The "PANDA" this is why you should never use it.

[@stefansanders3858]

That wasn’t a panda that was a mess. He just got rushed and lost position. In a proper Panda, he would have stayed secured on the post and sealed in the “panda” position, which is almost indistinguishable from a Blade-on-Post RVH at that point in the sequence. In case anyone cares here’s what I’m teaching: Overlap (an extension of base depth) in situations with ONE shot threat (no f2 or D has f2 tried up). VH if shot from Low-Dead angle ( hashies to G. Line) with a potential pass or rebound (but low assessed threat). Panda for 2-1 or 50/50 shot/pass, bc you are in a hybrid overlap which still allows you to shift to slot if pass or rebound. RVH only in tight plays, never for shots at distance. And I would love to talk RVH Toe-on-Post vs Shin-on-Post and when/why!

[@uegoaltending]

Much like the origin of the RVH, the PANDA (or as I call it: Overlap RVH) arose out of a misfired technical execution. I've noted it a few years back as goalies tracked a play wide into an overlap and get caught still outside the post when they need to make an RVH play, as when a player drives wide and finds a lane to the nearside post along the goal line. Stuck in the overlap, they can't tuck the lowside foot into the post while the player is driving and a shot threat. Or they catch their lowside foot's heel on the frame, stumble, and make the best effort to cover shortside and eliminate the five hole. I've stated in other forums that move is very exploitable by the player driving the net if they have their head up. Pasco found a great example of it. And possibly, it may get refined after thousands of games of play-testing and become a tool for the toolbelt, but it is too early to tell if it as revolutionary as the happy accident the RVH was.

[@PascoValana]

Thank you very much for an excellent overview I love your details and I hope that you continue to comment because it's always nice to share in our Goaltending community. This is a great platform to do it so if there's ever anything you need or would like to jump in, let me know.

[@stefansanders3858]

May I suggest that Panda (RVH Overlap IS a better name) so is SuS (Short-side, Under-square) is specifically for F1 wide drive, w/F2 posing a threat if F1 makes that pass. It allows a small hedge into the pass and resulting shot w/o sacrificing angle, depth or an unforgivable amount of squareness. It’s just an “acute” save selection, not as ubiquitous as an overlap or RVH. My free $.02. 😉

[@uegoaltending]

@@stefansanders3858 I never articulated what the "exploit" is for the "PANDA", but it is partially understandable from the video presented. For a weak angle shot or weak side jam, it does very well. In addition, you are further out past the shortside post, so you may even have better shortside high corner coverage. However, the "exploit" I see is when the player drives below the goal line, heading for the far post. In the "PANDA", you need to clear your overlap foot (the one outside the net) to load and push to the other side. To clear the post, you have to hinge, not with a post-anchored skate like in the RVH, but through you center core. In doing so, you open up your back for a bank shot. This violates one of my rules of thumb for goalies: "NEVER SHOW YOUR NUMBERS (ON YOUR JERSEY) TO SOMEONE BEHIND THE NET". By show, I mean that the numbers are visible outside the frame of the net. With the extra distance to travel from post to post, most goalies will have to execute this hinge earlier in the attack, exposing themselves to the little chip play displayed in this video. I used to have a C. McDavid example of this goal from a couple years back. I need to find it again. That being said, I do set up drills that force my goalies into the "PANDA" because I want them to find ways to get out of it if they had mistake in execution or are surprised by a weak-angle/goal line shot while retreating to the net.

[@stefansanders3858]

I see your point, getting wrapped around the post, and with a fast play being tangled up.

[@PizzaRollz1]

My thought is that any position in which you can get stuck outside the post when a player could potentially go for a wrap around or is on a dead angle is just a disaster waiting to happen. Why put the post in the way of your movement? I get an overlap, but there's gotta be the realization of when a shot chance is gone. As with what some said here, this was a horrible save selection by Samsonov here.

[@paulheadley3652]

I'm curious as to how Samsonov should have played that differently? I mean, he pushed to his left to cover the weird rebound and wouldn't have been able to go into an RVH easily. The only thing my untrained eye sees is his angle is way off, therefore allowing the shot to be banked off him. Any insight would be appreciated!

[@hansdar79]

It’s easy to criticize from the keyboard, the reality is the puck was redirected a couple times and it’s amazing he even knew where it was. That’s said, he allows his stick to get a bit sloppy when he stops to reverse his push (“backside push”). That causes him to lose rotation on the puck and be caught with his back to the puck. Instead if he maintained compact hand/elbow position and rotated his shoulders with the puck (stick leading the way), that would have allowed him to slide into the post with his strong side leg and anchor to it in RVH. That said, once the puck got behind him and it was shot back into him, I think he did the right thing trying to just squeeze everything tight in hopes of holding onto the puck.

[@paulheadley3652]

Are you saying I'm criticizing Mr. Valana or Samsonov? The truth is I'm just curious as to how Samsonov should have played this situation better after getting out of position due to the funny rebound that occurred. Samsonov seems to swim around and get out of position sometimes so I wanted an expert opinion on it.

[@hansdar79]

@@paulheadley3652 no, I’m saying I have no business criticizing him, but I did it anyway. I’m sure on a direct pass that doesn’t bounce around like that his stick position is impeccable.

[@PascoValana]

It's easy to criticize and that's certainly not what I'm doing about Samsonov I'm doing it about the technique called the panda. There are four major positions in Goaltending and two of them could've been used in the situation, the butterfly and the RVH. It all starts with rebound control, but as soon as he makes the save his body explodes into a variety of directions. Putting our side once his hips are off angle now he's got the pipe behind them and trying to stop a puck with your bum. It's not gonna work it's one of the massive weaknesses in utilizing this tactic.

[@paulheadley3652]

@@PascoValana Thanks for the insight! Do you think there's any situation where the Panda technique is of value? Watching the game last night I saw Samsonov using the RVH a lot but didn't notice an overlap/Panda so I'm just wondering if there is any value in having the overlap as an option.

[@giii7599]

Panda = Stuck and never being able to use your edges.

[@AzNightmare]

*What's the V-8?*

[@PascoValana]

VH the VH, a vertical horizontal position. Used only in a very specific situation, which is on the dead angle at either side of the night just above the goal line. If you have an email address, send it to me and I'll send you a picture of it.

[@commanderneyo]

this isn't the Panda, this is Samsonov being Samsonov: not great