The Problem With Astrophotography

[@capturethephotons2078]

You are the definition of dedicated when it comes to discovering new astronomical objects and photographing the universe. Enjoy the journey and path you have taken. Clear skies.

[@mikehardy8247]

Half the fun for me, is tinkering with my gear. Remote wouldn't be as much fun.

[@rinceart]

And actually being outside under the stars.

[@luggiduggi]

I agree. Doing the best with what I can and want to afford (equipment, time, location) is the challenge. It does not appeal to me to rent time on remote telescopes since it would not feel as "my" picture anymore. And I have come to terms with the fact, that there will always be someone who has a better picture of the same object (HST anyone?). The time with cloudy skies or a full moon are used with tinkering and thinking about what I could possibly improve next... That is the hobby for me. Therefore, remote telescopes are not for me - unless I built it myself 🙂

[@UnoriginalElephant]

I agree, but I also like the idea of being able to rent time under a bortle 1 sky 🤔 I live in Indiana, so the nearest bortle 1 site is like 1000 miles away.

[@sonicsound84]

@@luggiduggi Its your gear, just not in your location. But I get what your saying.

[@CornerCamper]

You can tinker with the build before it goes out. I'm considering it because I live in a bortle 4-5 and in Florida where we have random storms throughout the night. In the summer, I wouldn't be able to leave my scope out running overnight.

[@JoshChristiane]

Brady is the PERFECT location for this project, wise decision. I just moved away from that area last year and the skies were fantastic. No to mention land is dirt cheap out there, so you'll have clear skies and low operational costs. Internet out there was super good, never had an issue... In fact it was the best internet access I ever had.

[@wattswheelhouse]

What a project! Kudos to you for taking this on. I'll add, many local astronomy clubs have observatories or land for members to set up on whenever they want. Not typically a permanent mount, but it's worth looking into for folks who want to observe on the cheap.

[@AmatureAstronomer]

"Problem With Astrophotography?" I live under Bortle 6 sky. I own a house but have no fence. I have trees on all side at about 35 degrees, except the North, which is clear and 1.5 miles from an oil refinery. I do not have an automobile. So, what I try is to use a fast Bresser 102mm f/3.6 refractor or a very fast 6" S.C.T. with Hyperstar f/2.0 and do E.A.A. with Sharp Cap pro. I have maybe 3 hours of time, depending on target. I do not do post processing. Too lazy. I have had fair results. The break downs, hardware and software issues, extreme temperatures and loss of sleep is the process for me. The hobby. Remote photography kinda reminds me of one of those newish telescopes that automatically takes the photos. Most of the fun lost. I do wish you well in your efforts. Quite noble.

[@astrofalls]

To each their own. There is no substitute for in person stargazing. However, remote imaging unlocks a whole world of possibilities for astrophotography, that simply are not possible otherwise. I’m not saying people should stop doing in person shooting, but I am saying to use your telescope productively it is better to be remote.

[@StarPicturesMiami]

Since I got my Seestar smart telescope in Feb, I have been outside a lot more than when I only had my Celestron 8se. From my back yard the Seestar captures some pretty decent images. I'm in Miami and I can drive one hour west on Tamiami Trail to Big Cypress Preserve or Kirby Stocker parks. Bortle 3 at these places.

[@ziggyfrnds]

Seestar bad hur durr durr :D JK mate, have fun!

[@dgasparotto]

I ventured intro the whole remote Astrophotography venture years ago. To my surprise I discovered a limited market after folks tried this exciting new option. It appears that the experience of doing “it” yourself is far more rewarding that dialing a remote station under dark skies. After the novelty wears off people just abandon it. Also you need deep pockets because it is expensive to say the least. If you do this for yourself and not as a shared ventures or business venture then it’s different. This was proven again by a hosting firm which sold time on remote telescopes in dark skies. Might cover costs but after two years it folded. One has the understand why amateurs delve into this hobby and what and how the psychological benefit it. Good luck.

[@astrofalls]

Interesting thoughts. Certainly people also abandon astrophotography due to struggles around their ability to even set up a telescope where they are. I also think people should be able to have their cake and eat it too, there is no reason why you can’t remote observe, and also go stargazing in person. And as far as novelty goes, yeah ultra high net worth guys run out of interest. But I haven’t gotten bored at all! All remote imaging has done is open up possibilities for making new and creative astro photos. I would say, I got into astro to be able to explore space, and share it with the world. Remote or in person, this is being done

[@johndaley9188]

As with all sports or hobbies, what makes you happy that's what you do. How much time and money spent is up to the individual. Some are not happy unless they spend thousands getting the latest trinket or like you feel the need to find the darkest skies possible. First, I'm an old guy. Started my journey last fall getting educated. A few hundred youtube hours later. By xmas, I made my HW list and was ready to buy($11K). I then found the Seestar. Thought, why not. From Jan, I've captured over 150 galaxies and nebula right from my deck(bortle 4). I read and learn about each one I get. Although small, I even got Jupiter and its 4 moons. I'm having so much fun with this scope. The key word, FUN. Bottom line, do what makes you happy.

[@deep_space_dave]

Hey Bray, it's great you guys are doing this. I grew up in Chicago and I never even seen that many stars until I moved away as an adult. Yes I own a house now but Chicago is still north of me so I am still affected by the city's skyglow which is insane. I actually decided to sell all my heavy astro equipment as I have a spine disease which is making it more difficult to setup every night and invest in fixing up my van so I can drive an hour south of me to Bortle 4 skies so image with a more portable rig. If you look at my Astrobin, you will see my struggles with light pollution and some of my best pictures could only be taken at a darker location. It's nice capturing your own images but sometimes the expense and effort only to get washed out images is just not worth it. It's a shame that Astrobin only awards people who live in darker skies and more expensive equipment. I agree with you this is a hobby for the rich but I hope your goal makes this hobby more accessible to people like me who was a kid who grew up poor in a light polluted city that never saw the stars. Clear Skies!

[@seemantadutta]

I really love this idea! Signed up! I want to know other details, like do I need an annual commitment to get my own telescope or if I can share a single telescope with couple of other friends (and image the same target together to further reduce the cost), and what kind of telescopes/camera am I allowed to have (mono or OSC), and if I have to pay for my own scope setup or will your team setup each individual scope for use. So many questions but I am so so excited! I would like to start off with a wide field setup to begin with and then slowly graduate to deeper fields.

[@davidswan4083]

As a UK astrophotographer it would be impractical for me to sign up to your project but I wish you all the best with it. Although I have tolerably dark skies (SQI 21.66 nominal) I am clouded out for most of the time, and being retired cannot afford the expenses of remote hosting (Spain is popular here). The most I can do (And which I have done) is build an automated back garden RoR obsy so it's ready ro go should an unlikely clear night present itself.

[@sonicsound84]

Why would it be impractical?

[@paulmurphy9358]

Great idea - I wonder if you and Dylan O'Donnell could arrange a Northern and Southern Hemisphere version of it. Maybe even have one pier as a trade for your customers who want some shots from Australia and vice-versa.

[@sstanzel]

I love the spirit here. As an observer of this concept with out any real remote observing experience, what about going a step further to really change the business model and reduce the costs? Conceptually what has to be the biggest multiplier would be the low capacity utilization of astrophotography gear. With gear hosted in a remote observatory system like you are proposing you could change that. You could create a 'market' for unused 'nights' letting customers that have a 'pier' set the prices. Maybe you would find many people would actually give their system time away for free when they are not using it? Or you could be the 'market maker' and take unused nights and set a rental price for a 'borrowed night' to sell to people consider remote observing with you. Maybe you could provide free hosting to anyone that 'opens up' their system for you to 'rent by the night'? Say you get to use it 25-50% of the days in a month and not pay a hosting fee if it's available on the 'rental market'? I expect there are many 'systems' to setup to enable 'guests' onto your system but that can be solved, including automatically returning everything to a preset, software and hardware, before the owner returns. Unused capacity could also be directed in mass to one observation and then made available as a very large total time integration. Maybe that's just a feature for the owners? Maybe it's donated to science? Again, I just encountered this idea from your video thanks to the power of KZbin suggestions based on my recent astrophotography interest so I don't know how much of this is already happening. Thanks for expanding the horizons.

[@defevfefwow976]

I live in Bortle 8 sky, but there is plenty of dark sky only 50 km from my home. That`s why i have a dream of building a minivan only for astrophotography: with monitors, external batteries, interrior red light, just need space and time to do that

[@jpolanco3129]

Great idea ! Do you have any videos on how you edit your photos?

[@astrotechnique1]

Keep up the good work. I hope I get to do this in India in the coming 2-5 years. That's the plan.

[@johnwillsund]

Super excited about this initiative!

[@austinkaiser7190]

Love the idea Bray! I literally sent a message to you on your website right before this posted. Can’t wait to hear more!

[@KevinRudd-w8s]

I'm UK based and am not that far from Bortle 3 or even 2 skies, my backyard is Bortle 5 so even that is not too bad. The biggest problem is the weather. In a good year, I'm looking at fifty clear nights and of course many of those will be affected by moonlight or fall in the summer when we only have an hour or two of true darkness. My most used scope is my ASIair controlled Red Cat 51 semi permanently set up on a star adventurer GTi mount with an ASI585C cooled OSC camera. I have just bought a Cellestron power tank which is secured to the set up so I don't have run mains electricity cables to power everything. I have this by the patio doors so I can take it outside and be imagining within minutes whenever the skies clear for an hour or two. It will be extremely unlikely that I will ever buy a larger telescope than my 115mm f7 refractor as I would hardly ever use it, I have only used the 115 five times since I bought it five months ago and on two occasions I had to pack it away after a couple of hours. Even imaging from my backyard these days is becoming a grab and go exercise. If I lived in the States I would be very interested in your offer. You should be applauded for your practical and affordable solution to the problems faced by so many in our hobby. I wish you all the very best in this enterprise.

[@1865Astronomy]

I just signed up, amazing idea and not only would like a pier but would be interested in investing in the idea for expansion of a third building or to other sites accessible for other parts of the country / world. Sure I would love to have one of those large plane waves that fill the other remote observatories but honestly being part of a team to make this accessible to more people seems like a better investment.

[@garyschnettler3678]

This is amazing! Thanks for doing this! It’s going to be awesome! My only question is, how big of a telescope can we use? I have a Redcat 51 that I assume would be no problem. But what about a 130mm or 140mm refractor…are those too big?

[@grigoryvidishev1810]

Hi Bray, may I ask another question. Would you allow in your observatory bigger mounts like PlaneWave L-350. Of course, I would be willing more as required.

[@hael8680]

Great idea!! Keep us posted! I will likely get onboard!

[@nicklaplaca8438]

Great idea - I really hope this concept is successful and takes off!!

[@KevinMurphy0403]

The very best of luck with your venture.

[@DSOImager]

Nice! That is only a couple hours drive from my place. Very tempted.

[@wooddogg8]

✌😎 Hi James!!!

[@ClearAmbientSkies]

Same, but I'm already at a 3.5 - 4.0 bortle depending on high school football season. I'm still interested though and look forward to hearing from Bray.

[@DSOImager]

@@wooddogg8 Hello!

[@astrophoto_andy3335]

Brilliant! I hope you succeed! Any rental options?

[@robertstuck3214]

What would your remote location have over using something like Telescope live? They have much lower priced subscription rates and you don't have to purchase equipment. They also give you scheduled access to high end scopes around the world. Remote observatories and using a subscription service seem to be doing the same thing. You are at home while the images are being shot from many miles from your location.

[@FrankVanderstraeten-pf2tk]

Where to find more info on how to procedure with a remote’rig at your site ?

[@plumberman19]

Heck yeah! this is awesome!!

[@TevisC]

Looking forward to how this progresses. Subd. I'm interested in where my two scopes land for size. My AT80EDT I think would be on the smaller side.. is my 6 inch f4 newt considered in the same size category? For me, being in North Idaho, winter clear nights are rare and summer no astro dark are frustrating. I do wonder if $200 is still kinda steep. Here horse boarding is about $400-600 a month with feed and facilities like indoor- outdoor arena. They have to be monitored, feed and watered twice a day and stalls cleaned weekly.. in comparison, a telescope takes a fraction of the space and care. Here Commercial - warehouse building space leases for about $1 to maybe $2 a square foot on a 2 year contract. My estimate is this space is renting for about $$5.55 a square foot (6x6 space with pier in center). 50 scopes in 1800-2000 square feet? I know startup costs are high, if we had to replace our 50x160' commercial building it would be about $1,000,000.. (Rambling on here...) The gotcha right now are commercial interest rates and how they wreck ROI... Interest is making up about 90% monthly payment... If 'investors' lump summed a pier buy in would sub $100 monthly space rent be possible? Essentially buy out a loans interest payments by upfronting the capital. Life of a loan interest is going to be 3x to 4x the principal.

[@Gregg69420]

Bray, I have an equipment question. I have a C11 on an EQ6R pro being controlled by ASIAIR. However, I have it in an area where I have about 55 degrees or so on the altitude before I am obstructed by concrete. How do I align my scope? Do I need to ditch my ASIAIR?

[@waynewheaton3210]

I just saw Nebula Photos video about this. I like the idea of getting the cost down. I'd consider doing this with a group of four to six people.

[@jesuschrist2284]

Best of luck with this, seems like a worthy goal. And who knew Texas had the internet? ;)

[@AsthaMishra-sk5cx]

Great idea man!

[@fazergazer]

Yep, I’m in!

[@grigoryvidishev1810]

Thank you Bray, I live in Houston and I would be interested. Could you tell who is the investor into this? It is an expensive project and what you already have there?

[@TexasEngineerScotty]

Can't wait!

[@mariospenard5125]

The challenges with astrophotography! I like challenges! 😀

[@genevievemayet630]

Wow, this is amazing!!!

[@jacobdavidcunningham1440]

what a cool service

[@3SistersAstronomy]

Bray, we added your website to our remote observatory database on our website. Good luck to you and your team!

[@MrSeanboon]

Hi Bray. I just signed up on your website. Interested in a pier for my small refactor setup.

[@AstroDanno]

Sounds interesting and affordable!

[@wooddogg8]

I rent a house but I live in a wetland/swamp. Covered by trees with vines etc, but I'm lucky that I can drive 7 minutes to a Bortle 4 field in the middle of nowhere., where I get pretty good results. Spooky noises from the woods, but otherwise it's peaceful. I sit in my truck with my rig right next to it. It works.

[@FAstroHD]

Awesome, well done mate, if I was local I would certainly be interested, but living on the other side of the world makes it seem a little impractical for me

[@deltacx1059]

The problem i find is actually still the budget issue, ok scopes are easy enough to afford but the mounts are absolutely insanely priced because only a couple companies make them and nobody really completes to bring the price down, every time I hear a KZbinr getting excited it's about a mount that costs more than a used car.

[@jtepsr]

Without listening to your video, all I can say is I am totally disgusted with my local weather living in the NE of the us. It is very rarely clear here and of course I made it worse when I bought a whole new rig!!! Now I will listen to your video and add more comments

[@OMaMaRMY]

The problem with astrophotography is that I can just search up whatever object I want to look at on google and get an even better image than what any amarture could possibly capture. For me nothing beats visual 🥺

[@drahomirmichalko]

The same can be said about almost anything people do. Also, I see how you search for a random object on Google and share it with your friends to get them acquainted with their night sky.

[@keithhanssen7413]

Great skies in that part of the country. I first saw the Milky Way when I was 7 at a ranch between Brady and Menard. Good luck!

[@WildPenguinFromDaForest]

I’m also one of the lucky guys to have both a backyard and I know 2 places where you can easily see the Milky Way (one time I had observed the milky from my house even though I’m not even 10km away from my city) and I’m planning on getting an Astro camera (asi 178 mc color) that I will combine with my sky max 127 from skywatcher and I consider myself very very lucky to have a telescope that cost 600+ euros plus a 300+ euros camera (I am 11) plus my father and my sister both have computers so I will consider using one of em for astrophotography or sometimes switch since my father or sister have to use it , in short , if you have a telescope and a good camera AND a computer (most useful) and have dark skies near you buy yourself some good equipment (600 dollars/euros for telescope is good and I also would recommend getting go to and an equatorial telescope) 300-400 range for cameras is good and a pretty powerful computer to be able to use the camera, stack and make things clearer in your image (recommended app for stacking etc is sharpcap) so you would be in the 1600-1800 dollars/euros for good images and that would last around 5 years for renew of equipment. That’s all the information I can think of for now and I have some questions 1) Is sky max 127 from skywatcher (azimutal) good when combined with asi 178 mc color ? 2) Can I use a Mac air to use sharpcap or is it compatible ? 3) What time of exposure length is recommended for planetary and deep sky ? I hope all that info for people starting astrophotography will help yall And thank you bray to respond when you can ^^

[@aw7425]

Having a less expensive alternative is great. Remember it’s not cheaper, it’s less expensive. Clear skies forever and a day

[@Luftbubblan]

Nice. Hope it is made in a way where you actually control the equipment. The services that's out there atm is very lame. Basically just buying subs. The disconnect from the equipment is so big that it just doesn't make any sense to use the service in an astrophotography manner. Quality is often low as well. If you just want some subs, by all means do so, but you could probably just google a bit and find enough subs for free on the object you want. Good luck tho, fun project!

[@Luftbubblan]

If it would work like something mentioned above, then personally id might be interested so i can content create astronomy more frequent. I got the time to do it 100% but its hard to fill all that time with something :D

[@jesuschrist2284]

I just did a 3ppa in 10 mins under clear skies. Then clouds :(

[@ApoorvaIyer]

I live in Austin and I'd be interested. I signed up to the email list.

[@ryanmichaelhaley]

Astrophotography isn't hard, all you need to get is an imaging telescope, a guided mount, some form of computer like an ASIAIR, then a guide scope, a guide camera, all the wires to connect everything, a good dedicated astrocam, maybe an auto focuser, a dolly if you want to easily slide out your rig, some filters and that's it!

[@Z-add]

They image the exact same galaxies and nebulae a million time over. Hubble already has taken the best ones. No way any astrophotographer can even come close.

[@Astroduck44]

Wowie

[@davidletz9123]

This is not "accessibility for everyone," rather accessibility for those who are willing to pay for it.

[@astrofalls]

Should we spend our time and labor to hosts everyone’s scope for free? Cmon now 😂

[@skywatcher6]

GPT Yes, I've been assembling an astrophotography kit for three months now, and it's quite expensive...

[@commandosolo_193]

woah woah woah..The Problem With Astrophotography is to really start out and get good pics are 5K and up. That's the real issue, starting is expensive and then everything after that is expensive. I have over $17k in telescope equipment and I started at $5k.

[@rvoykin]

To get a rig that’s truly ready for remote observing would be even a lot more than 17,000. You need a premium Observatory grade mount that can find home and nowhere. It is no matter what. You can’t just take and AM5 and ASIAIR and slap it in a remote observatory.

[@astrofalls]

This is a myth. You don’t need a premium mount. In fact you could use an AM5, an eq6 r, an ioptron, etc. I have two remote observatories with cem70s

[@astrofalls]

I agree this is also a problem! The cool thing is that this observatory will allow us to address that problem too. I will be putting together turnkey systems that are very affordable to lease

[@commandosolo_193]

@@astrofallsI am hoping you get it up and running. good luck!

[@sonicsound84]

I want to know WHY it's so expensive compared to what you're doing. What are you doing differently compared to others? Are you just not shaking people down like other people are?

[@Spaceandthings1]

your gear is essentially stolen

[@UnverifiedUser10]

The Daily reminder: Agena Astro customer service is a pure cr@p. Avoid.