So appearantly you reload cancel if you hold the fire button down. I didnt know this at the time. but damage in 8.24 seconds(without reload cancel) is damage in 8.24 seconds lol and is 183. there are two options. damage dealt as game reads. and damage dealt as damage gets dealt. Either way is acceptable depending on how you play the game
@jujunul3 ай бұрын
fallen hope reload way faster than the tooltip, no idea on actual number tho
@ryechew3 ай бұрын
@jujunul I don't have it or I'd test it lol
@pwehDuraSaFace3 ай бұрын
@@ryechew easy to farm on fortres its all 20% drop chance 😀
@viixby94813 ай бұрын
@@jujunul Yes, the reload cancel, goes through almost halfway through the reload bar. So it's very fast. (Just pulled it out).
@christianhellem3 ай бұрын
You are awesome... im a maths nerd myself, .. and a grind masochist.. so I really enjoy this game and your videos are really interessting. You are obviously smarter than me , but we arrive at about the same conclusions, so if it is all wrong at least you are not alone 😊 thanks for the video
@mauriciogomes10913 ай бұрын
Mathematics doesn't apply to me because I miss every shot. 😎
@EliteGamerSigma3 ай бұрын
😎
@danielwilliams75623 ай бұрын
I've had moments like that
@CrackingCritic3 ай бұрын
✊
@stephendacruz1793 ай бұрын
You miss 100% of the shots that you miss
@Double0hTater3 ай бұрын
Avg tamer with max fire rate enjoyer
@Cyberlockz3 ай бұрын
Crazy to see you grow from 2.7k to 15.7k in 3 days
@ReignBus3 ай бұрын
He’s growing so fast cause he’s giving the people who play TFD the most important info aswell as interesting info
@_Nyte_Nyte_Time_3 ай бұрын
@@ReignBusmy guy is somehow making math interesting when i never gave a shit throughout high school math classes, yet im finding myself intrigued with this content
@flakcannon7223 ай бұрын
So many people making clickbate, empty of any real info vids that when this guy really tried he stood out enough that people take notice. His big problem will be keeping content real while producing enough to keep the algorithm on his side.
@neoconker2k83 ай бұрын
@_Nyte_Nyte_Time_ It just goes to show alot of teachers don't understand how to make learning fun/interesting.
@grnaoui3 ай бұрын
16k now
@Druidavet3 ай бұрын
As a biology nerd, I appreciate the math nerds helping me out with videogames by doing all the math I can't
@davidevans89963 ай бұрын
As an anthropology nerd, I love watching it all come together.
@trash69603 ай бұрын
As someone who understands math but isn't formally educated, I find that math is crucial for understanding games like these. Without clear calculations and equations, it feels like just guessing when trying to figure out things like damage and resistances.
@deanmoriarty15193 ай бұрын
As a making and eating nachos nerd, I appreciate the math nerds helping me out with video games by doing all the math I can't because my hands are full.
@sloppyslush98583 ай бұрын
As a coding nerd, I appreciate the math nerds helping me out in video games by doing all the math that I cba to do knowing how tedious the systems can be. Like how are you supposed to calculate the weak point modifier when it's uptime is entirely dependant on the players accuracy which varies from person to person? There's no exact ratio like with crit so numbers will never be 100% accurate. The guys that do the math are legends.
@FrostFatalis3 ай бұрын
They should add some kind of damage screen in the testing area, where it can show you the total damage and damage per second. When you change mods in the area you can test it again to figure out which mods are best for your weapons and for each faction of enemy
@ryechew3 ай бұрын
@Frost-xv2my then everyone would know there math needs work lol
@Infamous_SSJR3 ай бұрын
Remnant has this feature
@xSpeakerYT3 ай бұрын
@@ryechew That's only if the damage per second the game showed you was correct. If they messed up the math this bad, they'd probably mess that up too.
@oOcyberNoidOo3 ай бұрын
Sustained dps vs dps ,the game probably dont take the reloads into account
@reliquent1593 ай бұрын
I was pretty surprised the laboratory DOESN'T have this feature. You would think it would show total damage dealt at least with a timer so you can calculate dps yourself. I'd imagine its coming later on.
@Steebyn3 ай бұрын
Dod is a good dude, he knows his stuff. He is more than willing to combine resources. Reach out to him!
@Nomadic_Gaming3 ай бұрын
dod gave him the calcs me and someone got dod to make his review of ryes math and show his rye here has ego because his channel blew up suddenly and he doesnt wanna say i was wrong dod and a handful of smaller channels who have done this sorta stuff for years for games already figured this out and rye here refuses to see the forest for the trees they show exact math w testing and proof it works rye here is like oh the game is wrong its displaying the wrong numbers he refuses to believe what the gsme which is the ultimate calculator and claiming he is right the fact that he references dod but copes and says he doesnt know how he got his results then pushes some sponsor wannabe bs to downlod a dif program that isnt the game to do these massive leaps to make HIS formula work when it doesnt in the game where it matters while dod and others does yeah no this is infuriating honestly i hate seeing people blow up for bad info or clickbait bs while other channels dont and they are the ones doing the work
@blacknova77893 ай бұрын
@@Nomadic_Gaming you seem like a huge hater lol. The guy admits his mistake then corrects himself and shows examples and explains himself, but you see 'EGO'. If anything, dod can always make another response to this video disproving it if he can. Also, the game numbers ARE wrong. That's not an opinion, its a fact....we literally ALL know that the numbers don't include element and weakpoint...so how could the dps number in the game be right?????
@Nomadic_Gaming3 ай бұрын
@@blacknova7789 the game number displayed on the wep is wrong when you shoot something the numbers shown w his calc are wrong dods are correct meaning you csn use his formula for dmg on hit of weakpoint crit crit weakpoint and thus calc actual dps that is the problem rye is forcing himself down this wrong idea of my formula needs to be the math to make the dps on the gun match my math vs his math showing what the actual dps is you dont day its wrong then build a formula to prove it right vs finding the math of what the actual damage is then doing calcs for proper dps both burst and sustained and hes coping w these oh reload and rof is bugged no it isnt again other channels their math is correct because its taking the games math filling in what it does and doesnt show and gives us the proper end number to gauge dps by rye is simply dying on this hill he even describes it as defending his formula but is saying its not right because the game isnt no the game calculations for what it does calc are correct it just leaves out stuff you account for its simple and hes over complicating it for no reason i like his presentation style and the fact hes trying todo the math on this but doing it wrong doesnt help the community or game neither does pushing outside apps or programs for whatever weird shilling that was when that isnt even needed others did it on a gd spread sheet ffs no extra programs clock changes blah blsh needed again over complications for the sake if proving a premise
@rickyjanzen66843 ай бұрын
Dod's problem is that he comes across as very abrasive. I don't fault him for this, as a lot of more technical-minded people are like this. However, his followers are frequently even more so, creating a very black and white "my guy's right, your guy's flat wrong and refuses to acknowledge my guy is right" environment. The best thing is to let Dod do his thing, everyone else do theirs. A clarification on why a formula is different (like this video) may be in order, but I unsubscribed to Dod (and a couple of others) during The Division 2 because it just delved into back and forth "no, you!" petty argument response videos. I'd absolutely hate to see that happen here.
@blacknova77893 ай бұрын
@@rickyjanzen6684 agreed 100% there is a way to pool information together and correct mistakes without coming off as a tool. People will always flock to the person who doesn’t come off abrasive as you said!
@weslawrence8883 ай бұрын
I know for the Thundercage, the reload says 1.4. But the negative special effect has -reload speed, and as you get dupes, it goes down to 0. However the 1.4 never changes.
@Klozen13 ай бұрын
I think that's a translation issue and it is the "reload rate" for the special ability. It makes the thunder cage explosion proc not have a cooldown.
@BatuhanGulenc3 ай бұрын
@@Klozen1 makes sense actually
@anarchyinc1243 ай бұрын
@Klozen1 this would make so much more sense, was looking at this start earlier wondering wtf it was actually doing lol. Thanks!
@blackyvertigo3 ай бұрын
@@Klozen1no. With only one upgrade I’ve had the proc go off immediately consecutively several times without any kind of cooldown.
@vewyscawymonsta3 ай бұрын
@@Klozen1 Unfortunately not the case. There's no cooldown, it's just a proc chance.
@CyberdyneSystems4353 ай бұрын
You’re a badass! You admit when you’re wrong and find a way to improve! We need more people like you!
@RUTGERMORTENSEN3 ай бұрын
Dude just put on the coolest looking gun like everyone else
@Theheartslove3 ай бұрын
Not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need!
@Mistelteyn3 ай бұрын
Great content! I/We really appreciate your videos. I always keep in mind that the DPS is only true if you hit the target :D
@alphatiger17603 ай бұрын
hey man, really appreciate you doing all the testing and math for the community, i found something that might help. Ive noticed this the most on the Fallen Hope AR, where when you hold down the fire button while reloading, the reload "circle" is barely over half when the gun starts to shoot again with a full mag. I briefly tested this with a few wepons like the Signivores Proof GL and the Wave Of Light SR and it seemed to me that they all dont quite line up with thier reload icon animation.
@dmgb56943 ай бұрын
This is why I don’t trust reload and fire rate stats. In Remnant 2 and Helldivers 2 (iirc) i had to manually test all the weapons’ reloads and fire rates. Remnant was particularly bad. Ofc ur formula is correct idk how ppl are disagreeing. There are some tricks you can do in-game to increase your DPS though, like manually reloading after your last bullet to remove 1 bullet’s worth of time, so the 6 would become 5.66, resulting in a 4.2% increase in DPS. The strength of this will depend on the fire rate and reload of a given weapon. There’s also reload cancelling as mentioned by another comment, but idk when in the animation you can cancel it so I can’t speak to that. Great content as usual! Mistakes happen, the quality of these vids is still great
@SomehowUnsurprising3 ай бұрын
You can cancel it right as the new mag is inserted into the weapon by either rolling, grappling, using ability or melee. The mag insert makes a sound for you too if you really wanna get the timing down perfectly.
@xHaidax3 ай бұрын
There are also dmg types and resistances like „pierce“
@Bur3u3 ай бұрын
Восхищаюсь вами профессор! с недавнего времени смотрю каждое ваше видео и прошу продолжайте в том же духе! нам нужно больше математики!
@zentrifuge90813 ай бұрын
Just the way I like it, calculated. Precise. The joy love shows. The effort and quality is magnificent. Subbed of course :D
@skindiesel003 ай бұрын
"And that is why... I'm psychic" 😂
@tylerhardy20783 ай бұрын
Love this kind of content for the first descendant awesome vid!
@Dante_S550_Turbo3 ай бұрын
If you noticed when dodging and seeing the reload bar you can dodge with some weapons close to the reload bar being full and your gun is reloaded while others aren't. The animation has to finish, even in the game the reload bar is off from the true reload time on most weapons. You aren't rolling mid reload the reload and skipping it. The reload finishes before you roll, or the roll cancels your reload.
@meerloo.3 ай бұрын
I dont understand everything in ur vids and thats on me but i still like to watch them to try understand the game more keep it up💪🏼 i would like to see a build video on some guns and chars with ur knowledge
@ryechew3 ай бұрын
I'm trying to find ways for people to under stand the math in games
@meerloo.3 ай бұрын
@@ryechew u doing everything right imo but its just my understanding for math it never was a thing i was good at
@Nxghaud3 ай бұрын
Love that u show ur work n clarify mistakes
@ragedtank61773 ай бұрын
Bill rye the mathematics guy, good on you for making a stance and defending it with facts. Rather than "trust me guys, I know".
@OrphanEaterxo3 ай бұрын
Another good video from you that helps me, you're doing the lords work, thank you. Now I can only hope you will bless us again and do a video on weapon stats (Weapon readjustment)
@Longspout153 ай бұрын
Once the magazine is loaded in the animation you can cancel the animation , and in my testing (don’t have recorded data unfortunately) certain weapons animations are FASTER.
@obrien11213 ай бұрын
Round 2 Let's go! Next stop, breaking Kyle!
@Prodig3yXunleashed3 ай бұрын
Learned long division and advanced arithmetic to learn the exact numbers of every single shot so now the games fixed and every piece of content is easy now 🤗
@LivenrightHalo23 ай бұрын
Im curious if decendants have a built in attack speed modifier for guns or whats accounting for that extra attack speed
@TheArtz192 ай бұрын
leveling weapons is annoying even with the bunny cave or whatever else so I'm still questioning what weapon to put materials into. i know that it is probably based on what type of content I'm doing, and somehow that hasn't really helped me finalize my decision. i have got my bunny and my thundercage both to mid power maybe, and i have heard at least one person saying that you can beat the entire game with just a thundercage its so good. but if i already have a bunny for mobbing, i am not sure that i need a mobbing gun like thundercage to be maxed. i just barely managed to get a python finished and tried a bit before work to get the leveling going. since it was such an issue to get one, i wonder if i could manage or mentally last through getting more to at least reduce the recoil. after all of that I'm not sure i would want to up a Tamer, but perhaps the answer is a eternal willpower. at the end of the day i just don't know, perhaps by the time i am finished farming the last piece of Ultimate Gley i will have more of a clue. although i realize that perhaps if i am going to use Gley for bossing, then maybe that simply means to all in the vestigial organ.
@viixby94813 ай бұрын
Reloads get cancelled by shooting or rolling, etc., it's not that the reload time is off, it's that you're able to shoot before the reload is fully finished. (You can see your reload bar going away before it's full). This is because games often give you the ammo count, before the animation is fully finished. Meaning if you can cancel the animation; 'Reload Canceling', then you can get out a bit more DPS, this is common in other shooter games, but it's not as common for you to be able to cancel a reload by shooting, making it very useful in this game in particular. I should note, this doesn't make your numbers wrong, it's just less of the game having wrong reload timers, and more of a simple common bug in shooters, allowing you to dish out a bit more DPS.
@DMminion_Tech3 ай бұрын
Reloads can be canceled with grapple also and it's a little faster. However different types of guns can be reload canceled at different times "some can be canceled as early as 20% of reload bar filled and some as late as 80% of reload bar filled".
@ryechew3 ай бұрын
If this was true all guns would be wrong. But they aren't. I just hold the button down. But even if it was the dps numbers still the same
@viixby94813 ай бұрын
@@ryechew The reload cancels are not as consistent among weapons, this is the same in other video games as well. Therefor you can't expect this same effect to be the same among all of the weapons. So my statement still stands, unless you have some other points to bring up I can think about. For example on the Thundercage the reload cancel timer is minimal, it's pretty much finished by the time you cancel it. But the gap is bigger on the Tamer with a big reload, making the pay off much larger. Additionally as the other person mentioned, regardless of what the reload timer is, some weapons just have varying reload cancels, this is because the developer working on it, decides at what point the ammo count should go through, regardless of what the reload timer is actually at.
@AlexHnatiak-xk1qd3 ай бұрын
Canceling the reload animation doesn't increase your dps numbers, but it does allow you to start shooting sooner, therefore giving more dps @ryechew
@damionlerner72683 ай бұрын
The reloading is pretty much like Cod
@bioblade873 ай бұрын
probably a rounding error caused by floats data types for values that should be integers. Add server tick rates into that equation and there's definitely going to be something off.
@nyghtgt3 ай бұрын
you're doing the real work. well done
@mrfuzzyibrows3 ай бұрын
love it when thing pop off with nerds. they fight with numerical formulas and thesis'
@cranberry45663 ай бұрын
Some guns can reload cancel without any canceling like Fallen Hope. You just hold the trigger down and it will start shooting when the reload bar is at 70%. No rolling, no skill cast, no sub melee.
@aka_says23843 ай бұрын
Talk about when preparation meets opportunity. Your channel is growing FAST cuz of all these TFD math classes 🎉👏🏽
@zerotokraken3 ай бұрын
Gley has unlimited ammo with some builds so the formula for her is the cast rate of her ability rather than the reload time and then you would have to factor in the duration to determine rounds fired rather than rounds per mag
@flameninja_3 ай бұрын
The reason why the reload time is cut short is because of an oversight in the game. Once your character puts a new magazine in their gone it is "reloaded", you don't have to finish the reload animation and you can continue firing if you cancel the reload with a dodge/melee or by holding your fire button during the reload. Holding your aim key can also cancel the reload as well as you can't reload while aiming and the game won't allow you to aim until it is in that "reloaded" state, in which you will also be able to fire on the same frame you aim down your sight. Because of this oversight, there's a reduction to reload time of all weapons (though it isn't consistent because of reload animations being slower than others). If you can figure out the timing of this cancelation for all weapons then you'd be able to find the true effective dps of all weapons but it would be so much work that it's likely better to just calculate with the given reload speed in-game or cut off 20% of the reload time for all weapons and have an approximate dps for all weapons instead of a true dps.
@StuBoi-nWo3 ай бұрын
Wrong. The reload time being cut short after the last round is fired is because a firing interval is removed. you should check out Dods video
@flameninja_3 ай бұрын
@@StuBoi-nWo Oh, so it being cancelable is just due to an oversight in fire intervals and not in animations? Also, I'll be sure to check it out.
@demanz48553 ай бұрын
Reloads animations are only canceled if your roll or skill animation take equal to or more than the frames left for reload, it is not saving time just allowing you to have more movement
@JJokerMoreau3 ай бұрын
To an extent. This was the argument I had to deal with when trying to explain how Nova's anti armor shells was significantly better than the alternative. You're never going to have the ability to do uninterrupted attacks continuously in a game where you're able to be one shot. So you need to factor in and consider how low reload/magazine needs to be compared to total damage and fire rate that is practical to use. Obviously, this being a non PvP game, it isn't nearly as big of an issue. But I've encountered the problem in other games like DST.
@Nick-783 ай бұрын
You’re awesome dude. Thank you for doing all the math for me so I don’t have to take the time lol
@FunElite3 ай бұрын
Every single weapon I've used reloads faster, then stated. On top of that you can reduce the reload time even more by cancelling it with a skill. In regards to dps everything feels so off the statsheet
@gradiusiii37553 ай бұрын
It's important to keep in mind that DPS gets misleading in certain situations where your gun never gets a chance to reload. EX1: Tamer against enraged Hanged Man is a lot worse than other guns because it's effective DPS is capped by the boss's incoming laser attack. EX2: those invincibility orbs on bosses that also have timed self-invincibility. The spreadsheets that don't include cycle time are good for selecting a weapon that has a lot of 'burst damage'.
@blackyvertigo3 ай бұрын
One of that matters here. He is just trying to determine the base actual dps of the guns while standing and shooting endlessly. Any other variables are just that.
@karaokepanda86023 ай бұрын
I really, REALLY, want a Valby build from you. I can't wait til you start building. Liking all your videos and can't wait to see some builds. I really wanna know how to best build Valby for skill damage effectively.
@jpibmg3 ай бұрын
Best valby ability build is crit with supply moisture. Stack all skill crit chance/dam and make sure your reactor has crit dam/chance
@jpibmg3 ай бұрын
Best valby ability build is crit with supply moisture. Stack all skill crit chance/dam and make sure your reactor has crit dam/chance
@psyjinx3 ай бұрын
Try Freyna and get the poisoned footprints mod and use the movement speed gun mod. Actually kinda fun.
@karaokepanda86023 ай бұрын
@@jpibmg I'll give this a try as I just went through the reactors I was saving for her and have a gold/purp double crit one waiting.
@djicode51463 ай бұрын
Have you accounted for the code related to time ping etc. It can be anywhere from micro seconds to seconds per second. If it is off by 500 milliseconds per second over 6 seconds, thats almost 3 seconds. At 250ms, it's more like 1.5 seconds but it's always going to be within a range depending on your connection to the server. The math would relate to your connection.
@djicode51463 ай бұрын
It's funky stuff due to connections. Look at how fighting games do predictive damage. It's really complex and involves frame skipping etc to make reactions as quick as possible but you cannot calculate it easily as you would think.
@djicode51463 ай бұрын
You are comparing raw numbers which are subjective, You need to get 31 people with the same setup doing the test to get an r close to 1 which would allow you to establish where the delay is that skews the numbers. Someone on fiber with a 30 ping will not do the same damage as someone on cable with a 200 ping, or someone on DSL with a 300+ ping. You have to take that into account. Ex. 500 fire rate per minute is 12 rounds a second. If it's tied to FPS performance and ping with a 1 second interval at 100ms, you could be off as much as 12 rounds * dps per second. Between reloads it could hugely affect your damage based on dps, reload times and ping which is per user.
@nwinchi6903 ай бұрын
The reload of ALL weapons can be cancelled. You can cancel it by rolling, and even just shooting again. Some needs just holding the button, some needs to press it (i think for 3-round, or single firing mode) If the reload is cancelled before 50%, you don't have the ammos. If you cancel it after 50%, you have your full ammo and can shoot. EDIT : not all weapons are 50%, the tamer for example is about 75-80%) That's why our cycle is shorter. I might be wrong though
@psyjinx3 ай бұрын
Yeah, I cancel mine with Freyna Q all the time.
@minzekatze3 ай бұрын
you sadly are wrong it heavily depends on the weapon for example the willpower is able to be cancelled at 50% + but for example the tamer only at 80-90% i haven't tested it on other weapons yet but i heard only a select few are able to ne cancelled at 50%
@nwinchi6903 ай бұрын
@@minzekatze You're right, i edited my comment
@billwalker10003 ай бұрын
@@minzekatzethunder cage is at 25%
@vewyscawymonsta3 ай бұрын
The Blue Lion or whatever, you can cut it down to almost nothing. Kinda crazy.
@Angelo._3 ай бұрын
I wish the game added the extra damage from the randomized Firearm ATK% stat. And maybe an extra tab to add up the bonus damage to colossi/vulgas groups. Though that's just me being lazy to add up myself. But applying percentages to a number, I never understood. I failed math hard during my days in school.
@nathiirblacktongue16833 ай бұрын
A personal dps meter in the game would be nice. I've beaten all the hardmode bosses solo that I've attempted but i def want to know what damage I'm pumping out.
@alonzobanks70463 ай бұрын
Nexon watching this video and going like... Dude, who has the time to sit there and watch our Gun animations frame by frame and math them together... w.e lets figure out our next Money Grab.
@keggar75183 ай бұрын
I have a wild theory that may be total nonsense, but hear me out. This involves some weird assumptions about timing and the reload time maybe not being related to the reload bar. So first, our rounds/min is 180, or 3 rounds/sec, or more importantly 0.33333 seconds/round 1. We start our cycle with bullet one being fired at (close to) 0 seconds. 2. Then we add 0.33333 seconds 17 times, to accommodate the 17 remaining bullets in the magazine. 3. We are now at 5.66661 seconds 4. NOW we add whatever amount of time is between the last bullet firing and the reload bar appearing (in the video, we see that at least some time is spent here since, at 5.91 seconds into the cycle, the magazine is empty but the reload bar doesn't show up until 6.13) 5. The reload bar fills (calculated in this video to be ~2 seconds) 6. Some time passes between the reload bar being filled and the first round being fired (this is not necessarily the 0.33333 seconds/round rate, because we aren't actually firing yet). 7. The first round of the second cycles is fired (at 8.05 in the video) and we start again from step 1. What if the sheet reload stat isn't reflecting the time to fill the reload bar, but instead the time from the last bullet being fired until the game thinks the weapon is reloaded and ready to start spinning up the next cycle? Essentially, what if the reload stat is from the beginning of 4 above to the end of 5 above, not just 5? If we just do this math and add 2.24 seconds to the 5.66661 seconds at which the final bullet fires, we would expect the reload to "finish" at 7.90661 seconds. Sure enough, we look in the video, and sometime around 7.88 seconds, the reload bar is gone. But the next cycle still hasn't started. Essentially, at 7.88 seconds into the cycle, we are somewhere in 6 above. I don't know if this is actually what's going on, why you would report reload times like that if it were, or if there isn't something I'm missing or that's being obfuscated by the reload bar animation clipping a bit. But it may be one plausible explanation for why the reload stats aren't mapping to the reload bar and why the damage calculations are off. If they're assuming all rounds are being fired at a rate of 0.33 rounds/second when the first round may come out more quickly after a reload, the actual dps we calculate would be higher. It would also be a way to justify the drastic discrepancy between sheet reload times and what was found experimentally, that they may actually just be measuring different things.
@mrangel52233 ай бұрын
I think you may find that with different hero's in the game the animation for reloading is going to be a debate where you can animation cancel the reload just by holding the trigger down during reloading which shoots the bullets before the time frame of the actual reloading the gun states. So firing constantly and reloading then holding the trigger button during this time will fire the gun with a full mag before the reload has finished. Like a mini animation cancel
@ondrejvasak10543 ай бұрын
I don't think you factored in the fact that the reaload animation can be cancelled in half and still succesfully reload. It probably won't make a huge difference, but it is potentially a factor in dps calculation.
@sezaremadehliel58493 ай бұрын
You can shoot earlier by doing a "skill check", if you shoot as soon as the descendant puts a mag in the weapon, it's an intended feature to lower reload times, at least that's what I heard from a streamer.
@blazeffect15263 ай бұрын
Awesome work man now I can do more testing 💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
@shazam23233 ай бұрын
the math only works if the game is actually firing said number of bullets and they actually hit the target, if they can't even tell us accurate numbers/dps who knows what else isn't happening correctly
@emilioocana46853 ай бұрын
You can Cancel the animation of the reload by maintining the shooting button,rolling,using abilities,etc. It seems that it's what happened in de 2,2s and I experienced multiple times with different guns. I think it's based on the reload time.
@FrostFatalis3 ай бұрын
Alot of mods are multiplicative in this game, i hate that. There should be some Mods that become additive to the base stats.
@poti7323 ай бұрын
OR AT LEAST STATE Properly that it is multiplicative. I add one random ass mode to my build and boom 1,5x dmg , like wtf nexon.
@minzekatze3 ай бұрын
the blue elemental mods are added im pretty sure
@MuscAnime3 ай бұрын
Im not sure if you know this: for a majority of guns if you roll in the dead middle of the animation or later you can lessen you reload time in half.
@metatrix42513 ай бұрын
Three things : 1. It won't happen because it's humans that are playing the game. It may be a mathematical world, a human usually won't pull off perfect damage cycles. It doesn't mean your math is wrong though haha, I'm just answering your question why it won,t happen ;P 2. You seem to take for granted that you know exactly when to start the count. How do you know for sure that you are starting and ending the count at the exact same time the game is? Because there can be invisible and/or variable delays with the count, in relation to the animation, the internet latency and general responsiveness. You think game starts the count with the mouse click or at the beginning of animation? Or maybe when the first bullet leaves the gun? There is plenty of of room here for even half a second of delay. I think. 3. You don't have the code that the game is based on, you only have pure mathematics. But the game is a world of contextual and intertwined algorithms so even if it is mathematical in nature, you are still missing some possibly very significant data. The mathematical environment that you are formulating your maths from is like space, but the mathematical environment of the game is probably filled with other things that can interfere. Unless you are a game developer and are familiar with the inner workings of the code-to-game funnel, i'd say you should be careful before saying that this is nothing more than pure maths! So those are the points I would oppose to your line of thoughts. Very cool process mate. You are tripping and are very dedicated! For the love of science ;)
@rotsechs43823 ай бұрын
would be intersting to know if passives that have firearm atk listed as the value for the proc generated actually take just flat firearms as value for that proc or if they take weak and crit into account to. so far i presumed they dont. that its just firearms atk. so im maxing out my t4 thunder cage base atk first. sitting at 500k sheatdmg atm. cant remember base atk value.
@trentonpreston34633 ай бұрын
I think the difference in time can be accounted for by the lost of the final "firing cycle" that is interrupted by the reload animation. For example, the gun you used fired 3 bullets per second, which means that the time in between each shot was .3333... seconds. The final "firing cycle" of .33333 seconds never occurs because the reload animation starts IMMEDIATELY after the final shot. This would subtact .3333 seconds away from you initially calculated cycle time. Obviously this is different than the .24 seconds lost during your experiment, but a .09 second difference could easily be attributed to visual misrepresentation, frame limitations, human error, etc.
@trentonpreston34633 ай бұрын
Also, this is just a hypothesis, not meant to be an insult as I'm still trying to figure it out myself
@MemphisMG863 ай бұрын
i hope in the future you can turn off the automatic white adjustment of the camera. just the beginning of the video with felt 314x cuts each time the "black" top has a different color. crazy
@Linkman6023 ай бұрын
In game ticks not IRL seconds possibly for anomalies
@SonUriio3 ай бұрын
I do want to ask, if you calculated the Crush/Pierce/Burst damage factor that each weapon has.
@JasonKwan-g6d3 ай бұрын
reload stat is bait because reloads can be animation canceled, fallen hope is a good example because it instantly reloads, it has the fastest clip to gun animation speed allowing u to reload at 15% bar if u hook cancel
@rcade63873 ай бұрын
Ah the old using your TV as a whiteboard trick.
@kevin11humor3 ай бұрын
Man i just hope they fix their numbers on guns so you dont have to keep doing this, a dps target like division would be nice too. Idk how acccurate it is but seemed good to me.
@NaTzuSalamander3 ай бұрын
in warframe we call this sustained dps, if you dont take into account the reload its burst dps
@Cackinator2 ай бұрын
Hey can you do a video explaining elemental damage? I was doing some testing and noticed elemental damage was very inconsistent and the damage that you do would always be vastly lower then what your elemental damage stat is. I was using a forest gaze with 182,683 fire damage on it against dead bride solo and the fire would only hit for 50k-80k damage on a non crit
@Cackinator2 ай бұрын
Also I’m pretty sure that’s why elemental damage doesn’t increase the dps stat, the game knows it just determines el damage on a random bs number so it’d be impossible to accurately tell you how much more damage you are going to do
@mongoose71713 ай бұрын
Below video 2nd tip talks about reload cancelling. 4:25 in. Different weapons can be cancelled at different stages into reload time. It varies quite a lot. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXXSnptrm7ejeZosi=At3fNMpBz3F9Fkeq
@Hastur_TKY2 ай бұрын
I wonder if they do their calculation based on in game ticks and assume it runs at a smooth 60fps (or whatever random fps number the chose). That's the only defense I have for them, otherwise they are simply incompetent, and I hate when the devs can math and the games math isn't mathing.
@reregfys71693 ай бұрын
its clear pretty fast the game doesn't calculate weakpoint and ele dmg. you can see that when swapping out modules.
@GamingGridOfficial3 ай бұрын
Bold of you to assume I hit all my shots
@yackemup3 ай бұрын
Before watching.....I'd guess maybe range? Being out of optimal ranges for what you're using? Orrrr some weapons have like critical modifiers?
@ImmolationBloom3 ай бұрын
I’m curious what the most mathematically perfect Thundercage is, brilliant stuff as always!
@blackyvertigo3 ай бұрын
Prob from the guy that killed hard devourer in 32 seconds with it without any added ability damage from the character.
@taintedmei3 ай бұрын
I really don’t know much about math and stuff and the question maybe is dumb ig but could it be that the connection to the server has influence on this?
@parasitika3 ай бұрын
Shoutout to Davinci Resolve for being such a goated free editing software
@guitarmancan42723 ай бұрын
Idk if this makes a difference but if you tap the fire button towards the end of the reload he will start shooting sooner than if you were to hold the button down
@TheMastaDazza3 ай бұрын
Have you got multiple channels or has KZbin unsubbed me? I've been subbed since you did the calculations for Remnant 2's damage and armour but for some reason I've had to resub
@ZaneDidIt3 ай бұрын
Sweet. I can stop farming for the perforator now… the drop rates are insanely low😑
@Shadowreaper84353 ай бұрын
I don't think it makes a difference here, but keep in mind that the default windows calculator setting is not very smart if you click the 3-line-menu in the top left, there is a setting called something like "scientific" (mine's in german for some reason, should be the second option) to give an example: if I type 3+5*2 into the default, it first completes the 3+5 calculation and then multiplies this by 2, meaning it gives me 16, which is wrong. the scientific one waits for you to enter the entire calculation and then does it's job and properly calculates 13 in this example just something I wanted to note because it can potentially lead to errors, though I doubt it would create any here I just don't like seeing the default one in math centered videos is all, great work though, keep it up. don't forget to rest though :) (there's also many other cool options in that menu, for converting temperatures, currencies, mass and many more. and seemingly nobody knows about this)
@spaycee90823 ай бұрын
the game says he does 84 and he tells me that the game is wrong but it is literally showing what you just said was wrong. Honestly it’s just an interesting thing to watch what he says but he imo hasn’t proven anything wrong that has be worth while games math always approximate everything
@TheNineRaven3 ай бұрын
On a different note maybe the people who made the default calculator expected you to know basic rules of math and how to transfer that to said calculator
@blackyvertigo3 ай бұрын
3+5*2 is 13? Shouldn’t that be 3+(5*2)? I was taught in school that if there are parenthesis you calculate that first but if not you calculate left to right. Edit: just checked in excel and it calculates both the same way with or without parenthesis so the windows calculator is just flat out wrong
@davailama18083 ай бұрын
@@blackyvertigo U always do division/multiplication first regardless wtf do they teach at school these days
@kayetan24873 ай бұрын
soooo where is the spread sheet for all weapons with correct values? xD good work! greets from germany
@psyjinx3 ай бұрын
Yo Nexon, while you're all studying this, can y'all remove the -20% accuracy on the Lv. 4 unique ability for Fallen Hope? I'd prefer to not catalyst an accuracy mod on a MAXED ULTIMATE ASSAULT RIFLE. Anyway, thanks, math guy.
@Bombless3 ай бұрын
Here we go!
@MrCRIMSON10003 ай бұрын
math does not lie !
@jackblades72073 ай бұрын
Спасибо за труд!
@Sensei_Moshi3 ай бұрын
My thundercage has 13% crit rate rolled onto it The F1 Menu shows me 20+2.6= 22.6% critrate However in the mod Menu it still shows me 20% critrate and if I use the 39% critrate mod it still just shows me 27.8% so I miss the 2.6% of the rolled Stat
@smizzmeister3 ай бұрын
Affixes on weapons do not show on module sheet dps, only tooltip DPS. They do show on F1 weapon tooltips thought they are separate from the mods (as in the mods do not show on F1 info, either. They are also not multiplicative; it does not modify base). Crit DMG on affix and in module will change tooltip dps (when looking at weapon in weapon slots). Crit DMG on weapon will not change module DPS. Crit DMG in modules will not change F1 info. They DO still affect the weapon, and are additive, i.e. 36.3% cdmg on affix and 74.8% cdmg in module will give you x2.188 to critdmg. You can test this with two of the same weapons - one with a crit damage roll, and the other with any of recoil, weapon change speed, bonus fireatk (as long as the lab enemy you're spawning doesn't benefit, or you have the exact same roll on each wep), status effect, rounds per mag, etc. (things that won't affect bullet to bullet damage). I've tested this using a Red Wolf with these numbers, and a Red Wolf with no beneficial affix. It has a base of 1.8, F1 shows 2.453 (+36.3%), module shows 3.146 (+74.8%), bullet damage of 4746 gives crit of 18036. Red Wolf without affix gives 14935. Very dumb that it doesn't communicate stat changes. But the math does check out.
@agetoki75573 ай бұрын
So if the weapon DMG is off for every weapon, and I am comparing a gun that does 10k DPS and a gun that does 9k DPS, since both of those numbers are incorrect, I should still use the 10K DPS gun. Is that correct? Or is it more complicated that?
@susus11303 ай бұрын
small question, but i was looking which module to level and i saw that some modules that have 2 attributes like Pinpoint shot has firearm atk +8% and weak point damage +2% only increase the first stat, at least thats what the stat preview showed me
@salomaolopes3 ай бұрын
I dont really care about DPS showing in game, Python DPS is fuc%$ low, but the DPS increase when you shot on weak point is just insane, DPS in game is just showing if you have crit, if dont it sucks but I'm happy bc it's just on paper
@abyssamun5883 ай бұрын
Am I the only that though there is a float casting as an integer on some type of weapons that lead to faster reloading ?
@ii_Duzzy3 ай бұрын
Wonderful video, can you do a comparison involving the normal reload vs half reload then rolling to stop animation? Rolling your character auto reloads your magazine if you roll at the right time during reload, im curious if the time is actually shorter or if the roll animation takes long enough that theres actually no difference
@FAMINE_R13 ай бұрын
For the folks that dont believe the in-game dps is off, you can literally pick up snipers and scout rifles that have 70+ fire rate yet have a dps lower than the actual weapon dmg lol
@jonblaz10273 ай бұрын
Why would you factor in the reload time when calculating dps? You're not firing or hitting a target?
@Zarviya3 ай бұрын
Do you think they'll update all the numbers or just let people figure it out later on?
@BoxyBrown7173 ай бұрын
So what is the deal with prefixes in this game on the common weapons? Like what is the difference between an Ominous Hound and Nightmare Hound if they are the same gun?
@HeyMyNameIsTony3 ай бұрын
Hey Ryechew, big fan of the maths your doing for TFD, been binging all your videos as they come out lol. In doing some of my own weak point testing I noticed things were off by a 0.5 or 0.6x additional damage mult. Any idea what's been happening there? For example, a base Tamer with no mods has a 1x weak point multiplier. But it actually does 1.6x damage to weak points in testing (crit or not). If you use mods to increase the displayed weak point damage to, say, 1.2x, it ends up actually giving you 1.8x (which is the shown 1.2 plus the hidden, flat 0.6) I tested a few guns, for example I noticed Assassin's Edge (and others) only has a flat 0.5 (displayed 2x, but is actually 2.5x), and there seems to be no rhyme or reason for whether ultimates or certain classes get either 0.5x or 0.6x... If you had any additional ideas about these hidden values, I'd love to hear them!
@ryechew3 ай бұрын
These are dope!!! We have a section for this in the discord
@alfonsodaleja37023 ай бұрын
I found the same thing with headshot multipliers! Each gun class has its own headshot multiplier but the actual damage numbers are always higher. I guess the bottomline is the values the game says it uses aren't consistent with the actual numbers it uses in calculating actual damage. Personally I just use Attack DMG and calculate from there. I usually get accurate values, and then some (since the game has all these hidden values).
@Wolfplayer993 ай бұрын
@@alfonsodaleja3702 Did you factor in the damage type of the weapons like Crush, Pierce and Burst? I think if you attack with the type that the enemy is weak to you get a 10% damage increase.
@alfonsodaleja37023 ай бұрын
@@Wolfplayer99 Yup. Similar results
@Harmonic143 ай бұрын
All weak point damage gets a base 1.5x multiplier, at least on normal enemies, and it's additive. If your gun has a base 1.5x, you get 2x WP damage. If it has 2x, you get 2.5x.
@gregvfx13 ай бұрын
Why do you have a jump cut almost after every work you speak? It's very distracting. Speak normally, we can follow what you say with a seocnd or two between your words. It's natural. And, you dont have to spend so much time editing to remove thisg like breathing, or pauses. Please
@sourg_rage3 ай бұрын
we need to push Nexon to fix their reload and fire rates numbers in game. your calculations are right, however crit damage, weak point damage and elemental damage MUST be taken into account if we want to compare net DPS apples to apples. Let's say we hit heads X% of the time (should be adjusted by a user), there is an additional complexity of probabilities that crit procs, but weak point doesn't, weak point procs, but crit doesn't and both proc dealing massive damage. This needs to be taken into account with compound probabilities.
@kasuro24723 ай бұрын
Im way too stupid for this stuff but i respect it
@nanounevermore92903 ай бұрын
did you share the spreadsheet with all the weapons somewhere?
@Monk-Darlington3 ай бұрын
Just doing dmg x fire rate / 60 tells you half the dps numbers are off before you even try to factor in crit / elemental / weak point damage. Though I do wish everything was a lot closer to one another at 100 so we get to pick weapons based on looks and play style over clearly superior options.
@xSpeakerYT3 ай бұрын
But dmg x fire rate / 60 isn't you're dps. You're missing your mag size and reload speed.
@Monk-Darlington3 ай бұрын
@@xSpeakerYT it is your dps, it's not your sustained dps, but you can go further to calculate that and it works as a quick way to compare guns, without doing a full deep dive.
@Harmonic143 ай бұрын
@@Monk-Darlingtonit's not your DPS. You can't take what you're doing some of the time and say that's what your gun does all of the time
@Monk-Darlington3 ай бұрын
@@Harmonic14 it is, iitterally is the base line damage per second, what it is not, and I never claimed it was, is the sustained dps, but if you cannot factor in reload times and ammo count to approximate what is better, that's on you abd again, I never claimed it was.