The Prometheus Problem...

[@KertaDrake]

"Look, we had a few extra Novas and a prototype Intrepid saucer. The engineers wouldn't shut up until I let them bolt them all together into one ship and after seeing the results, I called in a favor with the Romulans to get rid of the abomination! How was I supposed to predict that somehow, against all odds, an outdated EMH would appear out of nowhere, corrupt the modern EMH, and take the ship back?!"

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

Yes but why not just, yknow, sun?

[@KertaDrake]

@@trazyntheinfinite9895 Plausible deniability and all that... Plus there's that occasional issue where things flying near the sun causes them to emerge in a different time period. Last thing you want is your advanced warship to show up in Klingon territory in the 5th century and end up getting a stern visit from both future Starfleet and the DTI guys after they clean up the mess.

[@Alnarra]

I think the key to remember about the Prometheus is less why she was designed and more when she was designed. To me, the prometheus is the perfect answer to "Am I facing 1 Cardassian Galor Cruiser or 3 Dominion Strike Fighters." Because while a medium cruiser could easily punch above its weight against cardassian designs the swarm nature of the Jem Hadar fighters necessitated coordinated attacks from multiple angles. The prometheus as a platform offers both. A way to outmaneuver a set of vessels that would just as happily ram you as fire weapons and then the ability to fight as one vessel with larger shield and weapons projections against the cruisers your enemy fields.

[@MrGunlover12]

Not to mention if fighting a borg cube, it helps fill out a swarm attack.

[@davfree9732]

Also, put landing gear on the top section, you have part of the ship that can land on planets like Voyager to conduct surveys while the other two parts patrol. Then if a bad guy comes they can form Voltro..- uh, Dai-X junction..- Mmmm… bring them together? Dammit… that one’s power rangers. I got nothing.

[@spartan078ben]

@@davfree9732@davfree9732 It would also make sense as a light troop carrier; instead of one massive landing zone, you can establish three smaller ones, opening up multiple fronts and beachheads.

[@entropy11]

I think it was alluded to in the episode but. The sort of shielding that Starfleet was facing at the time was weak to being attacked from multiple vectors in a coordinated, simultaneous fashion. Combine this with how, generally, Starfleet starships operated alone, or in small squadrons at most, and the ability to hit hard from multiple flanks at the same time becomes more relevant. Later designs would also tend to include strong auxilliary vessels like the Aquarius and Eagle, combat-rated chevron separation, or upgunned Yellowstone runabouts to provide multi-vector combat capability.

[@William_Paul]

The Prometheus class outguns the Sovereign class, just like how the Sovereign class outguns the Galaxy class regardless of its size. As technology advances, their size doesn't require much resources and packs a heavier punch. Just like the Defiant class its small warp core is more than adequate for its size, just how we should consider that the Prometheus class subsections warp cores would be. The warp core and impulse engines technology would be more advanced than that of the Defiant class and would be just as fast and maneuverable if not faster and more maneuverable. It's unlike for a Federation starship to not have aft torpedo launchers. They have a standard of 2 forward and 2 aft launchers, with the exception of the Galaxy class (1 fore and 1 aft), the Defiant class (4 fore and 2 aft), and the Sovereign class Nemesis refit (4 forward and 6 aft). It's safe to say that the Prometheus class has 4 forward torpedo launchers and 2 aft as a whole and in MVAM each subsection has 2 forward and 2 aft launchers and that's a total of 12 launchers armed. As a Borg defense ship, the Prometheus class would have advanced shield technology than that of the Sovereign class, even in MVAM. Each section of the ship can take on a bigger ship, just like how the Defiant class is able to take on Jem'Hadar battleships and a Klingon Negh'var class flagship. Given the fact that the Prometheus class was built after the Sovereign and Defiant classes, it is the most advanced long range tactical starship of the fleet. It can also be refitted just like the Sovereign class with extra torpedo launchers and with phaser strips on each of the nacelle pylons. This video does not do the Prometheus class justice especially for a ship so advanced and innovative.

[@SPatrickRoss]

I'm still convinced that the Prometheus was strictly a Technology Demonstator.

[@thomasthibodeau8628]

Remember this class of vessel is more than the multit-vector assault mode. In "Ship in a bottle" it is clearly stated that she is a test bed for a ton of starfleet cutting edge technology ( anybody remember regenerative shields) she not just a typical cruiser. She is a top of the line next-generation cruiser, far ahead of anything the other powers would have for a long time. She does serve a purpose putting out fires on the outer limits of federation territory, where getting a collection of vessels together could take days or weeks. Now you don't have that problem, this thing is the fleet, or wing, or squadron or how ever you want to classified it. And other then the Akira class is my favorite class of starfleet vessel

[@entropy11]

Yeah, I think Venom missed the point that the Prometheus is a mid-sized ship that hits like a Soverign, and sure it might be as expensive as a Soverign too, but it's also fully capable with like 20-30 crew.

[@Sensiblefool]

I always viewed it like the beta version of the defiant. Like they didn’t get it right so they tried again. That or it was the Pentagon wars Bradley development just kept getting features.

[@entropy11]

@@Sensiblefool Like a lot of NX ships, it was a testbed for a lot of new systems.

[@TheRezro]

@@Sensiblefool Pentagon Wars is a satire. It actually criticize guy who it present as the main protagonist.

[@Sensiblefool]

@@TheRezro I know but the idea of admirals making something like the Prometheus just works so nicely and we all have seen that development montage.

[@TheBigExclusive]

You are looking at it the wrong way. It's a Treaty Breaking ship. If a Treaty restricts the number of ships in an area, then you can "skirt around" those Restrictions by bringing a Prometheus class ship.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Ooh that's a good point. Something to sneak into the DMZ or Nuetral zone

[@TheBigExclusive]

​​@@venomgeekmedia9886 - you are also overlooking the potential of stealth here. Just like the Defiant, Imagine the Prometheus equipped with 3 seperate cloaking devices. A single Prometheus is being chased by a Dominion Patrol ship. They go into a Nebula, split into 3 ships, cloak, and go into separate directions. Now you have to with 3 cloaked ships running around behind enemy lines. Or a Prometheus goes into the DMZ or Neutral zone. Then splits off 1 section to go hide behind a moon and cloak while providing long term reconnaissance. Imagine a stealthy submarine that can split into 3 smaller submarines that are also quite stealthy. The potential is very dangerous here.

[@_Reverse_Flash]

I would agree with the general sentiment here. This ship might be a bit juvenile as a warship but could excel as a reconnaissance/spy/intelligence ship...but it would need a cloak.

[@princecharon]

OK, now you've got me imagining a Prometheus-class starship named the USS Theseus, and people commenting on how many times each section has been replaced, and whether it really counts as the same ship.

[@entropy11]

in the books Scotty had a pet testbed ship named USS Theseus, and it's basically like that. Every part was replaced as they tried new tech.

[@Irelym]

The Prometheus, when the engineers answer, Because we can.

[@shanenolan5625]

I know engineers they love to change things ( doctor McCoy)

[@davfree9732]

Every now and then you should let your engineers outside to frolic free as nature intended. And when they come back they'll have a thrown together a new design that takes all the elements of past good ships, and incorporates them into a 'concept ship'... ... And then someone had the bright idea of actually building it!!!

[@KertaDrake]

It was either let them build the Prometheus, or have them mutiny over having to build the next hundred Mirandas for the war!

[@herbderbler1585]

@@KertaDrake to be fair, they've started alternating Mirandas and Excelsiors on the assembly line to break up the monotony.

[@absboodoo]

@@KertaDrake Even Toyota let their engineers build the LFA so the said engineers don't go crazy building millions of boring SUVs.

[@0utc4st1985]

Multi-vector Assault Mode is a logistical extension of a feature almost never used. Otherwise I liked the concept of the Prometheus, almost like a hot rod Sovereign. Fast, well protected, and powerful.

[@davfree9732]

Aye. It took the Enterprises Warp Saucer separation in Farpoint and not only perfected it... but they tuned it to a rapid separation attack option. Everything else about that ship stems from the engineers hearing what Picard did, and saying to themselves... "Huh... Never figured they'd do something like that... Okay then lets give them the feature!"

[@trustin.p9504]

"Hot rod Sovereign" Now that would make an awesome t shirt.👍😎🔥

[@travismcgreat3823]

My pappy said, "Son, you're gonna' drive me to drinkin' If you don't stop pilotin' that Hot Rod sovereign "

[@JeanLucCaptain]

If it was simply modular sections that could be easily replaced it would make a lot more sense.

[@TheRezro]

@@davfree9732 Galaxy separation feature was a failure. In old Constitution separation of saucer was emergency feature. They try expand on solution in Galaxy, but the problem was that while in theory evacuation saucer while engine section stay for combat, did make sense. In practice staying together what did boost the shield, was way more rational solution. Until actual evacuation was involved, as seen in Generations. While I don't mind Prometheus class as prototype. This same problem did apply to it, but was even worst. On top of that while after separation one section was destroyed, this would make entire ship nonoperational. Having several smaller exchangeable ships, what can join together would be way more logical solution. Even if even it has problems. I think Romulans did try something like that? Anyway, Prometheus sort off can work in larger numbers though. But that is not how it was promoted.

[@zephyr8072]

The fundamental issue is that everyone asks why is Prometheus but nobody asks how is Prometheus.

[@Watcher1134]

If i was to redesign the prometheus i would move Vector 1's nacelles to the port and starboard sides of it's structure like the defiant. Make the phaser arrays more strategically placed. Give Vectors 2 dual fore launchers and single aft launchers while Vector 3 has 1 or and 1 aft, Vector 1 gets a single for launcher. Total 6 Launchers The vector 2&3's pylons would have impulse engines like the intrepid and have a darker interior more like the soverign but still with the sameish layout. Add one during the battle of the Bassen rift along with other classes as originally intended.

[@shaytepes7351]

Prometheus is doing ok, I asked. Gets to see the kids on the weekends, and goes to therapy twice a week for anger management.

[@mrgreatbigmoose]

I'll do you one better, when is Prometheus?

[@boo-urns]

Prometheus: *warp engine idle sound*

[@Brockyman]

My liver hurts

[@barrybend7189]

Meanwhile me with my Star Trek Online Prometheus: oh you out number me?....... Now you don't.

[@peterhans3791]

Even more frightening to hear if you are using the hydra variant and its console.

[@barrybend7189]

@@peterhans3791 i have the full set.

[@mdredheadguy1979]

😂 Me as a Science character, warping in with my Vanguard carrier: launch fighters, activate photonic fleet, activate menhiam effect, send fleet support request, call in the elite fighter squad ane last but not least, activate Delta flight beacon! And just when you manage to drop my shield facing, a temporal duplicate of my ship shows up! So, who has out numbered WHO? 😂

[@spencerjones841]

A prometheus sans multi vector and all the costs and volume that would free up would be a really solid basis for a mid sized cruiser class.

[@entropy11]

in STO canon, this is basically what happened, line production Prometheus were made without the multi-vector capability to keep costs down, SOME were still made with the multi-vector system intact, and a potential foe wouldn't know which kind they were facing, and both were bleeding-edge advanced destroyers so you're in trouble either way.

[@stars9084]

I’m fairly confident that you’re severely underestimating the basic proficiency of the Prometheus, simply based on the Voyager episode. Three Sabers would never take down a Romulan Warbird that quickly, plus the way you’ve described it doesn’t seem to track for me with the description the computer gave to the doctor. As for the utility of the Multi-Vector, there are other possibilities. Starships tend to intensify the shields facing their attackers. In theory by hammering a shield from multiple angles you could prevent them from reinforcing any shields, or even better take advantage it the enemy already has reinforced one shield

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

That engagement is pure voyager power creep.

[@stars9084]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Voyager didn't really start power creeping like that till Season 5. Even so there is a slight canon explanation for that power creep which was only specific to Voyager- they only started one-shotting anything and everything after a 29th century Borg enhanced their Phasers. Even if you accept that the fight with the Warbird was overdone, which I think is explainable but I could still easily accept, I don't see how you can handwave that down to the Prometheus being a medium cruiser

[@TheRezro]

@@stars9084 While show is canon. Everyone agree that what we see in Voyager should be taken with grain of salt. As all good writers moved to DS9, while all fan-fic writers to Voyager. As such show suffer on massive consistency issues. Anyway, Prometheus was most likely a prototype. So while it could be bit more powerful. It probably was never truly intended for the combat. But more to check what did and what didn't work.

[@stars9084]

@@TheRezro I definitely agree about Voyager. The only thing that bothers me is that in simple terms of how the ship is described I don't think it could qualify as a medium cruiser. And do you think the class itself was never meant for combat?

[@marcmosteirin7575]

​​@@venomgeekmedia9886hmm, you can't just ignore how quickly it took apart the Nebula and the D'Deridex in canon. Those multi vector phasers didn't seem underpowered at all to me. Theres more to his ship than meets your analysis, i think ❤

[@fightingfalcon777]

Something else I could see with multi-vector assault is maybe a defensive function for if the ship gets attacked by a squadron of smaller, more agile attack craft that can out-maneuver the Prometheus. If it’s too big to dogfight with these attack ships, by splitting into its three component parts, it can now maneuver on par with them

[@KertaDrake]

I could see each section also using the split to reveal extra phaser arrays that are between the sections. Each section may have been purposefully-built that way, as it might not have been feasible to just put ALL the weapons on the outer hull of a unified ship that size without making it blatantly look like the Living Witness version of the Intrepid, which might not go over well for the view of the Federation as a peaceful organization even if they are building it during a war.

[@233Deadman]

That sounds like something Starfleet might come up with after the Dominion War, after all it often looked like the only Fed ships that could truly go toe to toe with a Jem'Hadar attack ship were the Defiant class.

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

​@@233Deadmanwhat..... are you even talking about.

[@TheRezro]

@@233Deadman Lol, no. Defiant was powerful for it size. But this ship should be basically defined as Corvette. Actually many were easily destroyed. It is classic case of hero ship syndrome. What is even funnier if we realize that OG Defiant was in fact destroyed and replaced by Sao Paulo during the show.

[@Ty-yt3lj]

“Because it would fucking rule”-The Prometheus design team, simultaneously, every time the one Vulcan on the team questioned the latest new idea. On a side note... yeah for all the questions the Prometheus raises I think its still not as bad as the Texas, with the context of the Texas being a disaster for all involved. Literally.

[@casbot71]

Glad to see the designers of the Pegasus's phasing cloak were allowed to carry on working... As they slam down the 24th century equivalents to red bull. H/FY!!

[@thomaszinser8714]

To be entirely fair, the concept of the Texas could've been very good, and kinda makes sense in the context of the Dominion War causing massive crew losses. The problem is that Buenavista couldn't be bothered to look into making the automation safe.

[@M167A1]

Right after they finished the design for this they all threw the horns and put on some monthly crue. 🤘

[@AltaniNerdAuRa]

The Prometheus class is the most anime starship that has appeared in Star Trek and that Starfleet ever made. I mean, if they wanted to make a Star Trek anime... this would be the ship they would need to choose. Like, if this thing was charging at you... you start hearing "The Witch from Mercury" or some other anime battle theme.

[@weregarurumon3202]

needs shuttles that combine into a giant shield and grappler arms equipped with gatling drill missiles to punch enemy starships

[@patterofheads256]

Well the Akira class exists... but I get and agree with where you are coming from.

[@talyn3932]

You are missing two important aspects about this ship... It's in the name... Multi VECTOR attack craft. It basically can flank it's own opponent. It almost doubles it's weaponry and you do not need a massive warp core for skirmishing, you can redock to recharge. it is also a ship that reinforces itself and the entire crew of a single ship will be a veteran crew of three ships that work together closely during an engagement. The cooperation and coordination of the separated vessels will be second to none. So basically what you have is a larger vessel of decent combat strength that can deliver more surface area weapons in three parts as it splits into 3 highly organized and cooperative crews. Each vessel will split will full Energy banks as well as the ability to recharge off of their own warp cores. Each will be able to flank an opponent. each can reinforce the other. If one takes critical damage, the vessel itself is not lost. You have multiple ships for rescue if one ship is downed. You have 1/3 less chance of losing a veteran crew f the ship is heavily damaged. You can create fully intact vessels in hours if you suffer losses in battle by pulling sections from surviving ships. You can send in sections for upgrade and repair while maintaining full mission capability... hell, you can have refit sections fly to you, dock, and fly back the same section for refit. You have numerous tactical advantages having 3 warp signatures for 1 ship, or 1 warp signature for 3 ships. You can guarantee survival of one section by sacrificing the other two. You can have a smaller crew for 3 vessels as the crew from one splits off for skirmishing without sacrificing mission capability. It is an incredibly versatile ship idea.

[@M167A1]

It doesn't make much sense, it would be easier and less complicated to simply build more less complicated chefs.

[@wotertool]

@@M167A1Maybe, but Starfleet is not known for doing that. All the major powers complain about the overengineering SF does to their vessels. Romulans focus on one big bad boy, Cardassians focused on a larger fleet of medium sized ships and the Klingons supplemented their swarm BoPs with Vorchas. Starfleet meanwhile designed and built ship types for different purposes out of pure just. And then made sure that each specialized ship is still capable of doing all the other stuff that all the other ship types were intended for. With the Defiant being the sole exception so far (from what we know on screen). Offscreen explanation obviously is that SF is the main faction and viewers & designers want diversity in ships. But budget does not allow that for all other factions. Imagine if SF was the bad boy and the shows had been Romulan focused all along. SF would only field Constitutions and Mirandas. Forget the Excelsior, Ambassador, Sovereign, Intrepid, Nova, Norway, Akira, Saber, etc etc etc. Maybe they had added the Galaxy Class as counter in the romulan version of TNG. Just to ignore that one's existence for a modernized Miranda in the romulan equivalent to "Picard S1/2/3". Because nostalgia. The Prometheus is a testbed and I'd argue its pros outweigh its cons, especially with Starfleets main mission and fleet doctrine in mind.

[@TheRezro]

@@wotertool I think it would be safe to assume it was just a prototype.

[@kathilmechworks4895]

As a tactical cruiser, I really like it. Regenerative shields type 10 phasers and ablative armor. All the good tech starfleet has come up with for their combat focused ship and bringing it forward on something bigger and meaner than a Defiant or Saber while being much much faster than both. As for the multi vector it does make me ask why not just use a saber swarm.

[@chrischros8790]

There might be some sort of network integration, when let's say the commandcenter of one section is damaged or destroyed you could remote it via console on one of the other sections. Sort of like a bunch of secondary battle bridges.

[@kathilmechworks4895]

@chrischros8790 more concerned with power loss. The type 10s are probably not hitting as hard as when the ship has a combined warp core, and I have to imagine the shields aren't as strong. I'd rather just commission a bunch of these as tactical cruisers than go through the logistics nightmare of this thing coming home without a section. It's fine If you make extra sections, but at that point, why not just build a ship as these things would be just too costly to store.

[@MercShame]

Prometheus also has ablative armor, type 11 phasers, and can run with a tiny crew supplemented with holograms. The ship is used in the 29th century according to enterprise.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

(26th) century. And I think we should take anything from that scene with a big pinch of salt.

[@MercShame]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 true, but it's still canonical. But, I guess that's why STO tried to say it was ships all across time fighting the sphere builders.

[@lf2208]

Another bizarre Prometheus conundrum that I haven't seen mentioned before: *_How do you organize the crew of a Prometheus class starship?_* Remember how the Enterprise used 3 duty shifts in TNG's "Chain of Command I & II", and how Captain Jellico wanted to turn them into 4? So that's the ship operating on 1 duty shift, 1 off-duty shift and 1 sleeping shift, and then the entire crew manning action stations in case of battle etc. How do you do that and at the same time also make sure that each of the Prometheus' seperate parts also has it's own functioning crew assigned to take up all the responsibilities needed to make them work as completely seperate ships in turn? Imagine I'm the ships tactical officer, so I report to the bridge in case of Red Alert. But then the situation calls for Multi Vector Assault Mode, and as the ship's 3rd highest officer I'm assigned to take command of the Gamma section now. That's a completely different job from the one I'm trained to normally perform in critical situations. Then there's also the fact that I have to haul my ass to the Gamma section bridge before any Multi Vector Assaulting can get going. And there's all the other shipmates running from one part of the ship to the other before seperation begins. Imagine this happening in the chaos of a battle, where things are breaking down, people get incapacitated, and there's a critical need to fulfill each job in a timely manner. Sounds like a bad idea to me.

[@Eulemunin]

An issue that is often overlooked is the command structure. Normally a captain and XO command a vessel, one on the bridge and one in the combat information center. But now you need 3 commanders for each section and 3 XO’s. And then they join back up and the extra staff are redundant.

[@AtlantiansGaming]

It was an early concept for Fleet Formation. A Shelby creation. Applying the saucer/battle section strategy from Best Of Both Worlds. My idea is that it is intended to swarm a Borg ship, 10 Prometheus’ become 30 targets. Then whatever ships survive can replace lost sections with other ships.

[@SiXiam]

Well she would have been a Captain when that ship was tested, not an Admiral making those decisions.

[@Wedgekree]

My personal thoughts are that it was clearly a prototype - it appears around a year into the Dominion War (perhpas less) and is undergoing shakedown and field testing before it's stolen. Given only a few officers were trained in it and all of them were casualties, it's likely it's development was set back, and it probably did not get operational before the end of the war. Timeline-wise it probably started off as something for the Anti-Borg fleet, where you had a ship able to throw out significantly more volume of fire, and the Borg have hsown issues being able to adapt to large amounts of weapons fire coming in from more angles. So perhaps mroe but not necessarily high power attacks at different frequencies would be useful. It's weaponry seems considerably potent - it heavily damages at least one Romulan D'Deridex in combat and forces two pursuing Starfleet ships chasing it at warp to drop out of the fight. Then again likely most of those shooting it were doing so at lower power as they hoped to recover the ship intact. My personal canon is that it was a prototype/testbed ship that was taking longer in development so wasn't given priority by the Borg attack at the beginning of the Dominion War, and wasn't fully launched/completed it's shakedown until after the War was over. Given it's not seen in further 'canon' crowdshots it might not have seen mass production or the prototype version was considered a testbed. It seems even more adaptable with an extremely low crew requirement. A bridge crew on the primary section is able to operate all three units at full combat effectiveness. I can see a lot of the automated technology being the most useful thing that comes out of it. We don't know exactly how many crew it would be expected to have for a mass production model, but likely not that much of one. So my personal canon is that it was a ship deeloped as part of the anti-borg wave of ships, was harder to make work so only had the prototype operational by the end of the Dominion War, which saw the end of it's real necessity for further production. So development may have ceased or only a very few units were made. Given ti's status as a very strange pure combat vessel that was likely hideously overengineered and a maintenance nightmare, after the Federation became mroe isolationist after the Romulus Supernova it probably was mostly put into mothballs or decommissioned. Though it may have been a big part of advancements in automated tech to help lower crew requirements for ships.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

Prometheus is ideal for deep raiding missions where it can use its long duration high warp abilities to penetrate deep behind enemy lines and then split apart to hit multiple lighly guarded rear area targets or simply confuse the hell out of whoever is fighting it.

[@TerrenceChilds-xz3xu]

The only thing wrong with the Prometheus class starships is its size they could have made it bigger

[@davfree9732]

I like the idea of this being a pursuit ship. Picards emergency saucer separation in Encounter at Farpoint would have gotten the SF engineering core working to make what he did safer, faster and more reliable with extra features… but really they needed a concept ship to push those features and show their value. The result is a ship that can chase down opponents, and when they are cornered instead of one ship, it splits into a Wolf Pack and swarms its target. Fast separation and reattachment would be needed to make the most of small windows of opportunity to pounce on a ship, or recover each section and go back into pursuit, using the combined ships power to chase down a target.

[@bloodyirishman5758]

Interesting design. My biggest negative about it is the nacelles of the "wedge" section. I always thought an incorporated nacelle design like the Defiant had would have been much better for many reasons.

[@sunnyniu3849]

It's like the navy wants to build a new destroyer leader (or light cruiser) for the destroyer squadron, what they ended up was meshing the whole god damn squadron into the destroyer leader itself lol.

[@johnbrandon5493]

Here is a scary thought explored in Internet chatroom RP years ago: The Prometheus is a subscale prototype and is intended to be built in a 2x and 3x size. A 3x Prometheus would be a volumetric equivalent to a Galaxy with room for a fighter wing and a regiment of Starfleet Marines as well.

[@matthewbardos4424]

I wonder if the Prometheus was another anti-borg ship that, due to its complexity, didn't make it to full scale production at the same time as the other ships. The multi-vector assault idea was an attempt to "swarm" the Borg with too many targets for them to focus down, all with different shield and phaser modulations. Thus, the Prometheus wouldn't be quite as good against the Dominion in a straight up, near peer engagement.

[@barryelverson9486]

I always looked at it as three Defiant class like ships that otherwise functioned as single ship with range. Also the episode showed that AI controlled attack pattern in action. It was also equipped with the latest tech. For something described as an experimental it’s fine. As a class it is a one trick pony.

[@shanenolan5625]

Cheers. I see promethus. Like the galaxy class . It can split but but you wouldn't want to do it to often. . Combined she is more powerful I think I read she can only do a year , before refuel/ resupply. She guzzle fuel

[@TroySpencer-l5b]

I enjoyed the Prometheus class. It was nice to see something new and different. A very cool tactical vessel that can create 3 targets or support craft. That would come in handy in a variety of situations. Thanks for another awesome video!

[@TheRezro]

While I don't hate Prometheus. It clearly was a bizarre idea, with dubious usefulness.

[@glrasshopper]

I have always thought that this is a ship that was designed by a committee of scientists, instead of an actual, qualified, military ship designer. Basically, it suffered from Star Fleet's naive insistence that they're non-military organization. The moment that they needed to design a proper military cruiser, they didn't put any thought into what makes a good military cruiser.

[@tyreecebaker6600]

The Prometheus is an awesome ship end of discussion.

[@darkguardian1314]

I would make the Beta section the primary target so the ship can't recombine in a fight. I doubt the saucer section can connect to the lower Gamma stardrive. It's a mess. I would have thought sending out drones to swarm the target would be a better solution.

[@nekophht]

I like to think that the Prometheus was a testbed for the saucer separation system for the Galaxy, and underwent a major rebuild/redesign, etc post-Wolf 359 to extend the concept vs Borg. This could explain the two registries - lower registry is the testbed, higher registry is the basically entirely new ship that we see in Voyager. With the Nebula Prometheus slipping in between those two groups, and the decision to officially name the ship Prometheus came soon before launch (causing confusion on the registry to be displayed) following the loss of the Nebula-class ship. And despite it being a cool looking ship (I have the basic and Hestia in STO, and the Eaglemoss XL), the MVAM seems rife with issues in actual major combat - like what happens if the middle section gets destroyed. If nothing else, using your example, a Prometheus vs 3 Sabers discussion, if you lose a Prometheus section, the entire ship might be basically out of action after that battle until it gets replaced; if you lose a Saber, you still have two Sabers in the fight after the battle. It's basically the reasoning for why the CL154 program never got past sketch stage with the USN - 2-3 fleet destroyers provided similar firepower, but preserved firepower better with ship losses. I feel like if the class was to go into mass production, it'd be ditching the MVAM and going through the resulting internal redesign (let's call the redesign the Hestia-class ;) ). Looking at my XL Prometheus, is seems like there might be a pair of ventral phaser arrays that could engage directly aft., but aside from those four tiny arrays dorsal/ventral there does appear to be a massive lack of aft weaponry. Maybe they decided it was maneuverable enough it didn't need much aft weaponry? Or perhaps if it needed to worry about aft firepower, split into MVAM instead?

[@patterofheads256]

While I don't disagree with any of your points I do have two counters, the first being more fact-of-the-matter and the second being more gut intuition. First: The point you make about cost effectiveness of the ship vs how important it's place in Starfleet is immediately makes me think of the good ol' NCC1701D, a Galaxy class ship. The Galaxy class ship was for all intents and purposes a badass can do everything and anything ship, but in the long run it was so overly complicated and difficult to build that Starfleet only made six Galaxy class ships before the Dominion war broke out and only four more that we know of after the war broke out (Which may have just been bare-bones versions made only to fight with the anticipation of being refitted for general use after the war). Only 10 of the hero ship of TNG were ever built, yet we still love and respect everything it can do. My second counter is simply this, and keep in mind this is the 10-year old inside of me typing this. Ignoring the fact that the class didn't exist at the time of it's launch, how much better would the Voyager crew have faired if they had a Prometheus class ship instead of an Intrepid class ship being stranded in the delta quadrant?

[@jankjason]

They would have to have extra captains on standby for the other two sections.

[@critter30002001]

Here is the main issue with the modularity for wartime repair/swaps. To do that effectively, you would need to have the module sections ready in reserve for all possible losses. To do that you would need spares of all three modules, in other words, entire ships in reserve. So, it would be useless since the damaged Prometheus class ship would be just rotated to the rear, and a new one would just be sent forward like any other ship.

[@90lancaster]

Dumb you say, Sir, have you seen the Oberth Class or the Nebula Class ? Heck even the Steamrunner & Norway ? Compared to them the Prometheus is quite sensible.

[@classreductionist]

Ugh this hurts because Prometheus is one of the best Voyager Episodes IMO. I honestly wish the idea of holographic operatives was explored more in ST. I like the idea of Prometheus but the problem is that it seems to be fully automated which makes it absolutely moronic to be used against the Borg. If the Prometheus could be split into 3 manned and crewed ships prior to a battle to allow 1 ship with X firepower to become 3 ships with X/3 Firepower...that's actually a really cool ability in certain situations. The Dominion War actually proved that Carrier Doctrine was beginning to take hold in the ST Universe.

[@darktemplar0827]

"Come the 25th Century, we don't really see the Multi-Vector concept"? Oh just multiple Ships attacking as one in the Picard Season 3 finale. Good catch

[@mattwilson8298]

Hmm, didn't realize till now just how much the seperated wedge section looks like a baby star destroyer. 🤔 Edit: Theseus's Prometheus nearly killed me.

[@lorddaro7771]

From the Voyeger episode it originated, I got the impression that it was designed around the idea of perfectly exploiting weaknesses in enemy shields. It looked like the computers were executing precisely coordinated attacks from multiple angles, in order to put the target's shields under maximum stress.

[@Tyranidus7]

To defend the Prometheus a bit, one thing I think we're all forgetting is that Riker in one of the first successful battles against the Borg used the saucer separation feature to confuse and rout the Borg. Prometheus was obviously designed during the anti-Borg campaign of Starfleet so they probably pushed the concept so far in the hope that separation tactics would continue to be effective against Borg, particularly Borg that are not being overseen by the Queen and are just running on Drone algorithms that can be easily lead and confused.

[@NashmanNash]

The Borg Queen was a later concept added for plot reasons though...Nothing implied her existence before First Contact

[@SiXiam]

@@NashmanNash I thought they hinted at it with the insect similarities.

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@SiXiam, Insects have queens because of biology. The Borg doesn't need a "Queen"... they can just assimilate another species or... just create a new member with their cloning technology.

[@Marinealver]

Could we get an episode on Starship Combat at FTL (Warp Speeds)? I know that most combat is done at velocities

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Already did kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmipi5t4rcmUb5osi=xFHMPqORWo7Jy8eX

[@speedy3749]

Ultimately it depends on where the writers would take it. But I see some tactical potential if the depiction of the technology is pushed in that direction: 1. Deny shield foucusing: A separated Prometheus can force a ship to maintain all sections of its shield at equal strength, weakening the overall shield strength. 2. Deny protection of damaged sections by maneuvers: In the same vein, if a section of a ship is damaged and loses shields, you can't turn it away from the separated Prometheus like you could with a single ship. 3. Triangulation: If the Prometheus has approrpiate sensors on all sections, you could separate them to spread out and effectively increase the size of the sensor by using it as a sensor array. That could help pinpoint weak signals and pursue hidden ships. There are sensor probes for that, but you could argue that there are sensors too large to fit on a probe. 4. Supply runs: If the Prometheus had the ability to send out just one section (we haven't seen configurations where two sections remaind docked and only one is sent out), you could send them out for resupply while maintaining a strong presence with the remaining two sections. So besides force projection, logistics may also be a factor. 5. Redundancy: Arguably, a Prometheus could loose 2 of its 3 warp cores and still limp home. The massive redundandcy by having 3 instances of each already redundant system would make it very resilient in long range missions. That alone could justify the cost. The damn thing could probably stay in warp while shutting down a warp core for maintenance, same for nacelles or any other system. 6. Exchanging parts between ships: If there is a group of Prometheus, you could use that for one of two purposes: A: Give up damaged sections of multiple ships to create a smaller group of fully intact ships. B: Distribute the sections of a damaged ships between ships in better shape to carry them while they are repaired with onboard means to avoid the loss of a ship. This could be more effective than towing, because there is direct physical access to the docked sections. So there are reasons to have this design, If the writers decided to accentuate those aspects in the depiction of combat and missions overall.

[@DrewWestPress]

No bruh… you’re not superior than all of us who like that ship. MVAM is a fantastic concept and is extremely useful. Now take several seats.

[@wedgeantillies66]

I found the Prometheus class to be a very interesting and intriguing concept with so much potential. With it being built during the dominion war, it could have been the federation answer to deal on with the swarm tactics of dominion fighter craft as well as let it do Hunter killer missions against isolated and larger enemy vessels.

[@balrighty3523]

10:33 Or, and just hear me out on this: the Prometheseus!

[@farshnuke]

Starfleet has its tech advantage because it uses its science and engineering advantage and sometimes prototypes fail. It's worth bearing in mind that the reason DS9 has the Defiant was that basically it was a big gun they had lying around as a failed prototype that could add some beef to the station so these prototypes can have their uses even when they fail. More specifically I could see a prometheus being a long range escort vessel since if you send a couple of them with an oberth then you've got a small squadron if shit turns sour. It's also a ship (3 ships) that could be piloted by two holograms. In a war when you're taking huge casualties, or when you're out in the sticks on a long range escort mission that's huge.

[@exc911ence_channel]

You certainly wouldn't want to accidentally fire the upper phasers on the lower section, or the lower phasers on the upper section while it's operating as a single vessel. Oops!

[@richardscathouse]

Star Fleet ships never make mistakes! Right, Mr. Riker? Right, Cmdr. Riker! 😢

[@AdamTehranchiYT]

Using the Prometheous as a patrol ship is inspired! Personally, I think of the multi-vector assault mode as a workaround to the carrier problem Star Trek has as a small starfighter just doesn't have the omph needed. Granted, a better solution would be to have a carrier filled with something like the defiant, but as a test bed it's not bad. Cheers

[@Jimir]

Prometheus's design ideas are neatly explained by one thing that was happening with Star Fleet fleet design at this time: Swarm tactics. The battle of Wolf 359 saw Star Fleet get its butt handed to it, and part of that issue wasn't just the ships, but also the tactics used in the fight, approaching the cube in predictable waves all on one side. Next time they engaged the Borg en masse they had switched to a swarm tactic, making it harder to hit the ships, making adaptability harder. The new ship designs helped, but so did the swarm. The fleet fought the borg for hours in that fight before the Enterprise arrived. Also, in the Dominion war, the Dominion also liked to use swarm tactics with their fighters. Star Fleet would have learned from that further in post battle analysis, and started integrating it more into their own doctrine. Finally, we see in Picard the use of computers to coordinate fleets of ships rather than individual ships controlling themselves. Obviously it was a problem in Picard, but you could argue the beginning of that started with the Prometheus's ability to control all three parts of itself simultaneously. One other point, we've seen Star Fleet show the ability to use separation mostly for utility purposes at this point (keeping civilians safely away, evacuating the ship), with limited combative use. It makes sense they might want to more thoroughly test the possibilities that separation could provide to determine if it does make sense to use more widely, or what edge situations it would be a good option for.

[@23GreyFox]

I like the Prometheus, i would re-design it a little. Otherwise it's a awesome ship.

[@RiffRift]

JUST BUILD THREE SHIPS!!

[@jasonsniderman7803]

Remember a phaser array is the sum of its individual elements. The tiny rear facing could be one. The main dorsal is about 8 each. So it can fire 8 rapid/simultaneous shots or a combined heavy beam. E-E does both against scimitar. E-D mostly did full array heavy beams

[@MysteryGoat]

The Prometheus has been my favorite ship since it debuted on Voyager. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 So my understanding for the Prometheus being realized is it was trying to do what they failed in doing with the Defiant. The Prometheus was not designed to fight the Dominion, it was supposed to be a long range tactical vessel to fight the Borg. Remember the Defiant was initially designed to do just that except they tried to put too much power into one little ship. I imagine as the flaws of the ship became apparent, the engineers began looking at other options which lead them down the path that you talked about, revisiting the separation concept. When looking at how the Borg go about assimilating a ship through the TNG lens, which is the only time StarFleet would have observed the action at this point, then separating the ship would have been one of best defenses against assimilation. The Borg appeared to only have one tractor beam so if the ship is caught it could separate itself and attack the cube's tractor and cutting beams. Then they could go on the offensive and suddenly a cube is fighting three targets instead of one. A tactical fighter would also explain the heavy forward facing firepower. Give it a faster turn radius, especially when separated, and rear weapons wouldn't be all that necessary. Also I don't believe the power levels would drop as dramatically when separated. I would expect a defiant style warp core used in the saucer section, possibly all three sections but I like to imagine they developed a special pillar style core that ran through the middle of the stardrive as usual but could then split in half. 😆 Either way I don't believe the power levels of the separated sections would be that of a Saber class. I feel they would be closer to that of a Defiant class if not on par. As far as the MVAM not being used farther into the future, perhaps the build process would have been too complicated to make it a standard feature on classes that didn't necessitate it. And for alien species we can just assume they hadn't been able to perfect the technology. Considering the Romulans needed to steal it instead of seeing them develop their own is enough proof of that.

[@ZS-bg7jo]

I believe that a true artist in the prose once described this ship as "the most deviantart, self insert fan fiction spaceship ever designed"" And... yeah, fair.

[@Audioholics]

Prometheus is a much more powerful ship than an Intrepid class. We saw it outperform a Nebula with ease and the Intrepid class isn't as powerful as a Nebula.

[@shanenolan5625]

I imagine the torpedoes can fire forward to hit aft . Torpedoes can be guided Im pretty sure the dominion battle ship could fire backwards. Promethus had four torpedo batteries. But it appears to be 12 photon and 4 quantum torpedoes or ( tricobalt ) 3 2 3 top 3 2 3 bottom. But i imagine you could maintain continuous salvo fire with phasers . And i believe they added defiant class phaser canon . ( fix forward) Admiral ross had one for his flag flag ship at the battle of cardassia i believe. Uss cerberus . ( flagship)

[@ReasonablySkeptic]

If you need to fight multiple enemies, instead of just sending out 1 ship with several shuttles, you can split the ship up into several bits. In cases of showing up and finding you need to be 3 places at once, YOU CAN BE. And if each separate ship is trying different combinations to find weaknesses in other ships or in their technology, 3 heads are better than 1. But i get it also comes with downsides. That's the tradeoffs we make in any choice.

[@joshuahadams]

I imagine its primary responsibility would be a rapid response vehicle. As a unit it would cruise at high speeds into a situation, effectively get three relatively large starships into a situation to cover something like an older _Miranda_ or _Oberth_ in trouble out in the middle of nowhere. Outside of that she could act as an extension of the _Intrepid_ plan as a long range surveyor. You could have her coast out to a region and have the saucer act as a bit of a mobile base as the other two study around her.

[@entropy11]

I feel like it was an offshoot of the idea that each section of a starship could be like, modular, which could really ease things like repair and refit. Someone did a huge line of cocaine and went "Ok but what if each section was a starship too" The Prometheus IIRC was a direct Borg response as well, where a lone ship was easily immobilized and crippled. It's also, essentially, 3 defiant-level attackers that can combine to form Voltron. You can do a lot with the power of 3 overtuned, compact warp cores. I think you're underplaying this around the 7:50 mark. These are 3 POTENT warp cores. I'd propose that fully assembled, the Prometheus has energy generation and firepower well within the same class as a SOVERIGN. This is as close as Starfleet gets to a purpose built warship. I think you're right in that the Prometheus did not have the tech to fully support its concept at the time it was built. Now, fast forward to 2410 though...

[@xell4701]

I love the Prometheus class and it’s a great example of Starfleet thinking outside the box

[@VestedUTuber]

Fun fact: in STO, later "Advanced Escorts" like the Hestia class forgo the Multi Vector Attack system in favor of having a built-in Riker Maneuver system. So in at least one future timeline, Starfleet acknowledges that the multi vector attack system isn't very useful. Many of the other advanced technologies, including its stupidly fast warp drive that could cross the galaxy in one tenth the amount of time Voyager could (I actually did the calculations, at Warp 9.995 it would take the USS Prometheus seven years to cross from the Delta Quadrant back to the Alpha Quadrant had it taken the same route as Voyager, vs Voyager's 70 years), made it into the production versions of the ship.

[@dragonsword7370]

I oft wonder, if the sections are each as powerful as a Jem'Hadar bug ship, the separation at least was probably set up to do ststem or sector patrols during the war. But, it's a case of too much, too soon, because your force projection with these costs too much. And the Federation had to cover parsecs of territory against incursions. That's my first thought.

[@dawfydd]

As Alnarra said i think its designed for when your facing either the Galor or a trio of Dominion bugs, Either way you can chase them down but if you engage the trio of buggies, you have them able to get behind you because your speed isn't used in the dog fight role destroyer ships can do in trek, so you catch up, split before engaging and each piece can engage and either hold off or disable a different target. You do also have an extra two torpedo tubes for harder targets only when the extra torpedos would help which i suspect would be rare... get a spread in each loader perhaps 3-4 in 6 launchers might even take down minor bases or installations, where 4 tubes might just not be enough. Which also makes me wonder why they didn't stuff a couple of extra tubes in there like the Akira was designed to have all over, but focused in a forward direction for knocking out escaping ships or siege on larger installations. For the weaker enemies, i think runabouts from a large galaxy class would be better lol I think Its made for a good border jump to chase down those raiding parties and dealing with them before they reach the safety of a starbase, But after the war that kind of ship just wasn't needed for the federation.

[@enterprise-h312]

3:37 I would say that you send a Prometheus-class if you want something hunted down. We have seen that in "Enterprise" decoys have been deployed by bounty hunters. So instead of falling for a decoy and your target getting away you instead "split up" the ship.

[@kevinnaber790]

The Prometheus was, like the Defiant, a research iteration based on the losses to the Zankethi, Klingons, Borg, and the threat of the Dominion. In the late 23rd century Starfleet launched the Constellation class, to be a fast response ship. However because they didn’t utilize shuttles or other small craft in a fighter role until the runabout and inspiration from the Marquis and Romulan/Reman tactics a single ship could be overwhelmed relatively easily like the Ambassador class Enterprise-C was or how a fast strike delivered a mortal blow to the Stargazer at Maxia.

[@ash470]

The ability of the Prometheus classes ability to split apart into properly functional sections does give a few other tactical options that I can think of: Given how popular ramming your enemy with a damaged ship has shown to be with this ship you get 2 pieces that can be rammed into ships and blown up while still giving you a third section to act as the escape lifeboat for the whole crew. I guess if the ship was being chased down by enemies it might be able to split and run getting some of the crew to safety (Perhaps more up to all the crew if you can manage to spoof/block their sensors enough and get one the sections away cleanly with all the crew on it.) Thirdly (because it feels better when things come in three's) When assigning ships their mission you wont always know if your single strong ship or a small squadron would be the optimal choice this ship allows you to adapt on the fly rather than carry on with a mission that your ill suited for due to poor ship assignment. Although to get that flexibility you have to sacrifice being better than your equivalent tonnage of single ship or squadron. (Being a Hybrid build as it is)

[@cropathfinder]

Prometheus is that "3 midgets with shotguns in a trench coat meme" except its 3 Defiant's here. I would actually give it props because it solves an issue with defiants and that is that they have to be used together to get the full usage out of them, here they are just together. Also in case of mass production you could even easily solve the loss of a missing section by just holding them in supply ready to just replace. Its a good concept for a "ganking " ship that the defiant didn't fully manage to fill fully. And hey if all else fails you can just use two sections to take out enemy ships kamikaze style. I also wanna say that this is underestimating the firepower and durability of the class as seen on screen, i think these are not just small destroyer level warp cores given the output we seen on, it also ignores the benefits of their impulse mobility these have for evasion and just for confusing enemy targeting systems, even if the phaser output was smaller there is something to be said for power of just keeping constant fire on target from multiple sources keeping a constant strain on shields,etc. That is also one of the points of the design, to attack from multiple vectors and when attacking heavy ships this can be devastating especially against less experienced crews/commanders as it can paralyze their command ability

[@mackenziebeeney3764]

The attrition argument is even better when you consider you can probably recover the damaged section and repair it, but you don’t keep the rest of the ship occupied with nothing and give it a replacement, while you fix the original to slap on someplace else.

[@andyperez8945]

Prometheus was an experimental ship hence the NX registry. Quad nacelles are for warp drifting. Not all 4 nacelles operate simultaneously. The purpose is to maintain high speeds longer by coasting. Cycling them gave the ship a longer high warp range.

[@Colin_]

Kind of like the old fashioned horse messengers who would have fresh horses placed in certain locations so they can swap a tired one for a rested one and continue their important journey.

[@bcn1gh7h4wk]

the strong point of the Prometheus is that it evens the field against wolf-pack tactics from forces such as the Klingons, the Cardassians or the Dominion. you try wolf-packing a Galaxy class, and it'd return fire from it's many weapon mounts, forcing you to retreat out of it's firing range. IT won't chase you, but YOU won't succeed at using pack tactics. with the Prometheus, not only can you return fire and shoo off unprepared attackers, you can chase off and engage each one individually *away* from the pack, turning the many-vs-1 scenario into many individual 1-v-1 fights. a seasoned commander would still take the many separate 1-v-1 fights and direct each one separately to success (especially the Klingons) but a more haphazardly commander would see the main scenario challenged and simply call a retreat. it was OK as a surprise gimmick... but once word gets out that you CAN defend against pack tactics, you've lost the edge. this would only be effective against Romulans who prefer to be stealthy and are better at that when on their own. if you can spot a lone Romulan failing at being stealthy, you can easily outnumber it. a squadron of Romulan battleships was a thing last seen at Narendra III, and that cost the Romulans half the quadrant for 30 years.... so, you can be sure they ain't trying the same thing again.

[@AlexanderJamesMusic]

This is a really interesting take on an otherwise-overwrought and extremely silly design. I'm really enjoying your deep dives.

[@andrewmalinowski6673]

To me the Prometheus was a well-designed craft based mostly on the aesthetic quality, but the lack of aft weapons is both a drawback and issue that would leave it vulnerable to sudden rear ambushes. When the episode had come out I was impressed by the design and admired it for the fact it was both streamlined and looked advanced enough to look like an improved vessel Starfleet could use, but felt like it was also limited. Maybe it was just me, but I considered it both a good design and tactically weak to the point I'd devised an in-universe "upgrade" that would possess a specialized defense system akin to a phaser for better tactical defense to give the Beta and Gamma sections improved field of fire

[@gregstephens2755]

"The ability to swap out damaged sections and get back in the fight". I don't think that makes sense either. That would require having many spares of each flavor stockpiled somewhere, and if you're going to have that then why not just assemble the spare sections into functional ships beforehand? And if the upper or lower sections were damaged or destroyed, the two remaining pieces could reassemble but what if the middle section is lost? I don't see the upper and lower sections being able to mate up without the middle piece. The entire thing just follows the rule of cool and makes less sense the more you think about it

[@MediumRareOpinions]

This was a thought I had, if damage prevents docking, do all three have to limp home at low warp?

[@paulkirby2761]

Off all the Trek writers evolutions about what a future star ship should feature, I think the Prometheus design philosophy of a ship featuring two smaller warp cores and two sets of warp engines that can split into two vessels with a warp core each and two warp engines each is an idea I like the most. Forget warships for a minute. If we think space travel, one thing we simply must strive towards including which we do even nowadays, is including redundant systems, backups, options and the more the better! Space is an extremely inhospitable place, unforgiving, lethal and that's before you even leave orbit let alone travel lightyears away. So naturally you want at least two of everything essential if not more! Within realistic expectations obviously. So that's what I love most about a Prometheus style design. In a crisis situation, it's not good enough just to be able to eject a critical warp core into space or to evacuate everyone into a saucer section that can then separate to safety. No, you need to be able to get everyone back home again. That was a serious design flaw with the likes of a Galaxy Class, Nebula, even an Excelsior and possibly some of designs. If you're reduced to impulse speed only then you're completely reliant(no pun intended) on assistance which given the vast distances of space is never a good situation to be and therfore a huge design flaw without overlooking how better a situation it would be being stuck in an large and spacious saucer section compared to being stuck for weeks or months in some grotty little escape pod. I'm not sure what warp speed translated into in Trek but it was unimaginably faster than sub-lightspeed impulse! It was the difference between getting home in weeks or months vs not getting home at or, nor anywhere close! So ya, a big thumbs up to the Prometheus style design philosophy that included redundancy whereby even if a warp core had to be ejected into space or if the ship had to split that at least two of the separated vessels had a warp core and engines, so they were still getting home and not hoping for someone to come rescue them. Even if the reason for separation was combat related, if the fight was unwinnable then it was still able to evacuate most the non-essential crew to safety at warp speed while the skeleton crew on the heavily automated other section bought time for them to escape by fighting and making the ultimate and heroic sacrifice whereas a Galaxy couldn't do that. With a Galaxy, the combat hull included the warp core and engines so even if all the non-essential crew was safely evacuated to the saucer and separated, those on the saucer were kinda screwed and easily caught up to should the battle hull lose the fight. No, 10/10 to the Prometheus design in that area, and should have been more for scientific and exploration vessels more than warships ironically.

[@nathanielbraun2878]

Something I don't see mentioned is that the Prometheus is the M5 project from TOS without the personality issues. If it is cheap enough to build in quantity you technically only need one person per ship for a whole fleet of these things if all you need is a QRF of some type.

[@joshpetersen5968]

My head canon for the Prometheus is that Starfleet wanted a ship to eventually replace the Cheyenne class, but it needed to be "better" so the Starfleet Corps of Engineers basically threw EVERYTHING at the wall, and came up with the Prototype USS Prometheus. Once Starfleet got it back from the Romulans(and after some tests) they determined that the ship, while extremely capable, was over complex and not as efficient as it could've been. So if/when the class is actually put into production it'll be a more reasonable version, likely sacrificing the full multi vector assault mode for a more typical two section separation maybe the forward wedge section, with the the divide between the lover sections being eliminated and a simplified warp core.

[@wotertool]

I don't think SF would decide against the Prometheus, but had they, I heavily doubt a "refit" would have come out of it. Mass producing the Defiant as the main swarm ship is the answer, rather then investing even more time in a, by then, failed prototype.

[@occultatumquaestio5226]

I think the Prometheus is okay for what it is. Interestingly, like its namesake, it brings about new concepts, ideas, and tech, but ends up getting punished for it. As for potential future uses, we do see in one timeline the class enduring till the 26th century. So, who knows what developments it can bring when the logistics catch up with it.

[@davfree9732]

I kinda see her as a concept car that serves to perfect Picards Emergency Saucer separation in the pilot episode. And since it's Starfleet core of engineers, they pushed the concept to 11.

[@geislar7682]

One of the abandoned potentials of the class was the future proofing for alternative roles due to its modularity. A single section could be swapped that respecialized the prometheus for a particular role for a particular mission or enemy

[@bradreviews]

It might do well in search and rescue missions where speed is important in reaching a destination and having multiple ships scanning an area is important as well

[@Dreamfox-df6bg]

Any Prometheus on solo mission must be very careful when separating. Several smaller attackers may always be a trap wanting them to separate, only to bring in bigger guns and focus their fire on one section of the ship. And there might be situations where they have to separate. But no matter how real or fake the situation is, it could always be a trap. Working as escorts for bigger ships is when this feature can be useful, but as mentioned, they could build several ships from other classes for the same resources and being more flexible at the same time if the goals are further apart. You can easily send a Saber ahead to check a region and it would be tragic if it flies into a trap. But send a section of a Prometheus ahead and it gets destroyed? That will influence the crews of the other two sections. Same goes when a section is cut off and the flotilla has to retreat, leaving the section behind. Such decisions are hard enough when it's one ship, but leaving a part of you behind? Which is why the Galaxy-Class leaving the saucer section behind can be such a mixed bag as well. Without a warp drive it is a sitting duck should more enemies or other dangers show up.

[@SuperGamefreak18]

like a few other people said and I agree with you on, Prometheus is a good niche ship, especially during wartime. A great prototype class but long term too niche to be trying reliable. When technology becomes more efficent and miniatures enough that its seperate pieces can be reliable then a ship like the Prometheus class would be a great tool in the fleet. When the Prometheus was built however its basically the exclesior of its time at best, even if the sovereign is more the ship to take up the excelsior's oringal role, yes I know the variants exists lol

[@adamlytle2615]

I've often wondered if a more cost effective version of this would have been something like a slightly upsized Cheyenne class, but it somehow docks 4 Defiant class ships. Basically a carrier for "tactical escorts" to increse their speed and range. The mother ship would also allow for more luxurious crew quarters and recreational facilities to give people a break from the spartan accommodations on the Defiant class ships.

[@merafirewing6591]

The only ship in the fleet that has been manned by two EMHs, I found the banter between the two very funny while the Prometheus beats up the big piñata that is the D'Deridex class Warbird.

[@MetaSynForYourSoul]

My dream has always been a ship that combines all the one-off technologies we saw in Star Trek. A Prometheus class ship with the built on vector assault mode, phase cloak, temporal shields, chronoton torpedoes, the works! Combine everything in one Rogue ship. Actually that was the idea for the show: A Starfleet officer, with the most advanced ship in the fleet goes rogue with his crew. Giving him the multi vector mode would just be a way to level the playing field when he's gotta take on the whole of Starfleet. And the idea for the show is he revisits all the places where this tech was lost, kind of picking it up and incorporating it along the way. I think that there's so much cool stuff you could do narratively that it may just get you by the inherent silliness of a ship designed like this. I mean you could have each section have like it's own default captain when they separate and let's say middle section decides to go even more rogue. Then they gotta get the middle section back under control while dodging Starfleet in their more vulnerable state. Or if say Starfleet was able to use a computer virus to take over 2 of the sections and shut them down while the last section had to work to get the other 2 back up and running before the escorts arrive. Just so many things I can think of to do with it.

[@julonkrutor4649]

The idea of a modular ship is good. Modern tanks have that - sort of. You do not fix the engine close to the front, you replace it, send the damaged one back far behind the lines and fix it then. I could see a starship build in that way - but it would demand extrem small tolerances. Basically every ship has to be the same … or at least as many of the components. When it comes to maintenance and production, that would be awesome. You could even build as many ships with the same set of components as you can. From a performance standpoint… adequate at best. In wartime or for patrols, yes. For your science ships and big, flashy ships of the line - only were it dose not come at the cost of performance.

[@drksideofthewal]

The Defiant proved that a smaller form factor is more effective for combat, with high evasion (also known as "speed tanking" in RPGs) as well as more efficient shielding that doesn't have to cover as much surface area. The only weakness of the Defiant was its range, Starfleet needed a vessel for, "long range tactical assignments." So, they took three Defiants, wrapped them in a trench coat, and put them on a Warp Sled. That's the Prometheus. Furthermore, Star Trek combat works by always keeping your strongest shield facing your opponent... impossible to do when you're attacking from multiple vectors.

[@corrinestenman5683]

The Prometheus feels like it was part of a greater testbed program rather than an isolated development. I can see Starfleet starting work on a bunch of experimental designs (mostly in the destroyer and light cruiser size range) in the years leading up to the Dominion War, stuff that was designed to test some tactical concepts. Sort of throwing ideas at the wall and seeing what stuck, and the Prometheus was one that happened to be finished in the opening months of the war; I'd expect others to have been finished and tested, but I also don't think all of them would have been.

[@firebirdone03]

3 Defint class overpowered warp cores and computer cores solves those problems.

[@nataschajordan6053]

point of the prometheus is its a LONG RANGE tactical vessel - so you dont have to send out 3-4 ships - but ONE - one where there is very few crew cause of heavy automation, as we've seen in the episode.

[@Avtarangel]

In normal operation you have a medium tactical cruiser, in MVA mode you instantly have a small wolf pack

[@joearmstrong2404]

I could see Scotty written all over it. The sheer scope of the automation, it hasn't been seen since the NCC1701 on the way to Planet Genesis. Warp coasting ability that reduced wear on the engines while going high warp. Scotty was also told stories about separation and reintegration of the saucer section. The reports about how the separation was instrumental against the Borg may have something to do with the design.

[@KashouWannabe]

I was always under the impression that the Prometheus was strictly an Anti-Borg vessel. We have seen how sporadic, large scale bombardment can not only damage/slow down a Cube but also confuse its targeting priorities. But the thing never went beyond shakedowns.

[@detpackman]

i always saw the prometheus as a force multiplier ship . she can be a cruiser when needed or a attack wing all on her own , with her automation she also needed less crew or you could have a coordinated crews if there is a issue with the automation systems

[@jackphilipsen452]

I see an other application for this ship. When fleeing away from a stronger ship. you can split up and run in diffrent direction. That let the persuder have to make a choise witch ship to follow. An other application of the prometeus is that you explore/scout out a region with one ship and let the other two ships stay in a safe distance

[@autocon2002]

My conclusion is that the Prometheus was tailor-made to fight the Dominion, specifically massive fleet actions against Jem Hadar battleships which never go anywhere without massive support groups of Attack Ships. Combined, the Prometheus is a rapid-response cruiser. Separated upon contact with the enemy, it quite literally multiplies the vectors of attack with automated, computer-syncronized precision. Jem Hadar ships are coordinated by a fleet's First or a Vorta or even a Founder, likely to be in the largest ship. In such a fleet battle, severing the head of the command structure would cause disarray in a Jem Hadar fleet-- even cause mass panic if it was a Founder since gods aren't supposed to be able to die. Given the right situation, this could be a battleship killer purely by being able to do the unexpected and with coordination not necessarily possible with organic crews.