The problem with 'the classics vs. BookTok’ debate

[@karolinaal-faisal6660]

I read literally everything, from “Jane Eyre” to “A court of thrones and roses” to Agatha Christie or “The handmaids tale” , I like all sorts of books and I can’t understand why people shame or judge other people by what they are reading, I admit a lot when I read a book that “doesn’t require thinking” but also at the same time I enjoy reading books considered as classics. Let’s all read what we want and enjoy what gives us joy!✨

[@accordingtoalina]

Love a versatile queen

[@anonymes2884]

I mean, that's great, completely agree but I guess i'm left puzzled as to why anyone _wouldn't_ do that ? Why on Earth wouldn't we all just read whatever we want to read (OK, excepting work/study related reading) ? It's absolutely batty to me if there are people only reading what they "should" be reading. (but hey, i'm "internet old" so plenty of things puzzle me these days :)

[@MinieAnne]

I totally judge people who only read self development book 🤣 at this point you need therapy.

[@avie4176]

Exactly, sometimes its better to expand your tastes and be able to appreciate more genres than one. Being a well rounded reader with an open mind is muchg better than being a stubborn and bitter one seeking attention all the time. Besides they often forget, lots of those classics were popular literature in their time.

[@keegster7167]

It’s a completely different experience though. I never thought I liked reading when I was a kid unlike my friends and parents but then I found Beowulf, The Great Gatsby, Vergil, Cicero, and Wittgenstein back in high school and I became obsessed with *that particular* sort of reading. Not a fan of Jane Austen myself though even though her books are considered classics oftentimes. And actually I’ve only really liked Macbeth among Shakespeare’s works so far :p

[@BookishTexan]

I sometimes wish that the people today who lament that “no one reads the classics” could be visited by the ghost of a literary snob from the 1830s who just repeat their lament and then listed all the books the modern reader has never heard of that were classics 200 years ago.

[@accordingtoalina]

lmao

[@ellajorgi2478]

OR that literary snob trashes like half of today's canon or has never heard of it x)

[@ffionjames7350]

Shakespeare was considered too common by some wealthy aristocrats in Elizabethan England

[@scrupulousscruples]

For every “classic” that has been cast into obscurity by the course of time, there is Shakespeare, Homer or Apuleius to restore the balance. Some works speak to the human condition in such a powerful way that they keep resurfacing on the shores of different ages.

[@kirstinvieira6029]

I know this was written 3 months ago but im LONGING to know if youve read Don Quixote - I'm reading it right now and its so satirical and funny about this very topic. Just makes me think you'd enjoy it

[@RainTheStrawberry]

my LEAST FAVOURITE natural law is 'that anything young women like is cringe', like just let me enjoy my kpop and romance books in peace 😭

[@afrinrahman5519]

its not just young women, its all women. like do you remember watertok where people were hating women who were recovering from bariatric surgery. there is also this trend where classic readers tend to sh!t on female romance and ya authors like sarah j mass and say that they lack creativity to write good books and are not actual writers.....like how on earth do you become a bestseller if you're not a writer.

[@afrinrahman5519]

also, its better to give up and ignore them. You can never win them. when I was in high school I got bullied because apparently I wasn't a real reader cuz i couldn't understand the hype around European classics. I mostly read Indian classics cuz I'm Indian and know the historical context to enjoy those then I somehow landed into Chinese and Japanese literature in middle school and never got to explore much of English literature aside from fantasy and i got bullied, until I just stopped caring and left the book club. Now as well, the only classic authors that I've read are Jane Austen, Patrick Suskind, Oscar Wilde, Marry Shelly and Donna Tartt. I've not read all of their works, just ones I know I'd enjoy. The point of having a hobby is enjoying it, so just enjoy whatever you like as long as you're not harming anyone no one has the right to judge you.

[@ellajorgi2478]

the irony is that it's exactly what keeps those things afloat. Like, would there be The Beatles without those girls? Nope.

[@devanshisingh1643]

Just wanna make a slight correction, it's not a 'natural law', it's not intrinsic. It's social conditioning

[@accordingtoalina]

@@devanshisingh1643 I meant "natural law" sarcastically - I hope that comes across

[@natasunshine1541]

There is a literary work on this subject by Moretti called "Distant Reading". In one of the chapters he discusses the problems of the canon (which is what classic books are) and how books are become canon (long story short, there are two ways: 1) readers choose what they like, it becomes popular and canon 2) professors/critics choose worthy books and they become canon)

[@accordingtoalina]

Yesss!! Loved Moretti in uni (at least until the sexual harassment allegations)

[@silviathelibrarian3884]

I recently finished my bachelor's degree in German literature and I actually wrote my thesis on a contemporary YA novel - analyzing how tropes from "classics" were used in it I believe any book can be an interesting reflection of it's time - and contemporary fiction can be masterfully crafted as well🤓

[@accordingtoalina]

That’s such a cool thesis!! It’s always a bit sad to me when people fail to notice that books exist in dialogue with each other. Classics talking to the future and contemporary literature talking back.

[@romy8891]

Über welches Buch hast du geschrieben?

[@romy8891]

Über welches Buch hast du geschrieben?

[@callnight1441]

​​@@romy8891 einmal fragen hätte gereicht😅

[@stella_v_h]

Würde mich auch interessieren, worüber du geschrieben hast!

[@baticeer_]

As someone who reads a lot of classic literature, just about the only thing that bothers me about people who "don't read the classics" is when some people treat it as a *genre*. It makes me a little sad when someone tells me they don't like classics as though you can say that there's some defining commonality between, idk, Pride & Prejudice and the Odyssey, besides them both being old & influential. To me, there's something hypocritical in dismissing classics for not being diverse enough, but also refusing to read non-modern books - I think that the voices of people from history long past can offer perspectives just as different, just as valuable to that understanding of the breadth of the human condition, as the voices of those from marginalized positions in the modern day. "The past is another country," as they say. BUT, I don't think many people are actually doing that! As evidenced by (as you point out at the end of this video) how many people in the book community absolutely do want to explore classics and are seeking ones they can enjoy! So that's not a criticism of what you say in this vid, just a thought I have 😅 At the end of the day, I always make sure not to let my "I hope people read classics" feelings go into any feeling of superiority, instead of just the natural impulse to want books you love to be appreciated by others. Anyone can read whatever they like for enjoyment, be it "literary" or no! (And the only reason I don't read much of fluffy/escapist books is bc I get all that impulse out on fanfiction instead haha)

[@susinok]

I would also have to prepare myself to read The Brothers Karamazov. It's a journey.

[@studyingpeach6691]

You know what, this elitisim is so ingrained in our social psyche that literally last week I was telling my friend that I didn't understand why it was mostly romance or YA fantasy books that were getting really popular on the internet and my friend reminded me that most of the people reading and sharing it on TikTok are getting to experience the joy of reading without it being forced upon them for the first time. Even without arguing about the merit of classical books, most of them were written hundreds of years ago, so even the language can become a barrier of entry that intimidates new potential readers. Everybody gets to decide what their own reading journey looks like and we really shouldn't forget that classics were contemporary at some point and were judged based on reader enjoyment.

[@Guguchina]

Such good points. And it's not just the language being a barrier but also the society and culture of a past age. like for some books it helps to have an understanding of its historical context to understand points in its plot e.g. why tolstoy talks so much about farming in Anna Karenina and commentary on French women 😂 otherwise for some books, people can be pretty confused and lost. Obviously with contemporary books we don't have this barrier as we are already part of the culture in which they are written.

[@studyingpeach6691]

@@Guguchina Exactly. I think people who study literature get so much more enjoyment out of classics, which are generally older books with a ton of historical context, because they get to learn about the period and historical attitudes before getting any reading done. For a fact I know I neither would have understood nor enjoyed War and Peace without the added context of Napoleon's invasion of Russia. I think some people see classics as more worthy of your time because they require high effort and yield high reward.

[@accordingtoalina]

The language is such a big factor. Especially if you consider that, in addition to vocab (and sometimes even syntax) being slightly different from modern English, many people in the English speaking world - I'm focusing on this area because the majority of "classics" on reading lists today come from these cultures - don't actually speak English as a first language and/or speak their immigrant parents' language at home. Not to mention the cultural aspect, as the other commenter noted. The amount of stuff I used to have to look up online while reading 18th and 19th century lit...

[@lampyrisnoctiluca9904]

The amount of reading required from highschool students sickens me. All the assigned books are classics written long ago discussing the problems of the past your typical 15 year old does not comprehend. Be it because we are dealing with different problems now or just their brains not being developed enough for understanding such problems. All while there are many great and exciting books, both contemporary and classic that are not on the list because they are not exploring those "deep" problems 15 year olds could not understand. If I will ever have kids, I will tell them that there is a great conspiracy going on. They are intentionally giving kids bad books to read so they would grow up hating to read. That is there to make them less likely to eventually learn stuff from fiction books. What stuff? Recognizing the propaganda, recognising being taken advantage of, recognising facts as facts and fiction as fiction. So many deep philosophical concepts that are normally hard to understand could be explained so simply with a story about hero fighting his or her demons while trying to defeat the greater evil. We could learn so much from stories. There are people who don't want that. They are in charge, deciding what books are taught to kids. They are giving kids bad books claiming those are the greatest books ever written just so they would learn to hate reading.

[@teleriferchnyfain]

Classics are by definition GOOD books!!!!! Just multiple genres.

[@eve.b5]

As someone who used to read nothing but classic, I find this whole classic readers fuel a dumpsters disaster. I also have a bachelor degree in English *not my first language* and reading classic wouldn't make you smarter or ELITE than others genre readers. If anything I find fantasy books more complex than classic. Don't let anyone shame you for what you read, I did that back in college hiding my YA romance books so my professor wouldn't judge me SPOILER !! she didn't !! she said their are books for everyone n we are all readers ❤

[@accordingtoalina]

That’s a good professor right there!

[@Nicole-dh3um]

There is nothing wrong with reading classics. There is also nothing wrong with just reading for fun as way to unwind and enjoy yourself. Life is hard and sometimes people just want a nice little escape and to have a good time. Why anyone feels the need to moan about how someone else spends their free time is beyond me.

[@hugoblack4133]

Some people spend their free time criticizing how others spend their free time. What do you think this vid is doing...?

[@Nicole-dh3um]

​@@hugoblack4133 Ok, well they can knock themselves out with that I guess. I disagree that this video would be an example of that phenomenon though. Making video essay content on an aspect of contemporary culture is not the same as complaining that someone's hobby is invalid because they are doing it differently than you.

[@hugoblack4133]

This vid is literally a response to an article (read: “essay on an aspect of contemporary culture”) that complained that TikTok is Turning the Publishing World into Fast Fashion. It’s a complaint about a complaint. It’s the very epitome of whiny Gen Z malaise.

[@plugshirt1762]

@@hugoblack4133you do realize you’re doing this very same thing just another layer up right?

[@hugoblack4133]

@@plugshirt1762 No, because I'm not complaining. This isn't difficult.

[@Mysticfaye]

The reason why I fell out of reading as kid is because my mom sort of pushed me to read books that she consider classics. She wanted me ti read “real literature”. My 13 year old self just wanted to read dystopian ya novels 😭

[@accordingtoalina]

bless, I hope you've recovered!

[@lampyrisnoctiluca9904]

that is wrong on so many levels.

[@MrSoBitchy]

Reading nothing is better than reading shit

[@ChrisBrooks34]

Why is the internet so interested in assigning moral judgement to people's hobbies? With every rise in a popular genre has come a wave of judgement about the degeneration of society and moral values. Guys it's not that deep. To be honest, the Literary Canon isn't something that is set in stone. It ebs and flows with the changing of times suddenly, people find an author who was was lost to history or even people who were very popular in their time aren't remembered 40 or 50 years later.

[@accordingtoalina]

That’s a very good question! It runs parallel to the “kids these days” phenomenon of older generation going into moral panics over things young people do. Not to say that younger generations don’t do stupid things, but maybe give them a minute to grow out of it

[@hysteriablack]

During my university years, I was into classical literature and used to cringe at the mere sight of romance and adult fantasy book covers. Oh, how mistaken I was. When the war in my country broke out, I started to read Ukrainian national literature to educate myself and feel more connected to my nation. However, this took a toll on my mental health and left me feeling heavy-hearted and full of grief. In an attempt to distract myself, I tried reading books purely for enjoyment and ended up discovering the world of fantasy books. They lifted my spirits and helped me feel better. Although I still wonder if escapism is the right approach, I can't deny the positive impact that these books have had on me. Now, I read books from different genres and my reading journey has become so much more interesting and diverse. I believe that having different reading experiences is powerful in developing different perspectives, understanding others, and feeling more compassionate and empathetic. There is no right or wrong when it comes to reading - whatever brings you joy, whatever interests you, and whatever you like is worth reading!

[@accordingtoalina]

I'm so happy to hear you've found solace, even if temporary, in something through a horrible time. Sending you all my love x

[@lilaem]

Escapist reading (and writing) has been a coping and survival tactic for people in many wars during history. Lord of the rings was written during wartime and according to Tolkien escapism is not a bad thing at all, unlike some want to make it. It's one of the many reasons why literature can make our lives a little bit better.

[@lucawasserer]

@@lilaem LOTR isn't escapism, it's Mythology, he wasn't trying to make a magical world without war, there is plenty of war in LOTR. He was trying to make a mythology for england and aparently also needed to vent his linguist and poetry skills.

[@billcox6791]

I’m sorry for your situation and glad you found some comfort in reading. This is an interesting insight about what reading is “for”. When I was a kid, I read for enjoyment. Now, not so much.

[@teleriferchnyfain]

Except it is very MUCH escapism!!!! It’s a lot of other things too.

[@francisedward8713]

Clearly I'm in the minority on this one in the comments, but when the most popular books of the year are things written by Colleen Hoover and Sarah J. Maas, I find it depressing. Quality literature is quality literature, period. Judging doesn't help but not acknowledging that literary fiction is eschewed in favour of fast-paced, badly written romance and fantasy novels that contribute nothing to literature or to any discussion, is a problem. This will only get worse and worse as people's attention spans inevitably get smaller and smaller. Call me snobby all you like, but one can easily see the difference between a Colleen Hoover novel and an Ali Smith, or Douglas Stuart novel, for example; I hope the pendulum does not keep swinging away from contemporary literary fiction and classics.

[@asudebirtane8243]

I agree, reading whatever you like is completly valid and should not be judged but I hate the fact that shallow, fast fashion type of books have become so mainstream that whenever I enter a bookstore the first thing I see is the Booktok section. Not everyone has to read the classics or harder books to understand in general but we have come to such a point that people clearly started to lack critical thinking abilities, devoid from understanding nuance or narrative. Our attention spans are shorter already, why must we also be slaves to a "quantity over quality" type of production style in publishing?

[@bean2046]

You're forgetting the survivorship bias. We simply don't remember the bad books from earlier days because no one reads them anymore. Can you name a sensation novel from the top of your head? Quality literature stays literature, quantity literature comes and goes with how easy it is to publish. And if it added nothing to any discussion, neiher of you two, nor me would have written a comment about it. Also referring to todays publishing as fast fashion is disgusting and trivialising the horrors of fast fashion.

[@ladysyllvanas]

I think what I hate the most is just how fantasy is becoming so mixed with romance and most of the books aren't written well in comparison to older books. It's fast paced books, and are getting worse as people's attention spans are also getting worse. I look up fantasy and I get so much YA recs. I want non-YA. Things comparable to LOTR.

[@susinok]

It's out there, a lot of it. Find some fantasy KZbin channels for recommendations.

[@collecticus]

Pretentious snobs can be found in many fandoms, ignoring them might be the best option, as they will see that no one cares about their gatekeeping.

[@cristianamanole3110]

13:33 it's called "western cannon" for a reason. I'm sure there is a "Eastern cannon" too

[@marcossidoruk8033]

This. Being a westerner and being amazed that the most important pieces of art in our culture were made by westerners and consequently whining about "European colonialism" or something like that is beyond stupid. I am genuinely amazed that someone who according to her "has two degrees on literature" can't make this basic connection.

[@shinosmom]

Any book that makes me feel something or encourages me to question things is a good book (in my humble opinion). It is a silly small town romance book, and I connect with this one character? I feel seen through them? Then it's enough for me. An author doesn't have to point out everything in order to criticize something. (comes from someone who enjoys classic lit, romance, and fantasy)

[@laindarko3591]

Your point about how people in academia don't care as much about defending the canon as random people on Twitter do has been very true in my experience. As I've been working on my English degree, my assigned reading (and watching) has included recognized classics but also a wide variety of other things based on what the professor thought would be interesting. I've studied everything in Eng classes from fairy tales to short horror films on KZbin. Maybe it's because I go to a regular public state university and it would be different at an ivy league school, but there's not nearly as much classics snobbery in literary studies as there is on the internet lol

[@accordingtoalina]

I can't speak for all prestigious universities of course, but my experience at Oxford was very much what you describe - most, if not all of my professors were just nerds who really wanted to include as many reference points as possible and were super keen to show how relevant and fresh older texts can be!

[@kellymariem]

I go to a school studying specifically the Great Books program and there is definitely a snobbery here towards “non-classics”. The curriculum is decided on by committee and it very rarely changes, but when it does it’s something small. For example, we read the western canon and Francis Bacon was replaced for Martin Luther. (Granted, we don’t strictly read literature but also philosophy, theology, math, science, etc. full liberal arts spectrum) Anyway, I’ve noticed that books that aren’t classics aren’t talked about so openly. I’ve expressed my love for The Secret History, for example, and people hesitate to share their opinions because of the desire to seem more intellectual. Ive noticed the people who more openly share their opinions on outside books are generally more confident and don’t base their self esteem primarily on academia. Im afraid that’s where many people go wrong

[@kellymariem]

I’ve had experience where classmates will say incredibly sexist things under the guise of personal experience, like “Kant (critique of pure reason) is for the boys and Middlemarch by Eliot is for the girls” which is absurd

[@ruplayinggame3080]

making myself read classics and literary fiction others considered 'smart' put me in years long reading slumps. Now I read some classics now and then and I am finding great pleasure in reading a lot of scifi classics and saying loud and proud that I hate them :)

[@accordingtoalina]

I love sci-fi! my undergrad dissertation was about robots in 20th century literature

[@ruplayinggame3080]

@@accordingtoalina that's so awesome! did you cover Karel Čapek's R.U.R? (I was just telling some book club people about it last night). I also love scifi, but I hate a lot of the canon, like Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World, Foundation, etc :P

[@Andywalker-d3w]

Started watching this thinking surely there aren't THAT many people out there thinking they are superior for reading classic novels. and then I opened the comment section...

[@accordingtoalina]

lol surprise!

[@AnoushkaGhose]

As someone who is a hardcore classic literature snob (Dostoevsky, Dickens etc...) even I can say that there are YA fantasies and modern romances that are actually AMAZING. Despite the story, every book is a book. And while I'll admit books like haunting adeline are problematic- I bet there were books in the pervious centuries I could say the same about. Also what book you read doesn't define your personality. Just because you read the Iliad it won't make you want to fight a 10 year war- the same way if you read smut it won't make you actually physically go out and do those things💀. You can read both Crime and punishment and Percy Jackson my loves. Just read what you love. Those who judge your book taste are idiots anyway- for authors put tremendous effort into their books.

[@morgannerose7856]

im taking a senior level course at university about fan fiction. i also absolutely love classics. the 2 can totally go together !!

[@accordingtoalina]

yesss I love that kind of class!

[@rainrainyrain]

There's cources about fanfictions???

[@bluegazella5875]

15:50 you've managed to put into words what I've been feeling for a while since I started reading! I didn't grow up in an environment of reading. in my country. if you chose science branch at high school (wich I did) they don't give you required readings. and I never had a relationship with books except the occasional ones I download as pdf from the internet just because I was curious about them. 2018 was the year I considered myself officially fluent in English (I was 18). I was reading fanfiction of a certain popular boyband (it was an addiction actually lol) so the love for reading itself was already there. that love for reading became love of reading books around 2020. I saw all the girlies raving about fantasy and romance books and I was like say no more. I read the song of achilles while I didn't even know the iliad existed. and I devoured a book after book regularly since then. from all genres. since I didn't have a deep understanding of it or a bias towards any. I managed to read some of everything. from sci-fi to literary. the few classics that interested me I usually read in my native language. most people in the bookish community think that everyone grow up with reading the hunger games and Harry Potter and Percy Jackson. I did not. not because I didn't want to. but it's just wasn't the time for me to be a reader. and I hope more people understand that reading is a skill and a hobby. not a personality trait everyone could access or have the privilege of being surround by.

[@accordingtoalina]

I also took some time to figure out how/what to read - I was born and raised in rural Romania and did not read fiction until 5th or 6th grade. And even after that, it took me a while to discover what it meant to sit down with a book, enjoy a story and then develop my own thoughts about it. It was not something I'd seen adults in my life do. I started becoming someone who reads for fun around age 16-17 and that's only because my family moved to Italy and my school had a really good library. So, yes, it's annoying to see people online make blanket statements about reading classics without acknowledging the accessibility aspect

[@ttcgr]

i love classics, but i’m so thankful for my highschool literature curriculum for teaching us books are both valuable for the same reasons, and their value doesn’t directly correlate with their value. for instance, we read The Scarlet Letter, and our teacher was so honest with us in saying that she didn’t particularly like it, but we studied it to understand the history of american literature. we read The Epic of Gilgamesh for its historical importance within literature and the world at large, and that’s important too, even if a book isn’t super enjoyable or even good. Some books are masters of their storytelling method, some are revolutionary in form or method, some reflect the cultural lens of the time, and some are just really insightful and well written. All that to say, most classics are valuable reads, but they’re not good to go into blind, as they’re not all going to give you the same things.

[@irisiulia]

i think some classics definitely have their place in the "canon" (or are at least worth discussing) and dismissing them entirely is a bit silly, however pretending that you are better than others because you read these classics and just consuming them for some kind of elitist satisfaction is equally silly

[@teleriferchnyfain]

MOST classic lit is classic for a reason.

[@vov.7397]

This video was recommended by the YT algorithm, and I HAVE OPINIONS, PEOPLE! (Well, one or two, anyway.) It seems to me that this topic falls under the larger category of literary vs. genre fiction. I don't know if something like The Black Prince by Iris Murdoch is considered a classic, but it's certainly a literary novel (and a really good one, Murdoch is pretty terrific) and I do have some concerns that many people are never taught how to read literary novels so they can enjoy them. When I hear a criticism of something like The Sun Also Rises that complains, "Nothing happens. All they do is sit around and drink," I know the person didn't understand the book at all, which is a terrible shame. That reader has been robbed of fully experiencing not just classics, but all books, because there can be subtext, symbolism and all the other "intellectual" things in genre fiction as well as literary fiction. When I was much younger (a pretentious teenager) I really valued critical essays about books I'd read. If the library had a Norton critical edition of a novel, that's the one I'd read. Those essays taught me how to read far more than any high school English teacher ever did, and I'm forever grateful to my youthful cringy pretense for showing me how to get more out of a book than I had previously. Classics are nothing to fear. Literary fiction is nothing to fear. People may need some tools to assist them when they are first encountered, but those tools are readily available and often enjoyable. At 19, I was ill-equipped for Dostoevsky. Reading essays by people who knew a lot more than me helped so much, and that's okay. We all need a bit of help sometimes, and the benefits of learning how to read a bit more deeply have paid off in maximizing my enjoyment of all kinds of books, and reading should, for the most part, be an enjoyable experience.

[@accordingtoalina]

Thank you for sharing!! I love OPINIONS

[@katiebird6929]

I read both TikTok romantasy books and classics 🤣🤣 I find that variety is the spice of life. When reading classics, I find new authors who I love and I really enjoy taking my time with them. On the other hand, I love reading romantasy books to break up the classics and I find they are lighter books to read as some classic books can be quite challenging/dense to read 🤓

[@accordingtoalina]

Variety is the spice of life, I love that

[@stephenconlon4411]

"Unsurprisingly, the majority of the books we consider 'classics' are by white Europeans" This seems a vague statement with worry marks. The question should be about who decides what is a classic. If it is the academic elite who decides (by teaching or writing about a work) then the issue should not be about the creative writers but the uncreative academics who rely on their qualifications as credentials to impress and silence others who may disagree with their pronouncements. Any decision to canonise a work needs to be defended on a variety of grounds. So must any attempt to reject a work. Status, innuendo, and popular opinion are not convincing evidence for me.

[@teleriferchnyfain]

You mean in the English-speaking West ??? Of course they are English language books. In the East Chinese tends to be the go-to classic lit. Funny that…

[@morpheusoneiros7704]

1:48 lmao, are you fking serious?

[@Tolstoy111]

All Arts have a Canon - especially in the West. There's nothing wrong with constantly talking about what the great achievements of a given art form are. What novels, plays, poems endure as standards of excellence. And the idea of a literary canon goes back to the Ancient world. The Greeks had a literary canon. The Hebrews etc. And while it has no bearing on whether you're a good person, it certainly reflects on what you demand. It simply takes a lot more intellectual effort, patience and knowledge to read and appreciate "Paradise Lost" than a Stephen King novel. Lastly, all that stuff about Classics being written by "able-bodied, white, rich, men" is just the same old Critical Marxism.

[@randallmay5895]

The problem with "the classics" is that people read them, but they don't comprehend them. The one thing most classics have in common is that they challenge people's belief systems, and no one likes having their beliefs challenged. Modern society is in it for instant gratification, and they love being told x is right and y is wrong and this book/video/movie proves their point. That way of thinking is superficial, but then again we do live in a very superficial society.

[@Emelia39]

Yep.

[@ABC-sc2ip]

This. Being human is hard and everyone is looking for the easy route.

[@ratfishking]

I don't know how much this relates to the topic but as someone who is chronically bored (anhedonia is a really cute interesting thing, isn't it? Who would've believed that boredom is a symptom of illness lol), I know that entertainment IS actually very important. Being bored CAN literally kill you, so I say, read those fucking "mindless" books if you want to, it's fine, it's healthy, it doesn't make you dumb :) (as long as it doesn't turn into substabce abuse, I guess ಥ⁠‿⁠ಥ)

[@accordingtoalina]

oh wow, I didn't know that was a condition! thank you for sharing x

[@JohnSeney]

I don't know what was "privileged" about people like Dostoyevsky or Poe or Balzac who was jailed for not paying his bills or the half-black Dumas or the disabled Catholic Alexander Pope or so many others who were poor or jailbirds or minorities or too eccentric to be easily accepted in polite society. And I don't know who these people are who automatically like all classics. I can't stand Dickens, Tolstoy, and countless others who I supposedly must revere, and I will say so to anyone. For modern writers I love Sayaka Murata and Missouri Williams and others that no one has heard of so my "love of the classics" doesn't hinder me in our oh-so-wonderful modern world. Love the dog.

[@utopianjourney]

I read mostly classics here is why... My time is very limited, my money is as well... If I'm only able to finishing reading a book every other month i want to make sure I'm reading something that can expand my knowledge... A classic is a book that already proofed it's worth in a way... I can still read it and didn't like it, but i at least i will be able to understand the cultural references of that book... If a read a book that just came out, i can like it or not, it could be a well written book or not, it can in the future have some cultural importance or not, its a gamble and i have no time for that...

[@accordingtoalina]

this is also a valid way of reading and no one should tell you otherwise. I hope my video conveys this: I have no problem with people who only read classics if that's what they're into. Just with people who very loudly criticise people who choose to read other things.

[@psyche8187]

I was going to say the same thing. It’s like survival of the fittest with regard to books. Plutarch is a better bet than whatever I grab off the shelf from the book store.

[@heckinbasedandinkpilledoct7459]

As a somewhat new reader - I quit during my childhood due to video games - I have the same perspective. The “classics” to me are like timeless recommendations. There’s no guarantee that I will like them, but it’s more likely. Plus, YA literature seems to be heavily geared toward light, easy compositions, which isn’t bad, but could leave me with much to be desired. I’ll read the classics first, then YA literature to see which one I prefer.

[@Yourlocal_nychotdog]

As a person who has so called read “classic literature” it is okay to not like them you don’t need to have a degree to enjoy them because everyone has different tastes. Reading these books does not make you better than other people and you have to understand that people like different genres.

[@corycianangel6321]

I wonder, who’s to say that the classics are limited to just English & American literature? Lots of classics from different countries are also enjoyed, from The Art of War to A Hundred Years in Solitude.

[@ericsierra-franco7802]

No one has ever said that the classics are limited to English and American literature. The original Classics are the literature of the Ancient Greeks and Romans. There are literary classics from many different cultures, Western and Eastern.

[@LadyGaladrielOfLothlorien]

I'm from a quite small country (Georgia) and we have our own share of classics. I loved what I've read and I've wished them more popularity quite often. It's just that some are more well known than others :)

[@NoNonsense_01]

Why are you so obsessed with race of who wrote the classics? I am a proud Indian and I adore Dostoevsky because he was the greatest psychologist to ever live. He saw through the pretense of radicals, sense of moral superiority in young men and he had the singular talent of writing the people he disagreed with, with greatest empathy (i.e. Ivan Karamazov). None of that has anything to do with his skin colour or nationality. I don't read modern fiction, because I have tried and found it to be mediocre. Besides, the classics were written to be enjoyed and discussed by common folk. The idea that only someone with literature degree can understand them is absurd. Sure, a lit degree individual can posit wild interpretations but that is not needed to read a classic!

[@Kvell55]

This is garbage. There is no problem with classics.

[@orsino88]

Also, I think that tracing the history of taste in reading is just fascinating (and not worth getting upset about!). Take a look at bestseller lists from 50 years ago, or 100, and it’s remarkable to see what seemed popular or important. Or core reading lists from the Ivy League schools in the 1950s-that will show you how much had already changed by, say, 1990. In the 19th century, “everyone” read the essays of Addison and Steele. As a historian, I see why they are important, but I also can’t picture them back in the spotlight for most readers, for many reasons.

[@asea1203]

I agree with the snobbishness and gatekeeping factors around classic literature. But please lets not pretend like Booktok books like SJM, CoHo or especially any fantasy book are "real" books. These books are designed and churned out in a factory like manner. They are structured in the same way as "slot machines" and designed to get you addicted. These are not good for the brain. Its been extensively studies how harmful this "slot machine" technique is, and it is being applied in the modern publishing industry. These books are actively being made to dumb people down, damage their critical thinking and lower their language and comprehension skills. I don't wanna sound like a conspiracy theorist, but anyone who has studies addiction and been in active recovery can see these mechanisms. Booktok books ARE NOT REAL BOOKS. The more appropriate term for them would be "products" or "fast fashion". They are harmful for our brains (especially if you are an recovering addict/compulsive person) and they are harmful for mass literacy goals as well

[@cow1959]

“reading is bad for literacy” ???

[@luz9719]

"...a type of person that I find very interesting (derogatory)" made me spit my coffee. I love your videos and your witty comments. The war between trash art and classic virtue art has always been a thing. Back when I studied cinema my own professors were quick to judge any student who wanted to graduate and make Marvel movies, which I found very depressing and childlike. There's not a better or a worse way to create or consume art, that's the beauty of it.

[@RafBlutaxt]

This is a great video and I agree wholeheartedly. I think we sometimes forget or ignore that literacy and reading fiction in particular have always been fought over as one field of social distinction. Once being able to read was no longer enough, self-styled elites started trashing the things others were reading, whether it was serialized fiction in Penny Dreadfuls in the 19th Century or the stories published in the "Pulps" in the early 20th Century. Then it went on to disparaging comics and then genre fiction and romance. And at least some authors are playing the same game. A few years ago Salman Rushdie was at great pains to point out that "fantasy" like Twilight and the Hunger Games was "trash" and that his own works wre not "fantasy" but "magical realism" for no other reason but to put himself on a supposedly higher level of cultural production. So-called "classics" or a literary canon are just more tools for that distinction, sanctioned by self-styled authorities whose qualification beyond a university degree mostly comes down to being part of the most privileged group in their respective societies which for large parts of the world still means white men. In that regard a literary canon says more about the society that created it than the quality of the books that are considered part of it.

[@michaelstephaniemarrero1097]

In the United States most adults are not reading above a 6th grade level on a daily basis. I think that we should not be concerned about genres but literacy levels in general. In many public schools in the US, books are not even assigned for reading and libraries are being dismantled in schools in place of computers. So, this topic of genre versus genre seems superfluous to me. Literacy rates are changing. People are not reading challenging material anymore. So go ahead read your fairy smut for kicks and giggles! 😅 But, please challenge yourself occasionally with a difficult read.

[@ericsierra-franco7802]

There are lots of functionally illiterate people in the US. Sad but true.

[@wandahost]

I’ve a major in English and Portuguese literature and I used to think that if you read classics, you were a true reader. When I started to read fantasy and YA I completely changed my mind. Just because a book is a classic it automatically is a good book. I can’t stand Heart of Darkness, because it’s the most boring book I ever read.

[@royaltyreclaimed8027]

I'd like to add an interesting thought to this debate, though: I propose that there is such a thing as an objectively good book, that some books are objectively good, and that someone who can't appreciate an objectively good book cannot do so because they were given a poor formation on what good literature actually is.

[@nidhishshivashankar4885]

You know what’s profoundly suspect about the “it’s just dead white men” angle? The fact that it’s used to DISMISS works. Nothing is stopping you from digging out Gilgamesh, or the Vedas, or the Tale of Genji, or whatever. You know who did? A LOT OF THOSE DEAD WHITE MEN, who were in intense competition with other dead white men to make engaging works. Pretending like cultural bias is intrinsically bad instead of just taking it as a jumping off point is what happens when you’re goal is to undermine European civilization instead of trying to view all cultures in a balanced way.

[@nidhishshivashankar4885]

*your Autocorrect

[@ABC-sc2ip]

Lumping all European writers into "whites" is also ignorant and racist, as whites come from many different countries and cultures and yet all the DEI racists want to treat Europe like a monoculture (they also do this by lumping people of colour into one group like "African or Asian"). I immediately dismiss anyone engages in this type of behaviour.

[@sstjohn96]

As someone with a BA and MA in literature, I also don't understand many books considered classics lol

[@BelleChanson0717]

I have a degree in English literature as well (and a master's in library science too!), and I think the funniest part of all of this is just how many "classics" were considered absolute TRASH when they were first published. Shakespeare was the Elizabethan equivalent of a TV soap opera writer; his plays are full of dick jokes and killing. Jane Austen herself makes so many in-work jokes and asides about how novels aren't respectable (Northanger Abbey, anyone?). SJM is more in the literary tradition of Ann Radcliffe than Jane Austen, but she's not without precedent, all things considered. And besides, life is hard enough. Why make reading, of all things, a chore?? That's why the grocery store exists.

[@ericsierra-franco7802]

Moby Dick had lots of bad reviews when it was first published.

[@marieangealahmar]

I loved and appreciated this so much!! I've also been guilty of falling victim to the idea of superiority when it comes to the classics, because this is what social media led me to believe. But I must say, it is a joy to unlearn that and allow myself to diversify the genres I read. Classics, thriller, mystery, even rom-coms. And your videos and insights has greatly helped me notice where I went wrong. I also fully agree that classics can be difficult, especially if English is NOT your first language. Like yes I'm doing English lit and speak it fluently, but at the end of the day my native tongue is Arabic, and I process any work in that language much quicker. So in that sense and by that logic, no one should be shamed for taking their time with classic or for even reading them at all. Lots of incredible books that analyse the human psyche are being published today and a lot of notable ones are translated from other languages, which stretches the mind even further. Classics are great, but their existence does not diminish that of modern phenomenal books.

[@accordingtoalina]

what a lovely comment, thank you for sharing xxx

[@RuthvenMurgatroyd]

You're just talking about 4chan /lit/ and Twitter pseuds mocking cringe TikTokers but not being any less cringe themselves. The truth is: these people are just mirror images of the same person or rather, continuous with one another. Terminally online book nerds (who may or may not actually read books). It's about time we all just accepted this.

[@Cawd217]

The reality is, as it concerns the Guardian article, there is no real genuine interest in truly finding a deeper truth or perspective in the human condition, only in dismantling every classic or traditional concept, until they find the supposed ugliness and contradiction inside, then inevitably turn around and offer nothing but rehashed, watered down versions of the same thing, but with a different palette or shuffling of pieces.

[@accordingtoalina]

so sad that you deleted the part of this comment that classified my video as an example of why America is falling behind China. The "American decline" argument is one of my favourite talking points lol

[@Cawd217]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@accordingtoalina Oh I thought that section sounded a little too hostile, and was a bit unfair to your own position/presentation, so I cut it out. It’s not that your video is directly an example of American decline, but many of the arguments you broach or bring up are. I do believe this current type of intellectual masturbation around social critique with literature, and many other topics, will open up the opportunity for positive changes, or even a whole rebirth, to come about. That is, if things continue to go the direction they have been. It’s just going to take some time.

[@Lucysmom26]

Tribe 'X Is Steeped In White Supremacy' vs Tribe 'I Am A Very Serious Intellectual Man' is like the ultimate insufferability battle. The latter gets the win, but the former puts up a great fight.

[@edwardmorris3453]

I stopped watching when she said "Not exactly the most diverse bunch." I don't care what she has to say after that. That's the kind of line that makes a first date a last date. Or in this case, a first KZbin watch a last one.

[@haydenwalton2766]

good novels are good novels. sure, there would have been marginalised people (inserts you favourites here) in the past who weren't given the opportunity to write their great story. what's that got to do with arguing what a classic is now ? a little ironic, when the young lady is engaged in her own brand of virtue signalling

[@viniri]

I'm a classics person. It's not because I want to feel superior; I just legitimately enjoy them. I loved some of them (Jane Austen); I hated some of them (Wuthering Heights); and I half liked others (War and Peace). Classics are not all I read. I read a lot of fantasy and some romantasy, too. It's just the genre I read most. On a number of occasions, I have finished a classic and thought to myself, "I can understand why this is often considered one of the greatest books of all time, but I understand why people don't want to read it." Moby Dick is a great example. Moby Dick is two books in one. It is Ahab's revenge story that is interrupted by explanations of the 19th century American whaling industry. I personally loved the whole book because I found the whaling industry explainers interesting, but if you're not interested in that type of thing, I can only imagine how frustrating it could be to read that book. Sometimes classics are hard. It took me five months to read War and Peace because half of the book is the interpersonal relationships of these families, which I found engaging, and the other half is Tolstoy dunking on Napoleon, which I found myself slogging through to get back to what was, in my opinion, the good part. I'm glad I read the book, but I can understand why someone wouldn't want to spend five months slogging through a book to only enjoy half of it. I think people should enjoy what they enjoy, and people should ignore Twitter. It's a cesspool of rage bait. Those types of accounts don't care what your opinion is. They only care about engagement on the platform, whether it's good or bad makes no difference to them. It's clicks for them either way. That's why I left it.

[@alinegreen7266]

I myself am a vivid reader of everything that is in my sight, going from Anna Karenina to The Hunger Games or a Detective Conan Manga. While I agree, that the language that is used in old books can be challenging (I also was fustrated more than ones) but that does not mean, all of them are complex or complicated and no one is "elite" only because they "only read classics". In the end, "classics" are one genre of so so many amazing other ones, it's always so crazy to me how these "classics" are put on a pedistal. Our time is too limited to torture ourselves through books, we don't like and enjoy!

[@Guguchina]

Yes. For people who want to read the classics I always say read a genre you like already. The classics are so diverse bc they aren't really their own genre but a group that people have decided are classics.

[@dustinneely]

90% of everything is crap.

[@asagotchi]

If these people truly loved the classics, they should be happy that it's trendy for kids to read them now...?

[@Em__Cn]

You made so many interesting points in this video, It was such a blast to listen to! I too went through two literature degrees and I ended up with a tremendous inferiority complex from having a hard time reading classics. I read a few a year, have actually loved some, but others... In my case, university helped because I had professors who loved what they were teaching and made them approachable. Which is paradoxical because public opinion says they should have made it harder to enjoy the reading experience. Here are some of my takes (good or bad) : - Big book =/= serious book (Have you seen the Decameron?). - Sad book =/= necessarily better than comedic book (Have you seen the Decameron?). - Some classics are self-insert fanfiction of the author in other work or some are even basically RPF of the time (looking at you André Gide) so... Let's be critical. - If you criticize every modern author, why should we care about your opinion on classical authors who were disregarded in their time? (Also, mocking commercial releases on that sole basis when so many classics were written to put bread on the table...). - Peruse old books that are not classics if that tickles your fancy because some mediocre authors can commit absolute gems but hide them in their uninteresting work. - We should go back to reading passages of classics aloud with people and making it a group activity along with discussion (like it was the intent at the time some were written!) (That's why some classics in audiobook form are a must)(I shall die on that hill). - We have to let some classics die. Because half the "classics" quoted in our own classics have died their peaceful cultural death. I am so sorry, that is a lot of takes, you woke up my brain and, well, I hope it is a bit interesting...

[@justwonder1404]

Second that, I feel like there's some underlying bias that a "serious" classic book must be huge and tragic and that's just not the case. Also, reading classics out loud sounds really fun.

[@Em__Cn]

@@justwonder1404 That's true! Why would a good classic be remote from the mess and silliness of people. Sometimes we just want to exchange riddles and lewd jokes with our ancestors. These are classics too! And, I'd suggest a good tragic monologue complete with frantic acting : very cathartic. Or let's revive plays written for the sole pleasure of acting with friends!

[@accordingtoalina]

nooo don't apologise, I loved reading your thoughts and agree with all of this!! One of my favourite books ever is Dante's Divine Comedy and in uni we always used to joke about how the whole poem is just self-insert fanfic lol

[@Em__Cn]

@accordingtoalina Oh, the Divine Comedy is my reading project for this year! With your recommendation, I can't wait to read Dante's Y/n shenanigans

[@celticwelsh]

There's something to be said about how young people refuse to read anything that isn't "easy" but it offends too many people who think reading their alien fantasy smut makes them "bookworms". And it's not that reading trash is bad, it's that online book communities have become toxic cesspits where only the sterile approved trash can be read without being hounded.

[@ariagrace8117]

Oh believe me people who read sterile approved smut get hounded every single time in the video with people going "porn addicts" (a very grave concern if true) 💀 my mother and her grandmother's generations were enamored by bodice rippers (which would be considered the tiktok smut equivalent of those days), my mother especially, and she has a degree in Literature. People have always enjoyed reading this stuff. The problem is when people actually speak about about enjoying the "low brow literature" - there will always be people criticising them. The publishing industry, and the audience cultivated around any form of arts, has mainly seeked to promote elitism. I don't personally think it matters if that is all they read - of they wanted to read Tolstoy, they would have read him instead of Wattpad y/n fanfics - they stick to Wattpad y/n fanfics because that's what they enjoy. I have never seen someone talking about reading Kafka or Gaitskill on the internet getting hounded for it. If you have, I am curious what it was like.

[@emilyrose1610]

people act like classics are exempt of flaw and can’t be shit sometimes lmao.

[@MsKatze]

I enjoy reading classics and old books in general. Not necessarily because I think they're superior to modern books, but because I find reading them so transportative. I find how our language changes to reflect the current times endlessly fascinating. All that being said, I mostly read fantasy, I even read ACOTAR, and I'm not ashamed to admit that 😁

[@ChrisBrooks34]

To me the argument would make as much sense as if somebody said, "Oh, there's no reason to read to watch old hollywood or classic films." I think what people don't realize is just because something is inaccessible or old does not mean it doesn't have value; it doesn't mean it's not worthy. It may take more effort than you're used to. Whether it be classic literature or classical films, they are worth something. And I think they are worth the investment. I think there is great joy in classic films and literature. Suddenly, the references that people make suddenly make sense to you, and it feels like you're part of this inside joke that has been going on for so many years. But nobody ever told you. then you figure it out, and you get it. On the flipside, there is no need to become entitled and elitist. Just because you prefer the literary canon or watching movies made before 1990 doesn't mean that you can stick up your nose at people who enjoy more 'modern' things.

[@amusicalbookworm]

My higher academic experience is in the world of classical music, which is also fulllllll of gatekeeping and putting down each other’s musical taste in order to be more intellectual than someone else. I guess it just comes with the territory!

[@accordingtoalina]

aaah sorry to hear that was your experience!

[@blueowl3474]

This is such a thoughtful discussion. I agree with all of this. I feel like a lot of people forget that you can just...do both. You don't have to choose between "classics" and popular booktok/romantacy stories.

[@Bonobo_JoJo]

Just read what you like and try to get as much out of what you read as you can. That’s it. If you wanna skim a thick book, and read a summary online only to pretend you actually read and understood a difficult book…that’s on you. From my experience I can tell when someone actually read a book to seem smart vs when they actually did read it. If your only opinions of a book are the mainstream ones, I doubt you actually engaged with the source material that much. But like I said, to each their own. Reading is good, we should all do it.

[@MrMoreti14]

This hole problem who you are describing is nothing new, for example in the gaming community it happens a lot (especially with certain type of games). For many people you are not a real gamer if you havent had completed a certain list of videogames. The only difference i can see (considering what Alina has described) is that this type of people IDENTIFY themselves with a certain genre of books and their vibes, and they dont want people from outside of that circle to come in and enjoy out of the fear of not being unique and special anymore. It is just pure gatekeeping. It manifest in a different way but gatekeeping after all.

[@accordingtoalina]

this is so interesting! I'm sure almost every community has their version of this

[@orsino88]

Two things. 1. You may be sure that anonymous posters screaming about the necessity of reading “the classics” don’t read any such thing, in the same way that anonymous posters screaming about the war on Christmas or traditional values have never glanced at the accounts of Jesus’ life, and find quotations from the Sermon on the Mount repellent. 2. I think that a better definition of greatness or importance in a book is its richness. A great work of literature keeps giving; it rereads well; it gives you something new the 4th, 5th, 6th time through. Shakespeare does this most notably, but he’s not alone-Flannery O’Connor does, and hundreds of others. YA literature isn’t bad by definition, but a lot of it gives you everything it will give you the first time-that’s the way it’s written; that’s the purpose.

[@accordingtoalina]

excellent points here!

[@annieboookhall]

"White, male" sure. "Straight" though...debatable 😅😅 Very interesting video, anyway

[@accordingtoalina]

Lol closeted doesn’t count!!

[@estellealbert9387]

Loved this video and the points you made too. As someone who's completing a ma in literature, I feel like people who are fussing about the "classics" don't really know what they're talking about. Some people in my courses are doing their thesis on fanfictions, some on scifi and others on Dostoïevski or Camus and we all get along perfectly and if anything all those approaches to literature just make talking about it way more interesting. I also especially agree about the fact that classics are not immovable, they very much are and it's funny to read old texts about literature and see that what was so preached 150 years ago is completely forgotten today. Also I think reading the classics (if you like them!! It's not necessary to!!) is a great exercise in critical thinking, either because everyone says something is great but you don't think it is and you kinda make arguments in your defense in your head, or because those books are taught with a specific intent in school and reading them on your own can make you realize they're much more provocative than what you've been taught, or that a classic is generally praised (even a contemporary classic) but you find that there's a lot of things within that book that displease you etc. I don't know if I make sense but anyway, loved your video!!

[@Rockwith_gyu]

no bc why can’t we just read what we enjoy without having to worry about what’s the “correct” option?? I’ve been getting in to classics and many of them make me think in ways i haven’t before. That being said there are times where i need to simply turn my brain off and read. despite being classics or contemporary fiction, there will be books i love and books i hate. ntm the language barrier that exists with classics. one of my first classics was frankenstein, i read it for school. while the story and the concepts were so incredibly interesting, i found myself easily lost and loosing interest. they aren’t always super accessible

[@artemissaartstudio]

i for one love love love it when pop culture references the classics. i find great books to read through it. eg: clueless movie, taylor swift songs, gilmore girls, 10 things i hate about you, my fair lady, hunger games, for whom the bells tolls by metallica, etc.

[@elishahdavis]

same!! the amount of classics i’ve read because of gilmore girls is insane as someone who primarily reads non-classical literature.

[@accordingtoalina]

same! the whole Shakespeare and Austen adapted into teen rom-coms era of Hollywood was my favourite!!!

[@giachen3295]

I always find it funny that modernist literature and such is used like a badge of conservative intellectualism, when it started off as a subversive literary movement and part of the youth culture. I think books are just like any other media. We have to find a balance between letting people like what they like and being critical about each individual book. There are good (and bad) books from any genre in any time period!

[@CaseFace981]

This is a fantastic video, and aligns perfectly with a few of my own recent feelings surrounding the discourse of classic versus modern books. I’ve had many conversations with folks who have read “classic” books and found them dreadfully boring, but that doesn’t mean the book is not deserving of its praise of being a part of literary history. On the same hand there are groups of people that read classics that view anything written in the last 25 years to just be senseless drivel that no one should even bother with, and I can’t help but feel this is just an example of many people’s close-mindedness to embracing societal change and new forms of literary art. All in all I think people should be allowed to read whatever the heck they want to read and the books snobs need to leave other people’s TBR’S alone.

[@bellaking3185]

My personal take away is this, there is a large issue concerning classism within the book community. By differentiating between classics and non-classics in the sense of it being “real” literature or not creates a new type of discrimination and “class” within the book community.

[@ericsierra-franco7802]

But not everything is a work of art. Not everything is literature.

[@jellogirl2010]

I've read a lot of classics. My dad's rule for me growing up was two classics for every secular book I read and I've come to realize that I love classics way more than anything written today. If I dislike a book written today that's loved and praised by BookTube/BookTok, I doubt myself for disliking it and giving it less than 5 stars (my opinion). Especially in today's culture where it's frowned upon to give modern books low ratings. I don't have a literature degree, I never went to college but BookTok has definitely intimidated me when it comes to books like Fourth Wing and A Court of Thorn and Roses. I don't want to read them because I know I won't like them, and I don't want to deal with the repercussions of not enjoying it. I'm fine with people reading whatever they want, because it means reading is alive and well.. but I know what it's like to be judged for not liking smut or fantasy.

[@lizzycorvus5109]

A lot of book discourse stems from people needing to establish their taste as a sign of moral superiority. This is true of classics snobs, weird YA fans who insist adult fiction is all boring and lacks diversity, etc.

[@certifiedsorcerer3826]

Thank you for yet another nuanced and considered video! This is why I love your channel. I myself am someone who reads a lot of "classic literature", mostly because it's cheap and out of copyright, but also because that's genuinely where my interests lie. Yet, even with my relative familiarity and genuine interest, I am still very intimidated. I feel, as you say, that I am not allowed to dislike a book, that it is an admission of weakness or stupidity on my part. I know that this is not true. I know that art is subjective. I know I can analyze a book and articulate my criticism well; that my opinion is not "less valid" than someone who can analyze a book and articulate their praise equally well. But I feel shame all the same. I didn't study literature formally. I am not an expert. I completely understand why someone wouldn't want to deal with this additional stress in what is essentially their hobby. At the same time, I can't help but feel sorry for people who avoid any and all classic books. "Classic" isn't really a \*genre\*, per se. It's a label applied to any sorta old book with enough critical acclaim. Classics are so diverse! In terms of tone, style, subject, etc. There's an entire century between Jane Austen and Oscar Wilde. There's an entire ocean between James Baldwin and Tayeb Salih. It's true that the "western canon" is a problematic concept and very white-centric, but there are other canons; there's loads of non-white authors and classic literature from other cultures. It's unreasonable to expect to enjoy \*every\* classic, but I feel confident stating that there's a classic out there for everybody. Also, these sort of discussions frequently get tied up in an absurd dichotomy between "reading for entertainment" and "reading for enrichment". The idea is that classics are these big, boring books that responsible adults force themselves through because it's like exercise for your brain or whatever. It's a very silly sentiment that's not confined to either "side". Much like how I enjoy exercise, I enjoy intellectual stimulation. I *like* analyzing a book and thinking about its ideas deeply. That's my idea of fun. There's no dichotomy for me; they are one and the same. Reading for enrichment is entertaining and reading for entertainment is enriching. TL;DR: People shouldn't feel obligated to read books they don't want to, but I hope they'd keep an open mind. You might have more fun with a classic than you expect!

[@rksnj6797]

I discovered your channel by accident. I was watching another literature channel and this video came up as a suggestion and the title interested me. (thank you KZbin algorithm!) You make so many valid points. I've enjoyed reading many classics that I have reread over the years and have gotten more out of them due to a longer life experience, I've enjoyed some classics that I probably won't read again, and as many have, some classics I've read I really didn't enjoy. Thank you for this video! BTW your dog is absolutely adorable! Such a cutie!!!

[@accordingtoalina]

ahh this is such a nice coincidence - thank you KZbin algorithm indeed!

[@mark7166]

Classics are very hit-and-miss for me. For example, I LOVE Animal Farm, 1984, Dracula, Frankenstein, Brave New World, much of HP Lovecraft's work, Dante's Inferno, and Beowulf (not sure if all of these would be considered classics, but I think so??). I enjoyed, but didn't love, Crime and Punishment, but I couldn't even get past the first chapter of The Brothers Kharamazov. I enjoyed the Illiad and Odyssey, though they could be a bit boring at times, and extremely repetitive. But I HAAAAAAAAAATED The Picture of Dorian Gray. It was so boring, and full of just endless pointless conversations that by the time I got to the big reveal, I was just like... I don't give a shit. Why is this book so popular?? Hahaha...

[@accordingtoalina]

Hahahaha fair enough! I have so many favourite classics - I’d go as far as saying a good 70% of my favourite books are classics. But I agree - did we need to know all the names of the soldiers that fell at Troy? Probably not. Could Joyce’s Ulysses have been shorter? Probably, yes. And we’re allowed to say these things. This blind classics above all else approach is silly

[@mark7166]

@@accordingtoalina I completely agree :)

[@astronics]

Sameee

[@M1cheLLe98]

I love reading classic literature but sometimes it's really draining, so I started to read a fantasy book and a classic at the same time. Like sometimes I need books where I don't need to think and just enjoy the vibes.

[@billcox6791]

“Classics” are just older works that are popular. Like anything, that’s due to some combination of quality, marketing, and luck. Are they better? Yes, to the extent good works are more likely to be popular Are they more worth your time? Maybe, to the extent popular works form the context for new works and older works have had more time to influence other works, but a good work should also be able to stand on its own

[@crushedmilkshake6690]

i love reading and i love reading classics, however sometimes i just want to have fun and read something simple. This is like people arguing about movies and which are better, like yes classic movies are classics for a reason but i dont always want to think too deeply about every movie and its message. sometimes i just want to have fun.

[@rosea2350]

Reading is reading; doesn’t matter if it’s a classic book, a comic book, a magazine ect. 📚

[@ericsierra-franco7802]

Reading more challenging material will improve reading comprehension.

[@suhaani885]

I personally feel that it is very much okay to read any book you want, after all reading is a hobby, it shouldnt be made into burden. At the same time I also feel that classics are classics for a reason, and i am not saying that everyone should like them, not at all. Its as Mr. Keating said (from the dead poet's society), dont just consider what the author thinks, consider what you think. So its okay to not enjoy a classic, its also very much okay to not "get" them. No one should feel pressurised to agree with them or understand them, for everyone has a different taste. But i see on social media many a times that people call books with spice literature and get defensive when someone says they arent. I do also agree that people arent always the kindest when comparing classics and recent social media famous books, but let us acknowledge and respect that there are better works. I read fanfiction and classics and can agree that classics are better written, yet I absolutely love some of the fanfiction i have read. And i am not saying that the famous books these days are not well written or anything, there are plenty books that I hv read thanks to bookstagram that are just lovely.

[@accordingtoalina]

yes, I think the "spicy" romance books fall into a category all of their own. I wouldn't necessarily go out of my way to argue they're comparable to some literary classics. But I do think that there's a place for them in the world and I also think that they can be gateway reads for a lot of people who might be intimidated by "serious books"

[@suhaani885]

absolutely@@accordingtoalina

[@Moriarty70]

I've tried to start Joyce's Ulysses multiple times and got bogged down. Now I've grabbed the audiobook version, all 40+ hours of it. At the same time, I will chew through a Patterson book. ALL READING IS VALID READING!

[@aldakendall4921]

I read it in high school due to it being based on the Odyssey and I was wanting more of that...

[@tylersquanto8938]

@@aldakendall4921What high school had you read James Joyce’s Ulysses?!

[@aldakendall4921]

@tylersquanto8938 a public high-school in SC. Advanced placement. I also would read all kinds of books. Still do. I got into forensic books then. John Grisham. Poe, again. The Iliad. Books similarly styled. A great one on the Trojan War, by a fantasy author. It was about Cassandra

[@hyenaedits3460]

I had to read a lot of classics in college for my creative writing degree. The way it was explained to me is that not every classic becomes a classic for the same reason. Sometimes it's the only surviving manuscript from a specific time, especially if it's very old. Sometimes it was very popular. Sometimes it speaks to the culture or mindset of a historical era. Sometimes it has some sort of universal appeal. So not every classic is accessible to a casual reader. They shouldn't be required reading for every person. There's so many and a lot of them are hard to get into if you don't understand the historical and cultural context. Mom gave me a classics advent calendar made by a German artist. The advent calendar just had pictures but she tracked down the actual books. Some of the books on the calendar are ones we've never heard of and a few were impossible to find in the US because they've never been printed here. Mom could only find the movie version of one that I really hope has an English sub because the entire package is in German lol. The point is that what is considered "classic" is very much tied to national and cultural identity.

[@de_hobbyhoarder50]

I also just finished To the Lighthouse and gave it a 2. I gave her book The Voyage Out a low 4. As a classics lover and lover of books in general, I'm just starting Tobe comfortable with the fact that I just don't enjoy some books, even when everyone else does.

[@accordingtoalina]

So so important. Figuring out what you like, what you dislike and why is so much more valuable than uncritically trying to take in everything considered valuable by some arbitrary measure

[@deardsco]

Why do people on the internet love to make everything complicated?

[@heckinbasedandinkpilledoct7459]

Dull and shallow lifestyles, I’d bet

[@johat1219]

I mean, romance classics are just a product of their time such as modern romance (Pride and Prejudice is sort of an enemies to lovers from the 18th century), so remember how many of those classics were scandalous back then for depicting rebel/queer/independent women and such. But also, at least there used to be more interest from authors to also have plot and critics to their society and circumstances and many of those are timeless problematics which endure the pass of time, making us still relate o an 18th century woman, and which I find many of the modern novels lack of these days. And that somehow books are becoming a fast consumption item (literally many booktokers take pride on reading a book a day or making book hauls), so they neither stop to analyze what they just read a little bit, but also authors dismissing plots and consistence just for a fast reading product with lots of smut and clichés to just keep their readers entertained for a couple hours. And it´s being doing on purpose, knowing the fast track consumption of booktok readers. I believe there is great modern literature with the potential to become classics but it's getting lost between all the hyped/fashionable/focal world of booktok. You can see this on bookstores too, with displays that sometimes even show the aberrations that has been the bad categorization of works, like putting a lot of erotica right next to YA works, just because it has a quirky cartoony cover art. Or the booktok recommendation sections. So if we now measured the "how to achieve" becoming a classic on pure sales numbers as it used to be more frequent prior book tok era, we are not having the same standard, because now sells might be high not because a work is good, but mostly because is well marketed. Many readers get the feeling of did I bought this because I thought I will like it or because booktok hype made me do it? Also, people forget that classics have a lot of cultural reference, I can say this as a latinamerican, my classics are not the same as northamericans or brits. For example, in our schools we don´t commonly read Mark Twain, Louisa May Alcott, Dr Seuss, Charles Dickens, Henry James, Christopher Marlowe, etc. Our classics include Gabriel García Marquez, Isabel Allende, Mario Vargas Llosa, Marcela Paz, Jorge Luis Borges, etc. I bet many of those are not in your "Penguin Classics" right?

[@finding.dorii.]

Hello ✨ I switch it up. I belong to both classics and also the YA/fantasy/romance parties. Tbh I read The Bell Jar - I felt the same like I am not allowed to say bad about it, and I marked my rating up. Then a couple of days passed and my consciousness just didn’t let me be and the rating was unfair, because I just didn’t like it. I watched videos of people who are more qualified to explain what I just read, and my opinion didn’t change. I got the book and what it was trying to say, but I just hated every minute of it so bad.

[@tomrojigualdo]

For me a lot of the points in this video resonate a lot, even as someone who reads a lot of classics and wishes more people would give them a chance. But here's the thing, when people talk about reading the classics, they mean classics that are already widely popular to an anglophone audience. I like a lot of Hispanic authors like Isabel Allende, Benito Perez Galdós or Vargas Llosa, and I'm pretty sure they're at least somewhat popular in their home countries. But when someone suggests they could read authors from another literary canon, I've seen the same English-speaking readers who only give attention to the same classics everyone likes on TikTok get really defensive. (Tbf, I'm not sure if Allende and Llosa are considered classic authors, but I surely loved their novels and they've marked me a lot! But yeah, I might have more of a "old book that's complex" definition of what is a classic)

[@s_kelli_ngton]

Thank you for the validation. I read Wuthering Heights, and though I enjoyed other works of the same period and genre and even author, I hated that book. I doubted myself when writing my review because it's so acclaimed but I had to tell myself, its okay to not enjoy a classic. It doesnt mean I'm dense or wrong it's simply my opinion.

[@teleriferchnyfain]

I have graduate degrees in lit. My fav books (outside of Austin, Wilde, & Tolkien) are those by Ursula Leguin, Douglas Adams, Neil Gaiman, the ‘Queens of mystery’ ie Christie, Marsh & Sayers, & of course Doyle. I love those novels that really are steam punk (Verne & Wells), Lovecraft, Simenon (in French - I do read it). Also a huge KDrama fan. I am NOT a fan of the kinds of books being pushed by these youngsters on Booktube, etc. I’ve read some of them - have a friend who loves them. But most just are boring to me. I have been saddened by the way SF has disintegrated over the past 30 years, & it’s hard to find decent mysteries as well. I have found a couple of interesting suggestions on social media but it’s a slog🥺. It’s either faintly misogynistic SF/fantasy nerds, or these Booktoc types gushing over the COVERS of a book as if that has anything to do with the quality of the content. I was SO pleased to see one of them recommend a book by the author of Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norell the other day - how refreshing!

[@craftyhobbit7623]

Although I love reading, I have never wanted to take English Literature classes (beyond what was mandatory at school) because to put it simply - most of the texts that you study at a-level and above aren't the type of stories that I am interested in reading. I like science fiction and fantasy and these aren't genres that are typically covered, and even the few science fiction books that are considered classics I don't read because I find the story to be too naïve - they were written at a time when knowledge of science wasn't as advanced as it is now and much of the time I find holes in them - many of the books seem to reflect ideas I had about science when I was a child at primary school and when I know that an assumption that they make isn't correct it pulls me out of the story. They remind me too much of the sci-fi and horror movies of the 1930's through to the 1960's which again, are naïve. As a consequence of this, I prefer to read the sci-fi and fantasy literature of the 70's through to the mid 2000's. What people read and like is varied and just because it is a 'classic' doesn't always mean that it is good literature - it usually means that is has survived by being reprinted many times. In the end, the only thing that matters is the reader enjoy what they read.

[@5ft4inprotagonist24]

I like classics AND romantasy and it's honestly become difficult to navigate online book spaces because people act like there are only 2 readers: "reads for fun/doesn't really think about what they're reading" aka YA/romance fans and "analyzes texts and has critical thinking/snobs that read stuffy racist books" aka classics fans. Why are we fighting? Can we all not lavish in our enjoyment of the written word together? Or just leave people with different tastes to their books? For readers, you'd think they'd understand complexity like that you can find analyzing the books you read to be fun and that books written for a younger modern (and female) audience have interesting things to say.

[@sc6658]

Were you vaguing Hemingway? 👀 Cause man I have a fucking beef with Hemingway I can not stand his mediocre ass work. As someone with an English degree who took an entire class that was half about Hemingway (and who is a certified classics enjoyer). That said though, I do think reading “classics” holds some importance but not out of some weird elitism thing. I think ultimately that having some footing in classics is good because older influential works are the foundation on what modern literature is built and it can grant you a deeper appreciation and understanding of a genre and the tropes employed in stories. This is a bit of a crazy example here but I definitely feel like having read Byron’s Manfred is really helping my understanding and appreciation of gothic fiction as I read Flowers in the Attic, you know?

[@marksteelman7747]

There are gate keepers in every hobby. They usually don’t have any real power other than the power to run their mouth.

[@accordingtoalina]

Hahahaha good point

[@cinemacritic4801]

There is no such thing as 'The right book' to read. The fact that a person is reading is valid enough, be it new, old, or from any genre of literature available. Anything can have depth or meaning if you invest in it and find joy in deconstructing the book to the best of your ability. Those were the authors' original intentions to begin with. I'm a biological researcher, and due to my career field of study, I read endless articles and research papers on various topics within the world of genetics, molecular bio, etc. However; in my free time, I spend hours reading graphic novels from DC comics and enjoying the latest exploits of the Caped Crusader. I share this information to shed light on the fact that intellect is not inherently bound by the types of books read but rather what you do with that knowledge and whether that book enriched your life. Love your reviews and assessment deconstruction videos. You are a wonderful debater and present an array of options and facts in such a well-respected manner. All the best to you in all of your endeavors 🌟.

[@SheriMaple]

I read classics, especially books that are less widely read. I'm curious about what thoughts were conveyed during that period. Novels helped shape the culture and are a part of the knowledge well. I'm particularly interested in works from the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries European nations and the United. States are forming national identities and empires competing against one another. In addition to writing about themselves, how are they writing about people in other cultures, or how are the voices silenced in fiction works? I'm interested in the idea of fiction being "universal."

[@ellajorgi2478]

There's YA novels in one corner of the ring, classics in the other, and non-fiction is sobbing somewhere outside in the rain 😅After getting my undergrad in literature, my fiction/non-fiction ratio shifted toward the latter, and there's so much fascinating stuff which is also highly enjoyable to read, that I do feel kinda sad that I rarely if ever see such books pop up on my feed. And of course I'm not talking about self-help or get-rich-tomorrow stuff (no shade here) but about culture, history and such. *sighs*