The Psychological Drivers of the Metacrisis: John Vervaeke Iain McGilchrist Daniel Schmachtenberger

[@danquigley7285]

As someone who hit their late teens just as the internet as we know it exploded, and has spent the past 15 years consuming this 'lane' of content particularly, I have to say; this talk is one of the most valuable things the digital age has ever provided, for me personally at least. Crazy to think this caliber of dialogue is freely available to everyone. I would pay good money for an entire semester's worth of conversations between these three individuals. I'll be back again to take notes!

[@CariMachet]

The internet is absolutely NOT available to everyone >>> outrageous statement disgusting even > please travel

[@danquigley7285]

@@CariMachet Well you sure showed me. How smart you must be, nitpicking a turn of phrase to make a facetious point. Obviously I was referring to people who would have a ready interest in seeking out this kind of content, not every single human being on the planet. Unless of course you deliberately miss my intention just to launch some bizarre disingenuous attack on a stranger on the internet. Disgusting, am I? How fucking dare you. I've travelled plenty, thank you very much.

[@bobwilkinsonguitar6142]

​@@CariMachet Its available to most people. Pedantic. Left brain dominant Luciferian nonsense.

[@nodakrome]

​@@CariMachet"dialogue of this caliber are available freely" is the main point, not yours. Anyone who has a connection has access to this, free or paid. There is no other gatekeeper.

[@jaysphilosophy1951]

​@@nodakromeNot everyone has access. And gatekeepers exist no matter the platform.

[@PeterDangler91]

I sincerely hope that Daniel or his team are reading this; this was the first talk/conversation i saw where Daniel was the moderator of the conversation. Having seen countless talks of him being a guest, I want to say that he is fantastic and keeping the flow of a difficult conversation going without loosing the thread, i loved how he earned the mutual respect of both Ian and John shortly after the opening statements. I wish that Daniel continues to invite thinkers like Ian and John for conversations like this. Many thanks from the bottom of my heart, i was glued to the screen from beginning to end, took many notes, much to take away from/wrestle with.

[@augustusarbogast9862]

Same here. I think they'd met prior to this, though, as both John and Iain talk about their talks at the Consilience Conference (wish I had an invite!). I will be busting out the note-taking device on my next listen.

[@crbradbury8282]

Well said friend!

[@jamiesalmonsculpture8599]

Daniel should be appointed as PM of Canada!

[@missshroom5512]

Big ditto! More More More😁🎄👍🏼💙

[@kenneld]

I agree. When he was on Nate Hagen's podcast he flipped it around at points and interviewed Nate and did a really superb job. He's incredibly good at clarifying and re-contextualizing other people's ideas.

[@jeremyj427]

This was amazing and maybe the best thing I’ve seen on KZbin. Thanks to the 3 of you and every commenter and viewer. Look at how many of us are here - the moral responsibility of attention. Dear God. Let’s save this place.

[@anthonybremner-kk9rq]

Mcgilchrist and Vervaeke together again is a dream - I literally shouted “yes” when this came up in my feed. Thank you to two men who have done so much to help us towards wisdom.

[@j.rivermartin3412]

Schmachtenberger shined with equal brightness, at least!

[@woodandwandco]

@@j.rivermartin3412 He is indeed the perfect moderator and co-creator of this high-level conversation

[@damienpace7350]

John is a real gentleman. I've talked to him on Zoom.

[@suneasmussen2650]

Finally. For several years now, I have been violently longing for especially Schmachtenberger to not merely 'diagnose' but also open the vulnerable flank of daring to dabble in potential solutions to the metacrisis. Obviously, I totally get the courage that it takes because of the inherent potential of loss of reputation in the eyes of your peers as it opens you up to being called naïve by the cynics. Thank you all three for finally mustering that courage. We need so much more of this and we need it across all levels of society and culture, not just amongst hyper-intellectuals in a wood paneled room.

[@damien1166]

I think everyone is waiting for someone else to start the process of change

[@suneasmussen2650]

@@iamkata Diagnostics is absolutely essential to the solution of any problem. No one, as far as I can tell, have claimed otherwise :)

[@netscrooge]

To a large extent, the solutions already exist. For example, Quakers have practices that could help.

[@shannondelima3028]

@@netscrooge It might be possible, and desirable, for communities to become sovereign and self sustaining, aside from the nation state in which they reside. Hi tech but off grid kinda, and everyone lives like that. Just 1000s of high-tech hubs/villages. The decentralization would make us less vulnerable to attack, and also more resilient as a whole if we splintered into ultra high functioning sub groups...instead of one giant centralized blob of humanity on the world stage, tasked with moral leadership of the whole but is just always 1 decision (or two) away from complete chaos and self destruction.

[@suneasmussen2650]

@@damien1166 I suspect, rather, many people are not as much waiting for others to begin the process as much as we are confused about what to do and where to start. The thing is we are dealing with an 8.000.000.000 people culture saturated in ignorance, nested in a rivalrist/capitalist paradigm. We both don't know what to do and we are afraid to let go of the cynicism behind which we shield ourselves from the despair of not only living in, but also being an integrated part of, a profoundly sick society.

[@rttptt3710]

This was amazingly good. It puts my university lectures to shame, they're not even comparable. What a time to be alive.

[@AugustNightingale]

Yet university used to be like this once upon a time. Before all this bean counting, all this administration, procedural, quantification and student-feedback-driven, results-driven teaching that stifles us. As Iain says, let’s teach creative empathic understanding of others through literature, film, history, philosophy, theology. And also maths and science, but all in balance.

[@audrajones]

We do live in terrible, but marvelous times! Mind expanding

[@johncaccioppo1142]

Very little discussion occurs on the nature of neoliberal steering in academia. The fact that it's been going on for over a century and yet we keep hearing about what leftist nightmares universities are should be a clear indication of what kind of world we live in and how little control honest intellectuals have over the daily news cycle.

[@TheHangedMan]

Holy crap... three of my favorite thinkers, together in the same room for hours. This is incredible

[@yesimyemenici7587]

I know right!!!!!!!!

[@robtallon9927]

Same. So excited for the evolution of the consilience project.

[@mabaker]

I wonder why they never mentioned J.Krishnamurti as he himself spoke for years and years about "the sacred" with David Bohm. I think it would be worthwhile to capitalise on their conversations.

[@danielnelson3136]

Yes, Daniel Schmachtenberger in particular is really good framing topics and speaking in consistent pacing. Iain McGilchrist is good ondiscussin, slow pacing and good thoughts through his neuroscience and brain, and psychology. Similarly to John Veraeke in another psychological take of the Meta crisis although he's using way too many illustrators, pointy fingers and prayer/stippling. Really good conversation although even for me some of it flies by.🤣🤣😂😂

[@albertodesantis739]

I have never heard of John and Iain. I also like Nate Hagens and all of his guests. I also like Vandana Shiva, Zach Bush and Stephanie Seneff

[@Changeinnovation]

Please bring this trio together again to further this conversation--Absolutely wonderful

[@Abedeidt]

This video deserves to be seen by virtually everyone on KZbin.

[@Abecenna]

Very much so!

[@benk.psy32]

This is surreal. When I saw this I teared up and my heart started palpitating faster than light to the point of near combustion. Thank you so much sir, for allowing two of the greatest thinkers of our time to discuss face-to-face for the first time. Thank you

[@F--B]

You teared up? Christ almighty.

[@benk.psy32]

​@@F--B call it child-like passion if you will, even naivety if you so like, but I honestly feel privilliged to be alive at a time in which my mentors are not only alive, but converse and exchange ideas and thoughts. I find it remarkable and truly awe-inspiring.

[@OfficialGOD]

i get it yeah

[@pascal8306]

They’ve actually had a conversation already prior to this. It’s on the ‘theories of everything podcast’.

[@zardi9083]

Get some fresh air.

[@levcimac]

The most important thing I got from this conversation is a sense of relief and reassurance that it's not just me who feels that the world is operating upside down, with consumerist and utilitarian values taking a dominant role. It's also reasuring to hear their perspectives on how we get right side up via wisdom, and the necessary discernment and skillfulness required to create the right conditions. Thanks, fellas. Now I have a better sense of the creative tension one needs to attune to, to just stay sane at this time in the world.

[@ronalddecker8498]

The world is indeed upside down. Daniel Schmachtenberger often quotes Krishnamurti “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” I agree about your sense of relief to listen to these men speak. I hope a more diverse group of people join in this discussion.

[@wandaacat]

I love that Krishnamurti quote! - it comforts me whenever I feel out of sorts with the maistream 'narrative'... Reminding me that of course I would feel out of sorts? Everything IS upside down, and a feeling human, living within a living planet can not feel that it is all okay.

[@garypuckettmuse]

it's definitely not just you. that would be so special if true.

[@STUNGBYSPLENDOR]

Deeply grateful for what was made possible to be said here. Trinity concrescence at work, with curiosity, reverence and vulnerability. I cannot not underline the fact that Daniel is "unschooled". His art of hosting and prompting in this time between worlds is "evidence of things unseen and substance of things hoped for". I have seen countless hours of conversation with both his guests, and rarely came away with the enlivenment these 3.5 hours created in me. Humbly I suggest that Daniel continue EARNESTLY to host these conversations. With permission I suggest some of the sages that I would love to see gathered in triads of inquiry: Fred Moten & Stephano Harney, Alexander Bard & Bonnitta Roy, Dave Snowden & Nora Bateson, Bayo Akomolafe & Erin Manning, Tim Norton & Rosi Braidotti, Vinay Gupta & Patrick Ryan, Yuk Hui & Audrey Tang, Monika Bielskyte & Phoebe Tickell, Franz Lanz & Jonathan Rowson, Sophie Strand & Emanuele Coccia, Frederico Campagna & Daniel Tutt, Alok & McKenzie Wark, Astra Taylor & Denise Ferreira da Silva, Simon Crichley & Cadell Last, Alex Ebert & Johannes Niederhauser, Marina Garcés & Vanessa Andreotti, Varoufakis & Erik Bordeleau, Gabor Maté & Daniel Fraga, Ariela Azoulay & Eva Illouz. etc, etc, etc inexhaustible triads only limited by the English Language.... harvesting improbable consensus... one conversation at a time feeding A.I. with symbiotic antagonism (my name for opponent processing) towards 21st Century wisdom of "Difference without Separability" (Denise Ferreira da Silva). “For there are no new ideas. There are only new ways of making them felt - of examining what those ideas feel like being lived on Sunday morning at 7 A.M., after brunch, during wild love, making war, giving birth, mourning our dead - while we suffer the old longings, battle the old warnings and fears of being silent and impotent and alone, while we taste new possibilities and strengths.” Audre Lorde

[@plaiche]

🙏🏼

[@Cnrshoe3]

@stungbysplendor would you mind telling me who's quote is Trinity concrescence at work, with curiosity, reverence and vulnerability? Perhaps it is yours and If so I would like your name so I can cite it in my journal. Thank you for sharing

[@joseph8468]

Greatly impressed by your comment, your suggested interview subjects, and your KZbin name. It reminded me of C.S. Lewis' "Surprised by Joy." Thank you.

[@STUNGBYSPLENDOR]

​@@Cnrshoe3thank you for resonating, my name is Madalena Machado, it is my wording with the thought of multitudes.

[@Osoznannost.]

I'm so excited about the idea of going local. This is something my husband and I have been doing with our autonomous home and vegetable garden for a few years now. Not only do our house and our family thrive, but the whole natural area around us, and the community as well. It is so paradoxical, yet so effective. And now these intelligent men are confirming our intuition, wow! I also told my husband the story about humanity's purpose being 'repairing', and as a handyman, he was fulfilled beyond limits.

[@Hippida]

'Love isn't an emotion. It's a way of binding my self to another person' I Love this quote. This is exactly how I found love, and understand Love. I don't love you. Love is pointing it's finger to you, and as long as it is, I am Never letting go. Finding love, the creative stream of creation, is the most substantial discovery of my Life !

[@AaronLance]

I'm so grateful to the three of you for finding the time to get together and share this conversation with us. Thank you!

[@Heart-Core]

This is probably the most intelligent conversation in content & form I have ever listened to❣️

[@MichaelHrostoskiCreates]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🌐 *The discussion revolves around the Psychological Drivers of the Metacrisis and potential responses.* 01:18 🌍 *The metacrisis is characterized by global risks and challenges, unprecedented in history, arising from technological advancements.* 02:40 🚀 *Powerful technologies like nuclear weapons, AI, synthetic biology, and global supply chains contribute to the metacrisis.* 04:32 🔄 *The polycrisis perspective emphasizes the interconnectedness of various issues, cautioning that solutions to one problem may exacerbate others.* 05:30 🌐 *The metacrisis is rooted in the unique ability of humans, driven by technology shaped by the human mind, to impact the environment on a global scale.* 09:35 🔍 *McGilchrist explores the left hemisphere's focus on abstraction and categorization vs. the right hemisphere's holistic, context-aware perception.* 20:28 🌐 *Schmachtenberger raises the question of why the emissary (left hemisphere) became dominant in global civilization relative to the master (right hemisphere).* 24:58 💀 *The prevalence of zombies in culture symbolizes the meaning crisis, representing individuals living meaningless lives, disconnected and decayed.* 27:39 🧘 *Positive responses to the meaning crisis include the mindfulness revolution, interest in ancient wisdom philosophies, and exploration of Asiatic philosophies that integrate knowledge and wisdom.* 28:59 🎮 *Video games provide narrative, normative, nomological, and flow structures, offering insights into what's missing in real-world meaning.* 31:12 🧠 *General intelligence reflects the ability to solve problems by having or becoming something, addressing two meta-problems: anticipation of the world and dealing with the explosion of information possibilities.* 40:25 🔄 *The discussion shifts to the etiology of ubiquitous meaninglessness, exploring the relationship between psychological phenomena and objective environmental challenges like nuclear risk, AI, and economic issues.* 43:31 🎯 *The recovery of Neoplatonism, emphasizing polarity over poles, using the Greek word "tonos" for tension.* 44:00 🧘‍♂️ *Anxiety and depression are not the same; anxiety is not lateralized, while depression can be linked to unbalanced activity in specific brain regions.* 52:11 🚀 *Aspiration and rationality are intertwined; aspirational projects involve binding oneself to a future self through imagination.* 56:26 🌐 *Subjective-objective divide challenged; everything comes into being as a relation, emphasizing encounter, experience, love, and valuing.* 01:00:58 🌈 *Hierarchy of values from utility to the sacred; left hemisphere dominance tends to focus on utility, missing higher-level values.* 01:15:42 🔀 *Sociopathic defection, driven by short-term power goals, undermines the pursuit of collective well-being and meaningful life. Overcoming this requires fostering a sense of belonging to a just world and emphasizing values beyond immediate gain.* 01:30:56 🔄 *Religions, while embodying the sacred, often get corrupted by power-seeking individuals, leading to a mixed impact on civilization.* 01:32:43 🔄 *Despite challenges, there's hope in preserving cultural cognitive grammar and focusing on what remains across power shifts.* 01:40:02 🔄 *There's an ethical obligation for those valuing the sacred and wisdom to engage with power responsibly, preventing its misuse.* 01:44:39 🤔 *Plato's seduction involves engaging the left hemisphere in arguments and discussions, using that process to draw attention to non-propositional elements and the importance of character development.* 01:45:32 💬 *Dialogical practices, resembling Platonic anamnesis, can lead to a sense of intimacy and connection with the collective "we" or the logos, prompting individuals to undergo a Platonic pivot.* 01:46:54 🤖 *Logic's compulsory nature contrasts with the inability to compel wisdom and love, emphasizing the importance of vulnerability in pursuing these qualities.* 02:00:38 🔄 *The mixed bag nature of humanity, capable of both beautiful and horrific actions, is explored, with a focus on the vulnerability of our relationship to the sacred and the need for a fundamentally different approach to ethics and choice.* 02:02:51 ⚖️ *Increased coordination within in-groups, coupled with competition with out-groups, creates a challenging game theory, leading to potential conflicts in the use of technological power.* 02:06:54 🔄 *Exaptive solutions are necessary, repurposing past elements like religion, to address the unprecedented challenges posed by evolving technology and its potential misuse.* 02:11:35 🤝 *Wisdom at the scale needed to prevent self-destruction requires rethinking the relationship between power, wisdom, and technology on a global scale.* 02:15:13 🔄 *Exapting elements from the past, such as Neoplatonism and Zen, could provide a deep grammar for large-scale reconceptions of fundamental human understanding.* 02:28:37 🌌 *Whiteheadian idea of creation: McGilchrist discusses a Whiteheadian idea where the divine Ground of Being is not passive but interacts with creation, suggesting that humans play a role in the ongoing evolution and fulfillment of the divine.* 02:30:50 ⚖️ *McGilchrist’s Wager: McGilchrist proposes a concept similar to Pascal's Wager, suggesting that humans may play a role in the development and evolution of the divine, presenting an ennobling obligation to contribute positively to the world.* 02:33:09 🌱 *Optimistic view of the cosmos: Despite skepticism, McGilchrist expresses an optimistic view of the cosmos, indicating that humans, through their relationships and actions, can bring hope and dignity to the human condition.* 02:34:21 🌐 *Global synthesis of wisdom: John Vervaeke proposes a global synthesis of wisdom, drawing from Neoplatonism, Kabbalah, Sufism, and Eastern philosophies, aiming for a pluralistic approach that enriches various religious and philosophical traditions.* 02:43:11 🧠 *Hemispheric dominance and scaling: The discussion explores the connection between hemispheric dominance, scaling, and the challenges of addressing global issues without losing uniqueness and local instantiation.* 02:44:54 🌐 *Panentheism and reverence: McGilchrist expresses his panentheistic views, emphasizing the importance of seeing God in everything (panentheism) rather than God being everything (pantheism). This perspective fosters reverence and could potentially reduce conflicts between religious groups.* 02:53:23 🌐 *Emergence of a new religion: The discussion explores the idea of a "new religion" emerging, not necessarily to replace existing religions but to reify and reinterpret them in ways that address contemporary challenges such as ecological overshoot, planetary boundaries, and technological advancements.* 02:58:03 🤔 *Reification of religions and philosophical traditions: The conversation touches on the reification of existing religions and the development of new philosophical traditions. It explores how these meta-dynamics can contribute to wisdom, ecological stewardship, and aligning human values with societal structures.* 03:00:37 🏛️ *Institutions and wisdom development: Addressing the practical aspect, the discussion emphasizes the need to create ecologies of practices within communities before reforming education. This involves changing the lived normativity of cultures to avoid education reforms being co-opted by existing systems.* 03:05:30 🌐 *Education should encompass history, literature, philosophy, music, and culture, fostering creative, empathic understanding. The emphasis on IT and procedural learning should be balanced with a broader, more holistic approach.* 03:08:45 🤝 *Synoptic integration: Advocating for individuals overseeing the whole picture, bridging gaps between disciplines, and recognizing the value of synoptic integrators alongside specialists in areas like cognitive science.* 03:15:08 🌍 *Orientation and agency: Encouraging a sense of hope, duty, and action. Emphasizing the duty to further larger causes and contribute in ways that align with personal strengths, advocating against despair.* 03:16:57 💖 *Love of wisdom and being: Highlighting the real possibilities of falling in love with being, emphasizing the reciprocal opening of possibilities over the reciprocal narrowing associated with addiction. Plato's concept of anagoge is referenced.* 03:17:53 🌌 *Epistemic humility: Stressing the importance of holding mystery and the unknowable at the center, promoting an epistemic humility that comes from being open to both the overwhelming beauty and suffering present in reality.* 03:19:12 🌟 *Sacred obligation: Connecting the sense of sacred obligation to protecting reality with clear seeing, being moved by the beauty of reality, and fostering a protective impulse towards the sacredness and meaningfulness of existence.*

[@crystaldragonwoman]

Thank you 🎉for the generous kindness of your timestamps 🙏🏽

[@ronalddecker8498]

Thank you for the descriptions!!

[@kevanmccutcheon7351]

Kind service!

[@brucemah609]

Wow❤ Thank you so much for breaking it down so it's more understandable ❤

[@hcrone]

So helpful. Many thanks.

[@ajay4319]

What a compelling conversation this was! Great job all three of you. I hope you guys meet again for another conversation.

[@tinychapter.]

Literally all I want to gift my family and friends this Christmas is a mandated sit-down-shut-the-fuck-up-and-watch of this outrageously riveting conversation.

[@RyanOwensTampa]

Please deepen this conversation - I’m a 39 year old millennial that is being empowered by this type of conversation and intelligent discussion of such humanly important matters. I’m in to learn more and take action. As a right brained person and father open to possibilities and growth, I would love to learn more very soon.

[@crowlsyong]

39:35 This is what conversation manners are all about- gentleman wants to respond but bookmarks his thoughts and allows Daniel to have a word first. It's a breathe of fresh air. Thank you for being good conversationalists. The kindness of y'all makes me smile real big.

[@jessewest2109]

Jordan peterson should take some notes here

[@crowlsyong]

2:09:34 another great example of good conversation mechanics in action. thank you.

[@ShanePHanlon]

Finally!! The consilience project has made their own channel! This is a big day!🎉 If help is ever needed for film/design I’d be happy to contribute :)

[@ombranagan]

www.youtube.com/@theconsilienceproject7636

[@ronalddecker8498]

I look forward to more videos put on this channel!!!

[@jessewest2109]

I can do the music!

[@TraceBell]

Thank you for making this discussion between these brilliant humans happen

[@jmsvn]

I cannot fathom how important this is for me and for the world. This has the potential to change lives. What a wonderful time to be alive. Thanks to the three of you to have made this happen.

[@jamiesonlittle6581]

I'd like to express my deep gratitude and appreciation for the work of these three great people who have taught me so much over the last 4 years. I think the scale and complexity of the challenges facing humanity are also contributing to a sense of powerlessness and hopelessness. This discussion reminded me just how important it is to reconnect with my deep values, to not give up or become self-defeatist and to be inspired to at least try to be the change in the world I so desperately want to see. I know that there are things that I can do to create a difference or change, within my sphere of influence. Thank you for the inspiration. ❤

[@duanehirini2078]

I especially liked Vervanke when he said "Two questions. What is it that you want to continue existing after you die and what are you doing about it?" Was something like that but more eloquently put than I could ever accomplish. They definitely were powerful words.

[@ronalddecker8498]

What would you like to have continue after you die? Wow. My own thoughts on this led me to make a post on this comment thread. I hope my taking a risk of sharing thoughts sparks someone’s imagination. It is a difficult place to risk offering, but i hope others also offer their insights.

[@SaiPrashanthRF]

I'm out of words! Blessed to be able to imbibe the timeless wisdom of these sages. All I can say is: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Namaste!🙏

[@joev.8543]

I would, with no exaggeration, listen to hundreds of hours of this.

[@zamirdhanji2442]

It’s fascinating, basically what is being said is that spirituality is the meta-solution to the metacrisis

[@colinr.turner]

Incredibly illuminating conversation. Even more incredible for me given that their generally-agreed upon solution is quasi-religious in nature, a conclusion that I have also reached and and am currently assimilating into a new project. However I would say that we need a more 'middle-brow' version of this conversation if we are to inspire more people. The recognition of the divine and how it alters our ideas and expectations is neither new nor complicated. And it necessarily MUST be uncomplicated if we wish to avoid another paradigm of elite sages and blind followers. All followers of the new mode of thought must understand it as transparently as those who teach it, else it just creates more power levers. I too am delighted to see Daniel foraying into the solutions arena. His critique of *anything* is always mind-blowingly sharp and on-point-as they are necessarily empirical and retrospective. Whereas proposing solutions is future-blind, risky and requires leaps of faith and reasoning. I am sure he will know that solutions of all kinds are open invitations to cynics and every conceivable intellectual argument for 'why X won't work'. I hope that he proceeds on this path anyway as the sweeping solutions required needs giants like him to give us every chance of success.

[@aldebaranredstar]

Yes, proposing good solutions is important. How to motivate people to choose those good solutions is the question.

[@paulvanblom01]

A more midle-brow thinker and philosofer I find in Charles Eisenstein. In his talks or conversations no namedropping. He most certenly has read these excelent thinkers and translates it all into original and passionate new nerrative. A story of reconnecting to the sacred.

[@colinr.turner]

@@paulvanblom01 Yes, Charles is great. He seems to have dropped off the radar lately.

[@MLTHRON7542]

I will be listening to this video over and over. What would be really useful is an edited transcript of the conversation. This almost needs a background reading list.

[@rttptt3710]

If these kinds of conversations become a regular thing, it would be awesome to have a small background reading prepared and linked for each one.

[@j.rivermartin3412]

Check the show notes carefully. There is a transcript mentioned and linked to in the show notes.

[@tuneintolifewitharronselby]

This is one of the best discussions I've heard in 15-20 years of listening to talks and podcasts. I implore you to make this the first chapter of a Magnum Opus and continue this discussion up to the light from the deep rabbit hole we've culturally found ourselves stuck in.

[@augustswift5947]

A dark, holy season, a forgotten shining star and three sages approach…witnessing this dialogue was a gift. Thank you Daniel, John and Iain. (yes, please continue)

[@gpxavier]

An absolutely wonderful conversation between three of the greatest, most integrative, most hopeful minds for our civilization (I'm less familiar with Schmachtenberger but was really impressed). It's funny that McGilchrist and Vervaeke, despite having almost identical outlooks, continually thought they were contradicting each other. Not sure why that was, but I've seen it in a previous dialogue between the two as well.

[@50palmyra]

Absolutely need this group to get together again and pick up the thread. This was the best fleshed out I’ve ever scene John or Ian’s positions in an efficient way. Daniel keeps perfect track and absolutely needs to keep meditating these

[@13Nicozurdo]

I think that we, as a society, as a whole, need (as said in the description of the video) a few "far deeper conversationS recorded". This was beautiful, inspiring and wonderful to watch. I'm deeply honored that I'm alive at this time to be able to presence it

[@LivingMidnight]

This conversation left me energized and inspired. It's the kind of talk that I will probably listen to again, to highlight salient points and conflicts, etc. So little I come across feels important and relevant with the weight of the polycrisis bearing down on us but this definitely had my attention.

[@ronalddecker8498]

Isn’t it great to find people bravely facing the meta/poly crisis?!? So few approach the underlying problem so well. Even if we solve something like CO2 emissions, it does not solve the underlying human behaviors that led humanity to this brink. The underlying problem really is in our collective beliefs and behaviors. I get energized too by listening to conversations with these three men.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Indeed! Likewise give Gratitude and Honor unto Thy Heirs. And unto all thy HEIRS and our BEAUTIFUL programmers provided the Sea of Glass.

[@Gwerd]

I am partway through the book Master and his Emissary by Iain McGilchrist and hearing this description of the left and right hemispheres in the conclusion was such a quantum leap in my understanding... "The left hemisphere continually narrows down to certainty, the right hemisphere continually opens up to possibility"

[@c3bhm]

Now compound it with Jonathan Haidt's concept of 'core temperamental preferences', where we seem to all be born with a social/political 'gender'/allegiance on an emotional level far below whatever progressive-vs-conservative narratives we've got up in our conscious minds. Essentially, pretty much everyone is a mindless mess, running scripts that come from a hyper-brainy imbalanced mind-dominance that is profoundly delusional (and yet arrogantly certain of our attitudes and conclusions). Like the 'NPC' meme...a planet full of NPC's.

[@probingtongue]

Glad I came across this. Wonderful conversation. Thanks to whomever…

[@StefanSchoch]

Thank you so much for this deep, rich and important dialogue! The three perspectives you bring to the discussion are so incredible valuable. 'Remembering who we really are' would be the short form of what is most needed today. Building bridges between different religions or spiritual groups would be another. You're showing a way how this can be approached. Please continue this conversation! 🙏

[@johnoestmannmusic]

This was amazing. So much of what was said here speaks to parts of my lived experience that I haven't previously been able to find validation for in our culture. To answer your question Daniel - yes please take this conversation further and deeper. More of this content will only pull things toward a renewing direction.

[@PlumGustave]

Very beautiful and inspiring, thank you all ever so much. Please do arrange another!

[@Matlacha_Painter]

Thank you so much for having this conversation. I trust it will continue without me. I am off to the pub for a few pints, some snooker and chatting up some birds. Enjoy!

[@dermotmeuchner2416]

We need more conversations like this. Some semblance of hope listening to these gentlemen.

[@ToddCrosby-e2s]

mn 2hr. 53....the crux of things. I think it is pretty obvious that all religions have a variant ...commonly referred to as mystical tradition or wisdom tradition,.. which seems to operate on these "meta- metas" that Daniel just points out. Most obvious are Yoga in Hinduism, Sufism in Islam, Contemplative Christianity in Christianity, Zen in Buddhism, Kabbalah in Judaism ...etc. These all seem to have similar effects on the practicants ...which is to provide a deep EXPERIENCE (as opposed to knowledge) of the sacred oneness of the individual with the cosmos. This seems to result in deep capacity for empathy and soul.. and a love of many things. That love then empowers sacrifice, wisdom, and more love. It seems to be inescapable that more people will need to be exposed to the ecologies of practice (per Vervaeke) that lead to these profound experiences. I think that the key point is that this is a TRANSFORMATION that has to occur via a profound "one with cosmos" experience. One of the areas that we have neglected is the proper role of ritual. Ritual, properly conceptualized and orchestrated, can create a deep psychological transformation...an implicit transformation. We have gotten rid of ritual in favor of explicit understanding. Ritual doesn't work that way. It is implicit and when rendered explicit loses its transformative power.

[@rolfvanharen]

Almost gone through it and I have to reSee it again for at least X times to truly grab all the essentials in it. What a richness and what thankfulness I feel for this knowledge inside insights humour and perspective. The feeling not Being alone at this journey is almost comforting. Thank you beautiful men 🙏

[@ronalddecker8498]

You are most definitely not alone! These men have given all of us a gift in risking their own challenging thoughts.

[@kennethadams8835]

This was a triumph. Dialogue into Trialogos? Brilliant discussion and artfully managed... appreciated the contributions of all three of these extraordinary thinkers.

[@ArtemZen]

Having these three in a conversation is bound to be epic. Can’t wait to listen 🔥 🔥

[@krystofekl8162]

Please do keep exploring together and shouting from the rooftops, it’s much needed and desired. It was great having Daniel steer the conversation more to the practicalities of rolling out something like a new religion, as that’s a domain that John and Iain don’t address as often.

[@annodell340]

Truly profound exchange between 3 profoundly significant thinker-philosophers. A follow up match required for many reasons, including the fact that they never addressed the 'matriarchal-matrifocal' question, and would suggest that the next summit improved with a 4th female voice to add further essential perspective to this imperative investigation.

[@nourishflourishflow]

I can't help but feel and agree that a resurrection of something like Christianity is where we are going. I've been steeped in non-dual arenas for several years now, but it lacked heart for me. I've just recently been pulled into much deeper need for the Sacred. And it seems that Christianity, in particular, has this Sacred and organizing principle that could reorient the world as we know it. What a wonderful and hopeful conversation this was.

[@simonbrownbridge9919]

Said something similar myself. Exploring the true Christian mysteries, often hidden by the churches, gives the possibility of a renewal of our inter relationships thus excluding me first, greed, warfare, debt, psycho-stress, fear distrust and the techno dystopia descending on mankind like a darkening fog of unreality. Finding the meaning of the light of Christ I feel would re-enlighten the world, individual by individual

[@nourishflourishflow]

Yes ❤@@simonbrownbridge9919

[@jamesleonard2870]

I’m not a Christian or even religious other than living my whole life in Christian dominated society. That being said I found a deep appreciation of Christianity when I learned about the very very early days of the religion. Allen Watts lectures on early Christian theology were kind of my inroad to finally seeing sone value in the religion. Lije someone else said, values the church seems to have deliberately obscured

[@ensoenso5052]

Doing some deep work in this conversation. It's great to see people who are thinking about and starting to make moves towards a better way of bring in the world. I'd love to see more of this.

[@eyesee9715]

Eastern Orthodox (i.e. right hemispheric?) Christian here. This was music to my ears. Thank you, little human trinity!

[@kupkaon]

A few parts struct me particularly deeply. Firstly, falling in love with the world and life as an antidote really resonates with me and I am glad to be reminded I managed to fall in love in that way, which I am very thankful for. Secondly, falling in love means indeed to be overwhelmed by the good and the bad. The pain, the suffering, the damage, all that is being lost. It is a state of being that, I feel, is impossible to endure all the time consciously. But it is terribly alive and intensive. Lastly, indeed it does pull you, calls you into becoming a guardian, a protector, not necessarily a hero. Maybe you will manage little in fact, but we all do what is possible. I really loved the conversation and I love to listen to people speaking from the same position as I am. Feels validating and you get to know there are "brothers in arms", not connected by rough or philosophical ideas, but by an incredibly relatable, precisely similar, lived experience. Thanks again.

[@ronalddecker8498]

I also thought about ‘love’ in the way it was presented in this conversation then mixed it with another idea presented that everything is primarily ’relational’. I am pondering the idea that love can be thought of like sunlight, everyone experiencing it can offer a description and ‘knows’ from their personal experience what it is. But it is not something we do. It is an aspect of healthy relationship with the other. It might be more accurate to say, i experience love with you. It spontaneously emerges from our healthy relationship. It does feel great like sunshine. But i have no claim to it. It is just an aspect of healthy relationships. Not an activity i can claim. So falling in love with the world is an experience that emerges from a healthy relationship with the world. How wonderful! These kind of discussions are great to inspire thoughts.

[@kupkaon]

​@@ronalddecker8498 I would say that my path went through first learning to experience more fully, i.e. to experience in a more embodied, wholesome way. Reconnect with the body and polish the mind through various practices. Then I think, and I am a bit surprised it was not directly mentioned, the feeling of awe is paramount to the sacred. And I got to experience awe and the world as sacred through studying various fields like soil biology and ecology, permaculture, but also economics, psychology... What inspires me and connects me to the world are the details I can relate to, not abstract principles. So knowing what chemical processes happen in the soil make me fall in love with it through awe. And indeed, knowledge makes you see all the relations more clearly, it just all becomes so salient, it all causes the everyday experience to be even overwhelmingly beautiful. Anyway, just wanted to mention my path as one possible path. I don't think we really need religions for what was mentioned in the video. Knowledge bundled with elementary openness to let yourself be touched and changed can do the job as well. I would even say, openness is the key, the rest will happen eventually somehow. And you get to open properly only after you manage to ground yourself in your being. Because then the relation between you and the world can become fluid. Once feeling secure, you do not guard your boundaries so neurotically and you can let go.

[@GianniOttone]

We’re in the midst of the most important and existential philosophical discussions in the history of man. Unbelievable to be an active participant in this level of awareness. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[@johnhare7580]

Daniel, if you read these comments, please do more of these trialogues, they make more of a difference than you can imagine, they are part of the much needed spiritual renewal, more and more people are waking up.

[@ronalddecker8498]

Thank you for saying this!! Can i humbly ask you to read my post in these comments?

[@foolfether]

without knowing whether you were just playing with words or not, i may add that 'dia-' in 'dialogue' in ancient greek meant 'through/by'.

[@johnhare7580]

Rupert Sheldrake , Ralph Abraham and Terence McKenna famously had a series of discussions which were enormously generative. That's where I first heard the term.

[@johnhare7580]

​@@ronalddecker8498 Can you please re-post your comment here, I can't find it Ronald.

[@foolfether]

@@johnhare7580 i see.

[@KarenSmith-w9e]

Well worth the time and energy to take this slowly (not my normal left hemisphere watch it on 1.25 speed). A lot to digest, thought provoking is understatement. Daniel asking key insightful questions on personal to global practices.. I will revisit via the transcript to muse on actions - cut needless admin, inspiration in wise communities and creativity, so much in there. So grateful, thank you.

[@diegoevrard-broquet8050]

you're a genius Daniel, glad you have your yt channel

[@christopherfreeman3442]

This was amazing! Please continue whenever you're all able to do so.

[@dalibofurnell]

Looking forward to this ❤ love Dr John Vervaeke and Dr Iain mcgilchrist ❤ their work has been so helpful

[@elflaco5052]

Thanks for this fantastic conversation! There's so much in there. Even if I don't get everything they're saying or refering to you can get so much from it and see how it relates to you and what you're doing in life and how you might change it. I'm going to watch it again with my best friend!

[@namero999]

Daniel, you have to speak with Bernardo Kastrup. The religion that is not a religion that Vervaeke speaks about might be found in something akin to BK's ontology. This was an amazing conversation, thanks for making it happen.

[@TheDionysianFields]

But that's the hard way. We could just stage an alien visitation...I mean, attack.

[@namero999]

@alwynraynott7303 elaborate, so that we know where you stand in this little ranking of yours.

[@jonathanrider4417]

Thanks for this gentlemen - an extraordinary dialogue! I hope you will meetup again. Some very hopeful and fecund thoughts - thanks for sharing. Gold, frankincense and myrrh all together in the same room with the past the present and the future. This is a classic.

[@rrg0731]

This was exceptional. Thanks everyone

[@katia1860]

This is precious. Daniel, please do continue exploring, diving deeper into the positive feedback loops. We so desperately need this right-hemisphere bigger picture view to help us steer away from the despair and towards greater wisdom that lives in all of us- we've just forgotten that it's there...

[@ronalddecker8498]

So many people have been inspired by these three men.

[@geoffreydawson5430]

A simple yet great teaching (for me). Fits into Dr Mcgilchrist's model of learning the basics but then expanding to a broader more intuitive view. My argument is not a political realist view, just a mindset of seeing the big picture and applying the right effort when required. As a young boy, I had an innate love for how a two-dimensional surface could represent three dimensions. But that was soon diminished by a biology teacher Protestant Father and strict schooling. In my adult years, I returned to my passion. Only not following traditional painting methods. My Master painter (following Rembrandt, Velasquez, Sargent, etc) argued, as with other methods, to make steps in tone when breaking down the forms within an object (parts). With each step being a value (light/dark). Long story short, as with other teaching methods, colour in the initial drawing. But here is the trick, each stroke is a separate abstract mark and never blended. Looks like crap when you are painting two feet from your face, but go back ten feet and it becomes photo-real (Could argue this is simply post-impressionism but my point is how Hyper-realism today is, as Dr Vervaeke argues, smoothed out and blended to death.). Then after ten or twenty paintings, he argued to just throw his method in the bin. Worked for me, I can now see a three-dimensional object and intuitively paint by first seeing the correct value and what tone to apply at a rapid pace. What once took 20 hours to paint now takes five. The same can be said for my meditation practice only in reverse. What once took 5 minutes of agony is now 50 minutes of balanced chaos. With a lifestyle whereby (most of the time) value and tone present themselves more intuitively. The trouble is my art now needs an audience as it does not merge well with current ideologies (or a new religion).

[@ClaireChapman-d2n]

Daniel Schmactenberger is amazing on his own, but watching real collaborative thinking unfold adds depth to each individual perspective. I would watch these three talk again and would love to see Daniel host other guests, too. Thank you for such rich conversations that are in service to us all.

[@ronalddecker8498]

I totally agree that Daniel provides a service to humanity, and quite happy these are the first two people he brought into this discussion.

[@kimmiller7937]

Absolutely inspiring. What incredible people. Thank you!

[@Popopopopopopipopipipip]

Great to see Daniel and Iain have a conversation.

[@billyhewett8715]

Brilliant! Love the format, the mix of guests and the message. And Daniel, I very much appreciate your style and skill for hosting the conversation. Please do give us more. Continue this dialogue and allow it to expand to others.

[@dacro2986]

I have been waiting forever for John and Daniel to publicly discuss so excited for this! Happy to get to to know Dr McGilchrist at the same time

[@Fernadogcv]

This conversation was absolutely fenomenal 😊 thank you all for sharing this wonderful moment with the rest of us.

[@mandala4240]

Thank you so much for this. Please continue this and explore the practical ways out of the feedback loop together in further detail, and cultivate this fellowship. Our intuitions will not hide, the soul is ascending!

[@andreedelslund2138]

YES! What a treat!😃🏆 Thank you so much each of you for this beautiful, inspiring and I think very constructive discussion🙏 I feel deep gratitude for you and definitely see all three of you as great role models and teachers. Your work and wisdom have benefited me tremendously for years, and for that I am so very deeply thankful!❤ From the heart thank you Dr. McGilchrist, Dr. Vervaeke and thank you Daniel! God bless you🙏

[@aoihana1042]

Deep and wide conversations like this is why I pay for KZbin. I am grateful how technology gives us the opportunity to be a virtual audience to these great minds

[@nitahill6951]

It has taken me a few days to realize that the three represent the three energy centers of the body with John being mind, Iain being heart and Daniel the gut. Fascinating!

[@winningedge965]

yes, I like the heart, mind and gut analogy. Thank you.

[@emy_2510]

Oh my word this was so wonderful. Thank you for this amazing discussion. This is my introduction to Daniel, and I really learned quite a bit from him. Iain and John, as ever, also continuously learning from them. I too would like to say that John's work has helped me understand my religion better, first Jordan Peterson, who led me to Jonathan Pageau and also John. Thank you once more. Müthiş!

[@HardAtWorkPainting]

This was so good. I can't really find the words. Such a meaningful coming together of insights and wisdom really. Excellent pertinent questions too, that sometimes float through my mind when watching people like John and Ian as a youngish father of 3, looking to the future. Hopeful, but unsure in our current world, and definitely called to action to try to spread the love of wisdom in my community. ❤

[@pq2667]

Many thanks gentlemen. Please do deepen the conversation at your earliest.

[@seamlessyorkshiredales]

Iain McGilchrist’s opening thoughts are fascinating. I’m gripped. I found this to be such meaningful description.

[@fsi004]

Thank you very much Ian, Daniel, and John, both for targeting the essence of the meta-crisis in such a skillfull way, and for demonstrating how productive dialogue is done right. You are all very much inspiring individuals, and I wish you all the best. Let’s go solve this - together. ☺️

[@JaCapella]

The Fear (Respect, awe) of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom.

[@lifearttimes]

Great dialogue. Made me very happy. having children is sacred and therefore, a sacrifice indeed. The Two Brothers Story has many wisdom. Some i own and some unknown. Thank You, John, Daniel & Iain. Shine On!✨✨✨

[@jtcybulski]

This is like getting the notes from the smart kids in the class. What a time to be alive.

[@johnmitchell2741]

I'll say

[@johns2220]

except Schmachtenberger is just a massive pseud

[@timbligh6481]

I think they dodged the ultimate question which is how do we create the grounds for transformative change within the education system and the medical profession and the higher education sector. More power to these guys, who do not seek power but whose voices carry genuine wisdom.

[@Geezerelli]

Thomas Sowell answers that.😊

[@yossarian67]

I saw the three of you on this video title and went: WOW! Immediately thrilled to see what type of brilliant emergent dia logos might arise from this potent blending of wisdoms. ❤

[@JaseboMonkeyRex]

Please continue this conversation and go deeper... This is valuable

[@martinchikilian]

This conversation further proves Hanh’s point that the “next Buddha will be a Sangha”. I’ll be looking forward to watching, assimilating, and accommodating the next episodes of what I hope will be a longer series between these three humans.

[@ben-sanford]

What a treat, I have been waiting for this day. Thank you all!

[@ben-sanford]

At times in this dialog, Daniel serves as a wonderful corpus callosum 🙏

[@McAwesomeDelux]

"Yeah yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think that they should." Dr. Malcom, Jurassic Park

[@toniocvz]

Daniel, please deepen the conversation! I'd love to hear more of what you have to say regarding these drivers

[@MarioChilaq]

2:55:30 it’s extremely weird and exciting to be living in this point of the late capitalism where 3 very intelligent thinkers are discussing the pros of ancient religions, what they have in common and what can we borrow for them to create a new one. We are witnessing the birth of a new religion coming out of a very large crisis (like it happened several times before). This new religion MUST “be capable to understand and steward the power of technology well “

[@excaliburironforce9908]

🤯

[@alexlyee]

What an amazing conversation. Beautiful.

[@AugustNightingale]

This talk is going to become a classic text of its time.

[@jbsweeney1077]

The joyful chuckle at the end sums it up well.

[@hugereductions]

At the risk of sounding banal, it seems rather obvious that we require new leadership -from without and within... and dare I say, the likes of Sam Harris et al. really need to think hard on this stuff. Despite the strange allure of high-brow athiesm, I believe we need to introduce/reintroduce the divine back into our existence.

[@MizJaniceResinArt]

We need leadership.

[@sheilaeisele8490]

More, please.

[@AugustNightingale]

And it would be great to see some women in this intense intellectual circle. I love this & find it really exciting but I’m a bit … whaaaat…. More white men…. Really?

[@sheilaeisele8490]

@@AugustNightingale Do you have someone in mind?

[@AugustNightingale]

@@sheilaeisele8490 - I've been thinking about this. Yes, I think we need some people who are thinking and talking about spirituality in the world we are wanting to build, and yes, there are some women. So, Elizabeth Oldfield (she's in the UK), Robin Wall Kimmerer (of Braiding Sweetgrass fame)

[@sheilaeisele8490]

@@AugustNightingale I like the way you think. Good on you! Hopefully, the conversation will transpire. I'll definitely watch.

[@damiantrollope211]

OMG! Are these three actually together in a discussion? So amazing! Thank you! Busy right now but will definately set apart some time to properly watch this!

[@slowwco]

What a wonderful surprise, thanks Daniel, Iain, and John!

[@richardcawley8346]

Thanks for sharing. Daniel chairing expertly,I thought appeared to take the role of communicating perceived reality,John ,with his analyses, the actual reality and Iain ,the underlying causes or drivers, the intra-action of which produce the latter and former. Each switched levels effortlessly, and recognised each in so doing. Maybe ,in process and relational terms this is one of the most valuable and topic-appropriate aspects to a complicated subject educing so many qualified remarks. Stimulating

[@danielnelson3136]

This is my simplified summery of this whole video: The overlap between their worldviews and their ways of conceptualizing "the crisis" ("the meta-crisis", "the meaning crisis", "the master and the emissary"). Daniel has a social/economic/game-theoretic focus, John has a psychological and philosophical focus, and Ian has a psychological, philosophical and neuroscientific focus. They talk about meaning and how it is not reducible to purpose (you also have coherence, flow and mattering), how the modern/post-modern world developed a reductionist materialist worldview and moved away from the sacred, how it can be understood by looking at hemispheric lateralization in the brain (left vs. right), the need to steward catastrophic technologies and the power games related to that, and many other variations on those questions. They seem to be converging on the need to create an updated form of religion.

[@j.rivermartin3412]

I think the topics and issues under discussion were much more broad than these categories, generally. I especially enjoyed the insight that all three seem to be explicitly embraing a relational ontology, as I do. It seems that relational ontology may well be the next wave for human intelligence, congnition, psychology, philosophy, etc., and that's exciting for me, since I've been dwelling within it for so long as it is.

[@DJWESG1]

Born from a reluctance to advocate socialism?

[@ronalddecker8498]

I think they are hoping a continuation of this conversation leads to an emergence of wisdom that forms it’s own religion. What are the underlying beliefs of our civilization that have led us to where we are? You might have some insight that you think is trivial or useless, but is the spark needed for someone else’s imagination. It is risky. I put a post in these comments that i hope has some value, but wow do i feel out of my league offering to engage in conversation with the three of these men who have given us all so much. But i think it is what they are hoping for.