Inner Circle!

[@rogerkearns8094]

Another ring to rule them all that finally didn't.

[@metrebot]

I would appreciate some graphics in your videos. Really enjoy your videos

[@Titot182]

I wonder what would win in a royal rumble match between all the circles and Ringways (if it were fully completed)... That would definitely be A LOT OF CIRCLES, but only one true circle; the squared circle!

[@pete6645]

I remember travelling on a line between Richmond and Broad Street in the 1970s on an old fashioned electric train like the one featured at the beginning of this video. I think this route must have been some direct descendant of the old Outer Circle Line.

[@Twittler1]

That was the ‘North London Line’, Richmond to Broad Street.

[@paulkennedy8701]

How is Dalston Junction the closest station to Broad Street still in operation? Obviously, you mean on the Broad Street branch, not Liverpool Street or the numerous LU stations that are closer. And it's fair enough not to count Shoreditch, since the current station is closer to the old East London Line station. And Hoxton station is a new one. But why do you ignore Haggerston station?

[@shooshoodemoo2610]

What year did they close Dalston junction? i think it was 1982 might have been 1983, adn then i have no idea when they reopened it?

[@markcf83]

@@shooshoodemoo2610 mid 80's it closed. The current station opened in 2010.

[@shooshoodemoo2610]

@@markcf83 Thanks you mark:)

[@gilles111]

A (historical) map would be great in this video. If he showed the old route and stations compared to today's situation would help us a lot (I guess).

[@CyclingSteve]

The closest station of those that existed on the outer circle, he was following the route of the outer circle, this is a video about the outer circle.

[@lacadiere]

Hello, a map of the circles in the video would be very helpful to have an overview.

[@Bobrogers99]

A map definitely would have helped.

[@Benjamin.Jamin.]

Was going to say that. My London geography isn't bad .. but I got lost.

[@jackmartinleith]

I've now watched quite a number of Jago's videos and maps don't seem to be his thing. This is a shame, for reasons given here and in an earlier comment, and because he's up against Geoff Marshall (kzbin.info/door/d18OhMfRmjMjzSHP7Zrzmw), who is very much into maps. Anyway, you'll find a good one here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Circle_(London)#/media/File:The_Circle_Routes_of_Victorian_London.png

[@Randomstuffs261]

@@jackmartinleith wow... that's a lot of circles

[@360scotland4]

@@jackmartinleith That may not be fair as I guess the target market for Jago's videos about London is people who know the city. Regarding Geoff, history seems to be his weak point - like when he went to Manors and looked at dis-used platforms and said "I wonder what they were for"! Jago presents us with history - GM presents us with what he sees with his eyes when he stumbles off a train. They both have a place.

[@likklej8]

There was an underground walkway connecting Broad Street station with Liverpool St station too. Below the public walkway I was lead to believe was a bonded warehouse?

[@rayfisher3921]

I'm not sure whether there was a bonded warehouse, but the goods station alongside Broad Street passenger station also had a lower level with direct access to the street.

[@railion6513]

A fast service Circleline could help almost every city. Only stopping at main hubs to speed up the innercity transport.

[@faithlesshound5621]

A watched a video recently about something like that in Paris, going round the outskirts since the 19th century. There are circular bus routes in some cities, but those tend to be VERY slow.

[@railion6513]

@@faithlesshound5621 trams without separate tracks have the same problem. I work in Amsterdam, had to go to a certain place. First time I got there right from home, took me an hour to reach work afterwards, 2 changeovers (tram, tram, bus), second time I took a company car... 17 minutes.

[@whitewittock]

A circle all the way round zone 4 would be useful

[@trevormillar2755]

Back in 1978 I did pay to join "Ringrail 2000", a pressure group to create an outer London orbital railway; the Overground goes some way to acheive this, though I would have preferred something a bit more complete....

[@martinmargerrison2300]

Mark Lizotte (aka Johnny Diesel/Diesel) does a superb cover of Joni Mitchell's "The Circle Game". It's on his Americana album. However I think it was recorded in Australia and not actually on either the inner, outer or have a banana circle circle lines. Obviously " Oval" station couldn't be on the circle line or they'd have got a nasty visit from UK Trading Standards officers.

[@pappakilo3965]

In the late1970s we tested Class 313 EMUs from Broad St to Willesden Jn with the idea of running services from Liverpool St around the North London Line. Did that ever happen?

[@JagoHazzard]

I seem to recall it did, certainly around 2000 when I was commuting on that line.

[@stuartmcconnachie]

0:43 ...and neither is the “Inner” Circle line now they’ve added that bit going off to Hammersmith. More like the “Q on its side line”. Not quite as snappy I suppose.

[@highpath4776]

Someone must have had a Brio Railway when they were younger to come up with that. H&C needs extending at Barking to Barking Creek and the Thames.

[@millomweb]

I'd prefer "The squiggle line".

[@jonathanbaker3307]

They should close the loop and just have the Hammersmith and city handle the branch. #MakeTheCircleCircularAgain

[@jeanjacques9980]

I agree a map of the three circles would be helpful to visualise the routes more clearly.

[@t.bfisher5855]

Seriously there always that person who gotta press dislike, its a pretty good video and i hope jago does the middle circle line, That would be interesting

[@JagoHazzard]

Thanks!

[@t.bfisher5855]

Hey jago did u know that there a super outer circle aswell

[@annescholey6546]

The nightmare line as it's always shut at weekends

[@adamwright9517]

I wish you had included a map to help viewers picture the route. Great video anyway!

[@keithjas25]

Well that told me. I always thought the inner and outer circles referred to clockwise and anti clockwise on what we called the circle line before the extra arm.

[@srfurley]

Isn’t that known as inner rail and outer rail by Underground staff?

[@deyesed]

The Chinese naming convention for loop lines is inner/outer vs clockwise/counterclockwise.

[@davidpanton3192]

'Outer Circle' in Glasgow refers to the clockwise side of the Subway and of ScotRail's Cathcart Circle. The latter isn't a true circle either. It used to be appled to the Fife Circle (also not a circle) but was dropped probably because 'Outer Circle' sounds like it ought to be coast first but actually it's not. Confused? Never mind.

[@JagoHazzard]

Man I love the Glasgow Subway.

[@davidpanton3192]

@@JagoHazzard It'll lose a bit of character when the driverless trains come in. Mind you they'll probably be delayed longer than London CrossRail and we may get cold fusion first (or the second coming).

[@marvintpandroid2213]

A sassy Jago is a good Jago

[@DavidArdittiComposer]

No, it would not be particularly useful, as it is still more or less there. The big thing that is missing from London’s public transport network is an outer, outer circle line for north London. The Overground (old North London Line or Outer Circle) is much too far in to be the only orbital rail connection for north London. There is a glaring need for rail connecting the outer northern suburbs, an equivalent of the North Circular Road. One solution would be to take space out of the North Circular Road for a tramway: this really would be going back to the future, as I think this was the original intention for that road.

[@gregoryferraro7379]

You missed your opportunity to call yourself "the Tube Keeper" on your Halloween episode.