The Patagonian Bones (Welsh Settlers Documentary) Timeline

[@manuelpena777]

Did anyone else notice the strong similarities between Nia and Catherine? The resemblance is astounding even through the passage of time.

[@backandstillbgmsdangerusda5493]

This made me cry. She was so young taking a frightening trip into the unknown and losing a child during the voyage. To die so soon after arrival, she while ill and her husband after her death must have felt she was lost to memory forever. Her family in Wales have found their ancestor. Not only the Welsh in Argentina now know her and her story but the rest of the world too. Many thanks to the professionals and their dedication to her identification and memory.

[@joseignaciorick]

Thank you for your comments. It was great to work on the film and have the opportunity to tell the story of the Welsh of Patagonia. Very pleased to see that nearly 28,000 people have seen the film in the first 5 days. To get more information please Like me at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/ Thanks

[@jamesfletcher279]

I met a man in Caernarfon he was speaking to me in Welsh and it sounded very strange so asked if he preferred to speak English he answered I can only speak Welsh and Spanish I am from Patagonia I am here to see where my ancestors came from

[@emilygilbeyful]

That's so wierd and interesting. I can't believe they speak conversatiinal Welsh so far away. Amazing!

[@alietheartist734]

I love hearing Welsh spoken. It’s such a beautiful language. It’s so amazing that they were able to identify Catherine so many years later.

[@joyplanta2402]

What I found amazing is that the Patagonians of Welsh ancestry have retained their ability to speak Welsh despite being in a Spanish speaking environment.

[@joseignaciorick]

Joy Planta that was as a result of the long isolation from any other non-indigenous, and particularly English speakers, that lasted well into the 20th century. I asked my main character, Nia: “How do these people speak Welsh?”. And she replied: “Better than the people in Wales!"

[@LadyBizBiz]

When the native language was being systematically killed by invading Imperialists it was the passion for their culture and language that drove these people to do what they did to ensure that Welsh endured. They are heros of their time and will always be remembered and celebrated.

[@davidbaxter4910]

YES IN WELSH, EIAH?

[@davidbaxter4910]

I AM 3 QUARTERS WELSH. A QUARTERS SCOTS. THIS IS INTERESTING. David Baxter.

[@amethyst5538]

The resemblance between the two women seperated by distance and generations is astounding. A wonderful story.

[@joseignaciorick]

Thank you very much. It was a privilege having the opportunity to make this film.

[@joseignaciorick]

You can see photos of the making of the film in 2015 at facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1069590963056264

[@joseignaciorick]

and further information with a Like at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@peteaustin9636]

as a welshman and taught about Patagonia in school, this was such a great story.... thanks for making it .. good effort

[@joseignaciorick]

Pete Austin thank you for your kind words. Backstage photos from the shooting at facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1181598525188840

[@grantmarshall3026]

I’m from County Down, my dad’s from Lancashire and my great grandmother was a Roberts from north Wales. Despite the fact that she lived in England for 70 years and died aged 91, she was buried in her beloved north Wales. I’m not sure exactly where but her daughter, my grandmother, holidayed in Gwynnd. When my kids were small we holidayed once in Prestatyn, in 2005. I loved the place. What a fascinating documentary, makes me wonder if I’m related to this fascinating group in Argentina

[@joseignaciorick]

Thank you so much for your comments about my film. Please Like me at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@joseignaciorick]

You can see some photos of the backstage of the film at facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1181598525188840

[@123985i]

Wonderful story.This really touched me. BTW every single human is valuable and meant to be here for a reason.

[@joseignaciorick]

Wow. Amazing to think that my film is being watched in Wyoming, that is so cool! Thanks! And greetings from London in the UK. Please Like me at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@joseignaciorick]

You can see some backstage photos at facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1181598525188840

[@stevek1225]

I grew up very close to where this was filmed and, to my understanding, it is very likely (99%) that ancestors of mine from around the Bala / Trawsfynydd area made the same, or a similar journey. It is a shame this was never taught in Welsh history classes at school.

[@dawnlawson7254]

several people in the comments and Nia herself say that it was taught.

[@MsVanorak]

i noted what they said about catherine's jaw being irregular (gap between top middle teeth is slightly off centre) and then towards the end they put up the part of the family tree that they used - oh, the surnames jones and edwards - so that's just about every native of inland mid wales! 😁 i have the wonky teeth and my great grandmother on both sides of my family was edwards before marriage. another great grandmother was jones. rural people working the land didn't move far from home from generation to generation. no wonder they got such a positive dna result! bravo!

[@GreatGreebo]

This made me cry... I’m glad Catherine got her name back. I wonder if she’ll be brought home and buried with her mother....

[@madibe53]

It was very interesting watching this. I have both Roberts, and Davis in my Welsh family lines, but from a hundred or so years before Catherine. They immigrated here to the States, to Pennsylvania. I'm glad her family has found her again.

[@joseignaciorick]

Thank you Madelane for your comments about my film.

[@MsVanorak]

Davis is english. Davies is Welsh. not sure about Roberts - Robertson is more associated with scotland. but there are quite a lot of ancient scots families in wales. i guess they liked it hilly and wet!

[@aldozilli1293]

​​@@MsVanorakThis is incorrect Davis and Davies are Welsh as is Roberts, quintessentially. Wales is full of them as they were effectively made to register names by the English and due to the tradition of patronymic surnames in Wales would translate son of David (ap Daffydd) to David's or Davies/Davis. Same with other common Welsh surnames Roberts, Probert (ap Robert) Jones, Williams, Evans, Pritchard (ap Richard) , Richards, Price (ap Rhys), Lewis etc. etc.

[@kentuckylady2990]

Amazing story. I would have cried buckets. I was a little tearful. I would like to see a follow up about the two sons who survived and her husband

[@joseignaciorick]

Thanks for your comments. One of the sons later emigrated to Canada and his descendants still live there, I am in touch with them. One of them came to Puerto Madryn in August, 2015 to participate of the reburial ceremony. To see more information please Like my page facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@joseignaciorick]

You can also see some backstage photos at facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1069590963056264

[@mariab509]

I wonder what happened to Katherine's other 2 children? The lady in the doc probably , still has cousins in Argentina. It made me cry.

[@eliscanfield3913]

In the documentary, they said they only found male descendents 29:35 (so they couldn't do mitochondrial dna), so I guess there are still Argentinian and Welsh cousins. At least you generally don't use "descendents" when you're just referring to sons

[@joseignaciorick]

@@eliscanfield3913 hello. Catherine did have in fact only 2 male children (plus another who died on the trip as an infant). One of those kids later emigrated to Canada, and his descendants live there. But yes, we DID do mitochondrial DNA studies by “going up” first to a sister of Catherine’s grandmother, then “down” 9 generations to Nia Owen Ritchie, a firefighter in Llandrillo near Bala in Wales, and compared the bones mitochondrial DNA to Nia’s mitochondrial DNA. Cheers

[@joseignaciorick]

You can find more information about the film with a Like at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@joseignaciorick]

To see an album with photos of the making of THE PATAGONIAN BONES in 2015: facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1069590963056264

[@lindagomez3114]

What a Beautiful Heartwarming story! Made me cry and my heart full of Love and Joy!! Thank you!!

[@WalesTheTrueBritons]

Wow - an actuall Historical document about Wales and the Welsh that isn't taken and made to seem too ridiculous to have happened. Which happens constantly throughout Welsh historical events. Which is a shame, as Welsh history is insanely long and extensive. People should not allow history be "simplified".

[@nancymiteff9226]

I am very proud of my Welsh heritage and l noticed that we often get ignored. Loved my grand father's accent.

[@WalesTheTrueBritons]

@@nancymiteff9226 exactly, ignored, not forgotten like most seem to think. Forgotten suggests its done on accident, when going by education systems world over - it's far from an accident. Take America for example. The impact of the Welsh over America compared to its size is insane. Yet most Americans don't even know Wales exists. The fact Ellis island is named after a Welshman, and the first woman to hold public office was a Welsh Woman should be enough for every American to know Wales exists. Let alone others such as, Alfred Lloyd Wright, Buddy Holly, Rita Heyworth, Better Davis, Joshua Humphreys, Jack Daniels, Jesse and Frank James, George Henry Thomas. Joshua Humphreys for example was the man who designed Americas first set of naval ships - so the father of the US Navy. Yet still, most Americans never heard of Wales.

[@richardlongues4695]

@@WalesTheTrueBritons Thank you for your comment ! l know Y Wladfa (Éwladva) and it's main cities: Gaiman, Madryn, Trevelin, Trelew ... since the time l lived in Argentina. Wales/Cymru is less ignored than what you believe. A Frenchman who's second Fatherland is Wales. Diolch Mawr !

[@nancymiteff9226]

@@richardlongues4695 Thank you for educating me a bit more about Wales. It's a very magical and magnificent part of the world

[@nancymiteff9226]

Mmm?

[@dallasbryan9959]

Great Documentary! I'm of Welsh heritage and love to see the way we have made or mark on the rest of the world. I am of the heritage Powys.

[@WalesTheTrueBritons]

@CemtecUk Weird, Wales and America's connection! Over 10 million have Welsh surnames, yet only 1.9million say they have Welsh ancestry. Which seems like the Americans aren't taught about Wales. Or even worse, taught that the Welsh and English are the same. Famous Welsh Americans incude but aren't limited to... Alfred Lloyd Wright Jack Daniels Jesse and Frank James George Henry Thomas Joshua Humphreys Buddy holly Tammy Wynette Ginger Rogers Rita Heyworth Bette Davis Ted Levine John Adams Jefferson Davis Martha Hughes Cannon JP Morgan

[@vikkiirey1038]

@@WalesTheTrueBritons And me! Vikki Irey, CA USA! I'm not famous but thank you for the list😉🖒

[@WalesTheTrueBritons]

@Ruthanne D'Antuono yeah, the Morgan name goes way back in Wales. The name originates as far back as the 6th century. Legend has it originating from King Arthurs son Morgan. and the area that would become known as Glamorgan in South Wales was named for him. Gla or Gwlad (nation in welsh) and Morgan. So literally the nation of Morgan. And Gwent next to Glamorgan was names after Gwenivere.

[@WalesTheTrueBritons]

@Ruthanne D'Antuono Well, it's original form was Morcant. Which would later on drop the C for a G and then drop the T. As for what it means, I've completely forgotten but I'm sure a quick Google search would tell you. 😉 Btw, it also arose seperatley up in Scotland, where the same Brythonic people's that would become known as the Welsh had Kingdoms. Such as Strat Clut and Rheged, which sat on the border of what is now England and Scotland. And Probably why the Welsh supported the Lancastrians, which funnily enough starts with Lan, ad another L and you get Llan, Welsh word for "Place of". This is why every place name, or almost every place name in Wales starts with Llan. It's "place of" and then the name of the person or event or church, etc comes afterwards.

[@WalesTheTrueBritons]

@Ruthanne D'Antuono cheers, glad you had good experiences around them. They are, for the most part down to earth, the Welsh. Sure, extremely proud of their country and ancestry but not in - it's better than yours kind of way. I too have Welsh ancestry, also, English and Irish.

[@jwnagy]

Llewellyn talks about the Welsh settlers in Patagonia in one of his novels.

[@joansmith3296]

Absolutely fascinating! One of the best videos I've seen. Thank you! DNA research is just amazing. I can't help but think what hardships these settlers must have gone through.

[@joseignaciorick]

Joan Smith thank you so much for your comments about my film! Please Like me at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@joseignaciorick]

To see some photos from the making of the film in 2015 please go to facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1181598525188840

[@GuanderGuoman]

Great little documentary! I grew up in the area and learning about the Mimosa and the Welsh settlers was part of our 4th-grade curriculum. This was very enlightening and evidently done with love. Bravo!

[@joseignaciorick]

Thank you so much for your kinds words about our work! Diolch yn fair!

[@leandroamado]

Excellent documentary! What a fantastic group of scientists! They were so committed and enthusiastic about this project that aimed to identify human remains, giving dignity to those bones and to the memory of that soul. What a fantastic story! I have been to Puerto Madryn, Trelew and Gaiman around 1995, the year when the remains were discovered. A fantastic story. I would be interesting to know whether there are descendants from Catherine Roberts/Davies, since she left two sons... Congratulations!

[@robynw6307]

I do wonder if Nia managed to connect with any relatives in Argentina. It didn't come up in the doco. :: I thought that Nia had been convinced to portray Catherine walking on the sands, the two women look so alike. But no. It was an actress. Can't believe how like Catherine Nia is in appearance after so many generations. Great doco.

[@joseignaciorick]

Thanks Robyn Webster. Yes, the resemblance between the 3 women (Catherine, Nia, and the woman who played Catherine who is a town employee in the city of Rawson, Argentina by the name of Paula Humphries) was a very fortunate thing for the film. You can see some photos of the making of the documentary in 2015 at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@joseignaciorick]

More specifically there is a photo album on the backstage at facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1181598525188840

[@gaiaocracy]

Wow! Her bones cried out. A community rallied. She came from far away to honour her kin. Splendid!

[@joseignaciorick]

Thank you so much for your comments about my film. If you want to see some photos of the making of the documentary in 2015 please go to facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1181598525188840

[@joseignaciorick]

And for further information about this and other works please Like me at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@bethbartlett5692]

I always think of Frank Lloyd Wright when I see Welsh subjects. He was born in the USA but his parents were from Wales, most of the family came over together. *Frank Lloyd Wright will always remain the most brilliant mind in 20th Century Design* - the Johnson Wax Company, his Waterfall design, and the total concept - designing all the furniture and details. My hero of Architecture and Mid Century Frank Lloyd Wright. The Welsh have a truly genius artist in their genepool. I'm quite proud for them, being of lineage of County Kerry, Ireland. I know we share Ancient Basque Blood. Tennessee, USA

[@danielmilliken8903]

Wow what an inspiration and that song in the end! def awesome Tu for sharing.

[@davidbaxter4910]

THIS IS GOOD!

[@davidbaxter4910]

I agree.

[@marcat4565]

This was wonderful!

[@joseignaciorick]

Thank you!

[@momoline3794]

This really made me cry. Such a beautiful story

[@joseignaciorick]

Thanks for your comments. If you want to see photos from the making of the film in 2015 please go to facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1181598525188840

[@joseignaciorick]

And please Like me at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@momoline3794]

@@joseignaciorick done 💚

[@champagnesupernova5745]

💗 Nia certainly resembles Catherine.

[@joseignaciorick]

Hello, I am the film maker. Yes, when I met Nia I was also very impressed about the resemblance. And then we cast for an actress to play Catherine in the historical recreations, and met a woman who is not an actress but an employee of the city of Rawson in Argentina: Paula Humphries, and she resembled both Nia and Catherine, so that was quite remarkable.

[@joseignaciorick]

For more info about the making of THE PATAGONIAN BONES please Like me at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@joseignaciorick]

You can see some photos of the making of the film in 2015 at facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1069590963056264

[@amazinggrace5692]

Ricardo Preve I enjoyed this film very much. Much love from the US. 💕🐝 #Bee Kind

[@greatboniwanker]

What strikes me is how ingrained the passing on of the Welsh language is; cadwch yr hyn sydd bwysicaf - even in Patagonia!

[@joseignaciorick]

It certainly is. I asked Nia, our main character, about how well do people in Patagonia speak Welsh, and her answer was “Better than us in Wales!” Her answer may have been a compliment, but there are certainly many people in Chubut who speak Welsh.

[@janupczak5059]

Thank you for sharing this incredible story...❤

[@joseignaciorick]

Thank you Jan it was a privilege to be able to tell this story. You can see some photos from the backstage of the film at facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1181598525188840

[@joseignaciorick]

Also, please Like me at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@MsVanorak]

thank you. very enjoyable.

[@sherimasherian9833]

Loved it💚💜💛💙

[@joseignaciorick]

Thanks so much! I am glad you liked my film. You can see backstage photos at facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1181598525188840

[@davidbaxter4910]

HUMPH, VERY INTERESTING.

[@davidbaxter4910]

ABSOLUTEMENT.

[@markpenn4831]

What a great and fascinating story !!!!

[@joseignaciorick]

Thank you Mark Penn! If you want to know more please Like the page facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@joseignaciorick]

There are backstage photos at facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1181598525188840

[@markpenn4831]

Thank you Ricardo !

[@markpenn4831]

Thank you very much Ricardo !!!

[@markpenn4831]

A very human story Ricardo, I have some Welsh ancestry myself ! Really interesting indeed sir thank you !!

[@jacquelinegibbs9483]

Why Argentina? Respect shown for the family is powerful, recognized by all, universal.

[@Marta121211]

By 1865 ,Argentina was accepting European inmigrants already as the first colony had been founded in 1856 by Swiss inmigrants. Also, they were offered land and freedom of religion in exchange of the acceptance of the jurisdiction of the Republic of Argentina. Like them, the Irish and Scottish started to arrive too, not only the English with their enterprises. Today there are 500.000 Irish descendents and 150.000 Scottish descendents in Argentina as a result of this policy.

[@richardlongues4695]

Argentina is the fifth country of emigration to the lrish diaspora since the potato bligh. It was a very rich country by that time. And it still has a great potential, as its membership of the G-20 (biggest world economies) shows. That's why.

[@eliscanfield3913]

Archeologists speak the same language, even when they aren't speaking one of yours :)

[@elizabethstuart7406]

The language of science. Science is a language based on truth, as best as possible. Science is like music, it speaks the same truth in all languages.

[@joseignaciorick]

@@elizabethstuart7406 this is very true, and in this case the scientists in Argentina had to wait 20 years to get the answer, which made it feel even better when the results came in. For more info on the film please Like me at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@dancooper102]

Excellent

[@joseignaciorick]

Thank you Dan Cooper. If you want to know more about how the film was made please go to this link for some backstage photos from 2015: facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1181598525188840

[@joseignaciorick]

And please also Like me at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@TiempoNuevo-ew7ty]

Interesting video. However when you have a white back ground use black letters in the script.

[@joseignaciorick]

Thanks for your comment. Up until the film came out on You Tube and Amazon, we had never had a complaint about that. Now we had a couple. I will take it into account but for us directors putting changing color subtitles, in addition to being more complex and expensive, carries also some negative esthetic implications. But I will definitively take it into account. In the meantime, if you want to see some backstage photos facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1181598525188840

[@joseignaciorick]

And to know more about the film please Like my page at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@paulmcdonough1093]

That was a good documentary

[@semperfidelis2970]

What a fantastic story. And how connected we all are. And on the totally different point the Argentinian men are very handsome.

[@victoria180]

I'm Welsh i would love to go to Patagonia

[@buffy377]

I love DNA so SO much!

[@dopamin81]

Thanks

[@joseignaciorick]

Thank you for watching. For more information please Like the page facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@davidbaxter4910]

ABSOLUTEMENT.

[@thomasbell7033]

I could have used subtitles for the Welsh lady, not just thr Argentine doctor. I'm from Texas, so my Spanish is better than my ear for Welsh proper nouns.

[@wendyreuse7190]

I still don’t get why they left Wales.

[@mytwocents848]

Did Nia and her mother have Catherine reburied in Wales or in the Welsh community in Argentina? Were they given her wedding ring as a memento?

[@NantNia]

It was not for us to decide. She had great great grandchildren living in Canada, it was their decision to bury her in portamadryn.

[@davidbaxter4910]

Eeah!

[@joseignaciorick]

To see photos of the backstage please go to facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1181598525188840

[@EVERTONFC.]

This is too soon. Let them rest for Christ sake !

[@Squire_Chug]

Welsh is a crazy language lol

[@WalesTheTrueBritons]

Not really. Learn and you'll see its more phonetically correct than English. And it has more vowels. Two extra.

[@Squire_Chug]

@@WalesTheTrueBritons Nah I'm good, I'll stick to modern american english and keep thinking welsh is a crazy language, but thanks for dropping in.

[@WalesTheTrueBritons]

@@Squire_Chug so you choose ignorance? In the 21st century when educating ones self is the easiest it's ever been! Oh well, each to their own.

[@NantNia]

You opinion. Dim byd ond cariad at yr iaith.

[@Squire_Chug]

@@welsh-cymru1588 No one asked...

[@jameslanning8405]

Why was the church service almost all women? Where were the men? I saw like... 2 men there! In the old photo of the settlers, there were several men...

[@joseignaciorick]

James Lanning good observation, I have seen my film hundreds of times and never noticed that. It is just the way it happened.

[@joseignaciorick]

If you want to see backstage photos please go to facebook.com/pg/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1181598525188840

[@joseignaciorick]

And please Like me at facebook.com/Ricardo-Preve-307528435929191/

[@LChem1]

There were Welch in Utah in 1846 when Mormonism invaded. You can research this

[@markthomasjones9520]

CYMRU AM BYTH 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩

[@janemorrison8577]

I can barely understand a word she is saying because of her accent. I stopped watching the video. They should have had a professional narrator or at least someone understandable. What a waste. It looked like an interesting story.

[@OstblockLatina]

25:23 - Non-Hispanic people don't rename your married women according to own tradition, so please don't do it with non-Hispanic married women according to your customs either. It's not just incorrect but also disrespectful. Mrs. Davies doesn't stop being Mrs. Davies no matter where she ends up.

[@semperfidelis2970]

In your frenzy I think you're missing the most important point of the documentary. The issue you are addressing is unrelated to what this documentary is about.

[@icdas7158]

Madryn is a dreadful place

[@richardlongues4695]

What a loser 😂😂😂 Madryn is located at the foot of Península Valdés, one of the most beautiful places on earth, where the Frank Whales come to give birth to their babies.

[@icdas7158]

Richard Longues darling talking about the town - now what’s around it a been there many times

[@icdas7158]

Richard Longues oh babies whales - they are called “ calf’s “ not babies .

[@dantone1952]

Lots of sad harp music and Spanish yakity yak - Speak English please!

[@elizabethstuart7406]

You want to know what they are saying?? LEARN SPANISH!! Fool.

[@pikeman80]

Well, considering that it was filmed in a Spanish speaking country perhaps Spanish was the appropriate language for the narration. It was subtitled in English. I'm assuming that you can read.

[@ebybeehoney]

Why did she have to go to Argentina for a swab? They could have swabbed the entire family in Wales.

[@constanzadavite5811]

My aunt I Argetina wanted to order a Myheritage test kit form the USA as this is not offered there. She has been told Argetina laws does not accepts trafic of biological samples by post. I guess is for that? But it would be weird there is no exceptions as like per Scientific purposes and evenmore when it is requested by the Conicet, the National science department 🤔