The Ramones and World War 2 | A Punk Paradox?

Perhaps the most famous of American Punk bands, the Ramones formed in 1974 and employed imagery from the Second World War and the Nazis in their lyrics and titles. "Blitzkrieg Bop" and "Today Your Love, Tomorrow the World" are two obvious examples, though "Bonzo Goes to Bitzburg" is another that is less easy to identify. What were the Ramones trying to accomplish with this? And what was the context in which the music was made?
Music Used:
Sunday Dub - Kevin MacLeod
Ramones Songs Mentioned:
Blitzkrieg Bop:
• Ramones - Blitzkrieg B...
Today Your Love, Tomorrow the World:
• Ramones - Today Your L...
Bonzo Goes to Bitburg:
• Ramones - Bonzo Goes T...
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[@CoffeeSuccubus]

"when i was an edgy teen myself" Me as an adult who loves the Ramones like my mom: excuse you

[@fernandomartin661]

I would like to add a few more facts: 1. The "Hey, ho, let's go!" chant of "Blitzkrieg Bop" was inspired by the "S-A-T-U-D-A-Y" chant from the Bay City Rollers song, "Saturday Night." 2. The original lyrics of "Today your love, tomorrow the world." were different. It was "I'm a nazi, baby, I'm a nazi, yes I am." However, Seymour Stein, the president of the Ramones' record label (and a jew himself), demanded that the lyrics be changed; the Ramones obliged with "I'm a shock trooper in a stupor, yes I am." 3. Not every member of the Ramones was a fan of "Bonzo goes to Bitburg." Johnny Ramone, a staunch supporter of Ronald Reagan, initially refused to play the song; eventually, Joey Ramone compromised by changing the title to "My brain is hanging upside down (Bonzo goes to Bitburg)."

[@VoteBidentoSaveDemocracy]

Yeah. One of the reasons the Ramones broke up was their radically different perspectives on topics ranging from music to politics. Bonzo Goes to Bitburg has always been one of my favorites, though I'm not much of a fan of Reagan.

[@seamussc]

Not only was Joey Ramone Jewish, drummer Tommy Ramone (Thomas Erdelyi) was also Jewish, and born in Hungary to Jewish parents just 3 years after the war who survived the holocaust only by being hidden by sympathetic neighbors. I don't think it's just shock value, but reflecting their experiences being raised in the aftermath. Nazis doesn't celebrate the worst actions of the Third Reich, they deny the holocaust even happened.

[@dirkbonesteel]

I grew up in the 70s -80s, punk was a combination of the end of the world and heavy sarcasm. It was the height of the Cold War and nuclear holocaust was a daily possibility. No involved at the time took any of it seriously .

[@jdghok]

We were just kids then mate lol, I still listen to punk tunes weekly or I have withdrawel symptoms 😂

[@theicepickthatkilledtrotsk658]

I await the sequel to this. Black metal and WW2 which will have to be 12 hours long.

[@patrickdegenaar9495]

Go for it Hilbert! you are the only one person I know that can present language super-geekyness in an super-engaging way! 🙂

[@evandavid2816]

Very interesting video indeed - any chance you could do one about the use of WWII and other historical imagery in Iron Maiden songs, please...?

[@uchoabruno]

That was an unexpected and really nice video! Keep 'em coming.

[@fiona8081]

As a Ramones and history fan, I always thought it was very interesting how Dee Dee (and Johnny) and Joey developed such different ideas and ways to express their anger at their sociopolitical environment, disillusionment with the idyllic future promised to them as kids in the 60s that never arrived, resentment towards mainstream society, etc. Dee Dee primarily wrote "Today Your Love, Tomorrow the World" and seems to have been a more right-leaning reactionary type and sympathized with Nazis at least as a kid, whereas Joey primarily wrote "Bonzo Goes to Bitburg" and had a more left-y stance against enforced conformity and the American right wing establishment (as seen in the quote). This, and Johnny being a straight up establishment Republican, (among many, many other things...) led to a lot of tension in the group Disclaimer, I know some would disagree with me about Dee Dee, but based on what we know, that's my view. It did always seem weird to me how he implicitly positioned himself against authority and conformity, while at the same time glorifying the taboo aesthetics of a brutal authoritarian regime. Kind of shows how he was mostly acting out against social norms of his youth (which included 60s leftist idealism) in a nihilistic "nothing matters I hate everything" way, a la the edgelord teens of the internet, instead of having a thoughtful anti-establishment stance. But, he did have a horrible youth by all accounts, so I guess I can understand that That being said, as long as I'm writing a novel: "Today Your Love, Tomorrow the World" is one of my fav Ramones songs, partially because as a kid I didn't understand most of what they were saying. And some of Dee Dee's songs are very meaningful and well-written, so I'm not saying he was totally shallow and reactionary or anything

[@EnderGrad]

I was awestruck to see this in my notifs. I literally started listening to their music from yesterday. One of their tracks was played in Gen V and that's how I found out about them.

[@RogerTheil]

Gen V? Also, if you like them, check out the Dead Boys.

[@brianboru7684]

Johnny Ramone was a right wing Republican and a big Reagan fan and was against recording Bonzo Goes to Bitburg but was outvoted by the other Ramones.

[@skiptrailer7048]

Dee Dee growing up on US army bases in Germany? correct!

[@johnschindler8433]

I have heard that the Ramones phrase Gabba Gabba Hey, is based off of the chant in the circus sideshow movie Freaks by Tod Browning. Can you please do a video on that? Thanks ❤

[@alansmithee8831]

Hello Hilbert. As a young British kid in the 1970s, some of the punk fans just wanted to be as obnoxious as possible for the shock factor. Visiting Germany as a teenager, there seemed to be a strong peace movement and the political leaders in UK and US were set on winning the cold war, so this seems to put the visit of "Bonzo" in perspective, praising ordinary German soldiers.

[@greenenergy4265]

This was by far your BEST video. Could you do 1 on the 1st album of Iron Maiden specifically the single cover that shows Margaret Thatcher and Eddy lurking in the dark?

[@lakrids-pibe]

I thought it was an answer/mocking of Ballroom Blitz by Sweet

[@brianboru7684]

The Sweet bassist even wore a swastika on Top of the Pops.

[@Artur_M.]

Another (sort of) punk band comes to my mind - Joy Division. Even their name is a not so obvious but very dark WW2 reference. Their original name was Warsaw, which is a city with strong WW2 associations, and it's English name sounds like a war-related pun (at least in English itself), although it was probably a reference to a song by David Bowie. One of their most well-known songs: "They walked in line" is definitely war-themed.

[@PeterTeamExtreme]

They is not punk 🖐️😂

[@Artur_M.]

@@PeterTeamExtreme Well, "post punk", supposedly. Close enough for me. 😉

[@fandzejka9540]

@@PeterTeamExtreme Warsaw was 98% punk although orthodox would still spit on them anyway 🤷

[@alansmithee8831]

@@Artur_M. Where I lived post punk was Two Tone, only posh kids started talking about ideas of New Wave coming from America. I was more interested in Be Bop Deluxe and Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds. When I crossed the Pennines to go to University, one of my Wargames pals was into New Order, successor group to Joy Division, but we suspected it was due to the name association, rather than them being a local band.

[@PeterTeamExtreme]

@@Artur_M. perhaps I can agree on "punk adjacent".

[@alphariusomegon3965]

Wasn’t expecting this also I love rock and roll highschool.

[@kuroazrem5376]

Thar photo of Marx beneath a nazi eagle, lol

[@historywithhilbert146]

Either playing to a very specific Strasserist audience or making it very clear they're riffing with the shock-factor rather than the serious political message of these ideologies.

[@jacobscrackers98]

I mean, they don't call it National *Socialism* for nothing lol. It was called that on purpose, whether or not they were actually serious about socialism.

[@brianboru7684]

The Nazi eagle is upside down as an insult.

[@allanalopez1756]

I wonder if there's more songs that have these types of lyrics could you find please please ❤❤❤❤

[@Robert-xx8jx]

Awesomeness

[@JR-gp2zk]

Great video. Early Punk music and the Ramones were mostly about shock value and counter culture. It is going to sound crazy but in pre 1985-ish, owning and wearing Nazi paraphernalia in the US was more socially acceptable than wearing Soviet items. Old nazi items were more available at flea markets and Army Navy stores. It's the absurdity. Beach party in Vietnam, the KKK kidnapping your girlfriend, bopping to the blitzkrieg. It's just provocative and silly.

[@Jobe-13]

I haven’t heard about the Ramones in ages.

[@robertwatts7894]

The Ramones are my FAVORITE

[@jdghok]

Johnny Ramone was an avid German war memorabilia collector I know this because he used to bother joey about being a jew, lemmy from motorhead said this in an interview years ago

[@franks.6547]

@historywithhilbert146 zittern (tremble) is pronounced "tsittern" in German - toch laat maar "zitten" :-) Amazing how you can produce all this diverse content!

[@D.S.handle]

School of Rock is an awesome movie!

[@jackportugge5647]

I don't listen to my Ramones CDs since quite a while, it's time to listen again!.. the theme "Commando" is another good one, with a certain nazi feeling. "Beat on the brat" (with a baseball bat) sounds very skinhead, even because "brat" resembles a lot a slang, or slur word that we have here for negro. The punk movement was genuine rebel, too bad it got so associated with substance abuse, had it been more positively oriented might have gone real far. There are more themes from other bands: the Sex Pistols had "Belsen was a Gas", The Exploited have "Hitler's in the charts again", I think it's all a mix of shock value and irony. Watty and most punk rockers don't really fit in the nazi ideal of man. In the end, the punk movement has been a victim of itself, couldn't have been otherwise. I'm also surprised with this video!

[@SchinkenDerHoffnung]

its schatzY !!

[@YedolfWesler]

In its simplest terms. I think the point was that violence is something that is Monopolized by the state

[@low-polyhexagonalrat]

I got into the Ramones recently and was wondering what was up with the nazi imagery. It’s really interesting to see how symbols can shift and contort over time to represent radically different points of view, even when they’re diametrically opposed to each other. I feel like the hammer and sickle is another symbol that was used in the same way, both by the punk movement and from various political movements since the 20th century.

[@rubenverheij4770]

What about the SS in KISS?

[@bradyelich2745]

The Clash is another rebellious band.

[@Book-bz8ns]

Gaba hey!

[@marktabraham89]

Came for the Anglo-Saxons, stayed for the Ramones!😂

[@LukeBunyip]

6:17 Suddenly, Karl Marx appears...

[@GeraldEatsSoup]

I only know the Ramones because theres an autistic girl in my class in college who talks about them all the time

[@monsieurlaguillotine3481]

She sounds like a keeper

[@schmoorfderschmied1763]

While I believe I have never heard of the Ramones, so I know nothing about their song and such, i want to mention that upon hearing the word 'schatze' (for example at 5:30 ) my german brain instantly assumed the word "Schütze" (= shooter or marksman) was meant.

[@existentialcrisisactor]

If you haven't noticed this trend, you haven't paid attention to the music.

[@VixCorydon]

So you are talking about western punk so I will say some about eastern block (im polish so i will be talking about polish punk scene perspective) Meanwhile in the communist block it was simillar but with communism and censors that were chasing punk bands for singing "pro" (irony of course) communist songs For example polish bands Dezerter (orginaly called SS-20 name of soviet made rocket) had songs like "Spytaj milicjanta" (translation Ask policeman) basicly about how "good and honest" police is guiding on the right way of course censorship got triggered just like with theur other sonf "Ku przyszłości" (to the future) basicly paroding communist slogan Same with band Detonator bn had very popular song translated to "Red army" that was also beeing censored "Our eagle flies high above, in heart it has all the stars, and especially the one star of soviet friendship" (Rhyme made everythone thhink and sing modified version where "heart" was replaced by "ass")

[@caseclosed9342]

Fun fact: one of the child actors who was in School of Rock is now a prosecutor and indicted Netflix in 2020….

[@fandzejka9540]

Glenn Danzig as an example of the ~ww2 controversy

[@copperrecycling]

Bonzo goes to Bitburg

[@YedolfWesler]

Now it is 1984 Knock, knock at your front door It's the suede denim secret police They have come for your uncool niece Come quietly to the camp You'd look nice as a drawstring lamp Don't you worry, it's only a shower For your clothes, here's a pretty flower

[@monsieurlaguillotine3481]

HeAY GuIZ Im TeH fErSt CoMmMmMENt!11!1!1!!

[@PeterTeamExtreme]

Simple answer, it just fucking feels cool and makes people mad.

[@jacobscrackers98]

How old are you?

[@brianboru7684]

Probably the same age as your average punk then. Punk was for the kids, maaan!.

[@PeterTeamExtreme]

@@jacobscrackers98 old guy mad on the internet😀

[@jacobscrackers98]

@@PeterTeamExtreme Not mad. Just cringing. And I'm not particularly old either.

[@PeterTeamExtreme]

@@jacobscrackers98 my brother in christ, it's simply a fact that those were a large part of the reason for the use of that imagery, I was not the one who made it so lol.

[@TheGhostofCarlSchmitt]

you are wrong. ron asheton from the stooges had iron crosses and ss collars already in 69/70, that's where the ww2/nazi aesthetic came to "punk" music

[@hysterikole1]

Ya gotta remember, punk was meant to shock, and some songs, a lot of songs were written for shock's sake. its like the kids today meme-ing about 9/11, mostly cuz they weren't around to experience it, to those of us who were, it seems rather insulting...but its not, really, its just shock for shocks sake

[@jacobscrackers98]

Can people tell just by listening to music like that whether it is actually promoting, say, Nazism or not? Or do you just have to rely on the fact that the singer was Jewish and the statements of the band members? If you can, how? Asking because I'm autistic.

[@historywithhilbert146]

I mean it's a good question - would it be any less controversial or more acceptable if Joey Ramone had not been Jewish? For me that fact suggests that the usage of Nazi themes was just done for the shock factor - when it came to taking a serious political stance on the Second World War and how it was commemorated the song "Bonzo Goes to Bitburg" condemned any softening or acknowledgement of the ideologically-driven elements of the German Army. It depends a little on what the lyrics are saying - if it's clearly glorifying the actions of the Nazis then you could say it's trying to promote it, but it can be hard to identify when something is serious, tongue-in-cheek or ironic with a deeper message. And that counts for everyone wherever they are on the austistic spectrum I would say!

[@UniversalistSon9]

Punk for me has always been a form of healing, so I can kinda understand how a Jew could use such words and stuff.

[@thyofthee]

Ramones are an interesting case, Joey, Dee Dee, Tommy, Elvis, Marky, Richie, and CJ were all super liberal and anarcho-punk, but; and what pisses me off; Johnny despite being surrounded by these people still was a pretty hateful conservative

[@sit-insforsithis1568]

Johny was based as f dawg

[@SewerRat4Ever7]

You never made a video about what the Vikings thought about Muslims

[@historywithhilbert146]

Good point. Will get to it.

[@sit-insforsithis1568]

@@historywithhilbert146kan niet wachten ! Prima video dit trouwens. Was ook een Ramones fan, echt interessant die

[@specialsalmon4394]

It's not just shock factor it's an ironic way to make an antinazi song. The song is written from the Hitler youth perspective to jokingly say nazis are bad.

[@jamesbodnarchuk3322]

Violence begets violence

[@jankusthegreat9233]

I'm the first to comment and like this video

[@tobleramone]

Be sure to tell your mum.

[@JediSimpson]

You weren’t first, though.

[@Alejandro-te2nt]

Every douglas loves the reich

[@jackportugge5647]

Gabba Gabba Heil!

[@novushomo1311]

First

[@fabovondestory]

Shatze ist defenetly not a german word. I guess their werw going foe 'Schatzi'

[@PITDAEMON88]

True antiestablisment is Oi! not anarchist BS.

[@pathkeepers]

I grew up in what was left of the punk scene in the 90s and early 2000s. It was still pretty easy to be “countercultural”, at least in the Midwest where I was. Just had to be against the war on terror, Backstreet Boys, and George W. Now it’s more difficult, but still possible. I start by being conservative, voting for Trump, and not getting the V. I have kids, a business, and study religion. I wish I could afford to get my tattoos removed. The one thing that seems to have stayed the same, regardless of the “progressive” mentality the Disney Democrat mainstream claims to hold, is that they’re all still very pro-war. I will never stop being an edge lord contrarian.

[@harrymaciolek9629]

Don’t try to over intellectualize punk or any other music. Things looked a lot different in 1976, and a Nazi symbol didn’t carry the emotional weight that it does now in this overly sensitive era.

[@fandzejka9540]

I think you have no idea what it was like in the 70's and the symbols carried even more weight. Mensi from angelic upstarts said older people in England verbally and physically attacked punks with nazi symbols in the streets ( including him) .

[@danilapolesciuk4316]

Yeah people in 1976 would care less than today about people with symbols of a nation that they themselves fought against or their fathers fought against 😂

[@fandzejka9540]

Haha this reminds me... i was born and raised in a town in eastern Poland, there was a factory of clothes exported to soviet union. My friends grandad was producing wooden boxes in which the clothes were transported. Once we painted swastikas on them boxes with chunks of dry tar. When his grandad found out he beat shit out of my buddy and tell my father, who explained to me that if he didnt discovered the symbols but russians did he could have gone to jail. It was like 1987. I know it was eastern block but still...

[@brianboru7684]

Yeah, older people but from the silent generation too young to fight, to boomers and Generation Jones that weren't even born yet it didn't mean much. The punks were Generation Jones born late 50s and early 60s rebelling against parents and grandparents from the Greatest Generation.

[@alansmithee8831]

@@danilapolesciuk4316 Actually, as a kid in UK, the Nazis were seen by ordinary working class folk I knew as a bit sad and comical. They did beat them and they remembered the way they were shown by comedians like Will Hay and George Formby. Look at Fawlty Towers or at Ripping Yarns episode Escape From Stalag Luft 112B (WW1 Germans, but same idea) from the 1970s. See also Citizen Smith from that time, for how political extremes were just regarded by mainstream as comical.