The REAL Reason SRAM Red Is So Fast

[@Penalist]

The tools in the background are really sharp looking. 😁

[@Mapdec]

lesson learnt, when we have to rush.. stop down.

[@pawelodz8050]

Terrible, just terrible

[@frankrussi]

@@Mapdec vas this shot on iPhone?

[@Mapdec]

@@frankrussi just shot in a rush to meet embargo

[@Si_B_Cumbria]

Loving this, you must be buzzing from the event. Smiling watching you interviewing Robbie Awesome mate 🙌🏻

[@Mapdec]

It was great to be invited. Thanks Si.

[@letolollers3729]

Those 45grams will def get me to TDF level

[@Mapdec]

For sure 😂

[@diehardbikes]

You said it perfectly! A premium groupset should shine like jewelry! Ive been calling Sram Red jewelery for years, especially since AXS came out and i started simply referring to it as Bicycle Jewelry. You said exactly what ive been saying for years. Good taste man.

[@Mapdec]

🙏

[@grahambell9831]

Superb video Paul, new Sram groupset 👍 bike build & test ride👍London launch 👌 & McEwen talk, very good 👏.....top presenter & character ! And local build champion here in Gateshead, Nik Vieri......👏. Best video this year for overall & varied content 👏. Chapeau!

[@Mapdec]

Thank you.

[@grahambell9831]

@@Mapdec just speaking as I find Paul, great video 👍. Have a grand weekend 🍻

[@themrch4oskol206]

Hey, just wanted to congratulate you on your fitness and physique. You look great. Good work and have a nice day.

[@Mapdec]

Thank you! You too!

[@ramsden35]

Looks so good on the Look!

[@Mapdec]

It does! Proper bling

[@basvanleeuwen4502]

The FFWD wheels and the bikes' colourscheme goes really well together.

[@grantmaiorana9741]

Cool to see you meet Nic!

[@Mapdec]

I hope we can find a place to publish the whole chat. We got a bit ranty.

[@plentyvalve]

​@@Mapdec please do.....2 great bicycle mechanics!

[@jamesmckenzie3532]

0:17 You caught Nick from Cade Media! Watched their review today as well.

[@global_nomad.]

thanks for sharing with us all those various parts; install and conversations/responses - first video on this i've watched, given the objective trust in your view. - other channels will follow. One point i heard/read was about increased pad clearance, presumably to make set up less finnicky and minimise break rub, which would be great. So looks like upgrade path will be new shifters and calipers, mechs will stay as rival/force and previous gen red crankset...

[@Mapdec]

Thank you. Report back once you have seen some other channels. I was nervous making this.

[@global_nomad.]

@@Mapdec being nervous can be a good thing - means you are exploring new things which you've done nicely. Good to see some of the launch environment as well as the groupset tech. others have stuck to familiar formats - GPLama has been riding it for 2 months but had very little that you or others had, some nice diagrams for comparison though. cade media felt more measured than other recent videos and more objective. gcn didnt do anything unexpected to their formula. Nero show conversation felt less useful and so i didnt watch all of it. embargo makes some sense but clearly most industry side people/youtubers knew a lot more about this for a long time, so timign a bit strange. have seen lots about new/old red comparisons but would be good to understand it against force and also a bit more about brake pad spacing increase and how that changes things. No one (that i've seen) has done that. Your videos stand out for their bike shop/mechanic perspective, but nice to see the other aspects coming in. thanks

[@Mapdec]

@@global_nomad. thank you. It’s hard to compete with channels that have access for weeks rather than days. We have more to learn. Including how to focus 🤦‍♂️

[@garyharmon5386]

Great video. I love SRAM. I have sram mechanical on my 2019 Emonda. SRAM XPLR on my gravel bike and SRAM AXS on my Mtb with XO1 cranks. Pedal safe

[@cityslacker6221]

thanks for the run down.

[@Mapdec]

Thanks for watching

[@bradallen8643]

Nice pickup of details like poor fitting hoods, sloppy cable end grommets, handy hood alignment lines, missing bling on FD. Very thorough review

[@Mapdec]

Thank you.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Hopefully next Spring the hoods will be available separately and will work with my Rival groupset

[@Mapdec]

The levers should be stocked in July. I think they will roll out a Force lever very quickly to match the current Force. I think Rival will be a full overhaul

[@SichardRamuels]

​@@Mapdec Do SRAM have a 5-year cycle for all their groupsets?

[@Mapdec]

@@SichardRamuels not really. I strongly suspect that these levers will roll into current force very fast. Rival will see a complete overhaul next year I’d imagine.

[@Velodictorian]

Looking fwd to replacing my Force hoods with these more ergonomic looking Red hoods. I have small hands and have had some harrowing moments on rough descents with my Force hoods where I’ve had to use 3+ fingers to brake. It will be nice to have a secure grip and just use 1 finger and less effort

[@malabou75]

@@Velodictorian , you can buy the shifters separately with the hose for $440 per side here in the USA. SRAM did not exagerate the 80% decrease in required force to pull the levers. They are so light and easy to actuate. You can easily lock up your brakes! They work with the older SRAM two piece calipers. Reach adjustments are easier to to perform on these. I have mine one click from max inboard. The paddle shifter does not hit the bar, which was a problem with the older shifters. Slightly longer reach though.. May or may not affect you.

[@markhall6026]

Great video enjoyed every minute

[@Mapdec]

Thank you

[@asmaco1]

Even the street price of the full group set nearly breaks my budget for a complete bike. Running costs will also be extremely high, with cassettes costing more than €400. Would really be interested how well the components work in the long run (at least 10.000km).

[@askmeaboutmymixtape]

All of the other axs groups have run well for 10k plus miles of course you’re going to wear down those chainrings

[@Mapdec]

Yeah, to be honest the top tier stuff is never about that. The practical application is always at Force, Ultegra level really.

[@neilbuckley5796]

Maintenance is critical.

[@oftankoftan]

@@Mapdec you misspelled 105 :P

[@Mapdec]

@@oftankoftan that’s where they add durability,

[@YaniofWigan]

After the numerous if not blank marketing/first look KZbin video, defo watched yours first for the details, to be expected ;) What size is that Look frame, would it fit a tall boyo for a test ride?

[@Mapdec]

Thank you. It’s a Large.

[@twl1979]

Life Shimano dura ace fan boy…bought this group….it is awesome

[@robjackson4776]

You guys rock!

[@Mapdec]

Thank you.

[@WeberWoodworking]

Thanks for great video. As I'm still waiting for the new Time Fluidity, I've gone over my group-set choices time and time again. I had settled on Force, the new Red shifters look great, and I was hoping for mineral oil brakes, but I don't know if it's worth the price (guessing $1500 from Force). Hopefully there will be a no-computer option, as I've been in the Garmin system since my Edge 305. Anyway, thanks again for the video!

[@Mapdec]

No option for a full groupset bundle. It won’t take long before the big internet retailers get bagged up ex OEM sets though.

[@valmorell]

I suspect the disc rotors are a little heavier due to using larger aluminium spiders. This has probably been done to reduce vibration and therefore howl. If it works I'll take it every time....

[@GregTitcume]

Same weight

[@scharnley12]

Hi woukd you say I need to go down from 110 stem to 100mm stem to make up for the extra reach on the new levers ??

[@Mapdec]

Personally I didn’t because it’s only 6mm or so. Some folk report they had too. I suspect they were on the limit anyway.

[@scharnley12]

@Mapdec thanks for getting back to me, I will try with what I have then , you can actually adjust the brake levers to come in more I think also which will help. I feel my handlebars feel perfect as they are so going 10mm down might make the bike not feel right even tho ok the hoods feel ok , but I don't ride right ontop of the hoods so should be OK fingers crossed. Thanks again.

[@sebastianreddan1647]

Wow, nothing says disposable income more than having to replace the power meter when my chainrings wear out.

[@glennoc8585]

I've used sram red cranks combined with Shimano for years fir a few reasons. I preferred the feel and speed of Shimano di2. Thr new red shifter is a big improvement

[@eirikkristine]

Can you just buy the leavers and use it with the old SRAM red?

[@Mapdec]

Yes. All AXS branded stuff is compatible. Including the MTB stuff.

[@millermiller75]

Should road bikes go with universal derailleur hangers for direct mount rear derailleurs?

[@Mapdec]

Yes.

[@GHinWI]

It’s wild how road bikes lag behind on certain things. 10k for a bicycle that doesn’t even have suspension and they can’t retool for UDH yet??

[@Mapdec]

@@GHinWI it’s a different line of innovation to MTB, but I get what you mean. Road is firmly focussed on weight, stiffness and aero and a UDH is quite bulky to suit that aim too. I think a universal hanger will happen, but it will need to be one that is light and brings the mech more inbound.

[@tomwoosak]

Doesn't bleed edge give away which oil it use?;)

[@Mapdec]

With the way SRAM has been pushing mineral oil in MTB I wouldn’t have been surprised if this had been too. The lack of any warnings was weird.

[@anthonyVI]

Hi! What size Schwalbe Pro 1s are they? Look massive!

[@Mapdec]

32

[@anthonyVI]

Thanks ​@@Mapdec 👍🏻👍🏻

[@Carftymk]

what is the micro usb cable for? the karoo 3 has a usb c port on gplama's video

[@Mapdec]

For charging the AXS battery

[@TimSchulzks]

Are the problems with SRAM groupsets and the derailleurs solved? There was a time when those derailleurs couldn't be adjusted and the chain fell off regularly. What's your experience?

[@millermiller75]

Why do electric derailleurs need limit screws?

[@Mapdec]

It’s a good question. The H sets the beginning of micro adjustments. After that 🤷‍♂️

[@SandSanta]

The upgrade kit for this seems quite reasonable at ~1800 USD given the fact that it includes a bike computer (though no crankset). Thats not a bad option for folks that want to keep their existing crank setups (especially if they already have a dialed in crank setup)

[@Bricolo06]

I don’t think it’s reasonable. You get only the two shifters and the head unit for the price of the two shifters and the head unit separately. With the derailleurs and chain it’s 3000 (still doesn’t include the 700-1200 crankset (w/wo power meter and 390-470 cassette). So it’s like 4090-4670. For me it just looks like remove items from the bundle to bring the price down. In my head upgrade means shifters and derailleurs, not just shifters and a groupset includes a crankset and a cassette. Not really stopping me from considering it but still it’s a lot of cash.

[@SandSanta]

@@Bricolo06 Yep - you're correct. The retailer I was looking at had an image of the 3k kit inc RD and FD, but the included section just had hoods+brakes and a bike computer which was what the kit actually would ship with. Thats pretty expensive.

[@titouanjn8409]

Still can't get my head around the fact you need to buy brand new powermeters each time you want to swap chainrings... Dumb design and not eco friendly at all. Nice improvements on the shifter shape though !

[@terrywalker7127]

Isn't the cost of the new sram about the same as the new Campy? If so why not Campy? Have you had a chance to try the new Campy? Sorry, I know this is all about the new sram.

[@Mapdec]

You can probabaly answer that yourself if you dig into their gear ratios and battery cost. The campy is about £800 more if you match like for like. Ie, no power meter

[@terrywalker7127]

Got it. Thank you for following up with me.

[@terrywalker7127]

I prefer Assioma pedals anyway.

[@mariourbina7783]

What was the code to the box lol

[@Mapdec]

I’ll announce a winner in a post.

[@HarishChouhan]

Funny how about charging this much, someone at Sram was so lazy, they did not both adding USB-C support for the charger.

[@Cyclingchoice]

Do you really think 5 years will be the norm ? The phase of groupset advancement in the China means Sram and Shimano will be forced to come up with updates frequently. This is not a generation defining group set. But a major revision of the existing platform.

[@Mapdec]

I think a lot depends on future wars and trade laws. The Chinese have become better than ever at copying products but still struggle with stock, parts, distribution and service. It’s also increasingly impossible to keep designs secret if you want to patent them. I think we will see western brands double down on integration, incremental but backwards compatible updates. Anything to tie you into a system that came with a pre built bike.

[@millsshumps1968]

WTF with the London showcase @ Prince Charles cinema. Not being there for years, I hope their prices are still cheaper than all other cinemas in London although I wish they updated the technology of the cinema.

[@Mapdec]

It was a bit retro. We even had sram branded popcorn.

[@finmac5150]

Focus on the wide cam angle!! 🤓😵‍💫

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Micro USB is a slap in the face. On their top tier product it's an embarrassment.

[@petesjk]

Micro usb is backward compatible. No need to use a 20w charger on these small batteries and fry them.

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

@@petesjk Irrelevant... USB-C works fine at low power. No need to use a uni-directional difficult to mate connector and force people to maintain two different cables.

[@petesjk]

@@user-cx2bk6pm2f Irrelevant, my SRAM battery charger uses Micro USB. I don’t need to buy a USB C charger.

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

@@petesjk So Micro-USB is perfect. Ok then, delusional.

[@petesjk]

@@user-cx2bk6pm2f I never said that, which means you’re the delusional one. And USB C is perfect? Will you be delusional enough to give me the perfect gift and reason to call you double delusional?

[@andrewhayes7055]

@£3k I'll pass😆

[@Nick-lm9hg]

Your camera isn't focusing

[@ryandodd8941]

the disposable power meter is insulting

[@Mapdec]

Yeah. Its about as insulting as the price of replacement DA chainrings. Top end kit can get bonkers.

[@ryandodd8941]

@@Mapdec The SRAM chainrings are a little over double the price of DA chainrings. If they just separated the power meter from the chainrings I bet they could get the price of them down to to a comparable level as DA.

[@amazedat1771]

Not generation-defining. Just some mild re-working of ergonomics. If the last Sram red was V12, this is sort of V12.1

[@SichardRamuels]

It does sound like the braking might be "hydraulic disc braking 2.0".

[@amazedat1771]

@@SichardRamuels it does sound much less effort, but I didn't find the old levers difficult. Still DOT fluid and 2-peice calipers though.

[@Mapdec]

Yeah. That’s fair. It reminds me a bit of when Apple stopped at OSX and made small changes ever since. It’s a sign of a matured electronic market maybe

[@amazedat1771]

@@Mapdec it's an odd place to stop - Hope has had 1-piece road calipers since 2019. Rotor showed us a 13-speed groupset in 2019. Shimano showed us mineral oil brakes can be as good as DOT (better?). If I were SRAM I'd be innovating like crazy to get ahead of L-Twoo and Sensah, but insead i's alsmost as though they have long Covid. Perhaps remote work and the new factory made development difficult?

[@Mapdec]

@@amazedat1771 for sure. 13 speed I have tried have all been a disaster. Too sensitive to frame flex and bends, set up. Staying ahead of the copycat brands is going to depend more on durability, customer service etc. In today’s world of AI and rapid prototyping a Chinese brand will have this lever ripped off and in production in a few months. I think what sram are doing with this whole integration thing is what will keep them safe. The fact this all intervrates with Zipp bars and Hanmerhead is just the beginning of some deep rooted eco system to come.

[@ChinCycling]

Great video but comparing Dura Ace to SRAM Force caught me off guard, Dura Ace has had smoother arguably faster shifting and been lighter than SRAM Red for years but looks like that’s changed now

[@Mapdec]

Yeah. Price and weight puts Force and DA on more of a level peg than DA and Red really.

[@andorsn]

Isn’t Force D2 closer in weight to 105 Di2?

[@ChinCycling]

@@andorsn SRAM Force group set weights 2922 grams, 105 weights 2995 grams, Dura Ace weights 2493 grams, that’s almost 500 grams lighter, SRAM Force group set price is around $1500, 105 around $1000, Dura Ace has come down but still around $3k.

[@Mapdec]

@@andorsn hell no. Carbon cranks, one piece chain rings, etc. It can depend a lot on the configuration because you can have a much bigger cassette and power meters. Price per gram and feature for feature Force is more similar to DA. Rival sits in between ult and 105. Apex Axs is an arguably lower than 105 Di2 depending if a few choices made.

[@aintnobodygottime4dat]

What price!!!.......Nuts?!@?

[@Mapdec]

£500 more than 2019

[@WayneCouyon]

Mmm, let's see if they actually managed to deliver reliable and fast front shifting now. I have the new Force on my Look 765 Gravel RS, and it shifts so slow especially to the small ring, I could probably reach down and drop the chain down by hand faster. Innovation might happen here, but when it comes to reliable performance, Shimano still beats it.

[@Mapdec]

I think thats fair. In the presentation SRAM acknowledged that and have paid attention to it. Like I say in the vid, I think they have improved it to be on par with shimano now. The auto adjust helps too.

[@johndef5075]

My Srams 2×10 mtb front derailleur shifted smooth as butter. Dont know why they cant get the road right.

[@WayneCouyon]

@@johndef5075 yeah, I never had issues with their MTB stuff.

[@nicotte44]

where are my glasses ??? :)

[@chrismeyer9990]

Lost some weight, yey! And the new groupset is lighter, as well!

[@Mapdec]

🙏

[@racittaj]

no 177.5mm cranks?

[@Mapdec]

No.

[@racittaj]

@@Mapdec that is shame! We want 177.5!!

[@Ozak42]

The brake levers still audibly rattle. This is mental. Also, this groupset has only tried to fix problems of the last groupset, there is almost no real innovation. As for 12 being a magic number, it looks like the new Red XPLR is going to be 13 speeds.

[@Cycle.every.day.]

Once everyones eyes & brains adjust to these levers the old ones will look bulky.

[@SichardRamuels]

As soon as you unpacked the cassette and chainrings and revealed your lowest gear would be 35x30, I thought 😬. Ha!

[@Mapdec]

My legs still hurt

[@JFomo]

Micro USB? WTF!!! It's not a deal breaker but still, it's 2024.

[@Mapdec]

It’s just anoying. Like they didn’t care.

[@RobParkinVideo]

Sensible really to not invest in retooling the charger given where the bike industry is at, better than laying off staff!

[@petesjk]

@@RobParkinVideoI agree, maintaining compatibility with chargers makes sense, and there’s no need to use a 20w USB C power source.

[@jennibristol7720]

It’s nice, but even more expensive:( is there a rim brake version or has SRAM killed off AXS rim brake levers?

[@Mapdec]

Rim brake is dead to SRAM now.

[@jennibristol7720]

@@Mapdec :😢

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Still DOT fluid... hydroscopic and corrosive. Why not mineral???

[@GHinWI]

Why would they use oil when there’s a fluid specifically designed for brake applications and used around the world for that application??

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

@@GHinWI Ask BMW why mineral oil. Do you really not know??

[@michaelclements4664]

One clue that SRAM Red is designed for GC contenders, not amateurs, is that the front chainring sizes favor shifting speed over ratio range. Each combo is only a 13 tooth difference with ratios ranging from 1.39:1 to 1.30:1. That makes redundant gears and narrower total ratio. Most amateur riders (especially those over 50 like myself) prefer wider ratios. Shimano works seamlessly with 34-52 for an 18 tooth difference and 1.53:1. Combined with an 11-34 rear this gives a very wide total ratio of 4.7:1.

[@imrevadasz1086]

The cassette especially simply felt far too light in my hands to be true. Those cooler boxes are a bit weird though 😅.

[@MikeFroom]

Yep, too expensive for a lever enhancement that still uses Dot 5 fluid

[@GNX157]

The DOT 5 is the primary reason why I’ll never make a move to SRAM.

[@arthur1418]

@@GNX157 what's wrong with dot5 fluid?

[@xzcion]

It's brake specific fluid designed for use in cars and trucks, where it will see super high temps and lack of maintenance. It's also corrosive, absorbs water and air, and requires special waste disposal. Compared to mineral oil which is non toxic and easily substitutable for other oils. The argument is bicycle brakes don't need the specific advantages of dot fluid, so why use the more toxic option if you don't need to. The brakes I like the look of use dot fluid, so I use dot fluid now, clean with alcohol and take the waste to the waste disposal centre. When I used mineral oil I'd clean with alcohol, but could put the mineral oil down the sink.

[@arthur1418]

@@xzcion makes sense, thanks!

[@dmlopezleon]

No entiendo como un grupo nuevo para cambiar de platos hay que pulsar dos pulsadores a la vez, cuando shimano con su nuevo firmware un solo pulsador sirve para subir y bajar el plato, es decir , por ejemplo, una sola maneta puede servir para subir y bajar piñones y subir y bajar platos. El ajuste de las gomas de las manetas muy mal. En carretera me gusta mas shimano.

[@Mapdec]

Only on the new GRX for now.

[@Featinwe]

USB-C existing since 2014, common in ALL smartphones and powerbanks for about 5-6 years now - SRAM execs in 2024: so, we will save 0.01USD on microUSB! Utterly ridiculuos... it should be not recommended for this reason only...

[@DekuNEKO21]

Fire your cameraman

[@Mapdec]

He is giving himself a hard enough time.

[@NelankaPerera]

Blurry!!!

[@Mapdec]

Rushing 😞

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Innovation... like an oddball 30 mm crank axle, oversized for no reason that doesn't properly fit bottom brackets? Yeah we need more of that. I'll take a couple of slow chains and low-capacity batteries, while we're at it. Throw-in more odd sized rings and huge, bulbous hoods and I'll be innovated out for another 10 years.

[@Mapdec]

Nice. It will be interesting to see what Shimano picks up on and brings to the next DA. I suspect it will only be the lever design.

[@Sebishor20]

The Campagnolo pronunciation makes my ears hurt. It is Campañolo, same as El Niño.

[@valmorell]

New master cylinder position is better. So basically, SRAM got it wrong b4? Appalling...

[@Mapdec]

It’s some very good engineering to package a master cylinder where they have.

[@pipikikinos]

It s fast because you have to hurry up before you run out of batteries

[@markrskinner]

What's the fake reason?

[@Mapdec]

That’s is a few grams lighter

[@Onigure]

Wow, I didn't know there was this side of cycling. Hard pass. 😅

[@JamieTruth-d2q]

😂

[@Mapdec]

💋

[@BenSietze]

Worst looking top-end group money can buy…

[@Mapdec]

Have you seen Campagnolo’s organic blob design?

[@ickebins6948]

I would say, that people that really really need SRAM Red don't worry about the looks...

[@BenSietze]

@@ickebins6948 I think you’re right, and most of the people that really really need it may not actually have much of a say whether or not they get it..

[@BenSietze]

@@Mapdec The hoods/levers of the recent Campagnolo’s are not the prettiest either, that’s absolutely true..

[@BenSietze]

@@ickebins6948 that’s absolutely true. But the people that really really need it may actually not have too much to say whether or not they will get it.

[@molokofreak]

14:00 what an awfull decals decals, even crappy chinesse manufacturers make better

[@Mapdec]

Remember. This is the racing groupset. Logos and decals are important in racing. It’s the Force and Rival sets that should be more subtle.

[@JaiJai-by4tp]

I just dont like Sram ,its too industrial fir road ,the noise it makes shifting is horrible