The Rapture Debate, part 3

[@edilamara.ferreiradeolivei3780]

The church is mentioned until chapter 3 on the book of revelation, after that are mentioned people and nations! THE PURPOSE OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION ARE: WRATH, PUNISHMENT, JUDGMENT FOR THOSE WHO REJECT JESUS AND SINNERS

[@dustinwilcox6821]

@@edilamara.ferreiradeolivei3780 I cover this idea in part 2 of the series, see the description for the link. I know this is a common argument, but I personally would not use this idea to try to support the PreTrib Rapture, it has some issues and so I don’t find this idea in scholar’s papers.

[@thelaststand2670]

Yeah thats a legalist lie, because the words "The Church" is not mentioned in the book of Titus either so according to Pre Trib ideologies, the Blessed Hope is not for them either. However the Saints are mentioned: **The Saints ARE The Church:** Dan.7:25-27 Dan.12:7 Matt.25:52 Acts 26:10 Rom.8:27 Rom.12:13 Rom.15:26 Rom.16:2 1 Cor 6:1 1 Cor.14:33 2 Cor.9:12 Eph.3:8 ***Eph.**4:12***** Eph.6:18 Col.1:12 1 Thess.3:13 1 Tim.5:10 Phil.1:7 Heb.8:12 Heb.9:3 Heb.9:8 Heb.10:19 2 Peter 3:2 **Rev.5:8-10** Rev.8:3 Rev.8:4 Rev.13:7 Rev.13:10 Rev.14:10 Rev.14:12 Rev.16:6 Rev.17:6 Rev.18:24 *****Rev.19:8***** ***Rev.22:21***

[@thelaststand2670]

*WRATH is AAAAAAFTER the 7th Trumpet, so saith:* #1)The 24 Elders, *Rev.11:15-*18-19* #2)The Holy Spirit inspired John, *Rev.15:1, 7* #3)THE VOICE from THE Temple, *Rev.16:1* *Rev.6:*17 is AAAAAAFTER the 6th Seal is opened and are the words of FEARFUL *men** which contradict the 3 Witnesses of Scripture posted above. *JUDGEMENT of the people of Earth* comes AAAAAAFTER the number of MARTYRS is completed, **Rev.6:9-11* which comes AAAAAAFTER the first 3 1/2 years: *Dan.**7:25**-27* *Dan.12:*7* *Rev.13:*7**

[@brayict]

He said earlier in the vid how a separate set of saints wasn’t plausible, but isn’t that the people pleading at God’s throne given white robes and told to wait a while longer?

[@dustinwilcox6821]

@@brayict so, in this video I made I present both sides of the argument. So I’m not speaking for myself saying anything isn’t plausible. I think all views are plausible. But having two rapture and two resurrection events is indeed a very good reason to doubt a PreTrib (and midtrib) view. You’re asking about saints at God’s throne during the Tribulation time in Rev? How are they there? -> From a PostTrib perspective, they’d be a) saints who died throughout history, and/or b) saints who were killed by the Beast during the Tribulation.

[@edilamara.ferreiradeolivei3780]

Mathew 24 is divided in two parts: verse 1 to 14, is the beginning of sorrow, which the church is in, after 15 is the great tribulation for Jews and for those who rejected Jesus as messiah and lived in sinful life.

[@thelaststand2670]

Wrong. Matt.24:4-8 Beginning of Sorrows Matt.24:*9-14 TRIBULATION of the Saints. Matt.24:15-*21 Abomination of Desolation begins GREAT Tribulation. And: **The Saints ARE The Church:** Dan.7:25-27 Dan.12:7 Matt.25:52 Acts 26:10 Rom.8:27 Rom.12:13 Rom.15:26 Rom.16:2 1 Cor 6:1 1 Cor.14:33 2 Cor.9:12 Eph.3:8 ***Eph.**4:12***** Eph.6:18 Col.1:12 1 Thess.3:13 1 Tim.5:10 Phil.1:7 Heb.8:12 Heb.9:3 Heb.9:8 Heb.10:19 2 Peter 3:2 **Rev.5:8-10** Rev.8:3 Rev.8:4 Rev.13:7 Rev.13:10 Rev.14:10 Rev.14:12 Rev.16:6 Rev.17:6 Rev.18:24 *****Rev.19:8***** ***Rev.22:21*** ** The Elect are THE CHURCH:** Rom.8:33 Rom.9:11 Rom.11:28 *Col.**3:12* 1 Thess.1:4 2 Tim.2:10 Titus 1:1 1 Peter 1:1-2 1 Peter 5:13 2 Peter 1:10

[@mr.b2107]

You both have some things not right. I hope you understand that revelation 13 is about the last two beast systems. So Matt 24 is the order of events of the last days and of those last two beast systems. So Matt 24:4-13 is of the ending of that first beast system which gets wounded to death which gives way to a kingdom reign age where the whole kingdom gospel message is taught to the whole world. It's the later rain time that seals the saints in there foreheads. Christ mentioned the kingdom messaging in verse 14! Isaiah 2 and Micah 4 is also about that kingdom age reign. Then, the final beast time which is shortened for the elects sake is in verses 15-30 of that Matt 24.

[@mr.b2107]

Also I would like to add that it looks like the end right now but it's the ending of that babylonious beast system and the ending of that age plus we are in the birthing pangs of the new age which fits this pattern in these verses of Revelation 7:1-3 [1]And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. [2]And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, [3]Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

[@brayict]

The saints with the palm branches welcome Jesus and then we are with God, and then the bowls are poured out on humanity as damnation

[@dustinwilcox6821]

@@brayict this comment is a bit unclear, it seems you’re arguing for a PreTrib view? Describing your perspective of it? If you don’t understand the other views, I’d recommend Part 1, where I described all 4 views in detail, and mentioning major passages associated. The link is in the video description above ⬆️

[@russwhite3952]

your only showing 1 rapture event and revelation shows 3 rapture events

[@dustinwilcox6821]

@@russwhite3952 i’m presenting multiple views here, Pre vs Post Trib. Respectively having 2 vs 1 events. Rev doesn’t have any Rapture at all. The book never describes believers going into the air from earth to Heaven. It only shows souls in heaven, which you may interpret as past dead saints, raptured saints, tribulation saints, or interpret as you please to fit whatever presupposition you have.

[@robertdoell4321]

@@dustinwilcox6821 Because Thessalonians and COrinthians say it. Caught up rapture.

[@dustinwilcox6821]

@@robertdoell4321 hello Robert, with all respect, I think you’re misunderstood. Im not claiming the Bible doesn’t include a Rapture, but rather that Revelation does not. The sir above said Rev has 3 Rapture events, but actually it has zero.