The Perfect Ending? - Shogun Episode 10 Reaction/Review

[@danbadd]

"Your nation of peace didn't last very long." 🧐Umm... it lasted 255 years and was a period of military peace, political stability, and economic growth for Japan.

[@kaushikhegde8227]

Yes, Ieyasu led the foundation of the Tokugawa Shogunate which ensured peace for 260 years.

[@dusanhomer]

That is good enough..In the Europe we were killing each other for thousands years, in name of god..or whatever

[@alvintcura]

And arts. And all of it happened 60 years before Rob Roy MacGregor was born.

[@gustlightfall]

Well what did we expect from dumb and dumber, well to be fair, I'm the dumbest cause I stayed and watched their reaction till the end lol.

[@SovermanandVioboy]

"your nation of peace didn't last very long" *longest period of peace Japan has ever had

[@BruderLoras]

Yeah. I'd say more than 250 years of peace is pretty decent, all things considered.

[@aqaqgogo]

as japanese , this peace was very long and its was worth . 1467~1603 war period made too many cruel death , this movie start from 1600. so audience cant see how crazy days continued . taiko toyotomi hideyoshi and tokugawa ieyasu(toranaga) enshrined as god . because this peace was valuable . Toshogu is enshirined ieyasu . here is very famous spot . normally i dont comment , but i protest this words , you cant laugh it, sorry rude comment

[@Slapclapcom]

Exactly. annoying reaction from these two

[@justwatch7091]

They are like Marvel characters, gotta say a one-liner, even if it does not make sense.

[@Bnio]

Most people's knowledge of Japan is a 4-year window of WWII and maybe some cheesy anime. All that samurai stuff that spanned a thousand years is all the same day apparently.

[@PossessedbyPhoenix]

47:46: Actually, in real life his "nation of peace" did last a very long time, over two hundred years the Tokugawa (Toranaga) shogunate ruled Japan until America forced them to open trade in 1853, which was the end for them.

[@nont18411]

The Americans disrupting peace in another country. Something never change.

[@darrellhenry9152]

@@nont18411Well without it there’s no anime or video games so you’re welcome.

[@nont18411]

@@darrellhenry9152 of course but it’s still a pattern

[@drsavage3262]

And then Pearl Harbor happened! I'm just glad we are allies again.

[@jakewolf079]

Edo Period lasted 260 years, that's longer than USA's current age. Few country around the world achieved that long of a peaceful era.

[@KINGSUNA]

You guys missed reviewing the critical quote. "Why should I tell a dead man the future?" This was Yabu's quote to Omi in the first episode. Toranaga is answering Yabu's question. His third heart (hidden goal) is to become Shogun. It has always been that. Omi was one of a legion of people giving information to Toranaga from the very beginning. It has always been part of the plan. Yabu smiles and looks at Toranaga right at the end after starting seppukku and finally understands it all (true last minute of clarity), Toranaga answers with a smile and finishes the act.

[@jakewolf079]

47:47 the ''nation of peace" aka Edo Period lasted 260 years, that's longer than USA's current age, and yes it was peaceful. Few country around the world achieved that.

[@tamara4591]

what do you mean by "your nation of peace didn't last very long" when Toronaga explains his plan ? 😂 Shogun is an adaptation of the true history of Japan. Mariko, Blackthorne and Toranaga are based on real-life characters. Toranaga is actually Tokugawa Ieyasu who became Shogun in 1603 after the battle he speaks about at the end of the series. After being awarded the title of shogun (leader of the armies), he made the village of Edo, where he had established his headquarters, the new capital. Edo will become Tokyo (“capital of the East”). Leyasu was therefore the first shogun of the Tokugawa dynasty, which reigned over Japan until 1868 (Meiji Revolution). Which therefore begins an era of peace, stability and unity NEVER seen in Japan for 265 years! It is a huge high point in Japanese history and the Meiji era started by the real Toranaga will change Japan forever.

[@nont18411]

“Your nation of peace didn’t last very long” Toranaga’s entire Edo period lasted longer than the United States

[@marcuswilliams7888]

Peace? It was a dictatorship where Christians were oppressed and murdered.

[@hawnsolo]

@@nont18411@nont18411 Well, they're British, so the US are traitors to these two.

[@aburakadabura2]

History. Despite permission to return home from Tranaga (Yeayas), Blackthorn (Anjin) never returned to his native England, where his wife and children were. In a letter to the British East India Company, he wrote, "I want to save more cash before returning. At the time, Blackthorn (Anjin) spoke fluent Japanese and was completely at home in Japan. He had become so much a Japanese that his compatriots called him "a Japanese with a European face" (Journal of the Voyage of John Sailis, British Envoy to Japan). He had a Japanese wife and children in Japan. Above all, he was at the center of politics in Japan as a close associate of Toranaga (Ieyasu), but once he returned to England, he would have returned to being a simple sailor. This was probably the reason why he did not return to England.

[@nont18411]

We can judge Toranaga or Tokugawa Ieyasu as much as we want but we shouldn’t forget that his new capital city of Edo at that time will eventually expand and become “Tokyo” as we know in the present days. Without him, Tokyo wouldn’t have existed. Not to mention that the Japanese food that we eat today, the classic architecture, the painting, the swords. Many things that we considered to be “Japanese culture” were based from the Edo period that he created so is he really a bad guy? And if we look at the great legendary leaders throughout history like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Emperor Qin, Genghis Khan, Napoleon, Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa Ieyasu himself or even Gandhi, how many of them are good, let alone nice people?

[@React2This]

John’s “future” where he was an old man clutching Mariko’s rosary was the dream from the episode title.

[@goodtaste4]

That's why he's looking back before he tries to kill himself and says 'F it.' He's saying goodbye to this future.

[@mikeymike1843]

Yeah! don't understand how everyone missed that. Also how blackthorn is just a minor part of the whole plan. The only reason I think Toronaga didn't kill him at the end was because of Mariko.

[@zanaros2606]

​@@mikeymike1843we Asians are more indirect in the way we express things. When a shogun says you make him smile, it means he likes you.

[@LSThrowaway]

Edo - that village he said would be his capital - is now known by a different name: Tokyo His era of peace was the longest Japan has ever known and lasted longer than the US has currently existed as a country, for comparison sake.

[@myoujinnfuru5649]

徳川（虎長）幕府が日本を統治し250年間の時代は後に「江戸時代」と言われますが、この時代は権力者や武士、貴族が主役ではなく主役は「庶民」でしたね。一般庶民の文化が大きく花開いだ時代。　庶民が主役の時代と言うのはこの当時では珍しかったのではないか？江戸時代の女、子供まで一般庶民の識字率の高さは異常とも言えますね。 「浮世絵」「歌舞伎」「寿司」「天ぷら」「華道」「茶道」「武道」などが今現代に見える日本文化と言えるもののがこの頃確立し、洗練され成熟した時代です。

[@karenchae1]

My understanding is that wasn’t a flash forward, it was a dream. The guy Blackthorn is based on never left Japan.

[@ellingtonGaming]

Yea

[@JoeRandoms]

agree. i believe it a dream, but thats only after having watched it twice. i originally did think it was a flash forward like most ppl seem to be thinking.

[@Cander5142]

This. It was a dream of his life after leaving Japan, but then it flashing to it one last time before he attempts to end his life was him letting that dream go.

[@kukiesstuff9428]

Maybe that is why it is titled "A dream of a dream".

[@jakewolf079]

The real Blackthorn is William Adams (Anjin) and yes he never left Japan, Togukawa (Toranaga) even allowed him go back to the UK to see his wife & kids but he decided to stay.

[@diosdadonon1179]

Actually the historical Tokugawa Ieyasu started a 250 year period of peace. It was a tyrannical peace, but there were no wars amongst the Japanese for 250 years.

[@Cander5142]

“Your nation of peace didn’t last very long”. It lasted for like 250 years after the real life character became Shogun. Minus some smaller battles here and there but Japan was no longer a bunch of warring states fighting all the time.

[@tomatodo375]

In fact, United States forced Japan to open its trade, but any war didn't happen between US and Japan at the time. On the other hand, the British fleet shot cannons to Japanese civilians in Anglo-Satsuma war (1863). This war triggered the revolution and Meiji restoration directly.

[@nont18411]

@@lucasbelmonte2832 Imagine in a current day and age, there is one leader who might be a dictator but he managed to end all wars in the Middle East and made a government that caused a peaceful era in that region for almost 300 years, will we consider him a bad guy?

[@taktktk5240]

250年後　明治維新の新政府と内戦 その後氏族Samuraiの反乱戊辰戦争 ラストサムライへ続く 按針は息子の代まで栄えた

[@KaiOcean]

The most clueless reactors.

[@KINGSUNA]

Blackthorne was on the precipice. The dream was what could have happened had he held onto the past. His past life as an Englishman - where Japan was a savage land that he was only concerned with his war with the Catholic forces. In that life/dream within a dream (hence the title), he has not been able to let go. However, during this episode, and at that pivotal scene on the hilltop with Toranaga, Blackthorne tells Toranaga that he has moved on from his past life/past "small" wars. By initiating seppuku, he shows that he has moved on from the past life. By releasing Mariko's rosary into the water, he has truly let go, and embraced that he has become a true samurai. By the way, if you listen to the official podcast for the episode, James Clavell's daughter talks about how special that scene was. When James died, the family spread his ashes in the same waters and in the same general area (she grew up in that area/North Vancouver). The official podcasts are very good and worth a listen.

[@michaellockhart554]

John never leaves Japan, notice the cross he held in bed is the same cross he dropped in the bay, it would have been John if he hadn't attempted sepuku and realized his place in Japan

[@mob2ymd]

Toranaga did not play chess simply because he wanted to be a general. It was because he believed that the construction of peace was essential for the sacrifices of many close associates to make a country without war. After this, what other country has been without war for more than 260 years created by Ieyasu (Toranaga)? The history of the United States is about 240 years, isn't it? It is totally different in orientation from any dictatorship or various historical leaders of other countries. This is why we are Japanese.

[@Andrei2patrU]

Hello, please don't take it to heart. You are correct that the peace achieved through the Tokugawa Shogunate is unique in its length and it's a shame it did not last longer. I write the following text after reading your last 3 lines, excuse me if I understood you wrong. But if not: after such a long period of peace, the Japanese proved that they are no better than anyone else by invading and ravaging other countries and their cultures, acting as superior human beings and treating others as animals. Not only did the country not right many of the wrongs committed then by at least teaching them but also proudly dismisses them leading to an increasing nationalistic fervor. I don't know why the United States was brought up :) (their are Scottish). If I read you wrong, I apologize. In that case, my comment stands without relation to yours

[@mob2ymd]

@@Andrei2patrU My point was that during the Tokugawa Shogunate, there were no wars. Looking around the world, there is no country or leader that has not been at war invading other countries for more than 260 years. In this sense, the Tokugawa lineage was valuable.

[@Andrei2patrU]

@@mob2ymd you're right. It was a unique long period of peace and prosperity

[@threemeters1425]

“Your nation of peace didn’t last very long” Lol his peace lasted more than thrice as long than America’s post-WWII period

[@niku6574]

If you don't like people seeing your reactions and saying things, I think you should just close the comments section. KZbin has that feature. Another option is to leave only the comments you like and delete the others.

[@SuzySteejo]

I wouldn't upload my reaction if I didn't want people to see it lol. That's silly. What I don't appreciate is people not accepting that there are different opinions and reactions to scenes. The YT comment section are really immature sometimes and it's sad to see. - Suz

[@Centsword]

I felt the same way when I initially watched the finale. Underwhelmed probably from hype and unreasonable expectations after E9. Watching it a second time however, it really was the perfect ending to the series. Masterpiece.

[@rauliuxaa]

Really liked the moment whenn Toranaga said ''Why tell a dead man the future'' it was a reference to what Yabushige said about Toranaga to Omi in the early episodes, which could only mean Omi was working for Taoranaga from the start. Amazing short reference.

[@CharifRocka]

She is the strongest woman character I've seen in any media. Hard disagree with y'all..

[@schemea]

47:52 a couple of hundred years of peace sounds like quite a while tho.

[@hepunk]

50:45 She said was SUPPOSED to bury them in her family temple but hadn't because she wanted to be close to them. By burying them at sea she is always close to them in a sense.

[@kevinlin343]

Because of this, she could always look out at the sea and remember them.

[@iyi553]

yes! perfect ending! 10 out of 10!

[@user-qx5gu1qt5x]

Why did Fuji say she would become a nun? In that period, it was customary for the wives of High-ranking samurai become nuns after the death of their husbands. It means to be loyal to their husband.　 However, in a political sense, they were sometimes forced to remarry someone by order.

[@kengo7273]

Toranaga allowed her to become a nun because Crimson Sky was completed. She was one of his pawns and her mission was completed too.

[@rafeesalman8388]

Tokugawas dynasty ruled japan for over 250 years.

[@srhdt]

Yeah, not exactly sure why Steejo thought otherwise in the reaction.

[@cpegg5840]

Then Emperor Meiji ended the shogunate.

[@SuzySteejo]

I said his nation of peace didn't last. - Steejo

[@nont18411]

@@SuzySteejo It lasted for 2 centuries and a half though. The United States, as of now, is 248 years old. The peaceful era that Toranaga built was quite long.

[@SuzakuX]

​@@nont18411that's sort of glossing over a lot of history. There were still wars and rebellions, widespread persecution, it still operated as a feudal system and essentially a military dictatorship. It was peaceful and unified compared to the Sengoku period, though, and saw great development in arts and culture.

[@cliveklg7739]

Namazu is a mythical creature in Japanese folklore. This giant catfish is believed to live deep under the earth and is responsible for causing earthquakes and tsunamis by thrashing its tail. That is what Yabushiga is referring to. The older version of Blackthorn is just a dream on his part.

[@michaellockhart554]

My only disappointment is Yabu's death poem is so juvenile, the one in the book was Mariko worthy, Yabu's death poem as written by James Clavelle What are clouds But an excuse for the sky What is Life But an escape from death

[@akeemcase2481]

Blackthorne's dream was to return home to England and be rich from the scene in the room ( being the 1st Englishman to sail east which would make him famous) and while unconscious he had a dream of his dream to return home, but in truth never returned home and took the name Miura Anjin

[@rawrcofcof4814]

Great TV shows are Great TV shows because they end

[@KVINTUS7]

basically that was his vision when he had fever and was scared.... we can clearly see that he is heading towards the peaceful and a good samurai path rather than waht he was at the beginning of the show

[@TheBigSpino]

Toranaga's secret heart was subtly revealed between Yabushige and Toranaga when they smiled at each other. He sacrificed everyone close to him: Jinsai (Mariko's father), Nagakado, Hiromatsu, Mariko, and even Yabushige. He was never a good guy. He wanted power and he was willing to do anything to achieve it. He wanted to be Shogun.

[@kukiesstuff9428]

He was the real villain.

[@DejectedCat]

He did manage the bring about 250 years of peace in Japan with his Shogunate. So there's that. But yeah, Tokugawa Ieyasu, whom Toranaga was based on, weren't exactly considered a heroic figure in Japanese history, despite of the peace and stability he brought. Simply because of how he claimed his power.

[@nont18411]

@@DejectedCat You can’t just win the war and conquer the country just by being nice. I mean, great leaders like Alexander, Julius Caesar and Napoleon. None of them are nice people, aren’t they?

[@zimvader25]

He wanted peace and thought the only way to achieve it was by taking over. He wasn’t a bad guy. Not even close. He did what he had to do and gave Japan peace for nearly 300 years.

[@zimvader25]

@@DejectedCathe’s not considered a bad person either nor does he have a history of it. He was a very calculated man and did what he thought he had to for his country. Up until that point there were too many petty squabbles.

[@buntado6]

The narrative purpose of battles in fiction comes from not knowing whether they will win or lose, often the result of circumstances making it an unavoidable and rushed reaction, like a doomsday scenario AKA GoT's White Walkers. But Toranaga, as someone that is in a purely political conflict and doesn't see glory in war, will never go to one if he's not 100% sure he's already won it. The moment the pieces he needed to adjust fell into place, victory was assured, and there was no narrative mystery left to explore in the battle itself.

[@vipaonam9546]

I think its interesting when Toronaga said to the hawk " Bear many daughters" i felt like it was a way of him honouring Mariko maybe.

[@stevenmichaelcatanus7736]

I disagree that Mariko's sacrifice was one of "subservience" she fully understood her purpose and was brave enough to do it.

[@SuzySteejo]

Her purpose was to die for another person's cause. We call that subservience. - Steejo

[@FlashlegendSC]

@@SuzySteejo And that cause was to bring a long lasting peace to her country, which she fully understood because she understood and knew Toranaga well. That is not subservience. It's selflessness. I have to say, you guys had a very poor understanding of the characters in this show and the themes being presented. I also find it laughable you call Mariko subservient. If she was so subservient, why did she rebuke her husband, someone she was duty bound to obey, right up until the end?? Even if she was duty bound to follow Toranaga's will, she only did so because she believed in him and the future which he would bring to Japan.

[@alanfoster6589]

The ship is called the "Erasmus", after one of the greatest European philosophers. Appropriate for this show and for Blackthorne/Adams, too. "To stop learning is to start to die".

[@dwnkaomwn3953]

Blackthorne said in episode 3 that he has a son and a daughter, but he's never met the latter.

[@cpegg5840]

Toranaga is an antihero to me, not a villain. He loves his country, but will manipulate anyone to get what he wants to achieve peace in Japan.

[@nont18411]

He is certainly a villain but a necessary one. He sacrificed a few lives to end the war and bring peace to the nation.

[@Jakeylicious7891]

​@@nont18411 He didn't sacrifice anyone. Those people offered their lives to the cause. You keep forgetting that everything they've done so far was for the bigger purpose. Even before Mariko was a child, Mariko's father and Torunaga had already planned for this dream of a peaceful Japan, (not only fo r himself but I suppose Mariko's father too) to happen. Even Torunaga didn't want Crimson Sky because he knew it involved Mariko's death. And who initially suggested this? The old man, his second in command, who without batting an eyelid suggested it without hesitation. If Torunaga's offer were to give it to a Western woman, she'd refuse at first and then later on reconsider that it''s for the greater cause. The only difference is, Japanese culture forced women to be subservient, but in Mariko's case, she offered herself because she knew it was for the betterment of the whole of Japan. Selfless people regardless of race would offer themselves for this greater cause if it meant for the betterment of their entire nation/country. That's why in history, people have offered their lives for such endeavor because it meant they're doing it for something higher than them.

[@joeyartk]

@@Jakeylicious7891 Except in reality Mariko would be at home taking care of the children and doing like Buntaro tells her to do. Not wandering around Toranaga's place acting like his chief assistant. Lol

[@easternlights3155]

​@@joeyartk Samurai women had a lot more freedom and status than we might think, especially in periods of conflict such as this one. She is a very high ranking samurai. She would definitely not be taking care of the kids, she has servants for that. Female samurai were expected to be able to defend their home by force or follow their husband into battle. Not to mention that Toranaga's authority over his clan is absolute. If he decides he wants Mariko attending him, neither custom, nor her husband have any say in the matter.

[@khaii13]

@@nont18411 America Nuked Japan to “end the war and prevent further loss of life down the line”. If Toranaga was a villain for sacrificing a few of his most treasured followers in order to be in a winning position in the final battle that unified Japan and ushered in 250 years of peace, what does that make America that dropped nukes over “Oriental mo keys” in order to win?

[@wildkatarn7141]

48:12 In the novel, as Toranaga is planning, he admits to himself that he spared Blackthorn because he wanted a FRIEND. He couldn't trust anyone in his court, not even his own sons. Blackthorn was someone he genuinely thought he could trust.

[@immortal5626]

There won't be a season 2

[@zacu373]

Просто уже все привыкли если сериал хорош то у него обязательно будет второй сезон. Как по мне что книга что первый сериал что этот закончилисб именно там где и должны.

[@johnmanole4779]

Yabu actually died after Tokugawa at 73 in real life

[@joeyartk]

Japan had peace for 250 years until American battleships showed up and forced Japan open. And we know how that ended up a hundred years later. Can never leave Asia alone, too much money to be made. Lol

[@nont18411]

So you are telling me that good ol’ Americans ruined the peaceful era that Toranaga, Mariko and Hiromatsu had built? Imagine my shock.

[@khaii13]

And then America Nuked them to “end the war and prevent further loss of life down the line”. If Toranaga was a villain for sacrificing a few of his most treasured men in order to be in a winning position in the final battle that unified Japan and ushered in 250 years of peace, what does that make America that dropped nukes over “Oriental mo keys” in order to win?

[@Bayartsengel]

You’re forgetting about the Boshin War in which Imperial troops fought with the Shogun forces fought a civil war in late 19th century. Also, Japan took big part in Russo-Japanese War and lesser role in WW1. So you’re facts here are quite flawed.

[@khaii13]

@@Bayartsengel the stuff you talked about happened AFTER America forced Japan’s ports open, Ending the 250 years of peace that Tokugawa managed to start through his actions at the end of the Sengoku Era. You do know that, right?

[@bluegypsy71]

Toranaga is a character with many shades of gray, he played the long game, the sacrifice of his loyalists were a part of the strategy, whether they were aware or not…it’s up to the viewer to decide whether it was worth it to sacrifice a few for the peaceful age it ushered in or whether he was a villain chasing his own ego driven ambitions. ❤💔Even Blackthorn came to the Japans with his own ambitions and made peace with his fate.

[@nont18411]

Hiromatsu and Mariko were aware of his plan. Mariko, in particular, knew full well that he’s gonna sacrifice her and she agreed to do it anyway.

[@bluegypsy71]

​@@nont18411 true, Mariko ended up being a martyr, which worked out best if she was going to die anyway both bc it didn't conflict with her faith (bc she didn't commit suicide technically) and she was able to lift the dishonor of her family and fulfill her duty to Toranaga.

[@khaii13]

⁠ America Nuked Japan to “end the war and prevent further loss of life down the line”. If Toranaga was a villain for sacrificing a few of his most treasured followers in order to be in a winning position in the final battle that unified Japan and ushered in 250 years of peace, what does that make America that dropped nukes over and killed 10’s if not 100’s of thousands of civilians for victory?

[@nont18411]

@@khaii13 I will say the quiet part put loud: People are mad at Toranaga onlybbecause he sacrificed their favorite characters like Mariko and Hiromatsu although both of them knew full well what his plan is and signed up to it willingly.

[@khaii13]

@@nont18411 and im calling them out for their Bias. You dont even need to understand eastern culture to get one simple fact: if those people did not die in the time and way they did, starting from the retainers and his baby in episode one, they would have all died anyway: those retainers included. Fact is, these people remained like Blackthorne of episode 1-5: calling a culture he does not understand bullshit and showing disdain towards them. They did not grow like Blackthorne did in this episode: even though he doesnt fully understand them, he learned to respect them, even appreciate it.

[@jacobchandler7642]

It's difficult to judge Toranaga. He sacrificed many of his own to achieve his goals, but many of those sacrifices were made willingly. Right or wrong, loyalty to the bitter end was a virtue in Japan back then. Toranaga's victory ushered in a lasting era of peace and prosperity, but does that justify his cold, calculating actions? I mean, the Romans considered themselves peace-keepers, but if you asked a citizen of any region they conquered, they would call Rome ANYTHING BUT peaceful. Ask the Christians who lived in Japan under the new Shogunate, they would say the same. Toranaga is probably more just and reasonable (and definitely more clever) than his fellow regents, so perhaps the ends justify the means. But the same virtue of loyalty in the face of hopeless death that is praised in this era was weaponized by the Japanese Empire in WW2. Like the ancient Samurai, Japan's army & citizens believed it was more noble to throw away their lives in doomed attacks or commit mass suicides than submit to defeat. So much life wasted in a doomed war. So maybe Toranaga was right after all. His actions would be considered monstrous... unless he won.

[@philliesfan3414]

I think blackthorns as an old man was a dream of when he was unconscious. He’s holding Marikos cross when he’s old and he threw marikos cross in the ocean with her ashes

[@illinfinite]

Really enjoyed you two enjoying the series. It was a wonderful show that deserves all the praise and awards. Unfortunately, its extremely unlikely there is a season 2. The show ends here like the book ends. Toronaga already said what was going to happen (at this point who can deny his predictions), and ultimately it was BAMF Mariko-sama who won the war for him. Can't blame you for hating how people comment "you missed this" etc when they probably have already read the book, watched the episodes again, or read commentary explaining the episodes. But I think its just the passion they have for the show. I also thought the scenes of old man Anjin were "flash fowards" but they were just his dreams of the future. He only dreamt it when he was concussed / asleep, saw it slipping away when he decided to sacrifice his life, and his future was sealed when he gave up Mariko's rosary to the sea. I also missed the smirk Toranaga and Yabushige had with each other before the beheading. Probably letting Yab's know he does desire to be Shogun.

[@ngocquoc2828]

The Taiko story in war with Toranaga also same when Tokugawa helping Oda clan members againts Hideyoshi

[@padderz]

The actual battle was not cinematic. It was a mess.So many little nuggets are glimpsed at here. Toranaga was a great leader, but he was not necessarily a good man. He brings Mariko in under his banner, marries her off, ensure she remains close to Blackthorne and then uses her to essentially win the war. He has broken John and now brings him in. He knows Ochiba will never change alliances for him, but he also knows her only goal is to protect her son. She finally changes her allegiance because it is made clear to her that only under Toranaga will her son truly be safe, out of aim of the other ruling families/warlords etc. The last words Toranaga says to Yabu are, why tell a dead man the future. Which is what Yabu says to his nephew in Ep1 about Toranaga, meaning that Omi has been telling Toranaga what Yabu was thinking all along. Ishido is not wrong, Toranaga was increasing his power and did bring an end to feudal Japan. In the end though, Toranaga took up the mantle of Shogun for only two years before handing it down to his son, whilst Japan closed itself off under peace for over two hundred years.

[@tomiwilliams4273]

he never left Japan

[@user-bo1ws2fz6q]

Yabushige was looking for a chance to be forgiven by Toranaga until the very end. However, as soon as he realized that this was not going to happen, he committed seppuku without any manner of ceremony. I thought that Yabushige lived as he wished until the very end.

[@paramitch]

Thanks for the fun reactions! Just a few notes a month or so later in case it helps -- the show has been renewed for 2 more seasons. John's future was only a dream. It is revealed to be a dream when he throws away Mariko's cross (in the dream he still has it). He will never leave Japan (as Toronaga confirms). I agree that this episode lacked some of the fire of battle and was quieter, but I found it very moving, and a gorgeous ending.

[@KA-bv5se]

家康をモデルとしたトラナガです。徳川の江戸幕府は260年続きます。

[@kimtoannhan7275]

Hello japanese friend, i have heard somewhere that William Adam ( real life Anjin-San) did participate in the battle of Sekigahara as an officer who commanded the Tokugawa's cannon regiment. Please confirm if this is true. Thank you!

[@smari3290]

@@kimtoannhan7275 　Japanese.　I just now found this description. 　It was in 1600 that the Liefde drifted ashore at Usuki, Bungo. This was six months before the Battle of Sekigahara, a battle that divided the country, when Anjin was 36 years old. During the Battle of Sekigahara, a cannon was fired to threaten and urge Kobayakawa Hideaki, who had been ambiguous in his attitude toward Ieyasu's Eastern Army, but this cannon was landed from the Liefde and was operated by the crew of the Liefde. That is why their artillery was of great use as a breakthrough in the Battle of Sekigahara.

[@kimtoannhan7275]

@@smari3290 wow that is so interesting! Thank you very much for the information! Anjin-San did so much although he spend only 6 months in Japan is beyond crazy. He must be incredibly intelligence. And Tokugawa's clan has indeed throw everything they have in this battle. They even use a foreigner with unclear intention to participate in their "win or die" battle. Mr.Adams's life is no doubt one of the most fascinating life ever. I wonder if japanese school mentions William Adams in the history books for students ?

[@temari-wl7yb]

​@@kimtoannhan7275Japanese must remember the name of the ship and William Adams and his Japanese name because they will be on the Japanese history test.

[@kimtoannhan7275]

@@temari-wl7yb Thank you very much for the information!

[@mubarakusman9184]

How can they have a season 2 if season 1 adapted literally the entire book? At the end of the day, it’s an adaptation of a book and they did a great job in covering basically everything that happened in the book. Plus the book itself is based off actual history so there’s a limit to how many episodes they can do.

[@SuzySteejo]

I guess the limit is 2024 then... - Steejo

[@dimbose9229]

Sending Mariko is a win win for Toranaga. If she could bring hostage back to safety. Other noble families can also leave. Other lords are under less pressure from working with Ishido. Or Mariko die which give lawful reason to start war and possibly push Ochiba to break alliance with Ishido. Remember, Mariko is only one she had left from her past live before marriage. They were like sister.

[@ApplePotato]

The old John on his death bed is not real. I thinks its more of him trying to find clarity and closure in all of this. People always say there is a moment of clarity before you die, but it this case John knows he won't find it if he does not let go of Mariko.

[@yamaguen]

In real history, the Ochiba side did not send reinforcements to the Ishido-gun in the Battle of Sekigahara, and after the battle began, within Ishido's army, many samurais switched to Toranaga's side, and Ishido's army suffered a major defeat. Thereafter, two major wars occurred between Toranaga and the Ochiba side, who were trying to reduce the power of the Ochiba side, and the Ochiba side met a spectacular end by being bombarded by cannon fire brought by the Dutch. There, the 150-year-long Grate War Era in Japan came to an end, and under the regime established by Toranaga, there were no more wars in Japan for 260 years. I think this TV series did a good job of portraying the complex and somewhat contradictory character of Tokugawa Ieyasu, who was born in the Era Great War, and was sent from one samurai family to another as hostage in his childhood, and after growing up exercised numerous schemes of power, buried hostile forces, and created the Era Great Peace.

[@kazuhisanakatani1209]

If Season 2 is going to come to be, it should be set during the Siege of Osaka in 1614-1615. There are a lot of political conspiracies surrounding that event -- as well as battles and deaths.

[@thomasolson1154]

His empire lasted over 200 years with minimal internal strife.

[@majemaje0805sweetvoice]

The novel has ended, but Japanese history is about to get more interesting. I want to see the fight with Ishido (Battle of Sekigahara) please make season 2 Also, Ochiha no Kata, who defected to Toranaga and led him to victory in the Battle of Sekigahara, and his son's battle between Toranaga's (winter camp) and (summer camp) to attack the impregnable Osaka Castle. I want to see General should be seasoned

[@SuzakuX]

There was also a few conflicts between Japanese mercantile ships and the Portuguese navy off the coast of Macau, some of the historical figures involved appeared in the book but were left out of the show. That incident sprawled into a conspiracy involving some of Tokugawa's Christian vassals and was one of the factors that led to the outlawing of Christianity and expulsion of the Catholic and Jesuit missionaries from Japan. Start with Blackthorne returning to Japan through the Champa Sea with Johann Vinsck (his Dutch first mate), Urama no Tadamasa (his apostate Jesuit retainer), and Harima Tadao (a Christian lord) following their maiden expeditionary voyage to South East Asia to open up trade routes for the shogunate, and have the fleet encounter the Portuguese while passing Macau. If they were inclined, the could definitely fictionalize those incidents and weave in a new narrative setting up the war between Toranaga and Yaechiyo. Introduce Toranaga's eldest son and daughter, adjust timelines a tad to have his daughter (rather than granddaughter) get betrothed to Yaechiyo, spend a season building up that cast, then do a final third season depicting the Winter and Summer campaigns, with Blackthorne and Vinsck negotiating with the Dutch East India company to supply Toranaga with the cannons used to intimidate Ochiba into suing for peace and the other weapons used to breach and torch Osaka, in exchange for allowing the Dutch to retain an exclusive port in Tsukishima. It definitely could work.

[@tomiwilliams4273]

the grave of Miura Anjin is in Tsukayama park, in Yokosuka, Kanagawa, Japan.

[@americanandpinay]

My wife was going to be a nun. She had taken the courses and was on the "last chance" furlough before vows when we met.

[@souless08]

I am pretty sure he didn't let John do it because he wanted to have a last conversation with him before he died and also perhaps to make sure he suffered a few seconds longer than angry John would have let him.

[@doncacique2769]

William Adams which is who blackthorne is based on wasn't allowed to leave Japan so that scene where he was old had to be a dream

[@americanandpinay]

It was John's dream of dying old and rich in his bed according to the aftershow.

[@opensesame8888]

In real history he was allowed to go home but didnt get along with the Europeans who came to Japan with the European ship. He died at 52 or 53.

[@americanandpinay]

@@opensesame8888 After Adams' arrived in Japan, he became a key advisor to the shōgun Tokugawa Ieyasu. Under his authority, Adams directed construction of the first Western-style ships in the country. He was later part of Japan's approving the establishment of trading factories by the Netherlands. Although eventually given permission to return home to England, he ultimately decided to remain in Japan. Leaving would have seen him dishonored. He became highly involved in Japan's red seal trade, chartering and serving as captain of four expeditions to Southeast Asia. He died in Japan at age 55. He has been recognized as one of the most influential foreigners in Japan during this period.

[@Geezman1977]

Buntaro and Blackthorne finally both bound in their loyalty to Toranaga and their loss of Mariko.

[@khaii13]

“The Ogre lost his precious Leafless Branch the moment he crushed the Flower underfoot; sisters in the end, after all” 「オーガは、彼が足元に花を押しつぶした瞬間に、彼の貴重な葉のない枝を失いました。結局のところ、姉妹」 For the first time in the entire series, Ochiba sama looks directly to Ishido while talking to him; in all other episodes, she glances at him but looks away. That was the most subtle, passive-aggressive death stare I have seen on screen to date.🫣 Yabushige and Toranaga smirking at each other in the end was awesome, too. Yabushige got the best end he could have gotten, considering all he has done: realizing that whether he knew it or not, he has served his Lord Toranaga excellently. And maybe, just maybe, lightening the burden in his conscience a bit, afterall: a future Toranaga victory will never come to pass if Mariko did not die INSIDE of Osaka. An understanding passed between them, no words needed to be said: Toranaga desires to be Shogun, afterall. Goodbye to our favourite sociopath. Blackthorne kills a possible future version of himself-an old man, filled with regret, clutching on to Mariko’s crucifix-by mirroring Mariko (literally doing a ritual su!c!d3 like a woman [a blade through the heart] instead of seppuku [slicing his belly open] like a samurai would) in order to protect Ajiro: the first completely selfless thing he has done in the show; and also by letting that exact same crucifix go into the water along with the ashes of Fuji-sama’s family. And to think he did all those things mostly as an act of kindness to Fuji-sama… she deserves the best. 🥹🥹 "I forcced fate to gaze upon me so that I can pluck its eyes out" -Ochiba no Kata Also, the fact that Anjin used the word 詰まらない【つまらない】 (tsumaranai) when he said “my war is small” can also be translated to “my wars are petty/trivial/silly/worthless” in reference to his ambitions and designs for England and his war against the Catholics. That was him letting go of his personal ambitions for something greater. The entire show (and the novel it was based on) was one giant setup to place Toranaga in a position to win the final battle. The broad strokes of the scenario for the final battle were revealed, but the details of the final battle plan (along with the final politics to fully turn all the lords who now have a soured opinion of Ishido) and how the battle actually ensued are still hidden. So who is ready for a “new/separate” mini-series or feature film titled “Sekigahara”? Ohhh, and what was Toranaga holding in his left hand just before it cut to the title card? Crimson Herring!

[@armanisar-feinial1789]

I'm not a dirty skipper!

[@TheGhost-7002]

I’m curious why you thought that his era of peace didn’t last long? Is there something you heard that said otherwise, like the stories of the 47 Ronin or something? I just want to clarify this isn’t me being condescending or sarcastic I’m genuinely curious what could have caused the confusion.

[@SuzySteejo]

Legit just meant to say "it didn't last" and said "it didn't last long". - Steejo

[@TheGhost-7002]

@@SuzySteejo I mean, his dynasty lasted 260 years. Off course nothing lasts forever, but I’d say it lasted considering it held total power and kept the nation at peace longer than the United States has been a thing. Btw the Edo period is equally as fascinating as the Sengoku period and I recommend looking at stories from it such as that of Miyamoto Musashi and the 47 Ronin. A lot of what we commonly associate with the Samurai come from this period. Fascinating stuff. Edit: I also want to add that you could argue that Toranaga himself didn’t keep the peace after the war for long as his real life model Tokugawa Ieyasu went to war with Toyotomi Hideyori (the heir) and Yodo Dono (Lady Ochiba) in the conflicts known as the sieges of Osaka. These conflicts were basically a way for Ieyasu to secure his dynasty’s safety and prevent the heir or his descendants from making a claim. Eventually Hideyori and his army were defeated. Yodo Dono and Hideyori committed seppuku in Osaka castle. I remember you guys said you visited Osaka castle once so you may have seen the site where they did it, it’s at the foot of the keep of the castle. It’s a large rock with inscriptions written into it which normally has flowers placed around it. The heads of Hideyori, Yodo Dono and Hideyori’s infant son were brought before Ieyasu who knew his dynasty was now secure. The amount of heads collected were said to fill the road from Osaka to Kyoto. Leaving a brutal message to those that thought of rebelling against the Shogunate in the future.

[@SomLoski]

I think that his old bed might have been a hallucination. Let go of rosary in water. and when he’s about to seppeku he looks right , and the old him appears then he re faces foward and sticks his chin up. Essentially rejecting that he’ll live to be old. Sooooo was he hallucinating?

[@carriesmith742]

13:25 john told Mariko when he met her that he already had ! Son and a daughter he hadn't met yet so we already knew he had kids.

[@agt_bgt9362]

William Adams, also known as Miura Anjin, presented Japan's first Western-style sailing ship to the Shogun, Tokugawa Ieyasu. He was Japan's first Western samurai. Even today, there is a William Adams Memorial Park in Japan, where a society is held to honor his achievements. British Ambassador to Japan, Dutch, British, Mexican, and Japanese people who edge to Anjin participate. There is also a William Adams Club (WAC) in Japan. I enjoyed your reaction videos. Thank you so much.

[@luisantonio8281]

It was very common amongst noble women in many cultures around the world to devote themselves into religious institutions at some point in their lives. The reason varies for everyone really but a common one was to leave all the politics behind. As a noblewoman, Fuji would probably end up remarrying someone in order to forge alliances for her clan. But she probably couldn’t endure another marriage and start a new family after what happened to her last one.

[@josephstimpfl4594]

Especially if they are widowed.

[@kigoroful]

史実に基づけば、この戦いの真の頂点は15年後の大坂の陣であり、淀殿（Ochiba no kata）が徳川（Toranaga）と直接対峙することになる。 この時にAnjinが持ち込んだ大砲が大活躍します。 したがって、この歴史的な出来事に基づいた続編があるかもしれません。

[@kwokyingcheng699]

Mariko negiotiated with the church the burning of Eramus for saving Blackthorne's life. However, she could never betray Toranaga by sinking his ship behind his back. She had to seek Toranaga's approval beforehand.

[@widgetgtr3596]

Sorry if I appear to be a dirty skipper and you answer this in the end chat but my lunch break ends in about 45 seconds and there’s about 10min left so….. Any chance of a Fallout reaction??

[@SuzySteejo]

We are thinking about it. - Suzy

[@derekchin6403]

The old man sequence was a dream. See title of the episode.

[@ChristopherVaughn]

I'm happy to have stumbled upon you two and your reactions to SHOGUN. The series was great and you both are very amusing. 👍

[@kristianharada9514]

Jon and Fugi bang in the books. But it's more dutiful than anything

[@sohmingjian]

In e old series Fuji jump off a bridge. In the ending, e last scene suggest a possiblity tat Fuji & John let go of their past & move on together. She initial plan 2 bury their ashes in e temple & 2 be close to them stay in e temple as a nun. But spreading their ashes in e water mean she need not become a nun but stay in her village

[@jm-ms2ri]

死んでる所で笑わないで欲しい。だから欧米人は、、、て思う。

[@SuzySteejo]

If your head gets chopped off and rolls down a cliff then I might have a chuckle. - Steejo

[@opensesame8888]

この二人が特別だと思う。他の欧米人は悲しんでいる方が多い。この二人のレビューはあまり参考にならない。日本の文化や価値観を合わない欧米人は多様性に溢れる欧米のポリコレコンテンツを見ればいいのに・・・特にイギリスの時代モノは黒人貴族出て来るほど先進的ですからね。日本人なら秒で見るの止めるけど。

[@user-si7so1kb5j]

それは別によくね？欧米人に限ったことじゃねーし 自分が気に入ってる作品を腐された気になるのかもしれないが、なんじゃこりゃ？失敗作じゃね？と思えば笑うこともあるし 人は人と学ぼうよ 嫌ならわざわざ欧米人のリアクション動画見ないほうがよくね？ なんのために見てるの？見張りの気分？

[@alistelum404]

この人たちのEP.8の反応見た？ 他のチャンネルよりもエモーショナルな反応だったよ でもEP.9でちょっとしらけちゃってそんなに本気に見られなくなった人も多いようだね 自分もそうだし だからあまり過剰反応で批判するのは幼稚だよ

[@opensesame8888]

@@alistelum404 この二人の主張は「批判は自由でしょ？」というものなので、彼らの反応を視聴者が批判することも受け入れるべきですね。どうしてこの二人の批判は自由なのにこの二人の反応の批判は制限されるのか。どちらも対等であるべきです。

[@Luminous2023]

What happened to the breaking bad series ?

[@teongreen5254]

9:24 Yeah thank god she did that. It shows that she was loyal to him like every other male samurai. If she had betrayed him it would have painted females in a very bad light...

[@drsavage3262]

The title of the episode simply explains why John never leaves Japan.. it's literally a dream within a dream.. inception ya know!

[@smari3290]

Anjin Miura actually died of illness in Hirado, Nagasaki Prefecture, in 1620 at the age of 56. 　Hirado prospered as a center of foreign trade at the time, but due to national isolation, the trade base was moved to Nagasaki. The map shows the site of the Dutch trading post and the grave of Anjin Miura. An English trading post was also built here, and ships from England came to Nagasaki, but Adams had a bad relationship with the captain of the ship, Sailis, and reluctantly gave up the idea of returning to his homeland. Adams worked hard to trade with Siam and other countries to earn money for his return (he could not return without wealth and honor), but in the meantime, he contracted malaria and fell ill in his mansion in Hirado, where he met his end.

[@smari3290]

Anjin Miura was ordered by Ieyasu to build a Western-style sailing ship, and he chose Ito on the Izu Peninsula as the site. The first ship was an 80-ton, and a few years later, a 120-ton ship was built. The first ship was of 80 tons, and a few years later, another of 120 tons was built.　　Near the mouth of the river, there is a bust of William Adams, a monument commemorating the site where the first Japanese-style sailing ship was built, and a monument to the San Buena Ventura, the second Western-style sailing ship built. In addition, tile paintings depicting the construction of sailing ships have been installed along the riverbank promenade.

[@joeyartk]

If you're Chinese you can criticize Japan in WW2, the American Empire and British Empire have nothing to say. Not a single American or British soldier was killed or captured in the USA or Britain. They all died far away protecting their colonies. The Japanese were very lenient by letting any of them live after capture.

[@SuzySteejo]

So we are supposed to just accept the "Rape of Nanjing" because it was against Chinese people? That's OK because they didn't do it to westerners? Damn dude, you might want to rethink that. - Steejo

[@inoko3423]

中国が日本を批判する資格があるのは同意します。何故なら日本は中国を占領したから。ただし中国が嘘の歴史を世界に流布してる事実も指摘しておきますね😕例えば日本軍によって３０万人が南京で虐殺されたと言われてますが、これは中国政府が作ったフィクションです。当時の南京の人口は20万人で日本軍が占領した後は２５万人に増えている。

[@SuzySteejo]

This is pure denial. There has been first hand reports documented from troops who were directly involved in the atrocities. IIRC the Japanese government has even acknowledged and apologized for it. And that's a singular incident, never mind the release of chemical weapons over the Chinese populous that's also well documented. - Steejo

[@inoko3423]

@@SuzySteejo中国政府の嘘を信用されると悲しいです。当時の南京の人口は２５万人。これは国連の調査でも明らかです。しかし中国は日本軍が占領して３０万人が亡くなったと主張してる。

[@inoko3423]

@@SuzySteejo当時の南京には世界各国の新聞記者がいたが南京で３０万人が亡くなったと記事を書いた国はありません。そして３０万人の遺体も見つかっていません。地面を掘ると第二次世界大戦より前の遺体は発掘されるのに。。そもそも当時の南京の人口は２０万人です。日本政府が謝罪したのは占領した事実であって虐殺した事実は認めていません。勿論、戦争なので何千人かは亡くなったでしょうけど

[@myoujinnfuru5649]

戦えば必ず勝つ。とは戦う前に既に決着している、お前は既に死んでいる！

[@Mugen3]

I really enjoyed getting this far with you guys! Thank you so much!

[@vecna2502]

Scottish? Regardless, loved your reaction. You two seem a great couple. Truly.

[@99Doogs]

Where is breaking bad

[@neezduts69420]

Netflix

[@RatedRY]

"Why tell a dead man the future?" This is actually something Yabushige tells his nephew earlier on in the show in regards to Taranga meaning, the traitor that he had been looking for the whole time was his nephew. The old samurai guy we were shown was probably just a red herring.

[@medhisc_3041]

Anna sawai ❤ thank you

[@Damon_Washington]

The nun was prettier in my opinion

[@jangodoublecrosser6317]

shogun kayooooo

[@troublemethis17]

there are a lot of good things put into this series, but having seen the original tv series, you can't help but compare... both good and bad. the fetishization of japanese culture, past and present, is quite strange. you should be allowed to say the ease at which heads are chopped off is disturbing. good version al said. i reserve trepidation at the money grab that ensues extending shogun to a 2nd and 3rd season w some of the same cast and no literary source to work from. we all know what happened to GOT. perhaps it will be satisfactory going the historical route, treacherous as that may be.

[@drsavage3262]

Mariko is crimson sky 💯

[@drsavage3262]

If you want to know everything you guys should read the books. What an incredible story! Cheers

[@samosamo777]

岡目八目”Third parties can understand the truth of things better than the parties involved.” ネットで中世の日本を語っている日本人は、中世のドラマに慣れているので、行動パターンを予測する事はできる。しかし本当には理解していない。 私は日本史が好きで色んな本を読むが、日本人を上手く説明してしているのは、3世紀の中国人、13世紀のモンゴル人、16世紀のキリスト宣教師、19世紀のイギリス人とフランス人、これらの人です。 ところで一つ質問があります。あなた達はアメリカ人？イギリス人？ Japanese people who talk about medieval Japan online are familiar with medieval dramas, so they can predict behavior patterns. But I don't really understand. I like Japanese history and read many books, but the ones that explain the Japanese people well are the 3rd century Chinese, the 13th century Mongolians, the 16th century Christian missionaries, and the 19th century British. The French, these guys. By the way, I have one question. Are you Americans? Englishman?

[@SovermanandVioboy]

I think they are from Scotland. Interesting point of view, btw.

[@opensesame8888]

@@SovermanandVioboy They seem to be some what Anglo-Saxon to me though. Anglo-Saxon are the ones who accuse Japanese the most. My Scottish friends were always hostile to the England and Britain. They get offended if I say they are British.

[@chadnine3432]

The only complaint I have is how Toranaga explained his plan to Yabushige. A whole scene of exposition. What saved it is the writing and acting carried that scene. Otherwise, the end was fitting. We knew Toragana was a schemer and his schemes turned out to be the best ones. "If you win, anything is possible." Thank you for the reaction videos! The next best thing to watching the show was watching the reaction videos people put out afterwards.

[@MrChaosi]

oh blackthorn never leaves japan, old blacktohnr was his dream of returning home

[@YourMajesty733]

6:22 "commit sudoku" 😂😂😂

[@rdh-daliasjb3796]

Mariko's death was the reason for peace! A month later, Sekigahara, tens of thousands die.

[@opensesame8888]

Battle of Sekigahara ended after 6 hours.

[@rdh-daliasjb3796]

@@opensesame8888 And...?! Not only were there an estimated 30,000+ deaths during the battle, there were countless numbers killed after and also in other conflicts going on at the same time between the two sides.

[@lordtains]

They shouldn't have put in the dream of Blackthorne of an old man. Everyone thinks it's a flashforward, and therefore knows he will not die when he threatens to commit seppuku. Takes away the stress of the scene, and also confuses viewers unnecessarily.

[@SuzySteejo]

I 100% agree with you. It ruined suspense in a lot of scenes then caused confusion when he put Marikos cross in the water. Bad writing. - Suzy

[@insertname3919]

@@SuzySteejoagree but don’t think it was a flash forward I think it was Blackthorne dreaming and what could have been if he went back to England but he never does return there as the true historical person he was based on never returned.