The Pontiac That Ate Ferraris: How A 1963 Tempest Super Duty Dominated Daytona In The Rain

[@TheSlowoldman]

My first car was a 1963 Pontiac Tempest with a 326 V8. I bought it for 50 bucks out of a field. In 1979, I was 13 years old and helped deliver hay and grain from my parents feed store. Mr. Van Natta was an older gentleman we delivered feed to every other week. He noticed I kept looking at the old Pontiac in the field. He asked, "Bud, do you like that old car?" I mean, I was thirteen, I liked any car at that point. He asked me how much I would give for it. I told him I had saved up 50 bucks working at the feed store. He told me if my dad would come over and help me get it running I could buy it for the 50 bucks. I rushed back to the feed store and told my dad. A couple of weekends later and changing fluids, replacing the battery and a few other things and I had my first car...... I drove the wheels off of it in the 8 acres we had at the feed store. Wish I still had it.

[@dennisryan6370]

I recall that name Van Natta.

[@patfromamboy]

My parents bought a 1964 Tempest station wagon about a year old and drove it for many years. I remember my dad told us that he had to clean the carbon out of the 326 engine and got it going 100 on the freeway with us sitting in the very back before everyone wore seatbelts and he smoked in the car. They sold it to our neighbor kid who towed his catamaran with it.

[@Thousand_yard_King]

Hahaha, mine too was a Pontiac tempest with a 326 and a two-speed power glide. In 1982 I put a NOS. Kit on it and it would blow away the biggest hot rods around from 0 to 70 mph. Lol. Many of my friends laughed at it until they got a ride in the passenger seat😮 then they were absolutely astonished at what it would do. Had 100 people offered to buy it from me, in 90. It was stolen, never saw it again.

[@dangarrison3503]

What town were you in? I remember a Van Natta dairy here in California

[@TheSlowoldman]

@@dangarrison3503 My parents feed store was in Pedley/Glen Avon area.... Chino was filled with dairies at that time.

[@robertreynolds9607]

That's one hell of a story. Chalk up another for American ingenuity. I wish that more people could appreciate what an industrial giant this nation once was. Sure would love to see more manufacturing here again. Thanks for sharing!

[@douglascooper1987]

🎯🎯👍

[@mark109s]

I’m in the same boat as you, I would love to see America the way it was when I was growing up, sure miss the good old days!

[@robertreynolds9607]

USA! 🇺🇸 Never give up hope! Thanks brother!

[@edwardragsdale4443]

b​@@douglascooper1987

[@scotttiemann4516]

The transaxle in the coupe was in fact ,, built engineered and built by Pontiac. All twelve cars received it. Not just the Nichols car. The wagon in the video, I restored for the late Randy Williams. He spent many years finding all the correct parts and pieces. One couple known as the DeLorean coupe also has its special transaxle. Two more coupes that we have restored have conventional rear axles and transmissions in place of the SD specific 4 speed power-shift transaxle. We restored the wagon in 1999. It is now in a collection in Florida. Scott Tiemann

[@opera93]

Thanks… for comments, etc.

[@1967davethewave]

Did they use a 389 block in this car? I know the big main 421 had a reputation as unreliable when used in endurance situations and it was mostly attributed to the heat from the large journal crank. I love the S.D. cars as they were true trail blazers. Too bad GM backed away from racing after 63 or we might have seen even wilder stuff as technology advanced.

[@bryandickerson5365]

Amazing stuff! Both the video and your follow-up are awesome. Thanks!

[@chrishensley6745]

@@1967davethewave so true man!

[@redcowboy1986]

I always wondered why the old tempest had an independent rear suspension. Yea team USA !

[@stephenboulter4727]

As a British motor racing fan of many years I thought I had a fairly broad knowlege but had never heard about this fantastic story, what an amazing combination of top driving talent and engineering skill explained in an excellent video, thank you! Incidentally, I was driven to look up more info on Paul Goldsmith and was very happy to see he's still going strong at 96! Kudos to him!

[@65stang98]

guys like this just seem to always either die young or live to 100 lol now in between. reminds me of my uncle who passed away not too long ago at abt the same age.

[@jamessveinsson6006]

I was reading your comment with a British accent it seems coming out of your mouth a lot better

[@xxxYYZxxx]

You may want to research into early NASCAR history if you haven't already. I'd suggest the documentary series "American Stock - The Golden Era Of NASCAR". The farther back, the more interesting. Arguably, the "golden age" of Stock Cars ended in the mid 1960's, and we have glorified "spec" racing thereafter.

[@ronmerkle3696]

Great video, Brian. Always liked the 63 lemans. My dad worked for a pontiac dealer in the 60's and got to see all the new pontiacs come in. Still own and race my 68 firebird I've owned for 47 years. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[@c7zr179]

Man, I sure wish I had an awesome classic muscle car like that. Glad to hear that you still race it instead of treating it like a garage queen :)

[@machtschnell7452]

@@c7zr179 Pony cars were never referred to as muscle cars at that time even if they had a big block.

[@c7zr179]

@@machtschnell7452 To be fair the definition of a muscle car is blurry. I've heard definitions as loose as "anything with a big block" to definitions as specific as "an American car with a sedan/ coupe body type with a big block V8 under the hood". I think the Corvette example illustrates this well. Some consider them muscle cars, some don't.

[@will7its]

This is about the tempest not lemans...

[@todddenio3200]

@@will7its the Lemans WAS a Tempest

[@joestephan1111]

Thank you for this. Of note: 1) Paul Goldsmith is the only racer to win the beach races at Daytona on two-wheels (factory-supported Harley) & four driving Smokey Yunick's Pontiac in the last race there before next one moving over to the new Speedway. Both races were won at record-breaking speeds five years apart. 2) He is also the only person to do same at the Milwaukee one mile oval, the motorcycle race when it was still dirt, the stock car race after it had been paved. 3) He also did same on the dangerous Langhorne circular one mile dirt. He won USAC & NASCAR Stock Car Races there, in both hardtop & convertible divisions. As well, he won the motorcycle 100 milers where the lap was taken with steel-shoe'd left foot on the ground, sliding the entire way! 4) Goldsmith also won Stock Car Races when AAA preceded USAC and nine in NASCAR. (his last of 123 NASCAR starts at Bristol where he won!) 5) To get around faster Goldsmith became a light plane pilot. One year he Sunday won the USAC Stock Car race on the half-mile Ascot dirt in Los Angeles, on Thursday of that same week he won the qualifying race & pole at Daytona! 6) After becoming Ray Nichels' Vice President he began flying customer racing engines back and forth with him. 7) Though Daytona had been open for five years at this point it was still unknown territory. The track learned with each race. With Racing Sports Cars designed & built for up & down, fast & slow on each lap, it doesn't surprise me they couldn't run fast enough on the oval. Winners & losers both learned that day what is now taken for granted.

[@jayrowe6473]

Is he still living? If he is, he's not all that far off from his 100th birthday. He's got to be about 97 now.

[@joestephan1111]

@@jayrowe6473 Yes he is 97 and living a quiet retired life in Michigan.

[@juliedy1574]

I'm pretty sure that he still lives in Munster Indiana and runs the airport in Griffith Indiana just up the road from the old Nichels racecar factory. I met him and had him sign the visor of my Dan Gurney Special 5 years ago at the Griffith historical society. Amazing guy.

[@joestephan1111]

@@juliedy1574 Hi Julie; the thing I saw said he was completely retired and living in a gated community (dont remember the city name) on the banks of the river north of Detroit. Be interesting to find out. Thanks.

[@juliedy1574]

It may be a more recent development.

[@originalpunkSxE]

GM has always said that they instituted a racing ban so that they wouldn't be broken up over monopoly regulations, but I still feel to this day that GM couldn't risk a whole season of their brand new Corvettes getting whomped on by a stodgy Pontiac 2dr sedan. So they told EVERYONE to stop. Also, I'm very pleased to be the 389th like! Poncho Power! lol

[@wymple09]

Nice theory, but they also killed the ultralight Vettes that were even more deadly. The monopoly angle is true. I also recall the Yunick mystery motor wiping this race up until it broke.

[@originalpunkSxE]

@@wymple09 Yunick? He wasn't even on the starting grid, and Goldsmith led every single lap of this race. I think you might be thinking of another race. The Corvettes here were also the very first Z06 Vettes ever built.

[@SealofPerfection]

@@originalpunkSxE I think he's talking about the actual Daytona 500. 63 Daytona, both Junior Johnson and Johnny Rutherford ran away with their respective qualifiers with Mystery Motors, and Rutherford made a rookie mistake and spun out on the last lap which prevented him from winning. I don't believe the Mystery Motor was in this particular race. The racing ban was absolutely due to pressure from the Feds. Prior to that, GM was dominating racing, and sold over 50% all all automobiles in the USA. But it wasn't all a bad thing: With GM out of the picture, Ford and Chrysler had their "day in the sun" for a few years...without that ban, we wouldn't have had those legendary Hemi and Ford performances of the mid-to-late 60's, which were enabled by the big dog not taking part in racing. With GM still involved, they would have still been taking the lion's share of the wins most likely, so the ban was actually good, in a way. Now we have all those other performances to talk about that wouldn't have been there otherwise. Richard Petty's streak being probably the main one.

[@originalpunkSxE]

@@SealofPerfection As far as I know all the Corvettes in this race were Z06 Mystery Motor cars. Reading more into the whole situation however, I found that the directives had come down internally even before this particular race was run, but the cars had already been built. I just always thought the dates were a little coincidental.

[@anthonyrowland9072]

@@wymple09 that's why they pulled out of the cheetah program too.

[@76629online]

This was a very interesting video, I really enjoyed. I happen to currently own a 1964 Pontiac Catalina that was originally purchased new and owned for a long time by Mr. Enoch Staley. Enoch, along with Bill France and others, was one of the founding members of NASCAR and he was also the builder, owner and operator of the North Wilkesboro Motor Speedway in North Wilkesboro, NC. I acquired the car a few months ago as a roller, the original engine and transmission were missing. Its now back on the road with a '66 vintage 389 and a TH400 transmission. The car also happened to contain some really neat memorabilia when I got it - 2 60's vintage Winston Cup race suits (appear to be child size) and Enoch's old Safari hat that he wore that still has "Wilkesboro Speedway" written on it in black magic marker. The car also has a second speedometer in it - mounted under the dash. I can only assume it was used in some official capacity on the racetrack. I suspect this car was probably used as a pacecar at North Wilkesboro. Anyway, after watching this video about these interesting Pontiac events that happened in 1963, now I am wondering if this wasn't what inspired Enoch to buy this car in the first place. It does have an optional 2.56 gear in the reared - I'm sure this car would literally fly. There was even still a speeding ticket in the glovebox that Enoch got in Hillsville, VA on April 25th, 1964, going 70 in a 55 zone on highway 58.

[@caribman10]

..and Panch's Maserati was NOT a "Birdcage" - it was a Type 151 (not a Type 60 or 61). But add to this story one detail about the Nichels Tempest that was not noted: as bad as the weather was, the Tempest lapped all those cars on dry-weather tires. Paul Goldsmith was a monster that day.

[@maxsdad538]

You're half right... Paul Goldsmith was a monster EVERY day.

[@MrJohnnyDistortion]

And they were not steel belted tires either. Crazy.

[@thomassuit7450]

And it's funny that the car named after a kind of storm dominated a race in bad weather.

[@iexlrate1]

This was very well done, I've heard about the race but not in detail. That Tempest needs to be in a museum, but knowing the German engineers at the time it was destroyed after they reverse engineered it. It's possible that transmission is the basis of the duel clutch transmission.

[@tuftyterror983]

Would be cool if a replica could be made that was accurate up to the information we have on it, then displayed at the motor sports hall of fame at Daytona International Speedway where it won.

[@1Bandit455]

@@tuftyterror983 The # 50 SD-421 Replica is being built - should be on the net :)

[@tuftyterror983]

@@1Bandit455 thanks for the info

[@robertbairt9094]

The 50/50 weight bias of the rear transaxle combined with the 🌧️ gave the winning hand to the Point. BB Vett's were frt bias in wet, 70/30 ish🤔 A dry race result would be interesting 😎

[@tuftyterror983]

@@robertbairt9094 Interesting.

[@ib1rcnut]

Ive heard this story before and think its really awesome! What a sleeper. The way you tell it makes even better. Brian you are one of the very best on KZbin. I think I could sit and listen to you talk about paint drying and find it interesting. Thanks Brian.

[@125AXer]

So much fun to see this kind of history played out and described. I'm a longtime Pontiac fan, never knew this story. Thanks!

[@jimeb2jim256]

Owned a 63 Tempest wagon briefly. The Gray Ghost was legendary.

[@proparanoid]

Really appreciate... good story presentation. Esp. meant something to me, as when I was in H.S., my Uncle came to visit for a private talk with Aunt/Uncle I was staying with. Too young to legally drive, Uncle didn't know, or care. He tossed me his car keys as a bribe to get me and my friend out of the house for 'a while.' Outside was AJ Foytes #2 Stingray, about halfway set up for racing. Cage/firewall/instruments, racing seat (1 ea.). Suspension still stock, no idea on the engine. But it was fast enough for us, and we were fortunate enough to return it in one piece... a little closer to the ground than it used to be (smaller tires). LOL. A couple of weeks latter, we drove a 10 ton propane truck. Not so fast.

[@johntechwriter]

This story is deserving of a 30-minute documentary, complete with video, interviews, and examination of surviving relatives, since this is a one-off. This car and its descendants inspired the muscle cars that came later, and was successful in oval and drag racing. But this was its greatest victory, beating Ferraris and Corvettes on their own turf. What a testament to the builders, who had nothing to go by and, their first time out, humiliated dedicated racers with years of development behind them.

[@andyharman3022]

Mind-blowing story. The very thought of driving 155 mph at Daytona in the rain blows my mind. The fact that a mid-size Pontiac coupe put a butt-burning spanking on Corvettes and Ferraris makes it something that not even Hollywood could have conceived. The Tempest put on a perfect storm.

[@M21L35]

Luv' it when you hear from somebody "in the know". Mr. Tieman is, w/o a doubt, that somebody!

[@RickarooCarew]

I'm an... exotic car mechanic... but basically a gear head who absolutely loves stuff like this... thanks for sharing.. two transmissions.. WOW.. worked as long as they were going... more or less.. in a straight line... high bank oval tracks the bank literally throws them around the corner.. more or less.. in a straight line.. it's a tremendous engineering challenge... I would love to have seen how it was done

[@CaptApple]

I had a '63 LeMans in the mid 80's. I guess they had the same body as the Tempest and it sounds like they had that same transaxle. The flexible driveshaft guide tube at the back of the abbreviated bell housing for the clutch assembly broke at the baseplate and I could not afford a specialty weld fix back then and couldn't find an unbroken one in any junkyard. It was a nightmare. Eventually I sold it to a salvage yard who paid me a premium of about 400% on their usual rate because "some guy had been hounding them for Lemans parts." I just waved and smiled because I knew I was that guy : ). I really liked it's pickup, the comfy seats and the huge trunk.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

LeMans was deluxe version of Tempest... as was first GTOs...

[@jerrystaley1563]

I had a great little 1963 Tempest Custom during my Senior year (1964-1965) in high school... a Cordovan Brown Metallic 2-dr sports coupe with the 2 bbl, 260 gross hp, 326 V-8 and 3-speed manual transaxle. That unique "rope driveshaft" broke with just the power of the 326 so its hard to imagine how it held up to those 405-500 hp 421s. FYI: the 421 had the same exterior dimensions as the 326 so an easy drop-in replacement. Boy, the trouble I would've gotten into with that...

[@sporkfindus4777]

Like many people who've left comments, I'd also never heard this story, despite being a big Pontiac fan (albeit from across the pond). Brilliant video.

[@mb123tdt]

Watching from Warsaw, Poland:) Awesome story

[@draizwrm]

Love this story, thank you, i did not know about those Super Duty pontiacs, but my friend Danny did. Back in 67 I would ride to electronics trade school with a friend, Danny drove a 61 Tempest with a Slant 4cyl that was 1/2 of a V8 block, he did everything to that engine he could and that was one quick little car, not in league with that 63 super duty, but your story brought back some memories

[@benkrom2737]

And this is why when growing up every other car on our street had a pontiac in the driveway. Adds for wide track Pontiacs and ESSO gas had put a tiger in your tank, Uniroyal tires had Tiger Paw tires and my favorite cereal was Tony The Tiger Kelloggs corn flakes they're GREAT ! LOL dad's car was a Pontiac with Tiger paw tires with a Tiger tail waving from the back of the car ! That must have been the best multi company sales gimmick ever ! My 1st significant car was a 68 Pontiac Firebird Ram Air II 4 speed . Till this day I still miss that car. As far as building an engine my most surprising build was during the original gas crisis in the 70's I bought a vw bug with what I thought was a 40hp but turned out to be 36hp. After it sucked a valve I went through and put a new crankshaft , rods, jugs, track use only cam, dual port heads that I Ported and tuned header and single side muffler. That thing wouldn't hold an idle for more than a minute without clearing its throat 😆 Until putting turbos on engines I never encountered as much satisfaction as building that bug motor. So yeah got off topic, Watching B/W 13" TV about Wide Track Pontiacs, Uniroyal Tiger paw tires, ESSO put a Tiger in your tank and Tony The Tiger cereal and this was Before the GTO came out, OMG. No way not to be in love with Pontiacs. Now they're no more 😮‍💨 My story should tell you that putting a GTO emblem on an Australian car wasn't gonna bring back the 60s no matter how good that Australian car performed. 2002 Ram Air Bird is an awesome car but Pontiac dropped it not knowing how many people were still buying other models still based from their 60s memories. Chevrolet did it right with the corvette, kept on making it even though most of the years it barely made a profit on it . I don't like the new vettes and don't even come in manual transmission. Guess what their biggest weakness is 🤔 yep that automatic transmission WTF !

[@jhaedtler]

I had a 63 Tempest! From factory with half a V-8 and transaxle. Great big plush bucket seats! paid $75.00 for it used and sold it for $250.00.

[@SchoolforHackers]

Damn! My parents had one like that too! What a cool car that was.

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

One of my favorite Pontiac stories… pisses Chevy, Ferrari, and Porsche people off, all at the same time! 😂

[@CarsandCats]

Where were all the Ford's at?

[@protogenbeastieo8291]

@@CarsandCats Le mans with the GT probably lol

[@turbodpv5908]

@@protogenbeastieo8291 Not in 1963

[@protogenbeastieo8291]

@@turbodpv5908 i know just making the joke

[@beboboymann3823]

@@CarsandCats Wood Brothers……1963…….Daytona 500 winner……Tiny Lund driving a Ford.

[@johnhobson8886]

I just love this piece of history. Thank you for providing this. I am from Pontiac Michigan and have owned many Pontiacs including 4 GTO'S. I still have my 06 M6.

[@timsharpe3498]

I think the NASCAR 421 SD was factory rated at 410 HP. I saw one on the dyno and it made 488 hp. Not too shabby.

[@oldmusher]

The only thing that held them under 500 horse were those two crappy Rochestser carbs. Holley carbs and real headers gave 500+ horse easily. The stock exhaust manifolds were ALUMINUM, the idea being they would quickly "enlarge" themselves from the inside to provide more flow. Nobody kept them long enough to see. Steel tube headers prevailed.

[@timsharpe3498]

@@oldmusher My understanding about the aluminum manifolds was that they were only used on drag cars because any more than a 1/4 mile blast and they melted.

[@shawntailor5485]

In those days it was monstrous.

[@joca6282]

That's correct.

[@joca6282]

I saw one on a dyno at a speed shop last year with a 1966 Royal Bobcat 389 that punched 520 hp.

[@robertordewald8678]

That Tin Indian must have been a brave car. Because he took no prisoners! Excellent video thank you for sharing best regards Bob from Virginia USA

[@trentnichols5075]

DUDE!! That was without a doubt one of the best “films” I have EVER seen!!! I got a grin 😁 on my face at the first sentence & it just grew from there!!

[@mirrorblue100]

Great story - thanks. '63 was a year or two before I got into cars and racing so I'm very appreciative of this remarkable story. That '63/'64 Tempest/GTO was a good looking car.

[@popeyeman69]

Fabulous story Brian, and an interesting as hell tidbit of history. The stacked transmissions is a very cool trick, too bad it wasn't strong enough

[@walterheading7994]

I enjoyed Ford vs Ferrari but this story has to be made into a movie. How exciting.

[@2coolwheels139]

I LOVE this story! Now I want to build an old Tempest!

[@paulglock3298]

Why have I never heard this story before...this is AMAZING! Wow...I mean WOW

[@TreDeuce-qw3kv]

My mom had a new 1963 Pontiac Tempest convertible with the half-V8 and trans-axle. Tranny failed eventually at about 16,000 miles. It was traded in for a like new 57' Chevy Bell Air wagon which my brother and I got our drivers license in and proceed to run the front wheels off. The wheel studs kept breaking off with all the hard cornering. Got real good at replacing them before I graduated to Flathead Fords. Thanks for posting

[@bigl6322]

My first car was a ‘64 tempest, I was 14 and wrenching on cars with my dad and fell in love with 1st gen birds. I currently drive a ‘68 firebird that I did a frame off that I just completed in May (just in time to get it into the ‘22 Hot August Nights in Reno. I stroked the 400 to a 461 with all the other goodies through the power train. Making 500 hp and 575 ft/lb torque on the dyno. Just started working up into triple digit speed and at 125 I realized I desperately need to upgrade the suspension and brakes so I can actually use that power train I built….lol. I naively thought fresh rebuild on the suspension, new rubber, new springs, new bushings etc would be enough for what I wanted to do… Hopefully I’ll get it into the silver state classic in the spring. So, all in all, this was a fascinating video for me. Thanks for posting!! Poncho Power….bool-ya!! Accept no substitute….lol

[@dougabbott8261]

It would be great to see that race from start to finish.

[@67marlins]

I'm a Ford & Mopar guy, and I think this is great.

[@crazyoilfieldmechanic3195]

That was an absolutely awesome racing story!! Thanks for that video 👍

[@Sleeperdude]

Incredible story

[@flyingmerkel6]

Cool story from the best era of motorsport. Thanks for posting

[@seanbriankirby7646]

Thank you for this great and fascinating piece. Definitely earned my subscription.

[@natemiller448]

I have an affinity for motorsport commentators and historians....Brian Lohnes is QUICKLY entering the level of Barney Hall, Eckonomaki, Joy, Jenkins, Page, Bob Fry, Jerry Punch, and several others who's voices feel like "Home" for me and other race fans. Dale Jr. Is gonna be in that group soon as well.

[@gristlepounder]

I love his stories on NHRA channel on Roku!

[@donniecalderone6816]

love this the power of the 421 super duty was legendary all you chevy, ferriea ,a porches guys eat your heart out this pontiac won by 5 laps in the sportmans 250

[@Loulovesspeed]

@DONNIE CALDERONE - If you are going to criticize Ferrari and Porsche, at least learn the correct spelling of their names!

[@donniecalderone6816]

@@Loulovesspeed does it really matter

[@Loulovesspeed]

@@donniecalderone6816 - If you don't care how others look at you, no, it doesn't matter. If you want to be looked at as someone who has some intelligence, then yes, it does matter. Take your pick. Then again, you can't seem to grasp how to make a simple, correctly punctuated sentence, so maybe it doesn't matter in your case!

[@lecleland1]

When I was 19 I bought a 63 tempest with a 326. I loved it.

[@tomkrisel4493]

My cousin 3 yrs. older than me had one also. White 326 4 speed and kept it pristine. He traded it for a new 390 Mustang and I was interested in the Tempest but another cousin a year younger than I was, bought it. He beat the crap out of it. Was always replacing the rear passenger side tire because he smoked it, but it was an open rear.

[@timothybenetti5322]

I still have one. ‘63 lemans convertible. Love it.

[@jeffbranch8072]

You actually had a 1963-only 336 badged as a 326, and hoping GM Corporate wouldn't notice the discrepancy. GM Research caught it and PMD was forced to retool for '64.

[@timothybenetti5322]

@@jeffbranch8072 Jeff - so….motor is a 336 not 326? Do you know the horsepower output of these motors w/4 barrel carb and dual exhaust?

[@jeffbranch8072]

@@timothybenetti5322 , only in 1963. GM Corporate made them change tooling to an actual 326 beginning in 1964. The 336 was an engine Pontiac developed for GMC tucks in the late 50's but hadn't put into production yet. PMD got caught when GM Research was running tests and noticed the "326" was flowing more than expected. They pull the heads and took measurements.

[@mgbchuck6527]

Had heard all this before , preferred you style/delivery/enthusiasm, awesomeness

[@80GP400]

Great story. I have a 1980 Grand Prix. It had a smog 265 v8 pontiac in it. I got it from a old lady. Me and a old buddy from work dropped in a pontiac 400 from a big Catalina, i modded the 400 alittle now she gets up and goes. Dont know why pontiac didnt put a 400 or 428 in the 80's G body grand prix. It would have run with the GN and corvettes of that era for sure.

[@vehdynam]

That is absolutely fantastic , and well done !! I love these history lessons of yours. Very, very much appreciated.

[@bradleyduncan8224]

Is this the new version of dorkomotive? I love these history podcasts and videos! Keep up the awesome work Brian!

[@joekurtz8303]

Once took a ride in a 64 Tempest, had to push start when hot, w/ my buds, watch the owner power shift w/o the clutch, the Motor ran strong & pulled like a F@$&ed up Mule, got us there& Back for a fun night of a teen aged high octane road adventure. Made me appreciate Dads old 63'Bonneville small block

[@39KHall]

There's always a neat display for the Tempest, the independent rear suspension, and the "rope drive" drive train at the Pontiac Nationals in August in Norwalk, OH. It's well worth attending if you can get there -- I've been there two or three times, and I'm a Pontiac fan only to the extent that I like just about everything in '60s muscle cars.

[@johnmcguigan7218]

Oval vs. road course: rarely do cars and drivers overlap the two. The exception was the 1960s, beginning with Formula 1 world champion Jack Brabham bringing his F1 car, slightly more powerful for Indy, and racing it to a 9th place Indy finish. After this, Formula 1 drivers began flying to Indy after the Monaco Grand Prix, to race the 500, with world champions Jim Clark and Graham Hill winning back-to-back 500s, with Jackie Stewart placing second. (When asked on the Tonight Show if he would return to race at Indy, Stewart famously declared Indianapolis so boring a city that he wouldn't bother with Indy again.) Mario Andretti was really the only oval driver to succeed at Formula 1, though he had more road racing experience than most of his USAC colleagues. A. J. Foyt was hugely successful at Le Mans, and maybe he could have succeeded had he give Formula 1 a real try. And maybe Mark Donohue might have succeeded in Formula 1 had he not been killed in a freak Formula 1 accident.

[@mescko]

Don't forget Dan Gurney showing up in a '61 409 Impala in England and *almost* beating all comers. Ford came back a few years later with Galaxies and proved the point, albeit with Jack driving.

[@mikewoods6746]

Had a 64 tempest 326 cu in back in 72 one of the coolest rides I ever owned, smooth and ballzie. Aww the good ol days.

[@gregorygolden1296]

Paul Goldsmith was a Baaad ass behind the wheel of anything he drove. A true unsung hero of American motorsports. He could wheel anything. Think he is still flying his airplane today......

[@glengabruch4664]

That Nascar legend is 96 years old now! Gadzooks!

[@phredrocks]

Truly brilliant!

[@joshbrekke6374]

I would love to find that Pontiac, it would go nicely with my built for racing QA1 test car 1964 Tempest once road worthy. My kids and I would cherish it always!! Never underestimate a loved Pontiac Tempest in the right hands, with the right tools, vision, knowledge & the right parts! 😉

[@mattwilson3244]

Amazing Story ! Yes ,Pontiacs Allways impressed ,For ,Reliability ,Strength ,And ,Performance !

[@chrisconsidine4322]

My first car in 1966.. 63 Tempest wagon, 326 /3 speed stick. Bought it for $800 w/ 30k miles on it. If I could nail 2nd gear right, it would eat 289 Mustangs. I broke that drive train more than once!

[@ejgrant5191]

I had never heard this story before! AMAZING as I am a car enthusiast since the 1970's thanks for shining the light on this incredible accomplishment. Guess it makes the Hreb Adams homebuilt "Grey Ghost" Tempest SCCA Trans Am victory drop to 2nd place in incredible Pontiac stories from the road racing world....Too Bad that the car is unaccounted for....Maybe its languishing in some German driveway like the one SD Tempest that was found in So-Cal a few years ago. Liked and subscribed! Thanks for the story👍

[@Loulovesspeed]

I don't think the Grey Ghost did better than second place in that Trans Am race from Lime Rock Park. I believe Pontiac is the only American make that never won an SCCA Trans Am race, and yet they had the audacity to name their car the "Trans Am." ☹

[@ejgrant5191]

@@Loulovesspeed Tell me you know NOTHING about Trans Am resurgence in the 1980's without telling me you are typical in not knowing hisotry....Huffaker Racing and Elliot Forbes Robinson....Pontiac Trans Am for the Championship!

[@Loulovesspeed]

@@ejgrant5191 - Sorry, but personally, I don't regard any of the attempts to revive the original Trans Am , the cars of which were mildly (compared to today's cars) modified production cars, with production frames and only slightly modified production engines, as true Trans Am vehicles. The same crap happened to NASCAR which originally ran slightly modified production cars to the vehicles they run today.....stock cars my ass! I'm a purist in that regard and no amount of discussion will ever change my mind! In any event, Pontiac made some very cool cars in the 60s, and then headed down a long road of disappointment until the buying public had enough of the "Tin Indian." 😛

[@mescko]

@@Loulovesspeed I'm the exact same opinion. NASCAR ended before 1970.

[@TheMrmmkkpro]

As a life long Pontiac fan , this is too cool. 1972 455 HO , M -21 1990 ZR-1 Corvette

[@danielreiss1156]

The Corvette doesn't count!

[@TheMrmmkkpro]

@@danielreiss1156 Yea Daniel , I took my wife for her first ride in the vette, asked her what she thought and she said "it ain't no Firebird". That HO pulls like a train!👍🏁

[@sidefx996]

What a fantastic story and video. Very well done, thank you. It's sad amazing stories (there are several here) will go unknown my most car and racing enthusiasts.

[@petervollheim5703]

Great video! Much thanks!

[@billkunert7281]

At about this time Pontiac had an OHC straight 6 that either Road and Track or Car and Driver put into an XKE. It worked out well and the car was faster than with the original engine

[@jeffbranch8072]

The 1964 Pontiac Banshees with the 230 OHC6 1bbl embarrassed Corvettes with the 327 at the Milford Proving Grounds.

[@clarenceghammjr1326]

Fantastic engine

[@BuzzLOLOL]

The XK-E 6 had more HP (and may have been lighter) so the Pontiac OHC 6 must have been modified for more than stock HP... would like to see that article...

[@jefferymaxfield7826]

I have seen that iconic picture before, did not know the story behind it however, now I know. thank you!

[@BlueVette3832]

My dad worked for Ray Nichels back in the day at the Griffith Indiana shop. I would go to the shop on Saturdays with dad in the late 60's early 70's and that is when they that the winged warriors in the shop.

[@gcrav]

This event changes the context of Pontiac taking Ferrari's GTO name for the performance version of the Tempest. It wasn't a homage to a great car, it was more "We beat your elite car with an American hot rod so now we're gonna take its name!" Could have been worse. They could have named it the "Super Corvette" or something.

[@machtschnell7452]

Ferrari never trademarked GTO as 8t was just a FIA racing classification specification to which it was built. Gran Turismo Omolagato, in Italian.

[@jeffbranch8072]

Behind the scenes that the public never saw was the 1964 Pontiac Banshee with a 230 OHC6 1bbl (standard, NOT the Sprint version) running circles around Corvettes with 327's at the Milford Proving Grounds. A furious Chevy executive stormed into GM Corporate and demanded, "THAT never sees the light of day!".

[@gcrav]

@@jeffbranch8072 What that schmuck from Chevy failed to realize was that there was already other competition that exposed the Corvette as a pretender in the sports car world: Cobras and E-Jags. The Banshee was GM's best shot at staying in the game as a real competitor instead of an also-ran. It was also the car that most truly reflected Zora Duntov's vision. Then along came the Banshee-like Datsun 240-Z.

[@jeffbranch8072]

The original Corvette and Thunderbird were largely targeted at the Jag XK-120, and used the same 102" WB. What Chevy missed is that Americans are more forgiving of imports and expect more from American cars, especially from GM. And that meant that a 6 cylinder like the Jag had wasn't going to be good enough. That's still the problem with GM today. They've wasted 30+ years trying to convince the public that they make Japanese cars, when the public wants better from GM. They just never learn.

[@danawilkes6174]

They could have named it the "Super Corvette" or something. They did. They thought of the name for this (if I remember correctly) "Banshee"...

[@Kaiju_Universe385]

Super fan of dork o motive. Didn’t know you had a KZbin channel. So stoked. Thanks for the history!

[@boblewis8838]

Friend of mine in high school had a white '64 GTO convertible with what they called the "421 factory experimental" engine. Fastest car around for a couple years.

[@jackdaniels2657]

The station wagon looks cool

[@yankeeairpirate1799]

That was excellent....fully enjoyed it

[@barnetcoll8]

At the beginning I said the motor would be a 421 my father used to talk about this motor a lot back in the day. He even went to the first stock car race at Daytona.

[@jamie9016]

Awesome as always. I wonder if the red pig owes its success to Ray Nichols in some way, I doubt we'll see the Pontiac Duper Duty on display in Stuttgart but it would be so cool to hear that it still exists in a distant corner of the factory. Great story Brian, looking forward to the next..

[@davidgrubb9476]

I was wondering the same thing.

[@bobc2987]

Very informative! Thank you! Great Job Brian.

[@richardfinney3179]

I watched that race it was very memorable I was 9 I always watched abc wide world of sports with the agony of defeat ,,!! no shit

[@robertliefveld9295]

Awesome history video...

[@gearbender427]

I love your stories, and commentary, but, can't you make the pictures bigger, they are really hard to see on my computer. keep up the good stories!

[@brianlohnes3079]

I jacked that up but have it fixed for all the stuff going forward!

[@EnkiMMXII]

Great story, very well presented. Had no idea Pontiac had a presence like that. Sounds like it was downplayed by the media, likely purposely. I've heard that some consider the '63 Tempest GTO the first muscle car. Debatable I'm sure....

[@BuzzLOLOL]

GTO option didn't appear until '64...

[@EnkiMMXII]

@BuzzLOLOL yup wiki agrees. Looks like whatever shit video I watched wasn't edited for accuracy. A simple click to the GTO page shows '63 to '74, but it was a '64 model year. Thanks for the correction Buzz.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

@@EnkiMMXII - Well first '64 GTOs made in Sept. '63... and the '63 Tempest with 336" engine and 4 speed manual looked and drove kinda like a GTO...

[@johncartelli]

my 2nd car I owned when i was around 18-19 yrs old was a 62 tempest. it had a 3 spd transaxle flour shift with the 4 cyl. (half 389 cu inch engine)

[@matrox]

American cars have a history of just being bad ass. Its why original cars that once costs just $3000 are now worth $50k, $100k or more.

[@mcgloinm1]

The point was that all the American cars, Ford and Chevs mainly were with big engine options. All the foreign autos didn't go that way. But for example, if you took those two cars and raced them on a regular road track, all American cars couldn't compete. The Fords and Chevys weren't designed for driving curves.

[@charliedee9276]

My parents had a 63 Tempest Convertible when I was little. Black with a black top and red interior, 326 3 speed from the floor. Wish I had that car today.

[@rubentucker210]

I have a 1966 Tempest, this is a great peace of History, GTO and Pontiac Tempest, by John Delorean 👍& the drivers that made it happen.

[@ronaldknisley9792]

Pretty cool story those 421 SDs where really something back in the day before 64 when the Chrysler 426 stepped into the picture

[@tomcherry7029]

The 421SD could hold it own against the 426 hemi

[@todiathink8864]

You conveniently skipped the 427 Sideoiler. It placed 1st-5th at Daytona in '63. Then dominated all of Europe on their own turf; unlimited sports and gt endurance racing. 1966-1969

[@tomcherry7029]

@@todiathink8864 that is because of the controversy surrounding the 1963 Daytona the weather played a major part in the ability of them to pit enough times to have enough fuel to even finish.

[@MrRandyForbes]

I have a particular fondness for the '63 Tempest, due to early, and prolonged, exposure by one of the customers on my Detroit News paper route in the late 1960 ('67-'69)... LOTS of hours spent sanding bondo on the customized rear fascia/taillight area and rolled pan (rear bumper eliminated & "French'd" rectangular taillights). Probably EVEN MORE HOURS doing multiple trans-axle & "rope" driveshaft changes (the stock 326/2V easily overpowered both; the "rope" acting somewhat like a fusible link...). Its young owner__I'll call Roy__also taught me quite a lot about cars and work practices while helping him on all his (and young bride's) other cars too: '62 Impala & '62 Buick Special__both convertibles. I lost touch with "Roy" over the years, and many times tried to locate them when I'd be back in Detroit__last I heard was they moved to Ferndale (maybe to be closer to Woodward Ave., and drag racing)__and in more modern times, through various social media platforms. I just want to say "thanks" So "Roy" if you're out there...

[@rodgerhecht3623]

Love the 63 tempest...loke a mini GTO. My dad had a 61 tempest with a slant 4 banger ( half of a V-8) the transaxle was alway noisy had it back to Pontiac twice ...never able to totally fix it. That independent rear suspension was maybe the key to #50 handling...funny nascar now has independent rear suspension.

[@tedecker3792]

A lot of that noise came from the drive line turning engine speed.

[@theschultz-ster]

wow! AMAZING story once again

[@johncarter44]

Poncho Power! 🏁

[@mattwilson3244]

Awesome Story : So ,Pontiac Earned the right ! to call Next years Tempest . GTO !

[@SAVikingSA]

Smokey Yunick has a great section on this in his book.

[@felisconcolor1112]

It is amusing to see Ferrari's 250 GTO losing the race to the Pontiac model which would eventually bear the GTO name, as the Ferrari never earned its "homologation" title with only 37 examples produced over several years. Pontiac's GTO would fulfill any race series homologation requirements many times over with a single year's production figures.

[@jcgabriel1569]

Thing is, the Ferrari actually did. It's accepted as a further development of the 250 series of cars, of which Ferrari already had built many examples, like the Tour de France, and Short Wheelbase models...

[@johncartelli]

i believe that GTO translates into (of an automobile) certified as conforming to the specifications, as fuel capacity and engine displacement, for a class of standard automobiles (Gran Turismo ) qualified to engage in various types of competitions. Abbreviation: GTO

[@bjs001001]

Great story! Thanks for sharing!

[@shovelhead56]

Great Video!! Thank You for sharing

[@guystandard5579]

Thanks for explaining why my $500 boots squeak. I've tried THREE pairs from Wesco and they all squeaked when walking. I wish I had found your page/channel sooner 😢

[@shadowofthenight7316]

Wow quite the story! Rip Pontiac

[@bobcohoon9615]

Reminds me of another interesting little car, the Pontiac GTO

[@ooohhenrybmblm]

Pontiac Tempest - an endurance and ringer underdog. Fucking badass.

[@douglascooper1987]

As the Owner of a 62 GP with the Trophy425A in it (389-3x2s), and having been around some of our family's 421 Cars, the cars were Very Underated.😉

[@williamwhite9767]

The chevy "mystery" V8 did not appear in Nascar before 1963 and it was unbeatable until it blew up. It had problems lasting a whole race. The big block chevy before that was a truck engine that did not have the canted valves of the " mystery" engine. I was so curious about this engine that after a Nascar race at Darlington, I and my friends climbed up on the back of Junior Johnson's flat bed truck and pulled the tarp off the engine they had there. The valve covers were wide and straight compared to the old engine that had valve covers that were curved on the bottom. When the 396 and 427 engines appeared in the chevys in 65 I knew I had seen one before.

[@mark9531]

You are correct. It was a very-short-lived and very rare 427 Chevrolet Mark II. Which was used only in 1963 prior to Chevy's abrupt racing ban.

[@williamwhite9767]

@@mark9531 And chevy didn't provide this engine to the drag racers. Don Nicholson and the other drag racers of the day still used the old 427 engine on the drag strips in 1963.

[@mark9531]

@@williamwhite9767 Good morning William. You are correct. Nicholson, Sox, Martin of dragstrip fame were still using the Z11 427 design from the 409 engine. What I understand was that these were Chevrolet's design for NASCAR. Smokey Yunick and Johnson's team were given the engines to race. Johnson was the only one to see much victory with the Mystery Motor during 1963. Though it was fast on qualifying (165mph) it had mechanical problems on the track. Supposedly there were 50 of these engines ready to race at Chevrolet when the hammer fell on racing in early 1963. If Chevrolet had kept their racing division and refined the Mystery Motor, it might have given the Mopar 426 Hemi a run for it's money in the late 60s Hybrids of the Mystery Motor began showing up in Corvettes in 1965. Interesting history

[@williamwhite9767]

Another piece of Don Nicholson history is that a drag strip in Greenville NC got him to show up one Sunday after he had won the winternationals in 62. The strip was short, 1/5 of a mile and narrow with a turn during the stopping due to the lack of land space. Everybody was eliminated but Don and a pushbutton Plymouth out of Norfolk. I noticed that every time Don ran due to the narrow track he kept close to the center line causing his opponent to run close to the edge of the pavement. When Don's 62 Chevy and the Plymouth ran for the win, the race was very close and towards the end of the race the Plymouth ran off the track and did some flips killing the driver. Don won according to the flag man. They had announced that the Plymouth was for sale for $3200 just before he ran that last race.

[@sprinterofblack8186]

I remember stumbling upon this story a few years back. One can only imagine if NASCAR tried this again back in 2003. Picture this: Gen 4 cars (Taurus, Intrepid, Monte Carlo, Grand Prix) VS GT class cars (Viper, Corvette, 911, M3) Closest one can get to emulating this type of race would be in a videogame.