the power of outrage marketing in kpop

[@TheMusicBoxMashups]

You are making the videos that more Kpop fans need to see to unpack the business side of Kpop.

[@dearyoongi]

Aw thank you so much!! 😁💖

[@Timothee-101]

This is usually never a good idea because most people usually direct their anger towards the wrong people every time.

[@dearyoongi]

Exactly! Even if it had nothing to do with the idols themselves, they always seem to get the brunt of a companies poor decisions

[@Isa-yj5op]

Sometimes that's the point tho, companies will seek any type of attention even if it's for the wrong reasons

[@Currentlyprocrastinating37]

Girl groups often have outrage marketing more than boy groups, for this reason, I think. GGs are seen as more “expendable” and rely more on general audience attention than boy groups who focus on building fanbases. The company won’t care if the members get hate, because the hate is what’s driving the attention, and they’ll get more streams, whereas with BGs, the hate will affect the fanbase and album sales. (Not that BGs never have outrage marketing, it’s just less common for a reason)

[@EvanescenceEverythingOh]

thats make money

[@ishathakor]

outrage marketing gets eyeballs on your thing, but it's such a risky game because it CAN also just completely backfire and turn people against you. i feel like i see people caring about these sorts of things now. i know so many people who were turned off by cookie and just never tuned into newjeans music because of it. it especially doesn't work to get older fans imo because as you get older you just have more responsibilities and engaging with stupid drama isn't fun or desirable anymore. i've been in music fan circles for a long time now and the older i get, the less i care about outrage marketing and the more likely i am to just avoid the thing entirely and i know a lot of people who feel the same way. when real life gets stressful and overwhelming the last thing you need is for your hobby to ALSO be stressful and overwhelming

[@Riri-gn1of]

I am aware that many kpop companies do it because they rely on the fans' short memory and their pity for the group, it works after all! But I make it a point nowdays not to let it slide in the most egregious cases. Macaroni Cheese and Cookie/ETA completely turned me off from the groups, I refuse to ever give money to companies who would p€do-bait and reference terrorist attacks as a marketing strategy

[@dearyoongi]

You're absolutely right! They're relying on fans having short term memory and getting over things quickly. The only way we can really 'teach companies a lesson' is by not buying into their games

[@3h33_xy]

Wait ETA ? It has a sexual meaning ??!!

[@Timothee-101]

@@3h33_xy no people thought the teaser was referencing a terrorist group

[@Things_Are_SUS]

And one bigger reason Cookie backfired so badly, was because people found many images on MHJ's instagram page of movies presenting an underage prostitute, the famous Brook, and similar content. It pretty much renewed the scandal with additional force.

[@bvnditbul7039]

Yup. Cookie and Maccaroni Cheese fully made me turn away from those groups. I was already very hesitant considering the members ages and those songs kinda just confirmed my suspicions. It'll probably be years until I can see past that. Maybe I will never bring myself to support them fully who knows.

[@hakkesho12]

This may sound immature, but I legitimately didn’t follow Stray Kids til 2020-21 because of their survival show; or more specifically, because hearing about Felix’s elimination *immediately* reminded me of Momo’s and made me say EFF THIS😑. “Oh they eliminated one of the foreigners? Interesting. Oh he was actually a super talented dancer who didn’t deserve it, *and* his visuals are stunning? Interesting. Oh what? They said ‘JK’ and let him debut anyway? IN👏🏾TER👏🏾EST👏🏾ING👏🏾🙄.”

[@bvnditbul7039]

I didn't know about this before and now you putting it like this 😳 haha they really just copied that whole storyline I can't believe it

[@mchjsosde]

I don't blame you... I understand music is an industry and is usually a capitalist venture and not an artistic one, especially in kpop. However the blatant manipulation of the public to make money is so upsetting and dystopian.

[@hakkesho12]

@@mchjsosde I completely agree 👏🏾. Plus it distracts from what the artists themselves are already bringing to the table. In regards to SKZ for example, I was seeing plenty of stuff about boys being eliminated from the lineup, but heard NOTHING about how talented Chan and other members are at production and songwriting 🤨! If you wanna market your idols then you should probably try, idk, *marketing your idols*?

[@The_Binninator]

​@@hakkesho12 this WAS the marketing though. The (then) "OT9 or bust, everything depends on this" narrative was designed to bind fans to the group emotionally. And it's still the SKZ narrative, with the fate, destiny, blahblah. Releasing that extremely emotional "a day that happened to be filmed" along with the "Stray Kids" mv was no coincidence. That heavy element of "us underdogs plus Stay against the odds even though we're hugely popular" IS the marketing for Skz and always has been. I love Skz, and have drawn inspiration from their story, but it's ultimately just a narrative. Marketing their actual skills is unnecessary, those should speak through their work from a marketing standpoint

[@mayruuh]

im surprised you didnt mention pink fantasy, the group that had a member in a rabbit fursuit that she would only take it off once the group got a song on bb hot 100.... later they got more humble about it and it shifted to a #1 on a music show

[@CherrieJellyBeanie]

That's so sad because I don't know how they thought they were ever gonna get to hot 100

[@sabrinazou1148]

I feel like YG continuously debuting new girl groups after their current big girl group is in the mist of disbandment/contract renewals is a form of outrage marketing, it happened to Blackpink, and now it's happening to Babymonster

[@cjc363636]

True. First time I heard Babymonster, I thought it was AI Blackpink cosplay. To be fair, I've grown to like the song, but.... It's DNA shows.

[@Sofiaode18]

⁠@@cjc363636For real, no shade to the members I think they’re massively talented, probably one of the most solid rookies so far. But they’re singing recycled Blackpink songs and their sound feels very 2018. Blackpink also didn’t have an identity in the beginning beyond “pretty 2ne1”. YG doesn’t know how to debut fresh concepts.

[@dominoeharlee4454]

I had NO IDEA about the ETA scandal with NWJNS But I will add that they also filmed the music video in Bacelona, Spain lol So yeah, do with that information what you will lol

[@aleahscottage]

The fact that they also filmed the MV in Spain had many people even more concerned on why MHJ decided to add this to her repertoire of bad decisions in terms of marketing... Like I guess she thought marketing based off a literal terrorist group was cute?

[@HailToTheMeep]

Thank you for being the ONE kpop KZbinr to finally talk about it!

[@ignaciotorovillacura6342]

I really like that you can use your knowledge about your career while talking about K-pop

[@arimes31]

it’s so fascinating that even with the knowledge we have about these instances of shock marketing, fans (myself included), still fall into the traps these companies deliberately set up because of mostly unavoidable emotional responses. it’s unproductive and questionable but it primarily does work albeit temporarily

[@belaytriks]

I think a part of that is because most of us know they are doing, sometimes, something disgusting, like ETA and "Macaroni Cheese", and thereforth we want to fans and companies to act as decent human beens.

[@scanspeak00]

Cookie screams outrage marketing. Min Hee Jin has decades in the industry, she knows exactly what she's doing. She was under a massive amount of pressure to make them succeed so she used every marketing method in the book. As much as as I feel a little uneasy with some of the lyrics I have to admire the gumption. Great video Yoongi!

[@Stay_Zerose]

I wish I could believe this but she has a long history with this kind of thing and her person Instagram and her office are filled with pedo images, and not every time she has done this has she actually got backlash

[@k53107]

I also work in marketing and am excited to see this kind of content! The ETA thing with NewJeans is just--too many coincidences, especially given that MHJ has lived in Spain before and the video was filmed there. Yet it's so seemingly pointless (above the surface) that they then have plausible deniability and can paint fans as insane antis for coming up with this theory. Kind of a deviously brilliant use of outrage marketing, but it's also kind of too coincidental when you know how outrage marketing hopes to work: ethically questionable enough to provoke fans (and antifans too) buzz, but just vague enough to be able to paint themselves as innocent. I myself would be willing to give the benefit of the doubt more if MHJ hadn't made outrage marketing kind of her thing, but reality is that it's very on brand for her... as is the general idea of using something extremely taboo and shocking as an aesthetic (seeing everything from how she decorates her house to how she marketed Shinee and NCT Dream). I really hope she moves on from this for the sake of the girls, because she does seem like a liability longterm. Then again, the closest she ever came hurting a brand was with "Cookie" and she changed how she did her outrage, so, we'll see what happens with their new album.

[@k53107]

Welp. We're uh. We're seeing what happens.

[@belaytriks]

The problem is that for me Hybe will be forever tarnished as the member of her group. And now that they are fighthing among Ador and Hybe a lot of this might come back to bite them.

[@exceptionallydistinctivedi481]

I think outrage marketing does more bad than good for a company.

[@dearyoongi]

I definitely agree!

[@belaytriks]

Agree.

[@PsiClausandHyrule]

I do want to point out that macaroni cheese was actually written by the members of young posse excluding the youngest member, which may or may not change people’s minds but is context I find important to the song

[@rinlen11]

but it also had non member writers. there were adults besides members this cleared, it’s still not okay

[@victoria-cp4ui]

red velvet’s happiness had scenes of 9/11 attacks and Hiroshima bombings too

[@andreapaola2750]

Yeah, looks like min heejin really loves this type of marketing

[@mchjsosde]

Hate Rodrigo makes me so sad. I really like Yenas music, i started listening to her after her second or so comeback. Hate Rodrigo was a really bice continuation of her sound which she really seems to enjoy performing. I think it could have been successful on its own merit without the outrage marketing/obviously bad title choice. They lyrics and isntrumenals are so fun, positive and catchy, she never even says the phrase 'hate Rodrigo' in the song?? It is such a rare example of an artist clearly stating their influences and celebrating their inspriations not to mention female artists celebrating on another. It really feels like her whole career will be stained by this and it makes me so sad.

[@SoraiaLMotta]

So "click bait in pratice"

[@mathildes8583]

The name Young Posse is already unacceptable itself

[@SlimeMcfly]

Why do you say that?

[@mchjsosde]

​@@SlimeMcfly​@Maya-tb9jx Personally I don't mind the name that much but I have 2 thoughts 1. Young being in the name explicitly highlights the age of the members as a positive attribute/selling point which is just weird and makes me a bit uncomfortable. Baby Monster has this same creepy vibe in the name. 2. A "posse" is a group of armed *usually* men sent by a sheriff to "enforce the law" (googled it). But it's modern meaning was most commonly co-opted by African American gangs in America who did and still do gather up and arm themselves in order to kill/main/terrorize their rivals. The word has softened over the years to mean basically a group of people that support one primary person/friend ("my friends are my posse"). As a black American, the heavy early hip hop concept of the group could be considered cultural appropriation in itself, which I feel is a step backwards personally but doesn't outright offend me. My problem is more with the violent origins of the word and how it sounds really disturbing smashed against the word young. In many gangs all over the states (not just black gangs) they actually recruit children to murder people. The concept of the group is supposed to denote the latter definition of the word (group of friends) but in the era of hip hop that they reference in their concept, it was still oftentimes the original meaning. It is either out of ignorance or a willingness to continue hip hop's history of glorifying gang violence. I think XXL is a fun song and it is a very good execution of old school hip hop- I really enjoy it! I also cringe and wish they hadn't used that language.

[@allyssaearly-mccullom4964]

26:23-27:07 : Your point exactly! People don't realize how much power the truly lose when the join a label. Idols rarely get to produce/compose let alone be in control of their creativity. But if they do happen to have that free they'er not considered an idol but artist and less prolific. In the end how are ambitious labels gonna keep their lights on and pay their employees? Whatever they know to do.

[@softiejace]

i would be curious to hear if idols having black hairstyles like cornrows in comebacks could be considered outrage marketing, since at this point the inevitable criticism/backlash is too predictable for the labels' apologetic response, as if they hadn't been aware of cultural appropriation, to appear genuine

[@haewonized]

I’ll die on the hill that the eta controversy is VERY LEGITIMATE. I didn’t even know about the terrorist group before the song, but even as the mv dropped and I knew more abt it there were SOO many more connections, the whole story in the mv is literally an assassination.

[@cjc363636]

I think outrage/'lower emotional' marketing has always been around, but it's sped up by the internet. As for Yena.... She should get away from whomever thought up that Rodrigo song/promotion. Good thing her label didn't think of Taylor Swift as the Western artist to sing about--.the Swifties don't forgive. Or forget.

[@alliendisguise]

This may be controversial, but I kinda feel like NMIXX debut was outrage Marke.Because the group was teases as a new power group and with huge vocal talent. Yet the debut song showed very little of it. Also the blind package and making people buy beforehand. I kind hate that because the reputation of that the group took way too long to build up and as a person not familiar with NMIXX predebut I never developed interest in the group. I never knew what they were capable of. It took Jinni leaving and them changing up their style to finally appreciate them. And I can only imagine what the girls gone through at that time. I can understand that Jinni left. Idk why JYP still does this to that extent.

[@bvnditbul7039]

I agree. It took until Dash for me to really give them a chance. I saw the debut, didn't like it and then fully stopped paying attention. I saw people talking about how great they were but since I already had my preconceived notion that I didn't like their music I wouldn't check out their comebacks. Nmixx is fine bc they have huge label support but I wonder how their career would look like right now if they had debuted with something a bit more palatable. I think it's especially outrageous when big companies do something like this (the whole outrage marketing) because they never need to. Their groups are always successful anyway and the only thing it's doing is start fan wars and put stress on the (very often very young) members. Haven't they suffered enough??

[@HailToTheMeep]

You have just described the whole of ktube.

[@kozumekenmas]

when yena’s whole situation happened I was shocked bc it was honestly very embarrassing… like I know yena said it was not anything negative but just as a casual fan seeing her title it genuinely confused me asdfgh and did yena get copyright to use Olivia? I heard that was another issue that had been brought up but never heard anything from it again ,great video !

[@milk__teee]

I think this only works well for non kpop, non Asian media. Since there’s a fine line between getting actually cancelled in asia. If they step over the line, their careers will legit be over compared to if a celebrity in America does fuckedup shit and they are basically fine

[@hattie7306]

i found out about stray kids because of the survival show eliminations, it lead me to watch the hellevator mv and six years later i have tickets to see them at hyde park so... this type of marketing definitely works lmao

[@eva1585]

I hate it because usually its the idols themselves who take the brunt of the hate. These already young (mentally vulnerable) idols with already immense pressure on them get hated for something they usually dont have control over, just so the company can generate some buzz. I dont think we're anywhere near seeing the end of idol suicides if this is the trend.

[@JoshuaAlto]

The Outrage Marketing does more damage for a company, in my honest opinion. To me, I would never hate on artists, so I will not fall for their tricks.

[@mariaromano7481]

Thanks for the video. Now the question is, do companies believe in their groups? If so, what's the purpose of this outrageous marketing! Watching idols 24/7, even when they do nothing. In many cases, there are idols with no talent at all.

[@The_Binninator]

I love Stray Kids, but their 'survival show' was so transparently just a marketing vehicle. Just all of it, from beginning to end. It was just a promotional vehicle. Which is fine, but the fact that so many people believe it does make me feel a certain way idk. Just icky because it pulled so heavily on people's heart strings, but it's clearly not true

[@Owen-Rich]

Great video 🙌🏾🙌🏾

[@kliona9670]

I'm 100% believe that eliminating trainee then add them back is a pr move especially with stray kids (I didn't watched sixteen and almost never watch other survival show so can not speak for everyone). The whole premise of stray kids survival show was not to create a specific group with producers preference in mind by elimination of some trainee but to already selected formed group of trainees earn a right to debut without losing members in a way (cube actually did the same thing with pentagon, they debuted in the similar matter (just a piece of information)) Also I don't believe it was a genuine elimination bc of who exactly was eliminated. Like I can not speak with certainty, it wasn't like I read korean forums in 2018 but from the whole group in the begging felix and minho should be ones with solid enough fanbase to support them throw the survival show. I can even guess their foundation maybe was more solid than some other's members Bc what we as a public not fans yet knew about start kids back then in 2018? knew chan as one of the oldest trainee in group with connections to already debuted idols from company and appearances in their MV. Ppl may heard about woojin since he was a trainee in sm and kpop fans knew this facts and the only other person that we knew something about was minho bc of his experience as bts back dancer. Like it's already some publicity after the show started and people saw stray kids in action let's say I assume felix quickly became very noticeable due to his unexpected voice vs face contrast and due to his low voice in general plus we really shouldn't forget the simple fact - felix and lee know are part of danceracha and are visuals. Let's be honest your appearance as a trainee or idol play huge role in your popularity and like my eliminated boys very much in taste of korean audience so I again assume had enough fans just due to their looks (which is a bit sad but it's not a bad thing in the desperate times you have to gather all you can) So I just don't believe that jyp would want to lose a future group portion of fans and already existing exposure bc of some small mistakes on the stage So yeah pr stant!

[@7296aptx4]

I think the classic ones would be aespa (I love all of them). Gisselle always had controversies of being lazy or just simply lacking dance/professional skills in 2022 (first Zoo performance in SMtown & some stages in the States). But after they had a tour last year, her image change and her fans now targeting the people who targeted her around that time.

[@SoraiaLMotta]

A2k not having a "set number of members, maybe everyone can go trought" at the 2nd phase.

[@neb.9489]

I agree! JYP mentioned how he sees ALL the girls in his desired lineup. It was obvious (at least to me) that he already decided who was going debut just like in SIXTEEN. It was obvious to determine.

[@minale3604]

I'm pretty sure he also did that with NiziU. Maybe it helps with fan engagement : they don't fear getting attached to the contestants since there is a lower risk that they won't make the final cut

[@SoraiaLMotta]

@@minale3604 well thought. My anxious self was thinking the opposite they will axe as much as they need without needing to do the plot twist route. I found it especially upsetting when actual jyp trainees don't make it through. Like the company was plenty aware of their skills, didn't "improve" them, and put the kids on the show, probably unpaid for filming, just to kick them out. Happen on niziu2 and. probably most survivors shows too.

[@Sparksnglitter]

I just found your channel and I am hooked! Love your content, almost all of the topics are new or less spoken about and you keep it really interesting!!

[@dearyoongi]

omg hii welcome! that's so sweet, thank you so much 🥰

[@cryingsobbing]

wavs werent upset about the tripleS aaa thing. only casuals were surprised about it. wavs knew about it from the start. jaden just took advantage of how most casuals wouldnt understand that disband in tripleS meant the unit would be dissolved, not that the members would have to leave the group.

[@milky_quartz]

the big company swallower does it repeatedly now. probably did it with lsf sending them vocally unprepared to coachella

[@eardrummed]

Thank you for this video 😊

[@justlaila9834]

ngl in recent time i feel like a lot of culture appropriation feels like outrage marketing, like yes probably a lot is still ignorance but i cant believe companies dont see other groups have scandals like that, what they see is a group suddenly getting a lot of attention and thats whats imporant for them

[@sabiaakthar1613]

Hybe does alot of this its alot its obvious when articles no one gaf about comes out tryna paint the group as pitiful .

[@goldfishandgiggles4461]

I remember watching no mercy after i was already a fan of monsta x for a while. My vauge understanding of adding i.m. partway through was assumed less as shock value but more of the fact that the other main rapper option, while good at what he did, was seriously dragging the group down dance ability wise. (As in right before that i think? There was an episode with a performance where they had to rearrange everything so that he did more 'acting' than 'dancing' because he couldn't keep up. The judges complimented the group because they'd hidden his weakness so well that they actually thought he was supposed to be the focus as a Good Dancer but also were shocked and disappointed and told him a group wasn't sustainable if it was arranged to cover his weaknesses. Or something to that effect.) Then they panic popped i.m. in and had him do a challenge with Jooheon to see if they could work well together to make sure they could actually meet their rapper quota. At least that's my recollection, it's been years tho.

[@idkidkidk170]

Idk I think the tripleS thing was genuinely just a case of the general public not understanding the group’s concept

[@isabear478]

so sad they use them for quick money to fund for their other label mates

[@dianaosazenaye1313]

Yeah it a problem

[@katgreer6113]

Notice how SM is the only one who doesn't subscribe to obviously rigged and silly survival shows. Just saying. I don't like the company but it says a lot about them MOSTLY relying on pure talent instead of an idols aegyo skills to get audience votes.

[@HailToTheMeep]

🙄

[@katgreer6113]

@@HailToTheMeep what😭

[@neb.9489]

It’s bc they don’t really “market”. SM relies on the “SM Family” to get fans of one of their groups to become a fan of another. They are one the companies with some of the most loyal stans along with HYBE. They don’t have to do all that.

[@bvnditbul7039]

They just have a different strategy I think. Doesn't mean they haven't done other objectionable shit

[@katgreer6113]

@@bvnditbul7039 I know..? I literally said I don't like the company 😕

[@riahlexington]

Macaroni cheese is horrid and I hate it.

[@Crystal-uo2rd]

YG has never debuted big gg, so I do no think it is marketing strategy. It doesn't pay to put 2 members down in front of the world too, he didn't have to name them.

[@camelama]

I still find the Cookie and Macaroni Cheese controversies really ridiculous. At what point do we as viewers hold responsibility for sexualizing these idols over every little thing? Maybe I'm inherently naive in this as an asexual person, but it seems so weird to me that people are so hell-bent on insisting every food-related wordplay MUST be sexual in nature. I guess I shouldn't be surprised when sexuality is pushed in nearly every form of media, but it's just something I'll never get used to.

[@minale3604]

As for cookie, the food metaphor is intensified by the fact that cookie is already a slang word used to describe female genitalia. Also, the song belongs to a type of RnB where lyrics are often sexual in nature. So the content and the mood of the song are both suspicious

[@camelama]

@@minale3604 I've heard that, although I've personally never heard it used in that way that I can remember. But when you look at the lyrics from the perspective of a Korean-speaker, the obvious wordplay is in the verb that's used both for baking cookies and burning CDs (굽다), which also ties into their Y2K concept. It makes so much more sense that that's the direction their creative team was going, rather than risking sabotaging fans' trust in the group's management from the very start of their career.

[@alinfaiza]

​@@camelamaI think nobody would've noticed the cookie thing if she had a clean past

[@m.z1256]

@@camelama if you look the lyrics...noo

[@m.z1256]

@@alinfaiza yep

[@HailToTheMeep]

Although I agree that Cookie was a shock campaign, some people’s over reaching analysis of ETA is just that: Over reaching.

[@SamEricLlort]

Newjeans also have sponsors and give lapdances to their old men fans.

[@val_needs_luno]

dude just remove urself

[@xxxyyy1655]

Where is this information available? I've never heard of this before

[@dearyoongi]

They do what now? 😳

[@katgreer6113]

...right. Be quiet.

[@3h33_xy]

THEY DO WHAT

[@Audiophile979]

I always appreciate a long video after a crazy day at work ❤ thanks so much for what you do for the KPOP community 🫰💕