The Portrait of a Broken Automotive Industry

With record-high car prices, dealer markups, more expensive financing, and inventory shortages the automobile industry is set for dark times. We discuss the problems today, and for future generations of car buyers.
#cars #business #technology

[@edwinlomonaco6754]

As a master certified automotive technician I can attest to the ever increasing complexity of the car. There is also a shift happening in the automotive technician and repair industry. The kind of person who wants to repair cars professionally isn't the same kind of person it used to be. A lot of technicians are getting aged out. Many aren't keeping up with the technologies being implemented. The diagnostic fees are going up. The percentage of erroneous diagnoses is going up. It's getting more and more difficult to diagnose cars to a point where the inevitability of getting it wrong is going up. Situations that I've dealt with like a BMW that had faulty wheel speed sensors which caused the power windows to be inoperable. And so young people aren't interested in working on cars anymore. Most people don't realize that technicians have to buy their own tools. And if you expect to diagnose cars, which becoming more and more what working on cars is, you have to have scantools. Fully compatible scantools are in the 2k to 5k range. And no one scantool does everything the best. So more often than not you have to have multiple scantools in order to cover all makes. So in scantools alone one could spend 10k easily. In my 18 years I've easily spent hundreds of thousands in tools. The relation is that as cars keep getting more and more complicated so do the tools required to work on them. Every manufacturer now has a special set of tools to do timing chains now. This same issue is happening in housing. All apartments are continuously raising the rent. At some point you'll price out all the tenants. And the people that can afford the apartment can afford to buy a house. So why would they rent? All these industries are getting way out of control.

[@allenhooper8532]

Anecdotally this is true for me. I was a tech for GM for a bit. Got paid $11/hour. Couldn’t afford anything especially proprietary tools. Ended up leaving to deliver groceries for $20/hr~~.

[@edwinlomonaco6754]

@@allenhooper8532 Wholy shit. A tech for 11/hr?! That's insane. I've never heard of a tech being paid so little.

[@frankbonura5710]

Lets go back to pushrods and 24" timing chains.

[@MrCarGuy]

Yes, the cost of living in general has continued to increase, and without wages increasing to match inflation

[@cliffordduhh45]

Not sure if you’re willing to give buying advice, but what do you think about buying a pickup in this market? I have a few months to wait, but will have to jump out of a 20 year old car into a 2017-2023 pickup. I was thinking new, based on long terms and “good” rates, but I can’t stand the complexity and prices of new rigs. I’d almost go older just for a bit more simplicity, but as a traveling rep I’d be putting a ton of miles on a used truck that already has some miles on it.

[@Bargawd]

Appreciate that Mark showed love to us common folk by ditching the Patagonia for his best Kirkland Signature sweater. A man of the people.

[@k-peezy2723]

I'm still suspicious that he has a marketing deal in with Patagonia at this point...

[@petertrd]

Honestly, the grey non-hoodie kirkland sweatshirt is soooo comfortable. I was hoping the black hoodie would have been made out of the same material but it is not. It's still comfortable, but not as comfortable.

[@zephead843]

I get that, however one could interpret the Kirkland hoodie (looks like a hoodie) as a sign of affluence, as not everyone can afford to shop at Costco. That doesn't change the fact that Mark is indeed a man of the people. If Mark should ever show up in a Kirkland manager's vest, well, that could change everything.

[@cwx8]

Patagonia has successfully convinced people that they are somehow different than other clothing companies. It's hilarious. Another anti petroleum company that uses shit tons of petroleum.

[@bb5242]

I walked into Costco the other day and realized that almost everything I was wearing was bought there--underwear, pants, and my coat.

[@Garnelo]

As a 20 year old college student, it’s scary how expensive everything is getting. Tuition, housing, healthcare, cars etc, the dream my immigrant parents had when coming here is going farther away from reality, and it’s extremely disappointing

[@RatusMax]

Dude, same here...I went to school during the 2008 recession....It never really came back from that...I mean 21 T on the war on terror....all that money for what? the death of one man? Not worth it at all. 21 T could have transformed the fabric of this nation to something so forward. Yet it was wasted on war.

[@justcommenting4981]

Capitalism baybeeeee It's sunny at the top.

[@TheBandit7613]

College? For what? I have a regular blue collar job as a heavy equipment operator. It's about 115,000 a year. And I've slowly been buying houses and renting them out. The lower end of the market where most people are. I keep rents as low as I can so there's virtually no turnover. I'm getting close to retirement. I have a couple million dollars equity in these houses plus my pension. I have a handyman that does all the repairs and he's reasonable. My tenants know that they can help me keep rents lower by taking care of the property. That benefits us both. Covid, I never evicted anyone. I had a lot of late pays but I worked with them and they were grateful. I promised I wouldn't throw anyone out. College is such a waste of money.

[@rnt45t1]

If you haven't, DO NOT TAKE OUT ANY STUDENT LOANS! FIND WAYS TO PAY FOR COLLEGE OR DROP OUT. I'm DEAD SERIOUS. I'm 34 and just paid mine off. I'm almost 15 years behind in life because I went to school and took loans.

[@ClassicDominic]

@@justcommenting4981 yeah with communism we wont even have to worry about cars just starving to death!

[@billwhite8711]

I'm in my 60s, and I retired a few months before the pandemic. I've been a car enthusiast since before I had my driver's license. My post-retirement plan was to buy a fun, somewhat aspirational car that my wife and I would enjoy while we're still young enough to take road trips. Shopping has proven frustrating for many of the reasons you outlined, so much so that it seems we'll be keeping our 2011 minivan and 2012 hot hatch for the foreseeable future. Dealer behavior has just about killed the last of my automobile enthusiasm.

[@icedout2322]

Tesla has made the push a button and order a car to easy add the covid lock downs and this is what you get. I will say Tesla builds a fun car to drive , wickedly quick and no maintenance at all, plus if I have an issue they show up at my house and fix it.

[@kalmmonke5037]

aptera motors

[@kalmmonke5037]

aptera is very wide car but you maybe ok with it, nobe isnt so wide and it may make you rerember things

[@lapatrie6568]

2007 focus& 2016 Silverado. I will keep them going until I am in the ground🥃

[@Thinginator]

Just buy a classic car and take good care of it. It’s fun, and contrary to popular belief a well sorted classic is plenty reliable. You’ll get more waves, smiles, and thumbs up than you would in any modern car as well.

[@groovygannon]

I have worked as a technician for several dealerships. The similarity they share is the constant need to get bigger, sell cars, and always reminding their employees they are losing money. All the time. Yet the owner, who inherited the business from his father, shows off his $3million car he just bought on instagram. They quite often offer no substantial guaranteed wage. One day when you leave due to a commission pay plan that has withered due to economic and supply chain machinations far beyond your control they begin to gripe about how no one wants to work anymore. Also they are losing more money. Then buy 4 more small dealers whose founder died and the kids want to cash out.

[@dr._breens_beard]

I mean they're right along with all the other greedy fucks.. no one wants to work anymore, for the pennies on the dollar at offer.

[@Beer_Dad1975]

Don't disagree with businesses screwing over employees - but at least in my part of the world, even bigger businesses (the manufacturers) are busy trying to screw over the dealerships. Here Mercedes recently introduced their "price promise" - Honda quickly followed. What is means is fixed retail prices for all vehicles and options and the customer cannot negotiate with the dealer anymore. On the flip side the dealership can't mark the vehicle up if it is in high demand either - it's good for customers who aren't good negotiating, or customers who want a high demand low supply vehicle - it's bad for everyone else including the dealership as they can't shift slow moving stock by discounting it etc. - which is now becoming a problem again as supply slowly returns to normal. Anyway, Mercedes is Mercedes, so they seem to keep selling OK, though the dealerships are now suing MB. Honda on the other hand have tanked - nobody wants to buy a Honda at a fixed price when they can go to the Toyota or Hyundai dealership next door and negotiate a discount and some free options. Honda have lost massive market share in the last year.

[@tony10980]

Lmao, my local car dealership, Van Horn, recently got into property development. They are building luxury apartments and townhomes that are 1.6K+ while swallowing up all the budget lots.

[@dr._breens_beard]

@@tony10980 those places will sit empty so long they'll be forced to sell long term. People dont make that kind of money and when people get paid enough to live once wages catch up (they will, companies are finally figuring out that 2021 was NOT a blip and the labor shortage is here to stay) people will just commute from cheaper satellite towns. Hilarious that people think high-income luxo apartments will be profitable by any stretch of the imagination

[@weswest8666]

Oddly specific

[@carhubpremium3752]

As a ex car salesman, these dealerships and the management working in them are the most slimy and scummy people I’ve met, they look at people as nothing more than a check

[@braetonwilson4296]

Carmakers are also equally slimy and scummy. Carmakers like Ford and Toyota are purposely limiting production of all their vehicles so they can make more profit. They're creating artificial scarcity. I sell Toyotas and Toyota has told all the dealerships that they will get a lot less units from now on permanently.

[@SantanKGhey1234]

thats dealer principal/owner pushing the practice down to the floor.. all they care is to get the most profit possible plus get the numbers for more allotment.... its a nasty cycle that in the end the consumer is the looser

[@jareknowak8712]

Yeah, its called capitalism.

[@braetonwilson4296]

@@jareknowak8712 Jared Nowak from Blade?

[@theglowcloud2215]

Stealerships should be banned outright by the federal government.

[@dougrobinson8602]

My Wife's grandfather and uncle ran a great CDRJ dealership in rural Texas. It was the typical Mom and Pop dealership older viewers might remember from decades ago. The employees were treated like family. When her grandfather died, we were in the limo behind the hearse and went past the dealership. Every single employee who was working stood somberly outside to pay respect to the man who started the business that puts food on their table. It was one of the most touching things I have seen in my life. Fast forward a few years, and that dealership was bought out by a chain of dealerships. Almost all of those dedicated employees got pink slipped and replaced with high pressure sales and finance people. It's just a damn shame. Personally, I'm driving a 2010 car. Parts are available, and the suspension is endlessly rebuildable and upgradable. Steering is hydraulic and effort builds in the most satisfying way. I got a new loaner when I took it in for the airbag recall. I could not wait to get my car back. The new car was faster, but soulless. I'm going to keep this one until it's either a pile of rust, or illegal to drive.

[@henrik1743]

Well spoken sir

[@chucky29949]

there are many people out there who have never driven hydraulic steering, only electric... *shudder* manual steering in a super light car is best though

[@menwaralanazi47]

This comment is actually more interesting than the video ....

[@WeAreChecking]

It's a bummer as someone looking to get into a car to hear stuff like that. I obviously agree with you that those are the types of cars worth having. But when nobody wants to sell theirs, people like me are stuck in the middle with no good options. Nothing against you or people like you, I know it's the same decision I'd make. But it's hard to get excited about anything in the car space as a semi-broke 22 year old, even if cars are my biggest passion in life

[@LoveMyZJ]

Get that baby undercoated! We've lost so many great cars over the years to salt and snow-melting chemicals :(

[@GDFSTi257]

You nailed it. I’ve always been a “car guy”, and finally landed a good job in my early 30s. Can’t afford a house, can’t afford a fun new car, don’t want what they’re calling “economy cars” (expensive junk with complicated components designed to fail and only be supported by the dealer). Guess I’ll keep driving my 22 year old beater with well over 250k miles because it’s paid off and I can keep it running myself.

[@jooot_6850]

the capitalist fears the 20 year old civic owner

[@SparkZ1420]

Just keep buying used my friend. And ALWAYS consider when buying used "Will this car still have parts available 20 years from now?" I have a 06 GTO as my hobby car and it was only in production for 3 years and parts are hard to find and very expensive. But luckily my GMC and my Honda Civic are super common vehicles where I can find parts with my eyes closed.

[@skullkid73]

Until emission requirements force you to either fake a smog, or retire your car.

[@angelgjr1999]

Learn to turn wrenches. Fix your own cars. My 20 year old car looks better than most 5 year old “new” cars.

[@ovp66223]

@@skullkid73 Thankfully, where I am at, they stop requiring emission testing after 25 year old. My 1997 pickup didn't need a test this year. I will be keeping it for a long time because it is SIMPLE and easy to fix. If I get hit, it will cost $1000 to repair instead of $10,000 due to all those stupid cameras and the required calibrations after the costly alignment of the sensors. My 03 Accord has a few years of emissions left, and I plan to keep it another 10 years. I just need to change some weather-stripping and seals that are hardening after 19 years of being outside.

[@Taykorjg]

I’m in Texas. Cars are a way of life by force. If you can’t drive, you can’t get to work or the grocery store. A lot of younger people are advocating public transit more so than whatever car is coming out

[@Mayesyy]

Omg. Thank you so so much for verbalising what I was grappling with emotionally for the past month when car shopping. I couldn't put a finger on why I was feeling like this, many sleepless nights! For the last month I've been wondering why I was hating the process, hating the mundane microwaves on wheels, hating the subscription service, hating the fake smiles and coffee offers, hating paying $3K for audio upgrade knowing I could build one way better for $1k. I hate everything about the current car market and the cost just rubs salt in the wounds. I actually walked away from Audi when trying to trade in my A1 because the experience left such a bad taste in my mouth. I just want to buy an old piece of metal that works but which I actually love. I can fix the sound, someone qualified can fix the engine. I can own and love it forever. I can't thank you enough for validating my feelings.

[@cbatiau2528]

Research is your best friend when it comes to buying a car -- new or used. Never rely on a dealership for anything except test drives, and always custom-build your new car if at all possible (especially when looking at luxury cars). Porsche "hates" people like me because I buy a base car and put almost nothing in it (no glass roof, no larger wheels than standard, no "fancier" exhaust pipes, no "upgraded" sound system, no extra leather, etc., etc.) and get it for usually several thousand under MSRP (as a repeat customer). It's possible to get a luxury car for quite cheap and enjoy it for the standard features without adding lots of expensive add-ons, and I do exactly that every time. Do your research in advance, online, and go into a dealership knowledgeable about what you want, and they'll step back and give you respect because you know more than they do. Numerous dealerships have told me that I should be a salesman there because I know much more about the cars that they are selling. And I never get pressured for anything when buying a car, because they know better. It's the best way to make buying a new car a breeze, honestly.

[@mike9588]

So happy you talked about this, been sitting here like “how are people paying 40k for a Corolla and don’t care”

[@pheasant139]

20 year old college student who is looking to buy my first car. When FL5 came out I was so excited as a die hard Honda / Toyota fan. I told myself I would have nothing else but that car. Then MSRP dropped. I'm a mechanical engineering major so I told myself 43k is not impossible, I just need to graduate early, find a good job, work for a year or two and I can have my FL5. Then I started to see all the markups. Frankly, they destroyed my dream of owning a brand new Type R. So, I started looking elsewhere. FK8? Value holds strong at 35-40k, with a lot of miles and abuses going into them. GR86? Either pay markup or wait for a whole year and compete with 50 other people on the list to buy it. BRZ? Same story as GR86. GR Corolla? Same story and even rarer than all cars mentioned above. Ok then what about Civic Si / new Integra? New ones are not exciting at all yet still sits around 30k. Old ones are nearly 22k out of the door of dealers, and conditions are not even good. Not worth it I guess. WRX? I hate the new one, and the old ones are still 25-30k (same story goes to old 86/BRZ/FRS), with an engine, at that mileage and abuse level, basically sitting in the car as a time bomb. I was left with NO options at all. What in the world is going on in this market? My family is fairly well off and I don't pay student loans, yet even my family can't really make purchase decisions now just because of the sheer absurdity going on. That enthusiast living inside me is dying. Now I only look at sub 15k old cars because anything beyond that seems to be a ripoff.

[@jooot_6850]

when you can snatch a 20 year old sports car for like 15k, I see absolutely zero reason to buy new. Spend double the price on an overly complex piece of junk that'll break down and cost you a kidney to fix? nah, mate. I'll stick to an older, higher mileage car because I at least wouldn't have to spend a month's rent on financing it

[@-Sam-S]

Get a motorcycle. Best decision I’ve ever made and it is so much more fun and less expensive than a car. You can pick up a 400-600cc naked bike for $5-6k and get a used Corolla/civic for commuting for $10-15k

[@DerpEye]

Welcome to europe. A sports car here is no option for 90% of young and not so young people. Prices are even higher, the choice of different models is nonexistent, maintenance is extremely expensive and gasoline costs 3 times what it is in the US. For a time i wanted to buy an mx5, the last gen one. Yeah, today a second hand one of 6/7 years costs as much as it did when it was brand new. Fuck that. As others said, get a motorcycle while it's still an option. I've been a biker for a decade, tried different types, and all in all, after 6 motorcycles, i spent less than a brand new mx5.

[@fuckingpippaman]

hahahahahha 43k . The first i car i ever had at 31yrs (not even owned) is a Fiat 500 . 97' 900cc. For free. Not ever gonna throw away 43k for some piece of shit honda or toyota shit that i can't reliably fix. Ah yeah i'm also an auto mechanic by studies. Ofc i'm in europe and could get by with bus and scooters. But fuck that , 43k ? no fucking way.

[@pokeosinisor]

Motorcycles are cheaper and more fun anyways! come to the dark side

[@bassfan71]

I love when Mark has a heart to heart with the audience and speaks the truth!

[@KevinBurkeRacing]

I heard a dealership owner explain to me how it's so bad that he "has to wait an extra long time to get his fully loaded f350 truck" the one he buys new every year. Just after he told me there is an ADM on a transit passenger van I needed for my business. I've held out as long as I can and will buy private party now for the rest of my life. That's how gutted and upset I am at "most" dealers

[@singular9]

I am upset at EVERY Dealership. I think I have called about 200 of them in my area (for NEW vehicles by the way) and all of them decided to try to sell me a 25,000$ car for 40 grand with a smug look on their faces. Now I am getting phone calls with "lower prices" because they have dozens of them that no one wants.

[@clifftaylor3295]

I couldn't agree more. I vow to never buy from the modern car dealership again. I would MUCH rather spend a couple months browsing the private party used car market, and working with an individual.

[@bedlambikes]

@@singular9 NEVER buy from ANY of them that tried to sell for over MSRP. I'll be telling dealers that 20 years from now.

[@EmpReb]

@@clifftaylor3295 and this is why Tesla sell yo consumer model will win.

[@sturdyvw]

@@EmpReb BecaUSe teSLA NevER RaisEs PricEs aND yoU CaN NegOtiatE wITH theM...

[@audiovisualautos445]

As a 21 y/o college student graduating in the spring with a Econ degree, this video hit home. As someone who is passionate about the auto industry, and as someone who is searching for a career within it, it’s hard not to notice how unstable it’s future looks. Of course there will always be people with money, or people who foolishly finance something outside their means, but undoubtedly it has become much harder to find a new vehicle. I appreciate the amount of thought that went into this video and would like to see more like it!

[@bb5242]

Kid, it's not just the auto industry--we're headed for a total economic collapse.

[@cgatito3528]

I think it all boils down to government involvement and subsequent failure (as usual). Too much regulation forcing overcomplexity and higher costs for vehicles. Forced shutdowns over covid that decimated supply chains. We didn't need to shut down. Look at Florida and Sweden. Franchise laws maintained by powerful lobbying of politicians to prevent direct buying. FED printing Trillions of dollars and driving inflation higher. And on and on.

[@marcusvision]

Same here (23) , im soooo glad I had financial literacy class in highschool and then learning about stocks mixed with college just opened my eyes to how pretty much people just trying to make a living. Even at the cost of low/middle income families priced out but yet... wanting their bucks.

[@dr._breens_beard]

Few people have that money anymore. Its why the housing market will prolly enter freefall within 5 years. Underpaying people ever since reagan decoupled productivity from compensation was the single most destructive thing to the us econony and whats even worse is it took decades for the wealthy to utterly obliterate the bottom 80% of wealth but now we get to feel the direct effects.

[@ianmcmahon8589]

Check into the corporate offices of Group1 and AutoNation. The big groups spread the risk out. It also gets you experience working for medium size corporations.

[@Henfredemars]

As a software developer I really appreciate you connecting the automotive industry to the mobile market. It hit me like a brick when you made that connection.

[@AlanForde-CheyneMS]

I think the late 80's to early 2000s was the sweet spot for automotive engineering and outward style, and reasonable tech of cars with still some simplicity left in the equation

[@phillipblount5541]

Bingo. Nothing is good enough for these people though. They have to over complicate everything.

[@spurgear4]

I totally agree late 80s early 90s Toyotas and Hondas, I miss you

[@wiegraf9009]

I have a 2007 Lexus and it's just on the edge before everything got over digitized. Gonna keep it running as long as possible

[@andreidascalu5222]

You’re spot on mate! Car companies still had balls to turn up exciting, fun designs, driver orientated. Nowadays we’ve got “different styles” of a refrigerator with touchscreens and huge prices. Great times!

[@lucagentile4674]

Yes! I completely agree. I had a 2009 Ford crown Victoria and despite having an ECU and a bunch of different sensors it was still relatively easy and cheap to do at home repairs.

[@rruutt]

As someone in that 18-25 range who has always liked cars and enjoys driving, it's crushing to see where the car industry has been going. Even if I have the money when I get older, I'll never throw it away on a new car. The issue is that you also see 8k rust bucket Miatas all over marketplace these days. I've wanted one for a long time but I think the semi recent hype for them in my age group killed any hope I had in getting one while I still have my college years to mess around.

[@Lazuriteplays]

I feel your pain. I paid 11k for a clean NB under 60k, after turning down another one at 14k (nightmare needing a new engine). I'm just happy I have one, and I'm never letting it go.

[@LOVE-VIBES-X-PROJECT-CARS]

Try searching in places like Mississippi, Tennessee, Georgia, and Alabama. I tend to find prices of cars lower there Edit: what's your budget btw

[@Ryan57Garr]

If you find one, keep it and never sell. I had a very clean, Texas-owned ‘94 M edition with the Torsen LSD, and beautiful tan leather interior. It makes me sick that I let it go.

[@rruutt]

@@Ryan57Garr I would treat it like my child if I ever obtained one.

[@fortheloveofnoise]

@@LOVE-VIBES-X-PROJECT-CARS expensive as hell in Georgia..... Alabama and Tennessee are much better.

[@jessehines444]

I’m in the tractor business with a fairly large OEM. As a field service rep I can see most all of these same issues happening in the tractor market. Prices have skyrocketed, and product being on allocation is killing the mom and pop dealers that made our business what it is today. It’s almost as though the OEM’s knew all this was coming, as we were getting pushed before the pandemic to squeeze dealers on their facilities. On my side of the business, it was all about how hard can we squeeze a Dealer to make money on the service side. I have said for many years now that the government will be legislating the internal combustion engine out of existence, and here we are. As the AG industry tries to go electric, its becoming a train wreck. No one wants to be left in the middle of their field or property with a dead battery and virtually no way to charge it. Let alone the complexity that comes with this tech. There’s wholes teams of people that develop this tech, yet the OEM’s expect one or two people at a Dealer to be capable of repairing it. This really is a sad state of affairs as we get to watch our passion, and livelihood disappear in real time.

[@seththomas9105]

I'm from a Ag background and you hit the nail on the head, Jesse. I've watched dealership after dealership get squeezed out and close or merge here in Iowa since the 1980's. The merger of White, A-C, Ford, New Holland, IHC/Case and the overall loss of the "smaller" dealerships in every county means farmers have to travel farther and farther for parts and service and the OEM's are just like car dealerships when it comes to making the dealership have a mega-showplace for a dealership. In fact I would say the OEM tractor industry lead the charge on makin dealers get big or get out.

[@daytonasixty-eight1354]

A friend told me that for his 2010ish BMW base model, the dealer quoted him $800 to change FOUR spark plugs but they "discounted" it for him to $350. He walked away. They are trying to squeeze and fuck over everyone now. I will likely never take a car to a mechanic again (certainly not a dealership) unless I am absolutely desperate for some work I cannot do. I am stockpiling parts and tools.

[@kensmechanicalaffair]

There reasoning for migrating to EV is completely stupid. It would supercharge the coal industry. We need a purge.

[@Fantabiscuit]

EVs are not complex

[@daytonasixty-eight1354]

@@Fantabiscuit EVs aren't complex. The mountain of software that is behind them is however. You can brute force an internal combustion engine to run. You cannot brute force a glorified computer on wheels to run.

[@Sentient6ix]

A few weeks ago, some people were telling me to get rid of my BRZ. Asking me why i would hang onto. These people were fellow enthusiasts, but they're in the mindset of buying and selling constantly. This video perfectly puts into words why I would rather hang onto it as opposed to ditching it for something else

[@mrs_radrod]

I’ve seen people get absolutely destroyed living that lifestyle. You’ll wake up one day $30k+ upside down on a car that is so far removed from your dream car. It’s not worth it to live without contentment.

[@GrumpyIan]

A couple of my friends gave me shit why I still have my mustang. Well it may not be in the best of shape and doesn't have features like a reverse camera, abs, or traction control, but I paid $4500 for it 6 years ago and has served me well, and at this point I much rather drop a thousand dollars or two to get work done on it then to sell my kinndies for a new car.

[@Thinginator]

Keeping a car long term is much more satisfying than constantly buying something else anyway! The longer you own and drive a car, the more you understand and adjust to its quirks, the more you make it your own, and the bigger the bond you form with it! Don’t let anyone tell you to sell a car you love that’s working just fine for you, they’re the idiots with an unsustainable lifestyle who have yet to learn the value of contentment and commitment.

[@wiegraf9009]

That's a nice car and you're doing the right thing.

[@johnpearson492]

I love daily driving older cars. My current daily is a 99 BMW M3. It was cheap, $8k, and I wouldn't trade it for anything new today. New cars are numb and over polished. The BRZ is a great choice, I've spent a lot of time behind the wheel of an FRS, they are highly dynamic drivers.

[@patricks.7951]

A dealership I used to be a technician for raised the price of a vehicle I took home overnight for a test drive while I had it. I was like dang what are y'all doing to the customers then, if you're gonna do this to an employee. Salesman was like well we got a bunch of leads for it online so we raised the price, sorry. Luckily I took a screenshot of the listing from the website the day prior, and used the presidents open door policy and angrily complained about it.

[@billd9667]

I noticed this recently. I checked for certain models on local dealers web sites and found models that were available at near sticker. Within days, they pumped the prices up $3-5K. I can only assume that, like the scientific theorem, observing something changed the result. The dealers saw an uptick in interest, and rewarded that with a corresponding increase in price. These are the times we live in. The internet has changed everything. I can’t wait for when Amazon nukes the dealerships and I can “Add car to cart” and have it delivered the next day. Screw the dealers.

[@Jasiel.95]

@@billd9667 Amazon getting involved in vehicles I cannot imagine us benefiting.

[@yucannthahvitt251]

@@billd9667 If you think the great amazoning is good from any standpoint other than short term convenience, you are one of the most ignorant people in these comments.

[@billd9667]

@@Jasiel.95 It doesn’t have to be Amazon. Any online store will do. I’m sick of dealer nonsense - padded service recommendations, after sales scare tactics and now $5000 increased demand “add dumdum” stickers. I have never shopped the same dealership twice because I can’t trust any of them. Oh wait, I got a Geo Prizm in 1994 from a guy who was later promoted to Manager. I told him right away that we can do the deal easy or hard. I asked for a small discount so that we could both feel good about the deal and get it done quick. He agreed and I was in and out of there in two hours. Everyone was happy. How often does that happen? Unfortunately, I relocated before selling it off, so I never had the opportunity to return, thank him and shop another car from that dealership.

[@CrackedCandy]

@@billd9667 carvana anyone?

[@TheBigFatTater]

The real issue: cars are a necessity in North America, whereas they are optional in most of the rest of the world. When you make cars a necessity, "practicality" rules, the average person dictates what is important, and any issues associated with vehicles (like financing, or fuel economy) are amplified and carry a higher societal burden. In Europe, sports cars and cheap economy cars are still alive because owning a car is often a choice or born out of unique circumstances. If a car is no longer a necessity, you can buy a car that's compromised, like most enthusiast vehicles. Likewise, if you have access to all your needs by foot at home, but commute to work, you can buy a Volkswagen Golf and have a fun car that gets 40 mpg on the highway, but carves up back roads on the weekend. You no longer need a massive car that can haul two adults, some kids, and all your crap. To participate in the American economy and lifestyle, you are required to have a car or you won't get far (literally). GM and other car manufacturers ensured we HAD to drive cars decades ago by giving busses to cities in exchange for them tearing out fantastic public transportation. When that public transportation was no longer an option, cars became increasingly necessary for average people, and in time, just felt like the natural choice for personal transportation, but it isn't. That feeling was manufactured. Until we make cars optional in North America, we will be left with horrible, soulless, SUV crossovers, that have terrible drivetrains because they need to meet insane emissions goals and family needs due to our outsized reliance on cars as daily transportation. The moment cars are no longer required for our daily lives, we will start to see cheaper cars (less pricing power over average people) and more enthusiast vehicles (since they will represent a higher percentage of car buyers).

[@nazart7830]

The is the comment that should be pinned

[@thatoneotherotherguy]

Well said. Car dependent growth is a huge financial problem in the US, and it predominantly destroys the poorer classes. We don't have a "free market" for cars when a huge percentage of the population is absolutely forced to own a car, similar to housing markets. I engineer roadway projects. The initial, ongoing, and replacement costs of huge wide asphalt roads everywhere would make your eyes water. There's a reason your property taxes are blowing up; the costs of these things are coming home to roost. Individual cars are an extremely inefficient way to move people and goods where they need to go, and it is bleeding us dry. I say this as the kind of person that would never give up their vehicles even if the transit network was perfect, because I like sporty canyon drives, and I like camping and exploring in the absolute middle of nowhere. But if I could get around town for errands/functions easily without a car, I sure would. NotJustBikes is an INCREDIBLE channel that discusses this kind of thing.

[@coconutpalm1631]

This is why fully autonomous electric vehicles will be so popular IMO. You won't even need to own a car, you can just 'hail' an autonomous EV to go where you need to. For most people this will be much more economical than owning a car, even if it's an EV, as the utilization of an autonomous EV is higher so the cost per mile is much lower.

[@wackywildpotato1410]

​@@coconutpalm1631 That just sounds like a worse version of public transportation since it still holds most of the problems that come with car dependency...

[@yeboscrebo4451]

Ummm. Vehicle ownership is less of a choice in Europe. More Europeans can’t afford cars mostly because of government regulations and meddling.

[@pattyboi]

I tried to buy a GR86 at MSRP (hard requirement) for around 8 or 9 months; I had two deposits in that never came to fruition so I refunded a couple days ago - I was also met with most dealerships either blatantly charging markups or doing hidden markups like $2000 paint insurance. I ended up buying a used 2009 Honda Civic SI because I got so frustrated. It is so difficult to be a young automotive enthusiast and be excited about the future of new cars when this is the current reality. Thanks for making this video, all the points are exactly what I've been feeling as I'm sure others have as well.

[@lonniemurray4742]

I had this same experience trying to buy a GR86, I even ordered one and they gave me the runaround for a few months so I ended up canceling my order and buying an E46 M3

[@ShadowBend]

Great choice on the 09 Si. I had an 08 Si bought new, and it was one of my favorite cars. Endless aftermarket support at this point for that platform.

[@Khoiwind]

@@lonniemurray4742 lol I literally did the same thing. I'm enjoying my E46! My wallet on the other hand, not so much.

[@lonniemurray4742]

@@Khoiwind haha I felt that!

[@karolstopinski8350]

I got a quote from a dealership on a GR86. Quote said it`s price is 40k. For a 30k MSRP car. Lol.

[@hagerty1952]

When I bought my Alfa GTV in 1975 (as a college graduation present to myself), I could never imagine that I'd still be driving it at essentially the end of the automobile. It currently has 648,000 miles on it (over a million km) and I just spent ~$15K having the powertrain rebuilt so I'm good for a bunch more.

[@jooot_6850]

capitalists fear the 50 year old car owner

[@discozillah]

That's honestly an amazing story! I bought my 94' Nissan Skyline in 2018 as my first car and I sure hope I can still enjoy it for another 40 years to come just like you seem to be doing.

[@hagerty1952]

@@discozillah - Thanks! Here's my most recent rollover video (I haven't gotten around to editing my million km vid yet): kzbin.info/www/bejne/faa1Zn2ifb1maZY

[@spankeyfish]

I can't imagine and Alfa Romeo lasting more than a 200k miles or 15yrs, never mind a 70s one.

[@hagerty1952]

@@spankeyfish - It's all maintenance. The car has a 3,000 mile (5.000 km) maintenance cycle and the engine holds 7 quarts. The trick is keeping the fluids and filters fresh and replacing things when they wear out, but before they fail. Can't say it hasn't been a challenge, though!

[@FlatPlaneCranky]

Every point you touched on is 💯 fact. The enthusiast is being hung out as a owned commodity with new “exciting” vehicles being released. If you can’t pay in extreme excess, you can’t play. “You’ll own nothing and be happy”. -Klaus Schwab, World Economic Forum.

[@icedout2322]

I like that quote its funny to me. Hes evil but what he doesnt understand is if everyone is renting what's to keep the ants from saying ok now I want to keep this and you can go F yourself. Get into bed with politicians and they will eventually do very nasty things to you Schwab has been at the top of the heap to long to understand how bad that would be for him.

[@ronaldmcdonald9322]

You will eat ze bugz!

[@Thinginator]

Automakers always moan about how they don’t make enthusiast cars because there isn’t a large enough market, but I see so many enthusiasts moaning that nobody makes a car they want that that can’t be the case. Especially since on the rare occasions when they do build something enthusiasts want, the artificial scarcity of it drives prices and markups through the roof. There is demand, but it seems like automakers and politicians are trying to gradually kill off the enthusiast market so they can make increasingly homogenized cars.

[@wiegraf9009]

@@Thinginator I doubt manufacturers want to kill off enthusiast cars because it lets them do market segmentation and builds their reputation. I think it's like Mark mentioned elsewhere, the money for those kinds of products ends up being tied up in the EV transition at the moment.

[@cdeanda]

The idea is that we will all depend on someone else's vehicle (big companies) to move around.

[@blikkis1]

This is Magical - I was one of those kids who has always been a car enthusiast. Now that I have established myself professionally, and in a position to think of my first car. The car market and prices are so messed up, I decided to move to a walkable city like Victoria, Canada, where everything is within walking distance, and the only mortgage I should ever worry about is a house, not a damn car.

[@TrinityWilderness1]

Damn Straight, sir. Very well said. Totally UnAmerican to walk everywhere; and I LOVE it! I am forced by my current circumstances to drive a car (Prius), but I’d MUCH rather walk or ride my bike. One day… that dream will become a reality.

[@legrosroger]

Im a car enthusiast like you, but I'm trying to move to a walkablr environment. Cars will to be to move around on weekends and work on. I don't want to be forced to rely on my car to earn a living.

[@AndyL58596]

That's the goal I aspire towards, being able to walk to work. Car ownership is not rewarding and is such a burden. I will be driving my '12 Accord into the ground in the meantime. I used to think I would have a fun weekend car or something special at some point, but I think that dream has died as long as cars are full of screens and all this tech that I don't feel really makes me safer (I'm talking to you Teslas randomly slamming on the brakes at highway speeds).

[@IsitReallyrealreally]

You will own nothing and be happy

[@varmastiko2908]

I've been trying to find a new-ish car to like for a long time now. The massive prices and delays are sadly not a problem for me as there is nothing to like that is made today. As far as I'm concerned cars have been dead for more than ten years now.

[@justinleone3665]

The smartphone analogy is a good one. In the earlier years of smartphones they continuously got major upgrades every year. Now you have to go back through 4 years of smartphone generations to find any major differences. Aside from infotainment tech what's really improved in ICE cars in the past 7 years? Taking out a 45k loan to get a 1-inch bigger screen when the car you own is paid off and works fine sounds utterly insane.

[@normt430]

Except most do not buy used smart phones where used cars are plentiful.

[@nfugitt89]

Economy cars have gotten considerably faster and bigger in the last decade, have gotten standard backup cameras, touchscreens, and Bluetooth. This is not the 70s.

[@ghoulbuster1]

Phones have advanced a lot. My phone 10 years ago would have been over a thousand dollars. Now it costs 100. Cars instead went up in price. But became worse.

[@Surestick88]

One of the issues with older infotainment tech is comparability with newer phones as the software versions get further and further apart. We're in a happy place right now where Bluetooth makes up for a lot of that but how long is that going to last? Bluetooth itself is a bit clunky for what it does, a major revision to fix its issues might mean a loss of backwards compatibility and then the last decade of cars are suddenly back to plugging Bluetooth radio transmitters into their cigarette lighter outlets.

[@MrTresto]

Actually my car is quite a bit better in so many ways beyond infotainment. The B58 inline-6 is an absolute masterpiece and not 7 years old (well certainly not the 382hp variation that I have). It's powerful, smooth, has very little lag, and at last, unlike the older N55 etc, is reliable too. And the mileage is pretty damn good for that much power. And yes the tech is great too. But I bought it for the powertrain and chassis first and foremost, which put together with the luxury and tech make it really amazing.. and that powertrain and chassis didn't exist 4 years ago...

[@davidcarbonara825]

It's nice to hear someone talk about how insanely unaffordable and unappealing car ownership has become for most people. I like track tests and road trip docs as much as the next person, but frankly it feels detached from reality.

[@maximeparent3004]

This video puts words on my thoughts. I’m a huge car guy since I was in kindergarten. My parents showed me how to read on car reviews. My life goes around anything related to cars. I’m now in college and I don’t know how and if I’m going to be able to buy a new car in the future. A little, reliable and inexpensive analog car. Seeing what’s happening in the car industry, this just totally shatters my passion, my soul. Thank’s a lot for your thoughts about this subject, it’s quite comforting.

[@petesmitt]

No such thing as an analog car anymore; I decided in the 90's as cars were obviously becoming computer controlled, that I would get a completely analog car; it was impossible even then and had to buy a van to find a vehicle without a computer or sensors controlling the vehicle.

[@RogerWKnight]

Buy a classic car. There are good classic Americans for less than $30,000. Not the same gas mileage with the E10 alcohol poisoned gasoline, another product of dumbass politicians, but you can buy a lot of gasoline for the price difference between the classic American and any new boringmobile. Learn how to do your own work on it, and you will love driving it after solving a problem or making the adjustment.

[@petkogeorgiev2103]

@@RogerWKnight The alternative to E10 alcohol poisoned gasoline is lead poisoned gasoline, which has been proven (like, literally 100 years ago) to increase death rates and decrease the average IQ of people inhaling that. If we could run cars on 100% ethanol, we would, because that has a higher octane number and allows you to extract more performance out of it, it's just very expensive.

[@Sugurain]

@@petkogeorgiev2103 Most cars in Brazil can run on 100% ethanol (as they are bi-fuel, and can take both gas and ethanol). Ethanol is not exactly perfect, it likes to clog injectors SPECIALLY in direct injection engines, unless you implement a insane filtration system in the gas stations, similar to what they use for Diesel. For cold starts they also need either a heater in the injectors (more modern cars) or a small gasoline tank, for mixing it with the ethanol at the fuel rail (found in 90s-2000s cars) Older cars, back in the 70-80s, ran with pure ethanol, they sucked at cold starts lol, but it definitely worked fine in the carburator era. We don't have freezing temperatures in the winter here though.

[@StreetForged]

Just build an old car and you'll get to enjoy something that actually has driver feedback and is affordable. Modern cars are a complete bore to drive anyway. I spent less than people do on a KIA and I have a manual swapped, turboed Volvo 240 that's basically completely built top to bottom with custom or aftermarket parts. It's extremely cheap and easy to fix, it's reliable as hell and has been my daily for almost 5 years, never stuck in snow on a welded diff rwd with coilovers, and it handles and accelerates better than anything you'll get for an affordable price in stock trim. If you really like cars, don't waste your time with stock. I went to school for IT and did this as a hobby starting when I was 18, and at 27 I can build an entire car by myself and fabricate almost anything I need. Modern tech is a waste of time unless you're putting a standalone ECU in your car and just serves to dull your experience and hit you with more bills.

[@Eldaino999]

The middle man, in literally everything imaginable, is always the bane of whatever industry they insert themselves into. Also: videos like this are why y’all are the best channel, hands down.

[@uncreativename9936]

Cool it with the anti-semetic remarks

[@kabysummit5801]

The middle man can do so much good and so much more than they do. but they don't. they don't leverage quality services like human touch, they don't pursue technology innovations to service their customers, they instead play games and show the worst side of humanity like judging people and make snarky comments. people have spoken.

[@joe718gt4]

This is why in China centuries ago merchants were classified as the lowest class of society. They didn't really benefit society

[@myusernamewasinuse]

@@kabysummit5801 mfers talking about human touch like we're ordering massages lmfao. we're buying a car, the middle man is there just to skim extra money off the top, thats it. In fact they literally only exists because they banded together to make it illegal to not buy through them. Dealerships wouldnt even exist today if they didnt rig the game in their favor, the only service they exist for is to make you pay over msrp for no reason.

[@Nikephorus]

I'm still driving a 2005 truck because a couple years ago my wife and I had to purchase a new vehicle to replace hers and the experience with the dealership was so terribad that I just want to drive my truck into the ground. I even contemplated not replacing it when it dies and trying to make due with one vehicle. The costs of vehicles is becoming ridiculous, the dealership add-ons are ridiculous and now they want subscription fees so that you can get access to all your vehicles features. It's insane and I just want nothing to do with it.

[@jonesjones7057]

Just buy a crate or used engine if/when it dies. Same with tranny, new or used all over the place. I'm doing that for my 2005 Armada when it dies. Has 220k miles and when it gives up, I'm just replacing whatever need be because ultimately it's way cheaper, and better yet it's just a simple vehicle. I can do almost anything myself. It's our Griswold family truckster! You may not like it now, but wait till you drive it!

[@cgatito3528]

I'm in the same boat. Nursing a 2005 F-150 (which has never been in the shop, knock on wood). If it croaks, will probably just rely on my '17 Elantra until this whole shitshow resets.

[@austen8078]

I have a 2005 acura MDX I inherited from the family with the assumption I would run it into the ground and then move onto something new. It has over 300k miles and it still runs really well. I've been waiting for it to die to get a new car, but it is nice having cheap insurance and not stressing about something happening to it, and it's been paid off since forever. I bought a motorcycle for fun and I'm surprised more people don't buy economical commuter sedans and get motorcycles, they're so much more fun than luxury sports cars--not even close. And the insurance, maintenance, and fuel economy is generally way cheaper. They're not overloaded with tech, and it's more engaging driving a bike than a car.

[@aprtur]

@@austen8078 I don't know, I think for a lot of practical people, bikes are too high risk. Personally, I absolutely love sport bikes, and would love an old FZR400...but the risk of Karen in her Honda Odyssey killing me because she had to show off her new pinkberry Starbucks on TikTok while Jimmy is screaming in the back seat puts me off the idea. As a track toy, maybe...but then again, that draws me to something like a dedicated track car.

[@varmastiko2908]

@@jonesjones7057 Better to buy that spare engine and transmission now while you still can.

[@thermonuculur]

As a car enthusiast whose excitement is ever-dulling by rising new and used car prices, it appears the writing is on the wall for the car industry. You nailed it w.r.t. worries, and the tendency of the customer to be screwed by car manufacturers' and dealers' natural responses to market conditions. The automotive industry had its heyday, and if car enthusiasm is to survive it will be relegated to owners who preserve their aging classics, and pay-per-experience managed driving experiences. The constraints the industry faces of energy cost (fuel price, manufacturing costs) and ecological concerns will push the ownership cost of well-built exciting cars out of reach, and drive driver-first design into extinction for all but the most expensive garage-queen collector pieces. Pricvey tech-first, engagement last electric cars will be the prevailing standard. Hopefully the younger generation's lack of car enthusiasm of can be channeled into support for public transit and prevent the seemingly inevitable carmageddon of congested roads in the US, such that when those of us who do enjoy driving our then-classic beaters want to go for a drive it won't suck.

[@Gamblor24]

Thank you Mark for this video, so well said. After 14 months of waiting for my new Toyota Highlander ( first new car ever purchased), I have made a commitment to never bring the vehicle back for service at the dealership. Over the course of the past year I have seen them give my allocation to another customer willing to trade in their vehicle to cut the line, adding another 6 months to my wait time. I will never again buy new, but this market gave me no other option as the used market is also crazy.

[@readtherealanthonyfaucibyr6444]

And nobody in the comment is talking about WHY the market is this way. Who is killing the industry? The people in D.C. who force industries to follow questionable "science" and kill their industry as a result. It isn't "the market", it isn't "these days", it's something very very specific that everyone seems to be self censoring from their minds.

[@kabloosh699]

With a new car always take it back to the dealership for warranty work. After that, yes go find an independent shop to do the work or do it yourself.

[@wingmantx]

Those scumbags deserve a 1-star review on every single platform

[@jooot_6850]

@@readtherealanthonyfaucibyr6444 Cool it with the anti-semetic remarks.

[@readtherealanthonyfaucibyr6444]

@@jooot_6850 Antisemitic? Not at all. My comment was clearly espousing white supremacy, nothing more.

[@TimPaddy]

Mark really gets it. I'm just glad you guys have found a way to make me watch automotive content, in a day where I hate just about every new offering on the market.

[@nitepatrol1873]

Thanks for taking the time to make this particular video. This conversation needs to be more widespread among the KZbinrs.

[@readtherealanthonyfaucibyr6444]

Though always remember everything said on this censor happy platform must abide by their "you can't criticize environmental science" terms of service. The people who show you exactly why the IPCC "science" is dubious get their videos and channels deleted.

[@jamesshort5682]

Thanks for a very intriguing perspective. I live in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Here are two stories of our experience as we try to buy a BEV/HEV/PHEV. We ordered a Tuscon HEV in January 2022 and we were told it would take six months to get one. We checked in monthly (the dealer NEVER contacted us) and kept getting told that "production should begin soon". This past week, we got fed up with waiting and bought a 2023 Tiguan SEL. We phoned the Hyundai dealer to cancel the order. 5 minutes later the sales manager phones and says "You'll never believe this but we just received your car last night!". You're right - we don't believe it. Before we bought the Tiguan we went by the Toyota dealer. They had 4 2021 RAV4 Prime's in stock. The average price was $CDN70,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@wiegraf9009]

Holy hell that's a lot for a little shitbox SUV...

[@gs98999]

But when a new one is 4-6 year wait that’s what 1 year old ones are worth to some people. No way around supply vs demand forces. The question is why is there so little supply and how to fix it.

[@redcatxb125]

Trust me you dodged a bullet not buying the Hyundai. They are bottom tier vehicles. Even that VW you picked up will probably be more reliable

[@dsend_]

@@redcatxb125 Hyundai has become fairly good this past decade. I dunno about their HEV/PHV lineup but their combustion cars are super popular in the middle east and east asia. In my opinion I would rate them just above chinese cars and right below the japs

[@bobberry1447]

As long as the dealer feels they have banked sales with deposits from patient customers they are going to sell your car to new customers for much more than you paid in January. Unethical dealer. You should name this dealer why are you protecting them now?

[@lawinsmalltimore]

Mark you've completely nailed it. As a sales rep, I do far too many miles to lease anything, but here in late 2022 it’s hard to justify a new car purchase. I am in Baltimore where dealers are still slapping on $1-3k markups over sticker and interest rates add even more cost to that dealer markup. I am used to stalking inventory, zeroing on the car that’s been sitting, then making a deal for thousands under MSRP plus great financing. Not happening right now, my shopping model is dead in the water. My 2012 E350 Bluetec just crossed the 125k mark and for the first time since it came into our lives cost me some real money this year. $3k for brakes and $3k for an oil cooler with another $1500 for chain tensioners coming soon. Ordinarily I’d be thinking hard about a trade or a sale, but this year those repairs seem more sensible. What’s $3k for a new cooler when the dealer wants that on top of sticker just to have a conversation about a new car? And thanks to the federales, MBUSA just paid $13k for a new emissions system, stem to stern. So as much as I love new cars and new car shopping, I’m settling in for a 200k experience on my 10-year old Teutonic diesel. The post script here is that I have more or less given up on my enthusiast side. I haven't been to a track day since VW came for my Golf TDI, I can't afford a toy car, and I can't justify buying a new car that's a better all-rounder for work and fun. So I'm just going to embrace this Benz for what it is, a relaxed highway cruiser, and just put up with the maintenance. It's screwed together pretty well and has no rust. The engine and transmission are known to be robust. It isn't going to be a trouble-free Toyota but thanks to all the factors you've rattled off here, it's my whip for at least another 50k if not more.

[@bassandtrebleclef]

3k on brakes for a 2012 e class? Fcp sells oem rotors for $100/each and pad sets for about $200 for all 4 corners. Where's 3k coming from??

[@JeepdudeFL]

German cars are a terrible idea for a sales rep, I'd buy used Camry's and trade up every 18-24 months.

[@joe718gt4]

I was stepping away from the auto enthusiast hobby well before the pandemic... thought my Camaro SS 1LE was going to be my last performance car purchase. Just happened to be fortunate enough my investments blew up like mad in 2020 but it's hard for me to recommend cars as a hobby just due to the finances themselves

[@aprtur]

@@JeepdudeFL this, or possibly a Lexus ES if you want a little more luxury with similar running costs.

[@aprtur]

@lawinsmalltimore - curious what you're looking at for your enthusiast car, and what you consider an affordable budget for one. If you strictly want something fun for cheap....well, it's hard to turn away a Miata unless you don't fit in one. As for your Bluetec - fantastic highway cruiser, but if you did want to go Toyota/Lexus, there are some dealers in the area willing to play on a Lexus. Go in open to the idea of ordering and waiting for your car, not buying what's on the lot, and you can probably score MSRP.

[@peteyg83]

I work in the industry so I see the dealership experience everyday. With that said, my gut is that people just don't give a crap about their finances. I can't tell you how many times I hear about payments in the 700--900 monthly range and it boggles my mind. To me, a lot of this consumerism has to do with the hype train/keeping up with the Jones's. Gotta have that new toy no matter what the cost. What will people think of me otherwise. Sad really. It will implode.

[@braden9536]

Everything goes up over time, it’s just been accelerated lately. 10% of new auto loans are now over $1,000/mo. As things get more expensive (cars, interest rates), the payment obviously goes up too. Hopefully people taking on those burdens have gotten income increases to match.

[@peteyg83]

@@braden9536 sure new car values always go up as cost increase but a lot of these people don’t have to buy new cars. Used is just fine and makes more financial sense.

[@homebrew1709]

“Buy now, pay later”…the American dream, right? I’d bet that a lot of those folks you speak of are routinely making minimum payments on their credit cards while the interest piles up. Or they spend a grand per month on a car and then complain about not being able to afford gas, groceries etc. Personal finance in this country is a generally a mess. And the lenders that provide individuals - who are likely overextending themselves- credit for cars, houses, furniture, credit cards, etc. continue to rationalize lending more and more money. Inflation isn’t going anywhere until people start to lose access to capital - specifically debt/loans.

[@arifisik]

Adding to your Canada comment, dealers sell new cars to their sister stores when brand new and then list the "used" car over MSRP.

[@keepyourbilsteins]

This vid earned you a like and sub from a 31 year car industry veteran. I've always been on the service side, 4 years in new cars, the rest of the time working for indies, operating my own garage, or until the pandemic, teaching. Now relaxed into a sm/gm position with a top tier Porsche outfit. New cars and new car prices are absolutely bananas. I've only bought 1 new car my entire life: an oddly spec'd out Caravan for the ex that sat for 11 months on the lot. Got for $4K under invoice. I will always own several nice 10+ y/o cars and trucks from now going forward. The age of my fleet grows older by the year. I sell one of my well maintained rides only after I've secured its replacement. Lower miles, higher spec trim, older or newer, only if it's an upgrade. There's a reason the roads are crawling with new Kias, Hyundais, and garbage tier base model GMs when it comes to new product. It's all the majority can afford.

[@Poisonpotatosack]

As someone who previously worked at a dealership and currently works with auto parts, you have said everything I've been thinking for the past year

[@landvehicle]

As a young car enthusiast im genuinely scared for the future. Im at least happy to know that there are people aware that this is a problem and were not just turning a blind eye.

[@barrybarry8564]

Same here, the thing is, the housing market is insane too and so is all cost of living in general. No way young people are going to be able to keep up with enthusiast vehicles and I don't think it'll kill 'performance' vehicles, I think we will end up seeing everyone end up just saying 'fk it' and going for the cheapest, decent cars available.

[@acktle8582]

Take a peak into the motorcycle community. Cheap as chips but less practical. It could be good alternative if ur open to it.

[@ronaldmcdonald9322]

get a motorcycle, you will love it

[@GrumpyIan]

@@acktle8582 yup, got my motorcycle license this year, currently working on my dad's second ever bike as my first then going from there. He lets me drive his Spyder and it is a blast.

[@bentullett6068]

Look more at the classic car side of things anything produced before touchscreen infotainment systems and sensors are less complicated to repair.

[@jonnie824]

Yep, 100% agree with this. The car market is completely trashed right now. I’m never buying a new car again. As an enthusiast I’m looking more into the used market to find something that still has emotion when driven. And yes, I’m watching a ton of your old videos for recommendations 😂

[@chrisginoc]

What are you looking into it? Same here. I got my eye on something a couple years and I've been going back to their old videos

[@NorCalTRACON]

As someone who works service parts at a dealership, the shifting has already started and it's very noticeable. From OE we are starting seeing more and more cases where parts are just straight out discontinued or backordered forever on cars that are barely 10 years old. And it's not every time that you can find an aftermarket solutions for that. Also, the way techs approach problems has changed rather significantly. Some times they actually have no other ways than shooting new parts at cars and hopefully it fixes the issue, if not then load up the next part in line and hope for the best. Some of the systems on nowadays car are simply not serviceable by design. I have had a tech repairing a output shaft seal leak, that ends up not serviceable and only can be fixed by replacing the entire diff carrier. Or a 9-year-old car can not find oem strut due to discontinued, and aftermarket has no options either. Electrical systems are even worse. Those magic blep-bloop boxes are not designed to be repaired and techs have to replace them. I often ask them what do they think when our EV start rolling in next year, and they are like "well, parts canon I guess".

[@GrumpyIan]

And this is why we need legislation that forces companies to keep repair/ maintenance easy, and cars drivable without all the fancy crap.

[@wiegraf9009]

It's beyond criminal that the industry has managed to become MORE wasteful and even more short termist. My step father ran an ancient VW bus well into the 2010s and he bought it back in the 70s used! Electric cars should be SIMPLER and EASIER to service because they are less mechanically complex and don't need super complex fuel management algorithms to get the most out of their batteries. Somehow the manufacturers are turning them into disposable pieces of crap that have a thousand layers of DRM bullshit on top.

[@jean-francoiselie]

Well electric battery/motor are less complicated than combustion engine. But when your had a billion of electronic features to the car plus huge tablet screen and add 10 years of age, snow, ice, salt, rust to the mix, well electric/electronic get defective. When you read a car user manual these days and see the number of features it have, you are saying yourselves that you don't want that car between 10 to 15yr of age. We have bought a Nissan Leaf used 3 yr ago, and beside windshield washer, we didn't spend a dime on it. But, the battery is kind of a dead sentence and that is a problem that will also need to be fixed in this industry. Ppl can't pay thousands for a battery on a car that no longer worth much.

[@testtube173]

This has happened to me. I have a 2016 gmc canyon and it’s been in the shop for nearly 3 months because the power steering failed and they can’t find a replacement. They have tried different parts and it doesn’t work properly so they try another. No solution in sight but i still have to make payments on it.

[@bedlambikes]

In my lifetime I purchased 16 brand new cars from the Herb Chambers dealerships here in the Northeast. Since Covid, they (along with others) are raping consumers by charging over sticker. I told them I will never purchase another car from them as long as I live - nor will anyone in my entire family. They didn't care and claimed I will never find a new car anywhere for under sticker. I've since purchased two new vehicles from other dealers in the region who did not charge over sticker. I will never go back. Times are tough for everyone, and I hope ALL of these dealers get what they deserve. I literally lose respect for anyone paying over sticker for any vehicle. If you do so, YOU are part of the problem. Front and center!

[@critterdude311]

If you need a new vehicle (old one dies / accident / whatever) and no dealerships in your area stay at MSRP, how exactly do you avoid it? I'm genuinely curious.

[@rmoore07]

@@critterdude311 Typically it will require legwork and patience. Call dealers in an ever expanding radius from where you live. Call them all over your state if you need. Talk to family, friends, co-workers, etc. whom recently purchased a new vehicle at MSRP. This is can be a good foot-in-the-door if they can refer your business to a good dealer. Dealers sticking to MSRP will tend to have a waitlist. You'll need to get on the list and wait. Some will require a deposit as well. Some manufactures are not allowing dealers to place customer orders, so you might not be able to be too picky on color, options, etc. unless you're willing to keep waiting for the right one to come in. With others which are allowing it (I know of GM and Stellantis for example), you'll have the dealer place your order and then you wait. If a dealer says you're way down the list on a waitlist, don't get discouraged. You can actually move through the list pretty fast. Many people on the list won't end up buying for a variety of reasons. If you can, get on a list with multiple dealers, especially ones not requiring a deposit.

[@bedlambikes]

@@critterdude311 I will travel 4-5 hours away no problem to purchase a vehicle for the right price. I live in Massachusetts and just purchased a vehicle outside of New York City in August. 8 hours of driving is worth saving $5000+ no question!

[@will_mcfarland]

Herb Chambers doesn’t care that you no longer buy there. 25 fools are in line behind you willing to pay over MSRP.

[@pavelslama5543]

As a guy that studies automotive engineering, I can tell you one thing: everyone knows that car industry is dying. And its not just dying, its getting murdered by incompetent politicians and incompetent CEOs. Everyone knows it, teachers talk about it, and Im just wondering if the industry in which Im getting my degree is even gonna be here once I get my degree.

[@urbanizeddreams]

Honestly....my relationships with dealerships at this point is, I don't ever want to walk into one again. The markup is killing the industry for me. Like the new BRZ is selling at dealers here in Canada for $43,000CDN+ when it's supposed to be starting at $30,000CDN. That's ridiculous...I bought my STI brand new in 2018 for $39,500CDN. I owned a 2015 Scion FRS which I bought new for $25,000CDN. $43,000CDN for a BRZ? Get out of here. I hope people stop being so desperate and not support these dealers with this nonsense.

[@billystpaul8907]

People need to hear more video's like this. Thanks Mark for not being scared to say what is really going on with the auto industry. And, don't forget the Fed's messing with everything else as well. And, EV'S are not the magical pill everyone thinks they are. Pretty soon, only the top incomes will be able to afford a new car. A new pickup truck should not be 50,000 and up..

[@earlmacmullin4688]

Mark, you've hit the nail on the head, of the nail in the coffin. I have been characterized as car "obsessed" since I was 4 years old. I would pour over magazines & online articles, always excited to see what new cars and engines were coming out. I have been very fortunate during my twenties to be able to have lots of fun with cars, and to own some cars I never thought I would be able to own when I was teenager. Now, at 29, I am less & less excited every year by anything new. I have a new vehicle for work, but I doubt I will be purchasing another "new" car going forward for personal use. It will be as you described; an enthusiast who has given up on anything new, buys an older car that suits their particular type of "fun", sits on it, and keeps it running into the future. Between the price of new cars, the dealer mark-ups, scarcity of selection, over-complication of the products, lack of driving connection and horrible dealer experience (with most brands, and I say that as someone who worked in automotive for 10 years), there is NOTHING about new vehicle products that is making me want to spend my hard-earned income on anything new.

[@danrossi8753]

That should be the title of this video. “nail on the head of the nail in the coffin.”

[@aprtur]

We're of a similar age, with a similar history of car obsession, so I'll just mention this...the current market has me seriously considering a Lotus/Caterham. They seem stable, fully enthusiast focused, and easy to work on...the driving aspect speaks for itself. Maybe that's our "out" in all of this.

[@elmanuel472]

Same here. Strong feeling that the best cars already have been built. The other SG video title "Driving a spreadsheet" nails it in my point of view. Started considering Lotus / Caterham too, but man I wish there would be more exciting dailys to drive year around ... Cheers from Germany

[@Lazuriteplays]

To this thread, we might as just cycle all the older cool cars amongst ourselves. Evos, STIs, and Mustangs, maybe even dorito powered cars. I don't want to die without experiencing all of them!

[@fortheloveofnoise]

@@elmanuel472 I can tell you some but I don't want the prices to go upm

[@carlosfernandez1007]

The current state of the automotive industry is just unsustainable long term. We were in the market for a Toyota Highlander, and it’s just impossible to find dealerships who are not marking up their vehicles, gouging with dealer installed options etc. In the end, we bought a 2010 Lexus GX 460, with 150k miles for $13k, as the car payment on the highlander was approaching what we pay on our mortgage.

[@PatMagee86]

I get more love from people under 20 years old for my 80's BMW than ever before. Anytime that I've been able to ask them about it, they like the engagement of the driving and fixing old cars.(normally an older family member taught them how to work on cars) One of these conversations was in front of one of my customer's new R1T. Given the opportunity, I asked this 13 year old kid about the Rivian. He looked at it, and then straight faced said, "It's cool, but isn't that, like $100k? I can't afford that, so why should I care?" He then immediately switched the conversation back to the E30... The Rivian isn't the flashiest thing, so it might not be the best litmus test, but I found that conversation a bit enlightening.

[@varmastiko2908]

Old cars are great but we are getting priced out of them as well - at least in Europe. Those normal everyday '80s cars have appreciated to ten times their lowest average value. I'm 41 years old and I can't afford the cars of my youth anymore.

[@PatMagee86]

They're up and down in the US. The wouldn't own one if not for the fact I can buy one that's in okay shape and then fix it up. Pristine examples of Redwood cars are quite expensive now. They make up for it though when you need to perform maintenance. Pads and rotors, all the way around is cheaper than one modern M3 rotor.

[@wolfshanze5980]

Tbh, I never had a car break more often, more predictably and more catastrophically than my 1980s BMTrouble-U. Never again will I buy that brand again!

[@gianni_schicchi]

@@wolfshanze5980 good, leave them for those of us that know how to care for and operate them.

[@Lazuriteplays]

As a young car guy, I'm the same as that 13 year old. People ask me "Car guy: what do you think about Ferraris?" I don't give a flying fuck about rich boy toys, they're about as relevant to me as buying a yacht in Kansas.

[@legatus9081]

I live in Italy and can't even imagine what's it like buying a car there. Instead of markup here the dealership are supposed to discount the MSRP. I went to a Hyundai dealership last week to look at their N products and the salesperson was very apologetic trying to explain to me why I have to buy the car at MSRP and why Hyundai doesn't let them offer discount on their performance brand

[@raupenimmersatt6906]

Thank the EU for customer rights :-)

[@floodo1]

Greed is a god in USA

[@Pippy1]

Dont buy a hyundai homie

[@bobbybooshay5854]

@@Pippy1 😅😅

[@DragomirBozhkov]

That's how it used to be. Before the pandemic I've never seen a car sold at MSRP, let alone above it, unless it's something exotic. But there's also the fact that most Americans can't survive without a car - you can't bike 10 to 40 miles a day to go to work, take your child to school, do grocery shopping, etc. Public transport where you have it is a dumpster fire. So chances are that even if you live in a big city, you have to drive.

[@S2kTi]

I agree with all of this as a 4 year car salesman. My store doesn't charge any accessories OR markups on anything and customers love it. It's the way it should be regardless of how rare or in demand it may be.

[@eggsandwich2598]

Ideally stores like yours will end up beating out stores that don’t offer what you do and the market will correct accordingly

[@S2kTi]

@@eggsandwich2598 we get a large majority of the market share in our state for our brand, so yeah, it doesn't go unnoticed. Everyone went for the quick cash last 2 years, but we didn't and it's paying off.

[@scottanthony3426]

Great piece Mark. You covered all the bases in this perfect ($h3t) storm of the car industry. Not sure what can be done to pull out of this. The cars have become all about the "tech" and touchscreens too. 30 years ago, it was a competition to see who could come up with the best ergonomics. Easy to understand controls that fell readily to hand without distracting the driver. It is illegal to use your phone and drive, yet we've moved the phone screen to the cars video display. Too much time staring at screens to perform simple functions. Then to compensate the cars all have to come with lane keeping, blind spot monitoring, and automatic braking. I don't even know how Tesla controls are legal (given that you can't use your phone). Scrolling through a menu to adjust your HVAC or wipers? Completely stupid. Arguing that it makes the car "simpler" and "cheaper", but the cars are neither.

[@Ziegfried82]

The massive touchscreens in new cars are an abomination. Not only are they hideous they provide inferior controls just as you say. If you are going to have such a "futuristic" tech focused car at the very least have all the controls be done by voice where you can speak the commands. Of course I'd rather just have physical dials and buttons myself..why fix something that isn't broken?!

[@scottanthony3426]

@@Ziegfried82 I think too many engineers/designers have lost sight of the fact that just because something is technically feasible doesn't mean it is a good idea. Yeah, you can put wiper and HVAC controls in a menu on a touch screen, but if they aren't better than the simple stalks and knobs, why would you? Plus if your touchscreen goes out, you are (apparently) completely unable to do a whole bunch of basic tasks. There are some nice features on the touchscreens ("bird's eye" view seemed cool on a Tesla I rode in), but leave my basic controls simple. Or, as you stated, voice activated. I suppose drivers would have to learn a specific command sequence, and obviously you could not do certain things (lest your jokster passengers suggest setting cruise control to 85 mph).

[@wiegraf9009]

As someone with ADHD I consider full dash screens to be a major safety hazard and won't drive a car with one.

[@nathanfranck5822]

I hate touchscreens but want an electric future. My dream car would have all physical buttons and knobs in a full electric car.

[@christopheradams7547]

What a great video. My wife and I recently was thinking about purchasing a new 4Runner. So we went to one of our local dealers. I knew they'd be expensive, but wasn't ready for how expensive. I am an older dude, good job, and comfortable in our finances. But I just can't bring myself to spend $50K++ on a vehicle. It is insane. And you are right, everyone wants the latest bells and whistles. But it just isn't worth it. I am also a car-guy, and my two sons are car-guys too. And we are always talking about how the industry is leaving us being. No more truly manufactured driving cars.

[@j.3854]

I hear ya brother. The TRD Off Road in the cool lime green was 48 grand?! whaatT?!

[@markmurphy9842]

On my 2nd trd off road 4runner .I don't drive many miles. By far the best all around vehicle for today's bad roads.

[@christopheradams7547]

@@markmurphy9842 I have been a Toyota man since 1991. Bought my first 4Runner and loved it, so I bought another one 10 years later. Loved it too. I now have a 2006 Tacoma. It has a little over 112,000 miles and I just replaced the alternator. It is bullet proof. I'm a baby-boomer and make good money. But I just can't bring myself to spend $50+K on a new one. These dealers are going to price them selves right out of the market. As they sell less of them, they'll have to raise the prices. Crazy!

[@NicholasSlabaugh]

The GR Corolla might be the last straw for me. I was "first" on the list at two dealerships and got bumped for straight cash. Right now I can't get any of the cars I want without paying a massive markup. It's killing my enthusiasm.

[@janeblogs324]

I also hate capitalism when I'm buying

[@infidel900rr]

@@janeblogs324 You should go research cars built by socialist nations than come back and delete your comment.

[@j.3854]

Same brother. I really want, in order: 1) FL5 R 2) Circuit GR Corolla 3) A91 Supra 4) Mach 1 6MT Likely buying the Supra due to surprisingly being able to buy at MSRP.

[@mikebergman1817]

@@infidel900rr Pretty sure she said that with sarcasm.

[@Thinginator]

@@infidel900rrJoke’s on you, I like cars built by socialist nations. I’ve driven a Lada before, it was fun. A bit crude but rugged, dead simple, and dirt cheap to keep running. They’re charming in their simplicity and focus on utility. There’s a lot wrong with socialism, but the cars it built had their advantages.

[@braden9536]

I’m under the impression any successful dealership is kept afloat by their service department. They obviously need sales too (customer acquisition and brand accreditation), but I don’t think some of these dealers were hit as hard by the car shortage as they made out to be. They had to cut some staff, but that’s just the nature of doing business… if sales are down, you don’t need as many salesmen - not exactly a highly qualified position either, and most salesmen are more ignorant than a buyer who spends a single day researching a car, so I don’t feel bad for them. I was aware of everything you mentioned that is potentially spelling disaster for the industry (prices, inflation, interest rates, markups, education costs burdens for younger buyers) but hadn’t really thought about the culminated effect… it does seem like a collapse is possible, and if it somehow stays afloat, many more Americans are going to find themselves car-poor.

[@benjaminduran2803]

What you've called out is something that's been giving me trepidation with EV cars. With EVs essentially being laptops on wheels, it scares the hell out of me to think about the possibility of buying an expensive EV and it being fully obsoleted within a few years. Internal combustion cars experience this to a lesser degree with their infotainment and safety systems, but an engine, at the end of the day, is still an engine, functioning the same way it has for a century. When I buy a laptop, though, it turns into a slow, plastic brick after 3 years when software has been updated and no longer runs on aging hardware. I couldn't imagine buying something like a Taycan S for $200K+, only for its battery tech and charging mechanism to be outdated within a year or two. Cars are quickly approaching the same level of disposability as cell phones.

[@57precision]

Now is certainly not the time to buy any EV. The tech is moving so fast you are all but guaranteeing that it become obsolete in 5 years or less. Maybe in 10 years the rate of progress with EVs will slow down sufficiently that it will make sense.

[@xUltimatexInstinctx]

As a 24yo just getting into cars and wanting to buy my first new one after driving a old civic for years this couldn't come at a worse time :(

[@Assenbiled78]

Miata!

[@Rascofresco11]

The part that hurts the most is knowing that 96% of it is going to the dealer principle/owner As a Salesperson, I can say it's fun to ride the wave and all with the mark-ups, but we all collectively know it's not gonna last forever. I think the majority just feels it's their turn to reap the rewards of a broken market like all the other sectors (housing, stocks, etc).

[@gettcouped]

The difference between the haves and the have nots is increasing astronomically. I think this isn’t only a car issue but a general issue. When you have companies pressuring the income of your average worker and executive salaries increasing at an alarming rate it will cause all these issues. The affordable items will go away and it will be the mega rich and the poor with not many people in the middle.

[@shoersa]

Like South America.

[@jooot_6850]

Mfw human productivity has nearly tripled since WW2 yet wages flatlined in the late 70s

[@Isaachsargent]

i was a former automotive tech for hyundai and the dealers don't care about you. all they want is money and it sickens me to see this be normal. i really wish that they would take it more seriously because the number of techs are dropping. i remember in high school there was a shortage of techs by 500k. now its 640k. i personally know of like 8 techs leaving due to how toxic it has been. the turn over rate is unreal. im moving on to an other charter - career. i lost everything through this experience.

[@eduardoizquierdo309]

Who would have known that businesses like money

[@RegCoulter]

Mark - Fantastic and brutally honest video. I live in Saskatchewan and am a 68 yr old retired and now on a fixed income. I will eventually need to replace my 2009 Honda Civic and have been taking a look at local dealerships and their offerings. With pricing now averaging over $35,000 CDN before taxes, I wonder how I will be able to afford to purchase that replacement vehicle, when I need to. While all of the technology is nice, I need it to be done in a thoughtful manner and not accessible purely through a touchscreen. There is a reason they call that style of technology “Senior Killers” as the distraction required while driving to do something as straightforward as change a radio station or in particular, adjust the heating controls (We have 5 months of extreme winter here), mean that I am not able to concentrate on the road and driving, and avoiding those people still too wrapped up in their phones, to be safe. Mark, it is more the pricing models now in play. Honda here is pricing their new models right out of the ballpark, especially when you compare them to the competition. The CRV is a good example where the top models are priced s much higher than a corresponding Toyota RAV4r for example, and the Honda not having a lot of the standard features of the competition. You do all of us a great service by brining excellent commentary to the masses. Thank you.

[@cbatiau2528]

The safety issues coming out of touch screens are not just problems for seniors; they are problems for everybody, young and old. Some automakers (like Kia and Hyundai, especially, in the BEV arena, but also automakers like Toyota and Honda in the ICEV arena) are sticking to physical buttons and dials. What's needed is better government regulation that would ban the ability of a touch screen to be usable when a car is in motion, which would force automakers to bring back (or keep) physical buttons and dials for things that the driver needs to access while driving (climate controls, audio controls, drive mode, etc.).

[@GoodMenstruationAttitude]

In case it helps, Mazdas are touchscreen-free. Nice simple jog wheel controls for everything, dedicated HVAC buttons.

[@hyrenaj2888]

You're definitely right that it feels like the car market is reaching an inflection point, and I think the car market and car culture as we know is already over. Part of the cause is this general wealth inequality we have in society, as well as the other factors you've mentioned. A big factor, like you've hinted at with young people, is that maybe the politicians and younger generation actually want this to happen, if you see the anti-car communities popping up on social media. It's very much an existential problem that the car makers are left to fend for themselves... the public sure seems apathetic save for a very small number of car enthusiasts.

[@readtherealanthonyfaucibyr6444]

Why is there an anti car community? From environmental anti-CO2 "science" that has a money trail. When the government forcefully kills an industry with "environmental goals" that comes from science that has a money trail, wealth inequality isn't exactly the culprit. Unless you're referring to rich and powerful people behind the scenes who own governments, scientists, and independent researchers, and force the auto industry to die to further their own nefarious power hungry goals...then yes, the industry is killed by regulation as a result of "wealth inequality".

[@benpenagonzales6014]

There are now more horses than a hundred years ago. But generally they are the preserve of the rich. A possible insight to where the hobby car market will go.

[@SoulEraser000]

Cars are already dead. Sad to say. Hurts to say. My latest passion in life and I won't ever even get to indulge in the feeling of getting to buy my dream car from the dealership. There will be no cool cars left by the time I'm well off enough to buy it. Only electric cars if we're lucky. What's most likely to happen is all of us are going to be forced into public transit.

[@SoulEraser000]

@@benpenagonzales6014 Interesting insight, probably right. It already exists, basically. There's tons of super or hyper cars out there that I've never ever ever seen. Yet they keep coming out with new models... Off road ones.... Special editions. And people scoop them up. If you want to get out of extremes, there's already 100k+ european cars on the road every day when I go out to drive.. Totally out of the realm of your average person driving a 20 year old econobox that's falling apart.

[@mitchwest6453]

I'm in the 20-30 year old age category, and out of all my friends and myself, I only know one who has bought a brand new vehicle (though I'm sure his parents helped him foot the bill). My newest vehicle has been a 2005. One friend of mine works for SpaceX and daily drives a mid 90s Civic. I was in the market for an off road vehicle and considered a new truck, but the cost was just mind blowing compared to the cost of an older Jeep that's about just as capable. So, I keep finding myself back to the used car market over and over again when looking for a car. The market will not sustain itself at this pace.

[@peekaboo1575]

Sooner or later politicians will make pre-2010 cars illegal because 'muh environment' or whatever excuse they go with. 'You'll own nothing and be happy' will be pushed hard on the little people and pricing everything sky high is one of the ways to get us there.

[@TimPaddy]

If you want an older person's opinion, I think cars were at their peak around 2005. I wish they still made them like that.

[@dabradguy]

@@TimPaddy In hindsight I think you are right, with the exception of safety. They were lighter, simpler, produced good power, reliable, and comfortable. I forget where I read it, but it was the sweet spot between light weight and refined technology (think fuel injection, not touch screen).

[@zoidberg444]

You know what probably should be done to help the country through the next great depression. Use the defence production act and bully Toyota and GM into producing a bunch of stripped down bog standard cars so people can get from A - B affordably. Have Toyota provide the drive train and electronics and GM make the chassis, body panels and fit them out on the assembly line - something simple - 3 and 4 cylinder fuel injected petrol engine twinned with a 5 speed. Rear drums with axle beam suspension. Kind of like how NUUMI worked. The real work horses of the economy - those 90's and 00's Toyotas and Hondas are getting older and won't run forever. Something reliable and cheap needs to replace them so working class people and the poor can get to work.

[@peekaboo1575]

@@zoidberg444 The gov will never do that though, they'd rather have people using public transport.

[@chibisven]

You're exactly describing the tragedy of the Focus RS. The 2016 RS was just coming out when I bought my most recent daily driver and the RS would have been the perfect car for me. It was sporty and fun but practical and really scratched that itch for someone like me. And even though I was a 29 year old software engineer that owned a house, there was exactly 0% chance they were going to let me test drive that car. They barely let me look at it from a respectable distance. The thing is, no other market for that car really existed. It wasn't a speed and style icon like the corvette that they can sell to a 50 year old career man, it wasn't luxurious like a Cadillac CTS that they can sell to the luxury commuter, and it didn't have the flashy brand recognition of a BMW or Porsche. They basically built a WRX STi competitor but refused to sell it to the WRX market. Then after 3 model years they cancelled it due to low sales numbers. I never even got to drive one, but now I still own that same daily and I've got a sporty RWD I got on the used market for my fun driving.

[@57precision]

I owned an ST and it was great, I only imagine what the RS could have been. But Ford treated them like they were 918 Spyders, and when it came time to upgrade I bought a Chevy SS/Holden Commodore. Still have it.

[@motoyoku]

Great analysis/perspective. I share all of the same concerns. I bought one of the most reliable, longest-lasting vehicles I could get: a 4Runner. Because so many were built, and they remained relatively unchanged for so many years (the 5th gen has been produced since 2009!), I *hope* that I don’t need to worry about parts availability for a very long time. Servicing might become a different story. For now, what worries me most about the future is being taxed out of my “gross polluting” truck before anything else. However, for most other common economy vehicles, as manufacturers (hastily) transition their dollars to hybrids and EVs, what is the future of support for legacy vehicles? I imagine that’s where the aftermarket has potential to fill, but quality is totally inconsistent and as independent shops close with no one to keep the lights on, people will be discouraged from keeping older vehicles on the road. And now we’ve arrived at the slippery slope where cars turn into disposable appliances - and car manufacturers and their dealers are greedily awaiting us, ready to push us all into a giant, bottomless pit of debt. As consumers, we’ve never been at stake lose more than we ever have. We have idiot politicians and agency heads with absolutely no technical knowledge making up insane industry requirements and regulations because “it sounds good” using the planet as the scapegoat and mandating for these changes in unsustainable timeframes. This leads to manufacturers dumping enormous costs into rushed, overly-complicated products that we get stuck paying second mortgages for. At the same time, we’re at historic lows for people entering into vocational fields, combined with cars requiring specialized equipment, and manufacturers limiting access to service procedures and tools, or charging insane amounts for them. Support for older vehicles will eventually evaporate and “choice” will become a conceptual relic of the past. We won’t have the vehicle and brand variety we enjoy today and will be restricted to bringing our appliances back to the manufacturer directly or a pre-determined network of service centers. I shudder as we find ourselves pushed into software-laden EVs. Between concerns related to data privacy, potential for hacking, ownership rights, subscription bullshit, and right to repair, what happens when a manufacturer decides to cut off updates/support in 10 or 15 years? We throw away our rented mobile tracking appliance and sell our soul for a new one. Some of these issues aren’t even unique to the car world either, it’s bleeding into the 2 wheel one too - just watch Fortnine’s video on the Ducati Desert X. I could ramble on forever, but the point is that the future of personal transportation is bleak (if you’re not rich).

[@cpufreak101]

Well, I do think a good note to make on parts availability is that there are madlads out there that still daily drive Ford Model A's as just about everything is still made for them, but I do also feel it's important to note those vehicles are so simple that it's not exactly hard to reproduce a part for them. I'm sure the same can be said for many vehicles up to the modern day so long as they have enough demand to keep them going (like 80's and 90's pickups for example). I'm sure your 4Runner will be just fine as they may be the new vehicle that's all over economically depressed areas of the world in 20 years like older Toyotas are today, but once a PHEV version hits, it's days will be numbered.

[@ianhall6614]

You are absolutely correct when you said people are just going to buy older used cars and sit on them. I don’t see myself ever buying a new car, the are too cost prohibitive and deny me the ability to work on my own vehicle. Yeah, sure, my 20+ year old truck isn’t “exhilarating” to drive but I truly do love driving it, as weird as that sounds to some people. I much rather front the cost of driving and working on an older vehicle than repeatedly going into significant debt every 10 or so years for a new one. This was a really thought provoking video, can’t wait for more.

[@alecwood4491]

As a 24 year old that works in the Architecture, I see it with houses. I'm designing houses for people that I will never be able to afford. A million dollar house used to be a huge mansion, now it's an apartment in a 30 story building. Same with cars, I drive Hondas - it's just what I enjoy. But trying to grab a more enthusiast focused product like an S2000 or a Type R is pretty well impossible for my current situation, I don't even have student debt anymore. I love cars, I just hope I get to enjoy some more of them before it's too late.

[@c10seth]

Thank you for sitting down to share this. I've been a car/truck enthusiast my entire life. In recent years, I've turned to motorcycles for my high-performace outlet because cars are so expensive. Racing a $7k supermoto is much more achievable on a reasonable budget over having fun-driving car to take to the track or even having a purpose built race car.

[@jonp1115]

I am an engineer now making between 70 - 80k. After graduation, I thought I would buy a Shelby gt 350 but honestly, im not willing to pay 60k for a car . I get it that it is a "Shelby" but most cars today are so boring. I fixed my older car. Bought a sports bike and a truck. The truck was only a 1000 and sunk a 1000 into it for repairs. 88 dodge ram. best decision ever man. The sense of freedom. I was dying at my desk job lol. Cars today are simply over priced. I am angry about it because it is a form of art for me. I wanted to go automotive but I refuse to be forced to work on a boring crossover with an eco engine. I do not care about " putting in time " to work on the only exciting thing in an entire line up, which i will not be able to afford anyways. I know plenty of competent engineers avoiding automotive world for the same reason. zero passion. Money allows you to buy engineers but it can not buy passion. Engineers with Passion build amazing things. I just hope the public will open their eyes and start refusing to pay for this bull****.

[@alnikolli514]

My family owns 3 Toyotas. My dad wanted to buy a new suv so we went to our local Toyota dealer last month to look at a rav4. They were asking for $8k over MSRP and wouldn’t budge. Went to VW and got a Tiguan under msrp and got treated extremely well and will probably purchase more VWs in the future. Alienating customers is very real.

[@jondiaz3475]

Right on. We've been shopping for cheap breadbox on wheels, and the Kia dealership in Tucson required purchase of an $1800 service/maintenance plan and $500 to tint the two front windows on a new Soul. At that price, I'll just go buy a VW Taos, after 12 excellent years of dealing with that brand.

[@medraut6599]

Toyota dealerships are arrogant SOBs because they know full well how damn well built the cars are and how in demand they are in.

[@wylierudhman1603]

Got a 22 VW GTI at MSRP. Love the car.

[@leviathan5207]

Just stay away from VW service. They wanted to do spark plugs on my diesel... SPARK PLUGS ON A DIESEL!!!!!! After which I started going to Nico around the corner, who actually knows what he is doing.

[@bb5242]

My local VW lot still has zero inventory. It's a used car lot with a fancy facaded building.

[@Vpaid]

I watched a friend go through the process of finding and buying a RAV4 Prime and even as a spectator is was a soul-crushing, faith-eroding experience.

[@wolfshanze5980]

There's no such thing as "finding a Rav4 Prime". The correct terminology is "ordering a Rav4 Prime and waiting 6 months to a year for it to come in".

[@drunksquirrel2051]

No that's just rav4 hybrids. Primes don't even exist

[@tim3172]

@@wolfshanze5980 Toyota doesn't take orders from consumers; they rely entirely on the allocation model. So yes it is, indeed, *FINDING* a Rav4 Prime.

[@bradhaines3142]

i got a highlander hybrid, day after i went in and asked about it, they found it. i know its 5k more, but its also a lot bigger for an otherwise the same or better (not in mpg, i know) car that's just as legendary for reliability. and i needed a car asap so i had no choice but to buy it for the 62k i could get it for, im sad i had to get shafted to that degree, but it was that or buy another used car that isnt that much cheaper and already beaten to death

[@wolfshanze5980]

@@bradhaines3142 Highlander Hybrids are very popular... but you're comparing Apples 🍎 to Oranges 🍊 here. They're a significant size and cost upgrade over a Rav4 or Tucson. I'm sure my dealership is marking up my Tucson, but im still paying 20K less than a Highlander. Heck, I could probably get a Palisade Calligraphy for less than that Highlander.

[@nam.justin]

Maintaining a dealership is a great point. Was listening to Jonny Lieberman’s podcast and they talked about the complications of manufacturers forcing dealerships to update their showrooms and how costly it can be especially for the smaller businesses. The corporate loans are no joke.

[@fearhand12]

Link to the podcast episode?

[@zorkyporky]

your points basically sum up the thoughts I've been having lately. I'm a member of the new generation of car buyers. I'm a pretty new dealer tech and I'm finally trying to work towards a nice engaging car to drive. I just cannot afford anything without going into crazy debt and its only getting worse. not to mention the fear of the government just legislating the ICE to death in the coming years. Cars are my passion and it feels like I'm in a race against the clock that I just cant win.

[@JonathanBergman2Go]

I absolutely love cars and I have a good-paying job for a young 20-something + no loans. The cost to buy, maintain, fuel and insure a new enthusiast car seems like unobtanium to me. Sometimes I wish I wasn't into cars, because even if I got an old Miata right now, I'd have to cut back in other areas. To a lot of young people, cars simply *cannot* financially work with our lifestyles

[@9847tristan]

Look at an NA/NB Miata. Good fun at around 5-7k

[@bb5242]

GR Corolla, LOLOLOLOLOLOL. In the past, this would have been a slam dunk for you. Keep voting Democrat, I'm sure you will enjoy your prison life eating bugs. America has lost the plot completely.

[@JonathanBergman2Go]

@@bb5242 ?

[@fortheloveofnoise]

If you can find a no markup GR Corolla...go for that.

[@Black2005Lotus]

I think that (unfortunately) Mark hit the nail on the head here. I used to switch cars every few years and would get excited about the next experience, but now the 60-$70K can’t even buy a new pick-up. The industry is out of control on a one-way track. It’s sad because cars are my passion. PS- tell us about that S60 behind you ❤

[@humanminus84]

You just gave words to the thoughts and emotions of thousands of people.. Thank you for using this platform to deliver the message and may be some body from the high castle watching this... You never know

[@matt96ex]

Great video Mark! I left the auto industry in November 2021 after 14.5 years as a master technician. You briefly touched on the service side of the dealership but that is also a large, failing portion of the auto industry that needs a huge revamp. The bottom line is vehicles are cheaper in quality and more complex in technology which leads to more problems and repairs. All of this and flat rate technicians get the shit end of the stick with horrible warranty times for repairs.

[@SateenDuraLuxe]

I would love to see an extended video about this topic.

[@realcreamofwheat7728]

Amazingly well done. I couldn't of said it better. The car industry is changing, and not for the better. I have a pair of 10+ year old vehicles that I would love to change for new ones, but I don't see paying 60k+ each for a replacement vehicle worth it.

[@entertained...]

i used to be a huge sports fan, but i've become so disillusioned over the years to the point they are background noise; the same is happening with the car industry for me. while there are some new cars i like, the only ones i want to actually buy are old, because i can work on them fairly easily.

[@flocksbyknight]

Excellent monologue, Mark. Personally, I own a couple shabby vehicles that average over 200k on the odometer. They inevitably need work. I drive a different one for a while until I can fix it. That's becoming harder, but I can swallow that easier than a depreciating investment that I'll never feel like I own.

[@GIGABACHI]

HEY ! That's exactly what I'm doing at the moment ! They are not 100% and probably never will be BUT it's good to have a backup vehicle in case something happens with the other !

[@anishmahadeo5073]

Likewise, I'd rather my junky 200k+ e46 and 100k+ e87

[@ArtWong128]

Kirkland Signature logowear FTW! Agree, not a fan of the car buying experience. We used TrueCar (new) and CarMax (used) for the last four car purchases since I am not a fan of haggling. And yes, cars are way more expensive than in the past. I wanted to get a new stick, tried looking for an Si but the Honda guys wanted well over MSRP. Ended up with an Integra since they sold near MSRP, but of course I had to get the highest trim level. It would be great if the federal regulators allowed simpler cars again -- old school CRX HF would be awesome today! If we can buy motorcycles (airbag-free!), let's have super basic, lightweight, high MPG, fun cars again.

[@nathanyoung8284]

Thanks for the video, Goose. I'm 23 and set to graduate in a year here in Portland.. I was forced to live on my own and work my ass off to not be in a shitload of debt from school when I finish. I'm studying a field that, although pays more than average, will not turn me into a millionaire unless I have no life outside of work (IT). I have a 2005 Legacy GT 5-speed wagon. It's an awesome car. It has 238K miles on it now and tons of mods, a new engine a couple years ago, and parts are starting to become scarce from Subaru. I can no longer get trunk rubber lining in case mine starts to leak, for example. I love this car but I wouldn't mind having a new enthusiast car like a Civic Type R. Then I think about the cost of those things, with or without markups. My only hopes for affording a home and not endlessly paying crazy high rent are to make a decent amount of money and have next to no expenses. Driving a paid-off car is the only way to do this. When my dad was my age, he worked as a police officer in South San Francisco. He had a 1974 Dodge Charger that he bought new at 19. He bought his first home on his salary as a single cop at 23 in South San Fran. Today, his old home is 1.3 million dollars. To even fathom home ownership within the next decade seems outlandish to me, even if I have a steady job and no debt. I can't own that Type R because I don't want to rent forever, constantly throwing my money into a fire. I don't really know what the solution is. I'd like to think our government will see that problem we've created and will abolish Euclidian zoning so we can build more dense housing to not endlessly rent and to allow for more means of transportation outside of a car. Perhaps not the be-all, end-all solution, but the reality is that a car puts a halt on a lot of financial progress I'd like to be making at my age and I just can't put my money where my mouth is for these "cheap" new enthusiast cars.

[@robmcd]

I make great money and I’m still rocking my 2006 Outback 3.0R. Subarus with maintenance will do 1,000,000 miles. Subaru USA might suck but try finding parts online.

[@MrSilence99]

A lot of the reason for high housing costs is caused by some massive corporations that are in bed with the government such as BlackRock. They are buying up as many homes as they can above market value. Even Zillow was buying up homes. Another big reason for high cost is our overuse of debt. People don't blink an eye pulling a massive loan anymore.

[@nathanyoung8284]

@@MrSilence99 companies like BlackRock have almost zero presence in Portland, for whatever reason. That said, you're right, and the problem is huge everywhere in North America right now. Seems like it costs just as much to live here as any other moderately desirable place

[@nathanyoung8284]

@@robmcd unfortunately the part isn't made aftermarket or stashed in someone else's warehouse. Seems like Subaru opted to stop making most parts for the 2005-era Legacy and Outback when COVID hit.

[@harrisongregg3536]

Great video and take on the industry. It’s a mess right now and I really hope more brands can start selling direct-to-consumer. I can buy almost anything on the internet and would love to be able to pick out a car, pick the trim level, buy it on an automakers website and get it delivered (even delivery to a dealership would be fine). I just hate going to a dealer and spending all day haggling or playing the waiting game when as an enthusiast I know what I want and don’t want.

[@cayman9873]

Looks like I will be buying 10 k to 15 k very used cars and trying to keep them 6 to 8 years. I dont plan on ever buying a new car again or any used car from any sort of dealer again.

[@kent570253]

I was working as a tech for BMW when I retired from the automotive industry. Almost nobody that came at the dealership cared about their cars. Bald tires, shaking brakes, cracked windshield, burnt bulbs, check engine light On..... All they wanted was their stupid Bluetooth and parking sensor to work perfectly. Most people are dumb, this is why the auto industry succeed and survive. People are proud of overpaying, makes them feel rich. I'll tell you what. In 2019, me and my wife bought 2 brand new MK7 golf (last time I buy a new car), Manual, no options, basic wheels, no sunroof, nothing. The salesman was almost pissed, and trying to convince us that we wanted a car with more options. I now work for National Defense vehicle tech, as a civilian employee.

[@petergreco6010]

Hit each nail right on the head. I find myself pretty sad and depressed about this whole situation, especially considering I grew up loving cars and am now in my late 20's. Who knows what the next couple decades are going to look like...

[@discerningmind]

I'm sixty-six and I feel the same way. I always loved cars, but I always had trouble making decent money. At this point I long since succeeded and I'm in good financial shape now. I have to let you know that I'm not loving any of the new cars being offered. I like cars, not SUVs. There just isn't anything being built that I'd be excited to own. And I refuse to spend a fortune on anything generally considered a desirable car, out of a matter of principal. As your years pass, things change, and you'll feel differently about things. Focus on doing things that need to be done at your age, and that you won't be able to do when you're older. That goes for whatever decade of life that you're in. An example for you right now, might be camping in the Rockies instead of dreaming about a Corvette. There will be interesting and fun cars in the future, so long as there's competition between brands. One type of future car that I'm interested in, are cars that self-drive and the interior will be something like a living room and include a lavatory too. That would be very nice for an elderly person. You'll find something that will interest you when the time comes. But I wonder how many people missed Mark's advice of buying an old car and having that for your daily driver. If you think about it, buying a vintage car that is a popular make and model can be a good answer when funds aren't there for a new car with a warrantee. An example might be a vintage Mustang. Find one you can afford that's decent enough to drive and keep fixing it as needed. The reason is because anything you want for those cars (and others like it) have numerous vendors that sell every part for it. And the parts are reasonable compared to modern cars. The parts and the labor to keep something like that on the road is less money than a new or newer car, and still offer you enthusiasm to drive and in owning.

[@petergreco6010]

@@discerningmind Great advice.

[@AarmOZ84]

My worst experiences in buying a car have always been at new car dealerships. In 2005, I wanted to get either a Honda S2000 or a Nissan 350Z. I had the same issues that Mark has had where I was being told, "Well, this car is for a special type of buyer," or, "This car is a limited edition so we have to adjust the price for market demands." I ended buying a 2004 Pontiac GTO with only 7,000 miles on it from CarMax and they threw in a stuffed goat free of charge (if you don't know that GTOs are known as goats, you do now). In 2021, I received a huge inheritance and wanted to buy a Toyota GR Supra. I was not prepared for how marked up the vehicle would be ($10,000 on average) and how I would be treated like garbage by these dealerships who pride themselves on having great customer satisfaction. I finally decided to get a new Miata instead and want threw torture of being upsold on so much stuff I didn't need and a financial officer that was pretty much a dick to me when I said, "I am sure these are all nice things, but I am not paying over $50,000 just to get a Miata." I got the car, but I refuse to take it to that dealership for maintenance. My best car dealership experience was from Hertz. I got pre-approved online for a loan, looked on their website and told them which cars I was interested in, they had the cars ready for me on a scheduled appointment, test drove them to figure out which one I wanted, and the loan officer only tried to upsell me on an extended warranty and that was it. I was in an out in an hour and still have the car I bought from them. So much better of an experience. Because of how I have been treated in the past, I refuse to buy Honda, Nissan, and Toyota despite being great cars. If I wanted to still get a GR Supra, I would probably order it through CarMax and gladly pay the transportation fee to have the one I want shipped to my local dealership. I am that done with car dealerships to put-up with them ever again. The worst part of all of this is that I guarantee you that car manufactures and dealerships blame the customers for all the problems.

[@CarsMeetsBikes]

carmax may be a little bit pricier than market but its not outrageous like some dealer groups and their service is pretty good. They did want to do a hard credit check when I asked to test drive a GT500 but that's kind of fair

[@dr._breens_beard]

Your story is what i suspect will happen en masse when generational wealth is transfered to the millenials such as myself. We have been treated like shit even with working hours and labor practices far more difficult than previous generations that again, sold us up on everything, payed us like shit, and then whined about how we didnt want to work for anything. Well when we come into money we will be far more likely to be "the millionaires next door" who spend very little and save quite a lot because its all weve known. I suspect at this point the new car industry will die. Or at least several manufacturers like chevy will collapse entirely

[@Lazuriteplays]

Oof, I got the "This is too good for you" look from a Mazda dealership for a used ND. I never looked back and bought a clean NB that was a "wife's track car"

[@MyMediaConsulting]

I always recommend CarMax to friends. I've bought four cars through them over the years. They were on whole a better experience than any other dealership. I had an issue with my remote bricking itself after a couple of years and my key wouldn't work. They found out the rod between the key mechanism and lock had come loose. They fixed it for free. The service manager said, "I've never used my key in three years. So, if mine was broken I wouldn't even know." He fixed it for free because there was a slight possibility that it was messed up when I bought the car. If I am buying used, they are the first place I look.

[@SC_LFC]

I have a 6speed 2004 bmw 330i with zhp package and it makes my soul smile every time I get behind the wheel. Miss those simpler days and connection to the car and the driving experience.

[@6mtzhp55]

Nice car. Though I sold my '04 ZHP 6 speed (look at my handle) because certain parts were becoming unavailable as it crested 200k miles and my trusted mechanic moved away, I still think it's the best overall car I ever owned - quick, comfortable, attractive, even relatively fuel efficient with that tall 6th gear (30mpg on the highway) and I could work on it myself to an extent. I had an E30 325is and E36 328is before it and it blew both of them away. Didn't dig the E9X, so I went to an '06 2006 and a (bought new) '18 Crosstrek, which split into two specialized cars what the ZHP did decently well as one car (wanted a convertible, ZHP was a coupe). Looking back, I should have just built a 3 car garage so I could work on it myself and kept it. Though the miles got high, I don't see any as stock, clean and well-maintained as mine was for sale anymore.

[@kennethgrutter9406]

Mark, thanks for putting all my thoughts into a concise, cohesive video. I'm retired, and in my 60's, and have always loved cars. The cars today are overcomplicated, loaded with unnecessary tech, and just ridiculously expensive. Part of the problem is the consumer, too. They demand all the latest tech, so they can impress thier friends, and neighbors. Then, in order for them to do that, some of them will sign on the dotted line, no matter what the cost. In my opinion, that's a big part of the problem too. The dealers are gouging any way they can, and some people are just following along. I wanted a "fun" car to drive on the weekends, but with the way the used car market is now, and insurance just went up 25% in my state, and slated to go up another 16% next year, I'm really having second thoughts. You are 100% on the mark, though, the industry is truly broken, and they are too blind to see that they are pricing themselves out of existence. I see the old classic cars of the 60's and 70's now, that I always wanted, as dinosaurs, and if the industry keeps going the way it is, no one will interested in them anymore either. I myself am just not interested in a car as a hobby anymore. Too expensive, and too much hassle, in so many ways. Oh, and the new cars?? What's to be excited about? They all look the same, or you can have your "flavor of the week" SUV in any size, or style you want. Sigh.

[@57precision]

And any exciting new car that comes out? Well you can't get one because they are "limited", like the ridiculous GR Corolla. I truly pine for the days when I could walk into a dealership and buy a sports car right off the lot. Doubt we will ever see those days again.

[@andylt01]

Yep, summed up perfectly. I'm 40, waited basically my entire adult life, patiently, to be in a position to buy a car that I actually want, and the prospect of shopping in this market, for the past two years, has absolutely killed the desire. Looking at whats happening on cars I want - golf R, S3, type R, GR Corolla - is maddening, be it supply chain issues or price gouging. I put an order for an Elantra N (not even a car I really dream about, but I could order one for msrp) 8 months ago ad still not heard back. So as you say buyers like me will now start looking at older, cheaper and simpler options.

[@henriquebrenzinger4406]

Waiting all that for an ordinary car is crazy, I could wait that if I were ordering something special like a Ferrari or Bentley, but never for a Honda, Hyundai, Toyota etc.

[@andreichernev1880]

Was in the same boat, ended up buying used manual gti

[@MRFUCKOFF202]

This is the sort of crap Rolex has been pulling for years. Absolutely insane to see the car equivalent of Casio doing it.

[@joesmith9216]

and you need to vaxxinated to buy your new a*ian shit box, you'll see.

[@janeblogs324]

You need to raise your standards. They can't be your dream cars if you're 40

[@thomaswysocki9151]

Thanks Mark. Good video. 3 points. The older I get, the more I realize I'm less unique in my thoughts and decisions. All the major brands are corporations expected to make money for their share holders year over year. Profits are up. Yet all I get from the automakers currently, in press releases, is playing the victim. Over a year ago, we decided to upgrade our vehicle. We went to the dealer, put down a non refundable deposit and were told 4 months. 4 months turned into 5. Into 6. Into 8. Into multiple conversations with customer relations. All ending with being told the truck we ordered is not being built, our non refund deposit being conveniently turned into a refundable one, and a pat on the head. Honda decided to not build the lower trim we ordered because they make more profit on the higher trims. This was a decision. We are never buying a Honda product again because of this decision, after owning 5 from them. Back to the first point. Keep up the great work.

[@medraut6599]

But they are facing a lot of troubles. There are troubles sourcing parts. Give the video a second watch, and Mark will go through how bad of a predicament automakers are currently in. The writing is on the wall and most automakers realize this. Hell before he died Sergio Marchionne was shouting about this from the rooftops. In a nutshell, automakers are making money right now, but they are facing an existential crisis within the next decade, and they don't have many moves that they can make. They can't sell directly to customers, so they're at the whims of dealers, and they can't go and make cheaper models because they need to meet government regulations.

[@ericletasse5129]

I won’t pretend to understand most of the car market, but in my line of work the Corp cried how they lost a billion dollars and let some departments go. Come to find they didn’t “lose” a billion dollars, more likely they failed to make a billion dollars.

[@OxiSG]

I was in the market for a GR86 and when I saw that the cheapest in the whole city of Houston, TX was 5K over MSRP. I went with a new Miata and got it under sticker. Which dealership do you think I’m gonna go back to in the future?

[@Assenbiled78]

You made the right choice.

[@YeszCore]

As an 18-25 year old with no money, my options are limited. It is becoming increasingly difficult to be fiscally responsible in a way that is impactful, because everything is so expensive. Before the used car market crashed, I took out a loan for a 12-year-old Honda Fit with 160,000 miles on it. I settled for it because the car I wanted, a Scion tC, wouldn’t sell for less than $13 grand in decent condition. I’m happy with my purchase, but looming over my head is the possibility that it’ll break down before my loan is repaid. In a more consumer-friendly market, I wouldn’t have to worry, because I could’ve gotten it for a more manageable monthly payment. Buying a new car is nowhere near within reach for me or anyone I know that’s my age. You’re totally right that the younger generation is being phased out of the market. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to buy a new car. How could I when the starting prices are as much as my salary? It would be a patently absurd financial decision. I am perfectly happy driving old Japanese cars until the industry collapses and regulations allow them to make cars that people can buy again.

[@savagegeese]

Luckily for you that Gen Fit (2010) lasts forever (rust aside). It really is a bad time for your gen of car buyer and it pisses me off to no end.

[@dre32pitt]

This is why I've started seeking out older cars that I've always liked and may have even owned in the past. Cars with driving feel, simpler designs, and not a bunch of tech BS.. it's amazing what $1000 worth of head-unit and backup camera upgrades can do to transform an older car.

[@bb5242]

Electric steering sucks. We're definitely hitting the endgame due to govt. regs.

[@dre32pitt]

@@bb5242 I agree.. I thought the steering in my FK8 CTR was good, then I got into an older sports car with hydraulic steering and it's not even close, lol..

[@AB-pl1ko]

@@bb5242 - electric steering isn't being installed due to govt regs. Instead it is about carmakers looking for ways to lower engineering & manf costs.

[@robdc4829]

What cars are you looking at? The Wrangler seems like a pretty good bet. The Pentastar doesn't even have direct injection.

[@dre32pitt]

@@robdc4829 I'm not much of a Wrangler guy.. I'd probably go more towards a Taco or 4Runner or better yet an older Lexus SUV with a V8.. Actually any older Lexus with a V8 (I think Turbowski echoed this sentiment as well before) as they're pretty reliable and pretty low-key. But that's pretty much common knowledge amongst car peeps. And because I'm a low-key sadist, I'm looking for a VW R32 to slowly drain my wallet, lol.. Love the look, awd, and that VR6 sound.. And it'll pair nicely with my 987.1 Cayman S as a 'weird' 6 cylinder.. If I can find a clean gen1 Z4 3.0 w/ manual, I'll be set with my Germanic 6 Cylinder Symphony, lol..

[@screviews]

Great video. It seems like the GR Corolla and new Type R have really brought this issue into focus for the enthusiast crowd. The amount of people young and old going into crazy debt for bragging rights is nuts.

[@joe718gt4]

Been like this forever though... I think it's social media that is exacerbating this problem. I met a very high end Ford customer that says he has to fight influencers to get cars

[@shiftym1]

By far the most accurate video out there for the current automotive industry. Your brought up so many great points that I cant even really add much comments other than to say "thank you!"

[@chrtsi6912]

Watching this episode from a bankrupt country across the pod i have to say that you literally nailed it! That's exactly what we car enthusiasts should be discussing & pushing for the proper initiatives if we don't want to end up in dystopian Matrix societies!

[@ans05]

Dealerships are also a joke. My local ford dealer told me it would take over a months and a half to replace my alternator in a 2018 transit.