The Philadelphia Subway - Market Frankford Line (It's small but is it efficient?)

[@timosha21]

Right across the river from Philadelphia is this odd - diesel tram(lightrail) that operates in Camden, New Jersey! kzbin.info/www/bejne/maXYg5uVgaaFqLM

[@PhilipSalen]

Sort of crazy, old fashioned, and anti-environmental to run that diesel tram- that line should be electric with catenary wires.

[@videonut1988]

@@PhilipSalen, those LRVs are diesel electric hybrids. First in the nation. Hudson-Bergen and Newark Light Rails fit your speed.

[@dtvjho]

That line wasn't always there. It was put in around 2004.

[@TonyAnnechino]

@@dtvjho No. The River Line was constructed on what originally was the Camden-Bordentown section and the Bordentown-Trenton Branch of the Camden & Amboy Railroad (C&A). The lines ran under the C&A name between 1830 and 1871, when the line was absorbed into the Pennsylvania Railroad. Ownership proceeded under Penn Central (1968) and Conrail (1976) until June 1, 1999, but the original passenger service had been abandoned in 1963. ... Except at each end of the line, the River Line was Conrail's Bordentown Secondary until June 1, 1999, when NJ Transit bought it for $67.5 million. NJ Transit has exclusive access to run light rail passenger service on the line from 05:30 to 22:10 Sunday through Friday, and all of Saturday night and Sunday morning. Conrail has exclusive access for freight at other times. Either agency may request to use the line at abnormal times in case of a special event or emergency.

[@jpgm2015]

Definitely efficient in what it does with shipping ppl from the west in and out of downtown. After you pass 15th street you’re on the westside. The whole ride is about 40 minutes and it’s a pretty dense line

[@scottyerkes1867]

Good video!! This is probably the busiest rapid transit route in Philly. Hundreds of people come into the central business district every day. The entire route has been rehabbed and new cars replaced old cats Thanks Tim for sharing😀😀 And the fast nonstop run from 15th street to 30th street has always been very fast and thrilling!!

[@afcgeo882]

Hundreds? 🤣

[@scottyerkes1867]

@@afcgeo882 Yes hundreds. I know a few of them.

[@afcgeo882]

@@scottyerkes1867 😂 Try thousands.

[@dtvjho]

9:37 One of the new sign boards, not showing A-B express stops. I still think it was a major error for SEPTA to junk the express service on the El. It was first set up in the 1950s for a reason.

[@philadelphian7814]

I miss those A-B stops. Made taking the train slightly more bearable especially today smh

[@kim3982]

B train was more to skip stops to get anywhere faster so you didn't have to sit the whole time on a el for every stop it too bad these days it has ended sad to hear it did it made going to work or for those who did or dose faster or even shopping 🛍 .

[@libertubey2199]

I hear what your saying. But, according to SEPTA, they got rid of A-B Skip-Stop service was because of the growing amount of new residents along the line, particularly near Berks, Girard and 46th Street stations. Years earlier, they made 34th Street (A stop) & Spring Garden (B stop) stations local stops for similar reasons, plus because of the colleges and nightlife in these areas.

[@dtvjho]

@@libertubey2199 SEPTA is again lame. These new residents all knew that their nearest stop was A or B. And A/B is only used during rush. Killing AB is a disservice to all those coming the long haul from Bridge or 69th St. And regarding 34th, users there can walk a block to 33rd and catch a trolley

[@centredoorplugsthornton4112]

El fleet totals 222 cars. Absolute minimum of 144 cars needed for full schedule. Not always met. Cars were built in the 1990s and lately having mechanical and structural issues. Also operator availability causing delays and missed trips.

[@clivegregory8511]

Ridden the West Philly Market St El over decades though hardly the Frankford El. Love the surface running through Millbourne to Upper Darby. Looking forward to the direct (re)connection to 30th Street Station!

[@qolspony]

It sad that Philly can't and won't build any more lines like this.

[@BPSNL]

Not enough funding

[@dtvjho]

Not with the frauds running City Hall the past 60 years.

[@dtvjho]

The Roosevelt Blvd Subway has been at the top of the Federal DOT "new starts" list for 20+ years. With all these infrastructure bills, you'd think the $3B-6B for both the subway and US 1 expressway could have been paid for and completed by now. It's the idiots running the city blowing opportunity after opportunity. They have at least paid for 2 studies, why not get some preliminary design work done? Civil Engineering students could do this. Nobody in power has any imagination.

[@qolspony]

@@dtvjho Makes sense! Since Philly is a growing city with a growing economic base.

[@dtvjho]

@@qolspony Speaking of US1, it ties into I-76, the "Schuylkill Expressway". 76 is still 4 lanes, just like when it was built in the 1950s. There were plans to build a relief route before shutting 76 down for that major rebuild, but the 1978 inflation knee-jerk shutdown by Gov Milton Shapp left drivers from the north and northwest with no alternates to 76. More recently guys like us looked at a map and thought it would make sense to extend PA 309 southeast and tie it into the Betsy Ross Bridge, then rebuild 76 with 5 thru lanes on each side.

[@kathiejohns1418]

Great video!I ride this every week & was shouting out all the places!

[@dysontyronetd]

If only the M3 buds were here. I really miss those

[@dtvjho]

The Budd cars were the mainstay for so many years! Many people don't realize that the sides of the M4 cars are bent, the M3s (and the Broad St subway) cars were/are flat-sided. There was no physical reason for the M4 bend, I think it was the vendor reusing a design from somewhere else.

[@19brittani]

i rode the Broad street line as a youngster, then rode the EL as a young man to work everyday... good memories.

[@donnelladams8362]

I used to ride this train to Bridge and Pratt everyday for 5 years.

[@dtvjho]

2:23 the only location on the entire line where there is a 3rd track. It's only 6 cars long, used to store a train at times. Next to Spring Garden station on I-95

[@ogtripplog215iiiifffff]

U now gotta do da Broad Street Subway too

[@MustafaPekmezci]

Excellent video! Have a good weekend! Greetings!

[@dtvjho]

I've been on and off the El since 1974, the Subway in the 1980s. I remember a lot.

[@loocpoc]

Until they truly clean up the system and get rid of the current GM, don't expect the El to get better. SEPTA's management in the last 20 years has decimated the system. Routes which had express service were curtailed and the A-B skip stop system being done a way with has made the line slow down considerably. I thank the Lord I can either drive or take regional rail.

[@libertubey2199]

Not the SEPTA management, but rather the SEPTA Board.

[@CaseysTrains]

With all due respect, the Skip-Stop service was pointless with the ridership the El was getting at the time of it's cancelation. When you skip one stop for every 3 station you pass, you're only saving SECONDS off your trip. When added up, The El was only 2 minutes faster when skip-stop service was running. (There a plenty of cab ride videos on youtube who have proven this) . Also a lot of people also don't know or understand that skip-stop service isn't meant to even be an express in the first place. The main goal and purpose was crowd distribution so trains had more breathing room. Even today after COVID, The El get packed during peak hours. Since ridership at A-B Stops have grown it made no sense to run A-B trains to distribute crowds when all trains were crowded no matter what. Lastly, the El's trains are in horrible shape inside and out. They are known "Hanger Queens" and more often than not when A-B service was still around, it was dropped due to train or operator shortages. So stop exaggeration because trains are only 2 minutes slower making all stops.

[@roberthuron9160]

The Market- Frankfort line is the only subway,using under running third rail for power! The major user,of course,is Metro-North out of Grand Central! That was originally done by the New York Central,and was also used on the Detroit Tunnel,going to St. Thomas!! And add that,it and BART,are the only broad Guage subways operating! The M-F,is 5'-2and ahalf",and the BART,is 5'-6",thank you for the attention 🙂!

[@GamerRobYT]

Um what?

[@qolspony]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[@EpicThe112]

In metric Meters 1.588m Tracks Philadelphia Trams and Market Frankford Line BART 1.676m Indian Gauge even Spanish Gauge trains can run there. The third rail is the Wilgus Sprague system. Metro-North voltage is 750v DC Third rail Bottom Contact since the 1970s M1 EMA while Philly is 700v DC

[@roberthuron9160]

@@EpicThe112 You overlooked India,and I forgot to mention that Market-Frankford is also the same Guage as the New Orleans streetcars,that's an Duh,on my part!! Ah well,no one can remember all the data,all the time,thanks for the correction,and comments!! Thank you 😊 !

[@dtvjho]

The El and Norristown High Speed Line both use Pennsylvania Trolley Gauge. It's a bit wider than standard, by an inch or so.

[@chromebomb]

shout out to Philly!

[@ThomRealEstate-k1y]

Believe it or not but the Frankford El is immortalized in song. The tune is The Frankford el song by The American Dream.

[@derrickcool-307]

1:00 Hornnnnnn!!!! 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭🚃

[@BigRob-FormerlyMrSlim]

I’m still trying to find out what kind of horn is that 😂

[@notforeveryone7334]

I’m glad somebody said it 😂

[@czlowiekstarejdaty]

Awesome video!

[@BoCuTun]

4:43 It’s weird that the train has no door chime, it only says “Doors are closing.”

[@MechanicIntel]

could the EL cars be increased to 8 car sets once the M5 cars come in?

[@dtvjho]

There are a few stations limited to 6-car lengths. I know Church is 6, vaguely recall 34th St being short. It's quite doable to expand Church with some money. Expanding 34th would be a major project, a full reconstruction of one end. You'd have to rip up everything on one end, including opening up Market St. So if SEPTA did this, I would recommend extending 34th a bit to the east and tie it into the 33rd St trolley stop.

[@Ih8kone]

I wish it had an express.

[@videonut1988]

Used to. A/B Services. Big mistake to axe that.

[@Ih8kone]

@@videonut1988 That wasn't an express. That was skip-stop service.

[@dtvjho]

@@Ih8kone Skipping stops is what express service does.

[@Ih8kone]

@@dtvjho Skip-stop service and express service are NOT THE SAME DAMN THING!

[@TheMansfieldBusGuy]

@@Ih8kone A/B Were Basically Express lol

[@nicolasjohnson7975]

They need to bring back and Revamp A/B service

[@dtvjho]

I agree, dropping express service was another bone-headed corporate decision, this one by SEPTA brass. The El is the busiest line and its length begs for express service. With only 2 tracks the entire length, the only means at express service is the A/B "skip stop" pattern.

[@DeltaFish11]

No, we got 6 minute headways now. It's good

[@dtvjho]

@@DeltaFish11 That's a long time at rush hour. The El's ran 2-4 min with AB. If you're at an all-trains-stop station like Erie Torresdale or K&A, it fills up quick.

[@nathanielthrush5581]

Broadly speaking, the holistic septa system is good enough for Philly (outside of the greater northeast part of the city which is essentially a transit desert). However, trains should run more frequently (esp regional rail), infrastructure should be updated and made more accessible, and the system should be a hell of a lot safer and cleaner. But broadly gets the job done, far better than much bigger cities like Los Angeles and maybe a tad worse than Boston.

[@Aether-222]

They have plans to do so, the Philly 2045 transit plan lays out there wishes, it includes several new and extended lightrail/trolley lines, new trolleys/modernization, Regional Rail service enhancements and new rollingstock and stations, bus rout residisng and electric buses with enhanced service, better bus stop shelters, but i dont know there plans for the BSL and MFL

[@dtvjho]

The ex-Reading side of the system (regional rail) north of CC is already congested at rush. The main issue is this 4-track mainline drops to 2 at Wayne Junction, well within city limits on lines that extend far beyond the City. SEPTA seriously needs to utilize existing provisions for a 3rd track to Jenkintown or better yet Glenside. Several bridges are already built for 3, and the crossing over Broad St is built for 4.

[@mycobacteriem2540]

greater NE is definitely fucked in terms of transit. we get a few RR stations and some bus routes that only serve small parts of the NE within itself. I hope there is something in the new plans to give the NE a better transit connection.

[@dtvjho]

@@mycobacteriem2540 The Roosevelt Blvd Subway extension off the Broad St Subway, along with an extension of the El, would go a long way. The Subway project has sat at the top of the federal DOT New Starts list for decades. Its the bums in City Hall that keep blowing opportunities to get this funded and built, with the inner drive converted to the US 1 expressway.

[@ahliypronouncedah-lee7269]

@@dtvjho Is that what the teo ramps headed towards the northeast north of Erie stations are for?

[@ilmikawish]

Nice 👍

[@marciliomathias4525]

Is there any connection to airport?

[@gibb1991]

SEPTA Regional Rail trains connect to the airport.

[@jcmik]

Adding to Gibb1991- riders can transfer from the Market-Frankford Line to said Regional Rail at three different stations using underground concourses

[@Machodave2020]

Other than that, there's no direct connection from the El. You have to take the El to 8th, 15th, or 30th streets for Regional Rail or take the El to the 115.

[@dtvjho]

R1 Airport line from 30th St train station, upper level. Runs every 30 mins. It's a single block to walk between the El's 30th St Station and Amtrak. Right now everyone has to go to street level and pay attention to traffic, but an underground corridor connection exists, but SEPTA keeps it closed instead of rehabbing and reopening it. Another example of ignoring customer feedback, this one has been the source of customer complaints since SEPTA closed it in the mid-1980s in a knee-jerk reaction to a crime.

[@loocpoc]

You can take the El to any of the center city regional rail stations Market-East/Jefferson at 11th st, Suburban Station at 15th St and 30th St. Other connections included taking the El to 69th st and riding the 108 bus to the airport or you can switch to the southbound Broad Street subway (Orange Line) to Snyder ave and getting on the 37 bus

[@StreamHunger]

Weldone👍great job

[@kim3982]

Oh ish this just shows 15th to 30th street i thought I seen some other areas too above 15th street after spring garden 😅 .. omg bring me back to teen years I would just ride the el to Pratt to almost 69th street an back just for fun lmfao 🤣 all before the cross overs that I did like then idk an to facts some areas of this el relly need new paint an alternative for clean relly any ways thx for this 🙏 video 📹 enjoyed it much

[@PhilipSalen]

I like taking the blue line to get to the Girard street trolly and then on to the zoo when I visit Philadelphia.

[@dtvjho]

Getting to the zoo on transit has always been a problem in Philly, because the Zoo isn't in Center City. The direct route from the City Hall area would use the Ben Franklin parkway then West River Drive, but this doesn't pass near enough to surrounding neighborhoods to get significant ridership not going to the zoo. The line ends up sparsely ridden. SEPTA has tried special busing. Then the city did it with Phlash, but did it wrong by charging and not accepting SEPTA passes. The fastest method is likely the subway to Girard then the 15 trolley.

[@PhilipSalen]

@@dtvjho I have done that. The trolly is fun and lets us off right next to the zoo. However, it is a little slow.

[@johnhazel591]

170,000 riders daily on weekdays.

[@rojoecasey7579]

It's called the El.. not subway because it is only underground for part of it's route..

[@CaseysTrains]

Subway also doubles as a classification of a certain type of train. (Though the proper term is Rapid Transit). Believer or not there a major difference from let's say an Amtrak or Regional Rail Train, The El, and The Trolleys. So while we call it The El (even when it underground) it's still a "subway" in terms of how it operates. If you ever look above the front window on the inside to the left, you'll see a little SEPTA plaque saying "Market-Frankford M4 Elevated/Subway Car" which kinda gives nod to its classification.

[@mariahen19]

It may be efficient but it sure as hell ain’t safe

[@timosha21]

In what way is it not safe?

[@MechanicIntel]

lots of incidents happen on this line, I myself as a regular passenger have seen a lot of stuff the city isn’t hasn’t taken care of

[@kellyjohnson9394]

I’ve ridden the EL every day for 40 years. There has never been an issue at all. You can’t take one or two news reports and paint the entire system as dangerous. Every mass transit system in every major city have mentally ILL people, rowdy school kids, drunks and trouble makers riding from time to time. I just watched a video of people being beaten up on a LONDON, UK subway.

[@tanyagibson1182]

It's known as the homeless and junkie express now!!

[@trenomanis]

Οι συρμοί είναι καταπληκτικοί, αλλά οι ταχύτητες για metro είναι αρκετά χαμηλές. Επίσης οι σταθμοί χρειάζονται "φρεσκάρισμα". Δεν είναι δυνατόν οι πρώτοι διδάξαντες τι και πως ακριβώς πρέπει να είναι ένας άρτιος μητροπολιτικός σιδηρόδρομος να έχουν μείνει πίσω σε σχέση με χώρες όπως η Κίνα, η Νότιος Κορέα κ.λπ.

[@afcgeo882]

China and South Korea systems are very new. This line was built in 1907.

[@trenomanis]

@@afcgeo882 Αυτό ακριβώς γράφω: "οι πρώτοι, οι πρωτοπόροι που δίδαξαν σε ολόκληρο τον κόσμο πως κατασκευάζεται ένας ένας άρτιος μητροπολιτικός σιδηρόδρομος". Αυτό δεν σημαίνει ότι οι ΗΠΑ, μια εξαιρετικά σοβαρή χώρα θα έπρεπε να επιτρέψει πολύ κατώτερες χώρες να την ξεπεράσουν σε τόσο μεγάλο βαθμό. Απλά είναι τα πράγματα...

[@afcgeo882]

@@trenomanis I don’t speak Greek and this doesn’t allow one to copy into a translator. That’s why everyone writes in English. You can translate it first, and then post.

[@GamerRobYT]

"low speeds" well I mean this is one of the fastest subway trains in the entire America, just behind BART and MTA

[@trenomanis]

@@afcgeo882 Αγαπητέ δεν υπάρχει πρόβλημα! Αν δεν σου αρέσει μην διαβάζεις το σχόλιό μου. Σέβομαι την Αγγλική διάλεκτο αλλά Ελληνικά είναι η μήτρα κάθε άλλης γνωστής γλώσσας!

[@thecarsectionthecarsection6420]

Gas prices are high but still using my car and looking to by another car.

[@dacity3000]

Why said it is small??

[@timosha21]

There are only two subway lines for a city of 1.5 million!

[@dtvjho]

@@timosha21 The Broad St Subway was built with provisions for 3 more lines to tie in. The El could be extended up the Northeast. But there is no political will. Nearly all the infrastructure was built by private businesses. Since the government takeover, only the airport line is new. The rest of the activity is maintenance on what they already have.

[@dacity3000]

@@timosha21 oh, I see. Thanks for reply.

[@metropolitantransit7276]

Well it is a light metro which provides faster service than traditional heavy rail subways and are more frequent. I call it a light metro because of small rolling stock.

[@jpgm2015]

It is in no way light metro

[@glenatkinson1230]

Chicago L cars are smaller but not called light metro.

[@jpgm2015]

@@glenatkinson1230 and fyi when we say shorter cars let’s include they usually carry more than 6 cars

[@afcgeo882]

How is this rolling stock “small” or “light”? It’s a typical rolling stock for a metro/subway. They run on a 1,588mm gauge. Both Chicago and NYC systems use smaller cars.

[@metropolitantransit7276]

It was only a consideration and assumption so please don't make it a big deal.

[@sonnythatguy7748]

Hiayyya

[@localman8854]

Goodness, this whole line and its stations look forlorn and depressing, like some other city's hand-me-down. The one bright spot is, it's not the Broad Street line.

[@dtvjho]

It's typical for SEPTA. They're similar in some respects to the Brutalist style favored by the old USSR. Not much imagination at SEPTA when it comes to look-and-feel.

[@nominatorchris5591]

You should see it in person. It's even more messy. I take it every day cause school, but it does a fine job of getting me from home to school

[@wolfythewolf4457]

The stations in the tunnel haven't changed in decades, bar 30th, 15th, and 5th street stations.

[@dtvjho]

@@wolfythewolf4457 I remember when 5th St was the first to get redone, in time for the bicentennial in 1976. Then 13th was next redone. 2nd was redone as part of the I-95 build around the same time. The last stop to be redone was 11th, and I remember back in 1983 seeing it for a few months when I started commuting to Drexel, the old iron stair rails, poor lighting etc, then 11th was shut down for 6-9 months. By now, most of those remodels are now tired and crap, most of the ceiling strips at 8th have fallen out. These stops need fresh makeovers.

[@wolfythewolf4457]

@@dtvjho Completely agree. A gust of wind would make them fall apart.