The Ragnarok's New Armor! | Ragnarok Refit Ep. 2 From the Depths

[@nicopence3148]

Unitonically THICC alloy has low detection, not horrible EMP reduction, light, highish health, armor, and its ac reduces/stops smaller heat/hesh shells. It’s just expensive.

[@Ryanisthere]

virtual metal blocks and virtual bullets why do i feel like im in a quantum physics lecture

[@tolbryntheix4135]

Thats an interesting metric to measure armor strength, I usually do the inverse where I grade the armor based on the smallest shell that can penetrate the armor in 1 shot plus the smallest shell that gets through in 2 shots. Even though you already picked your armor, you can test shooting at 11 metal air ducts stacked behind each other to see why I included 1 layer of them in my armor scheme. Anyways: great video and good luck on the retrofit.

[@Brenzo44]

Heh, it was just the first way that came to mind. I figure a big battleship will be taking big shells, lets see how long it survives. I’m not a perfect armor theorist! And for sure I’ll give it a shot! I still have more testing to do not on recording for turret/hull armor.

[@tolbryntheix4135]

@@Brenzo44 Since you went without an ERA layer on the citadel belt, I definitely recommend putting ERA on your turrets. After all, ERA can delete a single chemical warhead even if it is a 500mm 200k rail draw warhead. You might want to look into including some downwards-facing props to keep the ship from capsizing because in a fight you will often get a lot of alloy shot off but not the heavy armor, which causes you to lose buoyancy on the side where you are getting shot at. As for the thing you asked about the HEAT warhead in the video: each HEAT shell has a stat in the shell customizer called HEAT penetration metric. You can hover over the pop-up to have a pop up explain it, but basically the bigger the HEAT shell, the further it can travel through armor before the blast expires. (And due to the calculation of this metric, thicker armor with lower AC is better at stopping heat than thin armor with a lot of AC) When using a HEAT warhead, in the shell customizer a setting called Primary HEAT penetration factor appears where you can make a trade-off between HEAT penetration depth and the damage of the HEAT copper stream. For reference, a 500mm HEAT warhead shell with 8 HE warheads and a Primary HEAT penetration factor of 0.5 can either go through 4 layers of backed metal or go through 10 layers of backed wood before expiring. Also a small correction: a single 7x7 air duct can cover 3.0625 four-by-four sections, so instead of 400 materials per air duct per section it only costs (on average) 131 materials per section when you put the sections on the armor belt, which reduces the price of my armor scheme per section down to 723, which yields an E/M score of 0.0484

[@Brenzo44]

Great information all around. Will definitely be doing the props and ERA on turrets. I just wanted to reduce ERA spam where possible in the name of this thing being as FPS safe for as many people as possible. Also I can't believe I forgot to take the 7x7 measurement in account when calculating. As you can see, I'm a developer not a math major!

[@tolbryntheix4135]

@@Brenzo44 Yeah, as useful as ERA is, it really does kill the performance (though that property also makes for great aimpoint spoofing). Looking forward to seeing you tackle the turrets next.

[@scorpion563]

Me: makes a text wall about armor. This video: exists before I posted the comment My guy hit EVERY POINT I MADE ABOUT ARMOR AND SEVERAL POINTS PAST THAT. I personally dislike the adding rounds to kill as a stat but eh, doesn't really matter, though I respect the detail you went into. Keep up the good quality development and KZbin videos.

[@Brenzo44]

Well…I quite liked it anyway! Learning armor theory is an ongoing process for me so anyone preaching it is always appreciated. Shots to kill is simply the first and easiest metric I could think of that makes sense; as long as I always use the same gun/shell specs it should lead to consistent enough data as I make new ships.

[@littletimelord2755]

I’m learning so much! I’m a bit late though, I should have known this stuff 4000 hours ago…

[@Brenzo44]

Best time to learn was 10 minutes ago, the second best time is now!

[@AtomicBoehmite]

Thank you for the recenlt uploads, you've rekindled my love for this game!

[@Brenzo44]

Glad to hear it! Its an amazing game that I have too many hours lost to the designer mode in…

[@DSIREX_]

Theres a document for how HE Works, yes He deals more damage inside of crafts but do Mind that the HE ap is a thing thats why heavy armour takes alot of damage from HE BUT IT also Reduces and Increases damage depending IF Your HE has less damge than the block it is exploding on or near, it will deal less damage, Example if your HE is 5000 damage, then the 4m Heavy block is 6000 Your HE will do less damage SIGNIFICANTLY (NO I DO NOT MEAN AP OR AC VALUE BUT THAT DOES INCLUDE IT IN THE DAMAGE SCALING) If your HE has more Damage than the block's hp, IT Will DEAL more damage than if you for example spammed 5000 damage HE shells, If you used something like 7000 HE Damage, That will do More damage than the 5000 significantly but not alot Theres also the multiplier if its underwater, for 5m depth it will 11% more damage, 10m = 16% , 15m= 19% , 20m = 22%, Edit: I can send you the document through discord, youtube will probably just delete my comment if I did anyway

[@thebevil8127]

I don't know if you account for the heat metric for your shells, the default has the heat metric set to the lowest... For ap heat (or heat in general) the metric is usually set to the max so that it has the best chance to penetrate

[@Christian-jc6gf]

These videos are hugely helping how i make boats in FTD. I only ever bothered with jets and planes because making a ship that isn't dogwater is really complicated. Right now I'm right through making a very well designed corvette (albeit with cruiser armour and a pricetag to match) and this time rather than having a peashooter turret, I've finally managed to tetris myself a 450rpm DWG-shredding autocannon. Thank you!

[@screamingeagles2670]

Nice vid, mouse building hurts my soul. I was wondering if you could talk about poles vs. wedges vs. slopes? Most people say that poles are ineffective for stopping heat/hesh but I always use poles anyways for superior health rating. Also it would be nice if you discussed alternating vertical and horizontal beams. In theory it has the advantage of producing only a 1x1 hole when penatrated vs. The 1x4 of a normal layout. Would be cool to see if that's how it actually plays out in combat.

[@Brenzo44]

Unfortunately I grew up on minecraft and didnt discover keyboard building FTD until like year 2 of playing it…can’t kick the habit! And I could follow up on that in the future; poles are in fact effective and you can easily test this but have a larger “surface area” of where they connect and could act as a beam instead of air compared to beam slopes. And i actually did use alternating in my final layout! Never went over it because , well, I forgot! I don’t consider myself an armor theory expert so I intended this video to be a ride along of how to learn, not preach the theories at you

[@dr.robertnick9599]

@@Brenzo44 I wish there was a hybrid build mode, like: Move the camera and cursor (cursor = where the block will be) freely and select the first spot, just like with mouse build, but when you hold the left mouse it doesn't place a block, but "switches to keyboard mode", so when you press wasd, a block gets placed where you aimed and the cursor moves to the direction you pressed. The mouse button works like modifier. Right mouse button works the same, but deletes blocks. Middle mouse button does nothing, but can move the cursor, like in keyboard mode. Its similar to quickly switching between both, but a bit more confortable.

[@made5966]

​@@Brenzo44 not sure if your feelings about alternating vertical and horizontal armor has changed over the past few months, I prefer not to use alternating armor since I feel that the advantage of the 1x1 hole doesn't come close to offsetting the disadvantage of losing the armor stacking bonus

[@imapopo2924]

What's funny about the alloy slab layout is that I believe that, before HA was introduced into the game, Robbaz had this behemoth armored with a really thick layer of alloy with a metal shell. So... If Im remembering correctly, you're essentially giving it its old armor back. I could be wrong, but thats what Im remembering. Need to go watch his FtD vids again...

[@Cobrax_x]

My strongest ship's armour, 250mm of wood.....

[@GMODISM]

Ayy checkerboards! Cool testing, lately I have also gone towards the direction with less armour and more guns when building, seems to never be enough D....

[@Brenzo44]

That's what I'd typically do...but Robbaz seemed to have other ideas when he left 11 damn meters of armor space lmao. Gotta respect his choices!

[@Driver2806]

Awesome to see a refit of this classic. Have you done any testing with wedges, because i had some good results using them in some of my battleship, since they are great against kinetics and also have a build in airgap. (Also very interested in the new hull, looks very good and sleek, but i do hope you find a way to include some of the original styling, especially in the superstructure.)

[@Brenzo44]

I certainly could. For this I sort of just looked around for what people had formed a consensus on what was best already and then just tested out different versions; most people believe in slopes so I used those the most. And for sure. The hull will be getting changed no matter what because the original hull is well, miserable. But i intend to have two versions of the superstructure, one completely original and one thats a makeover of the original

[@williamterry6589]

Love the videos and I think it would be cool if for one of the main guns to have a rapid fire burst rail gun like on the scarlet dawn event horizon.

[@SuwinTzi]

You can't do AP-HESH, as there is no sescondary HESH shell part. Building what others have said alloy is your best friend to making things float, the Meg has a good chunk of it for instance. Frag can also go full 180 but isn't worth it for the same reasons why HE falls off, parts of frags go nowhere and get wasted. I don't remember where I heard but wide frag should be set to 137 degrees, that lets it maximize damage per frag without having too much getting wasted. Thump seems to do worse against crosshatched armor, might have to do with the way thump damage spreads.

[@sgxbot]

With this test a single beam of wood would have the best e/m as it costs 1 and would need 1 shot to destroy. Making the e/m 1 and as a result many times better then all those armor designs combined

[@fluffythecandleeater6196]

is there armor that is good against huge impact pacs between the 500m to 1000m long arms edit: im asking cause i am planning to make an airship that uses dual 1000m impact packs on turrrets and want to make it able to kill basicly anything ]

[@BigGamer2525]

11:51 BBS?

[@space_engeneer5022]

Help from the discord 💀

[@whwhwhhwhhhwhdldkjdsnsjsks6544]

This probably isn’t a good way to measure the armour. Using just a mediocre railgun shell and measuring based on penetration alone doesn’t give a very good view of how effective the armour would actually be in combat.

[@no3ironman11100]

Why do you alternate it? why did you not try alloy?

[@Brenzo44]

The checkerboard pattern is merely a pattern Ive picked up from GMODISM’s videos. Im sure its equal in usefulness as simply doing layers, but I am a slave to my habits. And I didnt try alloy in the health focused layouts because alloy is more expensive than wood, someone out there ran the numbers on the discord and proved that wood/metal mix is the highest health/cost in the game or something along those line. I did in fact settle on 9m of alloy with 2m of HA for my citadel armor.

[@tolbryntheix4135]

If you use alternating layers, what happens when an APHE shell goes off inside the armor? It will rip the entire wooden layer out, leaving a big internal hole in your armor. That's why you stagger it: to protect the wood from getting blown out.

[@no3ironman11100]

@@Brenzo44 Depends on what shoots you honestly. Unless you're up vs like APS with high AP wood would have less health than alloy but more importantly it's less dense and doesn't give metal good stacking. Alloy meta is better off with metal outside, alloy inside. If you use HA make the beam slopes and the layer backing them HA, better that way to minimize kinetics & frags.

[@Brenzo44]

So you're kind of glancing over the reason I picked wood for the non citadel armor. It's cheaper. Wood is 1 mat/m, Alloy is 5 mat/m. Wood has an hp/material of 180 compared to alloy's 60 hp/material. I agree with you; alloy is completely better when staggered with metal than wood. But that's not the point. Any armoring on the ship that isn't protecting the citadel doesn't need to be the most effective and it DEFINITELY needs to be cheap; there's going to be like 100+ sections of it! The things that are in these areas, turrets, storage, redundant systems, are inherently armored (turrets by having armor shells, redundant systems by their nature). In this case, my metric of efficacy/cost completely trumps out total efficacy.

[@tekoimming1943]

@@Brenzo44 And that's totally the way to go. No need to go all out for a single AntiAir Turret. I sadly have the habit to armour everything to the max, but it really inefficient. 9m armour on both sides and 3m inside isn't worth it :(

[@Barnaclebeard]

"Multiply it", not "times it." "PREF-ess", not "pre-FACE."